Open 455 - Tit for Tat - OVER

[Lord Mhork]

My triumphant return shall begin thus.

VOTE: A_Potato

Om Nom, why do you hide behind a hydra?

[Lord Mhork]

Dude... I was with you up until that horrid last vote... Why did you drop Klick like he was hot at the slightest pressure?

UNVOTE: A_Potato

VOTE: Disturbed_One

[Lord Mhork]

Toward whom was that last question directed, Klick?

[Lord Mhork]

I've been here since my RVS vote. Why?

[Lord Mhork]

Ah. Yes, I have been. I'm totally creeping on this talk. 0.0

Disturbed, you can't go backtracking like that. It looks real, real sketchy, yeah? How many games have you played so far, out of curiosity?

[Lord Mhork]

Dunno. Why did you vote him if your convictions were flimsy enough to go away at a 'hey... Stop.'?

PEdit:
What Klick said. You made it seem like you were voting him for a serious reason, but fled at the sight of pressure or criticism.

PPEdit:
What is this 'gambit' that you keep mentioning?

[Lord Mhork]

@Disturbed:
That's a fair enough rationale, I suppose. Self voting is rather odd after all and I can understand why you thought it could be a scum fueled gambit. However it still seems odd to me that you didn't even try to defend your vote when people disagreed. This sort of fence-sitting wishy-washyness seems more than a little suspicious.

@Cheery Dog:
Thank you for the definition, but I was actually looking more for what Disturbed *meant* by a 'gambit.'

@Klick:
Much agreement. >.<

@NumberQ:
...huh?

[Lord Mhork]

Herr pal, you really have no thoughts on the last three pages? We kissed RVS au revoir a while back...

UNVOTE: Disturbed_One

VOTE: HerrRudi


But...but, Om Nom! We need to be an amazing scum hunting team!

[Lord Mhork]

My Rudi vote was bad? How so, Om Nom? Would you rather just sit and watch him throw his vote around like we're back on page one? My mafia skills are admittedly very rusty right now, but if I recall correctly it benefits scum more to hide behind RVS as a way of excusing their actions and avoiding having to make an actual vote of substance. I just want to encourage our pal Rudi to actually look over the last couple pages and add something of substance.

Also, care to explain those bad, bad vibes?

Oh, and I'm not necessarrily disagreeing, but what gives you Cheery-town vibes?

[Lord Mhork]

Lord Mhork

- In Post 29 you said, "Dude... I was with you up until that horrid last vote... "
Did you too believed that Klick was deserving of the votes?

That's kind of a tough one there. I personally did not feel like Klick's self vote was all that sketchy, for self voting is actually a fairly common tactic to get out of RVS, at least as far as I've seen. For that reason I wasn't keen on hopping on the Klick wagon, though I could understand why others would. What bothered me most was that fact that Disturbed started putting some pressure down, then bailed when he started getting heat.

That

is more sketchy and more voteworthy, 'cause scum tends to try and avoid attention and avoid going against the general feel of the town.

I actually think Distrubed is probably town based on his response to pressure, I think that sort of conspicuous and self-conscious flip-flop is more likely to come from nervous/inexperienced town than nervous/inexperienced scum (who would be more likely to stick to the original position). I was leaving my vote on him to see if anyone would jump on the wagon for shitty reasons. Nekoko did vote him but his post was fine.

UNVOTE: Disturbed_One

Mhork, did your opinion on Disturbed change? What provoked you to unvote him?

It kinda changed. He was more or less null-leaning-scum, but I liked his responses to the flak he was getting, so I decided to place my vote elsewhere. HerrRudi looked more scummy than Disturbed, so I figure it's better to throw some fire in that direction, you know?


Now, in addition to the Herr's 'Rah! We're still in RVS-land' issue, there are a couple of things I've noted that might be worth a discussion. For instance this guille dude. I don't like him.

Klick is a master of getting out of RVS.

It was a disturbing vote from Disturbed One. He sheeps the Klick vote. He realizes it's bad and retreats. IGMEOY

I've seen Klick do that play (self Vote RVS), and for him it's a null tell. Cherry Dogs followup is suspect.

I can understand Disturbed's explanation that a self vote was not town-aligned. That is usually a scum maneuver late in the wagon. I can chalk that up as a newbie player. His interaction made me feel uneasy so I will think of him as Null leaning scum for the time being.

