Open 393: White Flag - Day 5

[Blonde Doctor]

Oh, er, sorry...I just recently started playing again and apparently I didn't have my account set to receive PMs or something.
/confirm?

Anyway...

Shh, Hoopla. You probably shouldn't be voting me. If they lynch you, it'll be obvious I'm your partner and then where would we be?

But seriously, can we not lynch Hoopla, please? Both of the times I've played with her, I ended up lynching her on Day 1 for silly reasons, and I'd like to play with her properly for at least a Day. If she's scum, she has buddies.

Also, I am disappointed that nobody took my brownies. At least [REDACTED]'s cookies are good. I can live with [REDACTED]'s cookies.

A couple things...
1. What reasons do you feel are "sillly"?
2. If she's scum, she's scum and should be lynched. Period.

Vote: Hoopla

[Blonde Doctor]

I agree with whoever said that Equinox's 45 doesn't feel right. It feels like scum trying to be town, but doesn't come across as the natural thing for town to say.

Blonde:

Is Hoopla scum?

Yes.

Equinox did not react to my vote the way I thought she would have if she was town.

I am willing to lynch either of them today.

[Blonde Doctor]

@ Blonde: explain Hoopla scum. I want to hear it from you.

It is not that I thought Hoopla was scum. I thought Equinox had a funny reaction to her, and now I think they have formed a scummy connection.

Equinox makes a joke about being scum with Hoopla, and then does not explain what reasons she disagrees with when people call Hoopla scummy. I find that the two of them are interacting in a suspicious way. I think Equinox is trying to take attention away from Hoopla, and Hoopla is distancing.

I kept my vote on Hoopla because she had the bigger wagon, but it did not matter to me. As I said, I am fine with either lynch.

[Blonde Doctor]

Blonde:

Explain your contradiction.

There is no contradiction? When I voted for Hoopla, it was because of Equinox. When Equinox responded, it made me think that they have associated themselves with each other in a scummy way, which made Hoopla scum as well.

Blonde Doctor,
Please explain to me how you set your account to not receive PMs.

Oops. I did not mean to overlook this. What I meant was that I didn't have my account set up to receive emails notifying me of PMs so that I would know when the game started. It was my way of apologizing for my late entrance to the game.

It is not that I thought Hoopla was scum. I thought Equinox had a funny reaction to her, and now I think they have formed a scummy connection.

Equinox makes a joke about being scum with Hoopla, and then does not explain what reasons she disagrees with when people call Hoopla scummy. I find that the two of them are interacting in a suspicious way. I think Equinox is trying to take attention away from Hoopla, and Hoopla is distancing.

What reasons were there to disagree with? As I recall, the votes that piled on were for... Hoopla being good scum. While I'm all for hearty bandwagon to end the RVS, I didn't like the combination of the speed of the wagon and PranaDevil's declaration that he wanted Hoopla lynched within the day (as opposed to Day).

Your posts so far indicate you have a stronger scum read of me, with me being the more proactive half of this "scummy connection." Why is your vote on Hoopla?

Like I said, I am willing to vote for either of you. What did you not like about the speed of the wagon and someone being aggressive about it? It continues to sound like you are trying to take the pressure off of Hoopla. Do you think that information could not have been found my lynching someone so quickly, or from a wagon forming so early on? You are afraid of a couple of votes on someone you selfishly defend...it looks like something you THINK a townie would do, so you do it yourself to make it look better when coming from scum.

Actually, I would like to switch my vote to you anyway. Hoopla may not actually be scum with you, but you are definitely scum.

unvote
vote: Equinox

[Blonde Doctor]

Did you miss my explanation? You asked if I thought Hoopla was scum

at that moment

...

at that moment

I made the association with Equinox and said yes (that I thought Hoopla was scum). Then when Equinox responded, I explained that my

original intent

was not to vote for Hoopla because I thought

she

was scum, but to get a reaction from Equinox because I thought

Equinox

was scum.

I do not understand what you are missing or what else I need to explain...

As far as your reasons for voting Equinox go, I agree with your assessment of her trying to

look

townie, though I came to this conclusion via post #45 as opposed to #29 like you did. I do not know how you thought #29 was her trying to look townie, though. It seems to just be an authoritative statement that leads into her #45 justification. I also agree with the Prana-vote assessment.

[Blonde Doctor]

Are you not reading?

I said I only voted her to get a reaction out of Equinox.

