Open 202 - Friends JK 9 (Game Over)

[Sleepless Assassin]

/confirm

[Sleepless Assassin]

About who I've played with before, no one here.

Vote Lowell

Is TDC your scumbuddy?

[Sleepless Assassin]

you know that makes you a easy mark as well don't you ?

What do you mean by this?

Is TDC your scumbuddy?

Excellent question. No. Yours?

No, sadly, I don't have a scumbuddy.

SA/Lowell: I have a brilliant idea, if we do that for all combinations we have this solved in no time!

That was the plan, but now you just told the scum that's what we are doing.

FoS TDC

[Sleepless Assassin]

Nessa, why are you looking at who the easy targets are?

Unvote, Vote nessarae56

Wdjat, do you have a scumbuddy?

[Sleepless Assassin]

Between don_johnson and semioldguy's posts, I am just so thrilled about playing with Lowell.* Given that dude's got a history of looking scummy, I don't think he's the right lynch today. But his meta definitely sounds like someone who can be scum and try to brush his scummy behavior off as Lowell being Lowell.


*Sarcasm, y'all.

So because he plays scummy, he can't be scum? That's just giving him a free pass to endgame because obviously scum won't kill him if he's scummy.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Unvote; Vote: Wdjat

Here would be a good place to start. Lowell and Sleepless Assassin make good points.

I don't think he's scum. I just disagree with the way he is looking at things.

Not that much has happened except for Nessarae, and I believe she was just a new player who felt overwhelmed, although it's awkward for me to judge my predecessor like htat.

Why is it awkward?

[Sleepless Assassin]

Why is it awkward?

Because by judging nessarae, I am, in effect, judging my own alignment.

If you're town, this shouldn't be a problem, or as you put it, "awkward".

[Sleepless Assassin]

Any thoughts on the read she had? I mean, there's nothing else to talk about in regards to nessarae56.

If you could lynch one person right now, who would it be and why?

I really don't understand her read. If I could lynch one person, it would be . . . Lowell, because of the following quoted post.

unvote

sorry wasn't paying attention, didn't realize that was L-1. Just felt like a good bandwagon.

Admittedly, this could easily be a simple mistake . . . but it's better than nothing.

Unvote, Vote: Lowell

This looks kind of like you are voting just because you were pressured to name a suspect.

That being said, if you are scum, Lowell is town.

unvote, vote: sleepless in seattle

Is this supposed to be me?

unvote, vote confid

Three reasons:
1) OMGUS
2) His passing mention of his predecessor's play is strange. It's like he wanted to cut off a potential liability (if there was one) before anyone could bring it up. His staged diplomacy in the process and in the post after is basically useless.
3) He's made an "anyone here?" post, but hasn't followed up with anything to get the game moving, other than a spiritless attack on someone (me), which he quickly caveats by saying it could be nothing. Kind of an... obvious thing to say. Like a cheap out to be used later on if needed.

2 seems to restate my point and I agree with 3.

Looking at the other folks in the game, I'm not too keen on the way Sleepless Assassin was leaning on ConfidAnon to speculate on nessarae56's alignment. Claiming this speculation wouldn't be awkward is pretty disingenuous. It wouldn't be hard to turn anything ConfidAnon said on the subject into a reason to vote for him. By this logic, Lowell's reason's for voting ConfidAnon aren't great either, but Lowell's been kinda all over the place.

Sleepless Assassin's focus on a single bad piece of logic is scummier to me.

vote: Sleepless Assassin

(Bolding mine) Actually, my initial suspicion came from Nessa, who Confid replaced. Confid just hasn't looked town enough for me to forget how scummy Nessa was and there's even some points against Confid himself.

@Sleepless Assassin
I have a good town feeling about ConfidAnon and the player he replaced. If you had to make a second choice right now, who would it be?

