Open 836: Pick Your Poison (Game Over)

[Toogeloo]

I'm not going to bastardize the game, sadly, but I

am

confirmed town by virtue of just being in the game.

I plan on coasting for a bit until I am up to speed.

[Toogeloo]

I'm 10 pages in. I want to vote skitooky from what I've seen. It's Thanksgiving weekend, I'll probably be fully caught up by the end of it.

Someone tell me bullet points to be mindful of.

[Toogeloo]

Seeing some Bingle things that make me go, "Eewww." Lots of IIoA, but there was a hypocop suggestion which is bad. Scum love hypocop because it narrows down who the cop is. Why would we need to hypocop with a 1 shot cop anyways? Any 1-shot cop is going to vehemently defend or attack their scan regardless, and I highly doubt a 1-shot holsters on Night 1 anyways.

[Toogeloo]

Scum know what they picked town to have, town don't know. Hypocopping is just going to circle jerk the town.

[Toogeloo]

- toog's meh, wanna hear more abt why he dislikes us

Early vibe I got. I'm only 10 pages in on the read through. I didn't specifically like the way you gave out town reads so easily. Seemed to me like an early peace pipe.

[Toogeloo]

How much are you driving the hydra vs. Pooky, skitter?

[Toogeloo]

I don't think A50 makes two separate posts, one intentional and one unintentional, involving the ignorance of the setup, as scum.

[Toogeloo]

VOTE: darby

[Toogeloo]

VOTE: Enchant

This is scum. I did an iso dive of ico and darby on Night 1 (and Night 2, thanks guys!). Based on the combined associatives from both slots, I am like 90% confident Enchant is scum here.

[Toogeloo]

Based on the combined associatives from both slots

Got some examples you can point to?

I hated it in school when teachers told me to show my work too, lol. I'm not going to effort that much, but I pointed you in the direction. You can either trust me or go look for yourself.

[Toogeloo]

VOTE: Enchant

This is scum. I did an iso dive of ico and darby on Night 1 (and Night 2, thanks guys!). Based on the combined associatives from both slots, I am like 90% confident Enchant is scum here.

Why did scum-enchant hammer both darby and gamma?

~ skitter

You suggesting scum don't hammer partners or miselims?

[Toogeloo]

VOTE: dwlee

I feel p good abt town-enchant tbh

Toog if u can even give a tldr about what you found scimmy there, i would appreciate it

~ skitter

It's the way ico and darby handled Enchant.

Darby was "town-hunting" more and trying to drive home people as town, but the Enchant read never clicked. It was just constantly subtly pushed as a town read while more heavily pushing actual town reads, like A50 and Gamma, who have actually flipped town. Kind of a reverse rule of three tbqh.

Ico meanwhile kept slandering Enchant, and calling a few of their things scummy off the cuff, but rarely ever pushed and generally ignored Enchant, while keeping Enchant in a Null pile.

I'm not sure how else to tell you that the associatives between both parts of the flipped scum fell like they indicate Enchant as a partner than an adversary.

[Toogeloo]

I looked at Almost50. He really didn't do a ton with reads. He was dead wrong about Gamma. He was wrong about Iconeum/Darby although he did vote there for thinking Darby had a stronger role than Gamma lol. I do notice he had Enchant low on his reads list but he only mentioned that a few times. I think it's more likely Almost50 was killed for being a possible power role or being too widely town read than being a threat to find the scum.

A50 town slipped too much to be scum, especially with concerns to how the power setup was. A50 also likely town read players who aren't scum and pushed that agenda (myself for sure), and would have been both a hard mis-elim himself and on others he would fight. He had a possibility of being a power role in part to the way all VTs should be operating, by feigning power crumbs. It was a high equity kill to eliminate A50 considering all factors. There aren't many other players in the game who were likely better.

Enchant is still my Elim of choice today.

[Toogeloo]

Surprising but this setup not helpful to hammering partners.

Like, if i was maf i knew what PR are here and my partners as well too.

Claiming something which we didn't add buy off time always (well not for long considered Vig shot IC but... Wait lol)

This setup doesn't have any effect on scum play other than knowing the setup and playing around that information. Scum do what scum do if they think it's right at the time.

[Toogeloo]

I think that scum liked the way the Gamma elimination happened. A quick Elim on a town slot is generally a sign that town banded together and erred as a whole, and I would argue less likely that scum drove it home. Scum probably was on Gamma, but I think town drove that wagon.

[Toogeloo]

Town:
VP
F&G
SA

PoE:
Enchant
Andante
Bingle
Dwlee

Of those PoE, I lean dwlee as more than likely town.

[Toogeloo]

Enchant feels obvious, and I'm frustrated that everyone else has their own agenda, and is ignoring Enchant.

[Toogeloo]

Sorry, I'm here. What did I miss?

[Toogeloo]

Endwalker came out Friday, so... Yeah.

[Toogeloo]

however, unless we wanna ego vote out VP (or whatever it's called) the team is simply Toog and Enchant

Ooo... Interesting solve.

[Toogeloo]

Andante, you are laughably bad... Unless you're scum... But, that would probably still be laughably bad.

Guess I'm overestimating how close to confirmed town I actually was.

---

In any case, if you think I am scum with Enchant, you still flip Enchant here first. They have more associatives than I do. If they flip town, I look worse, you push me tomorrow. If they flip scum, you can push your tinfoil tomorrow.

However, if you flip me first, and I flip town, you look absolutely foolish in MeLo.

