Open 419 Diffusion of Power - Game Over

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Hmmm... only 2 players I don't know, Scott and Venmar.

VOTE: Venmar

PS: This is a serious question. Should everyone claim what they are the day after their specific night? Ex, a N1 cop claims on Day2?

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

In a game where you only get one shot on one specific night? Regardless of whether or not you act, you're effectively a VT for the rest of the game afterwards.

Yea, which means scum can easily hide behind a fake claim, and we'll be hunting those who have a far X-night (like 4 or 5). If everyone who claims N1 Doc should be believed and will be treated VT for the rest of the game, why can't scum do it?

Also, I only care for it to be considered IF AND ONLY IF we ever have a cop and doc with the same night. It allows for a garaunteed investigation (scum can't shoot the cop because of the doc protect). Or what, exactly, are you objecting to?

I think what he means to say is "how would the cop and doc know that they share a night?" It's not like cops and docs can't repeat nights. For ex, there could be 3 Day3-specific docs, and no Day3 specific Cop.

So are you planning on outing everyone, or what?

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

If they claim to have far X-Nights (or if they try to claim N1s), they can't claim too many at that point. I find it highly unlikely for there to be more than 2-3 on any given night, and even 3 feels like a stretch.

Meh. It's all random. Yes, having 3 docs (or cops) on one night is a 0.8% chance. But that doesn't mean we put those who claim to be Docs, and they all happen to fall on the same night, to the rope.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Don't see why we would want everyone that works on a specific night to claim, the chances aren't in our favor really. There's also the chance that a N1 cop would claim and a scum would claim N1 doc and the cop would end up dead, or a N1 cop would claim and no N1 doc would claim because there wasn't one. These are things we should consider, and that scum can always potentially lie themselves into the claim. Maybe not as a doctor because then a dead cop would put them to the noose, but a claimed cop maybe, and claim that a innocent townie turned up as mafia. Really, this will be a interesting game because claims will probably run rampant at one point or another. ( This is my prediction. )

Sorry, but this is like the 4th time I try reading this paragraph to no avail. My eyes keep glazing over the amount of times the word claim appeared in the post.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Also

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Voided

Bandwagoning, pressuring, pushing a lynch, etc etc...

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

33% probability of killing the current cop. 'Nuff said.

Plus the fact that scum can

easily

fit in, especially in the early days, so it's not really a huge benefit it go "TROLOL, EVERYONE CLAIM NOW AND WE'LL BELIEVE YOU ALL!"

Yea... no.

It gives hypothetical docs a better target though

No. Just no. In fact, without any one claiming, the Docs would be doing their judgement in choosing from the people that most look town, while the scum have to pick someone without really proof of their roles, etc. While if cop claims, the doc would not only be placed in a WIFOM if to actually choose the cop to protect, or to try and outsmart the scum by picking someone else. PLUS, the fact that there is no gurantee that the actual cop is telling the truth, so the Doc can basically protect a scum.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

You sheeping Ice? Do you actually find Voided scummy? If yes, what is scummy about him?
Post #32 doesn't look good to me.

Meh. That vote was semi-serious, and it was a lot better than my completely random vote on Venmar. And yes, I do find Voided scummy for suggesting an anti-town idea that he tried to wrap with gold. If he would've been called out upon it, he could've always backtracked and said "oh well, I was just throwing suggestions out there; at least I'm being productive."

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

The fact that Voided didn't really push the plan down our throats or really push it forward is a townie thing to do.

What wut? Townies are more likely to push for an idea because they genuinley and strongly believe in it, so they try explaning their side and their POV. While scum are more likely to drop things because they don't wanna gain too much attention or look awkward.

If this was a largely played setup however and Voided's idea was badly looked upon, i would go with your guys's ideas and probably support the lynch, but in this situation i do not.

Wait wut? Why would a scum try to throw out a bad idea that can potentially turn anti-town in an already known setup, where they can be called upon it right away? I'm saying the best place to do it is in a new setup, where they are prone to get away with it.

I suggest we go away from this claiming discussion and get to real scumhunting rather than just some rather random discussion

Okay, going by the antonym of "real" is "fake", how is this fake-scumhunting? And what

is

real-scumhunting? Also, how is this "random" discussion.

I think your post is a good case

against

Voided. Are you secretly a Voided alt?

