Open 202 - Friends JK 9 (Game Over)

[Regfan]

Hey everyone! I'm going to need a few hours to re-read the thread and post my thoughts can I ask that no one hammers or tries to rush end the day during that time.

[Regfan]

Okay, I've done an entire massive re-read and I've put all my thoughts about the game under player headings so it might be hard to understand but I'll try my best.

semioldguy

Quick changing of votes of the beggining possibly in hope to cause a bandwagon on Serrose, he then starts asking questions about whether others have played with each other or not. This in itself is a town tell as gaining a good meta on your opponents is a VERY strong tool, its shown in this quote.

"TDC, have you played with Lowell before"

In relation to Ness he comments saying:

"I'm thinking slightly more likely town as an "oops, I messed up and don't want to deal with my screw up" sort mindframe. Though it wouldn't be unreasonable as scum, I think if that were the case she would have stayed at least a little bit longer to attempt defending herself.

We should look elsewhere for scum for now."

This is a very good point, if she was mafia I think she would have got much more defensive and played the newbie card to an even bigger degree.

He mentions that SerRose was acting anti-town because he wasn't hepling and his posts were scummy but at the same time doesn't mention Lowell who has been doing a very similar thing.

He moves on to actively scumhunt and ask questions at the same time not tunneling on anyone like many other players are.

Overall read on semioldguy - Strong read as a Townie.

don_johnson

Calls Semi obv scum straight away there's a possibility that this was a small early buss. He then brings in the option and consequences of a policy lynch, I find this to be very townie, as although he explains how it can be good, he also brings up an excellent point which is it rarely ever works here. This is all shown in this post;

"my knowledge of lowell is that he lurks. fatally so. i've read him lynched as doctor. i have yet to read a game of his where he participates a good deal and responds to pressure. he's a good candidate for policy lynch, however, i have yet to see a policy lynch on this site hit scum. so... "

He then progresses to further scumhunt although he has yet to make a strong case against anyone, I'd like to see more of his thoughts on every player in the game.

He ends up voting just to get a hopeful lynch done before deadline, where he votes in this post:

-"vote: confid

L-1. nobody hammer. let's get a claim. he doesn't look good on reread. two days to deadline. discuss... "

This is a townie move, to ensure no one hammers and to put a pressure vote so close to the deadline, however a claim straight away isn't the best way to do it, watch for his reactions and get him to naturally claim instead of insisting him to.

Overall read on don_johnson - Medium read as a Townie.

Lowell

He Comments that he's unlynchable possibly a soft-pr claim early in the game for no real reason, this is shown in this post:

"@semi- while I appreciate your desire to protect me, you forget I'm pretty much unlynchable. "

He then Bandwagons on Serrose without and reason and doesn't add any content or thoughts on the game. He then defends it by trying to say it was due to a lack of attention and still doesn't add his thoughts on the game.

"unvote

sorry wasn't paying attention, didn't realize that was L-1. Just felt like a good bandwagon."

I've noticed he mainly comments on the 'funny' or sarcastic comments in the game, and none of the in depth play. He tries to use Serrose's inactivity as an excuse to put him back at L-1 and hopefully get a quick hammer.

"Who knows. People are touchy. Serrose doesn't seem to be in any hurry to rush to his own defense, though, so whatever. I'll probably put that vote back. "

The one attack and FoS he has made in the day was quite interesting, it was on Confid with some valid points, showing some small signs of scumhunting, would love to see his thoughts on other players though. The attack on Confid could be an attempt to push the lynch however I think it is a genuine sign of scumhunting.

Overall read on Lowell - Small read as a Mafia.

I need a break, the rest will be up within an hour from now.

[Regfan]

Wdjat

He starts of the game by expanding on Semi's talk about past experiences.

"Could everyone talk about previous experience with other players? I don't know any of you."

He progresses to start interrogating Ness and trying to get some information out of him, he did this through questioning on his thoughts and reasoning, this is shown particularly in this quote:

"You can tell us why you decided your reasoning was bad while you're at it. "

Wdjat's vote and his FoS seems to be jumping around however he explains his reasons behind his votes quite solidly. He shows signs of activeness and potential scum hunting, but I don't have a strong read on him at all.

Overall read on Wdjat - Null Read, if anything Small Read as a Townie.

Dry-fit

I've noticed he doesn't actually add much content to the game, he just questions people here and there, and that's about it. I believe he tried to push suspicion back onto Serrose unnecessarily and attacked Don for wanting to 'redirecting' power roles, when he just merely suggested it was better to check then lynch Serrose which is indeed correct.

From paste experiences (This game I was in, especially by LordChrono's play):

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13355

The mafia tend to be semi-active and ask a lot of questions to appear 'townie' but don't actually analysis or take a stance on anything until forced to or called out.

Overall read on Dry-fit - Medium read as a Mafia.

TDC

He brings up a meta about Lowell and Dry but uses the excuse of being too lazy to go into it.

"Dry-fit rings a bell, but without the search function I'm too lazy to search for whether that was as player or mod. Maybe he knows. "

He moves on to starts asking Semi for links with Lowell and seems to be actively hunting.

"semioldguy: I'm still curious about your experience with Lowell. Any links where he was the early wagon? "

He then tries to get conversation going about the thoughts on the SerRose wagon, this is a very townie post as a bandwagon that starts on someone should be due to reasons from each of the voters and an opinion on the person they are voting.

