Open 813: Isises Vs TBones (Game OVER)

[tris]

I've put basically zero thought into this but is there any value in trying to claim center square? Otherwise, is it better to elim in the corners or the sides?

VOTE: No lim

Because corner and also because your name looks like we're no eliminating which is annoying.

oh no...

[tris]

VOTE: humaneatingmonkey

probably scum

voting the ic. this obviously makes you scum.

VOTE: savethedragons

[tris]

i wonder if there is actually some value to reflogaing the center square despite being ic. probably not

[tris]

VOTE: dwlee99 why are we voting for dwlee?

[tris]

on day 2, we can force what the next couple kills and reflogas will be

[tris]

no idea

[tris]

not elim spaces that are scummy

what??

[tris]

I think I figured this out.
So we want to find the scummiest people in the center and then lim the people next to them.

I think we should eliminate the scummiest person from the corners

good idea VOTE: dwlee99

[tris]

ooo! i have my banner now!

[tris]

i'm reafirming it

[tris]

you are scum

[tris]

r-1

[tris]

lukewarm is obviously dwlee's partner

[tris]

you tried to distance but realized that your partner could die. so you quickly pivoted

[tris]

explain it to me

[tris]

good idea, let's mass claim, i'm vanilla townie

[tris]

i agree with that too

[tris]

Although, lukewarm's response to being called my partner is mighty funny. Kinda reads as caught for wrong reasons.

let's do this actually VOTE: luke

[tris]

there's no way to force a scum loss other than reflogaing them

[tris]

or i guess if a square they need to get has a scum in it

[tris]

But I don't think we can stop this from happening unless we kill both scum.
So

x prevents o from winning by going opposite to where o just went

that means o has to then go to one of the corners in a way that prevents x from winning.

We prevent this scum are in autoloss

I am not following your scenario that forces a scum auto lose.

Because, from my understanding, the scum team should be able to force out a tie in the tic-tac-toe board Unless one of the slots they need happens to have one of the scum.

So imo, Day 1 we should focus on eliming a corner, which I would prefer to be one of the other corners, but I my slot is an ok choice.

Then, focus on scum hunting more then pic-tac-toe strategy, unless the scum make a bad tic-tac-toe move

i think we should stop focusing tick tack tow for a bit.
"focus on eliming a corner" is meaningless. you still have to figure out what corner is best chance of scum, and i don't think we should limit ourselves like that if someone is scummy enough.
what are your thoughts on people's scumminess?

[tris]

oh and r-1 also.

[tris]

5. Mafia players may target themselves for nightkills.

Tris did you read this?

i missed that as well actually

[tris]

Out of the corners Dwelee should be town.

why do you say this?

Luke volunteered for the lim and I know I'm town.

as if volunteering for the lim guarantees that you'll be refloga'd. it's not beyond mafia to do such a thing.

[tris]

generally, things like self votes and willingness to be eliminated are meaningless gestures

[tris]

Thoughts on non-corners?

Because

We scumhunt in vulture std tris and stygian.

oh yeah. that's weird how he said we should scum hunt the edges, and then just talks about the corners?

[tris]

i dunno, i had the same thought because i always thought middle was the best square, to keep it out of scum hands we would have to lim...er...refloga you d1. but i don't know how to solve tic tac toe. i'm probably just going to scumhunt.

then you are also probably scum i guess thanks for saying

i'm the third scum!

i wonder if there is actually some value to reflogaing the center square despite being ic. probably not

[tris]

this game is full of scum

lockscum

what do you mean by this?

in what way is our innocent child scum?

[tris]

@jingle, the votes arnt linking right

[tris]

Children are never innocent.

Would love T3 to explain Dwlee gut read. Found Dw’s entrance awkward and over-explanatory. Would help if T3 could verbalize more.

More tomorrow.

i would like that too. if anything, dwlee looks town to me.

[tris]

no, it's a small townread. why would it be a slip?

[tris]

i liked your observation on luke in 62

[tris]

i don't do wallposts, but could you vote for luke anyway?

[tris]

oh! hahaha. i forgot that you were had said you townread dwlee. i thought when vulture wrote 109, that you were had scumread him

[tris]

Children are never innocent.

Would love T3 to explain Dwlee gut read. Found Dw’s entrance awkward and over-explanatory. Would help if T3 could verbalize more.

More tomorrow.

i would like that too. if anything, dwlee looks town to me.