We are totally out of the RVS NQ. I agree with shamrock's #58.

I think I am in three games with Om, I like this guy.

HerrRudi's vote without reading the rest of the game caught my eye. The reason is not good. For all he knew Klick could have been in L-1.

I like Neko's post, but I disagree with his/her opinion of Cheery and Klick.

First off, check out the bolded parts. He starts off with a brown-noseyish comment simply to compliment Klick. This is totally unnecessary buddying and rather sketchy. A better example, though, is the next one in which he throws out a 'hey I know Om and he's cool' comment. He doesn't even back it with a reason from this game, but rather saying he likes him from other, completely irrelevant. There's no real town motivation to buddy in this manner, not when Om has done little to nothing this game. Then, lastly, is that 'I like Neko, but he's wrong.' It's more buddying. Plain and simple.

@guille:
Why you buddy so hard with those guys?


I don't like A_Potato either. Something feels...off. My favorite is this quote here:

There's always room for one more~
Also I forgot to say that you're town.

He claims there's 'room for

one

more despite the fact that Cheery brought up two names (guille and Neko). Now why would he do that? How can he be so confident that there are at least two scum in his pool of four? Looks an awful lot like a scum slip from where I'm standing. A better problem than a derp RVS vote on page three at least. For that reason:

UNVOTE: HerrRudi

VOTE: A_Potato

Potatoman, why is there room for 'one'?


So far I'm getting scummish vibes from A_Potato, guille, and HerrRudi, nullish vibes from Cheery Dog, combinatorialEnigma, Nekoko, numberQ, Shamrock, Venmar, and townish/semi-townish vibes from Disturbed_One and Klick.

[Lord Mhork]

Wow, you're obviously trying to justify a shitty vote so that I can't attack your vote on Rudi anymore. This vote is even weaker than that vote tbh.
VOTE: Lord Mhork
Thanks for confirming yourself broski~<3
You realise it would look really stupid if I had over half the game in my scumlist, right? I have a reputation to keep y' know?

...yes, because I was sweating so bad at the thought of you not approving of my vote. Attack away, pal. I voted Rudi because he was sketchy, but you're sketchier still. Please explain how it's weaker though. I'd love to hear.

Oh, and what the hell reputation do you even mean? Where did I tell you to put half the game in your scumlist?

There's no real town motivation to buddy in this manner,

not when Om has done little to nothing this game.

You blind mate?

Nope. You?

Mhork, your reasons for (potentially) voting guille seem much stronger than your reasons for voting potato, yet you're voting potato. Why?

Hmm... I think Om Nom is just playing very oddly this game. Granted, I haven't played with him in many months, but the town Om from way back in the day would not be so hyper aggressive and hyper defensive about a vote. He could have brand new meta that I've yet to witness, but overall he just feels wrong. Plus I don't really feel like guille is behaving as scummily as Om apart from his odd buddy opening.

Wait so Guille is buddying 3 people at once with subtle compliments? What's the goal in that?

That "scum-slip" is also nonsense.
Assumption: there is always room for one more. So I add one. Since there was always room for one more, not conditioned on any previous additions (hence always), there is still always room for one more, hence two.
Regardless, you're playing an absolutely trivial game of semantics that means nothing

P-Edit: Shamrock I'd hardly call those reasons

Dunno. Make them like him? Massage their egos? Make them let their guard down? I don't know. I'm just making note of the behaviours. It's not like they were even particularly subtle anyway.

Explain why it's so nonsense. This explanation is kinda lacking. In fact, this fallacy-filled defense looks really bad. Why so eager to defend Om Nom?

And you seem very, very aggressive right now? Did I hit a nerve pointing out potentially scummy behaviour about Om Nom and guille?


@Disturbed:
What are your thoughts on A_Potato and guille? Why do you like HerrRudi so much?

@Om Nom:
Care to explain those strong opinions?

@Cheery Dog:
...Right. What do you think of guille and HerrRudi? Why is A_Potato so clearly a town read in your opinion?