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Perhaps you do mean it in the way i proposed, i don't know, i just disagree that Voided should be the prime target right now. BEFORE ANYONE ASKS, no, i do not have a prime target in mind yet.

So then why are you so opposed to Voided getting pressure right now? If seems like you are going out of your way to defend Voided (never mind about ruining any attempt at actually getting Voided to respond to pressure himself), and then you come up blank. I'm a

very

close to voting for you right now. You're only saved by the fact I don't have 2 votes.

Here is what basically have been happening:

Discussion about how to deal with the setup --> Voided proposing an anti-town idea --> People jumping on Voided pressuring, etc --> You deciding to stand up and white-knight Voided.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

So let me get this straight, you are attacking me for disagreeing about your scumread?

No, you're going

out

of your way to defend someone, without even letting them defend themselves first. How the hell can you be so sure that I am wrong about Voided when all he's done is suggest an anti-town idea? Yes, you might think it's not a big deal, but you don't have to go out of your way to try and dicredit other people's opinions, or not even give a chance for some pressuring,

especially

considering that you don't have anything else that warrant's attention.

White-Knighting is not a scum tell, try again.

Uhh, yea it can be.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

hi again, ScumArthur!

Ohai!

Landing scum is what I do best

I realize its mostly meta, but hey, we're only five pages or so in.

Yea... about that. I'm very hard to meta due to my rather chaotic nature of playing.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

VOTE: Venmar

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

I don't understand why we shouldn't claim at L-1. Can someone explain that please.

Okay, what in the world would stop you from lyching someone because you believe their claim? And what could scum possibly claim that they can possibly be caught with? Nothing.

Claiming Day 1 cop. Would that stop you from lynching them? Possibly, but then why can't scum just claim that?
Claiming Day 1 doc. That's even less provable.

Etc...

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

If scum claims a role that someone already has (at L-1), that person would hammer knowing the claimer is scum.

Uhh, no.

First, the Mod randomises how many Cops and Docs there are: either 4cops-6docs, 5cops-5docs, or 6cops-4docs.
Then, the Mod randomises a number from 1-5 for each town player. This is the one night that the players' role works on.

So you see, there can be multiple players with the same power and night. Each one gets a number from 1-5, but the rolls are independent of each other.

(And while I'm copying and pasting from the wiki, let me just mention that

Mafia are told pregame exactly how many Cops and Docs exist in the setup, but not who and what nights they are

for people who didn't know)

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Absta has my permission to hammer.

Because... if he doesn't, you know you're the lynch? Fascinating.

Idk about 2b1s, but Venmar is def scummy.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Would a claim not be useful for us then?

Not really. A flip will be useful for us, since around end-game we can determine how many docs and cops there are, and see if anyone is lying (because no matter what, if everyone claims, scum will have to make one pile -either docs or cops- at least 7)

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

VOTE: Venmar

WAGON GO GO GO!

And so, how about that quicklynch-fishing by absta yesterday. Discuss.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Ser Arthur Dayne feels scum because of post #189.

I'm scum for explaning the setup to someone who was confused about it?

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

VOTE: FuD

I think he's scum for camping his vote on me, even though he was around lynch time, but couldn't commit to a wagon.

Also, Mala, if you believe in your theory, why aren't you voting FuD, since he must be confirmed scum by your theory, since Yoshi flipped town?

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Also, I don't think I have to say this, but IF YOU'RE A COP WITH A GUILTY, CLAIM!

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Any wagon that takes 1 pg to get 2/3 votes to lynch must be crap, and is prob being pushed by scum.

And scott- why do you just bandwagon high wagons and just give some "reasonable" reasons?

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

^ That last sentence doesn't make much sense.

It seems like you're jumping on wagons and giving logical reason to justify your voting so you don't look like you're voting blindly, but at the same time the reasons you give seem artifical and fake, and it looks like you're just being opportunistic.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Trying to catch scum with wagon analysis is really stupid without a scumflip first.

You don’t really believe this, do you? Mis-lynches are also very well to catch scum with, and it’s been proven before that people can get caught by jumping awkwardly on a mislynch, or soft-pushing a lynch without actually jumping on so they don’t dirty their hands, etc. If you’re waiting for a scum-flip to start analysing, then you might as well be lynching blindly.

