Open 411: The game of C9++! (Game over: Town Win!)

[CF Riot]

Cynic, the Vij vote isn't happening. Who would you pick between the main wagons?

[CF Riot]

Oh yeah. I just iso'd and noticed that too. Well then Ald should claim now cause I was going to hammer. I just wanted Cynic to take a side on the major wagons first.

[CF Riot]

Since when do VT claims D1 split up a wagon? Esp when we had two people offer to drop a hammer?

Mind oozes scumminess in all of his posts. The possibility of defense is zero. Lynch it.

This was on page 12. Mind is Mastermind if anyone forgot.

No, ac's not dying today. It's going to end up being Ald. Dissappointing, but good enough.

vote Ald

TOMORROW, MMIND. TOMORROW.
Absta tricked me into giving you a chance to respond to a watered-down version of my case. But I'm not interested in screaming "vote for someone, goddamn it" ten minutes to deadline, and D2 will be more productive anyway.

We still have control. No need to resign ourselves to the leading wagons just yet if a compelling enough case can be presented. But we need INNOVATION.

So yeah. This, plus what Absta said bugs me. If you think we had time to discuss and not funnel down our votes, why did you do... exactly that?

I was going to make a real post out of this but I'm leaving to get food now. I'll be back tonight though.

[CF Riot]

What do acfan and Kondi think of mastermind?

[CF Riot]

Oh yeah, and I meant to ask.

Mod: can you update the playerlist on p1 with all the replacements, and correct the votecount on the top of this page to reflect Psyche voting MMind before Vij?

Thanks.

[CF Riot]

I should be listed as voting MMind. NS is the only one not voting right now.

[CF Riot]

What is that supposed to mean? We can't

deal with

a claim?

[CF Riot]

What would be the benefit of lynching him w/o a claim is the better question.

[CF Riot]

What do you think Vij?

[CF Riot]

lol kondi.

[CF Riot]

What do acfan

and Kondi

think of mastermind?

pedit: Then vote it Venmar. Your weak ass vote on Ald isn't doing anything right now.

[CF Riot]

Vote: Absta

What do you think of him Psyche?

[CF Riot]

Unvote

Venmar's post sounds like rolefishing but he's been so noobish today I'm almost willing to write that off.

More seriously, Mind's claim is scummy as hell. I don't like it one bit and I'm more than happy to lynch him for it. The way he phrases it tells me he's aware that he lost some of the votes that put him at L-1 and that there are other wagons that could top his but he claims anyways. It is my personal point of view that a doc would be more cautious and unwilling to share than this, while a nervous scum

would

claim in order to save his skin

or

bait a counterclaim. On that note,

NO ONE SHOULD COUNTER CLAIM MASTERMIND.

Let's be perfectly clear about that. Number one, we should discuss whether we even believe him or not in the first place, and number two it is very possible for there to be two or more doctors in this game.

Whatever the case, I put it to the town that we should now only be considering between an Aldus lynch or a Mastermind lynch. I feel like driving anyone else up now is only giving scum too much information on who to kill and not kill, in addition to the short time till deadline we're all aware of.

[CF Riot]

FoS Panzer. If I'm interpreting this correctly you think Absta coached Mastermind into fake claiming doc with the intention to also fake claim doc later. I don't understand that train of thought at all. I also stand by the opinion that we should stop making every single player in the game claim D1. Mind shouldn't have claimed, and Absta shouldn't have done w/e the hell that was he just did, but voting for acfan or Panzer or whoever right now is seriously a bad idea and possibly scum driven thought. Forcing more claims just makes it much easier for scum to pick the best kill.

Fuck that, CF's post feels set up specifically to make Ald the only option.

^ duh. He says we can only lynch Ald (who claimed w/e) or the doc. It's like saying let's lynch Ald or that brick wall over there.

Ald claimed VT. This is not how my post should've been interpreted. I specifically said in the post I'd prefer Mind. See below.

I think that after N1 our ability to explore the fakeness of these claims will improve.

I get the idea, but I don't necessarily think this is true since doc isn't something that's easily confirmable. Scum can no-kill to support a fake claim, there could be other docs, there could be a roleblocker that stops the kill, SK with kill immunity, or he could just see who's dead in the morning and say "I protected this other guy" and we'd have no way to disprove it. There's also a possibility of scum having a RB which would mean as claimed doc MMind is much less useful now. Given this I'd prefer a Mind lynch to an Ald lynch, and I'd happily support either before voting someone else up less than a day to deadline and forcing yet another claim.

[CF Riot]

So you are okay with an L-4 doc claim? And you are okay with him saying it could of been a jailkeeper claim, when there is no chance a jailkeeper can be in this game AND the only chance for a roleblocking role is SCUM ROLEBLOCKER?

Town roleblocker is a possible role in this setup.

