Open 336: Scales of Justice (Town wins!)

[farside22]

Scott: Said it the best. I was leaning on doc because in my heart of hearts I think ninja is an awesome role.
Scotts point about watching a player and seeing them dead with no results would confirm ninja in the game.
cop is obvious.

vote: cop
vote: watcher

[farside22]

Hi all, nice to play with you.

I agree that Cop & Watcher is probably the most useful combo out there, as at least one informative role can detect all scum.

You do know the GF role comes up innocent to cop investigations?

[farside22]

Mod: Monitor took a shit on me this morning. Possible V/LA for the next 2 days.


I found scott's comments and rationale to be the most town. Consp gets a town nod for coming to the point first but Scott was more thought out and wins.

vote: Glow

Lets see if she squirms.

[farside22]

@Conspiracy: Lets look at what you and Darox stated.

Vote: Cop

This one is obvious

The second one is more tricky, but I think the mafia would choose hitman over ninja for follow the cop purposes

Vote: Watcher

Watcher > Tracker
Doc (with cop) > RB (with cop)

So if someone gives me a better reason to choose doc over watcher, I might switch.

Hello everybody, I'm your replacement scumhunter.

Conspiracy got it down.
Watcher Cop, let's do this.

Cop with godfather can still get the other scum.
Tracker/Watcher with ninja can still verify the cop.
Doctor with a Strongman is useless.
Roleblocker can be an inadvertent threat to other town role and is useless against Strongman.

Vote: Cop

Vote: Watcher

Tell me how this did not explain it the best with the best reasoning ever.

I think watcher should be the other choice. You aren't going to get any false results with a watcher (besides the rare situation of a ninja and town PR targeting the person who is killed but that is rare). Even if there is a ninja, if I watch Quilford, Quilford dies but I get a result that nobody visited him, then even though I don't have a result, we know that the mafia picked ninja. Tracker could potentially get false negatives tracking someone nowhere if they are ninja. Doctor would be third choice

Your post was WIFOM.
Darox talked a bit about tracker/watcher without explain it, then wham scott explain it in full details with sound reasoning.

Tell me I'm wrong. Tell me how this is fake?
So you want to give full credit to yourself and Darox for posting first with not a lot of reasoning for some reason?

GODAMMIT MISSED D0

If I had gotten to vote, I would've chosen Cop and Roleblocker I think... Roleblockers are always useful. Watcher's fine.
I'm EST (GMT-5)

That's horrible.

fos: DJ

Just for the idea alone.

A small part feels like Glow is overreacting early a bit much on 2 votes.
I also don't like Friend. First the push on wanting a doctor (this is noted more if scum flips strongman) and the reasoning on Glow makes no sense.

No Conspiracy let's do me today and then you tomorrow after I flip town since you are so confident.

This is oddly frazzled for such early-game play. I don't know why a townie would be so aggressive.

VOTE: glowball

I know more aggressive townies then scum. Where are you getting the opposite from?

I also feel the need to smack CS's scumdar a few times, then kick it, then smash it. It really is broken.

I'm still not sure what to think about Glow enough to switch my vote just yet.

[farside22]

Town: explains why watcher is best for own opinion.
Scum: knows that after three players said that watcher is better than tracker, that it would be unwise to advertise tracker.

First off there was 2 players saying watcher, Friend was the 3 person and he was talking about doc.
And no what scum will do is just follow people without saying much else or make bad choices.
You have no idea about me if you think I'm scum.
Scott explained why watcher is best. How was it not his own opinion?

I discredit people when I know for fact that your wrong.
If it makes you feel better you can lynch me today and feel stupid tomorrow. But you know using meta argument and me flipping town makes you look scummy.
I would rather not have the town lose do to your bad calls.

[farside22]

glowball is playing way to aggressively Day 1 to be town.
farside is just acting odd. She's trying too hard to seem town (ie faking).

VOTE: glowball

Also, about the Roleblocker thing, I forgot that Scum got a PR. I wasn't thinking strategically, I just said my two favaourite roles off the list, not realizing the combo was terrible.

unvote:
vote: DJ

Okay lets go down the list.
How is aggressive scummy? 90% of the players I see play aggressive is town. Why are you voting for glow for that.
How am I faking? What looks fake?

Now lets go onto my vote. First you picking RB had nothing to do with scum team. You do realize that an RB could block the cop which is bad for the town.
Second: picking "favorites" without logic is bad
Third: BW voting and vomiting what others stated in this game is scummy.

*waits for CS to bring up scott again*

[farside22]

@Friend: I asked you a question I'm still waiting for an answer.

I know more aggressive townies then scum. Where are you getting the opposite from?

[farside22]

@CS: Please read what I say before posting

First off there was 2 players saying watcher,

Friend was the 3 person and he was talking about doc

.

If he is scum, he dídn't even need it to be his opinion.

I'm saying scott has his own opinion which is why I say it looks to come from a town point of view.

Please stop trying to discredit my reads when I already explained why I see Scott's view coming from town and why.

[farside22]

By the way your whole "far doesn't have town reads early as town" is about to be smashed
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.p ... 8#p3247908

I could get more but I think one is enough. Page two I stated 2 town reads and I was right. Soooo don't tell me about town reads early = scum.

[farside22]

@ Friend, what is your opinion of farside's fast town read?

Fast town read on who?

Glowball, shh I just called you town. Don't ruin it.

I said I had a town read on Scott and slight town read on CS. Come on there is only 2 pages.

[farside22]

I really don't care about that, I just hate people with crap scumtells. I call for 1v1 to prove a point. If you can be aggressive and premature calling scumteams I can 1v1.

*pats glow on the back*

CS is most likely not scum. He's bad town in my view. I know his scum game better then he knows me.
He doesn't make claims like that early and he doesn't push reasoning like he is when he's scum.

Yah it's meta, but it is more valid since we have hydra together.

[farside22]

Yes. Because I have yet to come across a town player who calls scumteams this early. His confidence of my scum status on Day 0 to me is suspicious enough. Either he is scum or he's a liability for thinking he can do that and being obvwrong.

So I wouldn't mind being lynched

if

I flip town Conspiracy would be next.

1) You don't use if.
2) if you don't know his alignment or can see for sure you think his view is coming from scum. Asking 1 vs 1 helps scum if he is town and if you are town

[farside22]

farside22's V/LA is noted.

Mod: This is no longer happening. I got the monitor fixed

[farside22]

OKAY.
1. When I don't use IF people attack that too, so whatthefuckever.
2. I really think he is scum because calling scumteams this early isn't something I've seen town do AND he's in confirmation bias from Day 0 to now on page 3. IF ON THE SLIM CHANCE that I am wrong I wouldn't feel bad about 1v1 because he is a liability but I don't think I am wrong. Conspiracy is probably scum

I'll just call you

Fourseen

this game instead of Glowball if you don't stop. Then I will add you to my list of people who are bad players like CSL, Vezo and NS.
Because I can't imagine that you of all people don't care about town winning. Go off the computer, take a nap and come back with something rationale.

Yes. Because I have yet to come across a town player who calls scumteams this early.

You're dumb.
And you're playing dumb.

Let's lynch Scott.

Why is scott scummy?

[farside22]

I'm sorry, but I completely disagree with that reasoning glowball. I can't see how you can be so overly sure about someone's alignment just because of some D1-first-page trash talk.

I could see glowball's mindset coming from town though and I don't know what farside is up to with that "if"-poke.

Using the word if in her sentence is bad. Someone see's that and will call her out for saying she is not town.

Seriously I'm preventing the inevitable remarks. I think Glow is town and being bad town right now.
She has no clue how hypocritical her comments are right now. I'm trying to stop a fight and scum hunting at the same time.

So far DJ is scummy. Darox pushing on scott without explanation has me looking at him. It's still early but every person I knock off and see as town I narrow it down to who is scum.

edit before post: @ Darox I'm honestly not seeing it there.

[farside22]

Glow:

Your calling him obv scum
He's calling out scum team.
Both of you want to lynch each other on obv scum tells.
Well he wants to lynch me first then you, but he's saying obv scum team.
Your calling him out for saying obv scum team on page 2. Your saying obv scum on page 3. Really the only difference is he is saying scum team and your saying one scum.

See the similarities?

[farside22]

I see no "bad town"-ish behavior in ConSpiracy - yes he could be scum but the scenarios presented by glowball are nowhere useful at the moment. How about we bin this 1v1 thing for the moment and continue scumhunting elsewhere?

Thank you!!!!!

Back to lynching DJ then.....or will Darox explain in more details about Scott?

[farside22]

Also, you cannot blame my lynch on the fact that you think I am "bad town". Conspiracy, Friend, and DonJosh voted me based on my aggression and having me as a scum read NOT as a policy lynch

Friend isn't voting for you any longer.

I think Conspiracy is scum, you guys saying otherwise doesn't change anything. I am scum hunting,, he is scum. Disagree all you want-- I've fought this uphill battle in many other games and have been proven right.

There is more then one scum. I don't care that you want to play martyr to your reads. Look at everyone and move on.

[farside22]

I am being insulted and personally attacked
I have been called a bad player
Some people think I am scum

SO
My reads are of no use to you if you think that way
If I am bad player then my reads are bad
If I am scum then my reads are scummy

I see no use in continuing to feed into the attitudes against me.
When apologies come reads will follow. If not, I will just continue to scum hunt on my own.

