Open 444: Nightless Vengeful Mayhem! OVER, MVPs!

[JohnnyFarrar]

@mod, you should probably message everyone that the game has started. I didn't even know it did and nearly forgot to check.

[JohnnyFarrar]

No thanks on the RQS

@Eidelon, why you pushin so hard on 2B1S?

@2b1s, how often do you see policy lynches going through?

@Klick, the purpose of explaining a townread is to show others what you mean so they can judge how strong that townread should be, thereby allowing them to understand both the person you have a townread on and you yourself for having that read. You're townread is a good one.

Fuck people.

Everyone that has played less than 3 non-newbie games on this site tell me, please.

I need to know how mad I can be at a few of you.

[JohnnyFarrar]

The instant I saw the playerlist, I decided I was gonna policy Prolapsed.

Vote: Prolapsed Brain

Vote: Venrob

He really ought to be policy lynched,

Did you guys even read the setup wiki? In the four times that this setup has been used, the civilians have only won once. ONCE. We can NOT afford to lynch someone off just because we don't like them. It won't end well for us.

Moving on.

VOTE: Eidolon

Couple reasons:
She was first to post when no PMs were sent out. Scum would be more reactive because they would have seen gamestart in the QT.

Half her posts have been jokes

She answered RQs and got clarification on one for some reason

She calls Scruffy suspicious. Not useless, suspicious.

[JohnnyFarrar]

Vote 2Birds1Stone

for jumping on an absolutely rubbish RVS wagon.

Calm down people, we are not trying to lynch quick. We are trying to lynch correct.

2b1s's vote is for pressure. He clearly states it.

Eidolon, meanwhile, seems to be trying to say that Scruffy looks scummy. She deserves your vote more.

[JohnnyFarrar]

Shaded is my only townread so I'm waiting for an explanation.

[JohnnyFarrar]

VOTE: Eidolon

Couple reasons:
She was first to post when no PMs were sent out. Scum would be more reactive because they would have seen gamestart in the QT.

Half her posts have been jokes

She answered RQs and got clarification on one for some reason

She calls Scruffy suspicious. Not useless, suspicious.

These are strange reasons? Looks like you are just pulling things out of your ass.[/quote]

Nope. You really did all the things I said.

Being active =/= scum.

Never said it was. But you posted within hours on the first day of activity in a game that did send out role PM's at daystart. Scum would have seen it started in their QT, which is how I think you got here so fast.

Joking =/= scum. i made serious points as well.

More scum than town. Jokes artificially bolster post counts, making you look more active than you are.

What serious points have you made?

answering rqs = /= scum. wtf?

Again, useless posts make you look more active than you are.

getting clarification from someone =/= scum. He made a contradictory post. I wanted his reasoning behind it.

You were clarifying something that didn't matter. What's the point?

Scruffy did something hypocritical. At that point, it was the best lead. Doesn't mean he's scum or he should be lynched, just means he's the best option for a wagon. This is the point of rvs. You find something that is strange, and turn it into a wagon. This gets people talking about things in a more serious way and taking stances.

I agree that that is a way to get out of RVS, but I decided to skip it.

And then you talk about newbs as if you have experience. You should know what rvs is for if you have experience.

I do have experience. I was a living member of the only town that's ever won this setup, in fact.

[JohnnyFarrar]

frick. messed up the tags.

[JohnnyFarrar]

So Johnny, you basically admit that my push on scruffy wasn't scummy.

Your push on Scruffy gave the impression that you thought he was scum, but never outright said it. That's the kind of soft language that gets a wagon started on a townie, but doesn't get you in trouble for it when he flips town.

The rest of your case is just filler.

I happen to like the rest of my case.

The fact that i threw a few jokes in doesn't mean anything.

Unless you're scum trying to set up a good post count or trying to make people like you.

I made 3 jokes in 5, 10, and 17.

These jokes weren't meaningless. Even though they were joking, they had intent.

I was trying to put pressure on 2birds.

That was pressure? He only responded to 17.

In 15, Name User's contradiction needed explaining. Though it's a slight slip up, it could have alluded to scum motivation (not wanting to admit how experienced he is.) his reactions and info given out later make him it null.

eh, I'll take it.

Why do you have a town tell on shaded?

I'll tell you exactly why immediately after I hear klick's reason to the contrary.

[JohnnyFarrar]

Vote 2Birds1Stone

for jumping on an absolutely rubbish RVS wagon.

Calm down people, we are not trying to lynch quick. We are trying to lynch correct.