[CF Riot]

You can RB the scum sending in the kill to prevent it. The way a JK works is you can protect someone while blocking them at the same time, but that's irrelevant here.

I think Mind, Absta and Ac are all floating around 3 or 4 votes. What I don't like about absta is the way he's constantly trying to get everyone to post their reads, rather than voicing his own. I feel like he's surveying the town to help decide where to put his vote and who to NK. The way he mentioned multiple times how he was okay with a Mind vote but was so hesitant to actually put a vote there bothered me earlier as well. Then there's the recent "I'll protect you but this isn't a doc claim but it could be a JK claim" mess he's stirring up.

[CF Riot]

Vote: Mastermind

I'll be around prior to deadline if I need to change.

[CF Riot]

Less than 3 hours til deadline. The next post in thread should be a hammer on Mind.

[CF Riot]

Absta isn't a doc.

[CF Riot]

2. Someone was protected, meaning a doctor is probably actually present in this game.

Town roleblocker is a possible role in this setup.

You can RB the scum sending in the kill to prevent it.

Curious, who did you protect Absta? You did after all claim a protective role didn't you?

This is pretty damn scummy. There's no reason to ask that.

It was an opening post, showing what i thought of the night results.

Scum are more likely to comment on night outcomes that are detrimental to a faction.

Is this the reasoning for your vote?

[CF Riot]

It is scummy to rolefish and a lot of posts lately from Panzer and others have been rolefishing type posts, but I really must say Absta, vijay, and now Venmar are totally bringing it on themselves by being cryptic and hinting at insider information. If you wouldn't make posts like that people wouldn't be tempted to question them.

@Panzer how strong is your read on Absta? I was hotter on him yesterday but now I'm starting to read him as self-important town.

I'm thinking we might be good lynching someone who isn't doing anything this game.

Who?

[CF Riot]

I kinda figured that was Absta's gambit at the end of yesterday. I think it's bad play, but consistent with the self-important town read. Absta you should've known better b/c we talked about the multiple reasons why there could be a no-kill other than a doc protect in this game.

Venmar, your claim was also bad play. Psyche is not confirmed, and even if he was that doesn't mean his reads on D2 will all be right. You were on the scum end of a lot of people's suspect lists so assuming you didn't get lynched immediately you could've survived a few more days and possibly gotten another protect or two off this game and been much more valuable to us towards the end.

Now i'm really confused. Most of my scum reads were based around Venmar.
Chainsaw defence by Vijay is more likely now as an attempt to buddy town.

This is a bad theory b/c you're saying vijay's actions are scummy if Venmar is scum, but now that he may be town it's still scummy. Vijay could very possibly just be town defending someone he saw as town.

Vijay chose to go after the next pro-town guy who is more likely to be a PR than me.

This is also a crappy theory. You were/are a pretty high end suspect for a lot of people. The mafia team may have decided not to kill you for that reason, thinking you'd be an easy mislynch today. Or the mafia may have a roleblocker and believed your fake soft-claim, but not killed you b/c with the blocker you're not a threat. Neither of these scenarios require that Vijay be on the scumteam. Not to mention we still don't know that the mafia targeted Psyche and were stopped by Venmar.

This is anti-town...lynch please.

That's twice you've done this now. Someone who's been on the site as long as you knows anti-town != scum.

Vote: Panzer

[CF Riot]

@mod

im on the vc twice, and can you update p1 and the thread title please. tiy.

[CF Riot]

Droppin a heads up, my family decided to run a fireworks stand. I may bein semi-LA until the 5th depending on how busy we get. Most likely I'll still be around enough to keep up though.

[CF Riot]

So what the fuck...Mastermind claims doc at L-3 and Absta claims he will protect mastermind at l-3? Why are all these "townies" claiming so far from a lynch? Also Absta called for the claim at L-2.

So we have 2 doctor-esque roles?

I'm not sure if I believe we have two doctors, Absta called that doctor claim and then claimed doctor. Why would you assume someone would claim doctor if you're doctor(even if it is technically possibly in the setup)? I'm thinking absta scum deliberately had mastermind claim early and lead him into the doc claim.

unvote: Vote Absta

In his defense, both the claims were scummy and both have been proven lies now, but this vote on absta seems like a wagon hop. There were a few reasons before the claim thing for voting absta and Panzer doesn't touch on any of those. The reasoning given is convoluted, it reads like he's accusing absta for forcing a claim but also hinting that mastermind is scum as well which contradicts the first point. I think Panzer saw absta gaining votes and just latched onto this as an excuse for being on the wagon. Also note the rolefishing in the middle.

I didn't bother to quote them but it also bothered me that Panzer made 3-4 posts within 24 hours of the deadline and didn't switch his vote, despite voicing that he would do so to prevent a no-lynch.

Guys i'm not scum. That "claim" before was just my attempt to protect the "doctor" by manipulating the scum kill in a way. I think it worked.

