Open 429: True Love (Game Over)

[TeChNoWC]

Vote: Venmar

- MY OBVSCUM PARTNER!!! MUWWAHAHAHAH!!

@Om: I don't like the idea of outting the lover pairs. I've done some reading leading into this setup (examples given on the wiki); massclaims were a common practice and they all ended in maf victories.

[TeChNoWC]

Ok, reading the second page now.

[TeChNoWC]

Bitmap's reasoning is epically good. I had all the same thoughts pregame. Gonna stick him in the town pile.

Venmar townslip in post 39. Could be faked but I believe it. Leaning town.

Om, what is with the Bitmap vote? What is your opinion on your partner?

[TeChNoWC]

Because if we're going to lynch someone, we need to know who else we're lynching with them. This is basically the main reason behind it.

This is terribad. So say player A and player B are paired. Player A looks super scummy. Player B looks super towny.

Better yet, let's ramp it up and even say Player B is somehow mystically conftown.

You are then going to umm and arrh about lynching Player A because you want to keep Player B alive?

I don't see how knowing who else will die will help us other then make us more hesitant to lynch a scum when we think their partner could be town. One of them always will be. We will ALWAYS lose a townie when we kill a scum.

[TeChNoWC]

No no, that's not what I said.

You want to know who is going to die when we lynch a scummy. Why? I said, a towny will ALWAYS die when a lynch is performed, so it doesn't matter who is on the other side of the coin.

On second thought though, I could see a potential benefit if both people were heavily suspected as scum (because they can't both be scum). Depending on the reasons why they are suspected (buddying each other, but in this case they would simply claim); and if this isn't the case, and they are scummy for various tells, then it's great to lynch one; better chances of hitting scum. Benefit I can see is in this scenario we would be more inclined to go through with the lynch. Still though, it's minor and will only encourage quicklynches ('I hate em both, let's go!').

You didn't answer my other question. Why the vote on Bit?

[TeChNoWC]

Question: I thought I noticed you in a queue earlier as a hydra with Bit. So I am guessing you know him well/are coaching him. I've noticed his playstyle improving a lot since he first came on the scene (can't comment ongoing game).

Has he got any completed games? Do you know his scum/town traits?

Because my gut is telling me the exact opposite.

[TeChNoWC]

This ^^.

I think all of Om/Venmar/Bit are town.

At the moment the active lurkers bother me, namely PMyst.

P, you got any ideas on who is scum/town? Your first post to me sounded like an attempt to be diplomatic, with no real weigh in on the discussion. Now you seem to be discussing a bit of setup, but no scumhunting/opinions on the current argument. Thoughts please, contribute.

Similar goes for City. Next post I want thoughts on who is scum etc.

PoE tells me scum is likely in PMyst, City, Junpei, TAM; in ascending order from scum to town.

I fully get Bitmap's paranoia. And while I worry P's quicklynch paranoia is an attempt to look towny, I agree with wholeheartedly. Today is gonna be nice and slow, peoples. Let's just be careful with the votes, shall we.

Anyway, park my vote here for now

Unvote
Vote: PMysterious

[TeChNoWC]

Ah Ven, gotta run to uni, but would love to dialogue with you.

If I am rushing you can almost bet I am scum or town trying something new + apathetic about the game.

He doesn't take a stance. He doesn't give content. Should we massclaim? No opinion is given, only a statement that we could all sort of nod our heads at and say 'aye, that sounds good'.

Plus he still hasn't given reads. I would like to hear more from him. Push for content is the goal atm.

Gotta run, sorry bro. Good to be in a game with you again though.

[TeChNoWC]

PMyst, who is scum? Post already.

[TeChNoWC]

Looks like Venmar is trying to give control to Om. Possible scumteam?

Do you think scum-Venmar would be pushing a lynch on town-Snake, which would end in suiciding scum-Om on D1? This seems silly to me. It's like bussing without the cred. One thing we can assume is likely is that a scummy would NOT try and get the partner of his scumpartner lynched D1; if anything they would only ever very lightly bus them. Not bandwagon. scum-Venmar would be more likely to vote for scum-Om, so he would get the cred. Buddying Om, lynching you and then Om flipping scum would be utterly stupid.

townslip seem genuine.

That wasn't the townslip. You paying attention?

I remembered wrongly- I just ISOd the game we had and he's just as relaxed at the start of the game. We had an argument about whether another players reaction to a claim was scummy on D2 and I wanted Tech lynched from then so I'm probably comparing him to his stubbornness at that point in the game. Neutral

Actually no, you were extremely on the money with your last comment; only problem is it isn't much of a towntell. I played the 'uppity semi-experienced semi-noob towny apprentice to Agar' that game. 'Padawan', he called me. Ha. And it NEARLY paid off.

@Techno - I find that really harsh to say about PMysterious. Your reasoning can literally be pinned on anyone in the game who made their first post. I can't really see why you expected someone's FIRST post to be as detailed and contributive as you were hoping it to be. Seems more like a easy target to nitpick from the crowd, no offense Techno, just not seeing what you got going for PM.

I find it a bit harsh that you are pushing Snake for reads and not PMyst. Why does PMyst get a free ticket? To be honest, City is contributing more.
I had them both as gut and PoE. What are your thoughts on PMyst? What do you think about his first post? Nothing?

Everyone took a stance with the claim issue. I felt PMyst was trying to say as little as possible to upset as few people as possible. It's a small lead, but it is early D1.

P, why is Om scum? Have you played with him before?

[TeChNoWC]

@PMyst:

pressure flake? Prod dodging? Reads please. Get involved please.

Who is scum? Why is Om scum? Have you played with Om before? Have you read up on his meta? (Some has already been provided, eg his link on the lover game).

What are your thoughts on City, specifically? Is Ven scum with Om? What do you think about the townslip?

[TeChNoWC]

PMysterious, since you seem to be having trouble engaging with this game, please answer the above questions ^ as a starting point

also:

Unvote: Venmar
Vote: PMyst

and mod, two things:
1. You had me voting both Venmar and PMyst at the sametime. Was this an error or is there doublevoting?
2. Your VC was in black. Can you do it in colour please? Cheers

[TeChNoWC]

Lol.
Both parts of a lover pair are scum.
Everyone else is town.
Except one null read.


Yep, great town play right there.

This ^^

Plus he said 'Om is 100% scum'

which means City CANNOT be scum, lol.

Next, I want City's opinions on PM.

No Om, we are not ending this day just yet. We need more input for tommorrow.

Venmar, now that you have outted your pair, I would like to know something very crucial; how often has PMyst posted in the QT? What has he said? Pretend for a moment you haven't ready ANY of the gamestate yet. what would your gutread be on PM if this were the case (ie does he look scummy in the QT basically). Anything different in the QT from here?

Om, nice gambit

[TeChNoWC]

I honestly think Om is 100% scum. Om has really thrown me off my town groove because of his suspicious acts.

Explain this.

Waiting on those read explanations please. Also, how the fuck City could be scum when Om (you reckon) is defo scum.

[TeChNoWC]

PMyst town game:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=22693

I thought since the game just finished, it could be of some use.

A quick scan of this game suggests PMyst could be town. His play is SOMEWHAT similar here to there.

I still think there are some differences. At this stage I'm not going to shed light on those differences (gives him opportunity to adapt), but simply wait for more input from him. It's not telling enough with the limited input. He seemed to active lurk a lot in that game, though.

[TeChNoWC]

Om, a hypothetical, if you will.