2b1s's vote is for pressure. He clearly states it.

Eidolon, meanwhile, seems to be trying to say that Scruffy looks scummy. She deserves your vote more.

Pressure for what? A quick under-pressure role-claim to ease the job of scum? And why do you defend him?

Both a newbtell in general and a towntell in this setting.

Newbtell because he doesn't seem to understand pressure voting.

Towntell here because he seems to think a claim is possible and something we should avoid.

[JohnnyFarrar]

It's a towntell because it's more likely for a townie to not know that there aren't any town PRs. Scum would be well aware. Townies, especially VTs, tend to just find out what their role is and start posting. Scum would actually read the setup to see what they're dealing with.

[JohnnyFarrar]

The slowness of this game irritates me.

I have no problem with yabba's uneasiness with me. I get that a lot with this type of approach.

@ Eidolon,

Seems incredibly artificial. We all know the purpose behind RVS; why articulate? Also, why complain about lack of discussion without adding discussion? You didn't even comment on the policy lynch proposals.

He quoted scruffy, clearly stated what he thought was wrong with it, and asked multiple questions. All without voting. What else would this be, if not pressure?

[JohnnyFarrar]

I've recently played a game with the both of you. this should be interesting.

[JohnnyFarrar]

No, I'm saying people are often uneasy with how concise I've been trying to be lately. I didn't realize you were saying I was scummy.

[JohnnyFarrar]

Again you're making no sense. Your latter remark isn't replying to my suspicion.

Now you're just confusing me.

[JohnnyFarrar]

still trying to belittle my case. ok.

Also I've played with both heads of our hydra friend (I agree about PM), but I'm not free to comment on Salamence just yet because I'm still alive in the only game I've played with him.

[JohnnyFarrar]

^ You single me out for calling scruffy suspicious, when at the time it was the most suspicious thing, hence all the other votes, agree with me that my method was an effective one, and now 2birds pretty much says that he's sure scruffy is scum and you don't say anything?

I single you out for being the

first

to both imply that his poor post (on the first page no less) is

scummy

and actually vote him for it.

you still riding the whole "2birds vote was obviously for pressure" thing?

@ Eidolon,

Seems incredibly artificial. We all know the purpose behind RVS; why articulate? Also, why complain about lack of discussion without adding discussion? You didn't even comment on the policy lynch proposals.

He quoted scruffy, clearly stated what he thought was wrong with it, and asked multiple questions. All without voting. What else would this be, if not pressure?

And the rest of your case is just filler. Joking before anything noteworthy happened, being first to post 5 hours after the day started, and answering some rqs questions.

joking is fluff is useless (makes you look active though, which is useful if you're scum that doesn't want to draw attention to yourself), being first to post so early after the day started makes it look (to me) like you had some way of knowing it started (like you saw in the scum QT), and answering RQs is fluff is useless.

Yeah, it's either really poor or fake scumhunting.

If you keep saying that, maybe someone will believe you.

[JohnnyFarrar]

define robotic for me, because I'm still not entirely sure what you were accusing me of.

[JohnnyFarrar]

bleh. Eidolon, I don't like your reaction to my BS wagon. I didn't come up with very strong stuff against you, but you didn't handle it in a way that I can read very clearly. You're still on my list of possible scum.

I can't come up with any reads besides my townread on shaded. My biggest suspicions are Eidolon and 2b1s. we'll see where those reads go after the replacements chime in.

[JohnnyFarrar]

First scummy post of the day comes from Johnny. Post 43. He asks why Eidolon was "pushing so hard" on 2b1s. I barely saw any pushing other than say "let's policy lynch whoever calls for policy-lynches." I am prett sure she was joking.

Why is that scummy?

Then he asks 2b1s how often he sees policy lynches go through. Pointless question. How does this get him any closer to ascertaining who is scum and who isn't?

It wasn't outwardly stated, but I was both A) Trying to figure out if he actually wanted to policy lynch or if he was just starting conversation and B) Discouraging policy lynching

And then, it gets even scummier. He tells Klick on why town reads should be given and then assures Klick that his townread was a good one. Eidolon had already explained this and Johnny is just regurgitating what she said while complimenting Klick about his townread. He is trying to appease basically everyone involved.

Ok?... I totally repeated Eidolon. Caught me. The rest of this statement seems like stretching.

He then asks everyone who played less than 3 non-newbie games to let him know. Why? 3 games is pretty high. I haven't completed 3 games but I have a pretty good hang of the game mechanics and such.

