Open 796: Haunted Village Game Over

[xofelf]

Oh hi, this started already, neat.

[xofelf]

Oh, so this is going to be a very talkative game from the start, alright. Sure.

Let me see if I can follow along. With how this setup works, if you're good at maths and all, you can kinda mechanically guess what sort of PRs town could have based on how many points were spent for the Undead? I will admit I am unfamiliar with the setup or how any of it works, so already starting a step or so behind there. Is there any sort of benefit to theorizing that, or is it more just a good place to start early game conversations? I can't remember the last time I played an Open so forgive me, my logic is rusty on ideal play.

[xofelf]

Oh, so this is going to be a very talkative game from the start, alright. Sure.

Sorry, games I'm in tend to have a lot of pages. I guess it's because people like talking to me so much?

So it's *your* fault, noted.

I probably don't mind, it's just been a hot minute since I've played not in a hydra.

[xofelf]

Oh, so this is going to be a very talkative game from the start, alright. Sure.

Let me see if I can follow along. With how this setup works, if you're good at maths and all, you can kinda mechanically guess what sort of PRs town could have based on how many points were spent for the Undead? I will admit I am unfamiliar with the setup or how any of it works, so already starting a step or so behind there. Is there any sort of benefit to theorizing that, or is it more just a good place to start early game conversations? I can't remember the last time I played an Open so forgive me, my logic is rusty on ideal play.

I have no idea why anyone town would want to do this.

What do you mean?

[xofelf]

So it's bad, got it. Just was trying to understand why it was a discussion in the first place. Thank you for explaining.

[xofelf]

Why are you so sure it won't?

[xofelf]

Why are you so sure it won't?

just ignore her

Fair sentiment, may just. But I'm genuinely curious why she thinks that. The explanation you and Murdercat gave seemed solid enough to me as to why it was a bad idea.

[xofelf]

Hollywood?

[xofelf]

Ah right, okay. Thank you.

I might be alone in thinking that meta is largely useless, especially if you have enough awareness in your own trends to purposefully use it to confuse people, but I am finding the comments on it so far interesting.

[xofelf]

Oh.. I never considered B before. Hmm. I suppose that is actually useful.

[xofelf]

Could just be dumb instead of scum. I don't underestimate people's abilities to just be bad.

I do think I need more time to have any sort of reads on anybody, but I do think I at least like where BM's head is at. Reminds me of a handful of other players that I've had good feelings about in the few games I've played this year.

Also hi Gamma <3

[xofelf]

If you're gonna vote me, you mind spelling my name right? Sorry, yesterday my computer was exploding and I hate typing via mobile. I get it, I tend to look like I'm barely contributing and only posting for the sake of it. That's kind of my thing though. I watch and I wait, I ask questions to see if the reactions to them feel a weird type of way or not, and I observe. That's just how I play, which does usually mean people tend to feel a type of way about that but y'all do you. Not a super readslist kind of person, not that great at mechanically solving. But sometimes I notice when people feel off from how they normally do. Yes I joined in 2008, but I play incredibly rarely. I did play a bunch of games this past year, but it had been a good two or three before that, and the one I played was an invitational. My luck is that I roll roles I dislike playing more often than I roll the ones that I find entertaining and fun. I'm not scum but I don't expect y'all to believe me anyways.

Thoughts I have as I've been reading but hadn't had a chance to share at all. PlusJOYED feels opportunistic, and like they'll go for whatever vote they can get enough traction on, and I'm always a real easy target. Tayl0r I don't feel so weird about but they didn't start off great. I still like BM, he feels reasonable. Isis I've played both a scum and town game with this past year, and I know she hates scum and gives off an air of indecision and stress when she's not town that I don't think I'm seeing here. Murdercat I'm getting some town vibes from, feels like someone who uses votes as reaction testing rather than questions or statements, which is fair. Noraa is a ball of exerberance but that's just her as a person, and I can't get any sort of read on her one way or another cuz the excitability is pretty NAI. egotisi I like, but I may just be fond cuz it's Datisi and George Bailey, not that they're doing anything particularly standout at the moment. Jewel Barons I want to see more from, but this feels like town!Gamma posting, what I expect to see from him. Random Canadian, who? No really, who, I have nothing about them and I'm sure they've posted to, but they register at all. Same goes for Exorcists, but them I have a slight favourbility towards. I may have to actually effort and iso for anything there. Cobrakai is fine? Pretty null though, but replacement vibes. Dunnstral sure is a man who exists. But not in a bad way, just a quieter way.

