Open 842: Diffusion of Power [Postgame]

[morph the cat]

Right, sure, and I've got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

Do as you like, I can't stop you, but don't be surprised when you join Wake88.

[morph the cat]

Little rude? Not even close.

You're throwing a tantrum and invoking a fake mechanical reason for a read you're extremely sure of because you're to cowardly to argue it without; in a way that is going to stifle discussion on the day.

[morph the cat]

We've already been through this town claims a fake guilty on us bullshit with Wake88.

It's not going to end well for you, either.

[morph the cat]

Just warning, i will turn on Fua if this is "Gambit" and morph flips town, and i don't care about reason.

Oh hey look it's the exact consequences of the action that I'm literally begging you to avoid by coming clean.

My wife died after protecting this bullshit :/

[morph the cat]

[tweet][/tweet]

My piece has been said. If Morph flips town after we talk eliminate me tomorrow.

If you are town, and you're pulling this shit, you will lose more than this game.

You'll lose the respect of every town player in this game.

I even consider the possibility you're town because the first time anyone faked a guilty on me it was chucklefuck town.

[morph the cat]

Good thing it's not a fake claim.

Liar.

[morph the cat]

It just seems very unlikely to me that a real cop would lie about their result, but apparently it's happened before with Wake88.

Wake faked the guilty on me, spayhalf, in 2013. He's still blacklisted.

The only way fua comes out of this game with a shred of respect is if they're scum faking a guilty. If they're town, which I suspect, then the payment is un-erasable contempt.

[morph the cat]

If fua is lying and doesn't retract their guilty result before the end of Day 3, I'll move to policy lim them.

Oh hey look it's the exact consequences of the action that I'm literally begging you to avoid by coming clean.

[morph the cat]

Good morning. This topic of contention is dreadfully boring, so I'll say this. If fua is lying and doesn't retract their guilty result before the end of Day 3, I'll move to policy lim them. We good on that whole WIFOM debate now? Cause fua is almost certainly town and an investigation on morph makes sense.

Onto topics I actually find interesting to discuss at length, I may need to do some re-working of my reads. If morph flips red, at least one of implo and Shirou actually came up with that not very good reason to townread redtea on their own, as opposed to something thrown around in scum PT. If I had to pick scum out of those two, it would almost certainly be Shirou. implo's read on redtea, while pretty faulty on the logic front, is consistent with the rest of his posts. Shirou's recent posts shortly below the redtea elim do not sound as if they come from town, at all.

If they're town they need to retract it much sooner than that. Otherwise it's a game day wasted due to a warped gamestate and warped analysis. And it culminates in fua's elim tomorrow.

[morph the cat]

I'm incredibly disappointed (and angry) that if they're town and their role claim was true, they decided to do this rather than cut the Gordian knot at the center of this game.

There is apparently no bottom to my disgust. The more I consider the ramifications of today and what that means for tomorrow, the more my contempt grows.

[morph the cat]

My question morph, do you think fua has a reason to fakeclaim a result on you if it's scum!fua and town!morph? I wouldn't really say scum win exactly hinges on your slot to the point where they'd sacrifice a teammate when they're already in a losing position.

And this is why we're certain this is town pulling a wake88.

[morph the cat]

Anyway, if you're instinctual response is to say that I'm lying about copping you, then there shouldn't really be a debate here.

VOTE: Morph

Just for posterity's sake.

What other response would you expect if they were town?

I just woke up but the move is probably to wait and see how this plays out for a bit either way.

Definitely not personal attacks.

Get used to them.

But thanks for retracting that horror of fake claim.

Did you investigate one of the gordian knot, or was your entire n2 cop thing a lie too?

[morph the cat]

US?

BULLYING??

YOU'RE THE PLAYER WHO FAKED A GUILTY ON TOWN.

THAT'S BULLYING.

and that will be my only capslock about it to you before postgame.

[morph the cat]

US?

BULLYING??

YOU'RE THE PLAYER WHO FAKED A GUILTY ON TOWN.

THAT'S BULLYING.

and that will be my only capslock about it to you before postgame.

[morph the cat]

Also, if you don't know how to read a reaction to being fake-guiltied then you have zero business trying this kind of gambit.

[morph the cat]

[morph the cat]

You struck at trauma and played against your win condition, Fua.

Mocking your play AND your terrible decisions is well within the game.

The shittiest part about all of this is that you're town and OUR win condition means that we have to stop even a chance of you getting policy'd for this.

[morph the cat]

I’ve literally been cordial and respectful this entire time. Nothing I’d done had come anywhere near insulting you beyond the game. If you are not able to differentiate between the events within a game and the actual player behind the screen then mafia may not be for you.

My issue is with you the player, not you the person.

you the player faked a guilty on us. you the player apparently fake claimed about your role on day 1 and 2.

you the person, I don't know, and I assume you're a nice person who doesn't kick puppies or anything like that in real life.

[morph the cat]

Cool story.

Checked with the mod, we're in bounds, your play is atrocious and against win condition, and you're tunneled and have wasted five hours of everyone's lives.

Congrats.
p-edit... yeah, we're done with this topic.

Let's talk about the shirou thing more, GL's post raised some eyebrows.

[morph the cat]

Mafia is Serious Business.

Your mistakes will be remembered for ages.

Who know, maybe real life mafia will even come to you.

I’m very scared. I really really want to play with Morph again after this but my own hubris clearly got the better of me.

I see sarcasm tags on this post, but maybe I'm imagining them.

Whether you're being sarcastic or not, I'm still salty about this, but pulling the plug on your gambit goes a way toward bridge repair. for me, anyway. neuterhalf probably has his meme hoard folder open.

[morph the cat]

my gut instinct is that morph is scum here. im not sure if this is weakened or strengthened by their d1 redtea push.

but i don't feel the need to jump into action quite yet.

my plan is to read redtea's iso soon. i will almost assuredly derive nothing of value from it, but it's an exercise that must be undertaken all the same. then i'll try to do the harder part of sorting the other direction of interaction

And I was moved by your day 1 lament that nobody every invites you to the big kid's table in games. Not that you did anything with the reachouts, but still.

------------

I'll be afk or mobile-posting (~snort~) for the next 8-9 hours.

Enjoy unmitigated neuterhalf for the duration.

[morph the cat]

my gut instinct is that morph is scum here. im not sure if this is weakened or strengthened by their d1 redtea push.

but i don't feel the need to jump into action quite yet.

my plan is to read redtea's iso soon. i will almost assuredly derive nothing of value from it, but it's an exercise that must be undertaken all the same. then i'll try to do the harder part of sorting the other direction of interaction

And I was moved by your day 1 lament that nobody every invites you to the big kid's table in games. Not that you did anything with the reachouts, but still.

------------

I'll be afk or mobile-posting (~snort~) for the next 8-9 hours.

Enjoy unmitigated neuterhalf for the duration.

If townreading you is a requirement for entry, the big kids' table is actually just for cowards.

decent accuracy is a plus.

your lament wasn't aimed solely at me, though being the softy I am, it had an effect.

do better tomorrow, please.

[morph the cat]

Uh, this is about modern us.

Lots of scabs got picked open this game, too.

[morph the cat]

Dunno if I'd even call them Appeals to Emotion as opposed to just raw emotion.

[morph the cat]

Am I wrong in thinking the amount of ATE coming out of your slot this game is pretty atypical

Wait a second you were in bloodstained you fucking well know what it looks like these days.

