Open 208 - Fire & Ice Mafia >Over!<

[DarkLightA]

RV: Scott

for being the only one with a two-word-capitalized name =P

Crazy: Do you prefer townie or doc?
Deer: Do you prefer scum or town?
ICEninja: What's your favorite role, and why?
Mindgamer: What would you do if I voted you right now?
pwnman: Do you play other MMORPGs?
RayFrost: Hi again =) Let's try to get along better this time, eh? XD
SaintKerrigan: Do you prefer ice or fire?
Sanhora: How active are you?
Scott Brosius: Where are you from?
XScorpion: How long have you been here for?

---

I'm GMT+1

[DarkLightA]

You're right. I'm confusing you for SensFan

And your second statement is false. They were the ones who lost it for us. =)

[DarkLightA]

....by getting conversation started

[DarkLightA]

I am from NY.

*Epic facepalm at myself for not looking properly at your avatar*

Well, the date next to my name says August 2009 so I'll go with that.

*Epic facepalm at myself for not looking properly at your info*

DarkLight, how do you feel that gaining someone's preferences on roles or other games they play starts discussion? Doesn't it seem too much like rolefishing, as the responses probably aren't going to merit a counter response?

Well, I'd say that any questions trigger conversation, and that it's a nice addition to isos anyway.


----- @ the pwnman issue -------

Okay, this wagon is total BS.

Look:

Pwn's vote is now hiding in all these posts and nobody took the opportunity to ask for his reason. Pwn, can you state it?

My reasons was for Mindgamer's first post.

Vote ICE

Obvouisly Fire Mafia

I think that he is either Ice Mafia or Fire Mafia. So yeah

Sure, not well explained, but not worth a BW!

Pwn says it's because of mindgamer's post which seems random. So my thoughts are that it's just a misinterpretation of a random vote. It's normal for newer players.

Vote: XScorpion

for starting off this crap.

[DarkLightA]

Still, I think this looks un-scummish, for both of you... Looks like just innocent stuff, only based on weak theories.

[DarkLightA]

Sure, it's probably a joke. That's what I was thinking.

This gives me a flashback of when I was new. A post like:
"Haha! I'm voting you as you were scum in our last game." in RVS, would be replied to by me as:
"OMG!!!! HOLY COW!!! UBER SCUM SLIP!!!!"

So basically, I'm pretty sure this wagon is just rubbish.

[DarkLightA]

Wtf was that about Xscorpion?

---

DTmaster: SK is pressuring pwnman, sure. I think he's wrong. Anyway, your vote seems like total BS.

All this "piggybacking", find quotes supporting it directly. As far as I see, it's as weak as the pwnman deal.

vote: DTMaster

[DarkLightA]

Eh... yeah... I don't really see much to do, sorry. :/

My joke could be interpreted as a scumslip. I don't like how Crazy refuses to understand that.

Unvote. Vote: Crazy

Bandwagon go!

/goes back to lurking

This. Is. Awful.

Unvote: Pwnman. Vote: Mindgamer.

How does Crazy not thinking Mindgamer's joke could be a scumslip make him scum?

This is obviously a joke from Mindgamer's side.

FoS: SaintKerrigan

Try to avoid jumping on EVERY joke you see, will you?

----

Dry-fit, XScorpion, Darox, Yosarian; we need more contribution from your spots.

I think you're posting in the wrong game. ~Nik

[DarkLightA]

@Darklight A
You sir are SK's scum buddy if you don't address what's BS about my vote.

I don't think many people would have that opinion

Anyway, this is why: Your suspicion started with a misinterpretation of a joke, and you haven't added much more to the case afterwards.

----

Welcome nachomamma =)

[DarkLightA]

unvote

I have to think this through.

[DarkLightA]

Vote: XScorpion

....Seriously dude??

[DarkLightA]

Darklight, why are you voting Scorpion? You're better than that

I just find his play totally stupid. I'm in to lynch stupid players if it's for the good of the town.

I dunno, maybe you're right, and that there's someone else, staying in the shadows. I'll keep my eyes open.

unvote

for now.

HoS: XScorpion

You're not off the hook.

[DarkLightA]

Okay, so here's my read on everyone so far:

Crazy:
Putting pressure on the pwnman wagon. Seems weird however that he can't see that pwnman misunderstood a joke, and that this is what lead to the situation. Slight scum read.