So the tl;dr of that is:
"You, keep talking":
Murdercat
BattleMage
egotisi
Jewel Barons
Isis

People who exist allegedly:
Dunnstral
Random Canadian
Exorcists
Cobrakai

Noraa:
Noraa

Much nose wrinkling in their direction:
Tayl0r
PlusJOYED

[xofelf]

PlusJOYED feels opportunistic, and like they'll go for whatever vote they can get enough traction on, and I'm always a real easy target

Do you think Plus would have know that?

No, I don't think it's meta-reasons or anything of the sort. But rather a downside to the way I think and play these games, I'm a really good and easy vote to push. It happens a lot, and I'm not exactly the best at defending why I do what I do and having that actually believed. So no, I think it's just out of everyone here currently, I'm not the worst target to try early on since statistically most people who are contributing like this, tend to get looked at as scum or at least not pro-town.

[xofelf]

Xofelf, I kind of agree you on the Plus read. He seems a little more calculated than my past experiences with him, which gives me some suspicion of them but much like you say about yourself, Plus is an easy target at times because of his play.

What do you think about his opening post in 35?

Is that more calculated? That just seems a bit "hold up let me get an RVS in here real quick, and also some thoughts real hurried that aren't gonna mean much, but are definitely here." It does ping weird, but I didn't think anything of it cuz it could mean anything really.

I guess I'm curious how you are telling apart someone who might legitimately think you're scum from someone who is being opportunistic Xofelf.

I have the feeling you're going to hate my answer tbh. I'm a guts player a lot, so like, I can't exactly fully tell you why it's different, I just know it feels different. Like there's a different tone or feel to someone who is scum doing stuff than someone who is just doing what they think is best in that moment. For me, scum tends to feel more hollow in what they're saying. It's not what they say, but how. Whether it's purposefully getting people to think in a certain way, or almost overcontributing. They give off a different feel of hiding something than anybody else does. I also don't tend to vote much, because I don't want to vote unless I'm at least 90% sure or we need to yeet someone or we lose.

[xofelf]

Hi sorry, had a busy few days in LSGland, ran out of spoons for posts. First priority as soon as I get out of bed and to a computer.

[xofelf]

Okay hi sorry, will be doing catch up cuz I remember that there were some things directly asked my way that I'll get back to. But the one I remember is I was asked a bit about why I felt what I did about Gamma. Most of the games I've played this year he's been in. And I don't think he's been scum so far? So I can't say I know what that looks like, but town Gamma often flakes a bit, and responds almost to every post with a running tally of this thoughts. Maybe he does that as scum too, but it's what he does. And his reasonings for his thoughts seem consistent with what I expect from him. That's... really it? Sometimes in his catch up thoughts posts, he's brought back stuff from pages ago that people forgot or didn't exactly put as much thought into, and I kind of enjoy that? He just also tends to have to do life shit and prod dodges a lot and has a good amount of pages to do catch up with. So he's acting exactly the way I expect him to. I don't know anything about NorwEE.

[xofelf]

Noraa, why do you think it's them?

I did notice as I was reading that you post an awful lot in a row, especially when you're particularly frustrated or annoyed. But I can't tell if this is just frustrated at not being listened to town, or caught scum. But would I be wrong in the assumption that you're a rather emotional player, in that your posts have a lot of that in them? not necessarily that you use them in your reasons.