"Could everyone on the SerRose wagon (and Lowell) tell me where they see him on a 1-10 scale from "anti-town" to "scummy"? "

I see him trying to help the town, but my gut isn't exactly screaming townie from him, I'd like to see him start listing his FoS's and reasons behind them.

Overall read on TDC- Medium read as a Townie.

[Regfan]

ConfidAnon/nessarae56

This player seems to be the contreversial player of this game so far, and everyone seems to be bw'ing on him. His first comment of the game really and its illogical and doesn't make sense.

"i mean since he said that it would make one palyer an easy target.. since they played together. he himself will be an easy target as well there for he has made himself better know to me. "

On page two he tried to defend it using hte newbie excuse saying:

"noted that i'm just watching this player as he make's it easy to seem that he make's himself a terget. and no i have no scumbuddy i'm a newbie"

Again the very next post he continues to use this newbie excuse saying:

"ahh right well you know thing's are hard for me since. i'm new here. cut me some slack."

He pretty much admitted what he said was scummy and was asking for a new leaf to be turned over, but you don't do this in mafia and is a very scummy move.

Confid replaces him and starts to analyze and help in the game, his posts don't seem particularly scummy at all to me, I just think he replaced a newbie player who is naturally scummy. This comment from him really makes sense to me and it's true, people tend to tunnel, I don't think ANYTHING he could have said would have changed your view on him because of his prior player.

"No matter how I go about answering that question, I feel as though you would still call me scummy . . . which, now, looking back at it, makes it seem like fake scumhunting.

Unvote, Vote: Sleepless Assassin

What answer to that question would have led you to say "that seems town?" "

Although this was a bit of an OMGUS I can see where he is coming from and his posts haven't really struck me as mafia, but at the same time I don't have a strong town read of him.

Overall read on ConfidAnon - Null Read, if anything Small Read as a Mafia.

Sleepless Assassin

He is someone I really can't get a read on, he seems to be looking at things from an analytical angle which is really good and can lead to a lot of discussion but I haven't got any gut feeling on him whatsoever yet.

It's things like this:

"Is TDC your scumbuddy?"

That make me uncertain whether he is townie or mafia because I don't see why a mafia would bother to ask that question and I don't see what a townie has to gain from asking that question.

Overall read on Sleepless Assassin - Null Read.

Sorry for the massive chunks of posts I'm not very good at summarizing my thoughts, overall I don't see ConfidAnon is the correct lynch for today, however I would like him to come and defend himself right now

Vote: Dry-fit

[Regfan]

first inconsistency i see in your posts, though, is the idea that my early semi vote could be a buss. this is just after you give semi a strong townie read. just seemed nonsequitur to me.

What I'm trying to say from it is you saying he was 'obv scum' there, seems out of place. I never said that it was a buss, or that I think it is, I said there's a possibility of it being so.

Also on another note, has anyone thought about tactics to do with our power roles. Here's what I've thought of and no one should claim until we have all discussed it please.

A) Tracker claims today, Jailer jails tracker and tells him his real identity in jail, we have two clears for tomorrow and since mafia can't kill tracker (He's protected by the jailer) then mafia only have a 1/6 chance to nail a pr. If they don't nail the jailer the tracker can 'direct' the lynch tomorrow.

B) Tracker claims today, Jailer 'wifom' jails the tracker (They don't tell us what they are planning on doing) and mafia might shoot at the tracker, where there is a chance he is jailed meaning no kill saving us a day.

C) No one claims at all.

[Regfan]

The cases don't interest you but you do nothing to prevent the lynch of something you don't believe in??

Also, I've replaced Serrose and if she was your biggest FoS, then analyze me then, or ask me questions. Don't just shrug and say 'its my playstyle', that seems like a fairly poor excuse to me.

[Regfan]

Dry-fit's response is town.

The points brought up against him are crap.

Personally, I find this to be a load of shit, Dry has yet to post anything I have found particullary pro-town, he has been actively lurking and hasn't actually put ANY points forward I plan to do an iso on him in a second and you will see that. Is defence to the thought of votes on him seems as if he's trying to push them away without addressing them.

[Regfan]

Post 25 - He confirms and RVS"s Wdjat as well as pointing out who he has played with is an attempted humorous manner.

Post 42 - He agrees with Sleepless with just a simple +1 and changes his vote to ness.

Post 59 - Says we should 'examine Lowell's play to decide whether he should be lynched' and asks Semi his thoughts on Ness.
Post 78 - Asks Confid his thoughts on the game and asks Semi if a vote is serious
Post 80 - Changes vote to Serrose with the commet 'Sounds like fun'
Post 91 - Asks Ser a useless question and also asks him if he plays to post more
Post 108 - Says only thing scummy about Serrose is his Omgus, this seems like an attempt to push the day onto Serrose and asks semi AGAIN his thoughts on serrose
Post 120 - Says serrose isn't a complete noob, which was wrong. Trys to shift focus to DJ for 'directing power roles' when that wasn't what he was doing exacty.
Post 130 - Defends his accusation on SerRose being a complete noob. Questions the idea of a null tell
Post 145 - Asks Semi to elaborate on a future Dj lynch. Mentions this 'Just because you aren't able to read him, why does that make you think the rest of us can't?' however responds with no read on him.
Post 159 - Continues on about the null tell thought and still doesn't offer a read on anyone.
Post 169 - Suggests changing his vote to Dj but doesn't.
Post 187 - Questions Semi again on Dj's recent posts, mentions there isn't much to add.
Post 198 - Defends the FoS against him by saying 'I haven't done a lot of analysis this game because my top suspect is SerRose and he never really posted enough to do much analysis. The cases on CA and SA don't really interest me.' Since his biggest suspect was replaced he still has yet to do an anaylsis on me even though he said that was what he was waiting for.
Post 203 - Poorly defends himself and says he didn't need to defend any of the others because there was no risk of a lynch however there really was.