Probably TDC. I don't have more of a case than gut though. If we got a town flip from Confid, I'd say Lowell because he's scummy, but isn't Confid's scumbuddy. Maybe don too. Everyone else, I'm confident is town except maybe Dry-Fit who I have a town read on but that's kind of a weak read.

at the time SA voted, we were still in a seeming joke vote stage. there wasn't much going on. he switched his random vote to what i can only assume was a serious vote with poor(and piggybacked) reasoning.

When did I random vote?

Also, I disagree about my reasoning being weak. And I didn't piggyback anyone. I think for myself most of the time.

hence, at that time it was the "worst" case in my mind. it also seemed like joke vote # 2, which would be alright on page 1 or 2, but i believe he was attempting to leave the RVS which is what makes it a bad vote.

I never even made joke vote 1, so how could I make a second? And how can you call my vote on Nessa both a joke vote and a serious vote. It's one or the other. Either there is a reason for it (there was) or there isn't. You can't have both.

And what is wrong with leaving the RVS?

until he returns and participates i see no reason to move my vote at this time.

Hi.

[Sleepless Assassin]

That being said, if you are scum, Lowell is town.

^^ this is a horrendous false dichotomy. please explain.

Well, it looked like scum trying to find somewhere to put a vote. I was thinking that he'd only do it on town, but looking at how weak of a vote it is, it doesn't put much pressure on Lowell or make him more likely of a lynch, so I think I was a little quick to judge that.

unvote, vote confid

Three reasons:
1) OMGUS
2) His passing mention of his predecessor's play is strange. It's like he wanted to cut off a potential liability (if there was one) before anyone could bring it up. His staged diplomacy in the process and in the post after is basically useless.
3) He's made an "anyone here?" post, but hasn't followed up with anything to get the game moving, other than a spiritless attack on someone (me), which he quickly caveats by saying it could be nothing. Kind of an... obvious thing to say. Like a cheap out to be used later on if needed.

2 seems to restate my point and I agree with 3.

2 is null tell. it is in a townies best interest to separate themselves from their predecessors play if it is, in fact, questionable. nothing wrong with three. there is not much activity here, you say agree with a contradiction. "he hasn't followed up with anything". wrong. a spiritless attack is still something.

I disagree. No, I wouldn't go back and say "this is scummy" or "this isn't" about a player who I am replacing, but I don't think I'd feel "awkward" or nervous about it, which is what I see from Confid. I'd at least be willing to look and see why people see what they do. I've never replaced anyone in a game, so maybe I'm looking at it wrong, but that just looks scummy to me and I suspected the player he replaced anyway.

Actually, my initial suspicion came from Nessa, who Confid replaced. Confid just hasn't looked town enough for me to forget how scummy Nessa was and there's even some points against Confid himself.

a nice summary of the case would be helpful.

The way she came into the game didn't read as "who looks scummy and who doesn't?". It was more "who looks like an easy target". I know she didn't directly vote someone for being an easy target, but the fact that what she talked about was easy targets rubs me the wrong way. Then she left this game about as fast as a white boy's bike leaves the Bronx at night.

When did I random vote?

you voted lowell with no posted reasoning. never explained why you switched your vote off him and it occurred during the RVS. i consider that "random". not by the strict definition of the word, but i loathe semantics arguments. if it wasn't random/joke, then what was it?

His "unlynchable" comment was something I didn't like. I asked if TDC was his scumbuddy because of the joke-vote, quick change, and mention of an anti-town meta which actually protects him in a way because more things can be written off as "anti-town" or "oh, Lowell always does this".

Also, I disagree about my reasoning being weak. And I didn't piggyback anyone. I think for myself most of the time.

you capitalized on wdjat's pressure. hence, piggybacking. then you push suspicion at wdjat directly after lowell votes him in post 57/58.

Post 35, Nessa catches my attention. I see it as scummy, but wait for an explanation before acting.

Post 36, she responds scummily to my question.

Post 37, wdjat starts to question Nessa.

Post 39, I vote Nessa and ask Wdjat if he has scumbuddies.

Nessa is scummy in 46/47 and needs to die.

