Open 842: Diffusion of Power [Postgame]

[morph the cat]

Greetings, Gentlebeings!

[morph the cat]

So this should finally be the game where I make it to the top of ffery's elusive town town section. Because even if she has niggles about me, Cabd can read penguin and that removes all doubts.

Little victories.

We're counting on you two to be our easiest read in the game.

Such confidence in our alignment, though~

[morph the cat]

Such confidence in our alignment, though~

I was counting on someone going oops perspective slip there.

That it's you is concerning.

Good!

[morph the cat]

Hi concerning, I'm Dad.

[morph the cat]

You're welcome to fake a scum read on us, but you're signing your own elim wagon the next day if so

huh?

Missed this. I'm putting BoP on morph to not misread us, and I'm saying that if they claim to scumread us and get us miselim'd, they should be the next day's elim with prejudice.

But we'll see what develops. Like you say, it's page one.

--PA

P-edit: pirate posting will be autocoted tyvm

BoP is gonna work both ways here.

[morph the cat]

Also, that poor tilde.

[morph the cat]

If that is the case. I thought it was ffery and I thought if you guys are scum, she's gonna fake paranoia on us.

It was ffery. And I even used it contextually. On page 1.

sad.

[morph the cat]

Why are you so wooden?

am i? i feel pretty loose so far!

you might be! maybe I'm a stick in the mud.

Hi Stick in the Mud, I'm the second dad joke from the dad joke allotment for this game.

[morph the cat]

Why are you so wooden?

am i? i feel pretty loose so far!

It was interesting that you stepped into the middle of the dance, though!

[morph the cat]

I can't read hydras if at least one of the heads doesn't sign

it's page 2 and I'm already confused on what head is posting what



VOTE: morph the cat

We don't sign.

Obligatory "If I think it matters who's making one of our posts, then I'll make it clear in what I write, who is posting."

See 34 for a simplistic example.

also: spayhalf = ffery, neuterhalf = cabd for future reference.

[morph the cat]

BoP is gonna work both ways here.

Mmkay, which pairing do you think has the highest BoP?

PA --> Cabd
PA --> ffery
Tammy --> Cabd
Tammy --> ffery

I think 'dreads' is stronger than I'd say, but I haven't seen a recent happy Cephrir scum game. Could vary based on teammates, but even Bloodstained with a good team and playing with his other half he was grumpy.

--PA

IMO PA --> Cabd

I know Tammy gets paranoid of me even when I'm peak-town (see smokefilled antechamber).

And you misread me for a while in Bloodstained, though I was admittedly a hot mess due to PTTD until Bork made his post about changing the alternate scum wincon.

And how do you rank our BOP pairings?

[morph the cat]

i have come to dread red pms lately because my rate of rolling it in the past 2 years has been like 70% or higher

Yes but also situational, given Dandelion Wine was a thing that we got all cackle-glee with.

Also, Mood. Both dance games, grrrr

[morph the cat]

trajectory

I giggled a bit.

Suffice it to say we PREFER to be treated as a single entity and not two separate players once stuff gets going.

[morph the cat]

Both heads of the Amazonian hydra are female.

[morph the cat]

The giggle is because spay pretty much INTRODUCED the term "trajectory" into the mafiascum lexicon.

[morph the cat]

I can't read hydras if at least one of the heads doesn't sign

it's page 2 and I'm already confused on what head is posting what



VOTE: morph the cat

We don't sign.

Obligatory "If I think it matters who's making one of our posts, then I'll make it clear in what I write, who is posting."

See 34 for a simplistic example.

also: spayhalf = ffery, neuterhalf = cabd for future reference.

okay

if that's how you're gonna play sure

but just to say it in advance, if you guys trajectory later on feels like a mess and your slot sketchy, I'm not gonna buy you guys retroactively going into "oh that one was Cabd's post" or "oh that one was ffery's post". I'm not going into that rabbit hole later on, to me hydras either sign their posts from the start or accept that they are not gonna be treated as proper hydras by me and simply judged as a whole.

If you won't make an effort to distinguish the heads/who's talking, do not

ever

expect me to do that job for you.

I don't want to sound rude or mean, but it's something I need to make clear about my perspective on hydras.

It's how morph has played since 2013. I don't want to sound rude or mean either, but we won't change how we play in this game regardless of your perspective on hydras.

[morph the cat]

The giggle is because spay pretty much INTRODUCED the term "trajectory" into the mafiascum lexicon.

oh, I thought her title was solely because she was really good on reading people by their trajectory or something, but it seems she also introduced the term to the forum hm...

interesting

Did you do some pre-game research on the player list?

[morph the cat]

The giggle is because spay pretty much INTRODUCED the term "trajectory" into the mafiascum lexicon.

oh, I thought her title was solely because she was really good on reading people by their trajectory or something, but it seems she also introduced the term to the forum hm...

interesting

Did you do some pre-game research on the player list?

[morph the cat]

That would be a very, very old marathon game.

it was ffery. I was on hiatus from ~2018 until late 2020. most of my games are start to finish affairs, but I probably play in hydrae as frequently (or more) than on my main. This hydra alone has played 22 or 23 games.

[morph the cat]

Also, nice to see you NSG! It's been a very, very long time!

[morph the cat]

Also, nice to see you NSG! It's been a very, very long time!

it has! well, it has either way, but it may also be possible that i've played with you (via secret alt) more recently than you think you've played with me. either way, cool to be in a game with so many familiar faces

Intriguing!

~heads off to look at bookmarked games~

[morph the cat]

You nerdsniped ffery good job.

[morph the cat]

I'm scared of GL's scum game but don't tell him it's a secret

I'm just worried he'll refuse to leave the dance and make Ydrasse cry again.

[morph the cat]

so guiltylion is guilty of that as well?

viewtopic.php?p=13167407#p13167407

[morph the cat]

fire is using an anime girl avatar now...?!

He lost a dead thread bet with Pooky about the dancegame.

[morph the cat]

Why are you so wooden?

am i? i feel pretty loose so far!

It was interesting that you stepped into the middle of the dance, though!

you know what they say, it takes three to thrango.

Did you get anything useful from it?

[morph the cat]

However, are you showing me that game just to explain the content/as small talk or did you have some game-related side-objective with that?

5% context, 95% giving Ydra shit.

[morph the cat]

Well, just don't do it in the game unless you want to descend to modkilled-hell.

Wait till you're in the dead thread~

[morph the cat]

For having several player slots posting, the fact that we only have one solid read is kind of concerning. If this were a pool game being played casually at the bar, I'd ask to re-rack and break again because half the balls didn't even move yet on THIS break.

[morph the cat]

No rvs. Only Seriousness.

y'all beat me to it this time!

I can't read hydras if at least one of the heads doesn't sign

it's page 2 and I'm already confused on what head is posting what



VOTE: morph the cat

I don't like this post, it doesn't suggest that you're actually trying to figure out which head is which, and if you're confused you could just ask instead of using it as a motivation for a vote

VOTE: Shirou

I don't like this post.

[morph the cat]

i wonder what having solid reads on page 4 is like. it sounds nice.

Singular.

Let me give you a hint. You're still in Seattle, right?

Wait for Tammy to make a post, then time exactly 2 hours and 10 minutes after that, turn your ears to the west, just a tad bit south. Do you hear demonic screeching? If so, Tammy drew red. If not, locktown.

[morph the cat]

(collectively)

Not enough data points to argue this either direction, although I-neuter liked your openings as a solo player before.

[morph the cat]

GL, are you town reading us already? That warms our furry hearts.

[morph the cat]

also morph when have you (collectively) ever liked my early game posts

last time we played in that Dedede fusion game I remember us arguing for the vast majority of it, D1 for sure at least

it's prob gonna be the same thing again here

Don't think I need a tilde this time.

[morph the cat]

(for those of you just joining us, hello, and welcome aboard to the thing where both heads sync and make basically the same post independently back to back)

[morph the cat]

We're just curious because you came right out and stated that a scum read on you would be us "generally not liking your openings ever" without affordance for us being scum trying to start up a trajectory towards voting you, so...?

[morph the cat]

(For context of people who don't know, the Cabd in Morph and the PA in Amazon are husband-wife.)

[morph the cat]

although I'm here now for truly different reasons/drives

What are the reasons/drives?

[morph the cat]

3 years

I feel like a boomer-cat.

[morph the cat]

What's your one solid read?

i wonder what having solid reads on page 4 is like. it sounds nice.

Singular.

Let me give you a hint. You're still in Seattle, right?

Wait for Tammy to make a post, then time exactly 2 hours and 10 minutes after that, turn your ears to the west, just a tad bit south. Do you hear demonic screeching? If so, Tammy drew red. If not, locktown.

https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=s ... ford%2C+IL

I'm local and have yet to hear any demonic wailing.

[morph the cat]

I agree with Shirou that the hydra no-signing makes it harder to read, and even after reading morph's justification I'm not sure I totally agree with it. You're still two different people, not sure how it's useful to treat you as one entity when you're going to have different thought processes, etc. But I guess if it never becomes a big deal there's no reason to complain, so I'll respect it.