[Toogeloo]

I mean, it's a game throw regardless. Not really a fan of players who claim scum or vote themselves to hasten their wagons. It's too much wifom to sort through frustration or daring their elim strategy. ​


Friendly reminder that No Elim should be done at MeLo if we are even numbers. I say this in the event I'm night killed, and not based on any flip information. I think I am a reasonable night kill choice considering the players left all find each other equally suspicious, but I've read that apparently I should be more likely town due to the disassociatives of my predecessor and flipped scum. I'm also not reading a shit ton, and on coast mode since I'm playing a ton of the new FFXIV expansion, so I doubt scum actually fear me.

[Toogeloo]

(However) I'm also not reading a shit ton, and on coast mode since I'm playing a ton of the new FFXIV expansion, so I doubt scum actually fear me.

EBWOP

[Toogeloo]

Toog, you never answered why you're confirmed town

You didn't read it then. It was in the post above.

[Toogeloo]

Scum is much more likely to claim scum than town is

I actually disagree with this premise, and think the opposite. Why do u think this?

~ skitter

Scum will absolutely give the town the finger in the face of a conflicted lynch and claim Mafia, daring people to flip them or wifom them into another direction. The only way claiming scum isn't playing against your win in is if you are actually scum.

[Toogeloo]

If Enchant wants to game throw as town or scum, they claim Mafia. The only difference is the wifom benefit from scum perspective.

[Toogeloo]

I don't give a shit why Enchant does what Enchant does. My reason for being on them isn't even relevant to their gameplay.

[Toogeloo]

Lynch all liars.... Duh.

[Toogeloo]

Win/win

[Toogeloo]

dwlee and vpb strategy is just spam so much nonsense until town stops reading and just let them mis elim enchant

When I come back and see multiple pages of just you and VP back and forth, I skip that too. In fact, I read less new posts almost every time I check the thread. People can't seem to shut up.

[Toogeloo]

Not me, I townread toog/andante

Christmas miracle? Usually you are quite apprehensive of me.

[Toogeloo]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: No Elim

At this point, I want to see who scum kills and then we don't need 5 votes to eliminate a player too.

I couldn't care less about anything else happening at this point.

[Toogeloo]

Because we're all assholes who want our own way. Why should I be the one that concedes?

[Toogeloo]

On enchant and bingle

I really think this is the team

Also how I'd probably lean. I'm not interested in dwlee, and I have felt VP more likely town today.

But, hey, it's Burger King up in this thread.

[Toogeloo]

On enchant and bingle

I really think this is the team

Also how I'd probably lean. I'm not interested in dwlee, and I have felt VP more likely town today.

But, hey, it's Burger King up in this thread.

Isn't enchant an option?

that's what I want, but it takes 5 votes to elim someone, and this is a town divided.

[Toogeloo]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Bingle

[Toogeloo]

Dwlee is almost assuredly town, if F&G hammers, I'm absolutely certain both scum will have been on dwlee as well.

Enchant, Bingle, Andante, F&G. There are two scum in here.

[Toogeloo]

and when I go "toog is probably scum" you're all "I'm confirmed clear!!!" and never answered my "why are you confirmed clear"

You keep shouting this when I've given the explanation.

[Toogeloo]

Bingle scum-slipped, tried to cover it up (messily), and now we'll have to deal with a replacement who doesn't have to explain it.

[Toogeloo]

Y do u think dwlee is town tho?

Because I only like 1 person currently on the wagon.

[Toogeloo]

Actually, nm.

UNVOTE:

I misread what Bingle was doing. Apparently he Bingle was defending F&G by using VP's posts against him.

[Toogeloo]

VOTE: Enchant

[Toogeloo]

I'm dying here. My vote isn't changing until Enchant dies, and will vote here tomorrow if I'm alive and they are too.

[Toogeloo]

And yep, I'm aware tomorrow is MeLo if we get it wrong today.

[Toogeloo]

The camp thing is probably the best reason to do the No Elim today so that the player the scum opt to kill both eliminates a suspect (since apparently no one is universally town read), and we don't have this impasse requiring 5 votes to eliminate someone. Plus the dead player's reads can be more heavily weighted.

[Toogeloo]

There is still another PR too, so they might come back with something useful.

[Toogeloo]

Nah, if we get an Enchant Elim to actually happen, I'd be all over that. I think the No Elim is probably the best consolation I can see happening for the various people all wanting their wagons.

[Toogeloo]

A no flip will be necessary at some point, unless we get get scum back to back. Doesn't really matter when it happens.

[Toogeloo]

Tracker tracking kill?
I'd imagine a 1-Shot Cop would have resulted by now.
JK seems stronger than Tracker in most scenarios, and is even more powerful now that the only actions it can mess with are from the Mafia.

[Toogeloo]

[Toogeloo]

VOTE: No Elim

[Toogeloo]

Curious if Looker has anything to add to the game state.

Dwlee and VPB look like they attempted to distance at the day start.

I also don't like to drag out MeLo. People spend way too much time wifoming over their decisions. You either trust yourself and others, or you don't.


VOTE: Dwlee
UNVOTE:
VOTE: VP Baltar

[Toogeloo]

I'll vote either way.

[Toogeloo]

Oops. Oh well. I might have been convinced to go with dwlee first, bit I figured VPB would have been the more difficult fish to catch. I think I had Bingle as scum on my first 10 pages read, and I don't recall why I gave up on that.

[Toogeloo]

If it's any consolation, SA, you were the only person I knew wasn't scum. It was really just between Dwlee, Baltar, and Looker, and I went with my gut.