Open 246 - Vengeful 7p - Game Over

[AurorusVox]

/confirm

[AurorusVox]

That's 5.

And...?


VOTE: gandalf5166

You shall not pass!

[AurorusVox]

Self-voting? Let me help you with that...

Unvote
Vote: nopointinactingup

[AurorusVox]

Antihero, does this mean you condone selfvoting?

[AurorusVox]

Too much WIFOM. To me, a self vote says "Vote me, I dare you," which makes people

not

want to vote for you. I read self-voting as scum trying to deflect votes.

[AurorusVox]

Putting someone

who is self-voting

at L-1 is different. It was highly likely that he would unvote - proving my point that he didn't actually want votes on himself (so: why self vote?). Even if he didn't do this, if someone

had

quickhammered this early on, we'd have had a good case to shoot that person.

And L-1 is not hammering; it's not even really a L-1 vote when one of those votes is from the person him or herself.

[AurorusVox]

It was highly likely that he would unvote - proving my point that he didn't actually want votes on himself (so: why self vote?).

No one

wants

votes on himself. The self vote seems like a gambit to catch opportunistic scum, like you.

I fail to see what's so opportunistic about it. Please tell me what benefit scum would have from putting a townie at L-1 this early on?

On the other hand, as town:
- I think selfvoting is a scumtell, and thus I think he's scum; so I currently want to see him pressured and, if that pressure doesn't change my mind, lynched
- I think he'll unvote himself; which forces him to put his vote somewhere else, thus giving town more information should he eventually get lynched and flip scum

Even if he didn't do this, if someone

had

quickhammered this early on, we'd have had a good case to shoot that person.

This doesn't mean that you aren't scum.

One for one trades don't benefit scum, since their numbers are fewer than the townies. And if someone quickhammered, either the L-1 or the hammer vote would probably be shot. If I'm scum - why would I want this?

[AurorusVox]

If you are scum, you would have all the benefit of

putting me at L-1.

This is what I don't get. If you had already had two votes on you, from people other than yourself, then yes, I would agree that voting to L-1 so soon is a big deal. But when one of those votes is from yourself, I was really only putting you at L-2, since it was obvious you would unvote.

Regarding "slipping through"
Do you expect that since that vote, I would just sit by and do nothing for the rest of the day? The rest of the game? If I voted you to L-1, then went inactive or lurked, that would be different, but I have no intention of doing that. Not to mention that the attention I've received since my vote can hardly be considered "slipping through".

[AurorusVox]

I'll consider that, but I still think your action looks more like what a scum would do.

And I think your self-voting looks more like what scum would do, but, given the response of everyone else in the game so far, I'll consider that maybe it isn't as much a scumtell in vengeful games as in regular ones. I still think that scum benefits more from self-voting than town, though.

---

Gandalf: At this moment, who do you think is the GF?

---

CSL (regarding your suggestion)
Do you think it's a bad idea to look for the Godfather then?

[AurorusVox]

My vote's on DMSIS right

now.

So you find him scummier for not turning up and being replaced?

[AurorusVox]

I like where my vote is a lot better

now.

^I quoted the wrong "now" ><

[AurorusVox]

That seems weak...If anything, if you're going to find him scummy for lurking, his impending replacement should make you less suspicious.

[AurorusVox]

Look for scumz, then lynch them.

Okay.

*looks* Oh...there he is!

Unvote

I just want to have a question answered before the hammer/flip;
Vezo, do you think CSL is the GF too? You asked about lynching a townie earlier, so I'm curious as to what you make of him.

[AurorusVox]

Well that's broken my question =_="

[AurorusVox]

Why are you so concerned with DMSIS and whether he gets replaced or not?

[AurorusVox]

How can he flail if he hasn't even posted yet?

[AurorusVox]

Lol, I never got a link either. At least we know he wasn't lurking, right?

---

I agree with Antihero; it looked like a poorly disguised bus. It's why I had wanted my question answered before hammering ><"

Vote: vezokpiraka

So, why did you want to vote to lynch CSL again?

---

Gandalf;
Your initial suspects for GF were CSL and DMSIS. Since CSL has flipped goon, has that changed your assessment at all?

