Open 454: JK9 Endgame

[Mr.K]

VOTE: greygnarl

[Mr.K]

Yeah, gg found himself scum for the second time in a row and panicked. He figured that he could try to pull of the same stunt he did in the previous game because it failed there and it would be too stupid to try it again.

[Mr.K]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=23054 that's the game. And yeah, I'm saying he's scum - I'm voting him too.

[Mr.K]

What do you mean out of sync vote?

[Mr.K]

What you did was take another self vote out of context (used during Day 4 as a self-preservation stunt/gambit) to justify your empty vote and the two simply don't mesh. Hence "out of sync vote".

Alright, I suppose I get what you mean.

[Mr.K]

2) I fail to see the super serious tone in #31 that everyone else is assuming. Why's he scum for #31?

@Mr. K
Correct this is a totally different scenario, if you hadn't RVSed me I'd be lynching you for scum. The entire point of this gambit was to see if someone would jump on my ass calling this a lame "scum gambit". While you were already on me, yelling quickhammer, quickhammer, looks really scummy, since you love meta I did that last game as scum and it cost me.

Are you proposing that people should ignore scummy behaviour in order to prove they're town? How does this make sense? I also don't remember yelling quickhammer or even hammer. Aaaand, just like I mentioned in the previous game (yes, the one I linked), I don't love meta and actually don't even care for it much.

[Mr.K]

(When you're so tired you hit submit instead of preview, I guess it's only natural that you fuck up the quotes as well........)

Fixed

[Mr.K]

@K Then why are you using meta if it's a null tell?

I'm not. I was only semi-serious about that comment. But my vote stays. Now in all seriousness. Based on what's happened in this game.

[Mr.K]

So your entire case is based on meta, but you don't care for meta, and you weren't even all that serious to begin with?
But now suddenly you're super serious and want him lynched, which is totally different from when you were not-seriously trying to get him lynched using a tactic you don't even like. Uh huh.

Where do these people spawn from? First I have gg claiming that I was looking for a quickhammer and now you saying I want him lynched already. My vote on him doesn't mean I want a quicklynch - it means that I find him the scummiest here (and at the moment he's the only scumread I have). And for the record, no, I don't want him lynched yet. I thought it's pretty obvious that basically no-one should be lynched this early but apparently some people are confused. Normally I'm not sure if I would have wanted him even at L-1 yet but considering that he put himself there as well, I guess it's pretty hard to criticize anyone else doing it.

And no, my case is not based on the meta alone. It's based on the fact that he did selfvote (which I do agree is likely a scum gambit to begin with), then claimed we were trying to get a quicklynch (which I don't think anyone was and, once again, I don't think he can criticize people for voting him after he voted himself as well) and basically argued that finding his scummy behaviour scummy is scummy. Also, like others have pointed out as well, his vote on PiggyGal15 over me, for example, doesn't really make sense. He himself said that if I had not RVSed him, he would be lynching me but even after I pointed out that at the moment my vote is completely serious, he did not move his vote.

The only slightly meta bit in my case is that in the previous game I got the impression that he might crumble under pressure so I figured it might happen here as well. And it seems that he is.

Mr. K is completely fallaciously comparing GnarlsBarkley's (god I love that) BS self-vote to something that he did late game under actual pressure in the game he linked.

Plus there's that.

So your case on me is based on the presumption that my case is based purely on meta when I don't care for meta. AND on the presumption that my claim does not make sense if I look at the meta (which I'm obviously not very interested in doing)?

[Mr.K]

The entire first part is him spinning some bullshit along the lines of

"I wanted to vote him, but not lynch him"

- wut?

What part do you not understand?

"Gnarls is acting pretty crazy right now, I mean he self-voted and stuff, so that excuses me from the badness of my vote"

- hypocrisy.

I don't think he's acting crazy. I also don't think it excuses me anything. I also don't think my vote is bad. Yours is, though, so what's your excuse?