[xofelf]

@Taylor: I did not intend to be rude what what I said before, and I am sorry for that. Rhyming isn't a good enough reason to say posts could be dumb or bad. I do think your posts since have been a lot better, and I think you were just finding your feet at the start. Any sort of weird feeling I had about you definitely went away the more you posted. I think we read some people differently cuz we have different vibes, but I do actually think that you're doing your best to convey what it is you think in a protown way.

Plus idk, this could be town? And just with a bad confusing start? I'm not sure.

[xofelf]

Yeah I don't care about your meta, I wanna know what you're thinking and why for *this* game. Why is that your scumteam list? Do *you* have meta reasons for thinking its them? Do you have reasons from this game for that?

[xofelf]

Darling, you post like crazy. I read your posts but which post has the answer to what I want to know is beyond me. So, I'm just asking if you wouldn't mind, just a direct answer in one place in response. Thank you <3

[xofelf]

Yes, I agree. Sometimes defensiveness is just instictual, not scummy. That's why I'm trying to figure out which this is. But also, if there are more solid reasons that I'm missing to look at those people in her list, I'm curious what she thinks. Cuz I do wanna look at iso's and see if I can see what she's seeing.
Pedit: Okay, thank you. You may have a good point re: Plus.
I think this is what Isis does from what I remember of her game. I don't know if this is scum!Isis, just doesn't feel it. But I could be very wrong and biased as Isis is a friend.

[xofelf]

Xof explanations are throughout his ISO.

If you mean me, pronoun is they/them. It's a recent change so not the biggest deal, but he was never the correct choice before either

[xofelf]

@xof I was talking about plus joyeds scumread on you being justified throughout his ISO- sorry if it wasn’t clear!

Oh, that's okay! Didn't catch that, there were a lot of posts around it where I couldn't quite follow your train of thought, but I figured just in case it was a slip I should clear that up.

I wasn't aware xof's pronouns changed, I'll do my best to remember but I can't guarantee anything

-GAMMA

Why is it always the mods/pseudo-mods who I end up with this issue on now

It's okay, I appreciate the thought anyways <3

[xofelf]

I just realized that I forgot Exorcists was even in this game when I was looking over people before >.< But after doing an ISO of them, I really like their posting. They feel really solid. I think I may have confused their posting with Canadians while I was reading before, oops.

In general I'm finding hard to really find anybody who doesn't have solid reasons for their posting so far. It all feels like people do have reasons for pushing who they're pushing right now. I know that's not really helpful, but it's kinda where I'm at.

[xofelf]

I think Narwhal is Random Canadian?

[xofelf]

Catching up, I really like Infinity's entrance so far, very good contributions.

Murdercat asked me uh about BM I think it was? I have no issues with BMs posting. He feels internally consistent from my perspective.

Noraa is pinging me something terrible, like.. it might just be instinct on my part, but when somebody has a quadruple post where a lot of it is dripping in frustration and annoyance about anybody even considering looking at their slot as a viable target for anything, I get bad vibes. It doesn't feel purely defensive anymore. It just feels like noise. Like you have Murdercat who is posting a lot, but it genuinely feels like he's trying to get people to engage, while with Noraa it feels like she's trying to invoke a specific emotional response. Whether it's to get people to feel bad for considering her as a target, or what, I can't quite tell. But it feels like negative utility here and I don't like it.

I don't like it enough that,

Vote: Noraa

Maybe you aren't scum, but your approach feels like you're tossing enough noise into the game to inflate it where actually solving anything and tracking who has said or done what is harder and I'm not really here for that.

[xofelf]

If I had two votes I'd vote Noraa because her posting is making me nauseous again. Mis-stating whether her main points of interest started on her initiative or someone else's seems like the scum-indicative type of error (our earliest interactions in the game started with her saying she wanted to OMGUS me, so..).

Please get out of my head. ._.