Note that we have a title, the ONLY hydra on site to have one at all, precisely for the degree to which we synchronize our thoughts.

It won't be an issue this game.

[morph the cat]

Spay reminds me I meant to correct "West" to "East" but ceph is just so good he can do the wrap-around-the-globe listening instead.

[morph the cat]

Also, spay has a townlean she's going to plant in partial shade and water for a bit and see how it does.

[morph the cat]

Ceph what are your page 6 thoughts?

[morph the cat]

You lurking, NSG?

[morph the cat]

Once more for the back of the room...

morph the cat (Cabd & fferyllt)
Amazonian Legends (penguin_alien & Tammy)

Cabd and penguin_alien are married IRL and so as one might guess, extremely familiar with one another and have a sort of arms race between them going to out-evolve the other.

Tammy lives nearby to Cabd and P_A, and there have been multiple Chicago Scummer IRL meetups (And attended their wedding!), and so there's familiarity there too.

Ffery is the witch-queen who lives aloof in her own little slice of California with godlike reads and recipes.

[morph the cat]

You lurking, NSG?

not really sure what you mean by that. i've been reading the thread over the course of the day but still don't really have anything interesting to say unfortunately.

Oh, duh. It says on the list of people. Sorry about that.

no need to apologize, i can easily see how the game so far would be confusing to anyone unfamiliar with the cast of characters we've got here.

The speed of your answer was interesting.

Though compulsive F5ing is a thing we too indulge in.

[morph the cat]

we too indulge in

We're not addicted, we COULD stop at any time, I tell you.

[morph the cat]

The speed of your answer was interesting.

Though compulsive F5ing is a thing we too indulge in.

oh, i see what you mean. nope, my response to fua was pretty much just good timing. i've been known to compulsively F5 but not in that instance

Do you have any uninteresting thoughts about the game?

[morph the cat]

Hey GuiltyLion! Still love the avatar.

What do you expect from Ydrasse this game?

--PA

Why ask this?

Why did post 110 in particular need to be poked at?

[morph the cat]

Do you have any uninteresting thoughts about the game?

i don't have any idea of how to play the setup really, or if there's some specific strategy for this setup that would cause it to be played any way different than a regular one.
i lean town on fua.
this may sound like some kind of attack or affront or something given that i'm saying it to you (it's not meant to be), but i wonder if it would be best for town / for overall game health if the top posters were to sit back for a while. there are still people who haven't posted and it's always daunting to arrive to there already being like ten pages, and in general it might help get reads on some of the lower frequency posters. like i said, that isn't a recommendation – it's actually just me wondering, perhaps the distribution of posting is the reason why nobody seems to have any serious reads. or maybe it's just because we've somehow gotten onto really non-revealing conversation topics, who knows.

I'm not an open setup aficionado, but I feel like this one doesn't lend itself to overly mechanics-focused play. We joined because catboi mentioned it was close to being pulled, and we like the player list.

Your point is decent, though in some of our recent games towns have been able to link up and overwhelm scum teams precisely because of early high activity.

[morph the cat]

Ah, but it's so simple. Clearly one of the hydras is evil, so if we just tunnel vision one of them everything will work out fine.

Hello!

neuterhalf is the cat who cackles and revs up the wood chipper. spayhalf is the cat who invites you over for a spot of polonium tea.

[morph the cat]

Ceph what are your page 6 thoughts?

i'm liking shirou a moderate amount. they seem at ease and i don't mean because they're talking about how at ease they are/want to be.

i didn't care for fua's first post.

hmm.

Trying to remember if you saying what I'm thinking is a good sign or not.

[morph the cat]

Ceph what are your page 6 thoughts?

i'm liking shirou a moderate amount. they seem at ease and i don't mean because they're talking about how at ease they are/want to be.

i didn't care for fua's first post.

hmm.

Trying to remember if you saying what I'm thinking is a good sign or not.

Your honor, the prosecution would like to call "The Dandelion/Deacon joint ISO from Tenet" to the stand.

[morph the cat]

i've been reading the thread over the course of the day but still don't really have anything interesting to say unfortunately.

uh oh

elaborate?

[morph the cat]

mfw my own hydra partner tries to traumatize me...

[morph the cat]

tried to think about something more...FUN, and I kinda had a silly idea, but I felt a bit too self-conscious in this playerlist to open the game with it.

NSG and both halves of morph are mechanics nerds, you will find safe haven for that sort of topic should you change your mind.

[morph the cat]

Is that still a thing?

[morph the cat]

It's page 8 and 3 day-3 passes are already punched.

I take it back about a re-rack.

[morph the cat]

Oh hell yeah, page 8 wagon on me? Let's do it.

To be honest I don't really feel like we have much game content to analyze at the moment, so hopefully that'll change as more people join the thread. At the very least I haven't really picked up anything significant (except for my very serious vote on Amazonian, as one of the hydras is guaranteed to be evil).

nothing from pages 4-6?

like whether or not the vote was silly on amazonian there has been a little speaking of the slot that isn't related to their status as hydra, so just... no thoughts?

This post is better version of the one I had planned to make.

Spoiler:

nothing has really happened yet

???

Ceph what are your page 6 thoughts?

i'm liking shirou a moderate amount. they seem at ease and i don't mean because they're talking about how at ease they are/want to be.

i didn't care for fua's first post.

VOTE: Shirou

Very self-aware. Almost too self-aware, if I do say so myself.

And that's just based upon the past page or so. There is absolutely non-hydra-talk alignment indictive talk happening. So why are you not seeing it?

[morph the cat]

I tried to think about something more...FUN, and I kinda had a silly idea, but I felt a bit too self-conscious in this playerlist to open the game with it. Well either way that's as far as I know for town, for scum I can imagine multiple fun gambits to do...

:townposting:

That's the easy takeaway, the hard one is understanding the path behind 199 so por favor, step up to the NSG-whisperer stage and enlighten us.

[morph the cat]

I might not be as easy of a read as I used to be. General approach is the same I think, but for the most part the over emotional part isn’t there anymore.

I don’t know what my scum game looks like either and I’m pretty terrified at what it will look like.

Agree your new scumgame will not fit any established patterns.

I posit this game is not its maiden voyage.

[morph the cat]

You're welcome to fake a scum read on us, but you're signing your own elim wagon the next day if so

huh?

Missed this. I'm putting BoP on morph to not misread us, and I'm saying that if they claim to scumread us and get us miselim'd, they should be the next day's elim with prejudice.

But we'll see what develops. Like you say, it's page one.

--PA

P-edit: pirate posting will be autocoted tyvm

BoP is gonna work both ways here.

I wanted to poke at this, and was waiting for you and penguin to be done, but I’ve been following along a bit while working and I think my thoughts there deflated but I’d been sitting on it to talk about it so I’m mostly posting this thought for my brain to let it go.

I also did not like fua’s first post.

what did you want to talk about?

[morph the cat]

But yeah. It’s not a hard scumread or anything. Just a gut vote because I don’t know people enough to have real reads on them yet.

You sure put a lot of words around it for a gut vote.

[morph the cat]

Day Masonize: Amazon

Ready to locktown as of 257.

Let me know when you two nerds catch up to our read~

[morph the cat]

How's that for a BOP gauntlet?

[morph the cat]

But yeah. It’s not a hard scumread or anything. Just a gut vote because I don’t know people enough to have real reads on them yet.

You sure put a lot of words around it for a gut vote.

this seems unfair – the original post and vote was pretty succinctly put and the elaboration only came after being explicitly asked for it

Perhaps it is unfair. The elaboration was kinda buzzwordy for my taste, though.

[morph the cat]

That's cool.

Maybe you could let him respond to it?

[morph the cat]

I can say more words around it if you keep asking questions.

I was going to ask if you had thoughts on any other players but I see that perhaps you do!

[morph the cat]

Interested in how claiming confusion over hydras is anything but NAI. Like, I've seen scum fake confusion over the mechanics to appear +town. But over hydra composition?

From scum, I think hydrae tend to get nagged about signing posts, along with general gripes about hydrae being hard or impossible to read, or that hydrae hide behind dissonance to avoid taking stances. That sort of thing comes from town, too, occasionally, often enough that I don't automatically scum-bin players who go that direction, but it think it does skew toward scum at least in my personal experience.

I was somewhat surprised that two players went that route in the first few pages, with a third expressing confusion about who's who and how to keep track.

It would be shocking if they're all three scum. it would not be shocking if none are.

[morph the cat]

UNVOTE: Amazonian Legends
I need some time to think about this.

I thought that was an RVS vote?

[morph the cat]

I'd come around to a townlean on Tejate but post 302 bugs me.

[morph the cat]

implosion and nQ get major towncred for mindmelds

and I kinda townread Ydrasse so far too

These stances seem really assured based on what is still pretty thin data on the ground, GL.

[morph the cat]

We're still stuck at 3 day-3 passes. :/

[morph the cat]

Can you put some words around your NSG townread?

[morph the cat]

fua, why morph town? i was just thinking it's a little alarming i don't have any reason to townread them yet

Hmm

[morph the cat]

So my question more explicitly is, do either of you lean more town or scum on the other after that conversation?