If being called scum is insulting your in the wrong game.


I actual think calling someone a bad player is nicer and less insulting then VI :shrug:

[farside22]

"They think I'm not being helpful, so I'll show them!

I'll prove them right by throwing a tantrum and refusing to work for the town!"

[farside22]

The attacks from all of you are doing less service than me talking is... If you want me gone, lynch me and you'd get what you deserve for that. If not just lay off instigating isn't going to change my attitude and neither is continuously attacking me.

You could always replace out.

Honestly the martyr attitude needs to stop.
And FTR my pic was in regards to Darox continuing his comment. In my view it's like starting a fire and running, do to your emotional actions this game.

[farside22]

Is it bad that I am down to 3 people I would like to lynch and everyone is either town read or not scummy enough.

Maybe I need to do a CS and claim who the scum team is now.

Hey Darox you could put Glow on ignore. I would like to just lynch scum and stop poking the tigress.

who out of these people do you find scum (name more then one).

DonJosh
Scott
Yoshi
Friend

[farside22]

CS: What is your problem with my town read on Scott early?

Here is what I stated:

I found scott's comments and rationale to be the most town. Consp gets a town nod for coming to the point first but Scott was more thought out and wins

Never have I said that the issue was that you had an early town read. The issue is that it is fake.

How do you know it's fake? I explained a reason. You can't just say OMG it's fake because it was so fast. I showed you I do it as town as well as doing it as scum. That makes it null!

Now your claiming it's not how quick my town read is but that it's fake town reading.
Now prove it.

[farside22]

@Scott: Any thoughts on the less talkative ones? Friend, Yoshi, EJ?

[farside22]

As I said multiple times, the only thing that Scott added was why watcher was better than tracker. that could be the only thing that could have given the town read.

AND THAT IS WHAT GIVES ME A TOWN READ BECAUSE HOLY SHIT I DON'T' SEE SCUM WANTING TO SCREW THEMSELVES OVER BY USING LOGIC FOR THE WHOLE FUCKING TOWN TO UNDERSTAND.

He did that after three people preferred watcher over tracker (I said watcher>tracker, Darox voted watcher, Friend didn't even care to mention tracker)

ONLY 2 PEOPLE PREFERRED WATCHER! AND I FUCKING EXPLAIN THAT YOUR THOUGHT PROCESS AND DAROX DIDN'T EXPAND ENOUGH TO REALLY GIVE MUCH TO THE REASONS LIKE SCOTT DID. THAT MAKES SCOTT'S COMMENTS MORE COMING FROM TOWN THEN YOU OR DAROX!

I do agree with DonJosh being scummy because of his vote, but he's not really doing much else.

I only have played with DJ once that I recall, (ongoing game).
He flaked but the vote and reasoning is weak and as I said before was vomited by others in thread. He had no original thought.

Yoshi is my other scum call right now. It's those little things along with gut.

[farside22]

Glow,

You have no reason to trust me. You have no reason to like me. But can you just threaten that you will hammer DJ so he can "claim".

I really have a good theory and it helps to put egg on a players face in the game.
Really just look at my sig. (the first one)
And know that I'm looking to see CS get his comeuppance , but I want to lynch scum to do so.

Sincerely

Farside the bitch.

[farside22]

Thing is, I do have to admit that I find myself agreeing with you about the dj wagon. I havent seen many L-1 wagons on page four end up being on scum

So you agree with what everyone said but because it's early you don't believe he is scum?
You do realize there is 9 players in the game. Some are chatting more then others.

Tell what problem do you have with Ej's reasoning? The timing?

Scott's L-1 vote looks especially reckless in this light, I am not sure how it is pro-town to risk the day ending this early.

You know the last time someone said this to me they were scum protecting their scum buddy.

[farside22]

Ah wait I misunderstood Yoshi. He thinks the wagon going on DJ is too fast and thinks there is scum on it.

Okay tell me Yoshi: How do you feel about a player that vomits the same crap everyone says and does an opportunistic BW vote?

Also my little thing about you is your questions. They feel false (gut) and also they are pointless. (the ones to CS). When ever I see a player floating by giving very little opinion and asking some pointless questions it comes off scummy, especially in a 9 player game where I expect to see scum lurking.

[farside22]

I think I answered that with my eijo vote, unless I'm missing something here?

Point DJ did that. Except he just said less then DJ.

How were my questions to CS pointless? Playing call-the-scumteam on page three is dumb and with a player of his caliber, scummy. Someone needed to call him on it.

Your not reading the game if you think no one has called him that. dumb = scum?
Okay lets go through your questions that bothered me.

Second, how is scumhunting in pairs helpful for the town so early in a game?

This is strawman. Plus when you add this.

@glowball, you just won't give reads? Wtf? Comments like THAT are honestly more scummy than what people were dinging you for earlier.

Pointless. She's being stubborn and salky anyone reading (except CS who is just tunneling too hard and can't take a step back) and read that.


In post 79, Eijolend wrote:I'm sorry, but I completely disagree withthat reasoning glowball. I can't see how you can be so overly sure about someone's alignment just because of some D1-first-page trash talk.

Then what do you think of CS's conviction of a glowball-farside scumteam?

What was the point of this question with Eijolend?

I actually think glowball has a point that this is premawture and scummy.

It's scummy no matter his answer.

Question for you, farside (and everyone else on the DJ wagon): why didn't you unvote after Scott's vote to prevent a possible quickhammer?

I think DJ is scum.

[farside22]

Do you generally consider a push for a quick D1 to be pro-town?

There null. I have seen town and scum both push for a quick lynch day 1. I know I'm town and I don't see anything town about DJ.

As for your assessment of CS' and his scum call on page 2. How many scum have you run across that is stubborn on reads as much as CS has been this game?

That's no answer as to why you'd rather lynch a conf. town over a near-scum to you. You are not even trying.

Confirmed town? Who?

No one is confirmed. We had pregame not a night 0.

[farside22]

Sup, dummy.
Claiming truthfully is AWFUL.

Real vanilla claims reduce the NK pool.
Real power claims let the mafia faceroll. Especially if they have a ninja.

Either everybody fakeclaims vanilla, or everyone fakeclaims powers. Powers is the better option of the two.

Basically, the idea is don't claim at all, but if you feel you must, fake it as either a cop or a watcher.

This is a horrible, horrible idea.
Town does this and the real PR claims, then all it does it get scum info and a town lynched.

Don't coach scum on how to claim damn it!

[farside22]

Town does this and the real PR claims, then all it does it get scum info and a town lynched.

What? What are you trying to say here?

Your suggesting that someone who is VT fake claim a PR. How the fuck is that a good idea? Please think. The VT runs up and fake claims guess what happens dip.....Take a wild guess.
Now tell me how that helps the town.


This news just in.
Someone is actively lurking this gamescum

This makes me feel better about my vote and makes me want to smack the shit out of Darox for making the statement he did in the first place.

[farside22]

Let me just break out down nice and simple like.

Town VT gets asked to claim. They claim cop/watcher. Town PRs are not retarded, so they don't counter claim. They and everyone else decides if said person is lynch worthy regardless of claim.

Town PR gets asked to claim. They claim cop/watcher. Everyone else decides if said person is lynch worthy regardless of claim.

Scum gets asked to claim. They claim cop/watcher. Town PRs are not retarded, so they don't counter claim. They and everyone else decides if said person is lynch worthy regardless of claim.

Meanwhile, on the opposite side, scum is playing with PR wifom and worrying about the watcher, rather than having their NK choices handed to them on a fucking silver platter.

I would rather have caught scum fake claiming.

I would have also rather seen people just claim VT, but if it's a real watcher/cop we should not be having to "decide" on lynching them. Let the scum team kill them and we try to lynch someone else we find scummy.
How wrong is that.

[farside22]

I would rather have caught scum fake claiming.

How?

Just curious.

Cause, you know, scum don't act at random. There is not a 2/7 chance that they will claim a power role. And if they're going to be lynched anyway, why are you giving them the chance to out a power role.

I like the idea of confirming scum. It makes things nice and easy and with the way that CS is acting I was hoping to prove that DJ was scum and he can go sit on a (insert word here) with his so called scum read.

[farside22]

I also think saying a wagon that goes fast has to have scum on it when there is (1) no flip of the players alignment and (2) there is a valid case makes me really see DJ/Yoshi scum team right now.

[farside22]

Yoshi: There is a big difference between DJ lurking and scott.
DJ is posting elsewhere (I have a link to those who are playing.)
Scott is not

Saying a wagon is fast does not make it scum driven. I have seen quick lynches flip scum. The fact there hasn't been a hammer does not = DJ town either. I don't know where you are getting that from.
There is also a possible scum buss with DJ's comment scum buddy could be on the wagon. I don't see EJ as scum. I have seen many a player miss things when their reading or commenting on things going on. I myself had to go back and reread and realized I missed a player that was offering nothing to the game. This does not make a player scummy. It's null at best as I know scum can fake that "reread" as well.

[farside22]

@Ankamius: You mention a Yoshi/Glow connection but your voting DJ. Can you explain how you go from a group of 2 you find scum together to saying DJ is scum?

[farside22]

And you are now, what, the fourth player to basically say I'm scummy by association? Farside, Scott, and you are all saying I'm scummy for being leery of the DJ wagon, and Ankamius thinks I'm scummy by association with Glow (but I'll get to that in a minute). Methinks someone/someones in this group is trying to tee up a future mislynch already

.