[xofelf]

Nah Cat, coming to the thread cuz I actually have effort I can be active instead of passive on MS things rn. I post when I got the brain to articulate things.

If people wanna push on egotisi, that's their business. I have absolutely no read on the slot whatsoever. They're not contributing anything one way or another, but at least it's not actively bad. I know I haven't been doing all that much either, but I'm trying as best I can.

[xofelf]

Nah Cat, coming to the thread cuz I actually have effort I can be active instead of passive on MS things rn. I post when I got the brain to articulate things.

If people wanna push on egotisi, that's their business. I have absolutely no read on the slot whatsoever. They're not contributing anything one way or another, but at least it's not actively bad. I know I haven't been doing all that much either, but I'm trying as best I can.

It's just feels suss to have you come in and vote a big wagon and dip tbh. Like you don't really question people or anything? Just feels kinda passive

Yeah no, I get that. Sorry, this is just.. kinda how I do. I read and pop in when I got stuff to articulate. By passive I mean, just reading and posting nothing. I'm well aware that often just trying to play as best I can looks hella sus, I'm kinda used to being viewed that way no matter what I do or why, and usually due to minor phrasing pinging people in ways I don't intend.

It is a fair comment about voting a big wagon, can't argue that, but I meant what I said about why I am voting Noraa. Being such a big wagon though, with a lot of pressure, I'd kinda expect different reactions from frustrated town I guess? Idk. The more votes she's gotten, the more her reactions don't sit right to me. I don't know what else to tell you man.

[xofelf]

Yeah no, I get that. Sorry, this is just.. kinda how I do. I read and pop in when I got stuff to articulate. By passive I mean, just reading and posting nothing. I'm well aware that often just trying to play as best I can looks hella sus, I'm kinda used to being viewed that way no matter what I do or why, and usually due to minor phrasing pinging people in ways I don't intend.

It is a fair comment about voting a big wagon, can't argue that, but I meant what I said about why I am voting Noraa. Being such a big wagon though, with a lot of pressure, I'd kinda expect different reactions from frustrated town I guess? Idk. The more votes she's gotten, the more her reactions don't sit right to me. I don't know what else to tell you man.

Yeah I mean I'm not mad about it, I just want to town read you if you are town

I'm trying my best! I swear I'm not sus, it's just my face

[xofelf]

If by dip you mean I went and did other things and went to bed, yeah def did that Cat. I like my vote where it is. Nothing Noraa has really said in response has really made me think she's not a good vote here. And arguments I've seen from other people to the contrary I feel like I've seen from scum before, so like *hard shrugs*. I don't really have much else to say there, unless you're saying you want me to post things that aren't actually contributing to the conversation, I can do that. But I've always thought that posting when you have actual relevant thought and not inflating thread with words for the sake of posting was the way to go.

Idk what to tell you. I may be quacking like a duck and walking like a duck, but I swear I'm a goose.

[xofelf]

Xof who are the other two scum?

Oh I have no idea. That's not how I look at things. Not on day 1 with no flip information. I really only tend to notice those connections with people AFTER there's actual solid information we have. Before it can mean anything. Town and scum interactions with people can like identical. And considering how often it's smart for scum to distance or purposefully buddy up to somebody who is town in order to cast suspicion on them if they leave, there's too much noise to sort out for me, so I uh don't do it that way? I'm more of an individualist anyways. Look, I'm all about information, and until I have anything actually concrete, I can't really do anything. Just.. how I work.

[xofelf]

Look, if yeeting me gives you more information on solving all these other pushes on me and through out, by all means go for it. We won't be losing anything important in the process. I'm not a PR, nor am I scum, so if that makes it easier to actually vote out the people who ARE, go for it. I'm gonna flip green, but not a green that it's gamelosing when I do.

I don't really like how little Isis is contributing here. I know she's incredibly precise in all that she says ever, but I feel like she normally says more.