Is this a slip that you know I'm town?

this makes more sense now

[tris]

so, actually, i want vulture to explain the scumread more

[tris]

good night i am asleep

[tris]

VOTE: no lim

what'ss up

[tris]

this game is full of scum

lockscum

what do you mean by this?

in what way is our innocent child scum?

google "definition of joke"

ok, just wanted to see if you meant something else by it.

[tris]

me stating i have a townread on someone is infinitely more value to the gamestate than focusing on a tic tac toe board that mainly controlled by scum regardless.

[tris]

i dont think save the dragons is scum though. this reeks of a clash of viewpoints.

[tris]

it's not that likely that we win through tick tack toe anyway. i'm doubtful that reflogaing the corners brings that much more value than the edges.

[tris]

we dont lose to the board state if we take the edges either.

[tris]

or rather, there's possibility of losing to the board with either option. there's always going to be some point where we'll be forced to make a particular refloga

[tris]

ok, VOTE: no lim

[tris]

UNVOTE: that was fun.

[tris]

VOTE: luke

[tris]

or rather, there's possibility of losing to the board with either option. there's always going to be some point where we'll be forced to make a particular refloga

If we take a corner today, it becomes almost impossible for the scum team to win via the tic-tac-toe rules. If we take a side, then they keep that ability.

this is just not true. no matter where we refloga, if scum takes the center, their night 2 kill will force the day 3 refloga. that night 2 kill can be forced by our day 2 refloga, but that's true with taking an edge or taking a corner.

[tris]

both corners and edges lead to a lot of forced moves on either side in many scenarios.

[tris]

but anyway, i said focus on scumhunting didn't i!! i'm still voting luke because i dont trust him

[tris]

If we cannot come to a consensus on the corners by the end of the day, I am willing to volunteer to be the Day 1 elimination to make it happen anyways. Honestly, I am having a harder time then normal getting into this game, so I might not be the worst miselim in the corners anyways.

i'm wary about getting suckered in, but this feels genuine to me

like, this is really easy to say. words dont mean a thing unless you actually hammer yourself.

[tris]

oh.

well, the read wasn't very strong, so i'll just let the replacement do whatever

VOTE: t3

[tris]

talk to me about no lim (i say to t3)

[tris]

i'd like to hear about that std scum read when you come back. my gut's saying the opposite. something about the fight with no lim seemed tvt to me. i know you said it was gut, but if you can develop it a little more, i'd like to hear.

[tris]

lol?

[tris]

i think dwlee is town for the way he immediately stated that no lim was town for the hammer which makes more awkward the possibility of getting an easy refloga on the player who just quickhammered town.

[tris]

of course that only applies if no lim is not their partner

[tris]

Okay here's the deal. We are actually possibly in ELO. Reason being, if we eliminate incorrectly and scum can form a 3 in a row that hits two town, we lose. So now that I say this I'm unvoting UNVOTE:

oh fuck. i was thinking about how reflogas have the potential to be insta-losses, but i didn't make the leap to that meaning we should be careful with our votes. duh

[tris]

Oh also there are 3 different ways that scum can force an elimination tomorrow and by the fact that only 2 people are evil that means they can force a town elim tomorrow.

not if we force them first!

[tris]

every refloga here is possibly an immediate loss

[tris]

this set up seems a bit scumsided to me

[tris]

so, i definitely don't want to get dwlee, vulture, me, or no lim because all of those would lead to me or dwlee (or both) dying

[tris]

altho the other results alow scum to choose who they want to kill. hmmmm

[tris]

i wish we had gotten more out of day 1 :/

[tris]

i can[t even vote someone. this sucks

[tris]

HURT: vulture i'd v much like to here your thoughts on dwlee expanded

[tris]

do you still think vulture is evil

what about you? do you still think no lim is evil?

[tris]

forget about the corners tho.

[tris]

I've put basically zero thought into this but is there any value in trying to claim center square? Otherwise, is it better to elim in the corners or the sides?

VOTE: No lim

Because corner and also because your name looks like we're no eliminating which is annoying.

My Dwlee read was very surface-level early game stuff, mostly that it's a post that is like one part "this is strategic" which is serious even if it's earlygame/RVS, and then with a secondary reason tacked on at the end that isn't as serious. Felt self-conscious about what was being said. That's about it.

that makes sense.

[tris]

More likely to be scum I think if STD is town for "this reeks of perspective clash" post she made.

Clarify: it's probably STD and one of Dwlee/tris, first one doesn't feel interchangeable.

this confuses me. if i'm likely to be scum if std is town, why are you pairing me up with him?