I was starting to scum lean fua after that post before they explained it and now I'm back to null, so you could say I improved my opinion on them?

But more importantly than that...I kinda think I got information from that exchange that fua likely wouldn't want me to explain in detail. It isn't game-related but it helps out in the game you could say?

fua, why morph town? i was just thinking it's a little alarming i don't have any reason to townread them yet

why nsg, too? i don't feel like she has done anything

I like how she’s approached the game so far and I feel like her posting is notably better than some others here. I can’t find any reason to scumread her which is more than I can say for a few people.

Have you played much with her?

[morph the cat]

Townlean:
Redtea

Spoiler: Entire Redtea ISO

what's up everyone what IS the tea rn

#328 made me ugly laugh

you people sl'd fua for a little airheadedness in their opening posts?
might as well tie *me* to the stake right now then

really though what I see from their iso is that they're going for more of a conversationalist playstyle rather than an essayist one.

what's up everyone what IS the tea rn

Also sorry for not welcoming, your reply kinda slipped my mind once it turned to the next page. The tea is not exactly what I'd call piping hot right now.

it's almost disappointing but yn the good and respectful vibes make up for it

nyway I only read what was between my first post and my second, I'll read the first 10 pages in the morning
peace~~

Can you explain what in the above ISO led you to putting them in this tier, amongst your towniest reads (given the hydras are there just by default and not due to an actual read of your own as per your admission)

[morph the cat]

Maybe I have, maybe I haven’t. If you think her scum meta is identifiable to a person who’s played with her before then I can listen to what you have to say. I’m going based off of what she’s posted here thus far.

I was wondering if your read of her was informed by prior games played.

[morph the cat]

If you need me to name something I think her suggestion of the top posters sitting back for a while is a good idea, especially since we have a person who hasn’t posted still.

The only thing that pinged me was that she kinda jumped to your defense when I expressed my eyebrow-raise at your post about Shirou being LAMISTy.

Which is kinda kneejerk on my part. I feel like it's very easy to paste that kind of label on someone's post. Your subsequent reasoning about your Shirou read at that point was decent reasoning, hence my not pushing you further on it.

[morph the cat]

fua have you ever seen someone vote or fos you and go “gosh, I’m town but their reasoning here sure is solid”?

This post clangs.

Anyway.

Unvote

VOTE: morph the cat

'

And the trajectory of this one elicited a quite audible snort.

[morph the cat]

I think fua's play has solo player written all over it.

[morph the cat]

We're still stuck at 3 day-3 passes. :/

This emotion doesn't really jive. 3 day-3 passes... literally less than 12 hours after the game began. How does that merit a :/?

Because our recent games have rained early townreads.

This is a less familiar player list, though. Neither of us often dip in to the Open or Normal queues, and it's been quite a long while since we've played with GuiltyLion*, you and NSG (tantalizing alt hint notwithstanding). And there's a huge swath of players who are completely new to me and I think Cabd.

* aside from a very short period when Cabd was in the just finished dancegame. We both have thoughts about GL's play here vs that game, but they're still in the amorphous zone.

[morph the cat]

I very desperately want to call Shirou super town but I feel like he's the kind of slot that I incorrectly townread sometimes.

I like tejate/ceph/nQ/ydrasse for town so far.

And you're questioning us wanting more than 3 townreads atp?

There's very little intersection in our reads atm. Hmm.

[morph the cat]

Also I have absolutely no idea what "clang" is supposed to mean. My guess is it's negative because I think that one post of mine was pretty bad (it wasn't really intended to be good i was mostly annoyed for, really, similar reasons to what shirou just outlined)

"This is the kind of speech a villian of the week gives to the member of the heros party to convince them to pick up the idiot ball and do something really stupid to further the big bad's goals" was me specific thought.

[morph the cat]

I kind of want to know what clang is supposed to mean too, actually.

Spayhalf used that word. My very initial call to attention about it in our hydra chat was something to the effect of Alarm klaxons sounding on 428.

[morph the cat]

I kind of want to know what clang is supposed to mean too, actually.

LOUD ping.

[morph the cat]

poor gacha luck

So as I pray, unlimited wallet works.

[morph the cat]

I just realized that I should one day do a gacha setup where you can roll for players from the forum and gain abilities.

Ive ran both fire emblem heroes and fate grand order in a roll for your abilities style before and they were well received yeah.

[morph the cat]

@Amazons

when your heads are in the game and caught up, we'll probably be ready to toss some ideas around.

[morph the cat]

I very desperately want to call Shirou super town but I feel like he's the kind of slot that I incorrectly townread sometimes.

I like tejate/ceph/nQ/ydrasse for town so far.

And you're questioning us wanting more than 3 townreads atp?

There's very little intersection in our reads atm. Hmm.

This is not a direct comparison; I'm perfectly happy with the number of reads I have at this point. I'm specifically unhappy with not being able to trust myself on Shirou.

Regarding little intersection I assume part of that is because you're locktowning Amazons (and I'd imagine you probably are okay with other people not individually having the capacity to locktown them at this point) and at that point the expected amount of overlap between 2 people and 4 people is pretty low.

I feel like you're glossing over some reads that should be fairly easy to make, though. And I'm always going to raise an eyebrow at ceph getting early townreads from players with your level of experience. I'm not scumreading him but I've seen nothing from him that would remotely make me comfortable he's town at this point.

[morph the cat]

"experience" and "experience with me" are different animals

You two haven't played recently? Anything since dedede? Which probably shouldn't count toward his ability to read you since he was scum in that game.

[morph the cat]

I haven't played with him since dedede, and my encyclopedic memory fails me if we've played other games. I did mod a normal game where he and peng were scum, though. In...2013.

I'm not going to quell my instincts about him this game.

[morph the cat]

It’s the open acknowledgment of self-awareness coupled with his LAMIST attitude and admission of uselessness that made me suspicious of him to begin with. The part I quoted in particular stands out as pretty odd to me.

I don't hate this response. The reason I poked at it is because self-aware accusations are common easy tactics that scum use to scum read people with. It's typically a rather shallow reason to scum read people for especially considering it's more personality based than alignment based and some people are more self-aware as town than scum.

What do you think of him after your conversation this morning? (If you said, I missed it but I'm behind, so I'll see it as I catch up.

His posting just comes across rather earnest to me, and sure it has all the features you mentioned but I don't think it's coming from scum.

It was also hard to parse your side of the conversation with shirou this morning. I'm not sure if that's due to a language barrier, lack of experience or just a general talking past each other. There were a couple posts where I liked your fire or snark though, so I don't think it's intentional muddying the waters, but uh this is to preemptively say that I felt that some things got lost in translation and if I ask you a bunch of questions, I'm not trying to pick at you but trying to understand things that weren't clear.

oh yah, that concern isn't even visible in the rear view mirror at this point.

[morph the cat]

What do you mean by "solo player"?

Doesn't have a mafia PT to rely upon and is playing alone and uninformed.

[morph the cat]

so 238 essentially just says "hey look everyone i have handwritten notes" since there is no actual reason for it to exist.

this post in particular

I could definitely imagine it being town in Ceph's spot trying to pressure a questionable slot, but it's just ever so slightly too aggressive for me. like I can see where Ceph is coming from calling out that the "notes" comment is a bit LAMISTy, but it's not too hard for me to imagine a town!Tejate writing the post and thinking it might be useful, he feels genuine to me

morph (and penguin)

What did you guys think about this? Both the original post by Ceph and the analysis by Guilty Lion?

When the post hit the thread, we snorted at Ceph dusting off the Titus handwritten notes tell. And we don't think it's a valid observation in this case.

I don't really have an objection to GL's characterization of Ceph, beyond my general concern that many of his stances so far feel overblown given the data in the thread.

Also I'm gonna have to break out the benadryl if I see many more "LAMISTy" references.

[morph the cat]

I distinctly remembered me having played a scum game where I made some post, and morph absolutely shredded me over that single post and I remember feeling like, emotionally devastated over it lol.

The claws and polonium don't usually come out this early unless somebody pulls a cakez.

[morph the cat]

I fully forgot about dedede. I also fully forgot that I'd even played with Ceph before. There is one thing that I had remembered about morph and I see looking at dedede that it was in that game, which is that I distinctly remembered me having played a scum game where I made some post, and morph absolutely shredded me over that single post and I remember feeling like, emotionally devastated over it lol. Part of why I voted morph is that they felt kind of on the sidelines of this game so far which to be fair might be totally normal for them but it was in somewhat contrast to that memory.

We've been intentionally holding back a little waiting for more data from barely here slots. It's getting more difficult, though!

Though the break shot(s) was pretty weak, the balls are starting to separate on this table.

[morph the cat]

Are you willing to share any of the early townreads you believe I should have but don't, morph?

Soon-ish.

Will probably be first topic on the agenda when Amazons are caught up.

[morph the cat]

I think fua share's Sigmund's taste in cologne.

[morph the cat]

I don’t drink cologne, sorry.

That was a nod to your braggadocio.

[morph the cat]

roughly translates to "swagger"

[morph the cat]

roughly translates to "swagger"

I do have a lot of swag, but I'm afraid I'm not Sigmund.

I know! Sigmund was a Pooky alt and you are not.