[xofelf]

Eh, sorry. I roll VT an obnoxious amount of the time, and I don't typically have fun playing it, it is a role I hate. I need information I can give or have to actually feel like I'm accomplishing anything, otherwise I feel like I'm just biding time til I die. I'm actually trying to do something more here, but I don't think I am managing that so much.

But also yes, Noraa needs to claim at this point.

[xofelf]

I had a cult spotter in a previous game which was just this side of not VT, and that was actually fun cuz I at least had information to do something with. I kinda.. need direction and concrete something to work with or I don't exactly know where to go or where to really start, and too many options and variables makes for not fun for xoffies. BUT I'm trying here.

BM does kind of have a point, but idk, both he and Taylor feel a little bulldog grabbing a hold on things.

[xofelf]

Haha, I'm largely Mish Mash and Large Socials. I only venture out here if I'm invited these days. I replaced out of Alisae v Pine but I had rolled VT in that game. This is the only game I've finished in years Mainstream Mafia II where I rolled the cult spotter. I've hydra'd in Calendar Mafia and On the Flying Scumsman. The latter didn't finish. I think the last game I played before AvP was a Survivormeet Invitational, and that had a mod error where the game had to be scrapped, but I did roll scum there. Before either of those were also hydra games. On my own the last game I played myself was probably in 2010 maybe? I honestly don't remember.

[xofelf]

Ah no wait, I was in Inuyasha Mafia. I rolled... a JOAT I think? Idk, it was still a good 5 or more years ago.

P-edit: You're getting the reads that I have as I have them, Cat. You just don't tend to like that they're not big confident lists. That's not I do. If things look funky, I say so, that's what I do. I am interested, but I need more information to give you the kind of reads and feelings you're looking for.

[xofelf]

P-edit: You're getting the reads that I have as I have them, Cat. You just don't tend to like that they're not big confident lists. That's not I do. If things look funky, I say so, that's what I do. I am interested, but I need more information to give you the kind of reads and feelings you're looking for.

I don't even need a big list, but I think I never got a response to asking you for you top three SRs? You gave one and I asked for two more. The problem is just that I literally can't sort you without info. So yeah you could do this as town but you could also do it as scum and just coast and there's no way to tell it apart

I get that. Unfortunately I don't have an answer for you. Nobody else is pinging me in a way I feel they're at bare minimum negative town utility. There are people that I don't feel great about but not enough I'm scumreading them for it. And I did give those before, which was Plus and Taylor read really funny to me, but they've also been advocates for my death so I'm not super sure if that's what my feeling is coming from or if they're just bad on their own. When egotisi wasn't here, they were null as hell, and I don't hate what they're posting now. Isis not being here either also worries me. But none of those feelings are what I'd call scumreads, they're just feelings and reactions which may be nothing. So what you keep asking me for and what I can give you don't match up.

But also, UNVOTE: . I can buy it.

[xofelf]

I don't want ego to flip cuz that's not going to give any information. Honestly, Plus or Taylor give a fair bit of information really. Taylor flip kinda gives a read on you, BM, but also there's a lot of interactions people have had with both slots so it's actually information that can do a fair bit of stuff. Noraa was another that would help, but I'm inclined to leave her be for now.

Also, I do have a bunch of my game stats on my wikipage, it's just ridiculously out of date.

[xofelf]

I don't want ego to flip cuz that's not going to give any information.

Don't agree, I feel like it gives us a lot of info in terms of wagon analysis

You think? I guess if you look at timing and pace of it. But I more meant for me anyways, what gives information *I* can do stuff with. It's people who have had interaction with other players positive OR negative, that I can usually do something with after a flip.

[xofelf]

Oh uh, that's awkward. I only just noticed day opened.

[xofelf]

._. that's a lot of green, I don't like that one bit.

[xofelf]

I'm feeling less good about Isis than I was before. Are we sure Exorcists were clearing Dunn? But of the rest, Gamma feels null which might just be an indication that he's problematic. I think it's just the way you play that makes me feel all sus Cat, but I don't think you're actually bad at all, you just ruffle my feathers something fierce.

