Open 410 Trouble in Paradise Game Over TOWN WIN

[PeregrineV]

Vote: TvK

Not sure how to pronounce that.

@Rach- Sorry to hear about your Dad. Prayers and crossed fingers for you both.

[PeregrineV]

Wow, this game is going slow.

This is my first open, so I don't really know the etiquette of trying to break the game. Anyone here with Open experience that can talk about if that's acceptable?

My only open non-theme was a replacement with weak cops and such.

Vote: Om of the Nom

For voting everybody, but in effect not voting anybody while trying to look like he was voting somebody.

Please do not try to break my game. The set up is basically very similar to a newbie set up. You all should be able to play it without breaking it.

[PeregrineV]

Wow, this game is going slow.

This is my first open, so I don't really know the etiquette of trying to break the game. Anyone here with Open experience that can talk about if that's acceptable?

Please do not try to break my game. The set up is basically very similar to a newbie set up. You all should be able to play it without breaking it.

Will do. Just brought to mind the Newbie game we just finished.

[PeregrineV]

Pere do you think I'm good at flailing? Or do I need to work on my act more?

Not sure, since i've never played with you and didn't know you were supposed to be flailing. If you were, than yes.

Also, the review board aims to avoid breakable setups. Just play as normal.

Thoughts on LS? @PV

His attempts at flailing were underdone, and unrecognizable as flailing.

Vote: Om of the Nom

For voting everybody, but in effect not voting anybody while trying to look like he was voting somebody.

I found this hilarious, are you being serious (not meant in a mean way)?

Sure, why not.

And to get the game moving. It seems kind of slow.

And I was going for the rhymey-thing, because it sounds cool.

[PeregrineV]

Unvote.

No reason to have a lynch this early.

Vote: Chrimi

Too slow with the read.

[PeregrineV]

TvK, I would expect you of all people to know that Om flails epicly when under pressure.

Yes I know, but last time

he was town as well

so I don't want him to do the same thing twice.

Everyone should submit how they interpreted this post.

Basically, you have two interpretations to choose from. Om's interpretation in #119, or TvK's interpretation in #121. But you can come up with your own if you want.

It looks like TvK "knows" Om is town. Are you saying scumslip?

[PeregrineV]

Pretty sure TvK is scum

Then you're saying the JK claim is fake? And you don't think he's town fakeclaiming it, and you moved your vote?

Need to explain more and better.

Vote: kondi2424

[PeregrineV]

You were perfectly fine with hammering TvK which was a quick wagon. What's wrong with me wanting another wagon this quick?

The fact that TvK's wagon was justified. Whats the reason for mine?

Also, the fact TvK had a wagon because he let a 'scumslip' out trying to protect you yet you didn't reciprocate the same feelings. You just want a lynch to happen. A mislynch by the seems of it.

So you think Om should "protect" TvK?

[PeregrineV]

We are not running people up to L-1, getting a claim, and doing it to someone else. That's twice today for no good reason.

Also, I like how he casually tries to connect TvK and I together as scumbuddies for no reason.

Where did he do this?

[PeregrineV]

We are not running people up to L-1, getting a claim, and doing it to someone else. That's twice today for no good reason.

So you think we should lynch Gen?

maybe after 163 gets answered, and let Gen give his reads. If he's still got 5 votes and conversation is done, then yes.

Personally, I'm not seeing a stellar reason to do so, but most of the day so far has been like this.

[PeregrineV]

I said I was willing to wagon GW. It was a useful wagon and I think it did good. GW is leaning town.

I obviously said I think TvK is scum, and I obviously said I think vijay is scum. BUT, I also think you are scum. Obviously one of these has to be wrong.

VOTE: vijay if I'm not already.

You've provided no reasoning for any of your scumreads

[PeregrineV]

@Peregrine, are you posting the above for QFE?

Not sure what QFE is. Quoting for Effect?

Anyways, Kondi hasn't given any reasons for his scumreads. I would even take gut, but prefer something like 173. Don't like the whole ignoring the request.