I believe I've said before that the "piggybacking" isn't scummy in isolation; it's only scummy when you combine it with the fact that PWNMAN DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THE CASE!

Deer:
Seems logical and understanding. Not much to say though. Slight town read.

DTMaster:
Doesn't seem to get too hung up with small issues. Good contribution and scum hunting. Town read.

ICEninja:
Good content, but a little scummy. A slight scum read.

Mindgamer:
Seems unserious about the whole deal. Just playing along. Scum read.

Nachomamma:
As with mindgamer, seems to be playing along. Neutral read.

pwnman:
I don't understand how you can't see that he's just a misunderstood newbie. Newbies make mistakes. Newbies don't understand jokes. Town read.

RayFrost:
Not much to comment upon. However I believe him. Town read.

SaintKerrigan:
Lots of posts but not much contribution towards finding scum. I don't know what, but his posts seem to set off my alarm. Scum read.

Sanhora:
Nothing to read.

Scott Brosius:
Seems to just ride along with the others. Slight scum read.

XScorpion:
... No contribution. Just seems like an annoying character. Scum read. But as you say, it wouldn't be how a mafia would act.. Either way I find it scummy -.- This is just stupid.

TOWN

DTMaster
pwnman
RayFrost

SLIGHT TOWN

Deer

NEUTRAL

Nachomamma

NEUTRAL

Crazy
ICEninja

SLIGHTLY SCUM

Mindgamer
SaintKerrigan
XScorpion

SCUM

NO READ

Sanhora

[DarkLightA]

Vote: Mindgamer

Just starting somewhere.

[DarkLightA]

ICEninja:
Good content, but a little scummy. A slight scum read.

Could you point out what makes you feel my good content is slightly scummy?

Just human instincts. I get a feeling of a scumminess in it all, including this inquiry.

Mindgamer:

Seems unserious about the whole deal.

Just playing along. Scum read.

Nachomamma:
As with mindgamer, seems to be playing along. Neutral read.

You have the same comment about both of these players, where one gets a scum read and the other gets a neutral read. What sets them apart?

The bolded part is the difference, which is only in mindgamer's and not in nachomamma's.

RayFrost:
Not much to comment upon. However I believe him. Town read.

He replaced out long ago. He also contributed a similar amount of content as Sanhora, so i don't see where you can possible have gotten a town read.

I did.

Vote: Mindgamer

Just starting somewhere.

Unless I am misinterpreting your scale of who is scum and who is town, you're voting for the person who you find 3rd scummiest. Why not start with Kerrigan or XScorpion, who fall even closer to the scummy read?

If you insist on Mindgamer, tell us what specifically he has done that makes you feel he merits a vote.

Sorry, I realized that might be unclear. It's not a ladder scale, but a category scale. I'm reciding a bit on XScorpion.

[DarkLightA]

unvote
Vote: DarkLightA

Don't listen to what other people tell you. You should vote who you think is the scummiest and disregard if people tell you "oh maybe he's just stupid town." If you keep thinking that about everyone, you will never catch scum.
And yes I understand the paradox about telling someone to not listen to what people say.

Yeah, I find your posts scummy, awkwards, odd...

But as other people have pointed out, you being scum would be a gamble, as I don't quite see a mafia acting like this.. I reckon they'd be killed off early, and that's not what scum want.

Basically, I don't think you'd be a good addition to any scum team

So then again, maybe you're just a stupid townie.

-------

About the ICEninja issue: Those reads were much for personal use. I read based on gut feeling, and it has had a tendency to be right in the past.

[DarkLightA]

ICEninja
If you insist on Mindgamer, tell us what specifically he has done that makes you feel he merits a vote.

DarkLightA
Sorry, I realized that might be unclear. It's not a ladder scale, but a category scale. I'm reciding a bit on XScorpion.

This is not an answer to the question.

Ahaha, you little smarty-pants. Putting words in people's mouthes now?

Vote: Mindgamer

Just starting somewhere.

Unless I am misinterpreting your scale of who is scum and who is town, you're voting for the person who you find 3rd scummiest. Why not start with Kerrigan or XScorpion, who fall even closer to the scummy read?

