Open 180 - 3 of 5 / Out in the Wilde (Game Over!)

[hohum]

=O le gasp! That's impressive. Anyways, down to business.

Who are the scum buddies?

Vote: MrSuave

for stating the obvious.

[hohum]

or rather asking an obvious question.

[hohum]

BTW a miller in an open setup where the cop's sanity is known is a worthless fucking role. Saberwolf should be treated as if he just claimed vanilla.

Also, shame on you for claiming.

[hohum]

@mod: how about a round of prods?

Sounds good to me. Mass prods for everyone! ~Nikanor

The topic has been open for 2 days now people! We have a claim and a couple of semi-random votes on the table so there's plenty to talk about!

Get busy posting or get busy dying!

[hohum]

I've never seen a miller role where the miller is unaware of the fact.

miller in an open setup where the cop's sanity is known is a worthless fucking role.

Speculating like this won't do us any good.

Try doing some scum hunting.

[hohum]

then feel free to complain out of topic when the game is over.

[hohum]

I would think it's rather obvious.

[hohum]

hohum, would you rather he claimed

after

the cop (if there is one) said "hey, I have a guilty on saber" instead of before?

And no, you can't compare claiming VT to claiming miller in this setup.

FoS: hohum.

About the only thing they both do is tell scum not to waste time assuming he's a useful PR (but the miller claim should also make him more or less confirmed/unlynchable).

I don't think it makes him confirmed or unlynchable at all. You're operating under the assumption that he's telling the truth.

Think about it.

Miller in this setup is a worthless role.

I'm pretty sure that because no one has counter claimed, he's pretty much confirmed. I too am having suspicions of why hohum is so negative towards this claim. Really, that claim would only negativly affect scum. =O... just saaaaaaying

Read the setup carefully. There MAY be a miller, there MAY not be. Don't discount a possible gambit here. That's all I'm trying to say.

I'm not saying for sure that he's lying but I'm also not rushing to the conclusion that he's cleared.

All claims should be taken with a grain of salt and early claims are rarely productive.

[hohum]

would you rather he claimed after the cop

If he were really the miller I would rather him stopped to analyze the setup prior to the claim. The default reaction of a claiming miller is only useful to test cop sanities. We don't need to do that in this case so there was no need to claim.

[hohum]

that's a good point I suppose.

[hohum]

this also seems like it could be plausable, and this is why his playstyle is so dangerous. policy lynch!

unvote vote:hohum

[b/]

Pushing for a policy lynch before anyone has had a chance to scum hunt is scummy. Not to mention your vote for me looks like a delayed OMGUS to my semi-random vote earlier.

I like my vote where it is for now.

Fixed quote tags. ~Nik

[hohum]

oh my bad

unvote vote:hohum

and the reason I bring it up, is because from the sound of his playstyle, it's like saying, "I'm mafia!" in a RL game of mafia which will be an automatic lynch on that guy, because he/she can say that every game, and eventually people would just start to assume that they're just being dumb and won't look into in, even if that person is indeed scum. that's all I'm saying. and no, it's not an omgus vote, or I would have done that to ToD.

I've never played with you before so you really don't know anything about my play style.

I can't believe you're seriously hiding behind someone else's assessment of my meta to justify pushing for a page 3 policy lynch.

*facepalm*

Confirm Vote: MrSuave

You should have a sign around your neck that says "I'm scum, I'm taking the easy way out"

[hohum]

Well, this game sounds like an overeager jumping fest. =_=

It would be helpful if you specified what you're reacting to.

[hohum]

I kind of figured that's what you were reacting to, so I prepared some questions for you.

1) How would you suggest we go about scum hunting?

2) Do you support policy lynches? If so, in what circumstances are they appropriate.

[hohum]

1) Latch on to something that doesn't seem right. For example, the fact that MrSuave votes me first, while I'm the one most prone to be able to readhim as I played lotsa games with him, is strange.