Overall, no sign of actively scumhunting, instead active lurking. He seems to be constantly questioning Semi in an atttempt to buddy up with him. Buddying on day 1 is a strong scum tell, because if you can trick one townie into believing you are town, you can keep them alive the whole game and win by their mistake.

[Regfan]

First I will ask if you agree with the points Bio Hazard is using for his vote. If so, you can answer the questions for him that I posed against his points. If you don't like his points, now is the time to speak up.

To be frank, I'm unsure about what his points are actually, I see him mentioning scum tells that Dry has done, but no case or argument together.

However, some people just play that way. Even as town. I know I've made the mistake before in my suspicions. When a player is asking a lot of questions, a majority of the answers he gets are not going to be scummy. That's just how it is. And wasting further time and effort on answers that aren't scummy is not helpful for the town; it's distracting. I think it's a town-tell to be asking lots of questions but not doing anything with them. Scum would make a move sooner rather than later or ask questions with spring traps in them.

This is where I disagree with you, sure some people play that way, but asking lots and lots of questions and only questions is done in order not to seem 'lurky' and to seem as if you're actively participating, none of Dry's questions really helped us gain or gather and significant information and thus I believe he's just planning on asking the questions to seem 'townie' instead of actually helping.

To me this is an obvious town reasoning. I have used this reasoning many times myself as town and it fits his ask questions but not follow up playstyle. I similarly feel that neither of those players were in danger of being lynched at the time.

Again, you fail to spot the difference between yourself and him, you've' always mentioned your comments on the players being voted and bandwagoned whereas Dry never mentioned his and only when really attacked did he say he didn't suspect both. If he never truly suspected both people being voted, why did he never bring anything up earlier?

I'm not too happy with the was semioldguy is jumping to Dry-fit's defense either. Either he's falling prey to some buddying or he's doing some buddying of his own. I suspect it's the former.

In my re-read, I seem to notice, everyone only directs there questions about the game to semi, especially Dry, I'm quite positive buddying is going on here.

So now I can't derail wagons that I am on? I most certainly can!

Unvote; Vote Regfan

This is a much better vote everyone! Let's get it moved over!!

Choo! Choo!!!

We are far beyond the RVS segment of the game, and placing your vote on me with no reasons whatsoever is clearly you attempting to reaction test me. I'd much rather you explain to me why you have this 'townie' read on Dry, because its shocking me.

@TDC, Whats your thoughts on Dry-Fit?

Given that his predecessors were horrible, I'm fine stringing him up. Where are we, vote-wise?

And your thoughts on any of the other players? You mentioned his tunneling and in your post you've done the exact same thing.

I'd actually much rather lynch Regfan, or even wdjat if Regfan isn't attainable, over Bio Hazard. I still have a strong feeling of nessearae as newb-town. If the support is there for a switch I am for it.

(guess the two of us are linked now, eh Bio Hazard?)

Unvote; Vote: Regfan

What do ya know, you've done it again. Only this time, you've made a comment about how you would either like to lynch me or Wdjat, and didn't state for any reason why.

[Regfan]

The second one was all for you though. I have done exactly (almost to the "t") what you are doing right now when I replaced in as scum before in Newbie 774. I picked on the guy asking questions for the same reasons you are.

However, some people just play that way. Even as town. I know I've made the mistake before in my suspicions. When a player is asking a lot of questions, a majority of the answers he gets are not going to be scummy. That's just how it is.

The second quote shows that you understand that everyone plays differently and that is how some people play, so to vote me because I'm playing like you would as mafia is just getting stupid.

I believe I've provided a link to a game I've already played, go read it. I FoS the people just sitting around on the sidelines questioning the game.

[Regfan]

Meta isn't so great for scum hunting. Even less so when a player suggests it for himself. It implies that a person is aware of his or her own meta, which is then usually most useful for digging up null tells on that person. [/quote[

I'd have to disagree with this to a degree, I find knowing another players meta, makes it a lot easier to read them and essentially scum hunt. If I had more games to link to you I would, however that is the only finished game I have played here.

Are you really that worried about my one vote when practically no one has even been suspicious of you player slot all game aside from myself and Dry-fit?

Again, you seem to misunderstood, my worry is not about your vote at all, I'm trying to get you to tell me why you think Dry is town, to help me understand where you are coming from, and you've constantly ignored that and instead starting pushing towards me.

[Regfan]

I'm in the middle of a lecture so I don't exactly have time to do much, but is the vote count L-1 on Bio? If so we need a claim and a last defence in the next hour.

I'll check back in a few hours if I have time because we need to make sure we get a lynch in. A no lynch is the worst thing we could possibily have in this position.

[Regfan]

Why hadn't the jailer jailed Semi, it was quite clear he needed the protection...

Anyway moving on. I still believe Dry-Fit is mafia and haven't seen anything to disprove my suspicions, if anything the fact he didn't vote with the Bio lynch and instead voted against me without any reasoning increases my suspicions.

Vote: Dry-Fit

Also, the tracker should claim if they got a guilty report last night. We can use the jail keeper to protect them the remaining nights leaving us having a clear alive throughout the game, and also a mafia down.