Then Equinox made me think they are BOTH scum, but Hoopla had the bigger wagon so it was not worth changing my vote to Equinox (even though I was very vocal about being willing to vote for either).

Now EQUINOX has been posting more and acting scummier (it does not matter that Hoopla has not posted) so I am much more confident in Equinox being scum for sure, and Hoopla may or may not be scum (she has not posted any content so there is not much to go on).

My read on Hoopla was ONLY based on the interactions Equinox had with her.

*sigh*
I do not understand what is so hard for everyone to understand...

[Blonde Doctor]

Okay BD, so Hoopla is scum because of her interaction with Equinox. Yet you voted for her instead of Equinox. Also, now Hoopla Mau actually not be scum for no discernable reason.

I really need you to reread what I said.

Hoopla...if Equinox flips town it means nothing of your innocence because it no longer means the associations I am gathering from you now are accurate...I know nothing about you right now. Just Equinox.

But come to think of it, I might found the cause of confusion. When I said "may not actually be scum" I think people read that as me thinking she is town now. But I mean it like "may not

actually

be scum...depending on if Equinox flips scum/the rest of the day," because I realize my associative tells were based off of the interactions of Equinox, NOT Hoopla. This is telling of her desire to "look" townie rather than "being" townie.

To reiterate: I am not confident in a Hoopla scumread. I am confident in an Equinox scumread.

Does that make more sense?

[Blonde Doctor]

and Hoppla's wagon moved WAY TO DAMNED FAST to not suspect prana and Blonde

Isoing...

Early speedwagons on Hoopla are in vogue. Next season, it will be N1 vigging.

To speak honestly, I have collected so many votes early in games, it seems to have an almost prosaic effect on me. Like Kcdaspot claims, there were too many people eager to sneak onto my wagon early under the guise of pressure or whatever else - maybe it is people's way of flirting with me.

Of all the voters, PranaDevil's was the most suspicious.

This sounds very much like making an excuse to not respond to a wagon that should have generated a response in one way or another.

CATFISH is trying too hard, which is ironic, because it looks like that is the reason he's voting for DeasVail.

How so?

My thing with catfish is there are a lot of questions. But there isn't a lot of work showing there.

Catfish pleaase get something resembeling a case up in this bitch please?

Scum telling his partner to put on a better show?

But I don't see them as linked with DV who I think has more chance of being mafia.

Pirate and Blonde are my other suspects at the moment.

I do not like the looks of vague accusations being thrown out so casually. This is not the only time you have done this.

Spoiler: This makes me think CATFISH is town

DV: It's not that you were interested it, it's how passive you were about asking about it. I would have expected you to be less neutral.

Hoopla: I thought you read more of it. That game was the catalyst of a play shift for me because I had absolutely perfect (literally perfect) reads from Day 1 and no one at all would listen to me and we lost, so it showed me my playstyle was ineffective even under the best of circumstances.

I tried to play a game of redemption later, but it was a generally horrible game that I ended up losing (to Equinox and SleepyKrew).

I've been seeking to redeem my memory of that game ever since it happened, and every new White Flag is a new chance. And the "no nonsense" set up tends to inspire me to play more logically (which is counterintuitive, since I played my first White Flag supremely logically and lost anyway). But that's how it is.

Also playing in a hydra makes me feel guilty if I pull strange shenanigans like I sometimes do by myself.

You not reading White Flag kind of ruins that line of inquiry.

I can't help but think DV is scum every time we play and this is no exception.

Hoopla just has this sinister tone behind her posts in my mind X.X she scares me.

Have you done anything to think otherwise? Do you feel that is affecting your judgment this game?

I actually think Hoopla was more proactive in Tit for Tat than here.

Does that tell you anything about what you think her alignment is? What is the relevance of this statement?

[Blonde Doctor]

This sounds very much like making an excuse to not respond to a wagon that should have generated a response in one way or another.

Why would I need to make an excuse for something nobody was accusing me of?

Do people always wait to be accused of something before willingly offering up an explanation for something they know looks bad?

[Blonde Doctor]

Sorry, activity is low on weekends due to prior obligations. I will catch up tomorrow.

[Blonde Doctor]

I have just been prodded in one game and am realizing I have neglected this one as well. I will be making catch-up posts in both tonight. My apologies.

[Blonde Doctor]

I do not like the looks of vague accusations being thrown out so casually. This is not the only time you have done this.

What bothers you about me mentioning my thoughts in the thread? Which other comments did you not like?

I am in my catch-up post right now, but I will ISO you to find them. I am positive I found at least one other post that made me think the same thing.