Do you not believe my vote on MrSuave is justified based on this notion? Does it seem right to you that MrSuave is pushing for my policy lynch, or am I over reacting?

Is this why your vote remains on saberwolf? Do you believe he is fakeclaiming?

This is an excellent point, especially since you yourself just pointed out a reason for you to vote MrSuave.

For example, the fact that MrSuave votes me first, while I'm the one most prone to be able to readhim as I played lotsa games with him, is strange

Why aren't you backing that up with a vote?

[hohum]

@Mod: I think it's time to replace Antihero and prod ToD

[hohum]

that's because I'm not scum, DURR

You're at L-1. Are you even going to try and contribute anything to this game? If you are scum you're making this too easy and if you're town you're really shooting us in the foot.

[hohum]

If not, then I will hammer.

Slow down there, hoss. Don't hammer until we at minimum have a claim. It's only page 4, after all.

[hohum]

Putting Mr. Suave at L-1 seems... hasty, to say the least. I'd at least like to hear from Trumpet of Doom, and a claim from Mr. Suave.

I think it's clear that nobody is going to hammer until some more discussion takes place so I don't have a problem with him being at L-1.

[hohum]

Mr. Suave voters: Please respond to post 83.

I don't really understand why Mr. Suave would (if he's scum) push for a hohum lynch when the votes weren't there.

Feel free to ask him about his motives. I for one can't speak intelligently to that subject and asking us to speculate won't do anyone any good.

Are you trying to infer that pushing for a policy lynch on page 4, (and not even based on his own experiences, mind you) isn't a scummy thing to do? That's not the Alduskkel that I know and love: normally you'd be throwing a tantrum by now.

[hohum]

For the record I'm all for policy lynches, but there are pro-town ways to push for a policy lynch and there are scummy ways to do it. What Suave is doing falls into the latter category.

[hohum]

Alduskkel: if you're Suave's scum partner you'd do better to bus him.

[hohum]

To add to that I don't like how he crated this shitstorm for himself and then he disappears.

@Mod: I think we need more prods

[hohum]

Not to mention the fact that he spreads the policy lynch propaganda out over multiple posts.

[hohum]

he's really committed to this asinine meta lynch and he clearly intends on being as uncooperative as humanly possible. Someone hammer, please.

[hohum]

If you really are the doc then you just played a horrible game. Thanks for sinking us.

[hohum]

Top suspects:

Alduskkel: Your insistence on Suave being town despite the fact that not a single thing he did was pro town almost makes you look as if you knew he was town.

Trumpet of Doom: for the scummy unvote yesterday.

Vote: Alduskkel

[hohum]

EBWOP:

Vote: Alduskkel

Let's see where this day takes us.

[hohum]

hohum, explain to me how my reasoning that Mr. Suave's actions, while not pro-Town, were not scum tells either, was flawed.

Your level of certainty gives you away. It means you had inside knowledge that only scum would have

[hohum]

And what exactly is scummy about ToD's unvote, by the way?

Go read it. In a single breath he goes from unvoting to saying "I STILL THINK HE'S SCUMMY"

His inability to insert himself into the discussion is troubling. Post 127 screams "I can't form an opinion" to me.

What makes you think I was so certain?

Well that was some terrible play on Suave's part.

QFT

He had 5 other people in this thread fooled and yet you somehow had the clarity of vision to see through some of the worst doc play on site? I don't buy that at all.

And why didn't anyone unvote (or, for Santos, why did you hammer) when it was clear that Mr. Suave was basically claiming Doctor?

After a mislynch a common scum tactic is to cycle through a wagon and lay the blame on thick. Seems to be what you're laying down the foundation to do here.

[hohum]

Vote: Santos

I sure as hell hope you're planning to do more than lurk today.

[hohum]

You're my top suspect from yesterday, and you're not doing anything to lessen that suspicion today. FoS... screw it, Vote: hohum.