---

Regarding nopoint;
I think that if he's scum, he's probably the GF. The reasons I think GF or bust are:

1) The self-vote, in my opinion, still has a function of deterring people from voting for him. It's also possible he asked scumVezo to vote for him in the QT to get early distancing and make it even harder for people to vote for him. After all, if anyone dared vote for him, he could immediately point a finger and say "scum!" It would be a ballsy WIFOMy play from a GF, but I think it could pay off.
2) CSL seemed to want to get me lynched with his strategy of lynching the "suspicious person" instead of looking for the GF. I wonder if this was an attempt to have me shoot my top suspect at the time, who would have been nopoint. Since shooting GF is better than having him lynched, it piqued my interest. On the other hand, maybe CSL wanted me to shoot town-nopoint, thus getting the insta-win for scum.

[AurorusVox]

No, it guarantees him not wanting to be accused of the same thing you accused me of.

[AurorusVox]

I'm going to be without internet access 6th-17th, but I'll still try to get online at the library for an hour or so each day, so hopefully it won't make much difference. If I don't manage to get online at all, it would probably be better if I was replaced than going V/LA for the entire time, which is why I don't want to make it anything official.

However, I will be

V/LA

this whole weekend.

[AurorusVox]

I can still get behind a Nopoint lynch for reasons included in my GF speculation post, but I'd like to hear Vezo's answer to my question first.

[AurorusVox]

No, it guarantees him not wanting to be accused of the same thing you accused me of.

A scum

HoS you with the intent to vote

obviously means he's stalling to make up his mind whether to buss or not.

Obviously? I disagree. I see it as CSL trying to avoid putting the L-1 vote down. Just look at the reactions towards both the people who did make L-1 votes.

[AurorusVox]

I thought DMSIS was town because he felt the same way about me as nopoint, but after that little exchange, I'm not so sure. Especially;

I think that Nopoint is acting very very scummy right now, mainly because of his

self vote, and his OMGUS

three posts up.

---

unvote
Vote: shotty

In response to Antihero saying DMSIS was scum;

ok scum bag lynch me

---

Can we lynch hypocrite-DMSIS today and then if need be lynch Vezo tomorrow? The vote for Vezo looked like a GF bussing his goon, and I can't let my entire game be dictated by whether or not Vezo posts.

Unvote; Vote: DMSIS

[AurorusVox]

I move house and someone gets lynched T_T

The way I see it;
Vezo is probably the goon to either nopoint or DMSIS GF. We could lynch Vezo today since he makes sense as a goon to either one of them; or we could pick which one of nopoint/DMSIS is likeliest GF and if they're town, they can still shoot one of the other two.

I think lynching one of the 50:50 GF targets works best, because if we hit GF we win today; and if we hit town we still get rid of one scum with the shot. That said, if we lynch Vezo today and he's a goon, we can still afford a mislynch. So it just depends whether or not we want to use our shot or not.

I probably can't get on til Thursday now (I might make it on tomorrow, but I'm not sure). I'll vote when I get online next.

[AurorusVox]

I'm here, I was just reading my other game first.

IMO, Vezo is goon, DMSIS is GF. I'll go get the posts that make me think this.

[AurorusVox]

^Doubt it, since vezo called DMSIS a scum goon.

But then he voted for nopoint. If Vezo is goon, he's not going to call his GF the GF, is he? By calling DMSIS goon, he gives himself a reason to not vote for DMSIS.

[AurorusVox]

I think that Nopoint is acting very very scummy right now, mainly because of his self vote, and his OMGUS three posts up.

^As I said before, his reasons for "suspecting" nopoint were things that he himself had actually done. I find hypocrisy - especially valuing certain reads more when you're on the offensive than the defensive - to be a sure-scum tell.

Then he tunnels nopoint ("Seriously No Point is scum" with little other scumhunting) but votes Vezo out of nowhere;

unvote vote vezo

This vote (without explanation) makes sense to me if he thinks Vezo is going to get lynched; and

knows

that he's scum. This way, DRM can look good when Vezo flips scum. It was an opportunistic bus when he saw that lynching a townie wasn't going to happen.

I am town but what ever

unvote
Vote: shotty

here we go I'm fucking sick of this game allready

Then he self votes (this is half of the hypocrisy I accuse him of) and uses AtE.

After this, his explanation of the vezo vote ("I just think no point and vezo are scum, I had always thought vezo was, but I was hoping for a no point lynch. But I'm ok with either.") which seems to me to be DRM going back to justify it after he put the vote down. If he had always thought Vezo was scum, why wasn't Vezo his first vote? I say its because he was hoping for the mislynch first, and the bus second.

I was really really high on pain killers earlier, I was just posting to post mainly

^Then he admits to active lurking...