Say support for a City lynch grows today, and you two get lynched. Who would you want to see get lynched next, out of PMyst and Bit, if:
1. CitySnake flips scum
2. CitySnake flips town

Om makes a good case on Bit. A PMyst/Bit scumteam is possible; but P is at the centre of all this. His 'leaning scum' read on City comes off as a bus to me.
However, what irks me as well, is Om's quick deflection away from a City lynch when City starts pushing it.

I'm still assuming Om-town here because of meta. Darn it guys, this was meant to be an easy metawin, where I could parade meta as the greatest scumhunting tool after a perfect town win. Meta suggests P MIGHT be town. Urgh. We need more posts.

I still think P would be leaning my strongest scumread atm. But here is where my earlier argument comes into play; Venmar's creeped up to probably my strongest townread, so with that assumption it makes it more likely that a P lynch will end in a doubletown flip.

Still, with P being at the centre of two very possible scumteams, I think he is the best lynch.

I will pose the same to Venmar.

@Venmar: If we lynch P today, who should we lynch tommorrow if:
1. P flips scum
2. P flips town

Also if possible, I don't want a lynch until Junpei gets back. He needs to chime in with some ideas. I don't like the idea of him being unreadable.

Pedit: reading

[TeChNoWC]

Secondly, that's a whole load of WIFOM. If your attack wasn't so tunneled, you would of realized Techno had also been focusing on PMyst lately. This purely due to getting information out of PMyst as he had said very little the past week.

You're just tunneling me to get rid of me early.

Bit, who do you think Om would rather get rid of (if this were the case); me, or you?

No cockiness intended. Answer however you feel appropriate.

Pedit: Well so far you've given us very little information at all, and you still haven't answered the questions I posed.

[TeChNoWC]

@Om: If City flips town and then Bit flips town, we would have lost unless one of their partners was scum.

Exactly why I think you need to be thinking ahead more.

[TeChNoWC]

- I think this more of sounds like you don't want me to die and avoid lynching PMysterious just for that fact. Just because i am a townread doesn't mean PMsyterious cannot be a scum read. My alignment is not linked to PMysterious's.

Yeah, call me wanting you to be in the game longer than a D1 lynch

But also, if you are extremely town that limits the odds of us catching scum by lynching P (in my eyes).

Don't worry though; it's an internal battle but I won't let it stop me lynching P if I feel it necessary (and at this stage it looks that way).

[TeChNoWC]

If this were a Night game with no claimed power roles on D1, I'd easily shoot Techno over Bitmap anyday.

Techno, are you able to look me in the eye and seriously say that if we lynch city and Bitmap, we won't get at least one scumflip?
Are you scum? Plz don't say yes, I won't believe you unless you say no.

I believe we would, but I don't trust my gut as much as you do. And you posed a hypothetical situation that couldn't exist unless we hit a scum in tandem; and I'm definitely not confident you would be a scum flak hit.

No.

[TeChNoWC]

Hang on hang on, did Bitmap just MAJORLY scumslip?

I've played nightless without scum daytalk. Nightless =/= scum daytalk.

Where did you get that idea, Bit?

Checking the rules.

[TeChNoWC]

You are scumpartners with _____. You may talk with them at any time .

There is daytalk.

[TeChNoWC]

^^^ haha, I don't think so.

Pedit: LOOOOOOL

Always fun playing with Om.

[TeChNoWC]

grrr too many pedits

[TeChNoWC]

Potatoes don't make babies like that.

[TeChNoWC]

Omg, Fluff. Only scum abuse fluff.

Is this experience based or did someone tell you this?

[TeChNoWC]

Anyway not true Venmar.

We fluffed like motherfuckers in 402. Fluffing happens more when people know each other. I like a bit of fluff every now and then, as long as it's not excessive.

[TeChNoWC]

Sarcasm goes a long way padawan. No but seriously, I don't like fluff all the time.

Bitmap, that question is like asking a Serial Killer if he blew up an entire building of 500 people and expect him to be all like: "HURR DURR YESSSSS I KILLED THEEEEEEM".

Some serial killers would.

Where the fuck did P go? He posted one 'please don't kill me I'll talk' post and left.

Anything in the QT, Venmar?

[TeChNoWC]

What the actual fuck.

[TeChNoWC]

What is so bad about fluff?

[TeChNoWC]

I like talking to Venmar.
I like talking to Om.
And I'm even starting to like conversing with you, Bit.

I wouldn't be in this game if it weren't for the playerlist.

Don't ruin this beautiful teaparty.

[TeChNoWC]

Fuck I can't rhyme it like Om.

[TeChNoWC]

P IS SCUM
LYNCH HIS BUM
CANT THINK OF ANYTHING ELSE
TECH IS COOL

[TeChNoWC]

When is Junpei back? How many days?

How many days til deadline?

[TeChNoWC]

I AM GREAT
FUCK YOU MATE
TAM IS HERE
THROW A SPEAR
I CAN HEAR
A FUCKING DEER

I've lost it.

pedit: sweet tunes biatch.

[TeChNoWC]

hahahahahaha mint.

Bedtime for me I think.

Om, if you will (since you do it best), post heaps of OMG GET IN HERE with bold and caps lock and big print telling P to contribute or die, per his promise. Kthanks.

Pedit: fuuuuuuck no. We should actually have a rap battle to decide the outcome of this game. Lovers are rap teams. LOLOLOL

[TeChNoWC]

@PMyst:

pressure flake? Prod dodging? Reads please. Get involved please.

Who is scum? Why is Om scum? Have you played with Om before? Have you read up on his meta? (Some has already been provided, eg his link on the lover game).

What are your thoughts on City, specifically? Is Ven scum with Om? What do you think about the townslip?

You answered some of these, but I want more detail, plus answers to the ones you didn't.

Also you said you would explain:
Why Om and Venmar are likely not scum (in your opinion)
Your reads

[TeChNoWC]

Venmar, you think TAM is scum?

scumteam read please.

[TeChNoWC]

TAM PM makes no sense. His posts don't look like bussing at all. If TAM is scum, I would say his push on PM is opportunistic. TAM scum would almost clear PM in my eyes.

TAM/Citysnake, likewise, but it makes more sense than TAM/PM, simply because he didn't push it as hard and he pushed it earlier, so it could be a bus.

I think TAM's likely partner would be Junpei if he were scum, with an outside shot on Bit. Basically I don't think it's anyone within the claimed block. His flip would actually be a telling flip, at least in my eyes; however, I get town by gut and meta. I disagree with your point on TAM meta. Yeah he seems to be posting SLIGHTLY less than he usually does as town, but I feel like this is exactly the same TAM that I know as town. Still, I'm only going off one game.

Pedit: Don't know if I should claim who my lover is yet or not. At the moment I am going to hold out.

[TeChNoWC]

Sooo, Techno do you think he is scum or no?

It's hard to answer this question without claiming. My reads are quite complex at the moment and suffice to say, I think the best way of me wittling it down is by grilling Junpei; and luckily, he is back.

Junpei, a few questions:

1. Is Om still scum after your rereads?
2. Is City town?
3. Why do you say 'hammer Om City' rather than simply Om?
4. What is your read on TAM?
5. What made you so convinced earlier of supposed scum-Om?

[TeChNoWC]

Any reasoning behind any of this?

Espeonage needs to post a vote count.

It's in my QT; it's minimal, but I will reveal if I end up claiming.