Also, thumbs down on the self-vote. What would be the point if you are town?

[PeregrineV]

TvK

: Who do you think is scummy?

LS is the scummiest person. So,

VOTE: Lastsurvivor

Why is LS scummiest?

[PeregrineV]

If they actually believed it made him confirmed scum TvK would have votes on him. Therefore, they don't believe that.

Kondi- In YOUR opinion, is TvK scum? Is he lying about being the JK?

[PeregrineV]

Just a simple yes/no? If I had to choose, yes.

Well then why would there of not been a CC. I do not condone a CC but I think there would of been one by now or whoever the real 'JK' was would of been at least pushing a TvK lynch so I think that like pointed out earlier you are trying to get a mislynch going.

If TvK is the JK, then he can't be counterclaimed.
If TvK is scum pretending to be the JK, why would the JK out themselves when they don't have to? Or, they could, but then we would have to figure which to believe. If we believe scum, then the JK lynch would result in auto scumlynch day2. If we believe the JK and lynch the fake-cc, then the JK is outted and can be night killed.
The best thing to figure if TvK is scum would be by seeing if anyone still suspects him for reasons that appear unrelated.
Since Kondi seems like he's trying to suspect TvK while not pushing the issue, I was thinking he might be the JK trying not to out himself.

However, his answer instead looks like he wants to keep the TvK=scum option open while not doing anything about it.
Saying stuff like "He must not be scum since nobody believed he scumslipped." looks like he's trying to direct attention towards it while not actually leading on it.

Confirm Vote: Kondi

[PeregrineV]

I'll try this ONE MORE TIME.

I AM NOT SUGGESTING WE LYNCH TVK. I AM SAYING THAT NO ONE ACTUALLY HAD FAITH IN THIS "SLIP" BECAUSE THEY WOULD BE VOTING TVK RIGHT NOW.

Maybe you'll see it this time.

Saying stuff like "He must not be scum since nobody believed he scumslipped."

Where was this said by me?

If my paraphrase is wrong, then what is another way of saying this?

(1)I AM NOT SUGGESTING WE LYNCH TVK.

I AM SAYING THAT

(3)NO ONE ACTUALLY HAD FAITH IN THIS "SLIP"

BECAUSE THEY WOULD BE VOTING TVK RIGHT NOW.

You are maintaing that

1. You don't want to lynch TvK

2. He is scum

3. TvK did NOT scumslip

4. That he is not scum, becasue if he was, people would vote him for his scumslip

(3) that he did not make(3).

You look like your trying to keep both opinions on him, and using the same argument to do so.

[PeregrineV]

PV

Since Kondi seems like he's trying to suspect TvK while not pushing the issue, I was thinking he might be the JK trying not to out himself.

Why did you keep your vote on Kondi if you were thinking he was the real JK?

I didn't think that at first. It was bothering me that he kept on about TvK being scum while taking his vote off. After the fourth time, I tried to think through why he might be doing it. So I decided to ask point blank, expecting a point blank answer if he didn't want to directly CC TvK. But it wasn't, so I don't think he is the JK, I think he's scum trying to subtly keep doubt on TvK.

[PeregrineV]

Except you didn't respond to this.

You're wrong on both two and four. I was asked, yes or no, if TvK is scum. I am truthfully LEANING SCUM ON HIM. Four is a complete misrep. Four is supposed to give reasoning for Three (hence it came after Three with the word "because"). This is simple sentence structure. I was not giving reasoning for TvK not being scum. I was giving reasoning for no one believing that TvK scumslipped.

Not sure what you want me to say.
You didn't say leaning scum when asked, you said yes. Now you are "clarifying" that you meant LEANING SCUM ON HIM.
And

I was not giving reasoning for TvK not being scum. I was giving reasoning for no one believing that TvK scumslipped.

looks like a direct contradiction to 2.
Basically, for him to have scumslipped, he'd have to be scum, which you are simultaneously saying and not saying to various degrees.

[PeregrineV]

Catching up today.