I’m not saying I AGREE with everything Mala is saying. But I think she genuinely believes in what she is saying, and she looks like she has a pro-town agenda behind it, so jumping on her because she is trying to work with what she has and trying to figure out the game is just stupid.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Venmar's wagon never really got traction. Not sure how you get opportunistic from that.

Because the lynch was most likely going to be 2b1s, and by voting a competing wagon you not only look good by not being on a mislynch, but if you’re on a partner (if you and Venmar are scums), then you could look later by saying "oh, look, I was pursuing scum since Day1!"

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

These feeble attempts at wagon analysis are ridiculous. You realize I could say the exact same thing about you SED (being on the wagon late avoiding the inevitable lynch trying to good look etc etc)? It's completely baseless and empty analysis.

No, but I'm just saying every vote you've put out has been opportunistic. Do you disagree with this?

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Wtf, scum killed Yoshi. He had like 1 post.

Less posts = less connections

Also, they were probably afraid of a doc protection.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

@MOD: I will be V/LA all day tomorrow, and LA till Monday/Tuesday

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Still on V/LA.

FuD and/or Scott are scum on the Mala wagon.

And I could sheep ConfidAnon into voting Venmar (infact, if we can proxy votes, I would give my vote to him).

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Dayne, are you convinced that Mala is not scum? Why would you make assumptions on who could be scummy on the mala wagaon before there is a flip? You seem to be sure what the outcome will be.

Yea, I have pretty strong townreads. I'm not going to lie, sometimes I have horrible scumreads. But I usually nail townies. And I'm pretty confident that Mala is town.

Also, if we can't do wagon analysis before an actual flip, then do we just lynch blindly? No, if a wagon is suspicious, there is a good chance that there is scum on it, and that it is on a townie, so waiting for the flip when something is obv just wastes a day and a lynch.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

<_<
>_>

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Hey, guys. We're not in LyLo. So we lynch FuD. If he flips town, we lynch Venmar.

VOTE: FuD

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Also, everybody remember that one of them flipping scum does not confirm the other as town.

Fine. Why are you still not voting? One of them flipping town

confirms

the other as scum.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

And you're desperately trying to push this lynch extremely quickly before anybody has second thoughts, such as that both of you might be scum, or other claims.

What are you talking about? Okay, if they're both scum, we can talk about that tomorrow.

Also, what "second thoughts"? Are you gonna get an epiphany from the heavens that both Ven and Ice are town? If not, then please help to lynch one, so we can get more info.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Scott is next.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Lynch FuD. If he's scum, lynch Scott. If he's scum, can all 3 scum possibly jump on the Mala wagon like that (meaning Ice is also scum?)

Malakittens - 4(IceGuy, FuDuzn, Om of the Nom, Scott Brosius)

If scott is town, then def lynch Ice.

Pedit: Ice, you know what I meant

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Actually, I'd much rather lynch Venmar in any case.

Actually, we should prob mass claim roles only (w/o the x-day) at some point to establish in which group scum will be in (either fake-claiming cop or fake-claiming doc).

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

more like dayne is next

you've dodged the questions i've asked you every single time, you die

I'm guilty for ignoring questions?

i really want to give one more chance to dayne to respond to the questions ive been asking him for fucking ever, but expressing an intention to vote fuzdun

Is that going to be your grand contribution to the game? Waiting on me to answer a question?

Not that I have an idea what question you want me to answer, mind you.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

His posts seem forced, and he seems to contributing for the sake of keeping town happy and looking like he's contributing as opposed to genuinely scumhunting.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

What if ConfidAnon claims a cop guilty on you?

You can't be serious are you? You were making out ConfidAnon to be superman or something, and then when you're called upon it, this is what you come up with? That what IF ConfidAnon was a N3 cop and what IF he copped Venmar and what IF he got a guilty. AND that all just seems to happen with the person who has not posted yet. And even IF all that is true, you know we would still have to lynch Venmar or FuD, right?

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

I'm still alive. Just saying.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

@Asta... ConidAnon is no longer in the game...

Anyways,

VOTE: Scott

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

I think Iceguy might be going for too scummy to be scum? Not wanting to quicklynch guilty-confirmed scum, pushing on a cop (assuming Ven is telling the truth, which I am pretty sure he is), etc...

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Too scummy is not a reason to be town in my opinion. This isn't a newbie game and IceGuy isn't a newbie, that's for sure. It would make sense for IceGuy scum to push the two town mislynches on day 1 and day 2, not wanting to lynch a guilty-confirmed scum, and then trying to dispose of the possibly confirmed town who got the guilty on his partner by trying to frame him.