It seems to me you think Om is scum for a playstyle you don't like, rather than because you think he is scum.

Was Om town or scum when he played with you before?

I want to know what makes you think Om is scum from past where you VLA'd.

Why is TAM town?

[TeChNoWC]

And my other questions?

If you are so keen on an Om lynch, why don't you put some effort into convincing us?

[TeChNoWC]

This game is dying fast.

Junpei, respond please.
Venmar, keep pushing TAM. You were on to something I felt. No harm in discussion.

Om, why the (inferred) scumread on me all of a sudden? What's that handy ole gut of yours telling you? Who is scum?

Here's a little something I picked up from another game.

Everybody give a list of all the possible scumteams you think are viable, even if not heavily likely.
Then give a list of scumteams you think are very unlikely.

Reasons why are always good.

Also, please don't be smartarses and put yourself/your lover in the impossible scumpairings list that is a given.
And on that note, you don't have to include yourself (it's from your PoE, after all).

[TeChNoWC]

Everybody give a list of all the possible scumteams you think are viable, even if not heavily likely.
Then give a list of scumteams you think are very unlikely.

- Not answering this until a flip, my gut feels off about this post for some reason.

We did it in an ongoing game as town and fucked scum up the butthole.

I can't reference the game, you will just have to trust me/look through my ongoing games.

[TeChNoWC]

I came into this thread expecting to be lynched.

I am dissapoint.

I came into this thread expecting to see activity.

I am dissapoint.

[TeChNoWC]

I think it's about time that TAM's lover claims.

If TAM was lying his lover would claim and call him out on it.

If not there is no need for his lover to claim.

[TeChNoWC]

1. Om should definitely explain his townread on Venmar
2. In fact, Om should explain all his reads where gut is not the only factor
3. Junpei, what do you think of Ven then, if you feel scum-Om was buddying him?
4. Om's jump from town City to scum City to defo town City is terribad.

Om AND City, explain what's going on in your QT with as much detail as possible

5. City is using counterproductive logic I feel.
6. That being said, I'm definitely falling for both of their 'lynch me' routines. I'm worried at this point they might both flip town.
7. PMyst needs to contribute again. God.
8. OM, WHY ARE YOU ADVOCATING SELFLYNCH? IF YOU ARE TOWN PLEASE STOP. I would like to win bro, and if you feel both you and City are town, then say it and try harder. You are acting like you are the obvi only lynch when both TAM and PMyst are receiving heavy flak.
9. Where has everyone gone? And why are they reverting to one liners? Bitmap, why is Om scum? Venmar, why is Om town?

[TeChNoWC]

Techno, if you think we're both town, why don't you try getting everyone off our wagons?

I can't even remember my reasons for most of my early game reads, and I'm not prepared to go through the game again just to re-figure it out.

If we're scum, then just lynch us, if we're town, then get off our wagons. Everyone needs to stop pussyfooting around our lynch and pick a side.

Although frankly I want to be lynched really badly right now because it will damage Junpei's confidence >:D

That wasn't what I said though. I have a FEAR that both of you are town, but I'm nowhere near sold on the idea. In fact, City is fast becoming my preferred lynch option for a number of different factors. Just trying to work out if scum-City is bold enough to try to WIFOM town into thinking he is town with his very adamant 'lynch you and say nothing else' technique.

I don't like Junpei's tunneling though. I get the idea that he doesn't want to give other reads for some inane fear that it helps scum, but I think it helps scum-junpei more than it helps scum-someone else.

What's wrong with pussyfooting? Why is discussion bad?

Om who is scum. Gun to your head and you had to guess correctly to live, who is it.

[TeChNoWC]

Techno, if you think we're both town, why don't you try getting everyone off our wagons?

This statement should be directed at you a hell of a lot more than it should me. My understanding is you think both you and City will flip town, but you aren't saying anything to stop it.

[TeChNoWC]

No lynch until everyone gives their updated thoughts on Om/City. Junpei stop trying to deprive the town of reads + quicklynch. Not necessary.

Someone fucking unvote Om before there is a derphammer.

Pedit: NO.

[TeChNoWC]

You think you and City are both town/town? You want to self-hammer?

Dude, dafuq? If you do that and both turn up town i am not playing with you again.

THIS ^^^

Though a bit harsh on the "not playing with you again".

Om just man up and know you aren't totally deaded yet, and even if you are you should be helping town before you go, if you really are town.

Why do you want to cut conversation short anyway, Om? What possible gain is there, PARTICULARLY if you and City both flip town

[TeChNoWC]

How is it a peculiar reply? Yours in #407 was more peculiar, Junpei.

[TeChNoWC]

Yes, everyone should claim lovers Junpei.
I want to know who else is going to die when you get lynched. Bonus points if it's Bitmap or TAM who are also scumreads of mine.

Is this what is making you hesitate to vote Junpei?

[TeChNoWC]

You usually don't mind arguing, Om.

I see problems with both Om and Junpei's argument concerning this scumslip.

1. Junpei says it wasn't obvious, yet Venmar picked up on the lover pairs ages ago and Junpei didn't call him out on it.
2. Om says it was obvious, but his actions haven't really shown that to be the case IMO.
3. The only way it is a 'scumslip' (ie the only way Om could KNOW 100% who the loverpairs were) is if Om has a scumpartner among me/TAM/Junpei/Bitmap.
4. Om's original post didn't look like he was suggesting Bit/Junpei were a lover pair. I felt like Junpei pulled that out of his arse.
5. However, Om behaved like Junpei was correct in his analysis.

Which leads me to a question:

Om, when you wrote that post, did you believe a Junpei/Bitmap lover pair was pretty much the case?

[TeChNoWC]

No... your ISO doesn't suggest this and the actions of every other player in the game don't suggest this either.

Junpei seriously needs to explain why he hasn't jumped on Venmar for calling it out like yonks ago.

But Om gets tunneled, and smeared.

Suggests to me he isn't reading the thread properly.

[TeChNoWC]

Honestly, this looks like a Town vs Town argument. OmNom probably has a scum partner that is partners with PM. I say we either lynch me and PM or Omnom and City.

I am also going to assume Bitmap is lovers with Junpei, and Techno with TAM, simple because i see no arguments between the those pairs.

Vote: PMysterious

This is different than the sub conscious matter-of-fact truth factor that Om of the Nom held.

TeChNoWC did you really think Om of the Nom would answer no after spending a page and a half talking about how the answer is yes? You point 2 is pretty important here.

Yeah, you're right.

I think an Om/City lynch is the best lynch today.

I want to hear Venmar chime in first. Still, no one hammer until everyone has responded.

Before the day ends I want everyone to give their reads on both Om and City. Jun, you seem to be a fan of not giving reads but surely this is beneficial at this stage. I want to see where everyone stands on the lynch, no wishy washy bullshit.

Does anyone remember TAM having a suspicion on Om?

Pedit: I'm so undecided on you Om it's not funny. Fuck, I don't think I've ever been this ambivalent about a player.

[TeChNoWC]

@Junpei:
Well, I can't recall any from you other than Om is scum and TAM is town. And the TAM-town one was stupid.

It's pretty fucking important, actually.

[TeChNoWC]

Junpei, give me something.

If Om is scum, who is he scum with?

Why is it so darn awful not to share?

Again I say, it seems far more beneficial for scum-Junpei to not give reads than it would be for town-Junpei.

[TeChNoWC]

@Techno: If someone uses AtE when at L-1, what would you do?