[morph the cat]

I'm fine with mass at this point, no idea what spay thinks but she's driving so fuck it, and I'm even fine with us being first since it doesn't mater much.

[morph the cat]

Assuming this is popcorn, please pick the next to claim Tejate.

[morph the cat]

...Interesting.

Have you played in a game with popcorn claiming before, Tejate?

[morph the cat]

Unfortunately, there's zero universes where Fua as scum pulls the day opening ringamarole.

[morph the cat]

only a few doctors left

?

Am I missing something where this is known data?

[morph the cat]

...Interesting.

Have you played in a game with popcorn claiming before, Tejate?

Nope.

Generally speaking with popcorn claims, you ask your largest scum suspect to claim next, as to give your suspects the least info possible when claiming in order.

[morph the cat]

Am I wrong in thinking the amount of ATE coming out of your slot this game is pretty atypical

You've already demonstrated you lack the experience to read my outrage accurately. I'll say experience because I do think you're able to do better at reading my reactions to a bullshit game situation, but you're being lazy and I don't think you'll put the work in to do remedial ffery meta in the first place.

You're town to me. but ffs pull your socks up.

If townreading you is a requirement for entry, the big kids' table is actually just for cowards.

DAAAAAMN. That was savage.[/quote]



I think mass claiming is pretty sub-optimal but y'all do y'all.

--------------------

vote: GuiltyLion

His reaction to fua's fake claim was ass.

redtea/GL/???

[morph the cat]

I'd be a lot more trusting of your intent to cop GL if you hadn't worked so damn hard to knock the wheels off the redtea wagon on day 1, and went so overboard pushing a no-elim yesterday.

[morph the cat]

His reaction to fua's fake claim was ass.

how was it ass

I'm inclined to believe fua's claimed result, morph is definitely in my POE and I share similar feelings that it felt like they were posturing and stalling/non-committing on redtea throughout yesterday. I also don't think implo/Shirou together as a team would make much sense, I doubt both scum buds go hard on trying to protect a buddy together like they did. I agree with Tejate I think Shirou's D2 posting at the end of the day yesterday is hard to understand coming from town. I also did a little bit of rereading and rethinking last night and I get more vibes from implosion that he was genuinely uninformed about redtea, Shirou also seemed to bounce his read around redtea is town LHF or redtea scum whenever it was convenient for whatever argument he was pushing at the time.

The main reasons I had for townreading morph were:
- AL didn't seem too concerned about them yet
- I liked when they seemed to be re-evaluating on Tejate in 2198, I thought that was more likely genuine at a time when scum could be setting up to hop on Tejate

but the second reason is not super great, I could see it coming from scum just trying to bank some towncred by projecting mixed feelings or uncertainty on Tejate

the one thing I want to ask fua just to do my due diligence - fua, why did you write the case on morph first if you were planning on immediately outing your result after their first response? Why not just open with your result?

The way you hedged.

You believed fua's fake claim but your reasons for townreading us before the fake claim hadn't been overturned.

The "due diligence" is pure hedge and I feel very much that you saw a potential opportunity to elim us and then turn on fua on day 4.

And after fua retracted their claim you've had jack to say the fake claim OR about us.

[morph the cat]

uhhh

it should be pretty obvious those reasons aren't especially compelling reasons to have somebody as strong town, especially in light of another player claiming to have a guilty result

how am I "hedging" by asking fua that question? do you think at any point I was going to actually suspect/accuse fua of lying? I wanted to understand what the thought process was, because it was a little bit of an odd way to play a guilty.

Like I said, I think you saw a potential opportunity to ride that fake guilty to our elim and then turn on fua the next day. You started the post saying you believed fua's guilty.

You hedged reasons to think we're scum, which I don't believe our day 2 play supports: We said on WEDNESDAY that we'd hammer redtea, and we repeatedly said we wanted Peng's thoughts in the thread, and we wanted a convo with her. Tammy, too, but Tammy was more of a presence on day 2 than Peng, though she was behind most of the game day.

They were confirmed town on day 2 and they were our one completely locktown read on day 1. Our stance regarding them and our intent to hammer redtea is in our iso and you glossed right over that.

I still think you're POE scum, none of that has really changed based on fua retracting the claim, just makes the game slightly harder than it would have been if it were a true guilty. what would you have expected town!GL to say, that I haven't said?

Well, you get to explain why you ignored PA's comfort level that Cabd was town when we flip. And that flip may very well happen today.

[morph the cat]

Like I said, I think you saw a potential opportunity to ride that fake guilty to our elim and then turn on fua the next day. You started the post saying you believed fua's guilty.

if I'm scum and you're town, I'd know fua is lying, correct?

so how on earth would I believe that I could actually ride the fake guilty, knowing that fua might retract it at any moment?

What was believable about it to you?

[morph the cat]

Like I said, I think you saw a potential opportunity to ride that fake guilty to our elim and then turn on fua the next day. You started the post saying you believed fua's guilty.

if I'm scum and you're town, I'd know fua is lying, correct?

so how on earth would I believe that I could actually ride the fake guilty, knowing that fua might retract it at any moment?

I'm not saying you went full bore with the idea. I'm saying that you saw the potential, and your stance gave you room for that option. We could have been quick-elimmed. fua could have insisted the guilty was real until we were hammered, as Wake did to me in this game.

I kinda hate linking that game because I completely lost my shit when Wake finally said it was a fake claim after I was hammered.

We believe fua is town despite the fake claims (yes claims) because faking a guilty today as scum is premature. It was awful play for a townie and it burned their cred with us for the duration of our time in the game.

[morph the cat]

Good to see mafia meta hasn’t changed in literally 10 years and that I’m the same person as Wake.

Wake had nothing to do with mafia meta at the time.

You get the opportunity to redeem yourself in this game.

Use it.

[morph the cat]

You can be as hurt as you like about my reaction to be fake-guiltied.

And can be as wrong as you wanna be about our alignment.

It's going to be a fact in evidence, though, and you're never going to have the mafia moral high ground over us in this game. We're completely justified in our opinion of your play.

[morph the cat]

You can be as hurt as you like about my reaction to be fake-guiltied.

And can be as wrong as you wanna be about our alignment.

It's going to be a fact in evidence, though, and you're never going to have the mafia moral high ground over us in this game. We're completely justified in our opinion of your play.

Except a good chunk of it wasn’t about my play, it was about me as a person beyond the game?

It absolutely was about your play.

I don't know anything about you as a person. But I now have a very detailed opinion of you as a player.

[morph the cat]

i want to comment on the debate occurring but i don't think what i have to say would be helpful so i am choosing to shut up

All the cool kids put it in the in-thread neighborhood tags.

[morph the cat]

.especifically Amazon's read on Morph. I think they thought the slot was more likely town than not although never much confident on it.

Uh yeah about that. Not that I expect anyone to take my word for it OR do the meta homework of reading old penguin games, but the exact place she put us in her reads and the way she talked about us is uh, exactly where she puts town reads she thinks have useful PRs and doesn't want them to be too obvtowned to eat early kills.

[morph the cat]

Little rude? Not even close.

You're throwing a tantrum and invoking a fake mechanical reason for a read you're extremely sure of because you're to cowardly to argue it without; in a way that is going to stifle discussion on the day.

Just warning, i will turn on Fua if this is "Gambit" and morph flips town, and i don't care about reason.