Do people always wait to be accused of something before willingly offering up an explanation for something they know looks bad?

The only thing that looked bad was the wagon itself.

That is my problem with your reaction, though. You did nothing to respond to it or analyize it, or anything.

I'm just sheeping Hoopla here. If you want to know why I'm sheeping my scumread you'll have to stay tuned for more later.

I am very curious as to why you would do this.

Spoiler: vijay2vasandani/DeasVail

^ uhh. The reason my read on you DIDN'T change was because you wanted me to change if you voted Prana.

Seriously DV, no response to what I said earlier? None at all? Just pretend I never said it and it'll go away? Get your ass up there and respond. I don't reply to your rubbish for the good of my health you know.

Oh, I'm so sorry! I just don't understand how I forgot to give my enlightening response.

"I disagree and still think you're scum."

I apologise if your post was supposed to change my read of you. That

is

what you reply to my rubbish for, is it not?

@ Hoopla: I'm bored here.. I'm going back to DV until you can give me better reason to be on Prana. Besides 191 is a good enough reason for me to believe he is scum.

VOTE: Deasvail

Unvote: Equinox
Vote: Prana

Can you change your mind on me now?

Because it doesn't sit right with me. You shouldn't have to ask me to do it, I will do it myself if I think it should change.

I do not like the fact that DeasVail was making deals to influence someone's reads...for some reason I feel it is a rookie mistake to do, but I cannot decide if it is because he is town and does not want to die, or if he is scum and is scared.

I think he has more motivation to do it as scum.

In post 160, CATFISH wrote:
I actually think Hoopla was more proactive in Tit for Tat than here.

Does that tell you anything about what you think her alignment is? What is the relevance of this statement?

vijay was saying Hoopla's play here reminded him of two previous Hooplascum games, one being Tit for Tat. I was also in Tit for Tat. I'm saying that Hoopla is playing differently here than there.

Ok. I think I missed the original question so this makes much more sense.

In fact, I should add that

I think it would be easier for Heilograph to come up with better arguments as town

, I think, even if they were simple. Instead, he is only pushing a convoluted, nonsensical theory on one player that did something a little unconventional during RVS. It reads very much like scum unable to fake scumhunting. I do think he probably has a propensity to be illogical no matter what, though.

This is speculation that only incriminates people who may not be that good or are not that smart. Your last sentence contradicts what you are saying, I think.

[Blonde Doctor]

Post 105 - Blonde seems a bit too anxious when claiming he wasn't really suspicious of Hoopla. Maybe something to remember later if either turn up mafia.

Ok, so this is actually the only other time I remember thinking you were throwing out vague statements that are too condemning before anything happens. But it was not as strong as I had originally though. I think you are legitimately scumhunting.

Scum

DeasVail
Equinox
Hoopla
kcdaspot
vijay2vadandani
PranaDevil
Huntress
CATFISH

Town

Heilograph?, Zeek?, Pirate Chemist?, Prolapsed Brain?

I do not know where the other four fit in because I admittedly have not been paying as much attention I as I should. I will be able to get a better read on them tomorrow.

[Blonde Doctor]

I did not have as much time for rereading as I had originally thought, but here are a couple of things that I saw at a glance:

1. kcdspot said I was scum and then said I was town. Both had no reasons, and I do not know what happened in the meantime to change his mind. Can you offer some insight to this?

2. CATFISH: I do not feel I was selective when I missed your original questions about PMs being sent to my account, etc. What makes you think Heilo is being selective here?

unvote
vote: DeasVail

I would like to see this flip much more than Equinox now.

[Blonde Doctor]

Why did Hoopla die? She has contributed nothing. I think I will reread her to find out who she suspected...

[Blonde Doctor]

She voted for five people yesterday; that does not help.

[Blonde Doctor]

I might be Heilograph and PranaDevil...

[Blonde Doctor]

Oh no...

I apologize; I completely forgot about this game. I all of a sudden received 20 emails and a prod. Please allow me tomorrow to get caught up.

Again, my apologies.

[Blonde Doctor]

I might be Heilograph and PranaDevil...

No. You are Blonde Doctor. See that name above your avatar? That's you.

That was a typo.

Why did Hoopla die? She has contributed nothing.

Maybe it was because scum thought she had "contributed nothing"? Or because some of her poking touched a sore spot or two? You drew her attention a couple of times, didn't you?