People were bringing up policy lynches. Experienced players should know to read the setup and realize that town barely wins this setup and policy lynching is stupid. I wanted to know if any experienced players were promoting something like this, because it could be a scumtell. Why did you bring this up? Is this question somehow scummy too?

Don't agree with Johnny's 46 either. There was nothing really suspicious about answering RQS questions and getting clarification. Eidolon seemed to be trying to generate discussion. Couple that with my townread on Eidolon based on her later posts and I really don't like this one. The reasoning is just too weak. I will concede the point on the first to post after PMs being sent out because I have no idea what was going on regarding the PMs. But the other points are really stretching.

I've acknowledged this. My case on Eidolon was contrived and I was doing it to see if any scum would be stupid enough to get on the wagon and to get tells from Eidolon, since she's the most active player.

Disagree with 71 too. I am town and read the setup. His reasoning for thinking Melee is town is really bad. Seems like the designated scum who is going to defend Melee while the others attack him.

The issue is not whether you read the setup, it's that Shaded clearly didn't, and town are more likely to have NOT read the setup than scum.

So this case is basically "I don't like your case on Eidolon."?

Moving on.

Eidolon is hard to read. I got nothing from her. The only thing I can say is if she does turn out to be scum, peoples' reactions to my case on her will be pretty useful.

The only thing I did get from the BS wagon I tried to start was that 2b1s actually jumped on. If I understand right, he did it because of her answering RQs and making jokes. He called those reasons strong. His vote was shameless bandwagoning and I think he deserves a few votes for it.

And then:

This, combined with his bad reaction to that case earlier, is enough to push me over the edge.

Vote: JohnnyFarrar

You go from sheeping me for terrible reasons to voting me? I bet you're scum.

VOTE: 2birdsinabasket

[JohnnyFarrar]

Posting from class so this'll be short

My other suspicions as they stand sort of vary. I was going to vote yabba, but I thought my thought process was unintentionally driven by OMGUS so I decided to ignore him for now. Name User is making me nervous, a decent case could inspire my vote on him.

As for you, my bird killing friend, your honesty is making me doubt my convictions. I'll make a longer response to you later, but for right now I feel my vote is in the right place.

[JohnnyFarrar]

To be fair I didn't say anything in between when I admitted my case was bad and my current vote. The reason I didn't bring it up sooner was because I was hoping for a tell from you, Eidolon (I'm gonna have to abbreviate your name somehow, I'm tired of typing it), and I was hoping scum would try to casually hop on your wagon. Birdly was the only one that did, so I think he's scum.

I also should add with some humility that the town victory I boasted in this setup wasn't exactly a miraculous one. It came down to lylo for a while and the only reason we won is because the remaining two scum weren't that great at planning attacks and we figured them out with little trouble. The only advice I can give is stay active.

[JohnnyFarrar]

Reading now. My sincerest apologies for the inactivity.

[JohnnyFarrar]

Oh joy, not much to read. (I'm beginning to regret playing this game). *Sees Dashie joined* NEVERMIND this'll get interesting soon. Or she'll just come in and kill me for being stupid.

and town are more likely to have NOT read the setup than scum.

Ugh, this is not true, too. Sure, maybe by the end of the day, but after you play in a Mini Normal you get pretty comfortable not knowing exactly what the roles are. Besides, since it's such a (stupid) widely-accepted towntell to not know the setup, I certainly don't bother reading it until I get my role, make a few posts, and get a feel for the mood of the game and how I want to play it.

This is faulty. Not everyone is comfortable with not knowing the setup. And town often DO forget. I'm not giving the guy a pass forever, but this particular tell is enough for me to not vote him D1.

I'm going to go ahead and say that JF and Birds aren't on the same alignment.

Also I draw a connection between JF and ShadedMelee.

I think my lynch preference Shaded, JF, then Birds.
Eidolon is a strong townread.

Why aren't birdy and I the same alignment? There's daytalk, we could be planning all of this out and cackling at the fact that one of us may be cleared for this little fight. Or, more likely (since I'm town), we could both be townies who don't have a better target so we're picking each other apart.

You don't think it's possible that JF & 2birds are both town?

Also, if JF is scum, shaded is probably town.

As far as johnny, at first i thought his push was way too out there to be scum, but i don't like his backtracking now. (plus him saying that he's gained no read of me from that push)

Johnny, you say you were hoping scum would hop on my wagon. So why didn't you say anything about or vote 2birds in the post that you admitted your case was bs?

You can call me eid or eido for short.

Thank you for finally giving me a solid (town)tell. Also for the nickname.