Who brought up the meta justification? You did. And you based your case off it.

How is my case based on meta? I don't mind if you don't agree with my case but saying that it is based on meta is just a lie. Earlier you were calling me a hypocrite because I placed a "bad" bad vote on gg because presumably I think gg's acting crazy. Now you're saying my case is based on meta. Which is it? Obviously it's either or and trying to sneak them both into your own inexistant case so it'd seemingly have more content does not speak very well for you.

The meta got brought up because of the self-vote and you justified your dodgy opening vote entirely from it.

The first part is true, the second part is not. But I'm not going to have a hypothetical conversation, where my vote both is and isn't based on meta, with you. So before we continue, kindly decide whether it is or it's not and maybe explain why you felt the need to try to use them both in your case.

[Mr.K]

Also I gotta say #109 is utterly devoid of useful content.

@Mr. K -- Why's Gnarlsbarkley scum? Few short sentences. Spend a little more time on this and a little less time arguing semantics with PoPP.

I gotta say, this is utterly devoid of useful content.

[Mr.K]

@bork, just read her posts and they scream scum. Jumping on my wagon got her my vote. Her posting has kept it their.

How do you think they

scream

scum? I think they're far from useful but she could still be an useless town as well. Whether she should get a free pass just because she says she likes to sheep on D1 is quite another matter.

[Mr.K]

@borkjerfkin:
Is there a special reason why you would like to give pieceofpecanpie the chance to avoid my questions? In what way is this helpful to town no matter what anyone's alignment is or whatever you may think about the quality or content of my questions?

[Mr.K]

@borkjerfkin You beat me to it, this is going to start looking awkward if you keep saying sensible things and I have to keep agreeing with you. I quickly see where this discussion with Mr.K will lead and I'm not having a semantic war, especially when he's tried to misconstrue the things I already said to such a degree

rather than just plain answer them

. No point, Mr.K is scum, I'm satisfied on that. I mean his #109 is rubbish to me, his #119 is rubbishing your shrewd observation and his attitude just spells scum trying to dilute their scummy action as much as possible by muddying a clear and simple case against them.

Just to make sure that you yourself realize how completely full of crap you are, I will one by one answer

all

the bits of your post that I haven't so far. I am not going to use direct quotations because using them in numbers is so fucking tedious that I'm simply not going to bother doing that with a guy who doesn't read his own posts. Here goes:

"Mr.K's waffle in #93 does nothing to quell my suspicion of him."
Alright. I can live with that (no pun intended).

"Total claptrap."
Well, I obviously don't agree with this statement. Based on the reasons I gave you in my reply.

"What did you just say then...?"
I don't know what this question refers to but I was presuming it was one of the quotations you gave with it so I presumed this was a rhetorical question.

"Bullshit!"
I don't think it's bullshit. Based on the reasons I gave you in my reply.

"This isn't going to fly. If everyone's done stirring up the crazy guy, we should probably lynch this scum."
Ok, you got me. I don't know what exactly you're saying is not going to fly so this one I simply cannot reply. Presuming you're calling me "the crazy guy", I don't think everyone's even started "stirring" me "up" (whatever that is supposed to mean) so I doubt "everyone's done" with it. And no, I don't think you should probably lynch me.

That's it! The rest of your post I

literally

answered.

You have:
1. Accused me with two cases that are based on opposing things (whether my vote is based on meta or whether it's not).

2. Refused to defend either of the cases or explain which story is the one you're sticking to.

3. Claimed I have not answered your post when it's obvious I answered all the key parts of it.

Since, based on your answer, I doubt you even understood #119, let me spell it out for you:

borkjerfkin, for some

completely

bizarre reason decided to point out how a post, where I answer your weak case as well as such a weak case can be answered AND ask for more information about your case and about your behaviour, is utterly devoid of useful content. Now, my first reply (the one you're referring to) was an attempt to sarcastically point this out because, ironically enough, borkjerfkin's first observation did not have any useful content and the second part was a question - which he himself in the same post defined as devoid of useful content.