[morph the cat]

This pagetop denial to catboi brought to you by the letter B.

[morph the cat]

{amazons}
{Shirou}
{fua, Tejate} -- ffery thought about having fua up one, but it's probably just all the Axe fragrance wafting through the thread
--------------
the rest of you fucks
--------------
{NSG, ydrasse}

Ydrasse because she's kinda looking like she doesn't really want to be active in the thread, and because her numberq vote looked like one of those bold moves she sometimes makes as scum, like she was hurrying to be at the front of the town parade.

NSG is also giving off thread-avoidance vibes and we're still not too thrilled with the way she threw herself in front of our comment to fua. hobnail boots, etc., though it wasn't exactly a line of questioning.

If ydrasse is scum and we're not just being paranoid, then GL's easy townread there after the dancegame becomes a point of great interest.

not enough data to make an educated guess, but kinda scum-leaning tea, and kinda townleaning imaginality

[morph the cat]

Ceph

[morph the cat]

You ran right over our reads list.

[morph the cat]

Ydrasse because she's kinda looking like she doesn't really want to be active in the thread, and because her numberq vote looked like one of those bold moves she sometimes makes as scum, like she was hurrying to be at the front of the town parade.

what exactly did you think was spicy about voting someone who a decent amount of people have floating around in their reads and what do you think about my point

weird to say "in front of the town parade" but not caring about my reasoning tbh

I thought it was spicy that you threw the vote down right after Tammy asked him a somewhat pointed question.

[morph the cat]

You ran right over our reads list.

What, am I supposed to shut up while the big kids talk about things that matter? I'm gonna do my thing.

Not at all. I figured you'd have some thoughts about it, though.

[morph the cat]

Ydrasse because she's kinda looking like she doesn't really want to be active in the thread, and because her numberq vote looked like one of those bold moves she sometimes makes as scum, like she was hurrying to be at the front of the town parade.

what exactly did you think was spicy about voting someone who a decent amount of people have floating around in their reads and what do you think about my point

weird to say "in front of the town parade" but not caring about my reasoning tbh

I thought it was spicy that you threw the vote down right after Tammy asked him a somewhat pointed question.

okay so what did you think about the comment i made about why i voted numberq

Wasn't impressed.

[morph the cat]

It seems like nQ wagon might be a popular choice for today? We should still explore our options, though.

This post gives me awful gut vibes and feels like it's supposed to go in the Scum PT.

scumslips straight out of a pt like that aren't usually a thing tbh.

We're playing with someone who leaked who scum is directly in the game thread when they were supposed to be dead. It happens.

Who are you talking about? Tejate?

[morph the cat]

Ydrasse because she's kinda looking like she doesn't really want to be active in the thread, and because her numberq vote looked like one of those bold moves she sometimes makes as scum, like she was hurrying to be at the front of the town parade.

what exactly did you think was spicy about voting someone who a decent amount of people have floating around in their reads and what do you think about my point

weird to say "in front of the town parade" but not caring about my reasoning tbh

I thought it was spicy that you threw the vote down right after Tammy asked him a somewhat pointed question.

okay so what did you think about the comment i made about why i voted numberq

Wasn't impressed.

okay so ~why~

Because I don't think his stances are nearly as dissonant as you portrayed them.

[morph the cat]

because from my pov

it feels like number is doing the like frog in boiling water heating it up slowly to end up on a shirou vote because of all the commentary/focus, it's not the only thing but it feels apparent 2 me

and then it's just like swerving around to jump onto someone else and crashing through the setup

If he's doing that, he's ignoring a growing +town sentiment around Shirou and that kinda sounds counter productive.

[morph the cat]

{amazons}
{Shirou}
{fua, Tejate} -- ffery thought about having fua up one, but it's probably just all the Axe fragrance wafting through the thread
--------------
the rest of you fucks
--------------
{NSG, ydrasse}

Ydrasse because she's kinda looking like she doesn't really want to be active in the thread, and because her numberq vote looked like one of those bold moves she sometimes makes as scum, like she was hurrying to be at the front of the town parade.

NSG is also giving off thread-avoidance vibes and we're still not too thrilled with the way she threw herself in front of our comment to fua. hobnail boots, etc., though it wasn't exactly a line of questioning.

If ydrasse is scum and we're not just being paranoid, then GL's easy townread there after the dancegame becomes a point of great interest.

not enough data to make an educated guess, but kinda scum-leaning tea, and kinda townleaning imaginality

I liked ydrasse's thread presence yesterday, and I liked that at two times - with tejate and nq - she voted just as I was thinking they were suspicious. That's a terrible take I know, but I still liked it. I know she's started posting more now, but I have a headache and I'm going to bed, so reading that other than a skim will have to wait. Vacation is over, so I need to get back on a schedule.

Both heads are suspicious of nsg. Penguin doesn't like that she said the thing about holding off on posting and then didn't post herself. That doesn't bother me so much as I didn't like the post itself, and the interactions with you regarding fua felt wrong. Like it felt like a wrist slap rather than an actual defense or figuring you out. I pondered that it was a scum/scum conversation over fua because something didn't sit right. It just didn't feel like town talking to someone whose alignment she didn't know. I was hoping there'd be more today to see if I was chasing shadows here.

Anyway, I'm going to bed. Might follow along and post again if I can't sleep, but hopefully you don't see me until tomorrow. Don't think Penguin is going to get a chance to post tonight.

I LOVED her presence yesterday and was engraving that day 3 ticket. We've both been less than impressed today and have been thinking about her scum play in a few recent games.

On the gripping hand, her reaction to our reads list didn't strike me as bad, nor did her pushback. So, there's that. We'll probably have to kick the read around further before we settle.

-------------

Regarding the cop claim, I'm gonna stare at that post for a while, shake my head, and wonder out loud why I thought joining this game was a good idea.

BF is curious why I think joining ANY mafia game is a good idea.

[morph the cat]

{amazons}
{Shirou}
{fua, Tejate} -- ffery thought about having fua up one, but it's probably just all the Axe fragrance wafting through the thread
--------------
the rest of you fucks
--------------
{NSG, ydrasse}

Ydrasse because she's kinda looking like she doesn't really want to be active in the thread, and because her numberq vote looked like one of those bold moves she sometimes makes as scum, like she was hurrying to be at the front of the town parade.

NSG is also giving off thread-avoidance vibes and we're still not too thrilled with the way she threw herself in front of our comment to fua. hobnail boots, etc., though it wasn't exactly a line of questioning.

If ydrasse is scum and we're not just being paranoid, then GL's easy townread there after the dancegame becomes a point of great interest.

not enough data to make an educated guess, but kinda scum-leaning tea, and kinda townleaning imaginality

I liked ydrasse's thread presence yesterday, and I liked that at two times - with tejate and nq - she voted just as I was thinking they were suspicious. That's a terrible take I know, but I still liked it. I know she's started posting more now, but I have a headache and I'm going to bed, so reading that other than a skim will have to wait. Vacation is over, so I need to get back on a schedule.

Both heads are suspicious of nsg. Penguin doesn't like that she said the thing about holding off on posting and then didn't post herself. That doesn't bother me so much as I didn't like the post itself, and the interactions with you regarding fua felt wrong. Like it felt like a wrist slap rather than an actual defense or figuring you out. I pondered that it was a scum/scum conversation over fua because something didn't sit right. It just didn't feel like town talking to someone whose alignment she didn't know. I was hoping there'd be more today to see if I was chasing shadows here.

Anyway, I'm going to bed. Might follow along and post again if I can't sleep, but hopefully you don't see me until tomorrow. Don't think Penguin is going to get a chance to post tonight.

I LOVED her presence yesterday and was engraving that day 3 ticket. We've both been less than impressed today and have been thinking about her scum play in a few recent games.

On the gripping hand, her reaction to our reads list didn't strike me as bad, nor did her pushback. So, there's that. We'll probably have to kick the read around further before we settle.

-------------

Regarding the cop claim, I'm gonna stare at that post for a while, shake my head, and wonder out loud why I thought joining this game was a good idea.

BF is curious why I think joining ANY mafia game is a good idea.

You have no idea how bad the last game I was in was. You also underestimate how good I am at being mislimmed.

While we think you're town, your chances of being elimmed while we're alive are pretty low.

Our reads list was a gauntlet thrown down in that regard. Not that it's particularly needed atm.

------------

^^ top shelf buddying from spayhalf.

[morph the cat]

fua's towning townily

Gave up on hot takes and slid into practically already molding stale takes eh?

[morph the cat]

why do you have nsg so high?

[morph the cat]

and implosion for that matter

[morph the cat]

Implosion's interactions with us are giving me dedede vibes, but I haven't (yet) gone back to look at his iso in that game. Insomnia struck so it might be tomorrow before I do that review.

[morph the cat]

I'm quite confident that if I had drawn scum here, 2017 meta would be not among the best indicators of how I'd play.

Noted, but I doubt you have a good handle on what I'll be looking for. And that game's a jumping off point for research.