The only thing I've done today was

accuse you of being scum

and raise some very legitimate points about Alduskkel's play. Your reaction seems very OMGUSy.

Quote tags fixed. ~Nik

[hohum]

hohum, explain to me how my reasoning that Mr. Suave's actions, while not pro-Town, were not scum tells either, was flawed.

He had 5 other people in this thread fooled and yet you somehow had the clarity of vision to see through some of the worst doc play on site? I don't buy that at all.

So you're attacking me for being a good player? Real good scum hunting there bro.

Nice attempt at misdirection. I'm saying you knew for a fact that he was town and that's the only inside information that scum would have.

Quote tags fixed. ~Nik

[hohum]

hohum, explain to me how my reasoning that Mr. Suave's actions, while not pro-Town, were not scum tells either, was flawed.

If you can't answer this quote, then my logic stands, and thus I had good cause to believe that he was pro-Town.

Let's try this a different way. If you want to convince anyone that you don't have inside knowledge of the setup you need to point out *ONE* pro-town thing he did.

[hohum]

hohum, explain to me how my reasoning that Mr. Suave's actions, while not pro-Town, were not scum tells either, was flawed.

If you can't answer this quote, then my logic stands, and thus I had good cause to believe that he was pro-Town.

Let's try this a different way. If you want to convince anyone that you don't have inside knowledge of the setup you need to point out *ONE* pro-town thing he did.

I never said he was pro-Town. I said he wasn't scum. Big difference.

Not really. You're either town or you aren't There's no gray area.

I like my vote.

[hohum]

Alduskkel: You're arguing over something that amounts to semantics. Try to stay on topic here: What reason did you have to call us out for wagoning MrSuave. What about his play style gave you a pro-town vibe? Why did you insist on attempting to tear his wagon down?

Hint: arguing the semantics of what constitutes anti-town play and what constitutes a scum tell won't get you anywhere. Semantics rarely catch scum and there are people in this thread who disagreed with you enough to keep their votes on Suave.

[hohum]

I've got nothing to add besides this: If you're going to lynch santos then you might as well lynch me too because I'm the one that asked him to hammer.

[hohum]

calling Alduskkel+Trumpet of Doom now.

[hohum]

your whole argument seems to be based on "well that's too obvious for scum to do, so that's anti-town".

I've seen a lot of noobscum make those sorts of mistakes in my hayday. Even people who are disagreeing with me are calling his actions scummy and his execution poor... If you are really town, Aluduskkel, you'd do better drop this ridiculous line you're on of trying to blame his wagoneers for lynching him and start going after scum.

Your reaction to his wagon is what earned you my vote and your persistence that you could see something that nobody else here did has kept it on you.

BTW I can use the same argument that you're using: You have yet to explain why his actions were more anti-town than scummy.

[hohum]

the scum motivation is to get someone lynched other than themselves.

[hohum]

the scum motivation is to get someone lynched other than themselves.

Except that scum are also not going to try this if they don't think they have a shot at it. Since no one was expressing real suspicion on you, there wasn't a scum motivation.

You're giving him too much credit.

[hohum]

he's talking about scum motivations because he's scum.

Alduskkel: I think it's time for you to claim now.

[hohum]

Not claiming at L-1 is scummy.

Does that mean that you want a claim from me, dramonic? I only think it's worthwhile to claim if someone indicates that they're going to hammer.

I wouldn't mind seeing you hammered.

[hohum]

I never attempted to discredit Saber's claim. I looked at it in a skeptical light, and I later changed my mind.

[hohum]

I never attempted to discredit Saber's claim. I looked at it in a skeptical light, and I later changed my mind.

To support this notion: My D1 vote was never on Saber, not even for a second.

[hohum]

I never attempted to discredit Saber's claim. I looked at it in a skeptical light, and I later changed my mind.

To support this notion: My D1 vote was never on Saber, not even for a second.

[hohum]

apologies for the double post.