When I posted the first reply, I had just woken up and wasn't really thinking the post more than that's kind of ironic that he's pointing out that a post lacks useful content with a post that lacks useful content. But after a second thought, I started wondering about why the hell would anyone post such a post. If he thinks my post lacks useful content (which is perfectly fine), why does he point it out in the game? Why would he NOT want more information to be posted in the game? Even in the scenario where he manages to get me lynched out and I flip scum, he would still need to find the other scum and certainly your reaction to my question would be potentially be helpful in this.

So yeah, he's either trying to act smart without thinking about the consequences too much or tunneling me more than he even realizes (aka. stupid) or purposely defending you by trying to discredit my post where I question your case (aka. scum).

[Mr.K]

@borkjerfkin You beat me to it, this is going to start looking awkward if you keep saying sensible things and I have to keep agreeing with you. I quickly see where this discussion with Mr.K will lead and I'm not having a semantic war, especially when he's tried to misconstrue the things I already said to such a degree rather than just plain answer them. No point, Mr.K is scum, I'm satisfied on that. I mean his #109 is rubbish to me, his #119 is rubbishing your shrewd observation and his attitude just spells scum trying to dilute their scummy action as much as possible by muddying a clear and simple case against them.

I must say that the fact that you used the very same vocabulary, when it's obvious that my post wasn't just about semantics, is very interesting. Looking forward to hear from you guys!

[Mr.K]

(fuck I hate how the quotes work here. #125 was not supposed to have a quote at all)

[Mr.K]

Wow, this game is insane. Can't say I see much chance of town winning if this keeps up. It's like no-one is even trying to catch a scum (I guess borkjerfkin's post where he asked me to post short sentences is quiet descriptive to this game).

T3HhUnT3R - has not done anything at all, the prod request by pieceofpecanpie might be the only thing he said today

silavor - has barely done anything at all today

drmyshotgun - at least some attempt to do something

PiggyGal15 - says she won't start playing until D2

pieceofpecanpie - ACTUALLY seemed to try at first, then got mixed up in his own cases and has resorted to twisting and lying ever since. His activity would almost deserve a town reward in this lot, too bad he's probably scum.

Majiffy - Probably town. Why he thinks it's ok to manufacture a lynch and it's not ok to demand answers to that manufactured case is beyond me but hey, I told you this game is insane!

borkjerfkin - besides what seems as a clear scum slip, has been playing rather alright. Not too active but at least something.

greygnarl - selfvotes, twists things (claims I screamed for a quicklynch which I clearly didn't). Then goes after PiggyGal15 even though I would have been a better target at that point, based on his own words. However, this would not be the first time I see someone mixing scum and anti-town, so I guess it could be possible. And the chase itself makes more sense than most things in this game.

@greygnarl:
for future reference, can you clarify what you mean when you say I've "been a little scummy"? I mean... just stating that sounds like you're just making sure you can hop on my wagon when it gets convenient (though I believe it would be the hammer, actually).

But, since it seems to be how this game is played (and because I've grown tired of talking to the walls), I'll stick with the short one liners and ignoring questions with the rest of you from now on. If someone bothers to present a case against me (and no, this "um... well, your vote is pretty bad if it's not based on meta so you must be scum because your vote is based on meta waitwhat" does not count as a case), cool! If you rather just lynch me because you don't like to read long sentences or think too hard, I guess there's very little I can do about that either.

[Mr.K]

Oh yeah, almost forgot.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: pieceofpecanpie
Was going to wait with this until I get my answers but I guess with my wagon going towards lynch, I have very little hope of ever getting those. borkjerfkin's scum slip kind of seems even more obvious than pieceofpecanpie tripping into his own arguments but the slip doesn't really make any sense if pieceofpecanpie isn't scum as well so I guess I'll stick to the first one of the two. Definitely scummier than gg or especially PiggyGal15 at the moment.

