Open 381 - Day 4

[FuDuzn]

Howdy, just checking in to confirm. I will be back later with hopefully more substance.

[FuDuzn]

As much as hokorippoi seems scum, as I've said, a vote on him just doesn't fit right.

Why not? Every post after every post I read from him was scummier then the previous one.
VOTE: Hok

[FuDuzn]

I am glad you brought up that you wanted to lynch the lurkers, because I have always believed that to be a bad idea. With the relative lack of info that Rocky and Malee provided we would be left with a situation where no valuable info is gained from them being lynched. This is exactly what scum would want.

[FuDuzn]

Either for him or Malee.

I replaced Malee. Hiplop replaced Rocky.

I really don't get why McQueen seems to be defending people so much on Day 1, why do you feel the need to do this? And you have to give me a better reason than 'gut'.

[FuDuzn]

Either for him or Malee.

I replaced Malee. Hiplop replaced Rocky.

I really don't get why McQueen seems to be defending people so much on Day 1, why do you feel the need to do this? And you have to give me a better reason than 'gut'.

I'm not defending him [hoko], I've never said one thing about anybody elses' votes on him, I just said I wouldn't place my own there, because it doesn't fit right with me.

You described a vote on Hok as a 'wrong vote' based on your 'gut', you clearly don't want to see him lynched.....ergo you are defending him.

[FuDuzn]

Oops didn't want to hit submit quite yet.....ahem.

Now, tell me, why are you defending him?

[FuDuzn]

No Hiplop, I have never played with or read his games(though I recognize the name)......curious how this is important. Not in a condescending way, I actually am curious.

I don't see how its town driven, or scum driven for that matter, but the post just strikes me as odd

Vote:mcqueen

Why does an odd post suddenly spark you for a vote? Especially when you said you cannot place it as town or scum driven.

I do agree with Mcqueen that this is an odd post/vote. You are basically putting a vote on someone for null reasons, is this a legitimate vote or a prod vote?

[FuDuzn]

That is seriously a terrible defense of Mcqueen, Hiplop. You are basically saying that no matter what he does, he is not scummy.

Does he act the same way when he is scum?

[FuDuzn]

No need to apologize, but I would like some examples of when he is scum. Does he act the same way?

[FuDuzn]

So Pizza, would you say that Mcqueen is playing in a similar style so far in this game that he had played in the game you guys played together?

[FuDuzn]

Ok. I am the Backup Rolecop. That is why I said I wanted the Mafia Rolecop dead.

What? Why would you so blatantly put yourself out there then? Before this claim I mean.

[FuDuzn]

I was thinking Mcqueen more then Riggs as scum, the way Mcqueen seemed to be defending Hoko throughout the day and then pulled a 180 and vehemently dropped the hammer sent a red flag up. I am kind of surprised that he was night killed, maybe he gave off a tell or something that I missed. Moot point now though, and clearly I was mistaken, and looking at those links to Riggs post does not make him look good.

[FuDuzn]

I do not think GNR is the right choice here, let's find another target.

Who would you think? Like I said I was ready to vote Mcqueen today, but you also cannot argue the case against Riggs. If you think that someone else would be good to discuss then we should hear it.

[FuDuzn]

I'm guessing that the scum kill was blocked by mcqueen and the Vig shot him.

I assumed that the vig would not shoot on Night 1, why would you think that they would?

[FuDuzn]

VOTE: Elmo

vote:GNR

Anyone want to explain anything?

Well the GNR vote I can understand, but I really would like to hear from hiplop on why he is voting Elmo.

[FuDuzn]

I'm actually going to agree with GNR here. I thought hoko was the backup. And was wrong. I don't think GNR would risk himself if he was maf
VOTE: Kass Don't like the somewhat rush for GNR

He might take a risk to save the mafia rolecop from being lynched on Day 1, also Kass is only he second vote on Riggs. I would hardly call that a rush.

[FuDuzn]

I don't think Kass left out the bolded part on purpose, that is a bit of a reach Elmo.

But you do bring up a good point, I disagree with Kondi when he said that the vig killed Mcqueen(I guess I just think it is too stupid of a thing to shoot on Night 1), I think he may have tipped his hand a bit and the mafia picked up on it........reviewing Day 1 interactions with Mcqueen might give us something.

[FuDuzn]

Duzn I wasn't making it look like there was something missing there. It was just to show now we have all the information. And what I was mostly getting at is the 2nd line of that quote. But Unless Kondi was the vig (I don't believe this) I think mafia would have killed mcqueen just because.
Either way thinking about it.
VOTE: Kondi He did seem to not like Mcqueen if I remember.