This is

anti-town

...lynch please.

My Absta read is tremendously hot. I agree that rolefishing is anti-town scummy, but deliberately soft-claiming a role when under pressure/being suspected then being like "no that wasn't me claiming it was a joke/you misread", ect is far more

anti-town

because it brings confusion into the town, pretty much commands "rolefishing", and sets up fakeclaims for scum. The whole "I'll protect mm so it's cool he claimed at L-2" when absta's wagon was gaining speed is incredibly scummy.

These posts back up my view on the absta-hop. OGML also gave a pretty good explanation of it. I think Panzer saw suspicious looking play from a person with a decent wagon and decided they would be an easy lynch. Once absta explained what the claim really was though it was no longer scummy play, just bad play. Panzer knows this but is unwilling to let the momentum die, so he's pushing for the lynch while letting slip that it's not really scummy. He said he uses the terms anti-town and scummy interchangeably. If that's true then these points are null but I know the distinction between the two has come up plenty of times on the site, so as a regular I figure Panzer knows the difference.

That said, my Panzer vote is pretty weak. At the time it was made it was sort of a feeler vote to get a read on him and see how the rest of the field reacted. I'm cooling on absta despite his questionable play. Vijay is actually probably the best lynch candidate today.

Vote: Vijay

[CF Riot]

Scum copy-cat other players' opinions to avoid suspicion. They also use the attitudes of townspeople toward other players as a way to gauge who is easier to lynch vs who to nightkill. That's why sometimes if a read isn't terribly strong or seems unimportant in the context of the game, a town player will choose not to share. Obviously the scum motive not to share is they don't really have a read, or they're afraid pushing an opinion will draw suspicion.

Kondi & NS, who are your top 3 suspects?

[CF Riot]

So totaly scum.

Why?

I'd say Panzer,

kondi

and maybe CF.

Why?

[CF Riot]

last minute distancing between absta/venmar or is that a self-preservation vote from absta? Both are still scummy, I'd lynch either.

I buy the venmar claim. Seems like it came from genuine frustration(also if this is a third fake doc claim i swear to god)

This is the cog diss you're referring to correct? Panzer claimed this was a typo here which would explain that. Did you miss this or do you not believe that excuse for some reason?

Is the fact that you think Chamber is town and he's voting me the only reason I'm on the list? Cause that's pretty weak given that Chamber won't say why he's voting me in the first place.

[CF Riot]

Apparently so.

[CF Riot]

There wasn't anything wrong with either of those posts.

Kondi explain your town read of Chamber.

[CF Riot]

Vijay was such a fucking awful lynch.

BS. Why?

[CF Riot]

If OGML doesn't wanna being in this game i'm happy with him being either replaced or lynched, no point in forcing him to play.

Vote:OGML

wish you had more interest in the game , bud.

Ah.

vote panzer

This is so obviously a mislynch push that it's sad.

Sheepin Psyche. FoSin' Chamber and NS if scumflip.

Vote Panzer

[CF Riot]

Why are you complaining Chamber, I thought you had to reread or something anyways?

ac who's scum?

[CF Riot]

Cause you're tryin to pull town points for being off the wagon.

[CF Riot]

absta what separates ald from NS from Kondi? Hell you can just about add OGML and acfan to that list too.

[CF Riot]

Voting someone b/c they're uninterested when you don't think they're scum is silly. Why do you think Psyche is scum now?

[CF Riot]

If we're popcorning Absta needs to pick someone to claim.

[CF Riot]

It also means Ald is likely town.

How do you figure?

[CF Riot]

Oh boy. Let the wifom flow. Why is Panzer a townread for you?

[CF Riot]

Wow I don't understand at all. Why would Panzer get towncred for being skeptical about 3 scum if 2 scum was impossible?

@Mod

or anyone else who has the info, the D3 final votecount is missing now. I know it was screwed up and OGML got lynched early but I'd still like to be able to see who was voting who at the end of the day. As I write this I realize I could just put forth some effort and go count the votes myself but I'd still like to point out erasing votecounts is not good moderation.