[xofelf]

hmmm
i think this is an attempt to draw out a CC sorry isis

I agree with this.

I think it's infinity and xofelf, but I don't like the way

MURDERCAT

is playing either

But weren't you just saying the other day that I wasn't one of your scumreads at all miss, and you believed what I was saying as I was saying it?

[xofelf]

Is that how you always do it? The average shifts so you can support shifting reads that aren't due to content or actions?

[xofelf]

I'm feeling less good about Isis than I was before. Are we sure Exorcists were clearing Dunn? But of the rest, Gamma feels null which might just be an indication that he's problematic. I think it's just the way you play that makes me feel all sus Cat, but I don't think you're actually bad at all, you just ruffle my feathers something fierce.

I recall you TRing me D1, what changed?

You pointed out that you were scum in one of the games we played so I don't feel as confident now as I did Day 1 that how you've been interacting is how you play as town. But you're also just... pretty null in general in a way that could mean something. It's not a strong read, none of mine typically are.

[xofelf]

Hi sorry, had results for a Mish Mash game to go attend.

If Isis is telling the truth and has been this whole time, are we still in a good enough place that yeeting her doesn't hurt us? Is there anything we can do during night which doesn't need her? I think a counterclaim to her is bad, I also think mathematically her claim could just as easily be scum as it could be town. But I also don't disagree with Infinity, Isis has felt really off for a while here. I just really don't know. I don't know that scum!Isis does AtE quite like this, it feels genuine, but I'm not sure what else is good for us to do. And I think we also need to hear from Dunn still.

[xofelf]

I mean, I don't hurt anything probably? I'm just VT. We wouldn't be losing the powers we have left, right? Like in all seriousness, if we need a target that isn't going to hurt what we have left, I'm honestly super down if that helps y'all sort. But like, it does mean we haven't actually touched scum at all and I'd rather that actually be what we do here.

[xofelf]

Dunn, why do you think Plus is lying? Isis I get, but why Plus?

[xofelf]

I feel you on that. Sometimes I just need things explained to me like I'm five, I'm sorry. Also, what benefit is there even in having a fast day? Can we like... slow our roll a little here?

[xofelf]

Isis's claim fits the math, right? And Dunn's makes things extra weird. And I'm curious what he means about the team being one he wouldn't pick. Like to me that doesn't clear him of shit really. It *is* weird, but with all the Witchhunter's we've had revealed wouldn't their choices be to try to counter those? I'll admit trying to figure out how roles fit together is not something I'm good at, but something here feels super fucking weird, and I'm not sure what that is.

[xofelf]

No, you're not wrong on that Infinity, that would be a very ridiculous play from scum, and I don't think Dunn is that kind of weird as a player. What I mean is more, okay if that is what's up, then what does that mean exactly?

And Cat, I'm asking because even though I've read the wikipage like 5 times, I keep having to reread it because I keep not parsing why things work how they do. Not that I think it's impossible or anything like that, more hi, I'm dumb.

[xofelf]

I don't have much brainpower to sort through much more tonight either, and I'd very much like there to be time rather than a fast flip.

[xofelf]

Oh hey, we won. Good job team.

[xofelf]

Haha that's totally okay. Kinda used to it. I signed up to play in the first place cuz Isis asked me to. So her being scum and her interactions with me make a ton of sense. I just tend to only check in so often and post only so often, and I get that for most people that's their scumgame.

[xofelf]

I had fun making it seem like xof and I might be aligned

See, that's what tipped me off that you were sus as hell. There's "I invited this person cuz I wanna play *with* them" and "I'mma make them look like they're on my side super hard". It made me laugh a lot though. We agreed to this game because maybe I wouldn't roll a role I despise, and nope, as I told you would happen, I rolled VT. I've been laughing about it the whole game. And I did have fun, especially that last day. I just got busy and couldn't be more into it.