Problem is alot of people were on Mcqueen's case on Day 1, myself included.

[FuDuzn]

@Riggs

Who do you feel is scum/scummy?

Sorry, missed this
I find both Elmo and Pizza scummy, with elmo seeming more scummy than pizza
I modded a game that was lost in the crash where elmo was scum and his playstyle resembles his playstyle here. That's part of it. Also, his posts have the air of someone trying to look town by doing some work around the thread

Pizza is more of a gut read because I find it very hard to read him

Again with the gut reads, first Mcqueen's gut saying Hoko wasn't scum and now your gut saying Pizza is scummy. And has anyone played games with Elmo where he was town?

[FuDuzn]

Hiplop, are you sure you are not confusing me with someone else? I have only been on MS since October and I am definitely not one of the better and/or more acclaimed posters on here.

And how am I skating by? Since I subbed in I have been one of the more active posters(but yes, not so much the last couple days).

[FuDuzn]

I am more concerned with Hiplop saying that my posts aren't saying much......and then not giving any examples(and off topic, I would like to know what I possibly am nominated for lol).

I do not think GNR is the right choice here, let's find another target.

Speaking of not saying anything, you have had lot's of time to find somebody better the Riggs to lynch........anybody better come to mind?

Also I see Kondi all over the place, except in this game.

I actually had forgotten Kami was in this game.

[FuDuzn]

I am still waiting to hear back from Hiplop, but he appears to not be as active on site as of late from what I can tell.

I also do not understand the wagon on Elmo, not at all. And if we are comparing him to Riggs, then Riggs is much worse.

VOTE: Riggs

[FuDuzn]

UNVOTE:

Why are we voting Kami? Antihero you really are trying to make Kami look bad, especially after he said why he has been somewhat inactive(btw I saw he was being replaced out of other games, so I tend to believe him). Please point out his scum tell.

[FuDuzn]

Your post is irrelevant and dumb, why would I waste my time responding to it?

I soft claimed cop and you vote me for being inactive instead of addressing the soft claim?

Wait what? We already have a vig claim and now you casually remark that you are the cop? Why??

[FuDuzn]

Your post is irrelevant and dumb, why would I waste my time responding to it?

I soft claimed cop and you vote me for being inactive instead of addressing the soft claim?

Wait what? We already have a vig claim and now you casually remark that you are the cop? Why??

FAKE OUTRAGE SENSES TINGLING

I have to admit, thought there was a regular cop in here as well(not sure why, just assumed), going back to his posts(201 to be exact like he said) I see the soft claim.

I would like to see how Antihero can prove he is not the role cop, and why did you think his soft claim was a scum claim?

And hiplop, why did you think he was talking about you(or do you has jokes)?

[FuDuzn]

I would still prefer an Elmo lynch, who ended up voting me after the discussion of my soft cop claim and managed to ignore that while still trying to lynch me.

Thing is, I didn't realize that you soft claimed role cop until after the fact.....same as Elmo. Best I can tell he voted you because he believed Antihero that you soft claimed scum(something I still don't get what he was seeing). I really don't think voting Elmo would be good, and the fact that Antihero was pressuring you for a supposed soft scum claim that shockingly no one saw but him, is kind of telling now with your revelation.

VOTE: Antihero

I don't buy that he saw you soft claimed rolecop, especially since he appeared to be trying to get a lynch on you.

[FuDuzn]

Sorry for realative inactivity, only one game of mine had my limited attention the last couple days(somewhat busy with work). Won't really be around today, tomorrow I should be more active.

I will say that I don't love the Kass wagon, but it does appear he is really mailing it in here. Also is he at L-1 now?

I also don't understand votes on Elmo, maybe I am missing something.

Antihero would be, and is, my vote for the Day.

[FuDuzn]

I don't really see hiplops reaction to your fake hammer(seriously Kondi, not a big fan of those) as overtly scummy, but I have seen him do other scummy things. I will give this thread(or at least Day 2) a good read tomorrow, especially with the revelations of today, and try to give good thoughts about the game.

Again though I will state, still don't get any case on Elmo.

[FuDuzn]

Is Antihero a Jora alt?

Why extactly is Kondi obv town? You were asked the question and gave no reason except ALL CAPS GUYS, HEY I AM MAD! And why are you so shocked that people don't think you are town? When people disagree with you you just fling insults at the expense of giving actual content.

And I am playing in a newbie game currently, happy?