Wouldn't that mean that DJ is scum if you think someone is trying to set up for your mislynch......oh look no vote from Yoshi to DJ.



Listen you can't say there scum on DJ wagon and it's a fast lynch then go swerve to the left and say hey people are saying I'm scum with DJ, me think it's teeing up for a mislynch.

Either DJ is town in your view or scum.

Pick one.

[farside22]

I have seen quick lynches flip scum too, but far more frequently in my experience, quick wagons have been on town. I'm also NOT saying no hammer= DJ is town, I don't know where you're getting that from. I'm saying that nobody unvoting immediately was likewise suspicious, and you've said and done nothing to refute that.

So Eijo isn't scum to you, and you're defending Scott. So if there were a bus, you're saying it's a DJ-Friend/Ank scumteam? What about it makes it seem like a bus to you?

I'm not unvoting someone I think is scum. Why do you keep asking people to unvote?
Second Friend/Ank is actually on the short scum list I have. Nothing really screams town and his most reason post (Ank) wasn't really good. It made no sense as to why he thought DJ is scum or where he is getting Glow/Yoshi scum team.
I've already stated a town read on Scott's. It's early sure but nothing about his post screams scummy.

[farside22]

UGH!!!!

I hate when people replace out without commenting either. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

I really feel the way he did the was scummy as shit too.

fuck me.

unvote:
vote: DY

Only doing this as he is my second scum suspect and I don't see anyone willing to hammer DJ at this point.....*looks at Darox like it's his fault*

Top 3 scum for me.

DJ (insert replacement name here)
DY
Ank

[farside22]

unvote:
vote: DY

forgot to bold.

fos: DJ's replacement

[farside22]

@Darox: most scum fake claim to out the real PR so they know who to kill. That is just scum 101.

I also want you to explain what about CS case you like and why?

[farside22]

@Scott: Put his excuses about DJ to the side for a moment. What did you think of his view of the players in the game?

I got the impression reading that he has more experience then the 2011 next to his time here in MS.
Call it gut. Call it the fact I don't like Darox sitting on Scott and then voting for DY, but little things like that, that always make my gut twinge a bit.

[farside22]

yeah the more I think about things I just dont' like Darox.

Poking at the hornets nest that is Glow. Talking about town fake claiming. I know Darox has been around long enough to see scum fake claim and CCing a fake claim helps the town win the game.
His vote on DY. His reason for find scott scum. I don't feel motivated or even see much as far scum hunting goes.

unvote:
vote: Darox

[farside22]

@Darox: most scum fake claim to

out the real PR so they know who to kill.

That is just scum 101.

Gee, I WONDER WHY I'm suggesting we avoid claiming. Must just be the fairies screwing with my head again.

I also want you to explain what about CS case you like and why?

I haven't really been paying close attention to the CS case, apart from that bit about meta which doesn't really phase me.

I have, however, been looking at Yoshi, and he is weaselly as fuck.

No you suggest either everyone claiming a PR, everyone claiming VT or not claiming at all.

What is weaselly about Yoshi? What don't you like? Explain

[farside22]

Darox's opinion about townies fakeclaiming power roles both makes no sense and looks scum motivated. I don't see town motivation in increasing WIFOM.

Try harder.
There are two very simple explanations.

If you get stuck, try thinking about the power roles in play.

Heres the problem I have with your point. If ever person claims PR and the PR's are alive at end game then we trust no one at that point. If the scummiest person says hey I'm watcher and the person I have a town reads says no I'm watcher. I vote scummiest at the end and that player was town (seriously it happened to me once) town loses. This is why I see fake claiming PR as scummy.
You have yet to explain how fake claiming will help in the long run for the town. I see dister.

Also if you tell me that whom the person targeted should make a difference I won't get started on the number of bad choices I have seen town make when choosing a player to watch.

[farside22]

I forgot to include the part where the scum are also shoddily scripted Mafiabots who suicide by making obvious fakeclaims in an open instead of actual thinking human beings.

Oh I forgot to mention that scum apparently are morons.......lets not finish this thought I'm not helping scum.

[farside22]

Yup.
The only time they're going to claim is when they are already dead, in order to out the real power roles.

Soooooooooo why do we want claiming again?

No against claiming. Against town fake claiming PR.

Wow did I miss that conversation.

*note* sorry for the triple post.

[farside22]

@CS:
Tell me what about Darox post and reasoning on DY you found valid.
Tell me how town fake claiming a PR is good for end game.
Tell me what good case you saw from Darox in regards to Scott.

[farside22]

1. The voting for DY.
2. Tell me what he actually meant with it.
3. None.

@CS:
1. Ooooohhhhh Darox is town for agreeing with you instead of ass-kissing scum thanks for clarifying.
2. Thanks for avoiding answering my question. This means you don't have an answer how it's town or what purpose fake claiming PR's is good for end game.
3. point in farsides favor +1

[farside22]

Farside's #195: I long since stopped asking people to unvote, and am outright saying the lack of an unvote is scummy. Also, why the double standard with Ank and Scott? With the Friend/Ank slot, apparently you're needing towntells to put that slot on a town read, but with Scott, the absence of scumminess is enough to put him on a town read?

Nothing from friend/ank has been informative in any way shape or form. I see from them more just following the crowd. Look how for example Ank takes something pig says and pushes it as a scum tell. Push his vote on others have not made sense.
Scott at least had something at the start and makes sense.

Farside's #201: Why would you abandon an L-1 wagon on your strongest scumread with Voting me specifically aside, the fact that you voted ANYONE else with only several days to the deadline is bad. The logic being that a hammer on the leading wagon becomes much more likely as the deadline gets closer simply because town wants to avoid a no-lynch, so the smarter play would have been to keep pushing the wagon and basically dare the town to hammer him before the deadline. Your DJ suspicion now really looks manufactured.
FoS: Farside.

Leaving a vote on someone who I wasn't sure how long would require replacement is useless. You think if the mod doesn't find a replacement soon enough leaving the vote on someone with no claim is a good idea?
Voting for someone else I find scummy who is in the game is not useless.

Second it's post like this that bother me about you.
First your complaining about the wagon being too fast and the fact DJ was at L-1 and no one unvoted. Now I unvoted and your giving an FOS for doing so saying how close it is to deadline.
The back and forth is scummy.

Farside's #216-217: What don't you like about Darox's vote on me? You're not explaining it a whole lot more than he's explaining his vote on me.

He didn't add anything to the game. Says he likes CS's reasoning and then later when question claims he had a off read on you. That sounds like fluff reasoning.


@yoshi: Why exactly are you voting for Darox? Why not push the person you find scummiest first? To me your vote is on someone that I haven't really seen you pushing as scummy but as an informative lynch. How is that scum hunting?

unvote:
vote: Yoshi

[farside22]

Finally, you are taking my two arguments completely out of context. There's a difference between ending D1 early and ending it with just a few days to deadline. The former often deprives the town of more information, the latter is necessary to avoid a no-lynch.

DY: first you have been saying for how many days that you don't like the DJ wagon or the lack of unvote?
How many days prior to your complaint on my unvote and vote of you?

You know how many 3 days. That's the time from your last complaint about the DJ wagon and now your post about being suspicious of me for changing my vote to you.

Second no one was going to hammer DJ at that point. He replaced out. If someone hammered I would have been surprised.
I blamed Darox because of his comment to DJ as I felt DJ was scum.

First, I've been pushing an Eijo lynch for, like, the entire day, and nobody bit. The definition of insanity is doing the exact same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Realistically, w/ 96 hours to lynch, and with no wagon on my #1 suspect to speak of, I decided I needed to put my vote where it would make a difference rather than parking it where it wouldn't, and I still don't support a Pig lynch. I'm obviously not going to self-vote, so the other main option was Darox. I'm pretty sure I said didn't like his no-explanation, wagon-hopping vote of me, which is a significantly scummy thing I can attribute to him, as opposed to not a lot that I have on Pig atm.

Finally--if this is scummy to you, how is it different than you unvoting your own #1 scumspect? Why not "push the person you find scummiest first?"

1. Your reasons for find Eijo scummy was weak. You judged a wagon on someone who's alignment you should not know and calling players scum on the wagon.
2. Your acting like we need to lynch today (RL today). A lot can happen in 48 hours. Lets look at your fucking biggest complaint this game as a fucking example of how fast a wagon can form.
3. Your now a hypocrite with your vote on me. You just complain today about my change of vote at a short time and here you are voting for me while complaining about the lack of time to form a wagon on your #1 scum suspect.


FTR: Pig's latest post gives me pause on him as scum. I don't like what DJ did, I don't like how he reacted and pig's post (very well thought out) is a completely contrast to lurking/agreeing DJ.

[farside22]

When did I say something of pig was a scumtell? What doesn't make sense about my pushes?

I was talking about the tell pig pointed in regards to eij out that you agreed with.
I don't understand your case on DJ (already stated and I still don't see it). I don't see the connection you pointed out with DY/Glow

[farside22]

1. Yup
2. I have, however you are tunneling too hard to find out what I mean with this.
3. I also saw nothing good in anyones case on DJ. Yet I am not finding them (except you) for it.