[morph the cat]

Ah, also I guess unless they're scum together (which wouldn't be that weird considering their openings), I should probably trust Morph read on Amazon for now. Even if they were wrong on it at the moment, as long as they are alive they will likely correctly sort out Amazon correctly. If they die...well, we can cross that bridge when we get there.

For what it's worth, it's a very high confidence read for us. I'll be very surprised if they leave our "Utterly Town, never elim this" pile. We'd love to have 4 more reads of that strength, or even four more in that plus the second tier combined before the day ends.

fua's headed in that direction.

[morph the cat]

morph/amazon are both underwhelming and could both be scum. come at me.

but i have a lot of fish to fry. maybe i should try harder to fry them since morph doesn't seem to be doing that for me.

To quote Cobra Kai, you're a towel.

Maybe you're a town towel, but I have an awful lot of memories of scum-you casting various aspersions on me/my hydrae over the years.

[morph the cat]

morph/amazon are both underwhelming and could both be scum. come at me.

but i have a lot of fish to fry. maybe i should try harder to fry them since morph doesn't seem to be doing that for me.

To quote Cobra Kai, you're a towel.

Maybe you're a town towel, but I have an awful lot of memories of scum-you casting various aspersions on me/my hydrae over the years.

yet you also get leery if i townbin you! my recollection is that i usually townbin you (ffery) as scum. but it's not solely because suspecting you is a waste of time

i've given you time but it's been 30 pages and i'm still decidedly whelmed

Xenosaga day 1 probably looms largest in my memory. That was Sangres, but I was the active head for most of the game. In the referenced dedede game it was at least a few game days before you were townreading us. That was an easy game for us because Tammy towntold your hydra slot before she left you holding the bag at the end of day 1.

fwiw open setups are neither of our cups a tea, and this player list is also mostly off our beaten paths. I'm more interested in observing than in making huge waves atm. Despite griping, I'm not unhappy with 3 (probably 4 because I imagine Cabd's going to agree with me re fua in our next discussion) in my top two tiers.

And I kinda doubt we get through enough nights to be on anyone's mega-worry list on day 1.

[morph the cat]

yes good go retreat to your hydra lair to discuss how to handle an UPPITY cephrir

that's right the peasants are getting UPPITY

If you expect instant replies from me today and probably this week, you are doomed to disappointment.

[morph the cat]

Amazon consists of one person who's in back to school mode as a college instructor and the other is going back to work after a couple weeks off.

Despite that, I really can't overemphasize how strong that read is. We are both townreading Tammy, and I'm fairly sure I wouldn't be that certain that quickly if she were scum here.

And neuterhalf's townread of peng is in the stratosphere. I think I would be townreading her on my own, but I doubt I'm capable of being

that

sure of a peng townread on my own.

[morph the cat]

Can you elaborate on your high conf TR here? Skimmed your ISO but I don't think I saw anything to this effect, and based on your familiarity with each other I suspect it's mostly meta.

It is mostly meta, and a lot of it is classified because we generally don't go into details about meta reads unless we're willing to burn a meta tell. That's particularly true of neuterhalf.

Anyway, I'm done talking about that townread. Those of you not townreading them, you can at least take that read to the bank in the event our alignment becomes a known thing in this game.

[morph the cat]

i don't suppose you have any interest in sharing the reasons for that with the class

Nope!

[morph the cat]

though I think there are a couple of pointers in our iso the discerning can find.

[morph the cat]

I haven't knowingly played with NSG in ages. I remember her playing in a game or two or two I modded in the 2017-2018 timeframe.

Does anyone know: Is her activity here typical? Does she usually not post much on weekends? Is there a timeframe during days when she's more active? I know she's in the UK. Maybe she works during the day.

[morph the cat]

I'm kinda liking Ceph's push on us. Though I kinda hate the idea of actually having a townread there so early.

We're thinking about nuking red tea.

[morph the cat]

I don't think morph's 753 tracks with the meta read claim. If open games aren't either of your cups of tea, then idk how you're getting such a strong meta read in this open game as to put them in the "forever town" category. I play differently enough in the different queues (or at least I think I do) that I'd consider it difficult for someone to meta me THAT strongly across them.

idk though, feels like that thought is meshing with Ceph because of 766 and that gives me pause. Maybe I'm paranoid

The game type makes little difference in the kind of meta I analyze and I feel that's the case for Cabd, too. And I don't think either Tammy or Peng are much more into open games than we are. We're reading them a meta lens on the basis of their interactions with us and with other players.

Why is setup type a big factor to you in meta? Big enough that you wouldn't consider deep experience with a player because of setup type?

[morph the cat]

*through* a meta lens

[morph the cat]

I haven't knowingly played with NSG in ages. I remember her playing in a game or two or two I modded in the 2017-2018 timeframe.

Does anyone know: Is her activity here typical? Does she usually not post much on weekends? Is there a timeframe during days when she's more active? I know she's in the UK. Maybe she works during the day.

I don't know information that specific about her schedule but she does have a more irregular sort of activity recently as far as I know compared to 2017~2018. I haven't kept up with her games recently but someone mentioned her slot being miseliminated in a not distant time frame from now and also one of the last games I played with her, her slot was under a lot of fire for not being "very active" from the start, but she was town anyway.

I think it's hard for her to have the same activity levels she had back in 2017~2018 nowadays, so some of the "tells" people use based on her activity aren't very accurate/updated, but at the same time if at some point considerably later on her contributions towards solving the game are still too lackluster, she's probably scum in my opinion yes.

My personal philosophy when playing with NSG is kinda...just leave her be/let her do her own thing for awhile. Then afterwards you stop and take a good look on what she did.

Thanks. This is helpful.

I don't think our read changes there without data, but having reasonable expectations of her activity is good.

[morph the cat]

if i could be assured non-janky normals, i would play those.

mood

[morph the cat]

My take is that we shouldn't lim any of the inactive slots today. This isn't a game suffering for activity, so unless we think all 3 scum are lurking then I don't see an upside to basing wagons on activity.

Counterpoint: 2020 scum teams still exist two years later.

[morph the cat]

if i could be assured non-janky normals, i would play those.

mood

Something something made your own with blackjack something something.

[morph the cat]

A "2020 scumteam" is a mafia faction that rolls over and dies due to analytical paralysis and inability to keep up.

It's been seen quite a bit on site over the past few years.

[morph the cat]

I don't think morph's 753 tracks with the meta read claim. If open games aren't either of your cups of tea, then idk how you're getting such a strong meta read in this open game as to put them in the "forever town" category. I play differently enough in the different queues (or at least I think I do) that I'd consider it difficult for someone to meta me THAT strongly across them.

idk though, feels like that thought is meshing with Ceph because of 766 and that gives me pause. Maybe I'm paranoid

The game type makes little difference in the kind of meta I analyze and I feel that's the case for Cabd, too. And I don't think either Tammy or Peng are much more into open games than we are. We're reading them a meta lens on the basis of their interactions with us and with other players.

Why is setup type a big factor to you in meta? Big enough that you wouldn't consider deep experience with a player because of setup type?

It was really the assuredness of the read that pinged me. It's not that I wouldn't consider it at all, just find it odd that you'd lock it down so hard when there are plenty of dependent variables that could be affecting meta. Or maybe I mean independent variables, I'm not a scientist lol

I feel that

knowing exactly what roles and mechanics

are in the setup drastically alters my way of thinking compared to not knowing, such as in a theme or something. It's possible that's not the case for everyone though, I guess.

Hence my not going out of my way to play open games. I'm a predominantly reads-based player and I like the mystery and creativity of closed theme setups. Until the mechanics start to matter to

me

, my reads aren't going be heavily affected by mechanics.

[morph the cat]

I feel like that happened in the Trust Fall game I modded a little bit ago. What makes that the better route to take when deciding wagons on D1 though?

It's just that I don't want people going "Oh scum HAS to have a plan and isn't just sitting back while town talks it out" because that... happens fairly often.

I can cite like at least 5 different town stomps that all fit that pattern from the bright ages of after sproglet was born.

[morph the cat]

you do call it a townread too i guess so i guess it's just a townread with reservations. i may just be prickly about the concept of passes.

day 3 pass on my part has to do with becoming a puddle of paranoid goo on day 3. 4 at the latest.

nearly every day 1 townread needs a serious redo by then usually anyway.

[morph the cat]

Peng, scum game i mentioned was a mini normal in 2013. I can look it up when I'm not on tablet and pretending sleep might happen. I think "winter" was in the title.

[morph the cat]

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=48518

[morph the cat]

I feel like crap (tested negative today though), so I'm not sure how much I'm going to get done today before I pretend to play D&D in a bit. I've skimmed a little while at work, but I did want to be a bit self-indulgent and address something first.

Implosion - Yes, you used to be able to town bin me super early. Like pretty much within my first couple of posts.

Ceph - I know you want more from me and probably expect something different too.

I'm sorry (and not sorry) that I'm not as easy to read as I used to be. I'm not the same in real life person I was 6 months ago, let alone the same mafia player I was years ago. I can't be that emotionally invested or play with the same devotion or intensity I used to play with. It sucked. I was a triggered mess who wasn't pleasant in the game or out of the game a lot of the time, and getting that invested affected my real life negatively. I took a several year break, and when I came back I decided the only way I could play mafia is if I don't get so invested that it impacts my life, and I have to not care so much about being townread or being non-miselimable. (And having a good number of people tell me their goal was to be the first person to hand me my first true miselim caused massive paranoia all the time.).

