Open 348 - JK9 Game over (Who won?)

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VOTE: Mattman

I think I make a better superhero - [L]-man.

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"Asia" is so generic.

1. --/f/north america
2. GMT -5
3.
4.
5. INTJ

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Three votes on duck, seems everyone has a Nintendo gun.

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Question 1: If I were in that position, of course I would claim. It would be anti-town to do otherwise, especially of I were a power role. Is this a real question? I thought it was a basic concept of mafia.

Question 2: I have played... A few.

My question to the group: why do you play mafia? What do you get out of it? What is your favorite role thus far?

Me, I love mafia for the intrigue and mystery. My favorite role is townie, because I can say or do anything without worry because I am virtually invincible. I play like a bulldog prosecutor - following leads until they dry up.

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Unvote: Mattman

Man this game hasn't really gotten going yet.

So you consider yourself a spectator?

You guys missed my question to the group. I find it to be very useful.

My question to the group: why do you play mafia? What do you get out of it? What is your favorite role thus far?

I approve of this wagon. UNVOTE: VOTE: Apple_Singer

@kondi: What were your reasons for voting AS? Coming out saying it was a pressure vote as an explanation to Mattman's challenge was very weak, considering your vote was the second one. Second vote holds no weight, and applies no pressure, especially after you let the air out of the balloon by saying that was what it was. You just flew up 50pts.

It's a pressure vote, which now has no pressure since it's been revealed as such. And as we just argued about, an L-2 isn't really scummy.

Mattman just did the same thing Apple_Singer did. Discuss.

Mattman pointed out a the same thing that crossed my mind. You joined a wagon with no explanation.
AS pointed out the fact that 3 people voted one person during RVS and that it was dangerous.

How are these two the same? Discussed.

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to all - do you even know what L-1 is? Why would you ask that if it was scummy?

At this stage of the game, if a person reaches L-1 [one vote away from lynch, aka Lynch minus 1] - it is very scummy, and evaluation of who is on the wagon is necessary. It is also necessary for the person to claim, because if a dolt signs on and hammers, we will be at a loss for information. @kondi - this is why it is scummy.

But no on was at L-1, so why is this being discussed?

Kondi - I find your votes very opportunistic. Why

[
I really don't find L-1 scummy at all. Can you explain why it is? And Mattman is the one that said it was L-2,

I just followed him on that.

Here I find you guilty of the same thing as Mattman earlier, with his snide comment about the game not proceeding - which is a lackadaisical attitude toward the game. Why do you feel it is ok to just follow another person's reasoning blindly? Without even re-reading to see the veracity of his statements? And even defending yourself against [L-2, L-1] without checking to see if the votes were even at that stage.

This argument between Mattman and kondi seems to be a farce.

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Hmm... I just realized that there were random facts on the top of the votecounts.
For now, I'm gonna go with duckhunter. He's been wagonning a lot.

VOTE: duckhunter4242

@smallpeoples343: Do the random facts have anything to do with your vote? I'm not good at abstract puzzles and would appreciate any insight...
@duckhunter: Why so hoppy?

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RVS was over when duck got three votes....

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What about Dsquared? I know him personally, can I prod him through Gmail chat?

(All I would say was that he was prodded in JK9)

Leave that to the mod, imo.

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VOTE: Apple

This is where I would place my vote in the interest of moving the game. I agree with Pads' reasoning - while the idea of the first person to squawk at an RVS wagon is new to me - it makes sense. Woe be unto me if I'm finding logic in a scum argument.

Scum would make an observation as Pads noted. It sets them up to make arguments down the road - for or against specific players. They can say "Look! I suspected them day 1!" etc etc.

What does everyone think about this? Please provide input - this game is only solved by talking.

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Initial impressions:

Pads

: First off the early duck wagon. Scum probably would have either pressed the matter or more likely just let it rest, with a comment to the effect of desiring pressure. Seems to be exploring leads as they come about.

smallpeoples343

: General weak Townread. Uneasy about the quick Apple wagon.

apple_singer

: Perhaps Town. The careless votecounting in #24 suggests Town, but can be feigned. Quick-wagoned without justification.