I take into consideration the entire situation and don't quicklynch. I'll remind you of what happened in Newbie 1258, where absta was AtE and was town, and he nearly almost got lynched.

That being said, I've done some more thorough reading on Om's scum meta and I see some surprising corellations between his play there and hear. He is still vocal with gut, but less so than usual. He also tries to cut conversation short while being run up and even self-hammered.

Om, don't replace out.

Mod, don't replace him. He's being lynched today. The player replacing him will only be lynched. [/b]

Intent to hammer.

I want to hear from Venmar first.

[TeChNoWC]

Fun fact: If I hammer Om he will be the first player I have killed twice.

Om, if you are town I strongly apologise in advance. But part of me wanting to kill you is being unsure of City still, and this lynch is hell informative. It basically has to happen.

If you flip town, I give you my word to examine Junpei with extreme scrutiny tomorrow.

[TeChNoWC]

This is me posting to demonstrate that I don't take orders from VIs.

Btw, this was not necessary and I just lost a little bit of respect for you.

[TeChNoWC]

I think his replacing out is a null-if-not-slight-towntell.

But I am going to give you some reading material Ven, and see what you think. (If I can get my fucking computer to work I am just about to RAAAAAAAAAGE)

From your list of possible scumteams Venmar, it would suggest that my/TAM lynch is the most informative. However, I see a TAM/Pmyst and TAM/city as VERY unlikely. He jumped on them like no tomorrow after I mentioned it in the QT. Either TAM is town or he is scum trying to get an opportune mislynch on P or City, I see it no other way. In my opinion TAM could only be scum with Junpei or Bitmap.

[TeChNoWC]

Ok its literally going to take my computer forever to cut and paste and what not (I have too many pages open atm with this essay I'm doing) so do this:

1. Go to Open 418. Iso Potack.
2. Scroll through until you find a link. It should be before half way.
3. Click on the link.
4. Iso Om. He's scum here.
5. Tell me what you think.

Pedit: It's possible but the way things have panned out I see it as less and less likely. Also I still have to scrounge through my QT but I'm not sure his opinions on Om add up. Suffice to say if TAM is scum, he won't be getting ANY points for the Om lynch if Om flips town, another reason I wanted everyone to post before the lynch on their opinion on Om (but it's ok he decided to post in the QT and not here )

TAM/P would be SLIIIIIIIIGHTLY believable but TAM/Om or City is just not the case IMO.

[TeChNoWC]

Wait what? Ven, be thorough. Why would you want to limit your knowledge of Om's playstyle?

I was of the exact same impression until I read his scummeta properly. It still has overlaps with his townplay but it's much more like this than it is games like mini 1332 and open 418.

I can't see anyone else being viable today. I don't want to lynch anyone else. I'm suspicious of a TAM/Junpei scumteam, but it's complete speculation at this point.

City gives me scumvibes based off his last towngame, Om is hard to read but a lot of his actions match up to his scum meta after reread.

Independent of my Junpei/TAM hypothesis is these two cronies staring us straight in the face.

Pedit: well yeah, but you still lost a bit of it.
And yes. Venmar, it's completely illogical, and actually a bit scummy.

[TeChNoWC]

I'm hammering. I have my information. Plus we can still keep talking until the mod gets in here (although I desperately need to finish this essay )

Vote: Om of the Nom

[TeChNoWC]

I hate essays. I find no use for english except giving me mediocre grades.

I actually like the literary content of this essay. One of the plays that I read for it was fucking brilliant.

and just to make sure that went through properly

Unvote
Vote: Om of the Nom

[TeChNoWC]

@Mod: Om wasn't voting himself, he unvoted and voted Junpei.

[TeChNoWC]

So no hammer?

[TeChNoWC]

Actually I think it still is.

Bitmap voted him.

So, PM, Junpei, CitySnake, Bitmap and Techno = lynch

[TeChNoWC]

OMFG I WANNA SEE THE FLIP.'

City, are you town or scum? You might as well say now since you deaded.
Om, are you town or scum? You might as well say now since you deaded.

[TeChNoWC]

That's fucking it.

I had a whole page written up about lynch TAM lynch Junpei and why (especially TAM) but my FUCKING computer decided to fritz again.

I originally thought TAM was town because he seemed exactly the same as 418. But now, he is posting less, being hell opportunistic (mostly so in the QT) and parroting my reads.

God, this game.

TAM if you are town and want to win, I implore you to start contributing more.

Vote: TAM

TAM is scum, and Junpei with him. When TAM flips scum lynch the Junpei/Bitmap pair tomorrow please Ven and Bit.

Venmar and Bit are town. I know I am town. PM is the only loose end here I am worried about but he seems to play like this town or scum so I can't figure it out. Gut + QT tells me TAM/Junpei. I'm fairly certain of TAM scum at this point.

TAM AND JUNPEI I WOULD LIKE SCUM META.

Pedit: these are my thoughts bit, plus my first ever mylo, believe it or not. We are lynching either my pair or your pair today. Venmar/Pmyst live another day.

[TeChNoWC]

lylo*

[TeChNoWC]

Actually, technically it's not lylo because we could still lynch town (technically), just not a town double.

[TeChNoWC]

TAM is town because I don't have any reason to suspect he is mafia.

This has to be the worst reason I have ever seen stated as to why someone is town.

[TeChNoWC]

Bitmap don't go anywhere I'll be back in like ten minutes.

TAM post, I see you in the thread. Thoughts please, who is scum. And let me remind you I know everything youve said in the QT.

Pedit: Id like the town game. Don't worry about scum, I'll go through your posts and find it.

[TeChNoWC]

TAM, the opportunism VAGUELY rings true of 418; I palmed it off initially as you being thoughtful (two dichotomies). Why didn't you push Junpei yesterday? You had a perfect chance around the Om lynch, he was heaps active at that stage and you were even on at the time (I know because you posted in the QT). Also in the QT you said that you were eager to get some reads out of Junpei or something to that affect, and yet nothing. And now we are two townies down.

Tell me TAM, am I still town?

[TeChNoWC]

Junpei I want a full T/S list and why and no bullshit. I can't see ANY benefit in not giving it now. It's practically lylo and I can't see any benefit in town-Junpei not being completely transparent.

Pedit: No worries bro. But tomorrow, I want full reads and why.

[TeChNoWC]

TAM what is the scumteam?
Is it Pmyst Junpei?
Who would you be more willing to lynch today out of them?
What do you think of me/bit/venmar?
Why?
Why?
Why on all

[TeChNoWC]

Ven, I'm still not understanding your reasoning on Bit/Junpei town. Recap please?

[TeChNoWC]

This one is hard. The conflict between OmNom suggest they are NOT scum. Their arguments between OmNom and Bitmap, as well as with Junpei, makes me think a OmNom / Bitmap or Junpei team is unlikely.

This is what you provided, and doesn't make sense.

Basically you were saying at that stage that you thought Om was town, but were working on the idea that Bit and Junpei are town because they could not be scum with Om?

And secondly, Om DEFINITELY isn't scum as we now all know, so how are they at all clear? If anything, their fight with Om is a SCUMTELL, since they wanted to get a townie lynched (that's if we are to assume one way or the other).

Personally I don't see anything to suggest Junpei-town, other than this new Bit suspicion. Tunneled a townie, unwilling to provide reads (keeping his options open), pushed for a quicklynch on a townie, called TAM town because he had no reason to suspect him but couldn't be bothered to analyse the slot, didn't call out his suspected scumminess on Bit yesterday. That doesn't look town to me.