[hohum]

Trumpet: I noticed you conveniently left out the very last thing I said to or about Saberwolf on D1:

that's a good point I suppose.

Post 37. A direct response to Saber's post 36

You're making a scum case on me based on my faulty assumptions. I let go of those assumptions a long time ago.

[hohum]

I don't really give a shit how many different ways you try to phrase it to support your case. It's based on a position which I abandoned long ago. Scummy.

Go ahead and lynch me if you want, it's not going to bode well for you if I flip.

[hohum]

you know what, I'm getting tired of going around in circles with you. You're pushing a scummy case.

Unvote, Vote Trumpet of Doom

I'd rather deal with trying to talk some sense into Alduskkel tomorrow.

[hohum]

Go read it. In a single breath he goes from unvoting to saying "I STILL THINK HE'S SCUMMY"

Fail, hohum. That was my random vote, which I took off because Suave was at L-1 on page 4 and I was unintentionally contributing to said wagon. (81 was an antiprod, I just saw that you thought it was time to prod me and decided something needed to be said.)

My random vote was on suave and I kept it on suave because I found him suspicious. You as much as said you thought he was suspicious but you removed your vote anyways. You don't remove a random vote for the sake of removing a random vote if you have a negative read on someone. Hence: scummy unvote.

@Dramonic: more analysis from you please. You're remarkably quiet this game. Quite unlike you.

[hohum]

EBWOP: screwed up the quote tags. Fixed for clarity.

Go read it. In a single breath he goes from unvoting to saying "I STILL THINK HE'S SCUMMY"

Fail, hohum. That was my random vote, which I took off because Suave was at L-1 on page 4 and I was unintentionally contributing to said wagon. (81 was an antiprod, I just saw that you thought it was time to prod me and decided something needed to be said.)

My random vote was on suave and I kept it on suave because I found him suspicious. You as much as said you thought he was suspicious but you removed your vote anyways. You don't remove a random vote for the sake of removing a random vote if you have a negative read on someone. Hence: scummy unvote.[/quote]

@Dramonic: more analysis from you please. You're remarkably quiet this game. Quite unlike you.

Fixed broken tags. ~Nik

[hohum]

this thread needs more Trumpet lynching.

[hohum]

@Santos: do you want your actions to draw votes?

[hohum]

why aren't we lynching ToD?

[hohum]

if you think so you're sadly mistaken. People here besides me keep telling you how scummy your case is. You're not listening, because you're either an idiot, or scummy. If you're town your stubbornness is going to put us in lylo, if you're scum good riddance.

[hohum]

If you can't be flexible with your opinions then you're doing the town a grave disservice. As soon as I realized I was wrong I abandoned my stance on Saber's wagon. You seem to want to hold onto your convictions to the bitter end no matter how wrong you are. You call my play anti-town but what you're doing right now is infinitely worse.

People plural? I see one: DeathSauce. And he's only done that once.

ToD is over Hohum with a dubious case

It wasn't until after this that you called him scummy. Dubious indeed. You attacked me after I called you scummy and then you attacked him after he called you out for having a weak case.

That at least proves that you aren't even paying attention to the thread and you're just trying to get me lynched without considering the fine details. Hint: This is a scum tell because scum have no vested interest in fine details.

I've also seen some leading questions from Santos regarding your case on me, followed by a FoS (for an admittedly stupid and unrelated reason) which indicates to me that he's at least more receptive to my point of view rather than yours. I'd like him to elaborate on his thoughts.

[hohum]

I did, scum.

[hohum]

Top of post 268.

You can't accuse me of question dodging just because you don't like the answer that I gave. It doesn't work like that.

Add alduskkel to the pile of people who are telling you that you're completely full of shit. Now you're trying desperately to think of another reason to keep tunneling on me because your flimsy case is falling apart.

[hohum]

Quote it to me, then.

Come on, say something. I know you're still logged in and stalking the thread. I can see you on the main page.