That’s what I was saying... he might be scum trying to go for the “too scummy to be scum” tactic.

Dwayne, who is your number 1 pick for scum today? If it isn't IceGuy, who is?

Maybe the guy I’m voting? *cough cough* Scott *cough*

It's the perfect plan ... until somebody notices what I noticed. That's the reason why Venmar tried to rush the lynch through and is now pushing me so hard.

Or why can’t he just be a cop who got a guilty on a scum?

FuDuzn was a great investigation.. he wasn't on anyones scum list or town list.. not that i could see anyways.

Actually, no, I nailed him as scum day2 Hence my single vote on him even at the lynch

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

FYI, I'm voting because that first post of the day thing is an awesome observation

Please stop. You're killing me here. You're voting someone because an observation was "awesome"?!

Yea... no. That won't hold up.

If Absta was gonna fake-claim cop, WHY THE HELL DID HE NOT JUST FREAKING FAKE CLAIMED COP? IF SOMEONE WAS GOING TO "BITE" WOULD HE NOT HAVE TO FAKE-COP ANYWAYS? AND IF HE STILL WANTED TO FAKE-CLAIM, AND NO ONE "BIT" HE WOULD'VE SAID HE WAS A COP.

I'm not saying Absta isn't scum. But you better have a better reason than jumping on a wagon because of a cute observation.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Way to be super-literal about it

I'm clearly saying that I think Scott's line of reasoning is legit

Claiming that I'm just voting absta because I liked the observation is terribad

Wut?

Scott's "line of reasoning" is that Absta tried to fake-claim cop but no one bit.

And you quoted what he said, voted Absta, and then said "FYI, I'm voting because that first post of the day thing is an awesome observation"

I mean, you

literally

said that you are voting because of what Scott said...

And now you're trying to say me saying you are voting because you "liked the observation" is terribad...

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

he was scum who wanted to float that out there and see if anyone supported it before putting his chips behind it.

By throwing a random statment that people might or might not catch?

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Also I want to hear from everyone which option they think is more likely.

This is stupid. You're distracting town with this. We're not playing the option game because these whole scenarios are basless and are serving nothing pro-town. They are basically hypothetical random things that might or might not be true on Absta's motives because he decided to copy a cop with a guilty from the day before. You're just stretching waaaaay too much.

Do you have any other reasons for voting Absta atm?

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

How are they hypothetical and random? they're based on things absta actually said and admitted to. Explain what other options could exist.

Solid statment ---> Would be based on if Absta claimed cop, and the options were "A: fake-claiming" or "B: telling the truth"

Hypothetical statments ---> Based on guessing what Abtsa's motives are, with options "A: attempting to breadcrumb cop and then backtracking" or "B: Not breadcrumbing cop"

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Do you believe Absta is town or scum?

He's null atm. I'll ISO soon enough when I am bored. But he is being shadowed because there are so many other people doing more things, and then there is scumScott.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Prod-dodge.

I'm still alive...

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Ohai.

@MOD: V/LA for a few days, till about Fri (perhaps less).

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Ice, for you to assume that it was a gambit, means to assume that there is someone who appeared less scummy than FuD atm for scum to pick FuD to make the gambit on. Who do you think is the third scum then?

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

@MOD: I had an announced V/LA...

Ohai.

@MOD: V/LA for a few days, till about Fri (perhaps less).

Anyways, I'll get to this game sometime tomorrow (you don't wanna see my other games, which I have literally fallen behind on by like 10pgs <_<).

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Still alive.

Still want a Scott lynch.

I think deadline is near (?), so willing to compromise on Ice.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

I think deadline is near (?), so willing to compromise on Ice.

Check Venmar's and Natalie's ISO and say that again.

Venmar looks fine and ConfidAnon looked fine, and Natalie hasn't done such horrible job as to make me change the read on that slot, so meh.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Just to be clear, the persons I want to lynch are Dayne, Venmar and Natalie, in decreasing order. I won't vote Scott, Delta or IceGuy no matter what happens.

Why do you not want to lynch the three you listed?

No, but I'd prefer taking out scum over taking out VI's.

I'm scum?

I think Delta and Scott are town. SED is null, but could easily be scum.

