Open 834: Trust Fall - Game Over

[Wisdom]

So how do you get townreads in this game

[Wisdom]

so should i make mine similar too

[Wisdom]

If I trust scum will they just quicktrust me and exit

[Wisdom]

Okay, so trust thingy cannot be used as a thing to stir up content or pressure

Do you guys wanna use pseudovotes or something

[Wisdom]

Dunno feels a bit harder to get reads without some form of pressure

For example my favorite way of reading is to deathtunnel which now I can't do

[Wisdom]

kay

Tammy is scum, never changing my mind

[Wisdom]

it's the scum's job to break into that

You mean like you're trying to do with that verbose explanation?

[Wisdom]

Also this is a tricky in another way

Do I wanna townread someone and exit with them or stay and catch scum

[Wisdom]

'the worst' initial scumping for claiming to not know the rules on page 3, when they had been referenced a couple times already by that point - potentially tricking someone into an early OMGUS trust thing. and also repeated claims Enchant is town, with no reason given.

ew

[Wisdom]

i'd be lowkey disappointed if the scum team was just infinity+klick

thats who I am also leaning towards as of this post

Though cookie is a contender too

[Wisdom]

I lean towards Tammy's argument against Wisdom-town being scum-motivated

disagree

[Wisdom]

Finished reading

I'd easily trust duck, Pooky, Tammy or Prism right now

Mafmen could be scum

Cookie pings me but it could be newbness

Infinity and Klick are scummy

[Wisdom]

Oh I forgot Enchant completely

Townlean but not at the level of the others, wouldnt trust right now

[Wisdom]

Cookie pings me but it could be newbness

actually strike this

cookie is almost certainly an alt

[Wisdom]

Its not like I can come at you

Gimme my vote and Ill get you lim'd

[Wisdom]

eh, gut. I dont see any of them being scum based on what ive read

[Wisdom]

They didnt post anything that made me think theyre town and in Klick's case I dislike the take on Tammy

[Wisdom]

Vote counts as Trust here as i remember.

I think I just accidentally cleared wisdom while goofing around go me

yeah wisdom probably town

Like this is a more likely scum reaction to tw's thing than Tammy's
Town should be questioning it and making sure I am not considered conftown for ever because they should be scared of my scum game

[Wisdom]

For the record I was on phone and was answering to a previous post and didn't even see the vote until tw had unvoted, so all discussion about clearing me is wrong (:

[Wisdom]

i do think youre being a bit hard on klick with that tho
i think its a perfectly fair assumption to make that scum!tammy doesnt like town!you when coming into this game blind

No because like I said I think that indicates Town Tammy while Klick is trying to spin it into the opposite

[Wisdom]

like pooky said scum has no reason to discredit other people in this type of gamemode

I dont agree with that, scum do want townies to be scumread because theyll just get poe'd out otherwise
Plus if they want to be townread they need to do town things, and trying to catch scum is one of them
So Klick "scumreading" Tammy achieves both attempting to lower Tammy's towncred and making Klick look like he's scumhunting

[Wisdom]

Then how do I have a poe of four without nks and lims

[Wisdom]

So basically youre discrediting my reads and dodging the point, got it

[Wisdom]

Like the point is that Klick has scum motivation to make that push, whether there are lims and nks in the game or not

The rest is irrelevant

[Wisdom]

I outlined what the scum motivation is and you said nothing about it, instead you argued generics about whether the game has lims or not

so yeah

[Wisdom]

I think fairly few scum players approach this game in a way that's like tremendously different from how they approach a normal scumgame

sorry if this doesn't assume much of the random person

Agreed, Id def play this like a normal scumgame in that Id try and emulate how town-me would see it

[Wisdom]

You double-brainfarted, the discredit thing is about Klick's actions in regards to Tammy

[Wisdom]

You double-brainfarted, the discredit thing is about Klick's actions in regards to Tammy

ok but he was using my point about scum strategy to explain to you why scum don't discredit and I'm trying to explain to him why that point doesn't apply to what Klick is doing to Tammy.

no you explained why it doesnt apply in Tammy doing it to me

[Wisdom]

i say its unfair to make that judgement as there is realistically zero scum motivation and/or equal scum motivation as town behind klicks read

There is zero scum motivation in trying not to have Tammy getting townread by everyone?
There is zero scum motivation in trying to look like he's scumhunting?
Yes, you can argue there could be equal town motivation with a sentence like "Okay but maybe Klick is town and he's genuinely worried about Tammy and thought he should voice it" but you arent doing that, instead youre being weird and just making me think youre scum

[Wisdom]

Currently I just think Klick is actually town and MafMen is tming tbh

[Wisdom]

Im not eliminating anything
Youre arguing that the scum motivation I outlined has zero scum motivation in it

[Wisdom]

Yeah so basically we're back to the same conclusion - you're discrediting my read on Klick. You are taking my argument and going "nooo, this can also be town".