[Mr.K]

What I asked about in #121. I didn't call it a scum slip until #132 but implied to that direction in the end of #124 (since the rest of your ISO doesn't really agree with your stupidity).

I didn't bother answering your #127 because you didn't bother answering my #121. But yeah, I'll fall for it again since you ask so nicely! I did find it scummy from the start even without the meta. But yeah, I do agree that it might have been confusing until #93 where I specifically elaborate that I did find the selfvote "likely a scum gambit to begin with". Wouldn't have had such a problem with pieceofpecanpie's case if it was based only on his meta argument or only on his "bad case" argument but the two simply don't mix and I believe he has now come to notice this himself.

[Mr.K]

I didn't say he is trying the hardest. Just that he's having some effort, which may seem like a compliment but really isn't.

[Mr.K]

@pieceofpecanpie:
I state that I don't put emphasis on meta in the very same game that I linked you. I knew you would not read that and I was hoping gg would not remember that - which he didn't - so I could get the possible reactions and still be able to prove that I don't use meta. While I appreciate that you actually bothered to present your case, unlike most people here, my initial thoughts are that it's a bit too little a bit too late. But I am willing to give it some consideration because it seems like it

might

even make sense for the first two parts.

Part three, however, is total, as you would put it, claptrap. I haven't decided whether it's a good thing to tone it down by saying it's not the backbone of your case or not.

The OMGUS-defense was a bit too obvious. I am soon at L-1 and you proposing I should be unable to vote anyone in or to-be in my bandwagon when the change of vote has almost no real effect at this point is just nonsense. I personally don't even think that OMGUS is almost ever a scum tell and definitely shouldn't be treated as such. Feel free to disagree.

[Mr.K]

There's no way you morons are going to win this game anymore anyway but do lynch gg next after I flip town.

[Mr.K]

I'm about to go to bed so I'll make it brief:

gg - jumped on the quicklynch far too easily (actually even easier than I was presuming even in the worst case scenario). I had already partly left him off the hook but this makes him my suspect number 1 again.

That leaves us with the odd couple of pieceofpecanpie and borkjerfkin. This pair simply doesn't work if they're not both scum so after gg's stunt, I don't really know what to think of them. borkjerfkin's slip doesn't make sense in any way if he's town but it doesn't make any more sense if borkjerfkin is scum and pieceofpecanpie's town (why would he stick his neck on the line for a townie?)

At any rate, I'm fairly sure this trio has a scum or two.

PEDIT: yeah, go for gg first

[Mr.K]

There's no way you morons are going to win this game anymore anyway but do lynch gg next after I flip town.

Cool. Why are we morons again?

Lynching anyone 17 days before the deadline when two people have posted less than 10 posts is pretty much automatically moronic.

[Mr.K]

There's no way you morons are going to win this game anymore anyway but do lynch gg next after I flip town.

Cool. Why are we morons again?

Tracker.

[Mr.K]

(again with the fucking quote tags.......)

[Mr.K]

I was writing the last reads that you asked for when gg hammered. Before I had posted it. You were the one who set up the L-1 for him so don't try to pin your stupidity (and before that the laziness) on me.

[Mr.K]

I'm not going to claim before anyone states intent to hammer. When I was quite deservedly pointing out that you're being stupid, there was a flood of posts where the intent was stated. I posted that post and read the messages. Then I also noticed that you were asking for the final reads as well so I started posting a post with the final reads and the claim and then go to bed because it was past 4:30AM. During this, gg hammered. No, even I didn't expect anyone would be stupid enough to hammer before I've posted my claim but I guess in this game everything is possible. Very few people bothered to think to begin with.

[Mr.K]

Well, meh. Majiffy undoubtedly did pretty well although I must agree with the people who say the town could have generally done a lot better as well...