I believe I drew her attention when I pressed her for answers yesterday, yes. She responded only with snark which was slightly upsetting because it gave us nothing.

Why would scum kill someone who had "contributed nothing"?

Guys, Blonde Doctor came straight in this day and went "Hoopla died, let's look at people she suspected" and then just pulled out two names.

Are you upset because the two names I felt were most suspicious with the way Hoopla voted yesterday included you?

Because Heilo did that already with Catfish, I don't like the idea of that at all, thus chances are Heilo is scum. But my main point is "leave that scummy as hell post for now, we'll return to it tomorrow after this scum bites the dust".

Does this not also make Heilo scummy to you? Why does it make one person scum but not the other?

Prana didn't you promise to give us Heilo today?
We sure as hell better get Heilo tomorrow.

Also, what are people's opinions on PB? One head here is screamig scum, the other is null.

Heilo has to wait after the obv-scum Blonde Doctor.

Plus as I need a re-read I couldn't even remember saying that. I just know Heilo hasn't made an obv-scum slip this phase.

PB needs a re-read as much as every other bugger does for me.

I do not know what "obv-scum" slip you think I made, but I can guarantee you it does not exist. Is this some way of protecting your scum buddy Heilo?

Yes, IMO Blonde is town. The wagon on her has grown way too quickly for her to be scum

False logic I'm afraid. Not everyone on that wagon can be scum, and others can be scum bussing for pro-town points. I'd happily put someone to L-1 extremely quickly if I felt that they were scum. A wagon on scum can increase rapidly purely by lots of town thinking similarly, it's happened in games before, and will happen in them again.

What would be the benefit of scum bussing, especially so early? It seems to me that scum loses out on a lot by bussing, because that cuts their lifespan in half...

Yes, IMO Blonde is town. The wagon on her has grown way too quickly for her to be scum

The wagon didn't just come from nowhere; there was quite a bit of suspicion on BD from Day one.

I do not actually believe there was any suspicion other than the fact that I misspoke when I explained my account notification.


PranaDevil's continued avoidance of the Heilo wagon after promising that he would join it now and in the future is only further evidence that I believe they are scum together. I have not thought about who their third partner could be. I will post again with an explanation on why I believe Prana and Heilo were the two connected to Hoopla, as I clearly did not have the time last time I had posted and I apologize for that. I do think it speaks highly of Prana's jump to conclusions, though. He seems awfully jumpy for some who claims to be town.

[Blonde Doctor]

Oh, and I will be willing to vote for either today.

Mod: when is deadline this day phase?

[Blonde Doctor]

I should add a permanent V/LA on weekends to my signature. I just do not have the time or activity available to post due to other obligations. I apologize for the previous lack of explanation with regards to Heilograph and PranaDevil connection to Hoopla. That post is my absolute next one.

As of now, I would prefer a PranaDevil lynch over Heilo (even though Heilo is the bigger wagon) and I will be able to explain why in my next post when I have proven the connections between these two.

Ten minutes.

[Blonde Doctor]

Oh I got ninja'd by vijay...his reasoning for not voting for Heilograph actually reads very town to me. I believe he was previously voting for Heilo anyway, so it would not matter which of us he voted for.

[Blonde Doctor]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Heilogaph

We need a new vote leader.

Okay , town

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=13097

Scum

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=12488

I like the colours. Come vote Heilograph with me.

So , you are scum . you claim VT , KNOWING that their are only VT & scum.
The whole point of it. You decide to throw out your thought up role, so that any suspicion later on , would be countered by the fact you did indeed claim VT in the very beginning before any of this was established.

Sorry, but this makes zero sense. I mean... zero, none at all, nadda, zip, zilch.

What the hell are you getting at? Because someone says "I'm a VT" in an ONLY VT/Scum set-up, it means more than someone just saying "I'm town"?

It doesn't even matter if anyone says it or not, if you believe somebody to be town in this game, you believe them to be a VT. Therefore, any statement of someone being a VT is meaningless. Scum cannot come back later on and go "I claimed VT early on", because it doesn't even mean a damned thing, it's not a statement of alignment that is 100% correct, or 100% false, it's merely a statement of "I'm town". No more, no less, and you are trying to drag something out of absolutely sweet eff all, and if anything are being distracting about it. If you're town, go do some actual scum hunting instead of talking bollocks.

He asked , so i told him thats how i feel about it. I know that you are either a VT or a scum. But why would you just confirm with VT not just confirm? I took that as a scumlike action to a minor degree. I do believe i may be pushing that in the wrong direction , but it was what just bothered me. On the last part , why continue to scum hunt. when we could have a serious potential scum ?