[Regfan]

how was it "quite" clear?

Yesterday it seemed like everyone looked to him for help and an opinion, he was pretty much trying to lead our play and considered to be a townie from most players.

no. tracker should not "claim" yet. tracker doesn't get innocent, guilty results. they see if someone moved at night. jailer doesn't only "protect" either. they also roleblock. you seem eager to out town's power roles. you made a similar suggestion yesterday.

Yes, I'm used to EpicMafia.com where power-roles come out fairly early, share their information and help us catch the mafia. Tracker would know they have a guilty, not sure what you're on about because wouldn't the mafia visit Semi the dead who clearly the jailer did not visit otherwise Semi wouldn't be dead.

dry-fit hasn't posted today, so what exactly would have "disproved" your suspicions by now?

The night death, the lead up to the hammer and what alignment Bio flipped.

[Regfan]

@Don, why, who would you have considered as the 'obvious protect' or more likely to die at night?

[Regfan]

um, okay. that makes sense, but unless tracker has that result they should definitely not claim.

Which if you note is what I said.

regfan wrote:


The night death, the lead up to the hammer and what alignment Bio flipped.


not following you here.

The fact that Bio flipped a townie and how Dry tried to make a point of stating the he didn't think Bio was mafia yesterday yet did nothing to prevent his lynch makes me think he knew Bio was going to flip townie. And wanted to look good for today, but not do anything too drastic to stop the lynch on him.

reg: i often follow the "one scum on, one scum off the vanilla townie day1 wagon" theory. do you think it applies here?

Well, I've never heard of this theory so I'd love for you to expand on it a bit please, but if it just one mafia doesn't vote the lynch to avoid suspicion while the other pushes it then I don't believe in it. I think mafia would vote differently and have different tactics in every game especially to avoid this 'theory' biting them in the ass.

[Regfan]

For you TDC:

Regfan wrote:
The cases don't interest you but you do nothing to prevent the lynch of something you don't believe in??

I never felt he was in such danger of a lynch to need a defense.

On - Post subject: 203

:Shrug: Asking lots of questions is my playstyle. I haven't done a lot of analysis this game because my top suspect is SerRose and he never really posted enough to do much analysis. The cases on CA and SA don't really interest me.

On - Post - 198

don_johnson wrote:
i imagine the jailer was looking to jail scum.

Agreed.

I really don't see how you can think this for a second, jailing a mafia with 2 mafia alive has no impact whatsoever, if there was only 1 mafia alive then yes, jailing scum would be beneficial. However will 2 mafia alive the jailer should only be aiming to prevent the kill from going through.

he talk about powerroles isn't that useful. Generally speaking, they'll probably be more useful as cleared innocents than they'll actually be useful power-wise.

Again I disagree, if we lynch a mafia and the jailer jails someone and a kill goes through the person jailed would be clear thus very useful. And tracker tracking a mafia gives us a 100% scum, so again very useful.

[Regfan]

Regfan:
Both these comments were before BH entered the game. Also saying that he didn't think CA was in danger of being lynched and that he wasn't interested in the case on him is not quite the same thing as thinking he's town. Why do you not think that his most recent comment which clearly implies consent with the lynch overrides these indifferent comments on BH's predecessors?

Saying that he didn't find the case appealing is him saying he doesn't agree with the lynch, yet if you watch he made no real case or attempt to actually scum hunt and consider putting up a strong case against anyone else to get the lynch changed. His recent comments in regards to BH's are overridden because they essentially were OMGUS comments, the second BH attempted to make a case against Dry, Dry said he changed his mind, but also didn't change his vote.

The difference is that if you succeed you probably have scum, whereas if you succeed protecting someone you only have town. (Both of course, requiring you're reasonably sure about that person to begin with). I'm not claiming that trying to block the kill rather than to protect the victim is a far superior strategy (although I think it is slightly), just that your dismissal of it is unfounded.

Actually I have a question here, to either the mod or anyone who wants to answer it. Do both mafia visit (Make the kill) as in if one mafia was jailed the one who sent in the kill order, would a no lynch occur or would the 'partner' make the kill while they were jailed. Because I'm used to both mafia visiting thus jailing one mafia while there's another alive is effectively useless.

Regfan, is Don_Johnson your scumbuddy?

No, I can assure you I am not mafia, thus it's impossible for anyone to be my scumbuddy.

Man, I am not liking the way Regfan starts out this day. The way he leans on his town read of semioldguy looks sketchy and the way he's tunneling on Dry-fit looks even worse. The whole outing power roles could be dismissed as being eager, but this wording really bugs me:

So you're saying that myself getting a town read on semi the guy who was helping us the most and when seeing him die being shocked that the jailer didn't jail him is scummy? I'd like you to elaborate on how you can even believe this.

Yes, I do have a sense of tunnel vision on against Dry, but that is because I'm quite confident in him being mafia.

If you take a look at all my points about the power-roles, they are all very valid. The best way to proceed today would be if our tracker does have a guilty, and how does suggesting they come out if they have one be suspicious. It's the best course of action, I'm not here saying 'TRACKER CLAIM, TRACKER WHERE ARE YOU'. I'm simply stating under what circumstances I believe it is in our best interest for the tracker to claim. If you wish to refute these circumstances, I would love to hear it otherwise I'd like you to explain yourself in regards to how my past-experience at epic mafia has anything to do with 'not helping the town'.