Oh hey look it's the exact consequences of the action that I'm literally begging you to avoid by coming clean.

My wife died after protecting this bullshit :/

[tweet][/tweet]

My piece has been said. If Morph flips town after we talk eliminate me tomorrow.

If you are town, and you're pulling this shit, you will lose more than this game.

You'll lose the respect of every town player in this game.

I even consider the possibility you're town because the first time anyone faked a guilty on me it was chucklefuck town.

It just seems very unlikely to me that a real cop would lie about their result, but apparently it's happened before with Wake88.

Wake faked the guilty on me, spayhalf, in 2013. He's still blacklisted.

The only way fua comes out of this game with a shred of respect is if they're scum faking a guilty. If they're town, which I suspect, then the payment is un-erasable contempt.

I'm incredibly disappointed (and angry) that if they're town and their role claim was true, they decided to do this rather than cut the Gordian knot at the center of this game.

There is apparently no bottom to my disgust. The more I consider the ramifications of today and what that means for tomorrow, the more my contempt grows.

Yeah, this is directed towards me the player. Sure.

This is entirely about you as a player.

Cabd asked the mod if we'd overstepped into attacks on you as a person as opposed to a player, and he said that we hadn't. And we're not going to.

I understand that you feel we were too rough on you. But your claim that we bullied you is straight up farcical. We REACTED to being fake-guiltied. Whatever you thought you were accomplishing with that, you didn't get what you wanted.

If you had READ my reaction to the fake guilty in the other game you could probably draw some parallels to our play today and some things that are quite different.

The main thing that is different is that I won't ever trust someone fake-guiltying me to come clean of their own accord after that game. And I won't ever assume that a player is CAPABLE of analyzing the results of their gambit on me before they prove that they can.

You happened to pull your fake guilty on a hydra that is fairly infamous for gambiting as both alignments in closed setups. We see no value in town doing high risk gambits in this setup, so we've played conventionally and we will continue to do so.

Here's something you can try at home: Go back and look at other players' reactions to your fake guilty and see which ones look sincere and uninformed.

[morph the cat]

I think Morph should claim.

[morph the cat]

it just would've been nice if there were evidence of that thought process occurring in real time in your posts. instead, you have what a former math teacher of mine would call "transmission issues". or a discontinuity.

Who is this to?

[morph the cat]

Are we seriously mass claiming today?

[morph the cat]

Ceph, I'm making you feel bad. You're making me feel bad. So, I think the best option for me is just not interact any more unless you have something you actually want a response about.

I'm going to do the same with fua.

[morph the cat]

I'm not really in favor of no-elim.

Eliminating us eliminates town, though.

[morph the cat]

This isn't exactly a game-changing observation, but if there is scum on our wagon, it's Shirou.

I like our vote on GL.

[morph the cat]

This isn't exactly a game-changing observation, but if there is scum on our wagon, it's Shirou.

I like our vote on GL.

can you talk about your read progression on me? You had me as fairly townish, townier than implosion throughout a lot of D2, then suddenly I started tanking in your reads towards the end of the day and today you didn't like my reaction to your claim. What else (other than the claim thing) made you less confident on me as town?

On day 2 you didn't so much tank as implosion started looking more town to me.

I still really hate how you reacted to fua's fake claims.

There was actually talk about quicklimming us before fua came clean. So, your assertion that I was unlikely to be eliminated before fua did come clean rings a little hollow to me.

[morph the cat]

Shirou/numberq potential team is spicy

You're high up on the list of ??? in my redtea/GL/??? mindmap.

[morph the cat]

Shirou/numberq potential team is spicy

You're high up on the list of ??? in my redtea/GL/??? mindmap.

Shirou is the other candidate for ???, but that will hopefully either sort itself out tonight or become even more of a sort requirement.

[morph the cat]

morph no thoughts on that numberQ post I called out? if you really are town then that looks to me like someone who knows it

It's something I have thought about, but there are two concerns I have about reading that post the way you are.

- it kinda fits with his posting style throughout this game.
- IMO this isn't the day to start tearing into n1 results claims. Though, it's less likely to cause a shit storm fake-claiming an inno result on town or fellow scum than faking-claiming a guilty result on town.

He's right about our alignment and aside from PA, people reading us correctly this game hasn't been all that common. Maybe that's a worrisome sign. BUT. He came back with an inno on day 2 on a player he had a strong scumread of during day 1. And Ceph was another player who wasn't picking up a bunch of townreads on day 1, iirc.

[morph the cat]

3000 and a pagetop?

mine.

[morph the cat]

You have an interesting way of applying Ockham's razor, GL.

[morph the cat]

It's in response to your reply to Tejate.

But I have different question for you.

You say you're now scumreading us, and yet you seem to be trying to convince me that I'm wrong about you. What are you trying to accomplish with this back and forth?

[morph the cat]

My stance on you is quite genuine. And if you're scum you know that it's going to be the stance of a town hydra who usually has good reads and whose day 1 strong townreads have already become either facts, or the gamestate has evolved to make those townreads look damn good so far.

A problem I have with how you're approaching me is that if I were scum here then all I would be doing is spewing you town here by my stance when I flip, which is very likely to happen today.

To anyone outside us who can't bank on either of our alignments maybe they can see an off chance this is mega-distancing if we're the last two scum and you're the one with a chance of going long enough.

But to you, if you're town then then my approach here is quixotic. It doesn't save me today. It doesn't scumpaint you if you're right about your flip.

And if you're truly trying to figure me out, then the interactions should be more evenly initiated, rather than you mostly reacting to me.

I've entered a place of calm in this game where everything I do is limned with a light -- the light of knowing my alignment is going to be confirmed soon and my interactions with you and with everyone else still alive in this game become town-me <--> ??? you. And maybe I'm onto something here.

What is it about numbers the player and his body of work here suggests to you that scum him would gambit a cop result on N1?

Because that would have to have happened for him to be proceeding with an informed town-lean on us -- which is the suggestion you've advanced.

[morph the cat]

To me, your stance on numbers looks like you're setting up to pivot on him after my flip.

[morph the cat]

I mean it might save you today? What do you think scum!you would be doing today that's different from what you've done?

This is a terrible question to ask someone like me, because while I'm self-aware enough to know my limitations as any alignment, and know that those limitations are being stretched, especially with every scum game. Mostly due to a statistically improbable low number of scum games for someone whose forum mafia games must number well over 200 overall, and definitely well over 100 at MS.

So while I know what I couldn't have done here as scum and also what I could do, I don't know if the next time I draw scum those limits won't have moved.

But, anyway, if I decided to bus a partner as early as I was on redtea, as opposed to try to help her, I would have been positioning as uber-opposed to moving from redtea to imaginality, even if I didn't do much to prevent it happening.

With Cabd in this hydra that makes coaching and protecting redtea much more of a certainty.

The other stuff that I would have done differently as scum mostly come down to being in a hydra with a much better scum player, and yet I'm the one making most of the posts, and making extremely unguarded in-the-moment posts, especially day 2 and today.

But, back to the matter at hand, this is not a good question to ask most players and I'm surprised you asked me. Not surprised in a good way.