Heilograph:

Was your initial vote on CATFISH serious or not?

Eh not at first , it was just RVS.
However as he got agressive, i felt that with combination of his confirm VT role line. He was more scum then town.
However , prana you do make some sense.
UNVOTE:
I got to go back and do some looking into. We can always lynch CATFISH later.

Hey vijay, wanna vote Prana together?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: PranaDevil

[Blonde Doctor]

I just posted the quotes because I think it looks messy if I try to edit in my thoughts at the same time.

Where I made the connection:
1. Heilo and Prana were the only two people Hoopla tried to convince other people to vote with her. The other three were all empty votes.
2. I missed two quotes I think, because Prana votes for DeasVeil and then responds to something Heilo states (that one I have quoted), then Heilo unvotes, while next voting for DeasVeil. It looks like Prana has subtly influenced Heilo to back off of his previous target and switch to a lynch they can then push together.
3. Prana also tried to lynch Hoopla almost immediately (pushed it for very superficial reasons, and heavily). I am speculating it is because he finds her intimidating, and did not wish to waste a night kill on her later.
4. Immediately after Heilo posts examples of his scum and town games, Hoopla votes for him. I do not know why the quotes are not in the right order, but you can see the post numbers are there.
5. I feel as though Prana is a better lynch because he has tried to set up a connection between myself and Heilo, and I believe lynching Prana would prove my innocence.

I also feel Prana is scummy because his vote on be looks entirely opportunistic in the way that he votes for me without questioning my logic. He does not provide reasoning, which makes me feel he does/did not have any, and looks as though he is heading off suspicion on himself before I had a chance to explain how I made these connections.

[Blonde Doctor]

Now that I have had a chance to make my case, I feel comfortable finally placing my vote.

vote: PranaDevil

[Blonde Doctor]

I think you are so aggressive because you are nervous that I have found something you thought you could hide.

I would switch wagons if it came down to it, but I believe you and vijay both missed my explanation of why I chose you first when I quite obviously explained it in my last point. Either you two are not reading correctly, or are trying to trap me into something I cannot explain anymore because I already explained it.

I did not try to "spread this day out" so I would appreciate it if you would stop making things up like that. This is why I believe it is better to lynch you first, because this would clear me. If we lynched Heilo first you will only argue for my lynch because of this so-called connection. Tell me, where is it other than my preference to lynch you first? I have more than proven that you two are connected through the night kill, in the votes of yesterday, and in your interactions with each other. Along with the fact that after you promised to lynch Heilo both yesterday and today, you immediately jump to me the first chance you get. You can claim to call Heilo scummy all you want, but you know you are pushing for my lynch today because you are protecting him.

Also, point #1 is NOT wifom. I stated a FACT. The FACT is, she actively pushed for your two lynches over anyone else's D1. I already quoted this but you can look for yourself. This is not something I fabricated. The fact that you are trying to make it such is even more scummy.

You still have not responded to what was so upsetting to you about my initial reaction with regards to Hoopla being night killed. I do not understand why you immediately jumped onto me for stating that I thought that you were scummy, only that I didn't vote for you and so you thought you could do it first. You have offered nothing of substance to explain this. You have only spouted rhetoric and sarcasm which only further my stance that you are nervous scum. I did nothing to warrant this aggressive behavior from you, except to mention a thought that had you responded to in a less emotional way, I might have thought you actually cared about my scum hunting like town would. But you did not, which only shows that you are more concerned with getting rid of people who suspect you than you are allowing us to scumhunt. If you were town you would have responded in a more calm and collected manner, and allowed me to make my case when I was able to have time to do so (regardless of the fact that it was on you), because you know that rest of the town is better off with all the information I could give them. But instead you tried to cut me off before I had a chance, knowing that if I was allowed to make my case people would listen to me. If not today, then tomorrow when my innocence is proven.

Scum do not like cases against them because they then have to answer to them.

[Blonde Doctor]

For heaven's sake Heilo has not posted since he opportunistically hopped onto my wagon! How does this not prove that they are scum together?!?

Preview Edit:
I was not being OMGUS on PranaDevil. I found him scummy first so how does that not make

his

vote on

me

OMGUS? Especially since he has not bothered to provide any reason why I am scummy because he does not really have any other than the fact that I called him scummy and did not provide examples

immediately

. It does not make any sense! I was not making a case out of it, but merely explaining that he did not have a case while complaining that I did not provide one, and it only made him scummier because of it.