If you insist on Mindgamer, tell us what specifically he has done that makes you feel he merits a vote.

Sorry, I realized that might be unclear. It's not a ladder scale, but a category scale. I'm reciding a bit on XScorpion.[/quote]

So, you seem like the most scummy to me, so I vote you. =)

---------

Also, use

[/ quote] Instead of [ quote]Name[/ quote]

---------

I've got my eye on you Mindgamer!

DT looks bad, Mindgamer looks bad, pwnman looks bad, and XScorpion looks bad.

Mindgamer is hardcore lurking

...and you're asking why I'm voting him?

Ah, what ever...

unvote

There are better candidates of being scum.


--------

So, it's on to the next one:

Vote: StK

[DarkLightA]

Okay, that vote was meant for me to be a base in scum hunting, but as you guys seem to not like it:

Unvote

Now where do we start

[DarkLightA]

Okay, that vote was meant for me to be a base in scum hunting, but as you guys seem to not like it:

Just trying to get what you're saying... you voted SK in hopes that it would start getting other people to scum-hunt her? That's a weird way to do things, but at least it makes sense in the context of your post. *shrug*

No, you're misunderstanding.. It's more to see the reactions of people. Gives crucial info I've learned.

Also, Mindgamer, ICEninja's question (why I voted you, when there were 2 "more scummy" players on my scum radar) was answered by me explaining that these were not in order, and that I was residing on XScorpion. So, hence, you looked more scummy to me, so you earned my vote.

Now, however, I'm realising that you're not that scummy either, so I suddenly have a problem.

So there's one on my scum list left to go. =)

[DarkLightA]

Not Voting (0)

- DarkLightA

Not very nice

Sorry, Freudian slip. Fixed. ~Nik

[DarkLightA]

1. Why are you more concerned about looking good, rather then scum hunting? You started in Augest 09, this is March 10. I expected better posts then this.

I'm not. I'm scum hunting and analyzing at this moment.

2. Given that you have someone left on your scum list to analyze, why aren't you doing it now? Vote wise, and from your current posts.

Same answer.

SK ANALYZING RESULTS

SK personal info:

• SK is from Minnesota, and I can therefore assume that he is fluent in English

Okay here's a look at SK's iso:
Post numbers displayed on left.

0-1: RVS
2: Votes mindgamer because of this post

I like the RVS.

Vote: ICEninja
Obviously Fire Mafia.

My timezone is UTC+1 / GMT+1.

Where Mindgamer obviously states "This is a random vote." (paraphrased) followed by a vote and some obvious sarcasm.
3:

I'm pretty sure that's a joke, not a scumslip.

I don't think so.

Why specifically accuse him of being Fire Mafia? Seems like an Ice Mafia slip-up to me.

SERIOUSLY?????
4: Makes a

sarcastic

joke himself. (So he has some humor and understands sarcasm, plus he's fluent in English so he can't have misunderstood it in that way)
6: Unvotes Mindgamer, votes pwnman; states that he understands the joke, and that pwnman

didn't have the same

understanding and thoughts of the case as him [SK], so he [SK] votes him [pwnman].
7-13: Argues for the pwnman case
14: Suddenly says:

I agree that my case on Mindgamer was weak. It was an attempt to make something happen to jolt out the RVS (although at the time I agreed with my reasoning).

Wait, wait, wait...

Now he's saying that he UNDERSTOOD the Mindgamer sarcasm and pointed it out just to get the game out of RVS????

Add active lurking to that, and it deserves:

Vote: SK/replacement

Get well soon though! Good luck![/reverse]

[DarkLightA]

Umm, that [/reverse] tag wasn't meant to be there.


More analyses coming up

[DarkLightA]

Hold up, hold up..

So you're saying that I have to vote someone who isn't being voted on, otherwise I'll be scum? That's just too incorrect.

Yes, I think independently. I'm thinking outside of what I post. I have suspicions, and I'm testing it all out in-game.

[DarkLightA]

Hello =)

Replacing right into my vote

[DarkLightA]

Guys, read the beginning of pwnman's iso. (First 6 posts). It's clear that HE DID NOT ADAPT the theory, rather he stated it himself, and later said "and SK's is the same" not realizing that it wasn't.