[tris]

i mean i still like how the other corners approached the game much better than no lim did and my interaction with i believe just koba didn't help their case in my pov

but y'all have got me scared to even move now i didn't and honestly still don't realize how we're at ELO

forget about the corners tho.

considering that there are more options than just the corners, how does no lim stack up? what are your thoughts on the edge people?

[tris]

Okay, so thread has been dead for 5 hours so I'm back.

This is a question for everyone: if you had to pick three people that you believe there is at least one scum in, who would you pick?

uhm.

std/almost/no lim. i feel like there's gotta be at least one scum in there

[tris]

im gonna be with my mom for a bit . bye

[tris]

every refloga here is possibly an immediate loss

Nope. Let's say we do Dwlee. Now regardless of his alignment they need to shoot Vulture.
If we do me, they can pick their kill between all players on the board.
I we do N_M, they have to shoot you (tris), and so on.
Do you want me to do the math for the other 4? Like, do Vulture and they have to shoot Dwlee (if Town).
Do you and they have to shoot N_M (if Town).
Doing STD/stygian is a bad idea as it forces no kills. (similar to my own, but I shouldn't be the one saying this in this situation.. y'know)

if we do dwlee and they then have to shoot vulture, then we have to refloga stygian next, and if none of those three people are town, we lose. everything else has possibilities like this as well.

[tris]

is almost50 doing a bit??

[tris]

there's no way he doesn't actually realize that people are talking about the player no lim.

[tris]

also I 100% quickhammered t3 because lol NM is in this hydra and i can just say it was him :3 and also because he had a shitty view on the game by scumreading us for no reason. (essentially im leaning into the NM gimmick here)

i was pretty sure that slot was flipping town but since yall were so focused on flipping corners if we didnt quickhammer it was going to be us next.

and now yall wanna go back to corners?

just fucking scumhunt.

i... don't know what to think about this. quickhammering a townread is so incredibly anti-town, but like why does mafia admit to this? as you say, you had the cover of not_mafia.

why ARE you admitting it? doesn't that defeat the purpose of leaning into the not_mafia gimic?

also, who's saying that we need to go back to corners?

[tris]

Okay, so thread has been dead for 5 hours so I'm back.

This is a question for everyone: if you had to pick three people that you believe there is at least one scum in, who would you pick?

Dwlee/STD/Vulture I guess?

Almost50 could be there but w/e you asked for 3

tris/nolim town

reasons? especially about dwlee

[tris]

I've put basically zero thought into this but is there any value in trying to claim center square? Otherwise, is it better to elim in the corners or the sides?

VOTE: No lim

Because corner and also because your name looks like we're no eliminating which is annoying.

My Dwlee read was very surface-level early game stuff, mostly that it's a post that is like one part "this is strategic" which is serious even if it's earlygame/RVS, and then with a secondary reason tacked on at the end that isn't as serious. Felt self-conscious about what was being said. That's about it.

this is the only justification in the whole game that anyone has given for a dwlee scumread. (i'm not counting almost's nonsense) yet so many people seem to scumread him.

[tris]

i'm actually getting suspicious of no lim now. maybe a no lim refloga is the best here. cause std could also be scum.

[tris]

but maybe not together hmmm

[tris]

i think scum avoids bussing here because they have a good chance of getting a win immediately

[tris]

oh also, be careful with your votes, no lim. a single vote is fine, but the moment there's two, mafia might just swoop in and win

[tris]

i think scum avoids bussing here because they have a good chance of getting a win immediately

actually, this might not be true because as long as they avoid an instant lose situation, the worst that can happen for them is to end up in 3p rlo.

[tris]

{dwlee, vulture, stygian}
{dwlee, vulture, no lim}
{tris, no lim, std}
{tris, no lim, dwlee}

are the possible groups of eliminations we can force.

or we can individually hit one of std, almost, or stygian allowing mafia more freedom in how to proceed and losing if we're wrong.

[tris]

ok i thought it would be funny to quickhammer and pretend im NM but now its like oops my actions had bad consequences.

bc i was townreading T3 LOL

hmmm

[tris]

still have no idea why people scum read dwlee

[tris]

i guess it could be stygian

[tris]

but like vulture and dwlee both look kinda town ...

[tris]

I think we randed the world's shittiest board.

so true

[tris]

too tired right now. good night

[tris]

Almost50, voting "no lim" is voting for the player No Lim, which is the NM + DKK hydra. Now that you realize that (which I'm shocked you hadn't already?) what do you think of the game state?