53 is where Wdjat really adds pressure. By this point, I've already started to question Nessa and voted her.

So did my case on Nessa benefit from Wdjat's pressure? Probably. Did I only vote Nessa because of it? No. Nessa was scummy, so I voted. Wdjat must have seen the same thing as I did, which is not uncommon.

And I didn't point suspicion at Wdjat in Post 58. I said that his way of thinking is wrong, also not uncommon for townies. I think Wdjat is town, so saying that I've pointed suspicion at him is either misinterpretation or a misrep. Lucky for you, I think you just misunderstood me.

I never even made joke vote 1, so how could I make a second? And how can you call my vote on Nessa both a joke vote and a serious vote. It's one or the other. Either there is a reason for it (there was) or there isn't. You can't have both.

i didn't call your nessa vote a joke vote. if it is a joke vote, please say so. if its not, then your reasoning is poor. again, how do you classify your first vote of the game? what caused you to unvote that player? please don't argue semantics of the words "joke" and "random".

My first vote was a serious vote, although I admit I didn't have much on Lowell. I unvoted because there was a stronger vote to be made.

Trust me, I'll be the LAST person to try arguing semantics with you.

And what is wrong with leaving the RVS?

nothing. is that what you were doing? if so, then you have to concede that your first vote was random/joke. so please, explain further.

No, I didn't jokevote. But I don't like the RVS, which is what I was saying.

ebwop: the semi quote is not semi. please attribute it to "sleepygaspasser".

Gotcha.

@Sleepless Assassin
What about SerRose gives you a such a confident town read on him?

He reads as a confused newbie trying to help the town, but unfortunately failing miserably.

Sleepless Assassin's line of questioning to ConfidAnon looks like he's just trying to turn nessarae56's confused posts into a scum read on ConfidAnon so he has an excuse to lynch him.

Oh, no, confusion isn't the case on Nessa at all. Read up in this post and maybe you'll see what I was looking at.

And if you want to call scummy actions excuses, then yes, I'll find excuses to lynch anyone who is scummy.

By trying to force ConfidAnon into making that read, he setting himself up to avoid responsibility if ConfidAnon turns up town.

He doesn't have to make the read, but just being able to look at her posts and give us an opinion of her play shouldn't be that hard.

I agree that flawed logic isn't a scumtell by itself, but this post where he responds to that flaw being pointed out with more pressure pushes my read from stupid to scummy.

I don't think my logic is flawed at all.

Given your suspicion of nessarae56, what did you hope to gain by having ConidAnon speculate on the scumminess of nessarae56's play?

Nothing. I didn't ask him to. Someone else did and his response caught my eye.

I could see where you're coming from if you could show how that vote is bad.
I mean if it's a good vote, then it could just be a good vote that would've come anyway.
I can totally see how Lowell would make that mistake, but I don't think it's that outrageous to vote him for it as you would imply.

It's not even about the quality of the vote. It's the fact that he was JUST pressured to actually add something useful to the game and, like magic, pulls a little baby rabbit out of a hat with a vote on Lowell. And who knows, maybe it'll grow up to be the Easter Bunny and Lowell will be scum, but it just looked like a way to make himself look better.

[Sleepless Assassin]

By the way, I'm kind of second guessing my town read on SerRose.

[Sleepless Assassin]

No matter how I go about answering that question, I feel as though you would still call me scummy . . . which, now, looking back at it, makes it seem like fake scumhunting.

Unvote, Vote: Sleepless Assassin

What answer to that question would have led you to say "that seems town?"

Nice OMGUS.

Anyway.

Basically anything along the lines of "yeah, she wasn't playing well, but I know she's town......etc" would have "seemed town".

your line of questioning wasn't "Why are you so worried about your alignment that you mention it first thing?" It was "Why don't you do that awkward thing that is clearly awkward and damning to you?"

I don't feel that it should be awkward for town.

So your goal in this post was not to get ConfidAnon to talk about it?

Nope.

I was pointing out what I saw as scummy.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Um, I posted 2 days ago.