Ven,
Why should we lynch P?
Why should we lynch me?
(I have your reasoning on TAM)

[TeChNoWC]

Notice also that both Junpei and TAM are COMPLETELY unwilling to critique me or shed me in a scummy light?

They are acting like I am conftown, because I am attached to a scumpartner.

[TeChNoWC]

PMyst reads please.

[TeChNoWC]

Tech, I haven't even reached you in my Iso...

Who knows I might find you completely scummy after that's done.

Lol.

Why would an ISO 360 your opinion on me (which you stated in the QT that I was town) when you have been conversing with me more intensely than any other player here? You should have a feel for my alignment above anyone else.

[TeChNoWC]

That leaves TAM, Techno, and PM. It really doesn't matter which of the two is scum, one of them and PM are the likely scumteam.

If this is true, then you should be voting PM, because by your PoE he is defo scum.

I'll break it down:

You (supposedly) know you are town.
You think Bit is town.
You think Junpei is town.
You think one of tech/TAM is scum and the other, obviously, town.

Thus, PMYST WOULD HAVE TO BE SCUM BY POE.

[TeChNoWC]

God this game. I want everyone to read all of my posts and respond to every point I have addressed to them.

I don't think I've ever been more frustrated in a game of mafia.

TAM, I have outstanding questions not answered.
Venmar, I have outstanding questions not answered.
Junpei, I have outstanding questions not answered.
PMyst, I have outstanding questions not answered.

Bitmap gets a gold star.

[TeChNoWC]

What is there not to get? The first bolded part made me just laugh out loud because it made no sense. Look at back at the early arguments OmNom had with Bitmap, and then look at his arguments with Junpei. If you look at them, you can clearly see that they are a Town vs Town debate. The attitude Junpei uses to attack OmNom is really aggressive, and he doesn't drop his guns, while OmNom does the same. How often do you see scum vs town debates like that? Never. If Junpei was bussing, then idk, but at the very least his pair should go tomorrow, not day. Then the underlined sentence is just ridiculous, and you cant be serious that you are going to use that to justify anything?

I can throw the same blame on everyone on the OmNom wagon and call them scum for wanting to get him lynched

, you can call me scum for wanting to lynch CitySnake. That comment holds no water, and I am surprised you made that comment.

I thought you would try and throw this back in my face.

Of course you can, that wasn't my point. YOU are the one calling them town based on this reasoning; I am not calling them scum for this reasoning (though Junpei's tunneling, yes).

Why don't you stop false-dichotomy critiquing me and explain why Junpei and Bit are town? Because you know what that sort of blatant statement reads to me? You don't have any defence of scum-buddy Junpei/Bitmap, but you wanna push a TAM/Tech lynch and get a perfect maf victory.

Luckily I predict this is not the case.

The bolded parts are not reasons to call him scum. You are using knowledge of the flip to blame him for doing something he didn't know he was. None of us knew if OmNom and CitySnake were town, I though Om was town and City was scum, Junpei thought Om was scum, so did you, so what gives?

Because none of us tunneled Om, except for Junpei and PM. And PM has contributed barely anything, so it's hard to analyse that as a scumtell for him.

How is tunneling not scummy? Explain.

- Not necessarily. If you and TAM are both somewhat likely to flip scum, I would prefer to bet my money on a lynch where I think either of the partners could flip scum. You are saying I should lynch PM because she is in my lover group and since i KNOW I am town, she is probably not. It's a fair assumption, but again, I know i am town, and I would rather aim at a pair where the possibility of a scum flip isn't just 50% but over 50%. Not to mention you seemed to want to lynch TAM/You in the beginning of this day, your 180 turn to make me change my course to PM is very interesting.

This is actually a good point and I concede to you on that one.

@Ven: 'town on town' is a weak defence. If that's how you feel, it's basically a gutread. I don't see any statistics that suggest big arguments are usually town dominated. Look at mini 1332, me and Om absolutely cluttered the thread with a massive argument and I was scum. Means nothing. Junpei's tactic makes perfect sense as scum in a setup like this. Bussing is deadly, perfect wins are easier. Limiting reads is great for scum in this setup, IMO.

Ven, this is where I stand on today. Kill TAM leading to my death, then when I flip town run with my reads please. I don't see scum as anyone but PM/TAM/Junpei, with PM being a lose end. If you can get an accurate read on PM tommorrow; well, put Junpei and him on the chopping block and I hope and pray you pick Junpei, because that's the way I am leaning.

If you give me my word you will rethink your read on Junpei tommorrow I am happy for a TAM lynch.

[TeChNoWC]

ou're recent questions and posts were actually a bit off in my opinion

Nothing is off about what I have said. I am keeping this game alive. Everybody else is going at lengths to active lurk and share minimal content (except for you, but I wish even you would contribute more), yet I am trying to push everyone to contribute with few results.

Point to everything that makes me look like scum. Let's bust this game open, shall we.

Show me that anger that you (supposedly) had over the Om lynch.

[TeChNoWC]

@Ven: I'm attempting to explain how I find Junpei's tunneling scummy, particularly in this setup.

In a setup like this, I personally would think bussing takes a backseat. Launching at double-town pairs + providing minimal content so you are hard to lynch seems like the best play for scum, IMO (as long as they can pull it off). I think scum-Junpei is pulling it off beautifully. The only thing that throws a spanner in the works and makes me think Junpei MIGHT be town is his scumread on his lover partner. Though, I desperately want Junpei to respond with his fulls thoughts and reads etc.

Ven, in this setup I think the onus is more on explaining why you think a pair is town/town even more so over why you think someone is scum. It's a bold claim that can lead to disastrous results if incorrect. In this setup, having an incorrect scumread to lynch can still be beneficial if their partner flips scum. Town/town partner reads are more complex and dangerous.

And I don't think you are mafia. I am just letting you know I saw a viable way that you are, and I want to know what is with the townreads + the defence of anything Junpei/Bitmap. Can you not see how that looks like you and Junpei/Bitmap are scum together? If you were scum right now, you would likely want to towntell your buddy pair for an easy win.

At this stage I feel like all of TAM, Junpei and P could all be partners together. The scumreads today show weak attempts at pushing and I need more content. I'm leaning TAM/Junpei more though.

[TeChNoWC]

@Ven: If PM is scum, then me and TAM are the townpair. TAM/Pmyst scumteam now very unlikely.

Junpei needs to talk a hell of a lot more. Or be replaced. If he is scum and wins for lurking, I'll bitch like crazy.

Unvote
Vote: Junpei

TALK.

[TeChNoWC]

Ven, I'm not screwing with your head, I just disagree with you and want you to reconsider your position on Junpei/Bitmap.

I really can't see how anyone would think Junpei was town unless it was some kind of gutread (or he said something to Bit in the QT).

Bit, that would be awesome, but you can't quote it. Just summarize.

Junpei needs to contribute more before this day ends.

If TAM is scum Ven, Pmyst is pretty much conftown. Pmyst wants to lynch me and TAM, won't give strong reads as to why, and TAM said he was going to push Junpei today and he was his top suspect, but now he is pushing a Pmyst/Venmar lynch.

Either me and TAM are the townpair or you and Pmyst are, it's simple. Lynch Junpei/Bitmap. If no one listens to me I will scream.