[morph the cat]

if I may indulge in a little Shirou style self-aware tangential diatribe on mafia philosophy, I feel like it's wonky when people act like someone suspecting somebody, while also thinking somebody else would look scummy if that suspect were to flip town, is something that only scum would do to chain miselims. I'm almost never 100% confident in my scumreads and I'm always trying to think about what the game looks like if/when I'm wrong. It's also the easiest way to offer an olive branch to your scumreads to try to see if you have mutual scumreads elsewhere, what the gamestate looks like from their assumed-town PoV.

for me to not be suspecting numberQ (or anyone else for that matter) in any capacity today, it would require me to be

fully convinced

that morph/Shirou is the scum team, and that's just not how I operate. I've been wrong too many times to be that full of myself. I think Shirou's prob scum, and then I'm like 40% morph, 35% numberQ, 25% the field on a third scum. And Shirou might not even be scum! so why would I mindlessly tunnel a morph elim without even trying to be openminded that you might be town? why do I get assigned scumpoints for trying to reach out to you to say "hey, if you are town, to me it looks like numberQ reacted to the fake guilty in a way that reflects an informed perspective"?

Really the only thing about your play around me specifically that gives me town-glimmers today is that you're kinda pushing no-elim more so than merely entertaining the idea IMO. If you're scum you know that my elim today is very achievable and that the elim pool potentially narrows A LOT at the start of day 4, or there's a REAL guilty result(s) tomorrow as opposed to today's bullshit. A town elim today is not a bad result for scum.

Maybe there's enough scum favorability in a no-elim today even with potential clears tomorrow if not actual guilties, though. I dunno. And maybe raising all the concern about Numbers increases the likelihood that town uses a cop on him, despite his cop result, rather than someplace more likely to hit scum.

This kind of spec is not my forte, though, so I'm hesitant to put much weight on that being a good indicator of town-you.

My forte is developing townreads and effective POEs.

[morph the cat]

It's been a really busy day. I have some stuff I want to do, but I dunno if I get to it tonight.

I'm somewhat perplexed that one of my scumreads wants to no elim and one of them expects me to be today's elim.

And I'm thinking on which of those outcomes helps scum the most or hurts scum the least given the big plan. I'm not sure I'll come to a good answer.

[morph the cat]

To me, your stance on numbers looks like you're setting up to pivot on him after my flip.

this though, you're not wrong! because if you are town then I think that makes numberQ likely scum, and so if you flip town then yeah, I would pivot to him.

I'd kinda like for you to expand on why town-us leads to scum-numberQ, but if we're no limming it should probably wait.

[morph the cat]

To me, your stance on numbers looks like you're setting up to pivot on him after my flip.

this though, you're not wrong! because if you are town then I think that makes numberQ likely scum, and so if you flip town then yeah, I would pivot to him.

I'd kinda like for you to expand on why town-us leads to scum-numberQ, but if we're no limming it should probably wait.

It's really not that complicated and I'm a little confused why you dont seem to understand my point of view.

Ceph, fua, Enchant, Tejate I find to be strong townreads both given mechanical info and their play this game

Meg I think felt like he was being set up as a miselimination this game, and I am also townreading him (though to a lesser degree than the above three)

I think one of implosion and Shirou are scum who were trying to protect redtea yesterday. They have both also claimed cop which should help be self resolving. I doubt that they are scum together, both because it doesn't feel like the best long term team play to both take the same approach to redtea, and because it puts them in a dicey situation claimwise with actions tonight. Imo it's far more likely one is town who got buddied/swindled by the other, and my money is on Shirou doing the swindling and implo being pocketed.

Which leaves you and numberQ as two remaining scum candidates by POE. And neither of you were especially non-partnery with redtea, so I kinda just have to assess based on how I feel about your reads and your play.

I'd be kinda gobsmacked if your read of the game is drastically different from this, and from your comments about Shirou it doesn't seem to be, so how do you not understand my POV here as it relates to you and numberQ??

Every time I see my name paired with someone as S-T or T-S, the implied reads feel stronger to me than simply someone leaving the POE and heightening the POE equity of someone else.

And I keep coming back to HOW are scum positioning around me?

It's fucking murky.

[morph the cat]

i don't really have much to say <_<

either the game is solved tomorrow or it's not, p much.

yah. one can hope.

[morph the cat]

And we were considering hammering no-elim last night. Would have happened if I weren't so paranoid about Day 4.

Tejate has also been making a lot of weird assertions about what scum would and wouldn't do, explaining their motivations behind kills/trying to drive home a narrative beyond that too and it kind of shows. He's also the one that's been trying to get the most milage out of Shirou to build up an association between him (Shirou) and Redtea, and it's hard not to feel like GL is joining in the mix to support that.

Neuterhalf also noticed the ~scum motivations behind kills~ posts. We've been trying to find time to discuss it in greater detail.

---------------

It's another travel day for spayhalf. I'll be around for a couple hours this morning and then mostly afk for 6-8 hours.

[morph the cat]

VOTE: GL

Too late for peacekeeping, eh

Do you agree with fua's case?

[morph the cat]

Actually, if you read the post before that one, I was assuming it was real. The reason I said I'd policy you in the first place is because the current discussion was about the guilty being fake,

as brought up by morph

. I

suggested

policy as a way to resolve a discussion I saw as going in circles because I

honestly

half-believed

the claim.

:/


I hate this entire line of thought. Extra weasel-worlds. Minimizes your own agency...

[morph the cat]

Again though, it's just strictly better to let cops get results before we lim anybody claiming a future night role

We nearly hammered nolim last night and of all the things we expected, waking up to more votes on you was not even in our headspace.

[morph the cat]

Time to ride off into the sunset, then?

[morph the cat]

Oh also spay is traveling so it's the neuter show.

I'm fine moving along so we can have data before the next workweek starts.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: nolim catboi's face

[morph the cat]

Yeah I explicitly want cephrir to make the final approval/selection of pools, and going against it is a scum claim.

[morph the cat]

UNVOTE:

Sure.

I thought it had less votes such that my vote wouldn't be E-1

[morph the cat]

Morph let's go if you're town, put your vote back on GL?

Trying to think of a sentence that would make me less interested in putting our vote back right now.

Coming up empty.

[morph the cat]

Morph let's go if you're town, put your vote back on GL?

Trying to think of a sentence that would make me less interested in putting our vote back right now.

Coming up empty.

This might be the towniest thing you've done all day.

Trying to think of a sentence that would make me more interested in listening to Shiro.

etc.

Not really, but your (or anyone's) opinion of what makes us townie is pretty low on my list of things to care about today.

[morph the cat]

I object to being in Shirou's pool.

I don't know why that change happened.

[morph the cat]

I object to being in Shirou's pool.

I don't know why that change happened.

no one wants to be in my pool...like, is this even a valid complaint? sorry?

no one wants to be in my pool so is there any meaning to listening to requests like this...?

That's an interesting reaction.

[morph the cat]

Shirou: GL/Meg
fua: implosion/Shirou/Tejate
implosion: morph/numberQ/Enchant

can we just do this.

i don't feel like there are actually good reasons for the changes and complications.

We're good with this.

[morph the cat]

VOTE: No Elim

Done.

Good hunting.

[morph the cat]

Tejate is town. I didn't want to risk the invest on a cop when it was 50/50 that one could be nightkilled.

This is a load off my mind. I got to a townread on day 2, but the differences between his play here and in Newbie 2085 are pretty stark.

[morph the cat]

I'm still holding on to a Ceph townread and I don't think that changes, maybe barring an NQ scumflip. We both trust Peng to read him correctly, and by the end of day 1 I had come around to townreading him, myself. My track record reading Ceph is such that I wouldn't bet the farm solely on that basis, though.