You've been looking for an argument for a while now and your incessant need to always get the last word in paints a shade of desperation on your face like I've never seen before.

What are you waiting for? You're not in any other games right now, you're not posting in GD, you're not in mish-mash, so I know you don't have anything better to do with your time.

Let's go! Post some more fail to the thread, please!

[hohum]

He was a minute ago. Oh well. I'm sure he'll have something incredibly ignorant to say when he comes back.

[hohum]

So , hohum, Trumpy is tunneling on you (thanks for that term whoever said it, exactly what I was trying to say)

But why is your vote on ToD? Seems like OMGUS to me, just because a player is pushing a (your) lynch doesn't make them scummy.

It's the other way around. Trumpet didn't throw his vote on me until after I started making a case on him. I was perfectly happy to continue pressing Alduskkel for a better read.

Whether the case is on me or someone else it's still a scummy case. I just call them like I see them.

[hohum]

*2nd note to self: wasn't analyzing and determining the validity of others' point of view part of the game of mafia?*

Oh, fuck my life, it is!

Well, scum team Santos/TrumpetofDoom is effed from that piece of work above.

Uh. Am I reading this correctly? Did you just out yourself and your scum partner?

[hohum]

Then please explain exactly what you meant by the last line of the post I quoted.

[hohum]

Why such a tasteless joke? What role does sarcasm have in scum hunting? How is that even remotely helpful to the town?

FoS: Trumpet of Doom

, its unsettling how I am getting no pressure from you or hohum in this game. Usually its me against everyone and now I'm just straight up weirded out that my actions so far in this game aren't drawing votes. Perhaps that means I am finally doing well to not have votes against me on the first or second day?

You've been begging for us to pay attention to you all game. Are you seriously this much of a narcissist?

[hohum]

In case you were wondering those weren't rhetorical questions. I expect answers from you, Santos. More than just one liners, please.

[hohum]

I am selfish a lot in games

You're not cute. What you're doing right now is pretty fucking far from amusing, and you're really irritating me.

but I'm not a quitting piece of shit player.

Allow me to fix that for you:

but I'm

not

a

quitting piece of

shit player.

[hohum]

Whatever. I have thick skin. And no, I don't want to talk to hohum.

And if ppl think I'm appealing to motion, change the record or observe the meta because me being lynched all the time is getting old for the same reason game to game. So instead of belittling me, try and help me help you.

If it's getting old maybe you should take the hint and fix your play style.

Yes, using Ad Hominem is sure to help you get your point accross.

I'm getting frustrated because nobody is participating in this game. Maybe I should take a play from your play book and start doing color commentary.

[hohum]

It'd be particularly fascinating.
Look, we're locked in a situation where basically everyone has done stupidly scummy stuff, once someone dies we can hope the game will regain some speed

I'm starting to think you're scum just laying back watching us pick each other off. You've been remarkably quiet all game long so that nobody can get a read on you and your hands off policy when it comes to lynching someone is about as good for the town as Santos' claiming scum, malpascp's lurking and MrSuave pushing for a policy lynch on page 3.

You need to make a case on someone and you need to do it now.

[hohum]

I agree that it should be Santos.

I strongly disagree.

I as well. I wouldn't mind seeing Santos lynched but we already lynched one idiot this game. I want to get a better read on him first.

@hohum: Yeah, when I played with dram-town, he was much more of a presence in the game. I think I'll actually

Unvote; Vote: dramonic

for mainly that reason.

Agreed (surprisingly). Fighting with you is getting me nowhere, so I'll hop onto your wagon.

Unvote, Vote: Dramonic

I'll even go as far as to back you up with a vote.

[hohum]

@Mod: I hope you're paying attention to the replacement queue

malpascp just got replaced in a different game. Would you mind replacing him in this one? He's obviously a flaker (and not just lurking), plus we could use some fresh perspective here.