[Sleepless Assassin]

What is the case on Dry-Fit? I'm not seeing it...

[Sleepless Assassin]

What I see is that he

A) asked for clarification on whether a vote was a serious vote or random vote.

So what?

B) Suspected SerRose over Wdjat.

If I were forced to choose, I'd go the same way.

C) Said directing power roles was bad.

I agree. Let the power roles do what they think is best.

None of those "points" are scummy. Just a summary of his play.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Bio, I've given reasons for the nessa/confid vote many times. Read my posts.

Also, in response to 209, you are seriously calling BANDWAGONING on PAGE TWO as a point against Dry-Fit when Semi calls your case crap (It is)?

Want a bandwagoning case? Got one right here. A couple of Dry-Fit votes and you jump right on.

Guys, can we PLEASE lynch Bio now?

[Sleepless Assassin]

Don_Johnson, is Regfan your scumbuddy?

Regfan, is Don_Johnson your scumbuddy?

[Sleepless Assassin]

Vote Regfan

.

Putting this down as a town tell (I tend to believe the lack of knowledge is genuine and I think that this topic would probably have come up in night discussion).

Even if it's genuine, how is lack of knowledge of a role a town tell? Why would scum talk about this at night?

Trying to figure out who Reg's scumbuddy isn't easy. It could very easily be any of Don/TDC/Lowell...

[Sleepless Assassin]

Sorry everyone. My computer got stupid on me and I couldn't get online. I'm short on time, but will get a post up ASAP. Hopefully tonight.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Sorry, couldn't get on last night. Let's see...

So Sleepless, you push on Bio. Bio flips a townie, then you turn around and start leading on another townie, you're on fire this game dude. I'm shocked to see not even a bit of reaction from you in regards to Bio's alignment.

Not sure what kind of reaction you're looking for. I'm not going to come out and say "OMG wow he was town". Yeah, I'm disappointed, but that's not what is important to me right now. I'm going to try and find scum elsewhere. We can use Bio's flip to find out who had a bad case on him, but that's about it. And yeah, if you feel like that's me, feel free to vote me.

I don't like your assertion that I'm "leading on another townie" with my vote on you. If you are town, show us. Don't just keep saying "oh, I'm town". The more you say it, the less believable it is.

Even if it's genuine, how is lack of knowledge of a role a town tell? Why would scum talk about this at night?

Well, I guess we agree that it's certainly not a scum tell.
The topic could easily spring up while discussing who should perform the night kill.

Yeah, it

could

come up, but I don't see how that's

likely

.

The only thing I have found you to say about the Regfan slot is:

By the way, I'm kind of second guessing my town read on SerRose.

and

Don_Johnson, is Regfan your scumbuddy?

Regfan, is Don_Johnson your scumbuddy?

Mind expanding a bit?

Yeah, Serose gave me newbtown vibes at first, but as the game went on, I started to change my mind.

@Sleepless Assassin: So you're pretty confident Regfan is scum?

He's still my top suspect.

vote: Regfan

Yes. He would be the best lynch today, by far.

ebwop: actually, i would be willing to lynch SA over dry-fit. keep forgetting he's here... with bio flipping town, i think regfan is less likely to be scum, no?

I see no reason for this at all unless you are Reg's scumbuddy.

Sleepless Assassin's play today isn't giving me warm fuzzy feelings. It reads to me like he's trying to do enough to look like he's participating, but not really committing to the stuff he's saying.

How am I not committing? I came right out and voted Reg and haven't once considered changing that vote today.

i think SA should be lynched, though.

Do you have a reason or am I gonna have to defend with "nuh-uh, u a bad guy".

dammit. i keep forgetting that SA is in this game. i don't like the fact that he's getting a pass here.

unvote, vote: sleeplessassasin.

What "free pass" am I getting?

I am a Vanilla Townie

Not unvoting.

No need to start a new wagon and expose a power role from someone else's claim when we have a perfectly good lynch on a claimed vanilla.