To answer, I wasn't sure I wanted to vote him until he actually voted me. The sheeping of my bad points may have just been a newb thing (he said he was a new-ish player), but the vote really convinced me it came from scum.

Also, while we're on the subject, UNVOTE:

He reacted too well to ignore. Could be that he's being coached from daytalk, but for right now I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. Still keeping an eye out and all that.

I must be missing something. What exactly is the case on Shaded?

Good question is good.

Yeah, 52, he does seem to be trying to discredit 2b1s. I actually agree with you. The way he was trying to say that 2b1s is ordering the town about seems to me that he was trying to build resentment among the town so that town goes "hey, who is Scruffy to tell us what to do?" This could potentially create rifts between the townies making town more likely to dislike 2b1s.

I can see where this is coming from, but I hardly agree that this is grounds for the wagon on him and the opposition to my little townread. Furthermore, you've not replied to my reply to your case, and are now hopping on another strong bandwagon.

Also,

Whereas a rookie mafian could be . . . possibly even instructed to do as little as possible. . .

I do want to point out that you really do fall here, and that taking shots in the dark may be our best bet here, and that yes, really-- scum wins this game by lurking. By the end of my run of this setup, NO shots had been taken by the mafia vig-- she was lynched Day 1 (as a lurker), but mafia still won with a lurker and a townleader alive. Mafia only needs one advocate, the others to lurk, and they win the game.

Either more prods, more pressure, or more policy lynches.

I didn't think about this til you said it. This just might be true. The only reason we won my game is because everyone got active in the end.

@Eidelon, why you pushin so hard on 2B1S?

You never answered why you asked this.

Idk. Page one questions. Looking for something I could blow out of proportion.

No, I'm saying people are often uneasy with how concise I've been trying to be lately. I didn't realize you were saying I was scummy.

Why else would they be uneasy?

If you think I'm scummy, you have reasons worthy of a vote. If you call someone scummy, it's usually with some sort of accusation. If you say you're uneasy, it's more of a gut reaction that doesn't really stand up to scrutiny.

Also, dayvig is the two-shot guy, right?

Yup.

[JohnnyFarrar]

I'm not totally comfortable with a johnny lynch today, though i see some more opportunism in his last post

I didn't even vote in my last post...

[JohnnyFarrar]

You don't have to place a vote to play opportunistically.

Not to be a prick, but a lot of people have said similar things, so here's a definition:

Opportunism: the policy or practice, as in politics, business, or one's personal affairs, of adapting actions, decisions, etc., to expediency or effectiveness regardless of the sacrifice of ethical principles.

It simply means altering your viewpoints or behavior to fit towards a desired outcome. A scum's desire would be to appear to be pro-town, and they do that by fitting in with how townies perceive things.

So, when I point out that i think it's scummy that you pushed me for a read, and haven't gained a read, and then you say my post gives you a read, it seems opportunistic.

And when i pressure you for your stance on 2birds, and then you unvote him, it seems opportunistic.

Regardless, i don't want you lynched right now. More analysis coming momentarily.

I see what you're saying. Can't really argue with it.

Also your mysterious confidence that I shouldn't be lynched is freaking me out.

Johnny, what was the solid towntell that Eidolon gave you?

In post 190 she said that if I flip scum, shaded is town, and has proceeded to vote shaded instead of me. Scum could easily push for me or push for shaded, but she did neither. It says to me that she's actually trying to see motivations, not draw connections.

Regarding the response to your case, I am really conflicted. It was good, but almost a bit too smooth, if you know what I mean. It is a response that initially made me want to unvote but the more I think about it, the more it didn't make sense to me.

I'm not going to like where this is going. "Didn't make sense" doesn't mean "Scummy".

1) You say you made a case against Eidolon to see if any scum would bandwagon.

Also to possibly get a tell from her, but I see your point.

2) 2b1s bandwagoned but you didn't call him out as scum.

Not right away, there was the possibility that he was town, so I waited for (perhaps) others to join as well.

3) You called him out as scum after he voted you.

Good so far.

4) When asked about why you didn't call him out as scum earlier, you say that you were hoping he would vote you (unless I read it wrong).

I was not hoping he would vote me. The vote was what differentiated (in my mind) a newbie action from a scummy one.

5) You continue pushing Eidolon despite the fact that your case was BS.

Because I didn't get a tell.

6) When asked about it, you say that you were pushing Eidolon hoping for a tell from her.

True.

7) When she presses you on it, you claim that you got a town-read on her.