[morph the cat]

This doesn't look like Enchant's scum game to me.

[morph the cat]

End of Day 3 I was thinking GL and Shirou both had scum equity, but wasn't sure they make sense as a team. I'm still not sure of that.

[morph the cat]

It's like galaxy brain "OH WELL LET'S SKIP KILL AND HOPE SOME N1 DOC WILL HEAL ONE OF US"

Yeah, this.

And his reaction to our blowing up about the fake guilty also looked town, both of which are why we never assumed he was scum faking that.

[morph the cat]

If Shirou is scum, I don't think he "innos" his partner today, given the amount of suspicion he was under at the end of day 3.

That's not bet-the-farm level clearing of Meg, but it's close.

[morph the cat]

I think the wifom pandora's box is going to be wide open when today ends.

[morph the cat]

We have three futures.

Shirou is fake Cop.
NumberQ is fake Cop.
Both legit, then mafia team are exactly Morph+Guilty.


... And that's all.

If you're correct, then there is a fake cop.

Of the two, Shirou is my pick.

There's something I want to do, but I haven't discussed it with neuterhalf, so I won't decide whether to do it until he's free to catch up.

[morph the cat]

There's something I want to do, but I haven't discussed it with neuterhalf, so I won't decide whether to do it until he's free to catch up.

That didn't take long.

I'll leave it up for discussion for a bit, but we intend to claim and then accept being miselimmed.

The sooner town addresses the wifom cop situation the better, and I consider this approach to be a quick way to make that evaluation happen.

[morph the cat]

Morph, I think you should begin the massclaim if you're around.

We will shortly.

We'd like to get Ceph's reaction to today's opening first.

[morph the cat]

I read all the posts so far today but just a skim through, I have a busy work day so I won't be able to fully dive deep for a bit

I need to think about Shirou's claimed target and his reasoning to say that I'm town from that, I feel like it's a bit WIFOMy and buddy-buddy and I am not liking how he's throwing sus on fua/Enchant slots. he's prob still my top lim choice for today, but I do kinda feel him on this being not a great play if scum? I guess if he's scum he's kinda boxed in, his options were either this or try to 1v1 me and both probably aren't great

I'll go ahead and claim, I am a

Night 5 Doctor

. I can't think of a really useful way to use this other than to leash onto any N5 cops if we have them, otherwise I'll opt for protecting whoever is alive and conftown, assuming game is not over by then

Interesting.

We are also a Night 5 Doctor

.

[morph the cat]

I feel like Shirou's attempt to stir up paranoia about fua is ++scum.

[morph the cat]

if Meg or Ceph is a doctor it would confirm one of Shirou/numberQ as town, right?

I don't disagree that one of Shirou/numberQ is town. Mine is a nearly entirely read-based opinion as to which, but I'm curious what your logic for this statement is.

[morph the cat]

I don't disagree that one of Shirou/numberQ is town. Mine is a nearly entirely read-based opinion as to which, but I'm curious what your logic for this statement is.

we have 6 doc claims and 4 cop claims

implo confirmed cop, fua isn't strictly confirmed cop but close enough for today

another doc claim means that at least one of Shirou/numberQ has to be truthful. even if we're in paranoia world where fua is scum, would still mean one of Shirou/nQ is town.

which would be important info because fmpov Shirou/nQ is still a valid solve - and I feel like it should be one of your main solves too?? I need to think through from your point of view but if you claim town and one of them is town it would drastically shrink the POE fypov, so I feel this is again a Weird Remark

I've been townreading NQ since late day 1.

Your push on NQ is one of the reasons I don't townread you.

I still don't understand why another doc claim means one of them has to be town. Whether you accept the degree of clearedness that Enchant posits in its entirety, either of us could be lying from an outside perspective.

[morph the cat]

Ah.

I think I do get it.

Mech is not my thing.

[morph the cat]

Morph, GuiltyLion MUST be scum for you.

I believe that you are well aware of my stance on GL.

I was arguably too vocal about it on day 3.

[morph the cat]

Fua is town and anyone thinking otherwise should pour gasoline over themselves and light a match.

I don't have to be happy with their play to town read them. There's no way day two goes down the way it did with a fua nokill n1 gambit.

[morph the cat]

fua and Tejate being the only ones today to still be on the "let's lim Shirou" train from yesterday is really giving me confidence in my solve tbh. I don't think anyone else has been advocating for that, unless I missed something.

I mean if you gave me a gun with one bullet right now things wouldn't be looking great for Shirou.

This but slightly less confidently.

[morph the cat]

What about D2 makes you think this?

Do a dual ISO of just Amazonians and Fua.

[morph the cat]

Shirou, it feels like you had something on your phone that you don't want your SO seeing so you keep spamming the convo to get stuff out of being visible on screen.

So much noise.

For the love of Arceus, if you're town, spoiler tag that shit and draft it together in one well laid out post instead of word vomiting it over five hundred posts. If you're scum, uh, keep doing what you're doing I guess that's cool?

[morph the cat]

We'll both probably be AFK until tomorrow evening. I might have time to catch up and post tomorrow morning.

[morph the cat]

We all quite talkative today. :/

I have some probably crazy thoughts about this gamestate. Neuterhalf won't be available/in shape to tell me how crazy they are until late tonight or tomorrow. I probably won't have much to say until then unless players post new stuff that I have thoughts about.

[morph the cat]

Shirou is probably where we're going to want to vote.

I think I've lost my GL scumread and I don't know how I feel about it.

[morph the cat]

You insulant clod, it's because Fua didn't try to capitalize off of it.

I reject both of your shitty binary choices that are designed to make us look lesser in both cases.

[morph the cat]

May not get an answer to that tonight. He's pretty pained out.

But, could you (anyone) ELI5 how Meg is conftown?

[morph the cat]

oh one other thing I did want to bring up is that I think overall the AL kill does point to morph scum, and we haven't talked about that enough. Why else kill an outed doc over trying to hit a cop? especially if fua actually was an attempted N1 kill, their plan was to shoot for an outed cop on N1 but then shoot an outed doc on N2? We had already leashed another doc on fua, scum could probably have a good odds of getting off a shot at anyone, why pick the one slot that was confirmed not-cop?

I guess the best argument is to get rid of a universal town read, but I have to think the cops are still more threatening that early in the game.

This theory has to be the most demoralizing thing ever been posted about me in a mafia game. We ASKED you guys to slow roll day 2 so that Amazonians could get their thoughts into the thread. We wanted to work with them both day 1 and 2 but their schedules just didn't allow it until late day 2 and I absolutely cannot side-eye enough for cutting it short just as Peng was just about caught up.

The reason I asked about Meg is because of the Shirou inno, and wondering if there's something else in Meg's play that strongly suggests town. An inno by Shiro isn't convincing to me given my read there, and I keep thinking back on the way NSG warned about giving Shirou easy town reads and asking myself if that was some early distancing.

Anyway.

One of us or Shirou is elimmed today in all likelihood.

If it's us, then town gets to reset, and I hope to Tlaloc that reset makes a difference. And if that reset has anything to do with elimming fua then we will invite Karma to have it's way with this town.

[morph the cat]

This is spayhalf.

And read the rest of the damn paragraph.

[morph the cat]

After we flip DO NOT ignore our no-touch uber townread of fua.