After that his votes flip between Vezo and nopoint; seeing whether he can get away with the mislynch or the bus. If he honestly thought vezo was scum, he should have kept his vote there the whole time. He could have voted Vezo with you yesterday, but he opted to go for the mislynch instead.

His behaviour might just be erratic, but I see a lot to point to a GF trying to see whether he can get away with mislynching, or if he'd have to bus.

[AurorusVox]

As for Vezo/DMSIS interaction...

You never heard of DSMIS?
You really don't want him to get a vig shot.

^Tries to discourage DMSIS's lynch "if" there's a vig shot in play. He votes for DMSIS anyway (potential distancing?) but then immediately finds a reason to retract the vote - his next post is a vote for Gandalf who "tricked" him into voting DMSIS.

I have an idea. Let's lynch nopoint.

Straight out of the gate he goes for nopoint.

Nopoint - Either mafia GF or town
DSMIS - Lurker scum goon.

This scumlist enables him to go for nopoint but

not

go for DMSIS.

If you need any more proof,

I really don't see why you are trying so hard to kill DSMIS. Let's leave him alone and kill nopoint.

"Let's not kill DMSIS. Come on, let's kill nopoint."

If DMSIS was town and I was scum, DMSIS would have been the optimum mislynch for scum to make. DMSIS thought nopoint was scum, and so he (probably) would have chosen to shoot nopoint. That would have given scum the win. But Vezo went full out against nopoint from the get go, and made sure to avoid lynching DMSIS.

On the other hand, nopoint thought that me and Vezo were scum. And so his shot was going to be between the two of us. Why would Vezo push for the lynch of someone who may have shot his partner?

[AurorusVox]

No, but I'm operating under the assumption that he is due to the reasons I have set out above.

As I said before, I'm with limited access, so I don't have the time to wait and see what he flips before posting my case.

[AurorusVox]

CSL calling his Godfather lurker scum ROFL!

Did you see anyone else voting for DMSIS at that point? Was CSL's one vote/suspicion going to get him lynched?

[AurorusVox]

I got shot.
Way to lose.

Mwahahahaha.

Are you saying you're town? ><

[AurorusVox]

I'm not laughing. DRM/Anti scumteam? I didn't see that one coming.

[AurorusVox]

><" phew, we're not dead yet!

Anti: Notice how the scum is implicitly denying my explanation of the nopoint lynch ("It was because nopoint is good, not because I wanted to avoid a DMSIS lynch").

---

Unfortunately, I've gotta go again (my phoneline at home isn't getting installed til the 17th despite me ordering it ages ago, so frustratingly no internet). I'll try to get on again tomorrow. I want to re-read Anti before voting anyway; that moment of thinking Vezo was town has planted a tiny seed of doubt in my mind ("could Anti be playing a very, very good scumgame?")

Anti, DMSIS, sorry for being V/LA in LYLO, but if you have any questions/whatever for me, can you please be patient in waiting for my response? Also, DMSIS, I'd like your take on my analysis of you. If you think I'm misrepping/misunderstanding your intentions, let me know.

[AurorusVox]

I got shot.
Way to lose.

Mwahahahaha.

I thought he meant town had lost, and didn't see any reason for him to lie. I think I just misunderstood.

Btw i'm on my girlfriends phone internet so I might get access a bit more than I had thought

[AurorusVox]

My iso of anti leaves me with two options. Because he has been hot on the trail of scum the whole game, starting and encouraging their lynch or killing, I naturally think he's town. That said, he could be a gf getting town points from bussing his goons. But i'm confident enough in my drmsis read, and vexo's interaction with drmsis, to maintain that town read on anti.

VOTE: Drmyshottyissick

Here's a question: if I was csl's gf, why didn't he let me hammer him?

[AurorusVox]

Scum vote first in lylo? Are you sure they don't wait for someone else to vote first and then quickhammer if they can, and omgus vote if they can't?

[AurorusVox]

Here's a question: if I was csl's gf, why didn't he let me hammer him?

Meh, you would've then been in the spotlight the next day (like the person in the hammer spot usually is).

But the tradeoff was townpoints for hammering scum, which surely would be good for a gf. I think he self voted because his gf wasn't there to bus him and he didn't want anyone else to get the credit.

[AurorusVox]

Woo. I was reading along on my phone but I couldn't get online to post on Sunday. I was worried it was going to cause GREAT INJUSTICE, but it looks like it was alright ^^"

And btw, I really honestly would have put nopoint at L-1 for self voting even if I had been town >_<"