[Blonde Doctor]

I wish Prana could respond right now. I hate waiting when I am so anxious to prove I am right.

[Blonde Doctor]

2. I missed two quotes I think, because Prana votes for DeasVeil and then responds to something Heilo states (that one I have quoted), then Heilo unvotes, while next voting for DeasVeil. It looks like Prana has subtly influenced Heilo to back off of his previous target and switch to a lynch they can then push together.

Prana voted for DV in post 204. He didn't address Heilo again after that for the rest of the day. Heilo had

already

unvoted, in post 181, and didn't vote for DV, or mention any suspicion of him, until he hammered him a week later. Prana was voting for Equinox at the time his comment prompted Heilo's unvote, which comment could equally well be read as defending Catfish (not suggesting it is as it read to me as just being a comment on a bad case).

In other words, BD is just taking a couple of posts, putting them together (in the wrong order), and hoping noone will go back and check up on what he is saying.

That is not true! I ISOed all of them together and if you did the same you would see that I am correct and now YOU are the one making things up and hoping no one will catch them. What are you, their third partner?? Come on, start

thinking

.

BD's case on Pranadevil is pretty awful, Hoopla has a big reputation on this site, so is normally killed early on, especially in this type game due to the absence of power roles to protect/watch her etc.

This is why I believe Prana was pushing for a quick lynch on Hoopla and covering it up with awful reasoning. What the heck, does no one read anything I write?? I even SAID that...

[Blonde Doctor]

If we lynched Heilo first you will only argue for my lynch because of this so-called connection.

I thank you for your blatant knowledge that Heilo is scum, and that you didn't say "If we lynched Heilo first, and he flipped scum". This very statement PROVES you are scum with Heilo. I thank ye.

I HAVE BEEN SAYING THE SAME THING ABOUT YOU. The fact that you have yet to correct me PROVES that YOU are scum with Heilo. I have been speaking in 100% definite since I made my case on you and now this is the only thing that you think to bring up because you want to pretend it

proves

anything?!?

What happened to disagreeing that lynching you first would prove my innocence? I KNOW you both are scum and you are still scummier and scummier by trying to turn my own case around on me. I have PROOF that you two are connected and all you have is me preferring to lynch you over Heilo to avoid a mislynch first. And now we KNOW that Heilo is scum and you HAVE to be his partner and bussed him (oh AND we have proof that you agree that bussing is a good thing).

Case closed (see? I can be

sarcastic and domineering, too

--difference is I do not have to pretend to avoid responding to anything).

[Blonde Doctor]

Oh and I never promised to lynch Heilo and then avoid him for TWO DAYS (like you did). I ONLY said I would prefer to lynch you first AFTER you threw out this unsubstantiated nonsense about me being his scum buddy. You had NOTHING other than the need to protect YOUR scum buddy and set up a mislynch for tomorrow.

[Blonde Doctor]

I went back to quote what I had found and I was mistaken. They had no interaction with each other after Heilo responds to Prana in the first post. I apologize for misreading.

So , you are scum . you claim VT , KNOWING that their are only VT & scum.
The whole point of it. You decide to throw out your thought up role, so that any suspicion later on , would be countered by the fact you did indeed claim VT in the very beginning before any of this was established.

Sorry, but this makes zero sense. I mean... zero, none at all, nadda, zip, zilch.

What the hell are you getting at? Because someone says "I'm a VT" in an ONLY VT/Scum set-up, it means more than someone just saying "I'm town"?

It doesn't even matter if anyone says it or not, if you believe somebody to be town in this game, you believe them to be a VT. Therefore, any statement of someone being a VT is meaningless. Scum cannot come back later on and go "I claimed VT early on", because it doesn't even mean a damned thing, it's not a statement of alignment that is 100% correct, or 100% false, it's merely a statement of "I'm town". No more, no less, and you are trying to drag something out of absolutely sweet eff all, and if anything are being distracting about it. If you're town, go do some actual scum hunting instead of talking bollocks.

He asked , so i told him thats how i feel about it. I know that you are either a VT or a scum. But why would you just confirm with VT not just confirm? I took that as a scumlike action to a minor degree. I do believe i may be pushing that in the wrong direction , but it was what just bothered me. On the last part , why continue to scum hunt. when we could have a serious potential scum ?

Heilograph:

Was your initial vote on CATFISH serious or not?