[morph the cat]

I'm saying that we'd bet the farm that fua is town. And once you know our alignment, don't ignore that read.

[morph the cat]

Our strongest townreads:

Day 1: Amazonians, fua

Day 2: Amazonians, fua, NQ, Ceph

Day 3: fua, Ceph, Enchant..NQ (y'alls paranoia is infectious)

Day 4 fua, Ceph, Enchant...NQ

The rest of you can pound sand.

[morph the cat]

My memory may be retconning some, but I don't think so.

[morph the cat]

Actually I think tejate moved pretty townward on day 2. then we got paranoid about what looked like a perspective slip mid-late day 3. The Tejate inno result puts that to bed.

[morph the cat]

mastina called, something about confirmed town

[morph the cat]

I know mech is required to solve this game, but I'm never going to accept elimming a god tier townread over mech speculation.

[morph the cat]

So if you want to do that, go ahead and elim us today and we'll point and laugh in the dead thread.

[morph the cat]

That kind of bullshit from a null-scum-read gets nothing but a snort. Your sledging attempts are noted though.

[morph the cat]

I'm interested in what fua and morph think of all this mech shit. It makes my head hurt.

Mine, too. I've read through it, and nod along. I kinda think Shirou is correct that his mech solve plan is neutral wrt to alignment, so there's that. And it makes me a little hesitant to vote him.

I think one of us or GL needs to be alive on N5 because we're both claimed N5 drs. if he's scum he has to play tonight's NK like he's town. And if he's town I think there's a chance he dies tonight to avoid a protect on N5, and I dunno if a hypothetical N4 doctor would be best served protecting him over a more confirmed player. Probably not?

He's efforting a lot harder we have and we probably will. Neither neuterhalf nor I have really gotten our heads stuck the game to the extent we need to, and there's no guarantee that changes, even if we're investigated.

I think Tejate said something about our play changing. I'm not sure if he means our play over the course of this game, or if he's trying to compare my play in the newbie game to here. The thing that changed my attitude about this game was the fake guilty after the late day 2 walls that fua posted about us creating apathy but not voting redtea after we unvoted by request because WE WANTED PENG TO HAVE A CHANCE TO POST HER THOUGHTS. I cannot overstate how pissed I was about that, and about the hammer shortly after she said she was going to sit down and do stuff late day 2.

In the newbie game I was extremely annoyed at being almost completely shut down while trying to solve after I replaced into that game, but it was a newbie game and I don't usually show my irritation when playing in newbie games. I was motivated to leave the newb who were still in that game in the best position I could, as well as doing as much next-day solving as I could, though I acquiesced to being eliminated before elo.

I'm kind of in the same mindset here in terms of willingness to be elimmed today though there's some chance (probably a small one) that we'd be innoed if we're not elimed. But given my with-it-ness in this game I question if innoing us turns us into our most ferocious ball of fire, so.

[morph the cat]

I will ask again to confirm, now that I've explained why it's optimal to check me/NQ just in case we're in 7:5. If we eliminated Morph, would both of you agree to:

also, this assumes you would follow the plan regardless of Morph flip.

(even though I think they just flip scum...)

The feelings pretty mutual. I'm hesitant to read you based on effort here and effort is mostly what I like about your play.

[morph the cat]

It dawned on me last night just how low-information our flip is going to be.

We're town, but even if we were scum, I don't think we would have left easy associatives. Since our ability hasn't fired, town gets reads from verified town, but I doubt most of you listen to us anyway.

I'm not arguing against our elim. Just thinking out loud that if town is in better shape on Day 5 it probably won't be because of our flip. I'm townreading some of the players who have voted us or suggested we be elimmed -- how could I not? Maybe one scum is among the players who haven't taken a strong stand.

[morph the cat]

Wait, what? Why are you keeping track of your associatives if you’re town?

I'm not talking about this game in particular. Just the history of my scum elims not point up my partner(s). It's a hypothetical.

It's not going to matter in this game.

I mean, unless they are really bad at leaving associatives, other players (if scum) who don't clear/condemn anyone with their flip due to claimed action/result are probably not going to lead directly to the last scum player either. It's attrition, mech and narrowing POE that will probably win this game if town wins it.

That's what I see our miselim doing -- leaving less space for scum to hide in POEs and verifying our reads are a town player's reads. We don't directly clear or condemn anyone by simple virtue of flipping.

[morph the cat]

We're at E-1, I think.

neuterhalf is not feeling great, but something about Enchant's recent(?) play gives him a Sybil normal game vibe, and he's wondering if Shirou/Enchant makes sense.

I still believe that fua and ceph are never-touch town.

I think tejate and NQ are town

Megs is dependent on Shirou. Nothing in this game clears GL.

And we have no mech reason to think enchant is town afaik, and Cabd's drug-enhanced gut screaming there's an issue with him.

Good luck, town!

And thanks for releasing us from this quagmire of a game.

[morph the cat]

Actually, maybe NQ's slow activity fade should be a concern. I saw the post about working insane hours, but, the fade has been going on longer than that.

[morph the cat]

I think we're done.

Much as we'd like to spite-hammer and get this over with, we're not going to deprive town of that last fragment of data.

So, whenever.

[morph the cat]

it's a little weird their only comment on me is "nothing clears him".

We've said plenty about you.

Your efforting on your read of us is mollifying but you're as much of a who-knows to town as we are from a mech perspective. We're probably more readable than you, particularly in this game, but there's a lot of read-fail going on.

My gut says that if Shirou is scum, you probably aren't but there's nothing that really screams to me that you can't be S-S. It's just gut.

[morph the cat]

After we flip, give some thought to following all that.

I'm headed to the store too. If I galaxy-brain and the thread is still open, I'll splat it into a post.

[morph the cat]

I just want to point out a few things in GL's posts over the last couple of calendar days.

Morph is looking townier here then before but then why the style change?

how is morph looking townie? All they've done is tried to insist fua is mechanically conftown (when they're not), and then snarked at me for daring to re-evaluate on Shirou/nQ, all the while throwing up a bunch of AtE about how demoralized they are and how they'll laugh at town from the dead thread. It feels very much like agenda driven play, regardless of fua's alignment, I don't see any indicators of town trying to solve in what they're doing

We have not called fua mechanically conftown, I don't think. He's a GODTIER TOWNREAD. Which is something else altogether. We are not mech heavy players and this setup does not play to our strengths but, townread/POE is my bread and butter, and while Cabd's playstyle and method of forming reads is different from mine reads trump mech for both of us 99% of the time.

so I got home last night and started diving into morph's ISO with the hopes of detailing out a convincing scum case, and honestly it just made me more confused because I don't think they're really as scummy in ISO as I had been thinking. As I was trying to detail my points out it didn't feel like something I super genuinely/earnestly thought was strongly indicative.

I still think the gamestate largely points to them scum, but their associatives with redtea are only loosely incriminating at best. in that it's how smart scum would distance with a partner and make a show about how they don't TR them while not directly pushing very often to get them limmed. but at the same time it's not hard for me to imagine it being town. and when I got to the D2 fake guilty interaction with fua, it's quite smooth fakery if it was a reaction to a town player claiming a guilty on them.