[CF Riot]

=D 0.5=

mastermind

-

Darkling_Perhaps

,

Alduskkel
Alduskkel

-

vijay2vasandani

, Nobody Special,

ac1983fan

,

Venmar, psyche

,

Kondi

,

Cynic

(Offered to hammer)

ac1983fan

-

OhGodMyLife

,

Panzerjager

,

mastermind

,

absta

Elmo TeH AzN

-

kondi2424

=D 1=

mastermind

-

Alduskkel

,

vijay2vasandani, Cynic Clinic, psyche

,

CF Riot

,

Venmar

,

absta

(LYNCH!)

ac1983fan

-

mastermind, OhGodMyLife

Nobody Special -

ac1983fan

absta

- Nobody Special,

kondi2424

,

panzerjager

=D 2=

absta

-

ac1983fan

vijay2vasandani - Venmar

,

alduskkel

,

CF Riot

,

panzerjager

,

absta

,

OhGodMyLife, psyche

(LYNCH!)

panzerjager

-

vijay2vasandani

CF Riot

-

chamber

,

kondi2424
kondi2424

- Nobody Special

=D 3=

OhGodMyLife

-

alduskkel

,

panzerjager

,

Chamber

,

Kondi

, NobodySpecial

panzerjager

-

CF Riot

,

OGML

Kondi

-

Psyche

Alduskkel

-

ac1983fan

,

absta

[CF Riot]

Look how beautiful. There's going to be analysis with this soon but I'm going to eat dinner.

[CF Riot]

Fuck THIS! If Kondi or NS turn out to be town I will consider blacklisting them.
For now I will take a time out.
UNVOTE:

My reads on people: (These can and will change)
Venmar - Strong town
Psyche - Strong town
Chamber - scum
Ald - null-leaning scum
Kondi - scum
NS - scum
acfan - null
OGML - null- leaning town
Vijay - scum
Riot - null
Jager - scum
----
The lack of posts from Ald, OGML, acfan, NS and Kondi is annoying. The Mod has more than double the amount of posts than some of these.

Okay NS & Ald look extremely scummy for their votes on OGML. Ald has 21 posts in an over 900 post game. That deserves a lynch for sure.

VOTE: NS
This one is better. NS tried to give a reason for his vote.

VOTE: Ald
We need to lynch Ald or NS.

[CF Riot]

Also what? You were pushing the Ald vote so hard yesterday, and voted him right out of the gate today.

[CF Riot]

You just said NS is unreadable and that he's not in your top 4 suspects. But you were voting him D3 and calling him scum both before and after that.

[CF Riot]

Ald unvoted in post 1053.

I've considered Panzer-scum a couple times for different reasons this game. You tell me why Kondi is scum now. More scum than Ald or NS.

[CF Riot]

Oh yeah, Absta unvoted too. So the only one voting right now is Panzer.

[CF Riot]

I am seriously going to assume if you're not answering this right now that you're having to go reread the thread and think of a reason Kondi is scum b/c you're scum and screwed up your pretend reads.

[CF Riot]

So be quick. Summarize it for me. Kondi is scum because...

[CF Riot]

Part memory, part doing that votecount thing.

pedit, bah post from 2 days beyond the grave. Wow Psyche.

[CF Riot]

My Kondi & Jager reads are gut.

I'm sorry but if you're town, which is seeming less and less likely, you'll have to do better than a gut read in possible lylo. What happened to Ald-scum? What's with acfan-scum read from a page ago? Why are two gut-reads above those two, and NS from a day ago?

Kondi I still don't understand your associations and logic thought process.

Everything NS linked to as his reasons for voting absta seem super weak to me, and putting somebody at L-1 before we've finished massclaiming or acfan has even posted is anti-town at best.

[CF Riot]

I'm giving every player 1 post from now to say they lied about their claim then I'm voting NS. VT if it isn't obvious.

[CF Riot]

Yeah obviously you don't count as far as that statement goes.

[CF Riot]

Don't bother NS. You know why you're about to be lynched.

[CF Riot]

acfan is all that's left. I really didn't expect anyone to have been lying though. I'm noting that it's unlikely NS scum would put absta scumbuddy at L-1 after I accused him. Even with the townpoints he'd get from bussing I don't know if it'd be enough to carry him through 2 mislynches.

[CF Riot]

Tough break NS.

[CF Riot]

ac, who do you think is scum and why?

[CF Riot]

Ya know what it doesn't even matter. Feel free to hammer.

Vote: Panzer.

[CF Riot]

Oh wait, I was the hammer. Voided left Kondi off the votecount.

[CF Riot]

GG everybody. Tough break for NS and Panzer. Without the fake claim, who knows. You both had suspicion of different degrees from different parts of the town, but you may have been able to wiggle out.

Absta no offense but you were painful to play with. From my experience running gambits as town usually draws more attention to yourself than to anyone, scum or otherwise, "caught" in the gambit. Still, play how you like. This is just my two cents.

Venmar, my only advice is to hold off claiming early as a PR. Considering Psyche as conf. town this game ended up helping us, but as we found out, that really wasn't even the case. I also think had you not claimed and survived for a few more nights you could have made an even bigger impact.

acfan you should lurk less. Kondi, I don't know what to think about you cause in a way your strategy worked. D1 and 2 I thought you may be a PR, which is kinda what you were going for. But I'm saying right now, I had planned on voting you over ac if Panzer was town. But he wasn't so... good job! Ha.

I haven't read the dead thread yet but, did mastermind ever explain why he faked doc?