Eh not at first , it was just RVS.
However as he got agressive, i felt that with combination of his confirm VT role line. He was more scum then town.
However , prana you do make some sense.
UNVOTE:
I got to go back and do some looking into. We can always lynch CATFISH later.

DV is scum.

unvote
vote: DeasVail

VOTE: DeasVail


Lets rope em up!

[Blonde Doctor]

My apologies for the delay. I continue to forget to add an addendum to my signature explaining that I have virtually no activity on the weekends. This one was particularly long because of the extra Monday holiday.

For now, I will say that I am left with nothing now that Heilo flipped town, as my entire case was built on the premise that PranaDevil and Heilo were scum together. I never believed that they could be scum mutually exclusive of one another, which makes Prana near confirmed town to me.

This does mean I do not believe Hoopla's ISO is in any way useful anymore. I might have more luck with CATFISH, as well as mine and Heilo's wagons yesterday (since they were both build rather quickly). I feel like I am letting you down by not getting it done sooner, but unfortunately my eyes are droopy. I promise it will be done by nightfall tomorrow.

[Blonde Doctor]

Mafia Goons:

PranaDevil
Equinox
???

Vanilla Townies:

CATFISH
vijay
DeasVail
Pirate Chemist
6x ???

Hoopla and Huntress are missing from the list. This is a problem.

Actually a lot of people are missing. Why'd you specifically mention those two? Are they your scumbuddies?

[Blonde Doctor]

Oops. I did not mean to post this yet.

Mafia Goons:

PranaDevil
Equinox
???

Vanilla Townies:

CATFISH
vijay
DeasVail
Pirate Chemist
6x ???

Hoopla and Huntress are missing from the list. This is a problem.

Actually a lot of people are missing. Why'd you specifically mention those two? Are they your scumbuddies?

This was the only significant finding in CATFISH's ISO. Also, there was something they pointed out about Equinox, doing something as both town and scum...but that does not say much.

I believe it must have just been a kill on the more town player in the game so far, so unfortunately that does not tell us much on possible motivation. Rereading wagons now...

[Blonde Doctor]

Official Vote Count

Players needed to lynch: 7

DeasVail - 7 - vijay2vasandani,

PranaDevil

,

Kcdaspot

, Blonde Doctor, CATFISH,

Prolapsed Brain

, Heilograph - (LYNCHED)
Heilograph - 4 - Pirate Chemist, Hoopla, Zeek, DeasVail - (L-3)
Kcdaspot - 1 - Huntress - (L-6)
Prolapsed Brain - 1 - Equinox - (L-6)

Players not voting:
Players currently V/LA: None

Official Vote Count

Players needed to lynch: 6

Blonde Doctor - 5 - PranaDevil, Vijay2vasandani, Heilograph, Huntress, - (L-2)
Heilograph - 4 - CATFISH, brizingre1,

Prolapsed Brain

, Equinox ,

Kcdaspot

,

Pranadevil-

(LYNCHED)
Pranadevil - 1 - Blonde Doctor - (L-5)

Players not voting: Everyone else (i'll update this soon!)
Players currently V/LA:

There were only three people on both lynching wagons for D1 and D2 (four but one flipped town already). I believe Prana is town mainly because of Heilo's flip. The only thing that was scummy independent of Heilo was the push of the "scum slip" but that does not amount to scum.

Of the remaining two I had a town read on kcdaspot and Cogito Ergo Sum has not done anything to change that.

Equinox seems a little odd with her recent interactions with Cogito Ergo Sum. This:

If you die, I'll think about it.

seems to imply that she knows he is town because she does not question what his alignment would be when he flips in order to consider how to sheep him.

[Blonde Doctor]

Something bothered me about the quickness of both wagons (mine and Heilo's) at the beginning of D2, but that will have to wait until after sleep.

[Blonde Doctor]

Found an opening this weekend to post, since I realized I do not remember when the deadline is.

After that last post I realized we are very dangerously near letting Prolapsed Brain get away with 18 posts since the start of this game full of empty votes and prod dodges. I cannot believe no one (including myself, I concede to blame as well) has noticed this. For some reason I saw him post D2 and thought he was one of the people that replaced in, but after putting me at L-1 for no reason, and asking for a hammer, I had to ISO him.

Please do the same and you will realize he has been coasting this entire time, even BLATANTLY posting prod dodges and switching his vote every other post.

You had questions posed toward you and have not ever answered any of them, even avoiding doing so outright.

vote: Prolapsed Brain

I cannot believe I went this long tunneling on Prana and Heilo without noticing him.