I'll still highlight the stuff I've been looking at in a little bit so that my ISO dive isn't totally wasted, but I'm not gonna pretend like this is better material than it is. basically if morph is scum here, it's a good performance, because I am not walking away from this exercise feeling better about the read

The above feels like hedging and distancing. He doesn't think our ISO is as scummy as he originally thought but he's still going to write it all up. He's already positioning for our townflip and I imagine will be oh so...what was it? egg on face? I think he was talking about shirou when he used that comment earlier.

Spoiler: huge wall of our posts

aite y'all, here's the post I had sitting around drafted for a day+ or so, for posteriority's sake. Again, looking through this it made me

less

confident in scum morph, but I figure I still want to highlight some things that stand out to me and share my thought process, cause that's basically how mafia is meant to be played. This is largely just a summary of morph/redtea associatives, I want (wanted?) to do a Pt 2 on the fua fake guilty and how morph feels

really fucking invested

in making us all think fua is obv/conf town, but I'm unsure if that's useful yet at this stage or even if I feel all that strongly about it anymore

Morph on redtea

Townlean:
Redtea

Spoiler: Entire Redtea ISO

what's up everyone what IS the tea rn

#328 made me ugly laugh

you people sl'd fua for a little airheadedness in their opening posts?
might as well tie *me* to the stake right now then

really though what I see from their iso is that they're going for more of a conversationalist playstyle rather than an essayist one.

what's up everyone what IS the tea rn

Also sorry for not welcoming, your reply kinda slipped my mind once it turned to the next page. The tea is not exactly what I'd call piping hot right now.

it's almost disappointing but yn the good and respectful vibes make up for it

nyway I only read what was between my first post and my second, I'll read the first 10 pages in the morning
peace~~

Can you explain what in the above ISO led you to putting them in this tier, amongst your towniest reads (given the hydras are there just by default and not due to an actual read of your own as per your admission)

This post is the first real substantive mention of redtea, and it's not an unusual angle to take to distance with a partner as scum. ask another player about why they're (dubiously) TRing your partner, but without proactively casing or pushing them yourself - it gives an impression like you're genuinely sorting that person, but without actually committing to a trajectory on it.

I'm kinda liking Ceph's push on us. Though I kinda hate the idea of actually having a townread there so early.

We're thinking about nuking red tea.

Next we see a proclaimed scumread on redtea, but without much of an actual call to action to other players nor a vote. I know at one point morph said they don't especially believe in the value of voting, and that their vote is usually a true vote to kill, but this kinda situation is basically exactly why I have the opposite opinion, just saying you want to "nuke" redtea is ultimately not a big commitment if there's no functional redtea wagon and in the meantime other players are exploring other wagons and shopping around alternatives. Words are cheap.

I'll say that I didn't expect my one (1) game with fua to be helpful but page 16 is telling me everyone would benefit from skimming one of their town games if one is studying-inclined

How are you leaning re fua on page 16? and which town game are you referencing?

Here's the first real interaction between the two. This is a softball question, just asking for a read and a link to a past game. not a hard question for scum!redtea to deal with, but can look like a ~progression~ on redtea.

Not Voting (6): imaginality, morph the cat, redtea, Tejate Raichu, Ydrasse, Shirou

hot take, not voting makes people harder to solve and gives less content to read them off of than the spectrum of activity/inactivity

I'd like everyone not voting to explain in their next post if they'd be willing to vote redtea and why or why not

I am not of the voteliness is next to godliness school of mafia thought. And I've rubbed off on Neuterhalf. I don't vote until I want to see a single specific player eliminated. I may change my mind, and I may compromise late in a game day.

Our bottom tiers look like this right now:

{implosion, imaginality, numbers}
{NSG, redtea}

redtea's posts have been low-content for the most part and when he answers questions the answers don't really satisfy. For instance, he made a statement about fua's alignment being easily discerned with some meta reference, but nothing about that post indicated his read of fua, which gives him tons of wiggle room when someone (quite possibly me) comes back with an opinion.

NSG's initial content was unimpressive and low quantity though pleasant. I'm keeping an open mind on the slot, but that's where she currently sits wrt to everyone who's posted more content.

Again, redtea morph's most confident scumread, yet no vote. Here's the VC at the time of this post:

Vote Count 1.06

Tejate Raichu (2):

northsidegal, fua

northsidegal (2):

implosion, Cephrir

implosion (1):

Amazonian Legends

Cephrir (1):

numberQ

redtea (1):

GuiltyLion

Not Voting (6):

imaginality, morph the cat, redtea, Tejate Raichu, Ydrasse, Shirou

With 13 alive, it's 7 to eliminate.

Deadline for Day 1 is January 22 at 2:00 PM EST.

Deadline Timer:

(expired on 2022-01-22 15:00:00)

@morph is this about me not responding to your question about my current fua read you posited *checks watch* 8 hours ago

You posted again a few hours after I asked the question without answering it. That's is of more concern to me than how many hours since I asked.

And you still haven't answered it.

Why is scum!redtea hostile to a town!morph here? Answering a question about a read is ultimately not that hard, so why does redtea pick a fight with a slot that has

said

they scumread redtea and would be willing to vote there? I generally think if this was S-T there'd be more appeasement here, I suspect instead they wanted to play up more antagonism between the two to try to make them look unpartnered.

Morph does eventually move into voting redtea, in the following posts - 1313, 1398, 1416. The thing I want to highlight here is that at this point in time, AL has now indicated (and then) voted redtea and in these posts morph is trying to feel out how strongly AL really feels about that read. Knowing that AL is town, and probably the most threatening player individually to morph, I'm slightly less inclined to townread the progression onto the redtea vote here as I can imagine scum!morph may be more interested in pocketing AL for the time being than keeping a deadweight partner alive.

might've missed it bc i was skimming but kinda bummed no one responded to my questions in #1209. Like I didn't ask them just to ask, I asked because if someone had something to say it would be helpful to me.

a little old now but

@morph is this about me not responding to your question about my current fua read you posited *checks watch* 8 hours ago

You posted again a few hours after I asked the question without answering it. That's is of more concern to me than how many hours since I asked.

I just assumed you would've read #982 and held off on a follow-up accordingly, even if that @ wasn't to you

When would be a suitable amount of time to expect an answer?

Again, this is like the main thing morph has on redtea, "you didn't answer my question!". There's not a sense of critically evaluating what content redtea

has

given, it feels like a procedural reason to scumread redtea, which I think is easier to fake as scum (when you know the other slot is scum) rather than a deeper level explanation of why redtea's posting does not indicate town mindset.

I need to call out 1573, 1599 because here morph is pressuring imaginality, at the time he was the main CW to redtea. I can't genuinely put a ton of scumpoints into this particular angle because I very much did the same thing at the time, and imaginality's posts were a bit all over the place, but it is easy to consider

if morph is scum

that these posts serve an agenda of directing town attention away from redtea.

*actively cheerleads the day ending*

So what you're telling me is I can make ceph's day, annoy redtea, AND summon the cute twinky femcatboy mod all at once~?

The thing that stands out to me with this post (setting up to hammer imaginality) is the desire to "annoy redtea". Why is that a goal, to "annoy" them? Didn't morph suspect redtea of being scum? how does "annoying" them help sort them or pressure them?

1988, 2164 are again, fairly tepid shade on redtea. Again there's no vote and these aren't things that force other players to consider voting redtea, it's just setting up a history of a weak scumread on the slot.