Now StK jumps on and says "No, you're lying. They're not the same. And also, you adapted mine."

Everyone agrees, and a bandwagon starts.

[DarkLightA]

Hello =)

Replacing right into my vote

This was @danakillsu

[DarkLightA]

Welcome redcoyote.

@Bio Hazard: We really need contribution from your slot. What's your look on the game?

[DarkLightA]

This is obviously a joke from Mindgamer's side.

FoS: SaintKerrigan

Try to avoid jumping on EVERY joke you see, will you?

What's the joke?

As SK pointed out in the following post, I'd misunderstood. I was pointing towards the "Bandwagon go! /goes back to lurking" part.

This rubs me the wrong way. It looks like you are just throwing your vote around in an attempt to see if a BW will stick. There is no reasoning behind it.

I agree. DLA is putting on his best acting job as townie.

I tend to be the D1 lynch, so I try for the town's sake to avoid that now.... I've decided to change my meta, you see. I believe I posted that in the start.



------



About Deer:
I don't know.. Sure, he's riding on the wave of the others, pointing out the obvious. But scum? I don't know.

[DarkLightA]

DLA:

How important is the rest of town's opinion of you? Do you disagree that it is scummy to unvote just because people are upset about it, as you did with StK (before revoting)?

That unvote was more of an attempt to prove that you don't get anywhere without starting somewhere. In that example, I tried to get a base vote, and get information based on it.

In my games I tend to not really care about the other players' opinions about me. I'm more focussed on using different ways to find scum, one of which you pointed out above.

[DarkLightA]

That unvote was more of an attempt to prove that you don't get anywhere without starting somewhere. In that example, I tried to get a base vote, and get information based on it.

Hold on, you were trying to prove

theory to us. You weren't trying to scum hunt via your vote/unvote reactions from people?

The eff? Summarize your conclusions now please.

Firstly, I tend to look for vote reactionos, not too much on unvote reactions. However, I do note people's reactions during all times, and my AtE's as you call them.
Thirdly, as Nachomamma said, a pressure vote with scum hunting [NOT LYNCHING!!!] motives gets crushed when under suspicion.

Pressure +1 is definitely needed in this avenue.

Vote Deer

Pressure votes tend to work better without a note saying "This is a pressure vote!"

-----

@ICEninja: You had a case on me. Nachomamma shreaded it before I could come and say it was BS too. Now you don't have a case on me. However, you still have me as your #1 suspect. Why?

-----

Regarding the Deer issue: I'm not in favour of a Deer lynch, but re-reading his meta, I see some scummy points. I will be on his wagon at DL if nothing new happens, to get the game started.

[DarkLightA]

@LL: It's not hard to find scummy points in basically everyone's play, so I try not to concentrate on details but rather a player's way as a whole.

Okay, but I've read into Deer's meta in detail now, and I must say, his play is both hillarious and hypocritical (accusing others for what he does himself)...

-----
Checkup on the votes for me:

Scott:

Vote: Mindgamer

Just starting somewhere.

Ah, what ever...

unvote

There are better candidates of being scum.


--------

So, it's on to the next one:

Vote: StK

This rubs me the wrong way. It looks like you are just throwing your vote around in an attempt to see if a BW will stick. There is no reasoning behind it.

Vote: DarkLightA

It surprises me that you didn't recognize this as scum hunting, fairly experienced as you are. What is your look on me now?

ICE: Your case has been ripped apart. What is your look on that, seeing as you ignored it completely?

Deer:

vote: DarkLightA

You're just trying to start some sort of bandwagon, it seems, without any reasoning behind it. I just asked you to explain the SK vote, since you did it without anything to say about him. I don't like it one bit.

Too sad to be funny. This is just too hypocritical. TOO hypocritical.

I want all of you three, Scott, ICEninja and Deer to explain your cases on me fully. Thank you.

That's all for now,
DLA

[DarkLightA]

@LL: I believe I've answered this exact question before: I have a tendency to be the D1 lynch because I just into situations, but now, in both of my games, I'm trying to be a bit more helpful. Note though: I do have opinions which I haven't posted here. It's part of my scum hunting, and I test them out. Often they don't work out, other times they might. Additionally, as I've also said before: When I vote to put pressure on someone during scum hunting, the pressure gets wrecked when the vote gets questioned.