All this while avoiding to commit to an actual read yourself

[Wisdom]

Not rare at all, Klick voiced an opinion I completely disagreed with, pushed a player I am strongly townreading, hence it makes perfect sense to me that him being scum doing it is much more likely than him being town with a genuine concern for Tammy

You are trying to argue that he's equally likely town which is bs

[Wisdom]

And the fact you are stubborn about this just makes me think that you *know* Klick to be town so you know yourself to be right (;
Hence my statement about you tming.

[Wisdom]

What wrongthink?

Klick accused Tammy of trying to shade the conftown reads on me because she's scum worrying someone will get conftown

[Wisdom]

And the fact you are stubborn about this just makes me think that you *know* Klick to be town so you know yourself to be right (;
Hence my statement about you tming.

why cant mafmen just be town and wrong about scum klick tho lol

Because theyre needlessly stubborn about this as if they know theyre right

[Wisdom]

What wrongthink?

Klick accused Tammy of trying to shade the conftown reads on me because she's scum worrying someone will get conftown

yes
literally that

How is that "wrongthink"

[Wisdom]

Im def not scumreading him for having an unorthodox take

[Wisdom]

And quoting 504 does nothing for me other than making you even more likely scum for avoiding taking a solid stance on Klick

[Wisdom]

Im def not scumreading him for having an unorthodox take

that is how you made it seem

Nope, this is how you're trying to spin it as

I nowhere said that Klick is scum because his reads don't match the rest of the town's

I said that his argument doesn't make sense because Tammy looks town from it if anything

[Wisdom]

And quoting 504 does nothing for me other than making you even more likely scum for avoiding taking a solid stance on Klick

504 was because i felt you would somehow make it out to be me defending town!klick not me trying to prevent you from going after them for the wrong reasons

So basically what Im reading is you also know *me* to be town and you're trying to guide my reads

[Wisdom]

Thats sad because MafMen should be obvscum to everyone from this exchange

But Im used to people not seeing what Im seeing

[Wisdom]

Good thing I dont actually have to get you lim'd

As long as you remain in the final four Im content

[Wisdom]

Sure
Mafmen tried to fight my Klick-scum argument in a way that suggests he knows Klick is town

[Wisdom]

So mafmen and klick should be in final four, most likely along with infinity and cookie unless something dramatic happens

[Wisdom]

Tammy's >rand scum just because she questioned I was confirmed?

You can do much better than that

[Wisdom]

I dont think Klick-scum is going to tell you that his motivation was to get townread so it's kind of pointless asking him, but okay

[Wisdom]

In other circumstances sure, arguing against clears could be scum telling

Here it just makes Tammy town

[Wisdom]

Yup that would work really well if I was scum and just missed the vote

[Wisdom]

Town should do exactly what Tammy did, mention all possibilities
Just townreading me like you did is what scum who think everyone is townreading me anyway does

[Wisdom]

(to infinity obv)

[Wisdom]

Hmmm I was expecting Wisdom to scum read me.

Maybe just an issue of my own. I thought when I came back that I was going to be stuck with old meta expectations that I'd never be able to rid myself of, but most people haven't been holding me to old meta. Which is nice. Or he's scum :/

Have i ever actually scumread you, i cant recall

[Wisdom]

Who you would suggest for town deserved trust?

duck and pooky

[Wisdom]

I don't see anything different from what I remember from you, but then again i dont remember that much

[Wisdom]

cool conftown duck incoming

[Wisdom]

VOTE: tw

There, more confirmation

[Wisdom]

pooky want a vote too? im feeling generous

[Wisdom]

I can vote her too, that will help you finalize your read (:

[Wisdom]

VOTE: tammy

[Wisdom]

You're sad that Tammy will get to conftown?

[Wisdom]

Oh so i can trust multiple huh

[Wisdom]

nothing much we have two conftown and soon ill vote pooky as well

[Wisdom]

i wouldn't go that far but yeah i don't like mafmen's paranoia here

its not paranoia to account for every possibility

Yet when Tammy did it and Klick scumread her Klick was right, huh?
Youre so obviously scum

[Wisdom]

And conftowning tw helps stop townreads from forming how?