That's the thing, I feel like that already happened. Did you see how discussion of redtea at all just dropped? It seemed like no one was keen to talk about them today early on, despite them being the most major wagon from yesterday. No, we jumped right into scum!Tejate hour without even a single mention of the scummiest inactive slot. IIRC GuiltyLion was one of the first people to actually pull discussion back there.

The counterpoint to this is that redtea so far has done nothing much that provokes a big rethink, and just coming into today with a vote there doesn't advance much knowledge. I wanted to push and poke at other slots I'm not townreading, which I've been able to do to some extent.

Not as much as I'd like. The 1v1 back and forth walls are really offputting to me. I never am going to love that style of play, but this game it's actively soul-draining.

----------

I kinda like Meg's voiced concern about rushing to an elim, even though I don't think it's likely to happen in this player list.

This post kinda speaks for itself, morph doesn't want to vote redtea because it "doesn't advance much knowledge". What knowledge was morph advancing elsewhere instead, and how did that help town to find any scum?

Not gonna lie, I have not even skimmed this wall. Before he posted it he indicated it wasn't all that convincing, even to him.

I'll give

intent to hammer

morph but let them have some time to express any last reads or response to anything, so it's not imminent.

One thing I want to make very clear - if morph flips scum and I die tonight,

please do not locktown fua

. The

best

point in fua's favor as to why they are town is no kill on N1, but this is not totally out of the ballpark of an intentional scum gambit. And I do think if morph flips scum, we need to revisit and discuss fua's fake guilty on them, because all that fake guilty ultimately accomplished was making fua-morph look disassociated and giving morph an opportunity to post a bunch of stuff that makes them appear town. And since the fake guilty, almost every comment morph has made about fua has been to assert how obviously town they are. I smell a very serious potential agenda in that if morph flips scum, beyond your normal "sucking up to a town slot"

He posts intent. I post my final reads and ask y'all to end this farce and let us go.

hmmmphh blah that doesn't feel like a particularly scummy last words post?? it's a little weird their only comment on me is "nothing clears him".

I'm gonna go out grocery shopping and then to a party in a bit so everyone else has a chance to say any last words, I'll hammer when I get home tonight in about 7-8 hours or so most likely

And then he goes on about how that post wasn't all that scummy but he's going to hammer anyway.

HE'S DISTANCING.

And he's trying to make our read of fua something it isn't. Remember. We're not saying fua is mech cleared. We're saying fua is uber town by play and we'd fight elimming them to the bitter end.

If GL is alive tomorrow, keep this farcical positioning on us in mind.

[morph the cat]

closed the spoiler in the wrong place.

Oh well

[morph the cat]

Fixing

My spoiler broke because GL's post contained spoilers, so I'm just linking to the post.


----------------------


I just want to point out a few things in GL's posts over the last couple of calendar days.

Morph is looking townier here then before but then why the style change?

how is morph looking townie? All they've done is tried to insist fua is mechanically conftown (when they're not), and then snarked at me for daring to re-evaluate on Shirou/nQ, all the while throwing up a bunch of AtE about how demoralized they are and how they'll laugh at town from the dead thread. It feels very much like agenda driven play, regardless of fua's alignment, I don't see any indicators of town trying to solve in what they're doing

We have not called fua mechanically conftown, I don't think. He's a GODTIER TOWNREAD. Which is something else altogether. We are not mech heavy players and this setup does not play to our strengths but, townread/POE is my bread and butter, and while Cabd's playstyle and method of forming reads is different from mine reads trump mech for both of us 99% of the time.

so I got home last night and started diving into morph's ISO with the hopes of detailing out a convincing scum case, and honestly it just made me more confused because I don't think they're really as scummy in ISO as I had been thinking. As I was trying to detail my points out it didn't feel like something I super genuinely/earnestly thought was strongly indicative.

I still think the gamestate largely points to them scum, but their associatives with redtea are only loosely incriminating at best. in that it's how smart scum would distance with a partner and make a show about how they don't TR them while not directly pushing very often to get them limmed. but at the same time it's not hard for me to imagine it being town. and when I got to the D2 fake guilty interaction with fua, it's quite smooth fakery if it was a reaction to a town player claiming a guilty on them.

I'll still highlight the stuff I've been looking at in a little bit so that my ISO dive isn't totally wasted, but I'm not gonna pretend like this is better material than it is. basically if morph is scum here, it's a good performance, because I am not walking away from this exercise feeling better about the read

The above feels like hedging and distancing. He doesn't think our ISO is as scummy as he originally thought but he's still going to write it all up. He's already positioning for our townflip and I imagine will be oh so...what was it? egg on face? I think he was talking about shirou when he used that comment earlier.

huge wall of our posts: 3526

Not gonna lie, I have not even skimmed this wall. Before he posted it he indicated it wasn't all that convincing, even to him.

I'll give

intent to hammer

morph but let them have some time to express any last reads or response to anything, so it's not imminent.

One thing I want to make very clear - if morph flips scum and I die tonight,

please do not locktown fua

. The

best

point in fua's favor as to why they are town is no kill on N1, but this is not totally out of the ballpark of an intentional scum gambit. And I do think if morph flips scum, we need to revisit and discuss fua's fake guilty on them, because all that fake guilty ultimately accomplished was making fua-morph look disassociated and giving morph an opportunity to post a bunch of stuff that makes them appear town. And since the fake guilty, almost every comment morph has made about fua has been to assert how obviously town they are. I smell a very serious potential agenda in that if morph flips scum, beyond your normal "sucking up to a town slot"

He posts intent. I post my final reads and ask y'all to end this farce and let us go.

hmmmphh blah that doesn't feel like a particularly scummy last words post?? it's a little weird their only comment on me is "nothing clears him".

I'm gonna go out grocery shopping and then to a party in a bit so everyone else has a chance to say any last words, I'll hammer when I get home tonight in about 7-8 hours or so most likely

And then he goes on about how the final reads post wasn't all that scummy but he's going to hammer anyway.

HE'S DISTANCING.

And he's trying to make our read of fua something it isn't. Remember. We're not saying fua is mech cleared. We're saying fua is uber town by play and we'd fight elimming them to the bitter end.

If GL is alive tomorrow, keep this farcical positioning on us in mind.

[morph the cat]

we're town.

good luck.

[morph the cat]

enjoy the responsibility.

[morph the cat]

We're not trolling.

You could be using twilight to tweak plans with that info, but you do you.

[morph the cat]

what?

fua is locktown to us.

By play Shirou is probably more town based on GuyInFreezer's metric. the strange stuff with nsg cast a shadow, though. Which happens to be the slot shirou innoed today.

[morph the cat]

nq innoed ceph. who hasn't done much with conftown status.

[morph the cat]

there I said it

[morph the cat]

still think ceph is town though.

this game is really dense info wise

[morph the cat]

morph, are you comfortable with killing nQ tomorrow? Since we're in twilight I guess.

not really.

[morph the cat]

GL,

though it's complicated by the n5 doc claim. you get just one now if he's town.

[morph the cat]

Meg and ceph claims should help sort that.

[morph the cat]

it's 3 am, we're dead and I'm posting about this game. intervention needed.

[morph the cat]

it's been an off game for us. good luck.

[morph the cat]

I think you leading town is an issue.

[morph the cat]

what a leadership vacuum.

[morph the cat]

let's see...

your approach helped elim a dr.

[morph the cat]

GG all and GJ town!

Sorry we had such an off game.

[morph the cat]

And thanks, catboi! The game was really well modded and your flavor was a highlight!