[hohum]

I think the idea that dramonic is more "off-hands" in his playstyle than in another Town game is just a detail of the big picture: namely, that this game is going a bit slow at the moment.

There's very little reason on D2 or on Page 13 for the game to be running slowly. It means someone is not participating, therefore someone needs to be blamed, questioned and quite possibly lynched. That's what we're doing.

You would take an adversarial role if I told you that it was night time outside. Get with the program and stop encouraging people to stay in the shadows.

[hohum]

Hint: If hohum and I are agreeing on something, there's probably something to it.

Well golly gee, I didn't know that you and hohum was the greatest mafia players EVAR! I'll completely subsume my own intellect from this point on and completely follow whatever the two of you have to say! </sarcasm>

contentless post noted.

At least when I'm being an asshole I'm making a point.

[hohum]

Vote Count.

[hohum]

I see we've got a replacement now.

I'm driving cross-country but my clutch gave out. I'll be stuck in central texas for a few days as a result. I'll catch up and post shortly.

[hohum]

"waves at Hohum"

OMGHAI2U2

Short read. Game is still lagging and I don't like it. I expected a couple of more pages by now.

Just a question for you DTM: Would you be satisfied if someone hammered Santos right now? If so, why?

Do you have experience playing with Santos? If so can you point out the difference between Santos-scum and Santos-town?

I'm happy to lynch Santos in almost any situation. My only regret this game is having had to lynch Suave first. I can sense that Santos is frustrated but I'm having a difficult time deciding if its genuine or manufactured.

@Santos: This would be an excellent opportunity for you to claim. This would be an excellent time to go on ad nauseum about why we shouldn't lynch you.

Your appeal to emotion is noted and ignored.

Logical fallacies be damned, we need to keep Santos talking. I don't really care at this point. Let him emote. It's the only way we're going to get an accurate read on him.

[hohum]

DTM: What is your opinion on Santos' early play. Especially: the hammer.

[hohum]

BTW I have a unique perspective on Santos because I'm modding a game where he's still alive, but it's an ongoing game so I really can't go into any details.

[hohum]

after a quick glance Santos doesn't appear to be at L-1. It looks like you unvoted (L-3) and then revoted (l-2)

[hohum]

Santos' wagon is being pushed by scum, methinks.

Unvote, Vote: DeathSauce

[hohum]

*facepalm* Why would you claim VT before L-1, except during massclaim?

I'm glad he claimed. It cleared him as far as I'm concerned.

[hohum]

In light of Santos' claim I'd like to propose a game breaking strategy.

The wording of the role PMs are screwed up enough that we can clear all the VTs at once and narrow the suspect pool down considerably.

@All VTs

Please pick a unique word out of either the third or fourth sentence in your role PM and post it in thread.

[hohum]

I didn't realize the Role PMs were on the first page

[hohum]

ToD: If you liked my vote so much, why are you still voting dramonic?

As of this moment if we make it to wednesday stuck in this infinite cycle of lurking and sniping at each other Santos will be the lynchee. I don't want that to happen.

[hohum]

I believe that's a lynch.

If I die tonight or fall off the planet (which may happen here some time very soon given the precarious situation I'm in right now), please lynch DTMaster tomorrow.

Here's why:

If anything has convinced me that he's scum it's post 343.

He lists valid reasons that he's scum, and he's included scum notes on everyone but me (curious). He backs my assessment of santos' early play but then proceeds to vote him for policy reasons (even after we mislynched suave for trying to push a policy lynch). See post 348

Notice he denounces mal's actions but backs mal's vote.

He calls it a policy lynch in 348 but lists reasons that santos is scummy.

He places his vote on santos and then disappears V/LA until deadline

[hohum]

if I'm wrong and DeathSauce is not scum then the correct call is Dramonic+Trumpet of Doom, likely santos substitute for one of the two of them.

[hohum]

I'm down with that

Vote: DTMaster

[hohum]

oops, sorry I was NKed.

Bah and/or Go Town!