[Regfan]

I have to completed games being Newbie 907 and Mini 916. And one currently going game, and no I have yet to be mafia.

[Regfan]

Why so few games in nine months?

I signed up roughly 9 months ago to join a Big Brother game on this site for a friend of mine. I signed up for a mini-mafia game then as well and ended up dropping out before day 1 really got underway. Only recently (A month ago) did I come back and give this a proper try.

So Sleepless, you push on Bio. Bio flips a townie, then you turn around and start leading on another townie, you're on fire this game dude. I'm shocked to see not even a bit of reaction from you in regards to Bio's alignment.

[Regfan]

It's sketchy for the same reasons why Dry-fit having his town read on Bio Hazard is sketchy. You're trying to get town cred by showing off how right you were about your town read on a dead player. And speaking of Dry-fit's town read on Bio Hazard, I don't see that given his last post before the lynch where he calls Bio Hazard one of his top suspects.

Except, Dry did nothing at all to attempt to change the lynch even when he disagreed with it, later when Bio started to suspect Dry, then Dry changed his read on him saying he would be fine with a Bio lynch. But still didn't change his vote onto him because it would make him look bad being on a townie lynch the next day.

This isn't about whether or not the things you said are right. Yes, guilty results should be claimed. You're saying obvious things about power roles and trying to get them to claim. The post I quoted really jumps out at me because you connect early claims to finding mafia, implying that not claiming is anti-town. Do you see what I'm saying here? Does anyone?

These things are not 'Obvious' to me, this is the first time I've really been alive in a proper setup on this site, and I'm going to suggest whatever I feel is right in relation to the power-roles whether it be obvious or not.

I've got a town read on Dry-Fit based mostly on Regfan's attack. His posts are a pretty null read to me.

Feel free to expand on this, I'd love to hear it.

having a "gut" town read on a lurker doesn't make sense to me.

This is untrue, I've had gut reads on lurkers in the past, lurking =/= Mafia and if the posts the lurker makes are logical and pro-town you can get a town read of them.

1) regfan's 273 is very scummy. The indignation about not protecting semi looks contrived as hell. No, there's obviously no way the jailer would know who to protect out of 11 people. The idea that we can be upset at the jailer for missing is idiotic. It's especially odd considering the one thing noticeable about semi's play was that he was the player most suspicious of regfan. I think reg just wants something to talk about to try to look active. fos regfan

The way I'm used to playing mafia both mafia visit to make the kill, so jailing to jail scum would be useless, that means I'm used to the jailer jailing whoever they think will die in this sort of situation. I would say Semi was the most clear town yesterday, and that's why I was shocked to see him get shot and not be protected. However since only 1 mafia makes the kill it seems then this makes a bit more sense.

I myself would consider voting Wdjat later within the game however today I have seen no reason not to vote Dry, his defense is poor and close to non-existent with him just deciding to Omgus.

[Regfan]

Well considering I am already at L-1 I may as well claim before I get randomly hammered on. I am a Vanilla Townie, and I would fake claim a power-role in this position if I was mafia to draw out a counter-claim or to make people unvote me.

Clearly I can't change anything I've already said, nor do I wish to. I still stand by the fact that I believe Dry is mafia, and if I get hammered I'd hope that you all take a good look at him tomorrow and hopefully lynch him. I'm going to leave my final thoughts on everyone in the game briefly.

Dry-fit - Mafia
TDC - Townie
don_johnson - Townie
Sleepless Assassin - Unsure leaning townie
Wdjat - Unsure leaning mafia
Lowell - Unsure overall.

[Regfan]

If there is anything else you wish from me please feel free to ask. For now I don't believe there is too much I can do I've already attempted to show you why I'm not mafia, and I've created a case against my biggest Suspect which no one seems to be interested in at all.

[Regfan]

he's at L-1. i didn't hammer. i have tried convincing people to vote wdjat. you are bordering on an either/or fallacy here. the statement seems off to me, and the case on reg exists. reg's flip helps town either way.

Putting me at L-1 forces me to claim, forcing anyone to claim when you don't really suspect them is not a good move. And I've LOVE to hear this 'Case' you believe you think you have.

i think lowell, SA, and wdjat are all fine candidates for scum if reg flips town. i am thinking dry if reg flips scum.

Have I not made myself clear? When I flip I expect a lot of the day to revolve around the interrogation and lynch of Dry-Fit.

Do you really think I would 'Buss' Dry in this position with tracker and jailer alive? I'd love to hear any explanation you have on any of these because your recent post is one of the stupidest things I've ever seen.

[Regfan]

i didn't make a case on you. i never stated that i did. if you recall you are not my top choice. the case on you was made by others

The fact your voting me means you agree with this so called case to an extent otherwise you wouldn't be voting me so I say again, what is this 'Case'.

your defense is wifom. if you claim a pr and are actually scum, then someone here will know 100% that you are scum. by claiming vanilla you have a better chance at survival without outing yourself. this is an open set-up.

In response to Wifom I'm going to quote something I said in a finished game that I've already linked which is this:

you could call anything that's happened WIFOM really. That's why when you see everything, you consider both possibilities and make a decision, that's what I did and you seem to refute it only by posting the word WIFOM.

. please refrain from referring to my thoughts as "stupid". its unecessary

Go read your post again, it is indeed stupid you said this:

i think lowell, SA, and wdjat are all fine candidates for scum if reg flips town.

Meaning when I flip town, you're not even going to consider my biggest suspect, the person I'm sure on.