[PeregrineV]

@Everyone not voting for Jal (excluding Jal obvs). AKA Gen Wolf, TvK, Peregrine, Vijay, Shotgun:

Tell me what you think of Jal.

Just reading the last few RL days of his posts, he's leaning town, since I get his argument and the points he's making in his argument with you.

I can give a better answer after I do an Iso on his posts.

[PeregrineV]

Just dropping in, more will have to be Monday.

TvK needs to claim, but no one else yet.

[PeregrineV]

I don't think scum thought out that night kill thoroughly.

TvK: I want a base reads list from you. Also - why PV?

I got town vibes from you, Om and GW. Shotgun, vijay, PV and LS were null. So I picked PV.

From this, I take it you were not going for the protect, but for the block. But, had you protected me, you wouldn't have known. So, just curious why you would not use the protect role on someone you thought was town.

@LS- I am not the Jailkeeper.

Also, tracker should only claim if they followed TvK and he did NOT target me last night.

[PeregrineV]

Did a reread. Gen Wolf (SB, I suppose) and Jal are town. TvK is confirmed town as of last post.

This leaves drmyshotgun, vijay, and pere who I have mixed feelings about.

Let's start at the end.

VOTE: PeregrineV

Normally I leave single votes on me alone, since I know I can't please everybody all of the time. However, in a game this small, I better address any concerns early.

What is the cause of your "mixed feelings"?

For obvious reasons I'm keeping TvK as town. Would like to hear from Sir Bastion, but I'll also have to go back through the thread.

[PeregrineV]

I agree that sentence was vague though. You probably want an answer though, right?

If you want me to respond to it, yes. Otherwise, no.

[PeregrineV]

I see the SirBastion replacment post and the LS arguement, but I'll have to get on tonight to respond more in depth. For now, no, no, and ok, I'll go over it again.

[PeregrineV]

regrienV is either the most blatant scum or a moron of the highest order

You are either blatant scum or not very bright.

Not quite sure where all this love is coming from. But, I'm sure you'll expand on this repeated notion that I scum or a blithering idiot.

[PeregrineV]

Generalities: I feel that you've been hiding in the shadows this whole game. Basically, you egged things on in the beginning until you locked onto Kondi. And then...well, it's just kinda bad.

Examples of egging things on include this. Basically, egged on the scumslip. I was going to do it anyway, but there was no way you could have been sure.

So this is you accusing me of doing something you were going to do. Is that correct?

I'm still confused by this...

We are not running people up to L-1, getting a claim, and doing it to someone else. That's twice today for no good reason.

Why did you make this statement...and then insist on going after Kondi?

3 people ran up to L-1.

Spoiler: Mod VCs

Vote Count 1.03

Chrimi (1) Jal
Om of the Nom (4) TvK, PeregrineV, Vijay, Kondi

(L-1)

TvK
Gen_Wolf
vijay2vasandani (1) Gen_Wolf
Lastsurvivor (1) Om of the Nom
Jal (1) Lastsurvivor
kondi2424
PeregrineV


Not Voting:
Chrimi



With 9 Players it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline is in (expired on 2012-06-19 18:44:04)

Vote Count 1.03

Chrimi (1) Peregrine
Om of the Nom (1) TvK,
TvK (4) LS, Vijay, Jal, Om

(L-1)

Gen_Wolf
vijay2vasandani (1) Gen_Wolf
Lastsurvivor (1) Kondi
Jal
kondi2424
PeregrineV


Not Voting:
Chrimi



With 9 Players it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline is in (expired on 2012-06-19 18:44:04)

Vote Count 1.04

Chrimi
Om of the Nom
TvK (1) Jal
Gen_Wolf (4) Om, Vijay, Kondi, TvK

(L-1)

vijay2vasandani (1) Gen_Wolf
Lastsurvivor
Jal
kondi2424 (2) Peregrine, LS
PeregrineV


Not Voting:
Chrimi



With 9 Players it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline is in (expired on 2012-06-19 18:44:04)

2 claims from that:

Vanilla Townie. Doesn't make a difference if someone shows intent or not... Just look at Om tomorrow please.