1. makes no sense
2. you better have a good reason when this game ends and explain your shitty response here because right now your response has pissed me off.
3. That's because your scumdar is off, you won't listen to me and frankly I'm tired of your attitude towards me.

@Farside: You and CS are now on the same wagon, and yet you seem to be suspicious of each other. Doesn't that worry you?

I don't think CS is scum. I never said he was scum. I called his read on me and Glow as bad. His attitude pisses me off more then anything.

[farside22]

[quote=eijo]Yeah, I still think there is something off about DY's play, but I could see this mindset coming from town trying to take every chance to poke around[/quote]

Please explain the above. Your post comes off very wishy washy.

[farside22]

Right. I didn't like the wagon or the lack of an unvote, but this is another example of you simplifying my argument for your own ends. I say in my #191 it was the lack of an immediate unvote--it was something that happened in the past, and an unvote at the point in time where you did is a very different matter. You're basically arguing that when a vote gets placed is irrelevant for scumhunting.

Yet you said it how many times? How many times did you comment about the lack of unvote? You never explain (other then fast wagon) why it bothered you.

As for your "he replaced out" point, you're just repeating what you said earlier. I don't care about that. It's the sudden change in reasoning that I think is scummy.

So you would leave your vote on someone who replaced out, without knowing how long it would take to find a replacement? Does that make sense?

1. I judged a wagon on someone who I found to be utterly null to be suspicious. Regardless of a wagoned player's alignment, it's suspicious--if the player is town, scum have a good opportunistic shot at a quick D1 w/ a mislynch. If the player is scum, their buddy bussing them is a possibility as the buddy knows they'll be right the whole time. You said as much earlier with your own speculation about the wagon and a potential bus.

Now you use this. Why did you never answer my question about DJ? Why did you ignore my question about whether you found him town or scum?
Lets look at the rest of this. You had 2 people (not 1) that you found to be scum on the DJ wagon. That means you did not find DJ scum and your argument now is using something I stated to your advantage.

3. AtE much? And in any case, there's a big difference--nobody wanted to join me on the Eijo wagon, getting him from L-4 to L-0 in four days was not gonna happen. DJ was at L-1. Apples and oranges

There is no AtE. There is nothing but fact in my comment. Again your ignoring the fact that 1 day can change and you gave up.

And YES, other players are scummy for not unvoting, its called being overly opportunistic. Early on D-1, caution isn't such a bad thing.
So nonsensical points are scummy? Explain.

overreaction. No one hammered. Also this is what I mean about going back and forth.

either:

DJ is scum - scum is bussing
DJ is town - both scum are on the wagon, therefore no hammer.

WHICH ONE IS IT? PICK WHICH ONE AND STICK WITH IT.

How about, I'm town, and its unfortunate that you and Farside have basically categorically denied the possibility of players like Eijo or Scott being scummy. It's like you're two of the three "see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil" statues.

You deny a possilbe Anka as scum. You see my issue yet?

@Anka: Ah I did have that backwards. Sorry about that.

I'm not going to disagree with your point on Eijo. I didn't like his point on DY, it was in part that I think they are scum together. One is bussing and the other is distancing.


@Everyone in the game: Whom are you top 2 scum suspects and why?

I feel there a few players that seem to disappear and not scum hunting or commenting about the game. These few players I see as under the radar that is starting to get to me a bit.

[farside22]

I'm confused. He claimed watcher are Darox and CS seriously suggesting he is lying with no counter claim?

Darox: All that arguing that scum wouldn't fake claim and you think now DY is fake claiming?

unvote:

Darox: You have proof he's lying scum or what?

[farside22]

I almost want to vote glow for that prod dodge, nothing to add and I'm too busy bullshit.

I don't think I will get my wish with 12 hours to go and not enough time to put a good case together.

..

thinking



I don't feel like everyone else does about Eij, but I feel more that Darox is town over Eij.

I would vote for Eij over Darox in the end. I'll look more at this when I get home.

[farside22]

I'm confused. He claimed watcher are Darox and CS seriously suggesting he is lying with no counter claim?

Darox: All that arguing that scum wouldn't fake claim and you think now DY is fake claiming?

unvote:

Darox: You have proof he's lying scum or what?

F U C K

Y O U

Nobody fucking dare contemplating a counterclaim, I swear to god. Should lynch farside tomorrow for even contemplating it.

Yes how dare I not want to lynch an unCC'ed PR. I'm so scummy.

You answered my question

vote: Eijo

[farside22]

Darox: I'm really confused by what your saying.

Are you saying that DY agreed with your idea?

unvote:

We have a bit for this discussion and I sure as heck don't feel satisfied with lynching Eijo.

[farside22]

I thought about this. This is my odd thing that is a big strike against DY. He doesn't attack CS or Darox for keeping their vote on him after his claim. He doesn't call them scum for trying to push a PR lynch, which is exactly what I think a PR would do if they were a PR.

I disagree with Darox thought process. Anyone (scum, town or PR) would disagree with you about fake claiming PR's.

Also I think CS will understand when I say that scum tend to be afraid of switching reads. Yoshi didn't attack Darox because he has been calling him town most of this game. However what Darox is suggesting is scummy and should have been attacked.
He wasn't.

vote: DY

[farside22]

I had the same that FLP had when I saw DY flip strongman. IE: seeing friend pick doctor at the begining.
Also I asked DY why he ignored friend and didn't say anything about him.
I also don't see why scum would push on Eijo like that. It seems odd.

Let me think because I have to go to work right now.

[farside22]

I'm back from my V/LA. And I'm confused--Quil, based on the # of watcher votes, I think it has been selected w/ 5 votes--does this mean that cop has been selected too since it was #2 on the VC and we're already done with Day zero? If so, then okay, I'm fine with cop + watcher, but if not, I do want to see what people think of a doc + watcher combo, since I think it's a pretty broken pair, honestly more so than cop + doc or cop + watcher.

Also, *waves hi to everyone I've played with before* (which feels like almost everyone...CS, Scott, Friend, glowball, and even Farside for, like, half a day )

DY suggested doc. This increases my scum read of friend more.
I think scum would suggest this more likely then anything with a Strongman choses as PR.

I am now reasonably confident that that the dj wagon is partly scum driven, and that between eijo and scott, we have at least one scum. Ergo,

I really don't see scum bypassing a town wagon and calling players out on the wagon like this. He talks about eijo and scott.
I agree that scum was probably on this wagon and I don't like that DY continues to ignore Friend and gives him a pass, when Friend basically agreed with me.
I aslo found the question from DY to Eijo was strawman. The answer from Eijo would look scummy no matter what and I don't see scum doing that to a scum mate.


Also noting that if DJ was looking for town cred by not voting DJ and claiming 2 players scum that leans me to believe more likely that FLP is town.



Possible scum suspects:


friend/anka

Friend - chose doctor
Anka: puts glow/DY scum team based on Glow more the DY

farside22: My only suspicion of Yoshi at this point is his connection to Glowball.

This looks to be creating a mislynch.

Pro: The push and case on Eijo. Issues I have is that Friend was on DJ wagon and if DJ is town like I suspect I have to believe at least one scum was on there and he would be my biggest scum read.


Glow

Glow said next to nothing about DY. One post:

OMG I am not saying DY isn't scummy, but SERIOUSLY ConSpiracy you always think you've pinned scum on the smallest things. It's less and less believable and more and more suspicious when you can call me SCUM FOR SURE with farside and now it's unlikely and DY is now SCUM FOR SURE.

I know glow tunnels as town but not to this extent. She didn't even look at DY and there was barely any interaction between them.


I think with Eijo and DY my biggest issue that if scum together why not vote DY? It would give him town points and he could make a case instead of fighting it. The con is that it is against the scum PR the scum team have.
Pro is that Eijo has had many things I found where i agreed with and I don't know if scum would put them self in a corner like this.
Plus DY's push on him.....I'm thinking about this as well.

In short I'm leaning on Ank or Pat as the last remaining scum member. I want to check into something before I place my vote.

[farside22]

Okay so I looked a bit at DY and his meta and it makes me more comfortable with Eijo leaning town. I noticed that DY does interact a bit with his scum team member. He doesn't attack his scum buddy from what I see as scum. I'm going with either Anka or Patback as the last scum team member.
I'm leaning more on Anka do to the doctor comment and they both wanting doctor and because DY kept ignoring my questions about him and saying very little about him.

vote: Anka

[farside22]

Eijolend. It is big boys talking now.
Others, like you, need to follow them.
So threaten Ankamius more.
Packbat will come tomorrow.

You mean if Anka is town then Packbat tomorrow?

Also Darox is obv town here. Sorry I know scum buss but if there was a plan to out a PR there is no way in hell Darox would have pushed the wagon on DY without waiting for a counter claim.

[farside22]

Eijolend. It is big boys talking now.
Others, like you, need to follow them.
So threaten Ankamius more.
Packbat will come tomorrow.

You mean if Anka is town then Packbat tomorrow?

Also Darox is obv town here. Sorry I know scum buss but if there was a plan to out a PR there is no way in hell Darox would have pushed the wagon on DY without waiting for a counter claim.

Yep, we have plenty of mislynches left so...

If I said my gut was pulling more towards glow/pat then anka would you kill me?