[Wisdom]

Dont see what 559 has to do with anything

[Wisdom]

Yep your goal is to make people think im confbiasing anyway, and not to convince me
You know youre not achieving the latter

[Wisdom]

I think both you and Tammy would exit as scum rather than stick around

[Wisdom]

sup

[Wisdom]

nope let infinity stay in bottom four

[Wisdom]

Cookie is the first id swap out tbh

Prism and Pookie im paranoid about

[Wisdom]

are we going to get started or what

Start what

[Wisdom]

Okay, who would you like to flip?

[Wisdom]

lol what

[Wisdom]

This feels completely random

[Wisdom]

I didn't really want your advice
You said you want people flipped so one would assume you had someone you wanted to flip
But it looks like you said it just to say it after all

[Wisdom]

Im not the one who asked for flips

[Wisdom]

Also you literally cannot do anything to me even if i was scum so this is just lol

[Wisdom]

I trusted Tammy because Im positive shes town and wanted to conf her
Im not trusting anyone else

[Wisdom]

You make zero sense

[Wisdom]

My take is that Pooky is scum who came into this game deciding to do his little rp with Tammy flirting, then I ruined it for him and he found a new thing to do now

[Wisdom]

(and this is another reason I trusted Tammy btw)

[Wisdom]

Btw Pooky, you didnt react like this when Enchant trusted tw
How was that different?

[Wisdom]

I actually still dont understand what you mean by "suicide bomb"

[Wisdom]

wisdom

if i trust everyone except you

that means i stay behind with you

it means i lose if i am scum

This you mean?
I dont get it, trusting everyone means someone can leave with you, and it doesn't stop anyone else from trusting me either

[Wisdom]

Prism can you explain what suicide bombing is since you seem to understand it

[Wisdom]

Oh ok I didnt take the 4 flips thing into account since we're not doing that

[Wisdom]

Maybe you're right and Wisdom is scum.

What are you agreeing with?

[Wisdom]

Youre not worth responding to
Youre calling me dictator over a single trust
If youre town and this is genuine thats sad

[Wisdom]

i also expressed scumreads on wisdom scum in 2 games and was right in both games

What's the second one other thsn Astral?

[Wisdom]

It matters because youre apparently making stuff up to improve your arguments. The only completed game you have with me is Astral, and even there Im pretty sure you just scumread me for my playstyle as I was playing exactly like my town meta

[Wisdom]

Say that when youve read me correctly enough times

[Wisdom]

Are you rc or something
Nobody else annoys me that much

[Wisdom]

Yeah you arent, you've played with him

Then i dunno
Nobody else claims to be that good at reading me

[Wisdom]

Yeah you arent, you've played with him

Then i dunno
Nobody else claims to be that good at reading me

why do you even think about who I am if I am wrong?

Because if you were rc id just ignore you because there was no convincing you youre being bad as usual
I am treating you like youre someone i have a single completed game with
If I knew youre someone else maybe id treat you differently

[Wisdom]

if wisdom is actually scum here itd probably be with the duck
i dont see any other potential pairings except mayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyybe tammy but she seems pretty green

Me/duck = duck leaves with Enchant
No reason for him to stay

[Wisdom]

choosing not to react to stupidity is different than not being able to

[Wisdom]

yeah question dodging was hella awkward considering how he happily fought me but /shrug

Not sure how you read that exchange and find

this

awkward instead of what pooky was doing
But lets not forget youre scum here

[Wisdom]

But to entertain you anyway
I think you are scum and I will keep fighting you all the time if I think not doing so might poison the town
Pooky is most likely town so I dont feel the need to do that

[Wisdom]

Pooky is most likely town

[Wisdom]

See Pooky
Everyone else wished you were scum because your argument was so dumb and sad
But Mafmen instatownreads you

[Wisdom]

Its just Klick and Mafmen and we're wasting our time in circles (:

[Wisdom]

Yep its extra obvious when you know him to be town, im sure

[Wisdom]

Its just Klick and Mafmen and we're wasting our time in circles (:

you are the one making people run in circles LOL

lol what?

[Wisdom]

And ill continue to be until you and klick are in last four and we win

[Wisdom]

sure, dont mind, as long as cookie and infinity town it up and seal this

[Wisdom]

to be frank even if I was scum here itd still be dumb and sad

[Wisdom]

which is why mafia needs votes
This mechanic is good in theory but it causes stagnation

[Wisdom]

I mean, ive trusted two

[Wisdom]

Yep them leaving together is best

[Wisdom]

Just so you know though, if this keeps stagnating I'll just vote someone again

[Wisdom]

Enchant what are your reads

[Wisdom]

Then youre saying tw/tammy should leave? If you dont want any more townreads it sounds like thats the only thing left you want in d1

[Wisdom]

You don't need to be good at scumreading
Just townread some more people

[Wisdom]

Im not saying you should trust them
Im saying that you seem to be apathetic in getting townreads yet youre saying it would be good for tw/Tammy to trust outside for poe reasons

It makes me paranoid that youre scum with someone outside and you hope they will be trusted

[Wisdom]

(or even yourself)

[Wisdom]

Of course you worry when your buddy is in the less active players

[Wisdom]

huh? How so? Say youre scum with cookie. You obviously can handle yourself much better than them since im the only one scumreading you while more people scumread cookie. Why wouldn't you want them finding a chance to exit?