Om was after Bitmap, Junpei defended Bitmap and pushed an Om lynch. Now all of a sudden 'Bitmap is scum (weakread)'
TAM has continually voiced concern over Junpei but won't push him and won't vote him.
TAM was hell loving the Om/City lynch and said it would clear up reads for him, but now he seems more confused than ever for who to vote, and seems to have been waiting for an opportunity to quickly jump on Pmyst.
Pmyst wants a TAM/techno lynch, and he never has complicated reads/thought processes. He doesn't bus. He's not bussing. He either genuinely thinks TAM is scum, or he is scum and me and TAM are the last townpair. I've been reading his meta, check it out if you don't believe me.

It doesn't get any clearer. One of Junpei/Bitmap is 99.9999999% scum.

[TeChNoWC]

^ check the rules, but I am pretty sure you can't copy/paste conversations. Just do a summary.

[TeChNoWC]

Flawed how?

More vague distancing.

The only thing that suggests Junpei could be town in any of that is the 'townslip'. But it's not conclusive at all, and scum-Junpei would definitely have reason to sus you out and then back off communicating with you, particularly by gaining your trust with the slip thing.

[TeChNoWC]

says that he doesn't want to talk to possible scum and waste effort.

This is also INCREDIBLY bad logic.

If talking to possible scum is bad play, then we wouldn't even have discussion. Heck, we wouldn't even have mafia as a game. The ONLY way town can win is by conversing with possibl scum. We do it EVERY FUCKING GAME.

If Junpei was town and thought Bit was scum, he should be conversing with him.

If Junpei is scum and knows Bit is town, he would want to find a way to limit the discussion.

[TeChNoWC]

I still think lynch Junpei simply because it's still slightly possible the scumteam is Pmyst/Junpei.

However, pressure on both is good. Let's see what Junpei has to say not only about his QT/read on Bit, but what he thinks about TAM now.

[TeChNoWC]

If I was scum, my partner would be Pmyst or venmar most likely.

Although I have a very nasty habit of superbussing, so it could also be Junpei.

The possible scumpairs are:

TAM/Junpei - most likely
Pmyst/Junpei - could see it happening
Venmar/Junpei - really really really don't think so though

Ergo sum lynch Junpei.

[TeChNoWC]

Nah, we lynch TAM and Techno today.

How sold are you on Pmyst town really?

Let's test the Pmyst/Junpei scumteam theory.

Unvote
Vote: TAM

Watch and learn.

[TeChNoWC]

and if he flipped scum I would probably just jump off a cliff and have to rethink a lot of things.

And if you are scum going for a perfect victory, I will do likewise.

[TeChNoWC]

If you lynch me, you WILL lose.

Pmyst if you were anyone else I would take this comment as conftowning TAM.

[TeChNoWC]

Na fuck this everyone lynch Junpei.

You want to lynch TAM first because of paranoia that I am scum. Bad play.

Am I scum or am I town? Make your decision.

This is exactly what I was talking about at the beginning of the game, and could be the death of us.

Also Ven you are doing it again. Assuming someone is town because meta suggests they COULD be. What happened to thinking Pmyst was scum? Gone already? I can see your thought process completely. You were undecided about Pmyst. Now you feel TAM/Junpei is likely so your reasons to think Pmyst is town become stronger. Well, I've been reading Pmyst's scumgames and this could be either town or scum Pmyst. Stop putting all your eggs in one basket.

Realise already that lynching Junpei is the best move, unless you can tell me how TAM and Pmyst could possibly be scum together. Junpei is the connector piece here, and the safest lynch.

Unvote
Vote: Junpei

TAM if you are town vote Junpei right now. You already told me you thought he was scum by gut.

Pedit: and you said you thought the scumteam was Pmyst/City. Well, it aint. Kill Junpei.

[TeChNoWC]

TAM if you were being true to what you made your thoughtprocesses out to be you would be voting the Junpei/Bitmap pair atm.

I don't care anymore, lynch either. I'm going to be so fucking pissed off if we lose though and will rage more than ever in my life.

[TeChNoWC]

TAM, what am I, town or scum? I just want your gut impression, I'm not looking for your thought after a readthrough on me.

The answer to this question should tell me a lot.

[TeChNoWC]

It's annoying. Half the players are unwilling to spend time in the thread.

You know what? TAM is scum. From what I can gather he thinks I am town, and yet if he were town then, he would presume that lynching our pair would lose us the game.

My head is still telling me to do this the proper way and wait for Junpei to respond but I am pretty sold. Junpei and TAM are scum.

[TeChNoWC]

This game is kind of depressing.

Mostly my fault.

I really want to win this game and I am very invested in it, but no one else seems to be. I haven't won a game in like a century and I constantly lose for stupid reasons, usually because my team decides to go and give up (or I make some stupid little mistake that has a huge impact, like not reading the first page in Newbie 1258 ).

Other than that, my scumgames I get partners that get themselves lynched D1, and my town games people tunnel and don't listen to me.

I'm not saying that's exactly what's happening here, but I just wish people would contribute more. If I lose yet another game because people couldn't be bothered to play or consider all angles then I'll be royally pissed.

TAM if you are town and we lose I will be slightly angry with you.
Pmyst if you are town and we lose I will be slightly angry with you.
Junpei if you are town and we lose I will be slightly angry with you. Albeit I realise you might have had no access earlier but it seems you have access now so what's the excuse.

[TeChNoWC]

Pretty confident. If he isn't, I don't know what the hell is going on in this game. He has to be scum with either Pmyst or TAM.

The last and final possibility I didn't consider is that you and Ven are scum together, but if that is the case I'll go die in a big hole, because you are as town as they come and I've seen NOTHING to suggest you could be scheming together.

[TeChNoWC]

I don't dislike you at all. I just said I would be a bit pissed off.

In the words of Chris Turk "I don't disdain you!! It's quite the opposite. I DAIN you."

If that is the case (that you are trying not to defend yourself and you are town), all I will say to that is don't do it in mylo. Go bat shit crazy.

[TeChNoWC]

The fact no one has really train pushed the TAM/Techno lynch makes me more confident there is scum in it. On the other hand, Techno was all like " Yeah Man, let's lynch TAM today " to being all like " No fuck this, Junpei is dying today ".

I'm not moving my vote, my gut is telling me not to.

Dude, from my perspective, there has been so much resistance to the Junpei lynch that I am sure HE is scum. The most resistance I am seeing is coming from you, even though you called out Junpei as scum.

I on the other hand trust myself to make the right decision tomorrow (as nasty as that sounds, but I am putting more effort into this game than any other), and more than that I am more confident now in scum-Junpei than scum-TAM, and do you really want to hand possible scum-Pmyst a perfect mafia victory? That would just be swell for the record sheet.

[TeChNoWC]

" Yeah Man, let's lynch TAM today " to being all like " No fuck this, Junpei is dying today ".

If you want to get to the bottom of it, figure out if I am scum or not, because this game practically hinges on whether you feel you can trust me or not.

However, I trust your judgement on scum-TAM as likely being the case but if you decide I am town after all and for some reason feel more confident in a TAM lynch then show me why he should die over Junpei, because atm we could lose because you don't like the way I changed my opinion.

[TeChNoWC]

Mod please prod Junpei or replace him.

Pmyst I want your opinion on a Junpei lynch.

[TeChNoWC]

Junpei is pretty much confscum, unless there is a TAM/Bitmap scumteam. And that would be absurd for Bit-scum to place an L-1 on his own lynch. I'll show you why Junpei is scum.