Reg: Can you explain your town read on dj? As you seem fairly certain dry is scum, why are you discounting dj as his partner? I agree with Lowell, if any of those two would flip scum, I'd look at the other one first thing in the morning.

The fact that he has been actively attempting to scum-hunt as well as I don't see him 'buddying' with his scum-partner at this point in the game. He's added a lot of points of discussion and allowed us to really try and get this game moving so I don't think he's mafia for those reasons.

seeing as how reg already claimed and claimed vanilla, i think the smart play is to see this through. i would like a bit more input from our lurkers before a hammer, but if we start flailing we may end up playing into scums hands. especially if all the active players are town.

So, you don't really suspect me, you don't think I'm mafia, but you want me lynched, again wtf? How about re-read Dry throughout the game and do an iso on him and vote an actual mafia.

he's at L-1. i didn't hammer. i have tried convincing people to vote wdjat. you are bordering on an either/or fallacy here. the statement seems off to me, and the case on reg exists. reg's flip helps town either way.

YOU YOU YOU, put me at L-1. YOU, forced me to claim. Now YOU are saying that since I've claimed you might as well lynch me. Do you not see how you are the one pushing this lynch now?

And do you honestly think I would buss with a tracker and jailer alive and town still having a msylnch, because that's pure stupidity.

regardless of reg's flip, i think town will be in a good position for tomorrow. hence, i'd rather not start flailing and risk weakening our position.

I don't think you will be I think somehow Dry is going to slip out of getting lynched and mafia will win.

[Regfan]

i am considering both possibilities. not sure what you are getting at here.

No, you just said poor wifom defense. Meaning you didn't consider it in the depth you should.

^^ this AtE does not help your case.

there are other players in this thread and we need more input from them. i'm not going to wagon hop around putting everyone at L-1.

That's what you did to me.

And I'm still waiting and I'll repeat again since you seem to be dodging my question, what is this 'Case'?

[Regfan]

Just using the term 'Scummy' to describe a case is normally used by mafia or newbie townie. You don't fit under the criteria of the second one, and I very much doubt your the first one. So I expect a lot better from you, what was scummy that I've said, why do you think I'm mafia?

And I haven't just been saying 'I'm town, don't lynch me'. I've clearly stated why you should be lynching DryFit, if you haven't noticed for some reason I will go over it again.

Yesterday he tried to stay out of picture throughout most of the day and when confronted he tried to step to the side and make the confrontation disappear by not responding to it. His 'scum hunting' has been him asking a series of fairly useless questions in my opinion and not making or creating any analysis from it. Then when I attack and lead on him today he just decides to vote me instead of creating a case or anything of the sort against me, and says its based on 'SerRose' yet he won't go into it in any greater depth. He is actively lurking in the game, he's been given various opportunities to defend himself or actually make an in-depth scum hunting evaluation or post and has dismissed the opportunity.

[Regfan]

all you are doing is saying "i am town".

This quote really aggravates me as it is as if you are trying to say that I haven't attempted to help. If you care to read back, I've done a player-by-player evaluation, an updated evaluation, and an Iso on my biggest suspect, is there honestly any more you want from me, or that I can do?

[Regfan]

So, you're saying, you pretty much refuse to change your vote right now. Instead you'd rather just keep the lynch going and then 'Read whats happened when I flip town'? That seems unproductive.

[Regfan]

He's easily the scummiest player alive and claimed vanilla.

I'd love to see you elaborate on this, how have I been scummy? What have I done that makes you think I'm mafia?

[Regfan]

Sorry I'm capped at the moment so I'm avoiding logging on, I get uncapped tomorrow.

You've been tunneling on Dry-Fit since you came into the game. You came into the day talking about the power roles. Asking Don who he'd have protected if he was the JK was just weird. Like you were trying to figure out if he was a power role or something. You tried to twist Bio's town flip to somehow make Dry look scummier. The constant "I'm town" statements are scummy. Oh, and you claimed vanilla so there is no point trying to go after another lynch today.

I replaced into this game, and found him to be the scummiest by far, he has yet to provide any defense against this and has instead just voted me back.

My thoughts on how the mafia shot was that both mafia have to shoot thus one mafia getting jailed meant nothing, however clearly I was wrong about that as Don explained. Because I thought one mafia getting jailed meant nothing, I believed the best use of jailer would be to jail the person most likely to be shot which was Semi as no one suspected him yesterday.

You say there's no point in changing the lynch. This is however very wrong, as changing could and probably would result in the lynching of a mafia thus being very beneficial.

Also, Dry-Fit is pretty obvtown.

Elaborate please.

[Regfan]

Okay. I'm dead. I'd appreciate if Dry was lynched tomorrow.

[Regfan]

For the record I think the second mafia is Wdjat.

[Regfan]

Wow okay, thought I was hammered, forgot about the unvote earlier and it was close to 4am when I read Lowell's post.

The recent reactions to the Regfan wagon make me think he's scum as much as ever.

I'd really love for you to go into this, stop posting one liners saying you believe something and not going into it.

Can you show me the case? I don't recall seeing a good point against Dry anywhere in this game for him to defend against?

I have stated this various times but I'll go over it again if you like. DryFit has yet to provide any real content to this game and has refused to actually go into dept about any of his suspicions and his thoughts. Instead he's actively lurking throughout the whole game using 'Fairly useless questions' to hide the fact he hasn't nor is planning on scum hunting.