[L]

:

General Townread. Could have quickhammered duck and easily pretended "Oops!" but this is not outside the realm of WIFOM. Persues good leads, asks insightful questions, shows deductive reasoning with Mattman and kondi, though I disagree with the conclusions. Not a fan of the Apple vote, as I don't see sufficient reasons, especially when she already pointed out good reasons against kondi.

Mattman

: Called kondi out on scummy wagoning, could be bussing. Not enough content, too much fluff. That's consistent with what I've seen of him elsewhere, though. Update: Unlikely to be buddies with kondi given kondi's reaction.

duckhunter4242

: Town. That early wagon built up entirely too fast and with entirely too shoddy reasons.

kondi2424

: I dislike the very early "You're Town" @ Jon. Seems contrived. Additionally, the jump onto Apple's wagon also seems calculated, rapidly putting him to L-1 sans reasoning. Retaliated against mattman for presenting a valid point. Mattman and kondi unlikely to be buddies given reaction.

JonWJ007

: Second candidate for scum at this point, primarily because of putting duckhunter to L-2 on the first page of RVS. Careless at very best and unacceptably scummy at worst. Also some subtle rolefishing in #19, suggesting that one should claim at L-1 when he'd just put duck there.

@pine: Thanks for getting people to talk...if only for a bit.

My read on kondi still stands. When I make scumreads, just because I act on one does invalidate the belief that the other is scum.

Why would I have only one suspect at a time?

What is your take on the observation Pads made about an RVS wagon-squawker? You have a problem with the Apple vote, so please expound.

The more I think on it, I find myself doubting it. Frankly, I'm nervous to follow unfamiliar reasoning out of fear that it may be scum-generated. It has much merit though, because of the WIFOM that could possibly be involved.

@kondi: Now that you are L-1,

what are your reads

? You have not offered much input at all regarding the game, nor have you questioned anyone. My stance on you is unchanged - you are not helping town. Or do you not have any input?

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EBWOP: "just because I act on one does

not

invalidate the belief that the other is scum."

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Considering the low activity that we've been having and the fact that lynches give us more info than no-lynches, I think we need to lynch someone.

I sort of disagree - it's always better to lynch with more information on the table. With as little information as we currently have - a lynch, even a random one ["lynch someone"] - will not provide ANY information whatsoever. We'll be at the same square one we're on currently. Well, square one-and-a-half.

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[L], my confusion with the seemingly contradictory suspicion of kondi and vote on Apple is that the vote on Apple was out of a clear blue sky, with nothing leading up to it (and no real explanation for it when it did happen.) On the other hand, you seem to have a strong opinion on kondi.

I'm willing to let this apparent contradiction go because almost everything else that you've done indicates Town, and it's possible you were just shelving kondi in favor of pursuing someone who had at that time received little scrutiny. At this point, however, we're gearing up to lynch kondi, in line with your expressed suspicions. Are you willing to declare intent to hammer?

Let the contradiction go? There is no contradiction. I stated my reason! What are you talking about?

It's as if you are trying to frame me by saying I did not have a reason - 'clear blue sky' says my vote was random... I'll repost what I said.

VOTE: Apple

This is where I would place my vote in the interest of moving the game. I agree with Pads' reasoning - while the idea of the first person to squawk at an RVS wagon is new to me - it makes sense. Woe be unto me if I'm finding logic in a scum argument.

Scum would make an observation as Pads noted. It sets them up to make arguments down the road - for or against specific players. They can say "Look! I suspected them day 1!" etc etc.

What does everyone think about this? Please provide input - this game is only solved by talking.

FOS: Pine

for misrepresenting what I said.

I want kondi to answer my questions. I refuse to lynch and not have more info.

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I believe that doing a no-lynch provides mafia with a free kill.

Of course no lynch does this. But that's not being discussed?

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The mafia should never get a free kill. (Except possibly in MILO)

No one is disputing this.

The point I'm trying to make - is that there is no reason to rush this lynch before we hear from kondi.