Explained the read above. It is an unfortunate coincidence, but that's how my thought process worked.

You have answers to every question, Johnny. But the point is that you never really tell us the purpose of your actions until you are pushed on them. Then you give us answers. This entire thing seems to me like you are making stuff up as we go along. That is the prime reason I suspect you.

Ok.
1) If I announce the purpose of everything I do a good amount of it will be pointless. If you ask, I'll tell you. The only reason I would withhold anything would be if it benefited my ability to read someone or (somehow) the town's ability to achieve its win condition.
2) I personally don't think that reason is enough for a vote, but to each his own.

P-Edit:

Did you guys even read the setup wiki? In the four times that this setup has been used, the civilians have only won once. ONCE. We can NOT afford to lynch someone off just because we don't like them. It won't end well for us.

Actually this is another setup that ive been successfull in campaigning to modify, we have more of a chance since another VT is added, moving lylo in the event of mislynch+vengekill to day three. Think this is the third or fourth open ive got modified/removed/etc. Policy lynch actually would be far from the worst possible thing day one in this setup.

Hadn't realized there was any change
Still, giving a policy lynch the vengekill is a bad idea.

She was first to post when no PMs were sent out. Scum would be more reactive because they would have seen gamestart in the QT.

This needs explaining. Why do you think scum were informed of game start in the QT?

Just kind of assumed. Mods usually toss in something like "Day 1 start" or something in the QT.

What JF is saying in 71 is true. Setup ignorance is a mild town tell. Heck ive semi-confirmed town with it a few times with people in this game.

You did it to me in the last game. That's how I knew it.

[JohnnyFarrar]

Johnny, what was the solid towntell that Eidolon gave you?

In post 190 she said that if I flip scum, shaded is town, and has proceeded to vote shaded instead of me. Scum could easily push for me or push for shaded, but she did neither. It says to me that she's actually trying to see motivations, not draw connections.

This is a great place to point out the connection that this DOES draw: If Eido flips scum, it strongly suggests that these two are her partners (really only that Johnny is, though): She attacks Johhny, says that IF he flips scum, it will incriminate SM Eido knows there is a good chance of Johnny being the lynch for today, thet's why she's so wavering in her attitude toward him. Assuming Johnny and Eido are scumpartners, Johnny flipping scum with give Eido a good jumping off point to attack OTHER easy lynch SM. But then Eido goes after SM instead Eido

doesn't

want to lynch her own scumpartner, she just sets up the link for later use because, as I said, it's as likely as not that Johnny will be lynched today. Instead, she attacks SM, he player she said we'd be getting more info on if Johnny flips scum (without waiting for the scumflip).

Ok.

3) You called him out as scum after he voted you.

4) When asked about why you didn't call him out as scum earlier, you say that you were hoping he would vote you (unless I read it wrong).

I was not hoping he would vote me. The vote was what differentiated (in my mind) a newbie action from a scummy one.

So, wait. Wait wait wait. You mean that if the player votes you, it's scummy, but if the player

doesn't

vote you, that's what a newbie would do? Uh-- maybe differing playstyles have to be taken into account, but I'd say the opposite-- the newbie throws a vote at you. The scum keeps her cards close to her chest. This, sir, was you in OMGUS.
Really, try to convince me that something is a scumtell when that player also votes you, but only a noobtell when they don't. Buuuullshit.
Also, IF differing playstyles must be taken into account, then this point of yours is just as useless as my retort to it.

A newbie sheeping a confident sounding case doesn't look scummy. That same action added to the immediate vote onto the a strong wagon that happens to be on the person he was sheeping looked opportunistic.

(I waited four times before posting that response)

5) You continue pushing Eidolon despite the fact that your case was BS.

Because I didn't get a tell.

6) When asked about it, you say that you were pushing Eidolon hoping for a tell from her.

True.

7) When she presses you on it, you claim that you got a town-read on her.

Explained the read above. It is an unfortunate coincidence, but that's how my thought process worked.

Err... Read

WHAT above

? That you "see what they're saying"? That you "can't really argue with it"? Either you were being opportunistic, or you weren't, right? Obviously, if I ask you, you'd say you weren't, that no, you didn't have scum motivation. But what if I ask you for the reason you DID have? What was the motivation here, Johnny? As soon as someone takes issue with something you've done, you try to hide it. What Are You Up To?

The explanation

I gave that was a lot shorter and less complicated than your own like three quotes up was the read I was referring to. Made sense when I posted it.

What am I up to? Just trying to find scum. Not doing it well, but I'm having fun so we'll see what happens.