Many times I have asked him to go into depth about anything, and attempted to get him talking and every time he has ignored this request and continued lurking while his vote being on me.

I've done an ISO on him on Post subject: 219 on Page 9 and I'll try and do an updated one tonight.

[Regfan]

Pretty busy with easter things.. Sigh.

@Mod how many hours do we have left, actually this is at anyone.

[Regfan]

Firstly I'm not mafia. And before we no lynch I believe the best play is for tracker to claim, out all of his reports and then the jailer jails him. Therefore the chance a power-role can die is lessened greatly. Changing it from 2/3 of a power-role dying to a 1/2.

[Regfan]

You really really should unvote before the mafia jump on that and end the game. Why would I no kill Don? You're not making much sense, mafia no killed to force town to lynch earlier, I don't play like that I believe that mafia shouldn't be chickens and actually should shoot.

[Regfan]

No Don it's not lylo, but it is mylo meaning lynching me does result in a loss. My plan of tracker claiming for protection was actually a really really good one and would have resulted in a higher chance a vanilla townie dies tonight. Yet you're too blind to actually see that and you will continuously push on me throughout the whole day, I can already foresee that.

[Regfan]

I didn't ask tracker to claim for their results I asked them to claim because they're clear and when protected increase the likelyhood we will have 2 clears alive at lylo. However you claiming completly ruiend that.

I'm not going to stand here all day while you attack me over some stupid theory you've put together which is very wrong. Good game mafia, I'll take one guess at you guys before the game ends. I think Wdjat and Sleepless, feel free to vote me and end this because I really can not stand idiots.

[Regfan]

Well I have a massive exam in 3 hours so I don't exactly have time to defend myself again like I was forced to do throughout the whole of yesterday. Don's logic is stupid as fuck, me asking tracker to claim was a great move if he actually thought about it. Anyway so no one is forced to replace and re-read this shit hole I'll help end this. Don't get pissed at me for the loss, I tried extremely hard to prove to you I wasn't mafia all game.

Vote: Regfan

[Regfan]

Sigh alright I'm leaving in 5 minutes to head to the test, if you don't want me selfvoting or selfhammering I'll unvote but you should all unvote so I can post sometime in the next 48 hours defending myself and telling you why you shouldn't vote me.

Unvote

[Regfan]

Cancel the replacement. Sorry my uni exams and partying period have come to an end so I have time to focus on this..

Lowell - Un cc'ed tracker (Clear)
Don - Un cc'ed Jailkeeper (Clear)

Leaving

TDC, Wdjat, Myself and Sleepless (2 mafia in there)

If I'm correct.

There's currently 3 votes on me (From Sleepless/Don/Wdjat)

Meaning Lowell and TDC have the ability to hammer me right now, thus meaning if TDC was mafia he could have won by now (From my point of view of course).

To me this means that Sleepless and Wdjat are both confirmed mafia. I'll do an Iso on Wdjat and his replacement now, I'd appreciate if Lowell and TDC held of hammering.

[Regfan]

Alright, I've done a brief Iso on Wdjat here:


His begging game posts were mostly useless, some examples are:

Post 5 - Confirm - Null tell
Post 22 - RVS, mentions he doesn't know anyone here. - Null tell
Post 37 - Questions Ness's comment yet doesn't make any stance - Slightly scummy
Post 38 - Asks a useless question 'nessarae56, who ISN'T your scumbuddy?' - Slighly scummy.
Post 44 - States 'Oh my god you are not explaining this.' about Ness but doesn't say anything else. - Slightly scummy
Post 45 - Useless comment - Null tell.
Post 54 - Attacks SerRose's over defensiveness


He also goes into saying that we should give Lowell a day and if he lurks lynch him the following day (Closer to lylo, because he's an easier lynch to push then)

He makes it slightly evident that his FoS is SerRose yet doesn't make a case nor attempts to lead a lynch on it. He progresses to attack and question Confid, he eventually ends up hammering him.

As the following day beginning he begins to attack me as does Semi, this as previously stated would be a spot where mafia bussing the other would be a horrible idea as tracker/jailer together would be able to confirm the last mafia quite easily.

He however never places a vote on me even though he made it clear he believed I was mafia. As the game progresses he dies down into the background and eventually gets replaced out, but as he dies into the background he has the chance to hammer me or Dry-Fit and does neither, as town you think he would have at least voted his FoS, wouldn't you.

He gets replaced by Chrnorek, who instead of re-reading and stating his thoughts on everyone, or on me particularly just votes along with it because he knows once the lynch ends the games over, and he has won.

He stated he re-read the whole thread here:

'is it enough? i don't want to read whole thread again..'

Yet there's no actual scum-hunting or help from him, and from someone replacing into a game that's 20 something pages and on lylo, as town you'd expect them to attempt to help or at least state their views, yet he doesn't'.

Vote: chnorek

[Regfan]

Just read post 494. If that doesn't give away that he's mafia, then I don't know what will.

He's trying to convince me to unvote him, when he suspects I'm mafia. Now read this bit:

Next thing is you have claimed. Guess what? If you are VT you shoudnt claim. CLAIMING VT DOES HELP SCUM. with claim you confirmed you are either scum or useless, you are exposing our PR.

He's trying to throw suspicion onto me because I've claimed, but if he has re-read like he stated he would, he would notice I was at L-1, meaning it was in mine and the towns best interest to claim, and the fact I've claimed Vanilla Townie on mylo should mean nothing considering we have to lynch mafia.