If Junpei is town, then scum is amongst TAM/techno/bitmap/pmyst/venmar, yes? Two of them would be.

At this point scum can insta-hammer and win the game if bit/junpei are a townpair. Suffice to say, the lack of an instahammer suggests they aren't a townpair. There are only two ways this is possible now:
1. Two scum are on the wagon
2. No scum have come into the thread yet since Bit's vote.

Bit's vote isn't an attempt at instahammer because if he is scum then he isn't part of a double townpair logic logic.

So, if two scum are on the wagon, it would be amongst me/TAM/Bit. Me and TAm can't be scum together, leaving only two possibilities
1. TAM/Bitmap scum
2. tech/Bitmap scum

Meaning Bit would HAVE to be scum (if Junpei is town), with the lack of instahammer. And I find it absurd that scum-Bitmap would leave himself open for a derp hammer or even a likely calculated hammer. Either way, scum is amongst Bit/Junpei and it is not a townpair.

Someone hammer already.

[TeChNoWC]

If Techno is scum, I will forever worship him in future games

Right now I want to be scum

But seriously Ven I've been thinking over this and you need to make a decision on your reads. Me and TAM can't both be scum; one minute you are saying TAM and Junpei are the two most likely scum and the next you make out it is me and TAM.

If you decide TAM is the likely scum, then you should be by PoE considering me town and trusting me. Distrusting both of us is not doing you or the rest of town any favours.

Also, look over my logic and think about it long and hard. I know for a fact now that scum has had an opportunity to quickhammer if they are off the wagon so my logic is basically 100% foolproof. Guaranteed, Bitmap and Junpei CANNOT be a townpair.

[TeChNoWC]

And if I am wrong Ven, I will apologise to you like never before and be extremely extremely extremely extremely sorry.

[TeChNoWC]

You are one player who usually has very accurate gutreads mid-late game so again I'm sorry if I have pushed you offcourse and TAM is scum.

Fuck, I'll be literally gutted.

Pedit: I KNEW IT WASN'T A TOWNPAIR. But seriously you fucked with my head Bit. I should have listened to Om. God, I was so set on it being Junpei. I thought it was like 0.5% chance you.

Suffice to say, that L-1 vote just hammered home my belief you were town. I think that was a bad move for you as scum, as it confirmed to me you guys weren't a townpair.

[TeChNoWC]

I was still right about my townpair logic at least.

Urgh, I have no idea. But it's between TAM and Pmyst for sure. I'm thinking TAM.

[TeChNoWC]

I will most likely concede to your gutread here and go TAM seeing as I've had my moment with the Bit/Junpei lynch (even if I was fairly off, haha).

OM IM SORRY I DIDNT LISTEN TO YOU, BUT I PUSHED LIKE I SAID I WOULD

Anyway no voting yet til we see the flip and here some final thoughts from Pmyst and TAM.

Pedit: yup.

[TeChNoWC]

Venmar/Techno team of win again. Absolutely love it.

If we nail last scum I will proclaim us awesome heroes of awesomeness. Unfortunately, one of us is doomed to die.... We can't both survive like Open 402.

DONT LEAVE ME VENMAR!

[TeChNoWC]

I WILL NEVER LEAVE YOU, WE SHALL LEAD THE TOWN TO VICTORY YET AGAIN.

Techno, has TAM ever mentioned anything regarding his logic or reasoning in your QT that he said was using for this thread? Can you confirm his alibi?

Some yes some seems a bit shady. I'll need to reread the QT and ISo him.

A lot of his reads came after I stated them. I'll check this is the case but I seem to remember that EVERY read of his came from me. I said Junpei null, he said it. I said City/Pm scumteam, he said it. This actually made me think town because I was in a QT with TAM in 418 (masons) and he was very agreeable with my opinions so I just put it down to us having similar mindsets and usually on the same wavelength. Meta was hugely making me think TAM town.

Suffice to say TAM is flaking a lot more than he did in 418 though. I'll check to see if he is in his other games and whatnot.

[TeChNoWC]

@Bitmap: You are the BIGGEST traitor I have ever seen. At least you could've made it a surprise.

I think TAM is the last scum at this point. There's really no one else.

Bitmap fooled us all, he really did.

How is he a traitor though?

[TeChNoWC]

@Bitmap: You are the BIGGEST traitor I have ever seen. At least you could've made it a surprise.

I think TAM is the last scum at this point. There's really no one else.

Bitmap fooled us all, he really did.

How is he a traitor though?

Lol, i'm thinking this as well.

Great minds think alike

Pedit: Ok I'll let that slip for now but it REALLY sounded like you were saying something else.

[TeChNoWC]

@Mod: Just letting you know Bit/Junpei was lynched, in case it goes unnoticed in our stream of posts

[TeChNoWC]

Wherever he might be.

Eh he'll get to it eventually.

[TeChNoWC]

Urgh, intense ISO of Bitmap needed. I'll get to it eventually.

Ven/TAM/PMyst do likewise and give thoughts.

Interesting that Bitmap RVd TAM. Usually people RV someone they know, and I didn't think Bit and TAM had played together.

[TeChNoWC]

hhmm, not sure if two scums would have been on a scum lynch. Ie if TAM is scum, that means half the wagon was scum.

[TeChNoWC]

hi Ven.

Look at TAM's 632 closely I think he derp colaimed scum

[TeChNoWC]

Thats it bruh

[TeChNoWC]

TAM's not getting lynched over the slip, but I'm certainly taking it into account. I'm planning to do a big ISO read of bit, Pmyst and TAM when I get a chance and I'll decide where to go from there.

TAM what do you think of Freudian slips? Have you ever spoken about them before in another game?

[TeChNoWC]

Espeonage pretty sure there was four on the lynch. Flip is bound to happen anyway with Bit claiming scum.

If you dont flip, you will be forced to look for a replacement for junpei merely so they can come in and vote for bit.

[TeChNoWC]

Ok well I want the hammer!

unvote
vote: bitmap

[TeChNoWC]

nope we lynch scum not town. You made the mistake of claiming before a flip, this is what happens.

[TeChNoWC]

thadda boy

[TeChNoWC]

damn ven got the hammer again!

oh wait no he didnt, you guys didnt unvote haha its mine

unvote

[TeChNoWC]

Ven what the hell are you doing? Conf scum hasn't been lynched yet. Urgh this unvote crap is annoying. TAM is likely last last scum but let's lynch Bitmap first. Oh

mod by your rules this is a hammer because Venmar did not unvote so

Unvote (even though I already did but just to be doubly sure)
Vote: Bitmap

He's dead now. No one change your votes until mod flips.

[TeChNoWC]

Oh wait TAM got the hammer, I see now, Pmyst wasn't voting. I WANTED A SCUM HAMMER

[TeChNoWC]

I doubt you'll do the lynch Mafia Scum. Besides, you'll be dead before you see Town win for the first time.

Because I'm Town and there is nothing you can do about it. After you die tomorrow, Venmar and I will celebrate a wonderful Town victory. Of course, Techno can too.

This post looks town to me.

Pity you are wrong Scum.

Stop trying you can't fool me. You've made to many slip ups.

This post looks scum. What slip ups?

[TeChNoWC]

Tell TAM and Venmar to just vote Junpei instead of spending more work.

Is this a slip though?

Urgh Bit stop playing with my head

[TeChNoWC]

TAM, how do you know 'we' or 'PM' will lose if we lynch you?
1. Firstly, you think PM is scum, which means PM would win if we lynch you
2. Secondly, you shouldn't know my alignment, so if you are town you wouldn't know if lynching yourself would equal a town loss.