[FuDuzn]

EVERYONE UNVOTE RIGGS. AND NOBODY COUNTERCLAIM IF THIS IS A FAKE CLAIM.

Even he's lying, the real vig will shoot him tonight.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Kamikrazy

Scummy soft-claiming is scummy

.

UNVOTE:

Why are we voting Kami? Antihero you really are trying to make Kami look bad, especially after he said why he has been somewhat inactive(btw I saw he was being replaced out of other games, so I tend to believe him). Please point out his scum tell.

We? You mean me, right? Just trying to make poor Kami look bad.

First off, Kami has been posting in other games and not this one (a quick search of his forum posts will prove that). Selective lurking is a scumtell. But that's not even really the part that bothers me.

Scummy soft-claiming is scummy.

This is. If you don't see it, I can't make you see it. Hint: read parts where he's talking about Riggs.

your reaction to pressure isn't golden, ponyboy.

but you act as if there is DEFINITELY a vig, only way you could know this is if 1. You're the vig, 2. You're scum. #2 is actually quite likely, this is a scumslip.

lynch it with fire.

Click here.
Then click here.
Now read this again.
Seriously, WE'VE BEEN OVER THIS.

THIS IS AN OPEN F'ING GAME. THERE'S 1 VIG, 1 JK, 1 BACK UP ROLECOP ON THE TOWN SIDE.

THE ONLY THING THAT NEEDS TO BY LYNCHED WITH FIRE IS YOU

UNVOTE:
VOTE: hiplop

DON'T THINK YOU'RE OFF THE HOOK, SOFT-CLAIMING SCUM KAMIKRAZY

.

My posting in other games is in games that are just starting and as such don't require as much time to read through and think about. I've been replaced in over half of my games; i'm not selectively lurking. I'm just truly busy.

Why do you automatically assume that my soft-claiming is scummy?

Because you're not the cop, and I can prove it using this thread

.

Seriously, I'm getting votes because I'm the only one that doesn't have his head up his ass?

It doesn't take a Sherlock Holmes to deduce that Kami was soft claiming rolecop. It just takes a basic reading comprehension skills. Here, I'll guide ya'll though it.

Kami's whole "GNR isn't a good lynch target" was the soft claim. It's a soft claim because Kami does not give a single reason for it AND it happened to be near the start of the day, suggesting that Kami wants everyone to believe that he had gained extra information over night (and the only role that does that is.... the rolecop). It's soft, because Kami doesn't just come out and say "hey everyone, I'm the rolecop and I got negative results on GNR last night." Everyone get it now?

If not, please replace out and go back to the newbie queue.

Now, the reason I didn't buy it was Kami's post 207 which suggests that he thought hoko might be a mislynch,

which directly contradicts his cop softclaim

. AND Kami saying that "it was OK to lynch riggs tomorrow" also tipped me up to scummy false softclaiming (here). I still actually kind of don't get why a rolecop with a vig result on someone would say such a thing, but whatever.

CONCLUSION: Turns out, it's probably just a case of Kamikrazy and suboptimal PR play. He shouldn't have made post 207, as

aggressive VTs call BS on power role claims all the time

, and the only thing post 207 ended up doing was make his future breadcrumbing look like scummy softclaiming.

Alright, now reread this post. Everyone on the same page now?

So, you try to pester Kami saying he soft claimed scum and basically make him fully claim role cop.......then cover your ass by saying that VT's call BS on power role claims all the time. How is this possibly a town motivated play?

'Hey guys, I am the only one who saw our role cop soft claim. I think I should call him super scummy so he now has to fully claim role cop.......that has to be a town strategy right? Right??'

[FuDuzn]

wait, did you just say elmo is actively

trying to find scum

and is

being helpful

?

okay then.

Bolded is true. Underlined might not be so much.

Alright, well FuD is just flippantly dismissing my explanation as "covering my ass" so there's nothing much more for me to say on it.

'Hey guys, I am the only one who saw our role cop soft claim. I think I should call him super scummy so he now has to fully claim role cop.......that has to be a town strategy right? Right??'

No, this is misrepresenting it. At the time, I thought the softclaiming was scummy (already been over why), so I called him on it (of course I'm not going to let it slide until the endgame).

You completely backtracked once he fully claimed role cop, it was only then you tried to explain what you did(and tried to cover your ass by explicitly saying that VT's do what you have done all the time). Quite simply you were rolefishing, and it appears that you won.

[FuDuzn]

Oh, please. If I sat and hashed it out before he full claimed, I bet it wouldn't have made a difference to you.