I am jailkeeper.

You are asking me why I made that statement when it happened twice already? And the first thing I said when I came in was should we try to break the game, and Rach said:

Please do not try to break my game. The set up is basically very similar to a newbie set up. You all should be able to play it without breaking it.

If you are really asking this, I'll explain it. Otherwise, I'll let you think about it.

And I went after Kondi for many reasons.

#298 is bad.

Originally I thought it was good

because I thought kondi was scum

and...let's be honest, the colors were pretty. However, kondi refuted it completely. You kept on hammering home the fact that Kondi said he TvK was scum and then contradicted himself, even though he only said that in response to a yes/no question where his answer implied that he didn't totally believe TvK was scum. When Kondi explained this to you, you pretty much ignored it. It really looks like you were just trying to push a ML and ignoring the facts.

I don't have a question about that part....just explaining it for the good people of the town.

I've bolded my summary of that.

[PeregrineV]

Since Kondi's town, Jal being town is fairly likely due to the townslip he pointed out.

What do you mean by this?

[PeregrineV]

I was actively pursuing Kondi's lynch because of the reasons I gave. At first, his lack of responding, then his lack of reasons, then his TvK waffling, then his continuing argument about TvK.

You seem to be joining the two statements when they are two separate entities.

1. Running up a player to L-1, having them claim and repeating 9 times is attempting the break the game. It is the same as a massclaim.
2. In the process of doing it 2 or 3 times, Kondi kept being scummy, so that's who I voted for.

And preventing a claim < catching scum.

[PeregrineV]

Somehow I doubt you were catching scum, due to what I pointed out in my original case. You do realize that no one was attempting to break the game, right? It just happened. Also, you still haven't addressed what I really care about: If you didn't want us to run someone else up, why focus on someone else? "Because I wanted to catch scum," just doesn't cut it...because so did those that ran their scumspects up to L-1.

So I didn't catch scum because Kondi wasn't scum. While technically correct, there is a fallacy in your argument, because NO ONE caught scum.

Shortcutting to a massclaim and running everyone up to L-1 and forcing a claim may be two routes to the same place, but it's still the same place.

My biggest problem with the Gen_Wolf and TvK runups was the lack of cases. What were the cases that drove those to L-1 and a claim? You can do Om while your at it, even though he didn't claim, he was an early L-1. And I had a case on Kondi, which you never seemed to notice until today.

Vote: LastSurvivor

[PeregrineV]

Hey guys, was limited access, but will start catching up today.

[PeregrineV]

I have learnt not to go vla with my vote on someone now...I am going to hurt some of you.

I would like to understand this better. The person you were voting for was lynched, and now you are unhappy?

@Jal- After a flurry of day1 activity, you seemed to fade to the background day2, and seem to be tight-lipped today also. Who are your top 2 scumpicks and why?

@Shotgun- Same question. Saying your not scum means nothing. Who are your top two scumpicks and why?

@Vijay- Do you think Shotgun being jailed=protect or roleblock?

@TvK- Since you are the closest thing to confirmed town to me, please read and post.

[PeregrineV]

@TvK- I guess in this type of game (Open) you are confirmed. But normally that option is not available, and mod-confirmation (through roles or flips) is needed.

If we no lynch, it's either 4:2 or 3:2.

If we lynch scum Shotgun, it's either 4:1 or 3:1. If we lynch town-Shotgun, it's either 3:2 or 2:2.

Role PM's

Mafia Goon

Welcome, [Player Name]. You are a

Mafia Goon

, along with your partner, [Player Name].

Abilities:

Factional communication: During the night phase you may talk with your partner here [QuickTopic link].
Factional kill: Each night phase, one of you or your partner may perform the factional kill.

Win condition:

You win when all members of the town have been eliminated or nothing can prevent this from occurring.

The only way for scum to win at 2:2 is if TvK is dead and they vote no-lynch before a vote on one of them is placed.

Can someone check my math/assumptions?