[Wisdom]

I dont remember anyone saying you should stay till the end other than me
They do say it about Klick I think

[Wisdom]

Saying something is generally ok is not expressing a want for it to happen
Prism could also be ok with you going if someone else said it

[Wisdom]

No, you are arguing semantics because youre dodging the point
So to return to the actual point

Who are the ones in the lower activity players who you want to exit?
What are you doing about it other than just voicing a generic "uh maybe someone in the lower should exit"?
Take a stance and trust someone then

[Wisdom]

Yes, so which of them?

[Wisdom]

Id never nolim or try not to lim scum d1 so guess its a different approach to the game

[Wisdom]

But its definitely not the same
If we risk it here and scum exit, scum have 50% won
If we mislim in a regular game, we just lose a townie

[Wisdom]

But the point stands
Why do you not put your trust where your mouth is?
Since you dont care and find a scum trustfall acceptable why are you not using your trust vote?

[Wisdom]

Which is why games are not usually 7p without some mechanic to help town

[Wisdom]

Like it feels incredibly obvious to me that our best chance is to keep scum in final 4p
We dont even need to lim them, we autowin
Yet you're okay with ruining that and okay with a scumexit just for

probing

?

[Wisdom]

Mafmen suggested we just trust someone in the low activity and it doesnt matter if its scum

[Wisdom]

Good because for a moment I thought you were supporting him

[Wisdom]

Are they consensus townreads?
Are they safe to trust?

You openly said its the same as a mislim so you admitted theyre not safe

[Wisdom]

Therefore youre okay with scum exiting and you find it acceptable

[Wisdom]

p-edit: arent you the one who trusted tw/tammy in the first place before people confidently townread them? hypocritical bullshit

Tw was consensus and already trusted by Enchant, so just Tammy
The difference, again, is that I trusted my read and took the risk to progress the game
Youre not doing that because you are afraid to take such stances
Youre content arguing generic bs instead

[Wisdom]

i never vouched for 'random players'
mostly everybody has good feelings about the three players i mentioned

Yep change your tune now
Its not like you compared it to a mislim or anything

[Wisdom]

And no those three are not townleaned, stop repeating that

Infinity and cookie have been in my final four since the beginning, tw listed cookie as obvious scum, and you quoted prism yourself on this matter

[Wisdom]

tw was about as consensus as enchant, infinity, and cookie are now, same with tammy

lol no

[Wisdom]

Sucks being scum against me, sorry

[Wisdom]

Then dont

[Wisdom]

The goal is to have townies exit the game and disable scum from doing so
Two townies exiting the game definitely isnt negative

[Wisdom]

Sadly thats how this game works
Town have to exit the game
We're not gonna keep town around just to have a funnier time

[Wisdom]

Pooky will change his mind, dw. In fact I believe hes not actually scumreading me and this was a giant attempt to make things happen

[Wisdom]

Then play instead of whining

[Wisdom]

it's pretty enough townreads to fucking make decision about pair already.

I still dont understand this

So what is the pair then?

[Wisdom]

Because they all ask this question instead of voting

[Wisdom]

UNVOTE: tw

[Wisdom]

Totally

[Wisdom]

So pooky now that im conftown again will you actually play?

[Wisdom]

lol

[Wisdom]

Posting and saying nothing or arguing im a dictator because i made one trust is not playing

[Wisdom]

Enchant the point is youre getting soft conftown status if he trusts you and you dont instatrust

[Wisdom]

So enchant doesn't want in our coalition

Do you guys want prism in?