Doesn't the fact that you have town reads on me, Delta, Scott and Venmar make Dayne scum by process of elimination?

How many times are you gonna push my lynch baselessly? You're looking bad because of it bro.

PEdit:

Alright. I propose that we lynch Dayne then, since most seem to suspect him anyway. Wouldn't that be a good compromise?

You look really desperate.

But really, I think we have a better chance to hit scum on Dayne than on Natalie

And desperate.

I think what you're really missing here is the

why

. Your "case" (if you can even call it that) looks pathetic at best and scummy at worst. And please don't re-direct me to that catch-up post of yours in which you quote some random posts and twist them and give a brief comment on each. Summarize your case on me in a paragraph. I want you to bring your biggest baddest case against me. Put everything you got into it, heart and soul. Don't fill it with the bullshit points you're throwing at me now - give me something solid. I want you to bring the house down on me and we'll dance.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Hmmm....

Let's make this interesting...

VOTE: Iceguy

I can just as easily jump on Helldude... but I would be voting with Scott and Delta (not that voting with Venmar and Natalie is much better )

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Ah yes Dayne, the lynch mob is getting closer. I hope you're scared.

Lol? Imaginary lynch mob?

Reach for the stars kid.

I just rechecked it to be sure that I didn't accidentally delete half of it before posting. I didn't.

Cute. But that still doesn't make you catch up post a case

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

iceguy is acceptable

VOTE: IceGuy

Hi. Did you know you were hammering?

Am I seriously getting lynched for not actually being scummy?

I think you already got lynched, no? With 7 alive it's 4 to lynch...

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

ITTTTTTTTTT'S LYLO!

Hellraiser is def scum though.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

A million bucks on Dayne

Why would I kill the person I would've most likely went for today?

Also, if you're a cop with an innocent (that is, an innocent on one of the players currently alive) you should prob claim.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

WTF? Nice misrep bro. I didn't say that they're scummy. I meant they're derp town.

Just like I didn't mean you as scum either.

(granted, one of you has to be Helldude's partner, but I'll look into that after we lynch him).

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Assuming you're telling the truth right now Dayne: Why is voting with people

you think are town

(Venmar/Natalie) as bad as voting with people

you think are scum?

(Scott)

Because voting with derp town can be as bad as voting with scum? Scum do not have an obligation to only vote townies you know... And fyi, I

did

vote with who I think is town, and I didn't say that it's "as bad", I said "not much better".

PS: And it has just a tad bit of sarcasm in it.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Do you think Hellraiser is scum?

Yes. Right now, I'm toying with a Natalie/Hell or Venmar/Hell pair.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Will look at connections between Natalie(confid)/Hell(absta) and Venmar/Hell(absta) at some point today.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

The last time you mentioned Absta/Hell, he was "null", what changed?

A great gust of POE hit.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Well, how about I vote for Dayne and see if he is hammered?

No. Helldude, put your vote on me. Then wait till everyone comes in, so if the mafia are not any two of us, they can hammer. If I'm not hammered, that means one of me or you is scum. Then town can pick between me and you.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

._.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

And to think. I protected ConfidAnon on Day1

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Hell, are you an alt, or is this your first game on site? (if it's the latter, welcome! )

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Hell, are you an alt, or is this your first game on site? (if it's the latter, welcome! )

Well, an alt (as I just said). How did you find me out?

You didn't post anywhere else and you seemed experienced

Who are you?

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Yeah... I might as well reveal myself, I'll create a new alt soon anyway. I'm Johhog, chronic lurker and the resident Swede of this forum. I don't think you've seen me around as I've only been in one Mafia game before since this winter and I haven't been that active in the discussion sections either lately. I think DeltaWave is the only one here I've played with before, and I've only played with him a couple of times IIRC.

Actually, I've seen you twice. And we've been in a game together, though granted, you might not remember. One of the times I saw you in Team Mafia, you were on the same team as Zar, right? And he told me that he might need a replacement for you, so I read some of the game And the second time (actualy, first chronologically), we've played in The game of the year together! (I was alted as "Luffy" and you died in the beginning with the mimes :p)

Yea... those aren't really great examples, but I know you!

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

But, I'm also from the Tri-state, and I wasn't in on the plans! It makes me sad that you guys left me out

(PS: I'm from New York )

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Well Dayne, a lot of people thought you were scum. If that makes you feel better.

<_<