Literally back to square one, I have no idea who's doing what and why, but I still think the hydra looks bad here. I would have suspected the one who put T3 @E-1; except that was the IC.. so I don't really know what this town is doing.

But the good news is -since I really am lost- I am going to play the mechanically optimum move, which is to lim in the bottom line or the first column still. Feel free to oppose or negate that, but please first consider every possible scenario.. like.. if we end up yeeting me.. scum can shoot you/the hydra forcing a yeet on the other, shoot STD/tris forcing a yeet on the other, shoot or shoot Vulture/Stygian forcing a yeet on the other, and since there are only 2 scums then at least one of these 3 pairs is Town/Town (it could b 3 of them), so if I am Town (and I am, but you don't know that if you are Town) is a game ending move (5:2 now >> miss-yeet + NK + "forced" miss-yeet = 2:2 = Scum win).

Similarly, yeeting in STD/Stygian gives Scum the choice to shoot in you/the Hydra, the "other" pair of STD/tris & Vulture/Stygian (if either pair is T/T) or shoot the other person in the pair of the yeeted player (if each pair of STD/tris & Vulture/Stygin contains one scum) and hope that we miss-yeet tomorrow still.

Suffice it to say, if we want to FORCE the scum's hand we need to yeet in you/Vulture/tris/the hydra. if we miss-yeet we either force then to shoot themselves of we -at least- keep that line from being all occupied by Isis and then we take our chance in E-Lo still tomorrow. We force them rather than they force us.

I'll repeat: Either we do as I say or -if we miss-yeet- it's an auto loss for Town.

we've been over all of that many times already.

[tris]

oh lol

[tris]

why am i suddenly scum in your eyes?

[tris]

(look who said she'd be going to sleep)

[tris]

My preliminary solve (and probably what ny final solve will be) is Tris/Stygian (ISOing Stygian he pushed for T3 from the get go, and benefitted from it as evident)

tris pushed for SWlee 9pretending not to by asking why we are voting him when she voted him in the same post) which would have put her in the same position Stygian is in right now)

VOTE: tris

that was rvs...

[tris]

didn't you push me for bullshit reasons like this when you were scum before?

[tris]

eh nvm. i'm misremembering that game a bit

[tris]

ok actually it was the slot you replaced into in that game.

[tris]

however, i do find that often when people scumread me for my rvs shenanigans, they often end up scum. it really is a shame i can't push you.

[tris]

if you want to get stygian you should be voting dwlee !!!!

[tris]

if you're wrong here we're skrewed

[tris]

pls just unvote

[tris]

however, i do find that often when people scumread me for my rvs shenanigans, they often end up scum. it really is a shame i can't push you.

Normal games have normal rules. This game isn't a Normal. Your RVS vote can make a difference, and the size of the game coupled with the special mechanics make it even more effective that -say- a Newbie game

i always mess around in rvs

[tris]

you gain nothing by doing this

[tris]

voting dwlee has the same result but with the scum not being able to decide who dies

[tris]

and what if vulture is scum?

[tris]

you gain nothing by doing this

You're doing it again.. seesawing your scum p. YOU ARE SCUM WITH STYGIAN. Thank you very much.

i dont know what you mean by seesawing

[tris]

LOOK. voting dwlee ALSO leads to stygian's death

[tris]

even in the best case where stygian is scum, the remaining mafia gets to force our next vote

[tris]

NO THEY CAN KILL SOMEPONE IN A WAYS THAT FORCES US TO KILL WHO THEY WANT US TO

[tris]

you're gonna be alive at the end at the end anyway no matter whar

[tris]

even if styugian is scum, if mafia kills dwlee for exaple, WE HAVE TO KILL NO LIM TO STOP THEMFROM WINNING ON BOARD

[tris]

that of course is if they're both town, but you seemt o believe that that's the case

[tris]

whatever, i don't think i can convince you of anything.

[tris]

you being so obtuse

[tris]

hopefuly you or stygian (or no lim) are indeed scum

[tris]

i think there's a good chance of one of those being true

[tris]

actually this probably is fine

[tris]

maybe vulture and dwlee are scum buddies and we lose, but eh

[tris]

btw, this is the game i was referring to. vex/korina was the slot you replaced into who had the bad scumread on me.

[tris]

VOTE: stygian

[tris]

:)

[tris]

who is that?

[tris]

this setup definitely seems scumsided to me

[tris]

victory for Isis!!

[tris]

pandora can now cover the earth

[tris]

you misunderstand; std is my partner

[tris]

i have no redactions to make

[tris]

Isisone and T-B

[tris]

my cat lena is also on isis's side