[Wisdom]

Im not

[Wisdom]

In my mind the path is;

Enchant + duck leave first

Tammy eventually pairs with Prism

And then I pick a townie out of {cookie, Pooky, Infinity} to leave with and we win

[Wisdom]

If Tammy prefers someone from that bracket instead of Prism they can be swapped but that's the general idea

[Wisdom]

If I leave Im afraid that Pooky will take control of the game if scum
As well as that Mafmen will be allowed to exit

[Wisdom]

nobody hates you and you continuing being theatrical is no help to anyone

[Wisdom]

I said youll take control if you are scum

[Wisdom]

If Im not here they will eventually, youre loud

[Wisdom]

But I dont want to get into this fight because I dont really think youre scum

I just have it as a possibility and it gives me an extra reason not wanting to exit

[Wisdom]

Ive played enough to know that town eventually listens to the loud players regardless of flips
Especially in stagnant games like this
Me flipping town will do nothing, the important thing is that you will have gotten rid of me and youll be able to push your agenda unchecked

[Wisdom]

kay then you should be fine with my plan

[Wisdom]

And who do you suggest is my partner in this case?

[Wisdom]

Then youll excuse me for believing youre just making stuff up because Ive outlined a clear path to town win and youre trying to disrupt it

[Wisdom]

Ill just say again that I hope that youre scum because if youre town this play is completely unwarranted and nonsensical

[Wisdom]

buddy your postcount means nothing

What have you done this game other than a) rp with Tammy b) nonsensically scumread me because I dared to proceed the game by trusting c) whine?

How have all those posts youre so proud of have helped achieve a town win?

[Wisdom]

okay then chill on the side and let those who actually care play

I was not punching anyone, I was saying why I prefer not leaving

[Wisdom]

duck you could have just left with Enchant instead of replacing out ._.

[Wisdom]

I’ve written and deleted a few posts this morning but meh.

I agree with prisms 1445 and should probably just go to work.

Are you okay with my plan?

Enchant/tw leave now, then from the pool of {Prism, cookie, Infinity} you pick someone and leave with them, then I do the same, and we keep {Klick, Pooky, Mafmen} and the unpicked for final 4

[Wisdom]

Also y'all are playing trust fall wrong. Why is this game almost 60 pages with no one leaving. Utterly baffled

Youre right, please leave with Enchant soon so we can proceed

[Wisdom]

Honestly at this point I think this is just over. If anyone is scum in the block it's me or Enchant playing the fucking game of his life.

yep

[Wisdom]

Nah prob because of pooky

[Wisdom]

does anyone have an explanation for pooky's treatment of the wisdom slot if scum?

If town you mean?

[Wisdom]

yep
So is it time to move on yet?
I feel like we're repeating the same things
Tammy, dwlee, Enchant, Ydrasee and myself are soft conftowns and we're leaving before f4, with Prism most likely being the final one who leaves

[Wisdom]

yep
Enchant/dwlee exit
Tammy/Ydrasse exit
Me/Prism exit

town win

[Wisdom]

tw offered to vote Enchant to conf him and Enchant refused while he could just accept and exit
dwlee (tw) was voted by both me and Enchant and could exit but didn't (plus he could have exited instead of replacing out)
Tammy was voted by both me and dwlee and didn't exit
Ydrasee was voted by dwlee and didn't exit
I was voted by tw and didn't exit

Prism is not as town as the above 5 but is my top townread out of the remaining

[Wisdom]

I want to exit with ydrasse

ok do that
ydrasee do you mind

[Wisdom]

They exited, cookie. Lets wait for the flips now

[Wisdom]

Tammy your turn

Do you want Enchant or Prism

[Wisdom]

Id rather you go safely with Enchant if youre asking me since I dont know Prism and this could be her scumgame for all I know

[Wisdom]

Why do you say "either of us" instead of "you" when you know you arent scum

[Wisdom]

@prism

[Wisdom]

Cookie i feel like in your completed large you played much more.. normally? I dont know how to put it

Are you trying to change your playing style for alt purposes here?

[Wisdom]

That was just tw though, who was the other "hardtown"?

[Wisdom]

I think I prefer Tammy/Cookie

Enchant/Prism might hide a scum in them if not both. It's true that the designated final 4 are far too okay with the plan for this to be good

[Wisdom]

I said my opinion, didnt force anything
Why the exaggeration?

[Wisdom]

Cookie is my top townread out of the designated final 4 since forever

And Im pretty sure youre smart enough to understand the point here. If scum are truly in the designated final four, they lose. It makes no sense they are not objecting and they are just staying silent waiting to die. Therefore it makes sense that one scum is in the ones favored to be trusted (you/Prism)

[Wisdom]

Im forcing nobody to do nothing
Tammy will pick who she leaves with as planned
I pick tomorrow

[Wisdom]

VOTE: tammy

good game

Sorry Mafmen

[Wisdom]

Im probably just bad and cookie is scum
Last pages were terrible

[Wisdom]

Yep scum just didnt play essentially and we fought each other all game