[Regfan]

reg: who should i jail tonight? r u positive that TDC is town? could he be scum holding off to avoid exposing himself?

I'm positive TDC is town, he could hammer and end this if he's mafia. You should random between Sleepless and chnorek, both are scum.

[Regfan]

when you claim VT it means scum will have better chance to NK power role. Town want claim at L-1 so they dont misslynch PR by accident. Claiming VT doesnt help neither you or town, its like saying "im safe lynch, go ahead".
That shows you are either really bad town player or scum. As scum you couldnt claim PR anyways.
Now your claim really doesnt matter for scum as both of our PR claimed anyways and it doesnt matter for town either because there is no way to confirm if you are really VT or not other than lynching.

Is a whole bunch of bullshit to be frank. My claim right now means zilch. My claim shouldn't be a reason to vote me at all right now however you're attempting to use it as one. Lets see, you don't claim Jailkeeper or Tracker, that means you're a Vanilla townie, and by your logic we won't know if you're actually a vanilla townie or not until we lynch you, thus we should lynch you, right?

explain why have you self-voted?? twice??

Out of frustration. I can't stand a clear who randomly leads on something because of a made up theory of his and the fact I thought by him placing his vote mafia could end the game already so I was attempting to speed it up.

[Regfan]

yes it doesnt really matter anymore, PRs has been fished anyways.
i will skip arguing why not claiming VT is better than claiming, dont really see point in it.

So you realize your argument that me claiming Vanilla Townie makes me mafia is wrong and you have to retract it?

How could you know that mafia could end the game?

This is actually very simple and obvious, it's a situation if we msylnch we lose. I'm being voted by the clear and know I'm town from my point of view, thus I know mafia could have ended the game.

Also I noticed you said:

what? are you kidding me?
i did read the thread and ISOed TDC, SA and Lowell. Don is confirmed jk, you are basicly confirmed scum. i didnt bother ISOing wdjat, dont see the point in it.

Except you didn't Iso anyone, your thoughts on everyone were kept secret as in you hadn't posted anything until I called you out for it.

[Regfan]

rules state no lynch at deadline. i really think the fact that scum no killed last night indicates reg as scum. unless they were hoping to have him jailed and then frame him. no kill is always "sub optimal" scum play, though, so it makes me think it was done for fear of tracking and nothing else.

How do you think a no-kill last night makes me scum in any way, if anything it should be more proof that I'm town considering I find no-killing wrong. Also, the no-kill is very likely because the mafia were afk for the night period (Wdjat was for sure).

If you can really not see that chnorek is mafia from his recent posts, then this game is already over, and there isn't much point to continue to discuss anything as you've clearly got your mind stuck.

[Regfan]

if you are town, then scum has played well.

Read chnorek's posts again will you.

[Regfan]

Reasons why chnorek is mafia.
1. Wdjat refused to place a vote yesterday because doing so would have put suspicion onto him when either myself or Dry flipped.

2. Wdjat was afk during the night that mafia happen to not have a kill.

3. chnorek replaces in and says he'll re-read and then says he had but offers no insight or thoughts until this has been pointed out.

4. chnorek votes along with the bangwagon on me without actually explaining is vote in detail nor saying who he believes is the other mafia.

5. chnorek states "this is a little pointless he will get lynched anyways if you dont vote and lurking now doesnt help you guys anyways.
defend him or lynch him, there are no other possibilities." the you guys implies he's not one of us meaning he's mafia.

6. chorek acts shocked when I vote him although he says he's 99% sure I'm mafia thus my vote shouldn't matter to him.

7. Says he then believes mafia is myself and Sleepeless (The person who has pushed on me all game)

8. Pushes on the fact I self-voted.

9. Says I've claimed Vanilla Townie and there's no way to know until I'm lynched, also tries to push on me because of my claim.

10. Backpedals when he realizes the Vanilla Townie claim meant nothing.

[Regfan]

Hence the remaining scum will have no chance but to no-kill.

Is wrong, if mafia no kill, we gain a msylnch. Meaning say we lynch chnorek today. Then:

-> I get jailed.
-> No kill occurs
-> I get lynched.
-> Sleepless gets jailed
-> No kill occurs
-> You lynch Sleepless
-> TDC gets jailed
-> No kill occurs
-> You lynch TDC, game over.

Meaning mafia won't no-kill. Lynching mafia correctly today is autowin I believe.

[Regfan]

Also, if I were mafia. I'd have self-hammered right now to allow it to go to night before Don and Lowell organize who they would be jailing/tracking to give my partner a chance.

[Regfan]

I had hoped I could do without having to spell that out, as your buddy must be on your wagon right now, which implies that he wasn't aware of it until you just spelled it out.

Oh, because those 2 votes on me couldn't possibly both be mafia who are just about to win, right?

Do you honestly think I'm mafia? If so what do you think of Sleepless and chnorek.

Also, the thread's going to be open until the Mod comes in anyway, so it's entirely possible that dj would be able to announce his target even after you self-hammered.

Actually, this is true.

[Regfan]

My money is on SA being your buddy who wasn't aware of the acute danger in lynching you. He's totally been setting me up to be your buddy for quite a while now.

Then are you willing to lynch Sleepless now?

[Regfan]

Unvote: chnorek

Vote: Sleepless

[Regfan]

I'll give you a spoiler:

I'm not mafia.

[Regfan]

Also Don, tonight you need to random jail between Sleepless and chnorek. Good luck.