[Sleepless Assassin]

SA: you have basically been lurking and not contributing. that is what i am referencing in "the pass". i thought i already posted some suspicions of you, i will recheck. if not, i will go back and flesh them out. at this point i am not interested in pursuing another lynch candidate, however. so we'll see.

So basically because I don't have a lot of free time, I'm scum?

In the posts I've made, I think it's pretty clear who I suspect the most. That should be more than enough.

Also, Reg claimed vanilla and I saw somewhere that all vanilla claims should be lynched because the player was scummy enough to have to claim and we don't want to risk outting a power role with a new bandwagon.

Well duh. I'm asking you why you changed your mind. Why you are suspicious of Reg. Why he "would be the best lynch today, by far."

He's easily the scummiest player alive and claimed vanilla.

Man, I am not a fan of don_johnson and Sleepless Assassin right now. Both of them leaning on the Regfan lynch based purely on momentum is really scummy. I mean, I get how the votes got there in the first place but the reasoning their both using to encourage that fourth vote. Jeez...

How is it "purely on momentum"? Wasn't I like first to vote Reg today?

And yeah, I'd love to see a fourth vote. I like it when scum get lynched.

[Sleepless Assassin]

I'd love to see you elaborate on this, how have I been scummy? What have I done that makes you think I'm mafia?

You've been tunneling on Dry-Fit since you came into the game. You came into the day talking about the power roles. Asking Don who he'd have protected if he was the JK was just weird. Like you were trying to figure out if he was a power role or something. You tried to twist Bio's town flip to somehow make Dry look scummier. The constant "I'm town" statements are scummy. Oh, and you claimed vanilla so there is no point trying to go after another lynch today.

Generally, when a wagon stalls, yet no one posts to refute it, and then the game dies for a few days, I assume that wagon is a good one being derailed by scum hoping to inertia themselves out of a teammate's lynch. I'll assume that's what's happening here. Dry-fit is the right play.

Wouldn't this apply to Regfan more than to Dry? Reg got to L-1 and claimed. (I read farther and just now saw that Wdjat and Don already said this)

you and Sleepless Assassin are talking about the Regfan lynch like it's an inevitably since he's at L-1.

Not true because unfortunately, it's not inevitable.

Was going to wait until SA actually posts again, but whatever. Deadline is deadline.

Deadline isn't for about a week.

I'd rather like to avoid lynching Reg.

I bet you would.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Oh, another page. Oops.

those on a wagon should discuss more about why they don't to move(unless they do).

Reg is the only lynch that makes sense right now. Also, Dry-Fit is pretty obvtown.

[Sleepless Assassin]

I replaced into this game, and found him to be the scummiest by far, he has yet to provide any defense against this and has instead just voted me back.

Can you show me the case? I don't recall seeing a good point against Dry anywhere in this game for him to defend against?

Oh, and the "voted me back" thing, no. He was already voting you when you came into the game. Well, technically, he was voting Ser, but still.

My thoughts on how the mafia shot was that both mafia have to shoot thus one mafia getting jailed meant nothing, however clearly I was wrong about that as Don explained. Because I thought one mafia getting jailed meant nothing, I believed the best use of jailer would be to jail the person most likely to be shot which was Semi as no one suspected him yesterday.

Again, this isn't even relevant.

You say there's no point in changing the lynch. This is however very wrong, as changing could and probably would result in the lynching of a mafia thus being very beneficial.

"I'm town"...

Okay. I'm dead. I'd appreciate if Dry was lynched tomorrow.

For the record I think the second mafia is Wdjat.

Oh, bullshit. You knew you weren't dead. Don't unvote is RIGHT at the TOP of the PAGE.

lynch this scum.

Interesting.

I may be falling for the saddest scum-trick ever, but

unvote

You are...

Yeah.. and this game is soo active and it totally isn't the Easter weekend ahead of us (which at least where I live means Friday and Monday are holidays).
Surely I should have waited until there's only one day left as that's plenty time to test a wagon on you and get a different lynch in if it fails...