I have failed at that a couple times, but I am working towards playing the game in a way that works for me and is fun. I know that makes me harder to read if you were dependent on the other stuff, and I'm sorry about that. But,

if you read me based on how I look at the game and people, a lot of that hasn't changed

. I imagine I'll do more as the game progresses that will be satisfactory, but I've never been much of a first half of day one player.

And if you're like oh Tammy that's easy to say, I do have recent games. My most recent game is the Trust Fall game that NumberQ modded a few months ago. And I'm not saying you have to townread me because my recent games look like this; I'm just saying adjust your expectations because I'm not the same as I used to be. I am town here though, and maybe if you're lucky you'll get to see what a travesty my game will be when I finally roll scum again lol.

To the point about only interacting with morph or whatever ceph said, and shirou's comment about dancing around morph, sure there was some early interaction that was a lot, but I've interacted with most people here, so I'm not real sure what that point was about.

I agree with the bolded. It's worked pretty well for me so far in our recent games.

Since I came back from hiatus a little over a year ago I think this is the 4rd game I've played with Tammy. She's said something like this in prior games and that's how she's played.

Regarding our page 1-2 clash, Tammy's and my interaction was about what I expect. I think I get to a townread before she does, but I probably hand out townreads more easily than she does in general. There's actually someone on this site who is more paranoid than I am!

Peng's post did not strike me as well as Tammy's hence my comment about BoP going both ways. I feel like Peng is probably as good at reading Cabd as he is at reading her. Maybe she doesn't get there quite as quickly as he does? But if there's something off, he tends to catch it early and hold onto that until he's satisfied.

There was a bizarre and awful game that I should probably stop bringing up, but in that game Peng, Cabd and I were all three in solo slots (it was a no-hydra game). I townread her quite strongly and spent my first night action protecting her (unnecessarily as it turned out). Cabd was squinty-eyed and brought up the possibility she was 3rd party ON DAY ONE. He was correct. The game had three 3rd parties, all of whom could townside and all of whom did.

So, yeah. maybe the BoP is a ~little~ heavier on us to get them right than the other direction, but it does go both ways. Anyway I expected/expect them to get us right, and I'm ok with where their read is at right now.

[morph the cat]

If ydrasse is scum and we're not just being paranoid, then GL's easy townread there after the dancegame becomes a point of great interest.

I think this is kinda backwards, wouldn't me easily townreading Ydrasse be more suspicious if she is town? Why would I hand out a barely-explained, easy townread to a buddy? I feel like a broken record repeatedly saying I don't do weak interactions with my buddies, I generally want to go to great lengths to look like I'm either disassociated by way of buddying them or disassociated by way of fighting with them.

I'm still meh about that read, so dealwithit.

What do you see as significantly different about her play here vs the first couple calendar days of that game? And why is any difference +town?

[morph the cat]

What do you see as significantly different about her play here vs the first couple calendar days of that game? And why is any difference +town?

I don't think it's fair to contrast this game with that game too much because the setups are so different, first phase of dance game is all about getting a dance partner and it's a lot harder to really vote/pressure scumreads, especially as a lady

but I will say the difference I'm seeing is that Ydrasse seems genuinely a lot more invested in parsing out people's mindset behind their takes, I liked that she challenged me on the early conclusion I drew about your hydra having a townier opening than AL, I like that she's digging into numberQ's commentary on Shirou. It's not an ironclad reason to locktown Ydrasse, like she's certainly a capable scum player, but overall the sense I get from her scum game - especially how she played Dance - is that she leans heavily on appearing tonally town, chill vibes, wanting to seem like she's not too survivalist or too tryhard, etc, whereas I get the sense the purpose of her posts so far here is less about being

perceived

any kind of way and more doing real digging into things she doesn't like or doesn't understand. All this is D1 with no flips so heavy grain of salt, but that's the distinction I'm feeling

From my spectating of the dance game (and from the first Guardians of the Fortress game where she ruled as scum), she'll make big bold moves as scum. See her quick jump into the Keep in Guardians, and her taly-acceptance in dancegame.

Her vote on numbers kinda gave me that vibe, which is why I was pushing her earlier. The red-alert feel has dissipated, though.

Maybe what I pick up on isn't a channel you read people by and vice versa. We definitely locked horns a LOT in the dedede game.

[morph the cat]

Her vote on numbers kinda gave me that vibe, which is why I was pushing her earlier. The red-alert feel has dissipated, though.

I think probably a disconnect here is I don't see the numbers vote as an especially Big Move. I do feel you on her liking a big play, but I think the end goal of those big plays is again to

be townread

, I don't get the same vibe from her here. though I can understand your perspective, if you think that vote is likely to be townread then I can see the thought process

I think those moves are about more than being townread, though. They're tactical. Maybe strategic sometimes. Her taly accept felt a little too in the moment and based on sensing an opportunity to me. And that was the feel l got from the timing of her numbers vote, because it came right after a player with substantial gravitas (who I was townreading) gave the impression of having concern about numbers.

[morph the cat]

Anyway, that's basically a footnote now, and not a bottom of the pile read.

[morph the cat]

Town: {fua, Shirou, Amazonian Legends, Tejate Raichu, Ydrasse}
Town Enough For Now: {Cephrir, implosion, morph}
Needs More Data: {NSG}
Would Lim: {numbersQ}
Would Lim With No Mercy: {redtea, imaginality}

does it bother you at all that this is also approximately what you'd get if you sorted the PL by charisma (tejate being the main exception)? This is something I've been thinking about a lot more lately.

How would you have ranked charisma to alignment in your last large theme game?

[morph the cat]

the one you modded, I mean.

[morph the cat]

I'm just really offput by implosion for some reason. Can't quite put my finger on it.

[morph the cat]

I think it comes down to getting no sense he's actually trying to figure us out.

[morph the cat]

Town: {fua, Shirou, Amazonian Legends, Tejate Raichu, Ydrasse}
Town Enough For Now: {Cephrir, implosion, morph}
Needs More Data: {NSG}
Would Lim: {numbersQ}
Would Lim With No Mercy: {redtea, imaginality}

does it bother you at all that this is also approximately what you'd get if you sorted the PL by charisma (tejate being the main exception)? This is something I've been thinking about a lot more lately.

How would you have ranked charisma to alignment in your last large theme game?

You would think since that game was so easy that the scumteams would be full of low charisma players, but they actually weren't. It's a charismatic playerlist overall, but aside from WhemeStar and Reiuji I would say they're all around the middle of the road on a relative basis.

I think they mostly were having relatively low charisma games, though, regardless of however they usually play.

[morph the cat]

I think it comes down to getting no sense he's actually trying to figure us out.

Does it matter if I figure you out right now? It's not like people would ever be on board limming you today. Can't I just be content with my vague suspicion that has a significant chance of being resolved via you being nightkilled?

I feel like I ~do~ need to figure you out, because I doubt nightkills get to you anytime soon and my shelf life is usually pretty short. I just haven't found the kind of threads I like to pull. Maybe my head will be more in this tomorrow.

[morph the cat]

I think there are probably a couple players at this table who could figure my alignment simply from the my vibe about carrying the hydra.

[morph the cat]

I think there are probably a couple players at this table who could figure my alignment simply from the my vibe about carrying the hydra.

Do you consider yourself a good scum player?

Good enough. But, playing in this hydra with a scary-ass scum player I get needy and irritable about driving. I don't think players who aren't familiar with my play would pick that up, but it's there.

[morph the cat]

Or at least like, I don't want to rock any boats unless I feel like I have a read that

actually

has any substance to it and is not just some read I found on the ground somewhere, as my reads usually are.

do you consider voting me a boat-rock?

I consider it a desperate attempt to make someone have more than two simultaneous votes.

I don't understand what you mean by this?

[morph the cat]

I can't go in-depth on why but I'm actually reconsidering Tejate at the moment.

He's back to the "I want to see more from" pool except this time I think I can sort him better than the almost coin-flip read I had on him up to now (part of me before thinking he was towny for X and the other one thinking he was scummy for Y).

I see he's made a dozen or so posts since then. Are you still mid-reconsideration or have you come to a conclusion (for now)?

How are your reads from your first list holding up?

[morph the cat]

i am cute and charismatic in every game i play, ever, even if it's not appreciated

who would you say are the player(s) here that read you the best? It's fine to mention multiple people.

and out of those people here that you feel to be decent at reading you, do you think any of them are truly good at it?

uhhh

i don’t think anyone is super good at reading me here actually but guiltylion just nabbed me as scum in the last game we played

like morph saying i go for a big play is right even if they’re not applying what i would do as a big play correctly

other than that i think cephrir is the only one that i’ve played with more than once

but no ones like really good at it here yet

I don't think you really understand what set my alarm off and why, based on the above post. But, I tend toward the short and simple to start with.