[PeregrineV]

I'm a little hesitant in all this.
My problems:

Shotgun with the hammer without claim, and knowing the tracker could be out there. And lack of playing.
But, he seems like the easiest mislynch on the planet.

Vijay was Last Survivor's final lynch choice for today. LS being town, I know his read was sincere.
But, I get the least scummiest vibes from Vijay. Mostly because

Jal and LS were back and forth all day1.
But, Jal is visibly quiet day2 and has even less to say today.

SirBastion and LS were back and forth all day2.
But, Gen_Wolf came across as town in his play and his claim.

[PeregrineV]

Just keep in mind 517 when the new day starts.

Vote: drshotgun

[PeregrineV]

@Bastion- glanced over your big post, but haven't really gone through your scenarios. Game theory calls for no lynch, but would rather have a full day of discussion first.

[PeregrineV]

Jal
Sir Bastion
Vijay

[PeregrineV]

interesting.

Well do you guys want to talk about something or just get to the no lynch vote?

I still want to look over stuff before ending the day.

[PeregrineV]

VOTE: No lynch

[PeregrineV]

Sorry on tablet?

[PeregrineV]

I was hoping to be killed, so haven't read back yet.

Saying you would never have killed the guy who was killed means nothing.

Currently leaning you=scum.

[PeregrineV]

Actually, it does.

By the way, why did you think you had any chance of being killed last night?

Why wouldn't I be killed? You never even considered it?

[PeregrineV]

You seemed convinced you were going to be killed last night. Why did you feel that way?

573

[PeregrineV]

You seemed convinced you were going to be killed last night. Why did you feel that way?

573

Thanks for repeatedly not answering the question.

Oh, by the way: Have you had the chance to read the game yet? I know it's only been almost 2 weeks since you said you wanted to.

I'll make a big post later today.

Interesting how you think I haven't answered the question when I've answered both questions both times, and didn't say anything about you changing the question.

No, I haven't since I'm on vacation from work (where I'm on a computer all day) and don't get on as much from home. I have a gut read and want to check some specific things, but I'll probably do it in the next few days.

[PeregrineV]

Prod received, but will be gone this weekend.

@Rach- V/LA until Monday 13th.

[PeregrineV]

My initial was Jal was scum, because of the activity decrease and the sincerity of the Gen_Wolf claim early game.

However, unless Jal is trolling, he's probably not scum, since he would have hammered. That makes it Bastion.

Vote: Bastion

[PeregrineV]

That's all ya got, PV?

Most of it was why you were scum over Bastion. But, it wouldn't make sense at this point, unless you are trolling for some reason.

Are you looking for something in particular?

[PeregrineV]

@Jal-
I was going to come back and tell Bastion to look at day 1 Jal- the first 30 posts in ISO. And then compare it to day 2 Jal, the next 15 posts. There is a huge difference, and one I see in scum a lot of times after a busy day1 and a mislynch. They tone down their activity to move the spotlight off of them.

And this is without even delving into the actual content of those posts. But, as mentioned twice before, that would be presenting a case for scum Jal. Which, as mentioned twice before, would be highly unlikely given the fact that you could have already hammered and ended the game.

So, I ask again, what are you looking for?

[PeregrineV]

It wouldn't have mattered what Peregrine would have argued.

This was apparent. I really should have came in and hard voted Jal, then come back with the "reasons". Bastion getting first vote in and Jal not hammering totally flipped the dynamics, since Jal would, as scum, had to have hammered (unless he was trolling).

Once the dynamics flipped, there wouldn't be a point in making a case against Bastion.

Here's the mafia QT: http://preview.quicktopic.com/47/H/ZZqDbRCdt3YF

The logic behind Om-kill was his crumb of tracker.

The JK of shotgun was luck on TVK's part. I was going to do the kill, since I figured he wouldn't JK me 2 nights in a row, but :shrug:.

[PeregrineV]

And the Shotgun hammer of LS was just plain scummy.

[PeregrineV]

And the Shotgun hammer of LS was just plain scummy.

But good for our team...