Considering the low activity that we've been having and the fact that lynches give us more info than no-lynches, I think we need to lynch someone.

This post just gave me the impression that you're rushing. That's worse than no lynch, imo.

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[L], are you willing to hammer kondi?

I am willing.

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@jonW, what is your stance on kondi?

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What is site flaking? Not showing at all to any of your games?

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Then

Vote: kondi

.

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Replace.

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Hmm L-2 at RVS is kind of suspicious, and also nobody's unvoted...I think that's dangerous.

No, it's not, especially in such a small game, when it only takes a few votes to reach L-2, even at the start of the game. L-1, yes, (usually) scummy. L-2, no.

-[L]'s post 46 is great, but she doesn't explain this bit:

This argument between Mattman and kondi seems to be a farce.

[L], why did you think that? What do you make of it now, with Kondi's flip?

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And I can't say I can personally empathize with Smallpeople's decision to unvote. What's to worry about? No pro-town player hammers in that situation. Unless you're scum on a buddy's wagon? Or you're scum who doesn't want to be blamed for a mislynch? Meh. I suppose there was some confusion as to the vote count, so maybe it was the right thing to do, but I'm having a hard time seeing how a genuinely inquisitive townie unvotes there.

I agree that no pro-town player hammers, but sometimes people do hammer, whether scum, or townies who are bored/dumb/not keeping up with the game or votecount, etc. L-1 isn't something to play around with; as someone (apple, I think) said, it can cause unnecessary claims which can help scum (who may then unvote, and run someone else up to L-1 and ask for a claim. I've seen it happen). Maybe it's not something to 'squawk' about, but it's something to be a it wary of.

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I support a lynch on kondi.

VOTE: kondi

Dude, reasons, especially if you're gonna put him at L-1. Come on.

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Additionally, in reviewing my stream-of-consciousness list of reads, it occurs to me that if we assume my Townreads are accurate, then our two goons are within this set: {kondi, Jon, Mattman} in that order from more to less likely. Obviously, as some of my Townreads are not especially strong, that list is not ironclad and may be subject to alteration given changes in behavior.

I feel like these are the sort of posts that are basically useless D1, when no on has flipped. Start making up scumteams when there's more to go on.

-[L], it seemed to me that what put you from willing to hammer Kondi to actually hammering him was the fact that he was flaking. Was that the case? If so, why did that make a difference? If not, why did you vote him all of a sudden?

Fixed quote tag
- CS

I found their argument on page 2 to be a farce because Mattman first randomly accused kondi of being a scummy wagoner, when he was the third to vote. In hindsight of the lynch, it must have been Mattman’s defense of AS, since AS had three votes out of five after kondi’s vote.

Which makes me suspect AS all over again - as well as Mattman.

Regarding the hammer, I went from wanting to wait and hear what his motivations were - to being upset that he was flaking. The idea that he could be scum and not even paying attention to the game was upsetting. So then I hammered.

And then I felt stupider than heck when he didn’t flip scum like I expected.

Right now I suspect Mattman and AS for the diverted wagon.

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Thinking about not just who seems scummy, but the whole concept of lynching, if we have 8 players and we lynch today, the mafia will likely kill 1, totaling 6. If the lynched was town, we're at Milo.
If we didn't lynch, we could either get a total of 7 or if the mafia don't kill again, we still have 8. If we had 7, we could proceed to move on to either LYLO or MILO. I think getting the chance to basically choose would be better.

Vote: No Lynch

Considering the activity, I think that we're going to go to No Lynch anyways.

I agree. We can't give scum an advantage.

vote: no lynch

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Fancy that, I just checked the page, and you just posted. lol!

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Whut? No we are most certainly not at MyLo.

6:2 now, 5:2 with a mislynch, 4:2 tomorrow if there's a night kill. You fail at math. (PE: You

both

fail at math.)

No, you didn't do the math right. When you count, you don't count just the number of town - you count all.

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Duck, why has skenvoy tripped your scumdar?

skenvoy/jonw - why would you support your own lynch over a no lynch? no one confronted you on this statement, and it comes across as someone who is trying to make me believe you can't be anything other than town?