Let me explain my issues. Anka is calling out people he find town and could easily push a bad lynch. He's stated more of his own views with his own reasoning then glow/Pat has done and finally everything I read from Anka sounds more sincere.
Pat comes in uses what you said about me and wrapped it up and called it a case. He added nothing to this game and I feel like Glow as I said knows how to scum hunt even when she is emotional. Plus her early reaction to be called out looked and felt like an over reaction.

unvote:
vote: Packbat

[farside22]

All I know about glowball is that she self-hammered in the last game I was in with her.

As for the content I'm not providing, most of my case is gut reads based on the way players have been posting and I haven't gone back to find the specific posts that gave these reads to me. I think the logic about scum not wanting to bus is pretty strong, on reflection:

UNVOTE: Eijolend

but I'm still dithering about farside22.

There is gut and then there is using what other people stated to make a case. You did the former.

[farside22]

First off alot of that case is this is not genuine or that doesn't look genuine with no reasoning.

second

#2 scumread in 119, and even though her Yosh-case is as good or better than her Don-case,

If you read the post 119 all I said about Yoshi was gut in that post. There was no case on Yoshi in the post you reference.

Finally my comment at the end of day 1 was in regards to CS. We had a discussion not too long about about scum tells and I mentioned him the biggest scum tell is when someone doesn't change their reasons on players even when a player is acting scummy. IE: Scum are scared to switch their reads.

In conclusion: PackBat case has nothing. It's all based on trying to say something doesn't sound genuine and there is no proof of that. The rest of his case is me pushing DJ. Ummm yeah I did. I thought he was scum. How dare I push for something I believed at the time. If DJ was scum would we even be having this discussion.....wait do you know for fact Pack that DJ is town for some reason and knew not to push at his wagon? Oh that's right Glow didn't say shit about the wagon.
Scum staying off a wagon that flips town is also classic tell. I had my reason's why I thought DJ was scum. I stated them and defended them because it was my belief at the time.

Also I always make notes in games. I don't keep information on the computer because doesn't help and making notes reminds me if something happens to remind myself later if it means anything.

[farside22]

Oh wait I missed a few things Pack said here that I should address:

Not even two full carriage returns after saying that glowball going off the deep end makes her suspicious, farside22 says that Friend calling the exact same thing suspicious ... makes her suspicious.

First lets see what Friend actually said, compared to what I stated:

No Conspiracy let's do me today and then you tomorrow after I flip town since you are so confident.

This is oddly frazzled for such early-game play. I don't know why a townie would be so aggressive.

VOTE: glowball

A small part feels like Glow is overreacting early a bit much on 2 votes.

How is this the same things? I'm saying she is overreacting early and it feels off. He is talking more about the aggression (which is what I asked him about after his comment).


As for this:

And observe: she wishy-washies it. It doesn't look like a townie vote at all.

First I'm scummy for finding someone town but I'm wishy washy because I'm unsure about another player?
So basically I can't call a player town and I can't be unsure about another player without looking scummy.

Can anyone say strawman?

[farside22]

It's not in #119 - I'm talking about #129/30 and #134. Your case on DonJosh, as far as I could tell, dated back to #50 (where you said you didn't like him asking for a Roleblocker) and #55 (where you added "aggressive is a nulltell" to that).

post 129/130 is me talking to DY and comments. That is not a case.
134 at the end I still say DJ is scummy but I'm leaning DY as scum, still not a case there.

When someone is actively lurking I look at that as scummy. Typically I have seen scum more often lurk then town.

What does 55 have to do with DY?

The only way in which glowball was overreacting was with aggression. Her odd frazzledness was expressed by aggression. Your only objection to calling glowball "aggressive" is the word. You. Are. Talking. About. The. Same. Behavior.[/quote'

I didn't see it that way. Obviously.

Wh...what does that have to do with anything? You said, "I'm still not sure what to think about Glow enough to switch my vote just yet." This makes sense ... in a universe where you are considering a glowball vote and haven't quite made up your mind. Not in a universe where your vote is already on glowball and you're pressuring her to get info.

Your first comment is about me calling Scott town and saying that my reasoning looks false, even with all my explanation. Second is that if I don't know how to feel about someone leaving a vote is not a scum tell and it's not wishy washy. It means I don't know what to make of Glow's reaction and it's worth keeping my vote on her at that time.
Basically your saying my town read is fake and not making reading a player is scummy early. It's called strawman. There is no read I could make that you would not paint as being scummy.

I total missed the in Pack's case where he cherry picks things and skews it as scummy.

For example he says me asking Darox about his read is defending DY, but if you read the game in full anyone who gave me half ass comments I asked where they were getting the information and how they came to the conclusion. It's not defending shit, it's trying to understand where the fuck the person is coming from.

[farside22]

I forgot to seperate a comment from Pack and my response.

Pack wrote:The only way in which glowball was overreacting was with aggression. Her odd frazzledness was expressed by aggression. Your only objection to calling glowball "aggressive" is the word. You. Are. Talking. About. The. Same. Behavior.

I didn't see it that way. Obviously.

[farside22]

Lets put thing in RL day terms.

I voted for DJ because of his hop on the BW vote. 2 days later I called him out for actively lurking (which he was lurking). 3 days later he replaced out and I voted for DY who was my second scum suspect.

I could have kept my vote on DJ and no one would have given a shit. I didn't because it was a waste of a vote at that time.

Next up is my town call on Scott. I explained that the best I can. You can say it looks fake I'm saying what I thought. Just because you claim to read it as fake doesn't mean you are right.

My read on Glow was exactly like. I was not sure and cherry picking it out and calling it wishy washy is crap because you ignored other people who were not sure about their reads either. But hey that's okay because your trying to stretch a case against me the best you can since you are scum.

Saying that saying I have a town read early is scummy but not being sure about someone is also scummy if that is not a strawman then what is it?

And why should I believe that?

Because I asked Friend why he believed aggression is a scum tell. That is why.

And finally because I believe with my heart you are cherry picking a case together and I believe you are the last scum at this point.

If

you don't flip scum, then I accept that people can just lynch me tomorrow.

Are you willing to say your case is so strong that you are willing to be lynched tomorrow when I flip town?

[farside22]

A double bind, probably, except that you're omitting the context on both of these. An early town read based on events which are null is scummy, and vocalizing doubts about someone you're currently wagoning is slightly scummy.

They were not null. I explain my reason's for why I found Scott town. It was valid reasoning.
Why is vocalizing doubt on someone I'm unsure of while voting scummy? I do it all the time.

That makes an equal amount of sense under the assumption that you were attempting to paint Friend as scummy, and his use of the term "aggression" gave you an opportunity to use the language of Mafia theory to do so.

It's not assumption. It's what happened in the game.
I asked Friend why aggression was scummy. A conversation took place. There is no assumption in that. It's facts on fucking paper.
You are just twisting it because it suits you to lynch town.

[farside22]

What is the case on my slot, precisely?

Glow never said anything about DY. She sat on a vote for Darox based on crap reasoning. There was very little interaction from DY to Glow (which is called distancing and most scum do). DY didn't attack glow and defend her.
Glow didn't scum hunt. She whined and bitched, that is not how she scum hunts when she is town (yes I have meta).
You are twisting words, taking comments out of context and cherry picking a case.

[farside22]

I don't know if you are deliberately misinterpreting me, but the language I am using is very simple and based in Bayesian reasoning. We have the event (call it X) and we have models of the event (call them A and B). Then you ask two questions: first, how likely are A and B a priori? And second, how likely is X assuming A versus assuming B? That's the sense in which I'm using the word "assumption".

This makes no sense.

Anyone want to interpret what this comment has to do with what I stated?

As for "twisting": you are acting as if Friend's use of the term "aggressive" somehow indicated that he was looking at a completely different thing than you were when you used the term "overreacting". That's the problem, and you refuse to acknowledge that it even might be a problem.

I don't see overreacting = aggressive.

Aggressive is someone that does something against someone and attacking.
A person overreacting is how dare you touch me. I never touched you I pointed to you.

And you have been saying over and over again that I am taking comments out of context and cherry picking - but you can't prove it. Every time you've tried it's been like the drunk driver saying "I didn't drink beer, I drank wine!"

You stated that I was defending Yoshi when I asked Darox about his reasoning when I have asked multiple people to expand their reasoning for their votes:

examples of me asking people to explain themselves:

I know more aggressive townies then scum. Where are you getting the opposite from?

Okay lets go down the list.
How is aggressive scummy? 90% of the players I see play aggressive is town. Why are you voting for glow for that.
How am I faking? What looks fake?

Why is scott scummy?

The fact you took one question I asked to Darox to explain and call it defending is cherry picking. I'm doing it all game, just because DY is scum doesn't mean I'm defending him, I'm asking Darox to explain his reads, just like I asked other people to explain their reads.
No different.

Now lets look at a few other things.
Your saying I was looking for a reason to leave the wagon on DY. However I mention issues with Darox:
here
here

Which means I had reason to vote him and I continued to question him later.

[farside22]

@ Darox, fatlikepig:

What do you think of farside's attacks on Packbat?
They feel incredibly forced to me.

Also, last question. I want you to carry on the plan when I die tonight.

What is forced about it?
Fuck you can vote me. I'll just put that same picture I posted in the vanilla game where you called me scum.
You remember the one with egg on a person's face. Because frankly I'm tired of you and your shit reads on me right about now with NO FUCKING REASON!

Here is Post #31 - glowball's first post after farside22's vote. Read to the bottom of the page. glowball's overreaction was aggressive.