What do you mean by 'sat and hashed it out'?

[FuDuzn]

Maybe I am an idiot but I did not even notice he soft claimed until he actually fully claimed, and then I looked back at his posts and noticed that he did actually pull off a soft role cop claim.

And this is my point, even when I asked you to point out his soft 'scum' claim you refused to give specifics and only said 'look at his posts involving Riggs'. You purposely made it vague because his soft claim WAS NOT SCUMMY(I can use caps to get my point across as well).

[FuDuzn]

No, and I asked why it was scummy when you initially said it was......and you gave me a vague answer.

[FuDuzn]

how was it scummy?

and are you kidding me o_O i've said tons of times I just forgot about that post, I'm ovting him for legit reasons ffs

Uh oh, FuD. hiplop is being vague and not explaining his reasons.

Well next to you he is my top scum read, so you are kind of making my point here.

And oh hey look, lack of content with a side of sarcasm.......tasty.

[FuDuzn]

Ill read this up in a bit.

Are you a slow reader, or have you just not actually read up on this thread?

[FuDuzn]

Voting for Pizza seems kind of lazy, are you being serious with that vote Elmo?

I am starting to come around on Antihero, Kami made the point that scum would have no real reason to point out the soft claim(ie try to get the cop mis lynched) and it doesn't really make sense to do so. And his abrasiveness towards me(and others accusing him) is somewhat how I act out of frustration when being falsely fingered as scum. And also Hiplop(who is voting Anti as well) is pinging my scumdar quite a bit more(feel like I am sheeping briz a bit, but he linked to posts that had me iffy of hiplop in the first place.)

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Hiplop

[FuDuzn]

No it wasnt a serious vote.More of a pressure vote. Seeing what he would do. Which is nothing new from Pizza's standards.

So......why would you then keep your vote on him?

[FuDuzn]

VOTE: Anti-hero for #489

*doubly guards balls*

VOTE: hiplop

PEdit: Dammit hiplop your ninja skills are enough alone to make me lynch you

Who are you voting for Kondi?

And why does it seem like hiplop stopped caring about this game?

[FuDuzn]

Wait, I am scum now? And how possibly would it be me and Anti?

Also, waiting for Riggs to say if he was(presumably) jailed. If he wasn't, why wouldn't he shoot?

[FuDuzn]

Wait, I am scum now? And how possibly would it be me and Anti?

Also, waiting for Riggs to say if he was(presumably) jailed. If he wasn't, why wouldn't he shoot?

Kami's flip pretty much proves Riggs as town.

I am not implying that he isn't town, just want to hear if he was in fact jailed......and if not, why the *bleep* not shoot.

[FuDuzn]

Actually, the only teams I could see that are smart enough to realize this involve FuDuzn or Anti... or MAYBE briz. Hmm.

UNVOTE:

Ha, you give me too much credit.

It does make sense though, this is one of those times when it is not good to tell the PR's what to do, because you are also telling scum what do as well. And as was just said, why prevent Pizza from dying if he was town?
VOTE: Pizza

[FuDuzn]

So you are saying it was in fact Riggs who was roleblocked? OK that may be, but how does that lead you to a vote on me?

Also what would that matter? If he said he was going to shoot Pizza, knowing Pizza was scum, they would jail Pizza. And if they play it extra safe they would jail Riggs so both of the scum are safe. Either way scum knew they had to protect Pizza.

[FuDuzn]

So you are saying it was in fact Riggs who was roleblocked? OK that may be, but how does that lead you to a vote on me?

Also what would that matter?

If he said he was going to shoot Pizza, knowing Pizza was scum, they would jail Pizza.

And if they play it extra safe they would jail Riggs so both of the scum are safe. Either way scum knew they had to protect Pizza.

This is not true.
So Ill compromise if you want to lynch Pizza then

It 'may' not be true, but taking the chance that he shoots someone other then the other scum also 'may' not be a terrible strategy and worth the chance.

[FuDuzn]

@FuDuzn #543: Could you explain this logic more?

I just feel that the ultimate goal was to protect Pizza, whether it was jail Pizza or Riggs this was the goal. And I feel that whoever the scum mate is, they were confident that if Riggs didn't shoot Pizza they wouldn't shoot the scum mate. I think it was a calculated risk that was worth it for them.

[FuDuzn]

Kondi, since you have played games with kass......how often has he been scum?

I have to say, I don't really like Elmo's play today. I am leaning town for him, but he seems almost like he is stalling here toDay.