To answer Huntress's concerns:
1. I felt that lynching PranaDevil first would confirm me because he had started suggesting that Heilo and I were scum partners together, trying to switch the focus off of him and Heilo and onto me. I felt that if he was lynched and flipped scum it would confirm that I am not in fact scumbuddies with Heilo, but Prana.

2. My comment to you that made you think I "knew" you were town was out of desperation because I felt you were town but what you were saying made me second guess my read on them. I could not believe that anyone could simply overlook everything I was saying about Prana and Heilo without having a hidden agenda (i.e. scum).

Prana is near confirmed town to me also because he did not try to push an easy mislynch on me today like I thought he would have if he had any chance to be scum without Heilo. I believe anyone who suggested we were bussing each other is clearly not reading everything else I had to say or scum with a hidden agenda and that is all I have to say about that.

[Blonde Doctor]

For goodness sake, this game is insufferable.

[Blonde Doctor]

To be honest, I have not been paying much attention to anything other than Prana and Heilo on Day 2. Day 1 was mostly questioning Equinox and Hoopla to my recollection, and was not very active beyond that.

I would believe vijay is scum with PB, but do not feel as strongly about Equinox. After D1 I felt much more of a town read on her.

Why do you all of a sudden think I am "most likely town"? I do not understand your change of heart.

[Blonde Doctor]

Er, that last post was mostly directed at Huntress.

[Blonde Doctor]

CES, if you think vijay and PB are scum together, why not just vote for PB since he is the bigger wagon?

Re: your recent "contradiction" findings...that in particular is not what I find scummy about him. It is his flippant votes where he does not seem to care who they are on.

In other news, the fact that there is a blatant difference between saying both of those things BEFORE a flip versus AFTER, and you not voting for PB after proclaiming they are probably scum together (without giving a reason as to why) makes me very suspicious of you.

Is this mylo, lylo, or neither? This would make a huge difference with my read on CES if this is the last mislynch scum have to push.

[Blonde Doctor]

Hmm. I thought CES was wrong with his push on vijay because of the timing of the posts, but I admit that the continued jumps onto people with no reasoning was suspect.

I am wondering if anyone on vijay's wagon would be willing to bus, but I would not be surprised if Huntress tried to avoid it by voting for an easy target at the end. Her interactions with me have been consistently suspect ever since my push on Prana and Heilo.

I do not even know what to look at anymore...I have been lost since Heilo's flip D2...

I am interested in what havingfitz has to say.

[Blonde Doctor]

I just saw my two prods. I apologize, but I am just not very interested in this game. It is very slow, and people repeat the same things over and over expecting the next time to all of a sudden mean they are right about what they were wrong about before. I do not really have the patience for that.

I guess today is lylo, so I will not replace out, but hopefully something actually happens.

I would not be surprised if it is Cogito Ergo Sum at this point. If Hoopla had such a reputation and that is why she died night one (and not due to her suspicions on D1), then would Cogito not also have the same fate? (maybe I'm incorrect in thinking he has a reputation?) Why is there so much inconsistency with the night kills?

...especially since he was the one who pushed vijay's lynch so hard, on what I felt was inconsistent logic. Scum have bias glasses on and are willing to see anything their partners do as scummy to gain town credibility.

I really do not have the energy to go back and see who argued it was due to reputation, but I think it was Equinox. I would not be surprised if the only two people who have the energy to play this game are scum.

[Blonde Doctor]

So it

was

you two??

Or at least Equinox waiting for one more person to hammer.

Unless we won...

Are you guys town or mafia?

[Blonde Doctor]

I thought Equinox was scum on D1 but everyone seemed to think I was "derp" all game. I also thought Equinox was scum again in post 536, but must have forgot you were voting for her... Even in my last post I hinted at thinking she was scum again (even though it was with you). I also thought your push on Equinox D3 was scummy because you kept it up like a game. You kept interacting with her like you thought she was town, It made me less inclined to follow you.

I still do not know how Prana thought I could have possibly been scum just because I said I was looking at the actions of D1. That kind of cemented my scum read on him.

I am also really disappointed that anyone who was town voted before everyone actually had a chance to do anything today. I had JUST noticed this game again and was prepared to follow through with it. That is quite unfortunate.

Also, I am sorry that I am not better at this game, nor had the time to devote on weekends (which seemed to cause several problems).

For the record, I really thought it was Prana and heilo were scum together until heilo flipped town...