[TeChNoWC]

Where is the mod?

[TeChNoWC]

I'm trying to help Venmar and Techno win it for the Town

Pmyst, why do you think me and Ven are town?

Why do you think TAM is scum?

[TeChNoWC]

@Hoopla, there has also been a lynch (unflipped), in which Bitmap has confessed scum and is lovers with Junpei (who then by PoE is town).

[TeChNoWC]

I think it's TAM.

Ven, did PM say anything in the QT recently that makes you think town or scum?

[TeChNoWC]

I got the feeling you felt confident in PM town earlier (more so than me) and I thought he must have said something in the QT that made you think this. Please share.

Also, if you have time bro, go in and double ISO PM and TAM, and Ctrl F "Bitmap". Then post all the quotes that they refer to him. Try to edit paste if you can.

Then when I get time I'll do the same with Bitmap ISO, and Ctrl F PM and TAM.

[TeChNoWC]

Hopefully I can get to a reread before throwing down a hammer. Sorry for the inactivity guys, been busy.

[TeChNoWC]

God, Bitmap ISO reveals nothing about who is last scum. Also, some of PM's last few comments sound hectically like scum scheming after a reread. Especially this:

I meant to say that I'm not scum. It is TAM that's the scum. Don't trust him.

It was completely unprovoked (his post beforehand in no way implied he had 'scumslipped' and said he himself was scum) so it sounds like
a) scum nervousness (oh no did I say the wrong thing? I didn't mean that!)
b) redirecting (don't look at me, look at TAM!)

I believe the only way to end this day is:

1. PM makes a case on TAM
2. TAM makes a case on PM

And PM, I urge you to actually say SOMETHING about why you think TAM is scum. Quote quotes, everything.

[TeChNoWC]

Actually PM, I won't... Maybe if you read my only scum game you'd see how wrong you are.

Why are you concerned about someone who you think is scum looking at your meta and changing their view on you? Basically you are trying to persuade a (supposed) scum with logic that is designed to convince townies.

Though I will give it to you, your meta is somewhat different in that game.

[TeChNoWC]

I have absolutely no idea who it is. And without a deadline, it could be anyone.

Atm I'm just leaning lynch TAM because I want suicide on my odd deaths record. That's how stumped I am. Both PM and TAM are just throwing back and forths. PM, good work on the case (nothing groundbreaking their though) and TAM looking slightly more town in the last few posts. They look almost about as scummy as each other now.

Ven what do you think I hate being in this position, we literally NEED this win to keep up our awesomeness.

[TeChNoWC]

I think PM presenting reasons about why he might see scum-techno being a possibility might present us with some reads. TAM, who do you think it is if not PM?

[TeChNoWC]

Overall view: You are now just barely leaning town to me. The argument between you and Om is the only thing keeping me from saying your scum, and if he had flipped scum... I probably would be on your ass right now.

Ok this looks scummy. Ven, thoughts.

It looks like wishy-washy stuff mafiates say to each other (eg semi-coaching, semi-wanting-to-bus, semi 'eh my gut says scum but your my scumbuddy and I don't really wanna jump on yet I just want some distance') I see it all the time from my scumbuddies and it shits me when they do it. Not as obvi as most I've seen (don't wanna not give scum-TAM credit where credit is due), but it seems odder with the timing. Like, it was just leading up to a Junpei/Bitmap lynch and all of a sudden he wants to interject with 'I think Bit might be a little bit scummy'

[TeChNoWC]

There are things in Tech's behavior that disturb me...

You should elaborate on these.

Especially something that was said in quick topic that he didn't do which kind of surprised me.

You did explain most of your suspicions in the QT before the thread. Ven and PM don't like you doing that; I have no problem with it. I defended you on that point. But I also explained that most of the game I had a feeling you were parroting me in the QT, which at first I just thought was same-mindedness and healthy town collusion. I had second thoughts about it.

[TeChNoWC]

TAM, why are you not voitng PMyst?

[TeChNoWC]

Urgh.

Vote: Draw

I have no idea. TAM's last post = sounds townie.

[TeChNoWC]

I know Venmar is not scum

How do you know this? Has he said something in the QT?

[TeChNoWC]

^ I know that based on what he said in general. I'm not saying I'm scum or anything, I'm just saying that the PM/Venmar lover couple is the Town/Town couple in my opinion.

Can you give me examples of things that he said/did that seemed townie to you?

[TeChNoWC]

Urgh. Ok. I actually think TAM might be town. I am getting townie vibes. Also, part of me doesn't want to lose to possible scum-PM. I mean, seriously.

1. I can't see anyone but TAM getting lynched today.
2. I'm fairly happy to sheep your read, Ven; but after this I'm never having a lylo situation with PM, like, ever. And I do believe, this IS my first ever lylo (had to be a nightless, hey )

I'll hammer soon, but I would like Ven to give one more quick over PM. I would honestly rather lose to scum-TAM than scum-PM. But I would also like suicide on my record.

I mean, that's what it's coming down to. That's how absolutely fucking stumped I am.

I'll sheep you Ven in my next post and kill TAM unless you say otherwise.

[TeChNoWC]

I would really like a draw here because I feel like I am killing someone I think is townish. Not to say I haven't done that before though; but it means a helluva lot more in lylo. Fuck, I hate lylo.

Sheeping Ven. I won't blame you if you are wrong bro, just putting that out there.

Unvote
Vote: TAM

I believe scum-Pmyst just won.

[TeChNoWC]

I was. It's why I wanted a draw, because I couldn't do anything for my wincon but vote you or Pmyst.

Nah, jk.

[TeChNoWC]

Fuck.

This.

Game.

replace out
replace out
replace out

Urgh.

[TeChNoWC]

Inb4 Om yells at Tech and Venmar for not reading Om's ISO and ignoring the blatant scum-slip that PMyst did.

Yo shouldn't post before a flip/endgame.

Unvote

if at all possible, though quite cheatery.

Welp, TAM had a massive scumslip himself that was blaring in our faces and unfortunately we all fucked up. Fuck you Bitmap, you keep beating me.

Urgh, I'm gonna be sick. FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK

[TeChNoWC]

@Om: I thought doing a 180 on my TAM read would make me look like obvscum and I'd be the one lynched anyway. Pretty appauling I know -_-

I literally couldn't find anything to prove Pmyst was scum. It all just looked like fluff, that was the problem. There was a little scumslip I noticed earlier (with the Bitmap betrayal comment thingy) but tbh TAM's was much bigger so it was like urgh two scum in this game say wat.

If I had of switched, and Ven and TAM had started calling me scummy, maybe it would have reaction fished PM into another slip. Ah fuckity fuck fuck.

[TeChNoWC]

@Tech: Remember how I decided to lynch you after re-reading ISOs from the strong town players?

Nope, what do you mean

I will argue that PM is hard to lynch in a lover game. Lack of content = not sure his alignment = nullplayer attached to protown Venmar. He should have died before lylo but that would have meant killing Ven too just for policy.

I'll congratulate PM on the win. People saying he sucks and all what what well, his style managed to pull him a win at least in this type of setup. I'll still give scum MVP to Bitmap though for not tying himself to PM and managing to look very town, at least on my level of scumhuntery.

PM did well to stick to the TAM shitfling fest and ride it out and deprive everyone of content. Game went bone arid dry.