I'm not buying what your selling.
Also if I read this incorrectly and you point was correct, then why did Frind not correct me?

In short what your saying doesn't match up with what happened.

1. Most of those examples are things I already pointed towards as suspicious. The only exception is "far to Darox", which is buddying up to Scott Brosius.

What is suspicious about asking question when people don't expand on their thoughts?
More of your "opinion" is noted.

[farside22]

Also if I read this incorrectly and you point was correct, then why did Frind not correct me?

The question you asked him was

I know more aggressive townies then scum. Where are you getting the opposite from?

and he answered that question at #60. Answering the question posed instead of answering the question that needed asking is a common mistake.

Funny thing about your "interpretation" of that post is that Friend isn't here to clear it. So really it's your "interpretation" versus what happened in the game, how I read it and how I reacted and was stated in the game.

[farside22]

I'm up for the council.

As for Farside's attacks on Lackbat: I'm not sure the cherrypicking accusation is entirely justified, considering that Packbat has been able to address most if the things she's raised. I'm also not buying the aggressiveness =\= overreacting thing, because Glowball's aggressiveness was fairly plain to see. Also, Farside, you mentioned that glowball stayed off the DJ wagon. Considering she went AWOL after she had her fit, I'm not sure you should read too much into that.

That said, I'm still not entirely sure that she is scum. I still feel that there is quite bit of good scumhunting in her posts from yesterday. Moreover, I'm not buying it when Packbat raises something like Fars asking why Scott is scummy and then calling it her defending him / scummy. I don't see in any way how that's a loaded question.

He hasn't addressed why he is calling one post I question Darox read on DY is any different then when I asked others questions about their reads.

Glowball didn't replace out till DY was close to lynch and it was between Darox or DY. She didn't say anything during her game stay in the game and her replacing out is odd. Trust me when I say the one thing about Glow you can count on. Even when she feels her back to the wall or things are not going her way she sticks it out as town. Saying she is not interested in the game is odd. She fights when she's town no matter the game.

[farside22]

Glowball didn't replace out till DY was close to lynch and it was between Darox or DY. She didn't say anything during her game stay in the game and her replacing out is odd. Trust me when I say the one thing about Glow you can count on. Even when she feels her back to the wall or things are not going her way she sticks it out as town. Saying she is not interested in the game is odd. She fights when she's town no matter the game.

Two things:

1. Open 331.

2. Flaking isn't an instantaneous process - players will generally show extended periods of low activity first.

1. Hey thanks for the link to Glow's town game. It shows that she makes multiple cases while calling for their blood with reasons. She doesn't just sit on a vote and use AtE.
Like she did this game.

2. Glow hasn't replaced. I'm commenting it's odd for her to do.

[farside22]

Hey, sorry for my absence - RL is still busy

After the farside/packbat-conversation I'm quite happy where my vote is.

Why?
What about Pack and my points makes you happy with your vote?

[farside22]

Did you mean latter?

No. At the time of the post Pack used the case that CS put together, then said it was gut.

It seems as if you are desperately trying to find points against Packbat.
That's fine with me. There are reasons for, there was no need for that last sentence.

Making points and finding scum.
With your attitude there is a reason for my last line.

Why all the back and forth between me and Pack? Where is your case on Pack and why are you voting him over me?

[farside22]

First: why? And second: why? I have yet to see you offer a compelling reason to vote for me, nor a compelling reason for me to claim.

Threat of death is usually a pretty good stick. A vote without compelling reasons is still a vote.

Just saying.

Let CS answer.

[farside22]

unvote:

I want CS to answer my question and no quick hammer.

[farside22]

Why are you calling glowball town day 1 and suddenly scum (with no relation to DY) day 2?

Originally I felt off about Glow but she started more of her 1 vs 1 and I thought it came from town because scum don't do that. However after looking at DY (after he flipped scum) more and the interaction between them caught my attention.

Why did you switch from tunneling Glow and myself to DY? Are you saying your list and reason's for putting Ank on your scum list is POE?

I'm asking for your case on all 3 of us at this point.

[farside22]

Why are you calling glowball town day 1 and suddenly scum (with no relation to DY) day 2?

Originally I felt off about Glow but she started more of her 1 vs 1 and I thought it came from town because scum don't do that. However after looking at DY (after he flipped scum) more and the interaction between them caught my attention.

Why did you switch from tunneling Glow and myself to DY? Are you saying your list and reason's for putting Ank on your scum list is POE?

I'm asking for your case on all 3 of us at this point.

Loaded question is noted. I didn't tunnel on you two at all and didn't switch my tunneling to DY. If I was tunneling you two I wouldn't have thought about DY being scum. I thought DY posting was a bit off, and the last post before my case on him finalized my read on him. The DY came more across tunneling, but I had a few suspicions for fatlikepig when he posted and I still questioned you throughout the day. (and glow, but he started lurking)
No, Ank still is my top scum read from you three. However, if the original plan goes through (voting block) it would be unwise to lynch him first.

And I am not giving my case on all three of you. If you don't know those by now you aren't paying enough attention.
And the last answer is not my attitude, but a question that isn't thought about.

And?
See my issue is that Packbat stated he saw me as scum because finding DY scummy but only second to DJ. You on the other hand at the start of the day put me and Glow as scum team together. What switch that scum read together to DY.
Why do you think you don't have to give a case on all 3 of us?
Don't you think someone who claims they are going to die should be reasoning for their belief on whom is scum with reasoning?

[farside22]

@FLP: CS is bothering me as he is lining up lynches without explain his reads.
He also has not comment about Pack's case about me, which mostly about having DY as my second suspect. I find it a bit discerning that (1) he is lining up lynches without making a case and (2) He refuses to make his own cases known.

If you feel like lynching me above Pack for my concern, knock yourself out but I want people to be aware that (1) He did not mention DY until tunneling a bit on day 1 with me and glow
(2) he's lined up lynches for the next days without making cases
(3) He's worth looking at and not auto-town.

Also I wonder about DY not attacking CS in the back of my head. I mean if you look at CS his only issue was my read on Scott which I explained as best I can and he still has me on a scum list with no reason's he's stated after that puts me as scum.
Glow: again no case after the initial push.

I feel like CS scum would use his weak push day 1 and just mislynch after mislynch. He's worth looking at if PackBat is town. And I know I'm town.

[farside22]

I think rereading CS the only thing that I would say I can't see scum doing is not having a watcher claim if it was planed. I think CS's saying to hammer DY without waiting for the claim is the only thing I can find that is a strong in favor of CS being town.

I think with the way CS is acting if I find out he is scum I don't think I would want to talk to him much after this game with the way he is treated me and his "case" which was mostly just about Scott and nothing else. That's a promise CS.

I'm more comfortable with my vote

vote; packbat

Because I can't really see scum doing that to their partner.

[farside22]

hmmm

unvote:

I feel like I'm going to go crazy this game. I need to look at anka again before I say I'm comfortable with lynching someone.

[farside22]

Things I noted about Anka

farside22: My only suspicion of Yoshi at this point is his connection to Glowball.

The 2 reasons I am voting DJ over Glowball is because:

1. DJ already has a wagon going, and needs pressure since he appears to have flaked from the game
2. The fact that Glowball's actions might be attributed to meta is making me hesitate to vote her, something DonJosh's actions can't be explained by.

This bothers me in the seting up mislynches sort of way.
I also don't like the reason's he's is keeping his vote on DJ.

post 225
He has Darox as scum first, Eijo, Darth then Glow.
What is contradictory is that his previous post was that his scum read on DY was because of Glow, so why is DY over Glow on this list?

Says he would vote Darox or Eijo and avoids talking about DY at the end of the day.

Can someone make a list of all the points made against me specifically? A lot of what I see is my predecessor's actions.

My only scumreads at this point are Eijoland and Darox. I'm comfortable with the rest as town.

Still the same scum reads as before. I wonder why he dropped Glow after all the talk about the connection between DY and Glow.

All I really said there was that CS's case put DY on my scumdar, but not to the point of Darox and Eijoland simply because it's meta that I didn't personally know enough about to make it conclusive.

This isn't true. Anka came in with a connection of DY and Glow.

I'll look closer at the content at a later point, but I can see farside22 being scum more than before; some of her cases don't mesh right. Her response to ConSpiracy saying she's scummy doesn't sound entirely protown either.

Oh look waffling and after saying at least 2 time (once day 1 and once day 2) about a town read, suddenly hey look let me go here possibly.

I still don't like Eijoland and fatlikepig is back to being a scumread.

Whe did Eijo stop being a scum read and why a scum read on FLP?


Part of my read on Anka is his post about DY without making a case on him. He stays off the wagon and pushes either Eijo or Darox over DY and still finds both scummy without looking at DY. His post about finding me town and then suddenly i look scummy seems off and looking to jump on an opportunistic wagon.
Then the unexplained scum read on FLP just looks bad. As in I have no reason but making a statement. He's also gone a bit under the radar with the arguing, but so has Eijo.

[farside22]

You're stating it in a way that you might be persuaded to go, but you're not quite sure, but you want to keep the option open in case it becomes the best play.

Where are you getting this from?

I stick by that thought though. I think your case on Darox is weak and it looks like scum trying to push a case on a "townie" in order to earn towncred. It's deliberately weak so that it'll never actually go through.