I knew that the vote that set off my alarm was definitionally not a big play in any form, not just in terms of what I've seen of the kinds of big plays that you have done. But, there's not room in this setup to give opportunities for big plays of the sort you did in Guardians and Dance Game at least not early on. I mean you could claim something, like fua did, but I don't think doing that has the same kind of impact.

One of the features of your big plays is contextual timing IMO. And it was the contextual timing aspect of that vote that reminded me of your big plays that I've witnessed.

[morph the cat]

it felt like a lead brick being dropped

More like "shat out" than dropped~

[morph the cat]

Maybe because given the rest of the ISO I was looking for something that resembled a willingness to engage?

This is why I started the day out with an open-ended question for him about something besides mechanics. Our approaches differ a little!

[morph the cat]

This purely reactive post makes me think you're caught up and perfectly happy with the game state / not doing anything.

<3

[morph the cat]

Wanna know the best part of locktowning Tammyguin, Ceph?

My you-read is outsourced to somebody better at it!

[morph the cat]

I'll listen if they disagree, but I've come around to a townlean on ceph.

[morph the cat]

@Imaginality

I can't go in-depth on why but I'm actually reconsidering Tejate at the moment.

He's back to the "I want to see more from" pool except this time I think I can sort him better than the almost coin-flip read I had on him up to now (part of me before thinking he was towny for X and the other one thinking he was scummy for Y).

I see he's made a dozen or so posts since then. Are you still mid-reconsideration or have you come to a conclusion (for now)?

How are your reads from your first list holding up?

[morph the cat]

If you guys stop forcefully engaging Imaginality I think I can read him over the course of the day

I don't think that asking lots of stuff to low activity posters is something positive in

at least

70 ~ 80% of the cases. What they decide to reply and post if no one is giving them directions in-thread (like with minor questions, etc), is a rather important form of reading them I believe.

I think this is an unrealistic expectation of other players who are also trying to sort him.

[morph the cat]

I'm quite confident that if I had drawn scum here, 2017 meta would be not among the best indicators of how I'd play.

I'm finding one scum game of yours since the dedede game. Is that right or am I overlooking some?

[morph the cat]

I'll say that I didn't expect my one (1) game with fua to be helpful but page 16 is telling me everyone would benefit from skimming one of their town games if one is studying-inclined

How are you leaning re fua on page 16? and which town game are you referencing?

[morph the cat]

What Tejate said. And Morph is a very dangerous scum player. They deserve more wariness that 990 seems to indicate you're affording them, and I believe they would agree with this.

I agree that half of Morph is a very dangerous scum player!

Pooky would agree with your statement fully though (Cabd pays him to big up my scum game).

[morph the cat]

What Tejate said. And Morph is a very dangerous scum player. They deserve more wariness that 990 seems to indicate you're affording them, and I believe they would agree with this.

I agree that half of Morph is a very dangerous scum player!

Pooky would agree with your statement fully though (Cabd pays him to big up my scum game).

What I've skimmed of your scum game instilled fear in me.

If true, then I think it says more about your towngame than about my scumgame.

[morph the cat]

I'm quite confident that if I had drawn scum here, 2017 meta would be not among the best indicators of how I'd play.

I'm finding one scum game of yours since the dedede game. Is that right or am I overlooking some?

This

feels

extremely false but i have only found one (guns n roses) though i haven't looked very hard. To be frank I really can't accurately chronologize my recent games given, y'know, time is fake lately - it certainly doesn't

feel

like I've only played one scum game in the past 4+ years though.

I might just not really know how I'd play if I drew mafia at this point.

I didn't find guns and roses! I found a guardians game where you were scum with T3 and S_S.

I'll have a look at that game too.

[morph the cat]

It is mostly meta, and a lot of it is classified because we generally don't go into details about meta reads unless we're willing to burn a meta tell. That's particularly true of neuterhalf.

I uh, actually, this one isn't classified she knows what it is but hasn't had enough time to reverse-engineer and weaponize it IMO.

[morph the cat]

And Morph is a very dangerous scum player.

I'd like to cite dandelion wine existing to shove this back in ceph's face~

Most of this player list is proven to have a nasty scumgame. The others have it but haven't proven it yet.

It's just the baseline expectation and insert unwnd's ranting about scumteams that make it easy here.

[morph the cat]

Not Voting (6): imaginality, morph the cat, redtea, Tejate Raichu, Ydrasse, Shirou

hot take, not voting makes people harder to solve and gives less content to read them off of than the spectrum of activity/inactivity

I'd like everyone not voting to explain in their next post if they'd be willing to vote redtea and why or why not

I am not of the voteliness is next to godliness school of mafia thought. And I've rubbed off on Neuterhalf. I don't vote until I want to see a single specific player eliminated. I may change my mind, and I may compromise late in a game day.

Our bottom tiers look like this right now:

{implosion, imaginality, numbers}
{NSG, redtea}

redtea's posts have been low-content for the most part and when he answers questions the answers don't really satisfy. For instance, he made a statement about fua's alignment being easily discerned with some meta reference, but nothing about that post indicated his read of fua, which gives him tons of wiggle room when someone (quite possibly me) comes back with an opinion.

NSG's initial content was unimpressive and low quantity though pleasant. I'm keeping an open mind on the slot, but that's where she currently sits wrt to everyone who's posted more content.

[morph the cat]

@morph is this about me not responding to your question about my current fua read you posited *checks watch* 8 hours ago

You posted again a few hours after I asked the question without answering it. That's is of more concern to me than how many hours since I asked.

And you still haven't answered it.

[morph the cat]

And regardless of when or if you get around to my question, my point stands that you didn't actually take a stance on fua in your post about his meta.

[morph the cat]

Apologies. I'll do better...

[morph the cat]

NSG's initial content was unimpressive and low quantity though pleasant. I'm keeping an open mind on the slot, but that's where she currently sits wrt to everyone who's posted more content.

i won't dispute that what i've said in this game so far has been mostly low-stakes and not particularly insightful, but seeing the word "unimpressive" makes me think that your expectations might be a little off – i wouldn't expect to be impressed by me. to be clear, i'm not trying to preemptively excuse nonparticipation or weak content or whatever, i'm just saying that if you have the expectation of me as someone who's going to "solve the game" or whatever (as some people still do), i think that you should modulate that expectation down, so to speak. i think that that would probably make the game a better experience for both of us.

anyways, i got sidetracked earlier after my latest post, still reading through the thread but felt i should say that.

I don't think I have high expectations. I don't expect you to "solve the game".

I look forward to your catch-up.

[morph the cat]

I'm here.

I'm absorbing atm.

My read of implosion is really frustrating. I feel strongly something's off with him, but it's so hard pinpoint/find words.

[morph the cat]

morph, not sure why you think that i'm in the UK. if it's because i sometimes stay up until 5 AM in any american time zone playing mafia, that's just a thing that i (used to) do!!!

I don't know why I have the impression, but I've had it forever. :/

I'll attempt to adjust to the idea you're not.

[morph the cat]

I'm here.

I'm absorbing atm.

My read of implosion is really frustrating. I feel strongly something's off with him, but it's so hard pinpoint/find words.

Do you think any of this has anything to do with me scumreading you, or is it 100% unrelated?

I don't think so. Pretty sure I was bugged before you expressed that. I think it probably has more to do with having suspected and even voted you at times in the dedede game I just didn't have certainty and conviction, and I don't want to make that mistake again here.

[morph the cat]

I don't think so. Pretty sure I was bugged before you expressed that. I think it probably has more to do with having suspected and even voted you at times in the dedede game I just didn't have certainty and conviction, and I don't want to make that mistake again here.

In dedede you had very specific things you nailed me on, or at least one, if I remember. Like I mentioned there was a single post you shredded me over that I immediately regretted making.

Right, and I didn't hang on to that read. And I wouldn't expect you to make that kind of misstep again, probably ever, but definitely not playing with us.

And, in that game I think we were well beyond 40 pages when that exchange occurred.

Your playstyle feels very similar here in some ways.

You're not going to convince me that this entirely an exercise of jumping at shadows. If I come to that conclusion it will on my own.

[morph the cat]

And I wouldn't expect you to make that kind of misstep again, probably ever, but definitely not playing with us.

The specific reason that that moment left such an impression on me is that I remember thinking that that post was good. And then it got shredded. It's not like there is a specific type of mistake inherent to that post that I categorized and now am Always Sure to Avoid as scum :s. If anything, the easiest misstep to categorize from that that I would avoid committing as scum is... scumreading you, probably. And well.

In ctrl+f'ing my name in your iso in that game I did find one other interesting piece which was this (of course, old meta, not reliable):

I reread parts of the Swag mini normal which was the most recent game I've played with Implosion. He seems significantly different this game. Bigger posts here, and yet with somehow less assertiveness, humor, and interactiveness.

which I think very much was a bad habit of mine as scum back in the way-before. I guess I would need to look at the guardians of the fortress game I played recently to see the degree to which I have shaken it but I feel like this description very clearly separates my play here from my play in dedede, and so you saying my playstyle here feels similar in some ways makes me want to ask what those ways were because I feel my playstyle then and my playstyle now, at least the alignment-indicative parts of them, are miles apart. Or maybe I'm actually being humorless and unassertive this game, which is possible i suppose but ceph said I was charismatic and I'm still riding that high so you can't hurt me too much.