You have answers to every question, Johnny. But the point is that you never really tell us the purpose of your actions until you are pushed on them. Then you give us answers. This entire thing seems to me like you are making stuff up as we go along. That is the prime reason I suspect you.

Aaaah, this.

1) If I announce the purpose of everything I do a good amount of it will be pointless. If you ask, I'll tell you. The only reason I would withhold anything would be if it benefited my ability to read someone or (somehow) the town's ability to achieve its win condition.

Okay, then how about telling us how Eido making a case on you, then voting someone who is NOT you, is a towntell. Or, you could also tell us why not voting a scumread indicates a newbie, but voting for a scumread indicates scum.

It made sense when I said it. But the way you put it just makes me feel dumb.

Hadn't realized there was any change

Sorry, honey, not giving you towncred for not knowing the history of the setup.

Cute.

Mods usually toss in something like "Day 1 start" or something in the QT.

Proof?

http://www.quicktopic.com/47/H/tdAG2KMpN2RB
http://www.quicktopic.com/47/H/Yapd38YrMxQ

I've seen it a few times. It was plausible.

Anyways

this post has made me realize how badly I've played this game. From now on, if you're going to vote me, I'd like you to say who you'd like me to vengekill.

[JohnnyFarrar]

Hey look, a flashwagon.

VOTE: yabba[/quote]

That's L-2 if I'm counting right. Don't lynch just yet. I'd rather let him actually post before killing him off. Call it kindness.

p-edit: The only thing I've noticed of Dashie-scum in the one game I played with her as scum was that she tried to push her knowledge of the setup down everyone's throats as scum, and she posted longer and longer posts, often including every single player. She said it herself in one of our games (can't remember which) that she often looks townier as scum.

I'm not seeing any of that just yet, but she's dangerous and we should keep an eye out.

p-edit2: What exactly about the case on me is good RC? In your own words.

[JohnnyFarrar]

grah tags.

VOTE: yabba

[JohnnyFarrar]

I'm not particularly proud of my meta on this site, but I'll see if I can find a few solid games for you.

town
town
town
scum
scum

is it sad that most of my best games are newbie games -.-

[JohnnyFarrar]

Rapid, a lot of your points on Dashie are pretty bad. They've all been tackled at one point or another by her or Whiskers, so I'm not going to bother.

I'll settle for player advice: Your suspicions right now are driven by things that you think scum would do. Sure, scum might come in and try to take advantage of the suspicion already present on yabba, but you have to realize that it's also perfectly plausible that a townie could come in and just think yabba is scum. You're only seeing one possible motivation for her actions, when in fact there are many.

Similarly, you've got yourself so convinced that your case is a good one, that anyone who doesn't like it must be scum. "There's NO WAY a townie could disagree with this!" - you're thinking in the back of your mind.

FYI - the past few pages from RC look newbie to me, not necessarily scummy.

[JohnnyFarrar]

It's not abundantly good reasoning. Get that through your head.

[JohnnyFarrar]

Because I've got no one better.

[JohnnyFarrar]

But they're not. This is what they've been saying, and now what I've been saying (since you're doing it again): You think everyone that disagrees with you is scum.

Give me one concise, simple post explaining why you think either of them is scum. No nulltells or nontells.

[JohnnyFarrar]

That's not one clear, concise post. (Also why did you only link to a few of them??)

[JohnnyFarrar]

- Backing away to the point of calling me town when I challenge her.

I'm not seeing this. Link me to the post? (Sorry if it's right in front of my face, that's a lot of words.)

- Lying about the "quicklynch" wagon. I didn't vote for Yabba for a quicklynch but she fabricates a false contradiction by calling the Yabba wagon a quicklynch wagon and uses that false contradiction as a basis for FOS.

Five people voted him in twelve hours. You were one of them. That doesn't seem "quick" to you? You also kept your vote there, while at L-2, until she brought it up. And it's not surprising (or scummy) that she did.

- Lying and saying that I was OMGUSsing people on the Scruffy wagon when the person I suspected (you) weren't on it and the person who I said was town (Eido) was.

1) You did call out Eido specifically about that wagon. You can't deny it.
2) Dashie isn't so terrible at this game that she would rely on OMGUS to discredit you

- Use of emotive language and flailing. Calling her accuser "upset."

I am not now nor will I ever vote someone for the way they talk, unless there's a marked difference between a certain situation and their norm. This is the same as me accusing Eido of being scum for joking. (aka BS)

- If she is lynched and is town, she can make a good pick, so there is our insurance policy in case this goes bad. This can only happen with Day1 lynches.