What?
I never heard of anyone getting towncred for mislynching someone.

Crap - DonJosh/fatlikepig and DarthYoshi makes a lot of sense. DY put his random vote on DonJosh, unvoted, and then started attacking the DJ wagon. Against that fatlikepig started with a DY case fairly early, but on the gripping hand DY was a major wagon at the time and he didn't vote until 265 - and

unvoted

at 277 to join Ankamius on the Eijolend wagon. That's scumread to "null"read in twelve posts, including exactly one substantive post from DarthYoshi, and before any claim.

...

UNVOTE: Ankamius

VOTE: fatlikepig

I was thinking about this but I'm don't know if scum would bus or if DY is a person who would be obvious or would try to look town by not being on a town wagon.
It's more WIFOM and trying to see in the head of DY.

[farside22]

fatlikepig was talking about DarthYoshi, not Darox. Paragraph doesn't make sense otherwise.

Oops, reading comp.

Farside why are you so scummy?

I'm not scummy. Your just lazy.

[farside22]

@CS: You realize most of your push on me and calling me scum was based on my town read on Scott. I don't like the way you cherry pick parts of what I have done as scum and when I show I do it as town you ignore it.
I also don't like how you used the fact that Scott was a cop as another "meta" call on me when you know I have been wrong more often then right as scum when looking for PR's.
Your case on me is shallow and now your vote is OMGUS.

I should not have to ask for a case from you about Glow/Pack or myself or Anak.

The only case you pushed for the hardest and the longest was DY and part of me things your bussed your scum buddy for town credit and looking to mislynch for the win.
The only point in your favor is pushing for DY's lynch with his fake claim.

That is it.

It's enough that when I flip town and I'm lynched people need to relook at you and your "cases" and what you didn't say this game.

Like my meta as town to be more of a bitch. Like I'm more active as town then scum. All of this you ignored and chose not to say and frankly that above all else tells me your just looking to mislynch at this point.

By the way post 137 and 173 IS STILL AFTER YOU TRIED TO PUSH GLOW OR MYSELF AS SCUM AND STILL SEEING IT GO NO WHERE.
And I mentioned DY and questioned him more then you. You think I did that to my scum buddy? When you know my meta so well I would have voted his ass long time ago like American Dad.

If your calling a case Then that is minimal.


And this one you linked is not even a case.

I see you floating by while people argue. I think people should look at you and question you.

vote: CS

I looked at CS and I was thinking why would scum push their scum buddy and not wait for a claim. It is the only thing I questioned about CS.
The rest is CS sitting on the same points and not budging from weak ass reasoning. His cherry picking scum tells from me increased my scum read on him because he avoids talking about anything but my town read on Scott. Then he pushes for Pack/Glow based on his early pairing of us that was never a case.
Finally he's doing minimal in this game. His biggest case was on DY and it's easy to push and make a case when you know the person is scum.
I think he is buddying up to Darox and FLP. And is lining up mislynches.Most of which is PoE. That's not town. That's scum faking.

[farside22]

Self-meta, no OMGUS vote.

Your cherry picking meta on me and you I can't defend myself against my so called meta.
Here lets have everyone decide who has a more accurate meta then since you refuse to post links:

Here is a link to a game I was scum. This was most recent game.
mini1147

This game was American Dad I was scum here. I had to have help look for farsiracy that is me and CS

American Dad

I don't have any other more recent games I have more older games for anyone that ask for more meta from me as scum.

Now as town. This was Dexter game. Around the same time as AD above. I had to have help there as well and was town

Dexter

This was all me in a more recent town game

Flash Mafia

After this game I stopped trying to be so paranoid

No mention of that I have to fight through a cop a watcher and 5 VT's after bussing so hard. Nice avoidance and this only confirms that you are ignoring the things that are making me obv. town.

You didn't do the math correctly

Your list has 3 players to mislynch.
There is 6 people left in this game. 1 mafia and 5 town.

mislynch today
Night is 4 vs 1
Day 3 after killing a player
3 vs 1
mislynch again based on your list you win.
All it takes is 2 mislynches and you have 3 people on your list.


Lets look at that glow case

First again.

Vote: glowball

His one post confirms him as scum already.
His buddy is either Scott or Eijolend.

You know what Glow's first post was:

As much as I hate to go along with ideas the whole Cop/Watcher thing is actually the best choice. I would caution anyone who does receive the cop claim to OBVIOUSLY not hold too much stalk in ANY innocent result. We are looking for GUILTY and that really is the only result that matters, in this set up innocents dont matter and the cop cannot and will not be used to confirm town. I am really ready to get this started.


VOTE: Cop
VOTE: Watcher

Tell me how this is buddying Scott and Eij.

Two biggest scum-reads: Farside/Glowball. Their interaction is farside-scumbuddy interaction. That's it. Reason enough for me to say that.

not a case

I just find it really ridiculous that Conspiracy thinks he found both scum on Page 2.

Anyway, I pushed my lynch over Conspiracy's because there is a SLIGHT chance that he is town but hopefully when I flip town people will stop listening to him and scumhunt on their own because he's obviously terribad this game.

I do agree with DonJosh being scummy because of his vote, but he's not really doing much else.

Lawl, scumslip.
So you'd rather lynch someone you should know (as town) is town than someone you think has a slight chance to be town?
That makes no sense at all.

And since every body fails to see farside is scum, let's make your wagon bigger then.

Vote: glowball

Especially after your last post.

DJ's posts are meh. glow and fars are so much scummier. And look at how easy his wagon is built up, the only one who is doing something on the wagon is farside, someone who is obv scum.

@ Friend

, I still need an answer.

She's pushing her own lynch because at that point she thinks you have a

slight

chance at being town. How the heck is that scummy?

For the questions:
DY - no. 1
glowball - no. 2
farside - no. 3 - however only push-worthy after one of you two flips scum.

So no, the glowball-farside scum-team seems more unlikely now.

No reasoning

So? I pushed him harder than you. Are we doing a game of "who did more to DY" that still doesn't make up for the fact that your vote was on and of and on and of on the most important scum and I kept on pushing him. And lawl, self-meta again.

Scum don't bus, since when? I made a point that you completely skimmed over that you didn't make a case on DY till you saw your weak ass cases against glow and myself didn't go anywhere. I love how you are acting like you were not pushing Glow and me at the start and act like you were pushing DY since the start.
By the way self-meta is not a scum tell. It's null and I provided links to those who want to see for themselves my scum and town games instead of having you cherry pick 2 things I did in a game as scum that doesn't not talk about the full scope of my scum game.

Fixed tags. -- Quilford

[farside22]

Mod: Please fix the above post

[farside22]

CS, why is scumhunting necessarily a scumtell?

CS is still town to me. Bussing scum so hard D1 still doesn't make sense in my head, and I can follow most of his case. My townread on Farside is subsiding, mainly because these quotes bug me:

CS wrote:
For the questions:
DY - no. 1
glowball - no. 2
farside - no. 3 - however only push-worthy after one of you two flips scum.

So no, the glowball-farside scum-team seems more unlikely now.

Two biggest scum-reads: Farside/Glowball. Their interaction is farside-scumbuddy interaction. That's it. Reason enough for me to say that.

not a case

Don't like these quotes at all. They take CS completely out of context, since he states his case in both these instances, yet she hasn't included them. Reeks of misrep at the moment.

Also disliking Packbat's vote on me more and more now. Reasoning seems very weak (since he hasn't pursued them further since I addressed them) and seems very opportunistic to me. Don't want to put fars at L-1 yet, so:

Vote: Packbat

Where is his case FLP? Please post a quote I missed where he stated a full case on Patback/Glow.

[farside22]

By the way 2 of the quotes you didn't like from me FLP come from

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p3423003

The only think I cut out if you want to call it a case against glow was her desire to lynch herself first (which is bad and not scummy)

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p3434746

This is mostly about DY.

I have yet to see CS form a case with reasoning why Glow as scummy and at the end of the day his number 2 scum read. I think he should answer.

[farside22]

So, with the first quote, I don't see how there's no reasoning behind saying that his glow/fars case seems less likely if, in the same post, he gives reasons why DY has become his top scumread. I think that's a logical conclusion to make if someone becomes your top scumread, that a previous pairing becomes somewhat less likely.

CS's case on you and Glowball was sprinkled throughout his posts up until the second post.

Stuff about you contradicting yourself,

glowball making pushes on people that didn't make sense, etc. I'm a bit short on time now, but I think his case is definitely there.

What contradiction?

[farside22]

Why is Conspiracy scummy farside?

He's more town than me, and that's saying something.
I mean daaaaaamn Gina, CS so townie.

He has not made a case on anyone today in full.
He is following weak tells that no one agreed with yesterday and lining up lynches.
He cherry picked a few things that he knows from me as scum instead of giving a full view of how I player as town and scum.

Tell me what about him you find town.

[farside22]

None of that sways me.

On the other hand, Cop + Watcher and Darth lynch make him super town.

SO FAKE!!!

Oh wait I'm using his way of "scum hunting"

Yes he suggested cop + watcher first. That doesn't = town. If one post makes a person town you need serious help
Darth was being pushed by me first. He just used meta and bused his scum buddy.

It's easy for scum to ride those 2 points you made for victory while making no case or points and riding the side lines.

Tell me I'm wrong.

[farside22]

He didn't jump off and ask for counterclaims.