I'm still reading through the dedede game, and in the Guardians of the Fortress game I was actually looking for specific behaviors in the mafia thread because I had a theory.

I have neither proven nor disproven the theory atm.

[morph the cat]

One of my first observations of Implosion's play in the dedede game where he was scum.

Subject: Mini 1932: Dedede Fusion Collab (FIN)

Implosions initial posts, especially when he was calling out OT had this combination of assertiveness and townhunting that I remember from earlier games. And I kinda liked that he went at Nacho, who isn't the easiest target in this player list.

I'm going to review some old games. I think he told me that a game I modded was his most recent scum game. And that game was in like 2014 or early 2015 iirc.

I was townreading scum-him at that point game, and feel like here I've been scumreading him at an equivalent point in this game.

Townhunting hasn't really stood out to me, but I could just be missing it. This is a less familiar player list, and it's made finding a stake in the ground more difficult. Maybe when TammyPeng have more time/energy for the game.

I might pull up one or two more posts from that game as I read it if they're helpful.

[morph the cat]

I would still really like to hear why exactly they believe they can't say their thoughts on my slot yet.

because I'm looking for a specific behavior from you in order to read you, and if I tell you that before I've a read on you, it's basically useless as you could purposefully try to do it even if you're scum. When someone is aware of what and how you're reading them, it's no longer an effective way to do it most of the time.

do you have a backup plan?

[morph the cat]

Hey slow down. We've got a lot of catchup to do tonight.

[morph the cat]

Also my cat puked all over my bed. How's everyone else's night going?

I've been groggy as all hell today. I'm reading right now, but have a grocery order that's going to be ready for curbside probably in the next hour sometime.

[morph the cat]

and the only thing that bugs me about shirou was a feeling of a sense of urgency after nsg signaled the paranoia siren.

you aren't wrong

it was an opportunity to get some reads on people by seeing how they would react to that when most of them had me as a solid town read.

I got a better read on Ceph and Implo because of what NSG did, I think.

However it was also...kinda just coincidence? stuff like redtea wagon and now imaginality wagon began to happen just right after that, and it was stuff I felt like I should react to so I did?

I...wouldn't really feel that much "urgency" just because NSG said that no? Sure maybe people would tone down on their town reads on me, but it wasn't like they would just drop it completely. There was no real "emergency" in my situation, no one other than implo/NSG had any suspicious on me before the recent events like the redtea defense and ?maybe? now my vote on imaginality.

I've filed NSG's caution in the "do some research" to-do list, and in the meanwhile will take your stances with a grain of salt.

[morph the cat]

Can't speak for spay entirely but neuter half returned to work after a 12 day vacation and it's been extremely busy, and has a two year old toddler who is going through a new life stage that needs a lot more attention.

It's just a matter of finding time in the cracks.

[morph the cat]

and the only thing that bugs me about shirou was a feeling of a sense of urgency after nsg signaled the paranoia siren.

you aren't wrong

it was an opportunity to get some reads on people by seeing how they would react to that when most of them had me as a solid town read.

I got a better read on Ceph and Implo because of what NSG did, I think.

However it was also...kinda just coincidence? stuff like redtea wagon and now imaginality wagon began to happen just right after that, and it was stuff I felt like I should react to so I did?

I...wouldn't really feel that much "urgency" just because NSG said that no? Sure maybe people would tone down on their town reads on me, but it wasn't like they would just drop it completely. There was no real "emergency" in my situation, no one other than implo/NSG had any suspicious on me before the recent events like the redtea defense and ?maybe? now my vote on imaginality.

I've filed NSG's caution in the "do some research" to-do list, and in the meanwhile will take your stances with a grain of salt.

that's kinda the towny reply I wanted to see, I feel like even if you both are busy and may not have a lot of time, you like to "do some research", but I didn't feel you immediately thought of it this way, and waited until now when more people have shown suspicious towards me to say it.

In contrast, Ceph immediately called attention to it and even correctly (in my opinion) wondered how anyone could have posted in the game after NSG's cautionary words but not have commented it.

What you're doing here is the correct reaction from a town!morph pov but it feels delayed. Is there any other reason it was delayed?

(@NSG this is what I was waiting them to post, because if I said I did scum read them, of course they would more likely than not also show more paranoia of me as either alignment, however as scum here as long as I didn't suspect them, they would perhaps just keep town reading me in mostly the same way)

It's delayed because when I first read it I wanted to roll it around in my head some. I had NSG at the bottom of my reads list before she came back put some content down.

You can believe or not or fake it or whatever, but I have been way too exhausted to get back to this game until the last hour or so.

I'm not going to have much else to say besides "nya" or a question or two until I'm fully caught up and have processed the last few pages. Hopefully neuterhalf will be equally caught up by then.

[morph the cat]

It's fine, take your time morph.

Also, gonna drop this brick here before leaving.

[] - town read
[Amazonian*, fua**, Ydrasse] - town lean
[redtea¹, Implosion, Ceph, NSG] - null town
[NQ] - null
[Tejate, GL] - null scum
[Morph] - scum lean
[Imaginality] - scum read

Notes:
* = Conditional of Morph/Amazonian not being scum together. Trusting Morph's read on the slot.
** = eh not explaining yet
¹ = I had redtea as a town lean but I don't like their most recent post so they're back to nulltown. Still feel decent on my read on them though, kinda.



goodnight thread

Why are your trusting our read of Amazons while scumleaning us?

[morph the cat]

Alright, I'm back. Are the two hydrae still online by any chance?

Im eating dinner but my phone still works sure. Spay is back at a kbm afaik.

[morph the cat]

yah I'm back.

[morph the cat]

nsg: how would you characterize your nullreads in terms of having seen things that sway you both ways on them, vs having read a lot of their posts and feeling like you haven't found anything concretely alignment indicative, vs not having enough material to sort through, etc?

ah, the "no evidence to suggest X" question. shirou is the only one there that's "swayed both ways", GL and ceph are "haven't seen anything concretely AI". redtea and imaginality are sort of that as well, but sort of in-between that and "not enough material". to be honest, i don't actually remember any redtea or imaginality posts, only vague impressions of their playstyles. i don't really know what that says about their alignments, if anything.

How well do you know GL and ceph as players?

I'm curious what the activity since your last post does to your null pile.

[morph the cat]

I took an edible to help myself sleep so I apologize in advance if I'm less than coherent and you honestly should just talk to spay she's the cooler conversationalist anyways.

I'm just good at firing up yard machinery. She brews a mean cuppa otoh.

[morph the cat]

My cat is now laying on the bed snoring and feeling no shame about puking all over it earlier. NO APOLOGIES!

One of mine is circling the empty dinner plate that once contained chicken like a shark smelling blood in the water.

The other two are smarter than that. Barely in Penny's case.

[morph the cat]

I think there are probably a couple players at this table who could figure my alignment simply from the my vibe about carrying the hydra.

I was actually thinking about this earlier, and your play as ffery vs. morph. I don't think I've ever seen morph!scum, but I know enough to know that your hydra has a meta that is independent (sorta) from your mains. And there have been a few things you've said that as ffery I think I'd have a stronger town read on you than I do, but as morph I wonder if they count as much.

I don't know if that makes much sense, but I was weighing the carrying of the hydra bit and how much it should factor into my read.

Takijg this as a chance to wax poetic.

We do have a different meta but individual tells are (mostly) still valid. The way to read morph is kind of supposed to have been hidden but then Ffery just gave away the farm.

It's about her attitude at potentially being dead weight.


Then again that's also one of the ways to read the head of your hydra that is my wife. Is she at all feeling self aware and worried about letting a known team down? Or is she unsure who her team is so head down and just nose to grindstone?

[morph the cat]

The other way to read penguin being her word CHOICE not so much the actual contents of the post. She tends to be slightly more explainy and uses bigger words.

[morph the cat]

(sidenote @morph: found another scumgame while looking for the above that's still quite old but more recent than that other one and probably a little meta-relevant here)

Thanks.

My homework pile is getting silly high. :/

I decided to read dedede front to back at least day 1 (for now). I'm on page 70.

I think it was a worthwhile effort, though staying up to 2 am or so probably contributed to feeling like crap today.

My takeaway from dedede day 1 is that you were overly reluctant to give many reads that day, and to some extent (not entirely -- you did take a run at us at one point) you went after LHF. Also there was a bounce your step that I think came from having a fun scumteam and a very fun mafia pt.

Here, you're more srsbsns and you're definitely making reads public. And your reads seem more nuanced and developed here than they were in that game.

I'm still thinking about what 4 years should mean in terms of meta-trajectory, and using myself/neuterhalf as a sort of yardstick in that respect, for good or ill.

[morph the cat]

Oh and please for the love of Arceus don't town read me just for high posting. I have and absolutely would fake this sort of thing as Mafia.

[morph the cat]

Well, since I have engaged little with either of you (AL/morph) I would like to start discussion with my reads on you. I think I know where to categorize you two now, give me a minute to write down a proper post.

Minutes more like eons.

I wanna engage before crash but you're not back so :~/

Pedit wow timing