I don't disagree that Dashie would make a good choice, but this isn't enough for me to want to kill her day one.

[JohnnyFarrar]

You said yourself you liked Eido's case. I don't mind Dashie's. I think it's the best we have right now.

[JohnnyFarrar]

That is the reason there is no better place. Yabba's the only good choice.

[JohnnyFarrar]

The three people that have disagreed with you most recently. I'm losing patience.

In 276 she's saying your case doesn't make sense coming from scum. And it doesn't, which is why even though I disagree with everything you're saying, I don't think you're scummy.

5 votes in a half a day is quick. You know it. There are days that end with that many votes. And if it made you so nervous you would have unvoted before someone brought up that you were saying you didn't want a quicklynch while voting for someone who was (even if you didn't see it that way) nearly quicklynched.

Why are you all of a sudden unwilling to vote yabba? If you thought he was scum when you voted, what changed?

[JohnnyFarrar]

POE. If you, whiskers, and RBD are scum, Yabba can't be. Eidolon's case was good but I like my case on RBD better.

iojgapojfdaiohgrag

I'm going to sleep.

[JohnnyFarrar]

I'm gonna come back in 24 hours in the hopes that someone else says something.

[JohnnyFarrar]

So Eido died. That's a thing.

JohnnyFarrar - Do you feel that the attacks upon your methods were scum-based or town-based? Why did you ask for suggestions on who to venge-kill?

I'm not entirely sure. Objectively, there was nothing scummy about my methods early game, they were just stupid. But given the varying skill levels in this game I can see how some may see it scummy. The only reaction I didn't like was Birdman, but his subsequent reaction to my vote changed my mind.

I asked who to vengekill because I genuinely wanted to see who everyone would say. Anyone who voted me after that (and actually told me who to kill) would have been town in my mind, since that's a dangerous thing to commit to when you're scum.

Rainbow Dash said, "let's 'snapwagon' Yabbaguy" and I said, "OK." Thus ends the tale of post 231.

I laughed.

Yabba thinks I'm scum for lurking and "the rest of the charges". Pfft.

The out loud argument between rapid and yabba gives me the heebie-geebies, and I'm not sure why.

Johnny, what is your read on Kimor?

I stopped re-reading and re-read his posts again for this. Be greatful.
- Replace in post was good. Pointed questions at everyone, gave a clear statement of who he suspected. I would have liked it better if he voted, but whatever.
- Calls me and you town. Don't really know where that came from. I haven't done anything "Towny" in a while, and you're sort of a flaming question mark for me.
- (Not) subtly pushing that RC and Yabba are scum
- Defending me.
My thoughts on him now are as follows: He is either town or the "Town leader" Mafia persona. His townread on me is out of nowhere and makes me think that when I flip town, he thinks everyone will just write him off as town for defending me. Or he is just town and sees that what case there is against me is shoddy at best and the only reason I'm up for contention is because there are no GREAT cases yet.

I'm gonna go back and read Sweezy real quick. The list of opinions in my head is curiously lacking anything on him(her?).

P-edit: The hydra's town now.

[JohnnyFarrar]

I feel bad for continued sheeping, but I like the case on Birdly in 474.

I'm unwilling to kill Dashie D1. She's smart and useful. If she's alive late into the game, we either know she's scum or know our scum is stupid. But she lives for now.

Lurker killing? Come on, guys.

[JohnnyFarrar]

Sure.

Also forgot VOTE: Birdieswithrocks

P-edit: What fooooor?

[JohnnyFarrar]

Why don't you have your way?

[JohnnyFarrar]

I'm agreeing with Rapidcanyon.



.

[JohnnyFarrar]

So we have a bad read on a dead player. Anything else?

[JohnnyFarrar]

Who do I venge? Everyone tell me who you think. You're not changing my mind, but I think your choice will help people read you. I see Whiskers and Yabba on right now, tell me.

[JohnnyFarrar]

PICK THE ONE PERSON YOU'D KILL IF YOU WERE ME. DON'T BE DIFFICULT.

[JohnnyFarrar]

I would kill Yabba or Klick. 2birds1stone would be my third choice.

One guy. Also why Klick?

[JohnnyFarrar]

Yaaaaabba. I see you there.

[JohnnyFarrar]

Ok. PM sent. I made my best judgement and I hope I was right. This town stressed me out a bit, you guys should actually take the time to think about what the others are saying.