Obvious solution is to lynch Regscum.

[Sleepless Assassin]

By the way, TDC is the other scum.

[Sleepless Assassin]

I still think Reg and Don are scum.

Don's "hope you're not a pr" line is just bad when we knew Reg wasn't a PR already (even though you couldn't have changed who was lynched). The Reg vote then switch to Dry seemed pretty calculated though.

I still say Reg is the best lynch.

[Sleepless Assassin]

By the way, TDC is the other scum.

I still think Reg and Don are scum.

Yeah, I'm going back and forth between you and Don. Right now, I think it's Don. Reg is scum though.

Should we like hypo-JK or something before we go to night?

[Sleepless Assassin]

I'm not a jailkeeper.

Tracker shouldn't claim.

Regfan should be lynched followed by TDC (assuming no counters).

[Sleepless Assassin]

Cuz you are town unless you are fakeclaiming in which case we'll find out soon enough.

[Sleepless Assassin]

repeat question. why TDC? what about him are you suspicious of?

Process of elimination. Lowell is obvtown. Wdjat looked town when he was around. I'll treat you as town unless we see a counterclaim. That leaves TDC.

Vote Regfan

[Sleepless Assassin]

Judging by that post, Reg was probably town. If I'm right, I won't ever be playing a game with him again. I feel like don was scum and am curious why the real JK never countered if I was right. TDC was probably scum. If don is town, Wdjat was probably the other.

Reg, my advice to you is to NEVER self-hammer EVER again, especially as town in LYLO.

[Sleepless Assassin]

lol that wasn't LYLO.

Still, self-hammer is bad form.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Oh my God, not hammer either.

Unvote

[Sleepless Assassin]

Vote no lynch

We need the whole town to agree on a lynch or scum to vote with us. Not likely in this town.

I'd guess TDC and Wdjat right now if no one counters don.

[Sleepless Assassin]

we should get a tracker claim.

Scum would love this. Guess who wouldn't get a result tonight.

[Sleepless Assassin]

If we mislynch, scum have a chance to win if they kill successfully.

If we no lynch, we WILL see tomorrow and the power roles have a chance to hit scum.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Whatever.

Vote Regfan

[Sleepless Assassin]

Funny how TDC is stalling on lynching Reg.

Don should obviously be trying to jail scum. We want a tracker result.

[Sleepless Assassin]

TDC dies tomorrow. He might kill me tonight because he hasn't been able to get me lynched yet.

Maybe Don should jail me or TDC.

[Sleepless Assassin]

if TDC was mafia he could have won by now (From my point of view of course).

Yes, this means chn/TDC can't be scum together.

From my point of view, possible scum teams left are Reg/TDC and Reg/chn. Chn voting Reg makes me think I've been right ever since Don claimed and it's Reg/TDC. I'm about 80% sure on this, good odds in a mafia game.

That leaves SA and Reg most scummy people alive.

Would Reg and I bus each other in LYLO? And if I were his buddy, would I be trying to get him lynched ALL game? It's Reg and TDC. From your point of view, the only possibilities are Reg/TDC and Reg/me. Reg is the common name for both of us, so we should both me voting him. He is confirmed scum to both of us unless:
A)We are scum (I'm not, how bout you?)
B)Don or Lowell is scum and a dumb power role hasn't countered
C)TDC is scum and didn't realize he could have won by hammering Reg
C2)TDC is scum and was worried enough about Don's action tonight that he didn't hammer.

Oh, I see you are already voting Reg lol.

reg: who should i jail tonight? r u positive that TDC is town? could he be scum holding off to avoid exposing himself?

If we lynch Reg and he's town, we can still win if scum don't kill or you stop the kill. If Reg is town, TDC is confirmed town. That leaves me and chn as the only scum, hence why I now KNOW that Reg is scum except in the case of my earlier outlined scenarios. But for sake of completeness, if he were to flip town, you guess which of me/chn is making the kill and jail one of us or try to guess our target and jail them.