I've answered all this before. Pay attention.

[DarkLightA]

@LL: I believe I've answered this exact question before: I have a tendency to be the D1 lynch because I just into situations, but now, in both of my games, I'm trying to be a bit more helpful.

Note though: I do have opinions which I haven't posted here.

It's part of my scum hunting, and I test them out. Often they don't work out, other times they might. Additionally, as I've also said before: When I vote to put pressure on someone during scum hunting, the pressure gets wrecked when the vote gets questioned.

I've answered all this before. Pay attention.

In that case, I'll have it noted.

[DarkLightA]

I find it more helpful to contribute over several days than getting lynched D1. Don't you?

Yes, I'm trying to find enough to build strong cases. Then they'll be shared, provided they're not worthless.

Oh, and the missing word is 'jump' XD

[DarkLightA]

At certain times it's deliberate. I like to see what happens and who reacts.

[DarkLightA]

XScorpion and StK/dana have been leg.

[DarkLightA]

Conclusions now. This says: I am trying to get reads. This does not say: What my reads are. Saying you are trying to scum hunt, then actually doing it is very different.

I don't think you understand. It's like with the votes. If I post them now, people will react to them as 'unclear' or 'unfulfilled'. Therefore, they will lose all there power, and rather the people pointed out might even be better off. So, it's for the good of the whole of the town that I choose to rather be lynched now than post them. Posting them will only help scum. Sure, if you're scum, feel free to continue pushing it though

----

Leg = legitimate

----

We won't get anywhere without a lynch. Deadline has possibly fallen next time I check this thread. Deer isn't my preferrable lynch, but I'm in favor of it. No lynches on day 1 are absolutely horrible. Doesn't seem like Deer's going to contribute much anyway.

Unvote.
Vote: Deer

[DarkLightA]

Conclusions now. This says: I am trying to get reads. This does not say: What my reads are. Saying you are trying to scum hunt, then actually doing it is very different.

I don't think you understand. It's like with the votes. If I post them now, people will react to them as 'unclear' or 'unfulfilled'. Therefore, they will lose all there power, and rather the people pointed out might even be better off. So, it's for the good of the whole of the town that I choose to rather be lynched now than post them. Posting them will only help scum. Sure, if you're scum, feel free to continue pushing it though

Locke Lamora and all the other people voting me because of this. WHAT DO YOU NOT GET?????????

[DarkLightA]

We need a lynch to get the game going. We are NOT ending this day without a lynch. That would only help scum.

Mod: can we have an extension?

[DarkLightA]

Sorry for the multi-posting:

About the Deer issue. -- I see this as a fake-claim. He sees that it's the only thing that can keep him alive is a PR claim. This way he's hoping that either both scum teams kill him and he can't die, or that both teams expect the other team to kill, and hence he won't die. Pretty smart.

@Doc (if it's not Deer): Don't counter-claim. We need you.

-----

Reality just struck me. 1/3 of the players here are scum. The entire wagon on me could be scum. Wow. That means that we all have to think really independently...

[DarkLightA]

(...) and he tries to lynch someone he doesn't find scummy at all, and in fact finds pro-town simply because it's near the deadline.

Two things. Both have been stated by me before. I'll make a nice little list for you:

1. An opinion can change. My scumdar was from long ago. Now, during re-reads, I find Deer more scummy. I've said this before.
   
2. As I've also said before, a no lynch in D1 is practically suicide for town.

5 minutes until deadline. We're screwed.

[DarkLightA]

Oh, awesome! Now let's lynch scum.

[DarkLightA]

*sigh*

No, that's the opposite of what I said.

[DarkLightA]

Oh, lol, didn't realize that. You're sharp.

Yeah, I was so into the whole thing of fire+water cancel that I forgot completely about that. Well, I guess the night will tell then...

[DarkLightA]

Lol @ dana's posts.

Probably took 2 mins to make that post, so that's what, 2 minutes to ISO me XD

[DarkLightA]

Unvote

You aren't voting anyone.

----

It seems like my favoured lynch is suffering a bandwagon, and, as I've stated a million times including in this sentence, the discussed player is my favoured lynch for today.

Vote: Dana

----

So I'm getting votes because...
I'm a fast reader...
Nice.

Yes.