[FuDuzn]

Well I guess I wanted to know if his playstyle changes from town to scum.

[FuDuzn]

Well Pizza is at the top of my list, Kass I have been starting to think of just a playstyle thing(hence why I ask if this is indeed the case), Anti seems to be totally different today and less angry today(though I guess that is because there isn't a wagon on him, not sure how to take that), Elmo I thought was solid town but as I said his play toDay has got me thinking, and to be honest not sure why you are solid town Kondi(I think you are null more then anything).

I guess Pizza is my only solid read right now, and honestly I still don't like you saying that Anti and myself are the same alignment. If pizza wasn't around he is the one I would support the most, I don't like to abandon my reads since I usually was on to something to begin with. Again, I know you get all pissy when someone asks, but why exactly are Anti and myself aligned together?

[FuDuzn]

/prod recieved, sorry
I like the Pizza wagon a lot - won't vote for him yet because he's at L-1 and all that.
Especially after going back and reading the first sentence of this post: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p3929342, and also the hypocrisy regarding Pizzadude's case on Kassadin.
However, Pizzadudes is not scum with Kass.
Although Kassadin would be worth a vig.

PoE:
Kondi and Elmo are town
FuDuzn is probably town
GNR is town

I'm going to make a prediction here: the scumteam is Anti, hoko and Pizza.

hokorippoi - 7 (brizingre1, Elmo TeH AzN, Kassadin, FuDuzn, hiplop, Kamikrazy, mcqueen) Lynch count reached.
mcqueen - 2 (kondi2424, Guy_Named_Riggs) L-5
Kondi2424 - 1 (Pizzadudes7) L-6
hiplop - 1 (hokorippoi) L-6
Guy_Named_Riggs - 1 (Antihero) L-6

Briz, I don't get something here. You say you like the Pizza wagon but don't want to drop the hammer just yet(ok fair enough), then say that Kass is not scum with Pizza, yet then say that Kass would be a good target for the vig. If you don't think he is scum, then why do you want the vig to possibly take him out?

[FuDuzn]

We don't have a vig ability anymore, people. Making vig suggestions is useless.

How so? Last I checked, I'm still here

I was wondering why he said this as well.

[FuDuzn]

Calm down Pizza, I was reffering to Briz saying he wants the vig to take out Kass......even though Briz said he didn't think Kass is scum.

And Briz, you still didn't answer why you want the vig to take out someone who you feel isn't scum(or are we having a semantics argument here?).

[FuDuzn]

I really don't like this Pizza and Kondi back and forth with Vote counts. You could pretty much make a case for anyone being scum using that.......especially when only using Day 1 vote counts.

What needs to happen is Briz and Pizza need to commit and actually make a vote here, and I am not sure why Briz hasn't laid one down.

[FuDuzn]

So you're saying you don't like VCA, FuZudn?

It can be a decent tool, but there is a lot open to interpretation in a VC IMO. In that you really can spin it in all sorts of ways, depending on the agenda you are pushing.

Also, Why does Briz get town points for staying on Hoko? Start bussing your teammates early and if the tide is going that way then no point in jumping off on Day 1.

[FuDuzn]

Pizza seems like he is just stalling now, though I guess why expect him to be active now.

[FuDuzn]

Ya I am on my phone at work, I figured Riggs was a goner.......but why shoot Briz? That seemed like an odd choice.

[FuDuzn]

Antihero? Kass? I would think they would at least pop there heads in here, would like to hear some thoughts.

[FuDuzn]

Imma say on gut Fu and Anti.

Interesting, I would say you and Anti.

[FuDuzn]

I still just don't why you still believe Anti and and I the same alignment......I can't shake it that I think he is scum.

[FuDuzn]

Kass active? Good luck with that.

Fair enough Elmo, I am more certain of him then you anyways.

VOTE: Antihero

[FuDuzn]

Hi5 Kondi. Well played my friend.

[FuDuzn]

Told you I get get the Anti mislynch lol.

Did not expect it to go down as it did though.

[FuDuzn]

My favorite part of the QT was how impatient Kondi got towards the end of the Nights. He really wanted the new Day to start right away lol.

[FuDuzn]

Well both Riggs and Kami claimed pretty early, and it seemed fairly obvious that Mcqueen soft claimed as well(though I did think he claimed role cop not jk). The biggest play was using the jk'ing and Riggs against each other, and most of the planning was done by Kondi so I just tried to use my prob town status to help things along.

Also, still never got why I was prob town......but I won't argue it lol.