Like I said that was the only thing I question, but it's not enough to outweigh his laziness, his lack of cases and pushing lynches based on weak cases.

Listen you can mislynch me but if he stays alive in lylo he's scum 100%

Also looking at the numbers we can have a mislynch today,

4 vs 1 for night

3 vs 1 for day 3. Town needs to do a no lynch on day 3 unless the watcher in the game gains results.

Day 4 will be 2 for 1 then.

[farside22]

Farside22, ConSpiracy isn't going to get lynched today. You should vote for someone else.

Well I would not vote for FLP. I do not see the case against him.

[farside22]

I did. We are with 7 players now.
And wonderful ignoring of the cop and watcher, highly diminishing the odds for scum to win after the scum PR being lynched day 1.

Cops dead. I'm starting the math at this point, in the game.

Äre you serious with this question?
If Glowball's town, she would've gotten a town pm. Therefore she is conf. town in her eyes and I was "slight chance to be town". She'd rather lynch the conf town of the two, which makes no sense as town.
And I love you noticing it now, but not back then.

How does it make sense as scum? Your answer is what again?

Dumb players and with Glow's constant AtE it's null tell.

ol misrep. Never said he was buddying Scott or Eij.

The bold says the below says the opposite.

In post 23, ConSpiracy wrote:First again.
Vote: glowball
His one post confirms him as scum already.

His buddy is either Scott or Eijolend

.

WHAT IS YOUR CASE AGAINST ME CS! DO YOU HAVE ONE BECAUSE SAYING IGNORE IS NOT A CASE!

[farside22]

By the way CS this was your second meta comment about me.

[quote="In post 341,
Also, the night kill. It's odd. Apparently someone had a huge PR-tell on Scott, which would be something for farside. However, Ankamius comes first.[/quote]

[farside22]

CS, I said lol in response to that because you seem to think it's scummy for me to vote a scumread instead of another scumread which was weaker.

That was the same case that PackBat stated about me.

I feel like pinching my nose and slamming my head on the desk 5 times over.

[farside22]

Hahahah I just realized that CS was saying glows buddy was either Eijo or Scott in that post.....so what was the case that CS has against Glow/Pat because I sure as shit didn't see it.


If CS keeps refusing to make a case he should be lynched.

[farside22]

@Darox: What about me is scummy?

No really that no case that CS is sitting on is entertaining and all but you......being lazy should have ended 2 days ago.

[farside22]

Wrong way around. My bad. Anyways, if anyone wants the reasons for it:
- Glow wanted to lynch himself over me, which makes even less sense for a PR than for a vanilla
- Farside seriously voted for Eijolend after DY claimed watcher

1) That is not scummy. Explain how it is. Oh wait you can't and haven't
2) He claimed watcher at deadline. No lynch is bad.

Saying that avoids making a case on me. You know that.
Lol WIFOM reason. And lol avoiding why you didn't give me the answer earlier.

your still dodging my question. I believe at this point you do not have an answer.
I gave you an answer you have yet to return back.

At that moment the posts of Scott and Eijolend were the scummiest after Glowball. Since there are only 2 scum, it's his buddy right? You know better farside, you know better.

How was it the scummiest. You can do better then this if you were town. You know you can.

I don't know what's wrong with you, but in my last few posts I have posted enough things to show why you are scum. There is no reason at all why you keep on hammering me to make a case when reading my last posts shows exactly why you are scum.

Still not making a case is noted.

Also you can lynch me but you know I have completely screwed you this game. The town knows tomorrow to do a no lynch and look at you for not making any case on anyone and lining up mislynches.

Touché, you are the most experienced one, every one else would have Nk-ed me or Darox. That was the reason I said that.

BS
This is WIFOM first of all and BS. I would have killed Darox because I saw the fucking soft claim day 1 you missed.
Too bad you have to kill the person that thinks your the most town now!!!

HAHAHAHA SUCK IT SCUM CS!

Lol @ omgus of farside to Darox.

I did not OMGUS Darox.
Now your just making shit up.

Hahahaha your lynch is coming.

@ Fatlikepg, put your vote on farside. You know she is scummier (BTW, anser the question I asked you)
@ Pack, it's either you or farside. You'd rather lynch someone who (has a chance that) isn't town right?

Don't forget the last line on there Pack he's calling you town right now but your still on the list with Anka


GOOD LUCK TOWN.

DON'T FORGET THAT CS HAS NOT MADE A CASE AND IS USING OTHERS TO MAKE CASES FOR HIM!

Pack you can hammer now. I needed to get that out before I am lynched today. Tonight will still happened.
@Darox: I want you to change your sig or make a sig that says:

I fail at being town

when it turns out I'm right about CS.

[farside22]

This were the reasons why I thought the players weren't likely to be watcher. Lrn2read.

Oh so your saying you knew DY was lying. I wonder why....that's right it's because your his scum buddy.

Wait, I don't get what you mean with this. I said why glow is scummy because of it, what do you want more?

Why is something that a player does in almost all her games scummy.
Explain how someone what motive a player has that says lynch me = scum.
Those are what you are not explaining.

The tells weren't strong, but anyways, this was it back then:
- Scott explained something in detail why cop+watcher was best, when two of us said it already. Scum likes to blend in and explaining it was unnecessary.
- For agreeing, but not voting.

Isn't the first part what I said when I explain my Scott town read you kept calling crap?

here

and
here

Yup it sure as shit is


To the second: What?

Town is not going to no lynch. I don't know why you continue to say this.

I already showed the numbers on why no lynch with a mislynch helps the town. Then town has 2 vs 1 and CS has to prey to win

Naah it isn't, you know you were in a tough spot and Scott played like a PR. Which soft-claim did I miss, because Darox is the most obvious watcher at the moment.

So you think I'm a dumb ass that would kill a person then followed my line of logic vs a player that is obvious PR.
You keep reaching there scum.

Farside I can really understand your feeling about CS as I have a strange gut feeling about him too - but on the logic side of things there are some points that just doesn't seem to match with him as scum and I just don't see him getting lynched today.

So lynch me and then what? You going to let him continue to not make a case or anything and then push on weak BS while everyone else argues?
Because that is what is going on.

[farside22]

And can you please change your sig to: "I fail at recognizing obv town" when I will flip town? I bet you don't even want to do it because you are scum.

TROLL

Let me humor you for a bit. I'm so sure your scum right now based on a few slips that I would change my sig to that for 6 months.

[farside22]

And can you please change your sig to: "I fail at recognizing obv town" when I will flip town? I bet you don't even want to do it because you are scum.

By the way a player that thinks another player is scum would not make this statement

TRALALALALALALALALLA

CS is not getting lynched today. Eijoland is not getting lynched today.

.

Why not CS?

[farside22]

Farside is scum for trying to attack one of the dynamic duo and discredit him.
Doesn't need to do the same to me because I'll be dead shortly. (Truefact, if I make it through N3 it's because I'm scum or bulletproof)

"It's the bitch in me that enjoys seeing people get their comeuppance."

I'm so looking forward to proving you wrong. You are going to put a sig up after this game I hope. people need to know not to listen to you in the future.

Not hammering myself. Town doesn't do that and it's considered bad form.

Also not doing self preservation

Also, I won't be here when the deadline comes. I'd still rather Packbat than Fars, but I don't think there's much chance of a wagon switch now. And were sure as hell not no lynching.

Vote: farside22

CS will keep you alive because of this. Remeber that.

Also before I forget.

TOMORROW WILL BE MYLO. DO NO LYNCH AND DO NOT FALL FOR CS'S BULLSHIT
I want to have a look at Packbat tomorrow if Fars flips town.

[farside22]

Also before I forget.

TOMORROW WILL BE MYLO. DO NO LYNCH AND DO NOT FALL FOR CS'S BULLSHIT
I want to have a look at Packbat tomorrow if Fars flips town.

[farside22]

Also before I forget.

TOMORROW WILL BE MYLO. DO NO LYNCH AND DO NOT FALL FOR CS'S BULLSHIT

I want to have a look at Packbat tomorrow if Fars flips town

.

Sorry that last line belong to FLP. Just ignore that last line, but listen to the rest

[farside22]

Ah I missed counted the number of players left in the game.

You can mislynch twice then.

Also someone needs to ask with CS with his "meta" read on me why he didn't mention this game when I flip town today

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=16055

[farside22]

Show those and I retract it. Still this isn't town play.

Did you ever prove your meta reads this game.

Nope
But it will have to be up to Pack to prove it, even though you never proved shit this game.

So?
Second was about Eijolend

You called me scum on this weak shit!
Oh and I"m town.

Darox you will be owing me that sig, since CS is coasting with no case. Your town read is based on scum busing, who knows their scum buddy is lying.

GFO CS.
I'm sure your scum and your trolling me this game was shitty thing for you to do. I didn't deserve it and I hope you lose this for the scum team.

[farside22]

The case against me was horrible. Oh wait there was never a fucking case.
CS: Were you just trying to annoy and piss me off for some reason this game?
Was there any reason you completely ignored every fucking thing I said?

I called Darox watch day 2. I'm shocked he wasn't killed that night. Him being alive helped CS/Darox.

[farside22]

Your meta on one person being good was hard to believe.
Your meta arguments against me were CRAP!
I told you at least 10 fucking times why I read scott town. Then you fucking agree with me.

No your case against me was CRAPTASTIC.