[JohnnyFarrar]

Damn. If Johnny wouldn't have shot me, we would have had it made. Kudos to him.

We would not have won this early had it not been for Johnny.

Yep, I'm pretty much willing to attribute the whole game to Johnny.

You guys are makin me blush.

I already told Name User this, and Klick kind of already knows, but my reasons weren't particularly strong. He was a slight scumread that I shared with my strongest townread, and I didn't think the town would kill him without me. I didn't like his case on shaded and he wasn't affected by the Eido shot. That was it.

[JohnnyFarrar]

The town won despite you.

I smell the irony. It's that thick.

[JohnnyFarrar]

Stop. Now. You are not as good as you think you are. You don't grasp even the most basic parts of the underlying strategy that most people have when playing this game. You seem to only grasp things at an incredibly shallow level and you get mad when people don't bow down to your opinion. Everyone in this game disagrees with you, maybe that's a hint that you may not be in the right. And going into other threads and insulting the players who disagreed with you is NOT FUCKING COOL.

Here's the truth: None of your cases made any sense to any of us. Maybe you had it right in your head, but if your cases don't convince ANYONE, maybe it's time to change your position.

I actually considered killing you day one. Enough people thought klick was town that I thought I might be mistaken, so I thought I'd kill you and save the town the trouble. If I had been alive D2 or 3 I would have suggested policy lynching you since the town was in a fantastic position.

I will not be playing any more games with you in the future.

[JohnnyFarrar]

kimor pushed me over. he suggested you, and he was my biggest townread.

[JohnnyFarrar]

You mad at this?

Sure, scum might come in and try to take advantage of the suspicion already present on yabba, but you have to realize that it's also perfectly plausible that a townie could come in and just think yabba is scum. You're only seeing one possible motivation for her actions, when in fact there are many.

Who was right? I was right. This isn't debatable because RBD's flip in red is there for all to see. Seriously, Johnny, I have never seen such a selfish, jealous group of people before. You did well killing Klick but you made a mistake with RBD. Admit it, admit you were wrong, congratulate me for catching her so early (within two posts) or not, and move on. Jeez. would you like me to keep going on after you about how I don't like your reasoning for killing Klick? Would you like me to keep saying "You were wrong, Johnny, Klick was pro-town. You should never have killed him, yada, yada. No. I am saying "I was wrong about Klick, he did a wonderful job fooling me. Good job catching him Johnny."

I know some of you guys were completely and utterly fooled by RBD during the first day. Maybe that is why I keep hearing things about how good she is. But now is not the time to defend your positions. Now is not the time you say "The case against RBD was not strong" or the time I say "no, you were wrong to kill Klick, booya." No, now is the time we understand why different people had the reads they did, say good game and go on our way.

OH MY GOD YOU DON'T GET IT. The point was, there was no clear tell. Sure, she could have been all nefarious and plotting like you said, but she also could have been being honest. You ONLY saw "Hey she made a case on yabba, she must be scum" when she really could have just been a townie who thought yabba was scum. IT'S NOT A SCUMTELL IF TOWN DO IT, TOO. THAT'S WHAT I WAS TRYING TO SAY. So, when you say "you caught her within two posts", you suspected her for a stupid and faulty reason and got lucky. Congratulations.

Good game.

Actually, I am better than a whole bunch of people who played this game, RBD, and Whiskers for a start.

No you're not. You are the most egotistical VI I have ever played with and will never see the error of your mindset because you are so stubborn. I hope someone smarter than I am figures out a way to show you how bad you are so that you'll understand, but I doubt it.

I actually considered killing you day one. Enough people thought klick was town that I thought I might be mistaken, so I thought I'd kill you and save the town the trouble. If I had been alive D2 or 3 I would have suggested policy lynching you since the town was in a fantastic position.

Yeah, because when a townie makes a case for lynching scum, lynching the townie is the way to win games. Are you listening to yourself? Really, if you have some problem deep inside that you were fooled by RBD, GET OVER IT. Stop insulting the person who did catch her.

1) I wasn't concerned with winning. That's how far you pushed me.

2) You didn't catch her. You thought she was scum and voted her, but nobody listened because your case was stupid. When others found their own reasons for voting her, that's when she was caught.

I'm done. I'm not gonna blacklist you. You're just the only permanent policy lynch that I will have. I'm done reading this thread. If anyone else wants to talk to me about the game, PM me.

[JohnnyFarrar]

Is it too late to change my D1 shot?

[JohnnyFarrar]

Retroactive Policy Lynch Vote: RapidCanyon

[JohnnyFarrar]