[Lord Mhork]

It's weaker because a vote for someone who essentially skipped 2 pages of info for a random vote is still better than a vote on someone for something that isn't even a scumslip.
People recognize me now as the awesome player I am and people are willing to sheep me straight off the bat. That's the reputation I need to keep.
I never said you told me to have half the game in my scumlist, you attacked me for specifying one more instead of both. Had I put both in there that would have put me at either 6-7 players in my scumlist (I can't remember how many I had on my scumlist initially and I cbf to check). Frankly that's just stupid and I would have shortened it by mentioning people I think are town instead.
If you're going to use meta to attack me then go read through my recent meta so you actually know what I play like now, if you can't be fucked doing that then you don't really have any basis of an attack on me and I'd advise you to stop bothering with me and pursue your buddies instead.
I've already explained those strong opinions, if you weren't blind like you claim to be you would have noticed.

He says he didn't realize that there were several pages already, but I don't believe him. How hard is it really to just say that we were still in RVS? His vote was just him wanting to maintain the safety buffer zone of RVS so he wouldn't have to account for where his vote was in the early game.

Nice ego, pal. I liked you better when you had some of that humility.
Anywho, I still loath sheeping. People should be giving their own opinions rather than just listening to the screaming potato in the corner...

Then why didn't you mention who you thought was town? A pool of 6-7 is bad, sure, but what makes you so certain that if Neko/guille is scum, the other is town? That there is shit logic if ever I've seen it.

Mhork my whole point is that your attack on Spuds is hella forced and based off of crap logic.

I don't like disturbed and his wagon switch on to Rubik's cube guy. Just copypasta of what I said and doesn't take into account his claim he has a paper, probably a big one since it is around midterms for university students.

Well at least I've taken the effort to build a case on someone. What are you doing? 'I don't like this thing or that; perhaps we should look this way maybe...'

And what do you mean by that paper line?

Emphasis on the everyone btw.
JSYK, I'm getting my partner to go after Disturbed and I'm doing the rest.

Mhorky 'm dear, why are you so curious to know where people stand in regards to your scumreads? Are you planning for mislynches?

I just wrote out my reads a few posts back... Here:

So far I'm getting scummish vibes from A_Potato, guille, and HerrRudi, nullish vibes from Cheery Dog, combinatorialEnigma, Nekoko, numberQ, Shamrock, Venmar, and townish/semi-townish vibes from Disturbed_One and Klick.

And no... I'm trying to hunt scum, Om Nom...

The spotlight hasn't really shifted to us, Mhork is just using us as a scapegoat to get the pressure off him. It just happened to backfire lol.
I'm still fine with a Disturbed wagon, I feel he hasn't really made many attempts to scumhunt and instead focused on getting the wagon off him.

Pressure? Where was the pressure before?! 'Ah! Potatoman mentioned that he didn't like my Rudi vote! So much pressures I should

immediately attack him and draw a bunch of suspicion my way

!' Om nom, you've played with me before; am I really that stupid and transparent?

@Nekoko: His "assumption" that I was scum was bullshit, and he didn't get better over time.

Mhork, Om, I want you two to assume each other are town for now. Both of your alignments can and will be sorted out later. In the meantime, I wish for us three to mainly work together to find the scum (or the remaining scum, if either of you are).

Hah! Convince Om Nom and then, sure, I'll look at another suspect for awhile.

Klick, don't be dense, Mhork is confirmed scum due to his shitty vote on me.
Also I've already found the scumpool, we just need to lynch from there and we win.

...Confirmed, Om? Really? And I love your scumpool. You're a regular Internet Stranger now. Great work. >.<

First off, check out the bolded parts. He starts off with a brown-noseyish comment simply to compliment Klick. This is totally unnecessary buddying and rather sketchy. A better example, though, is the next one in which he throws out a 'hey I know Om and he's cool' comment. He doesn't even back it with a reason from this game, but rather saying he likes him from other, completely irrelevant. There's no real town motivation to buddy in this manner, not when Om has done little to nothing this game. Then, lastly, is that 'I like Neko, but he's wrong.' It's more buddying. Plain and simple.

@guille:
Why you buddy so hard with those guys?

That is a loaded question. If it seemed that I buddied to them, it was not intentional. That post was a catch up post where I posted what I thought as I read.

I am not bother by your pick on me. I am bothered by the phrasing of your question.

Do you make a habit of making game-unrelated compliments when you do catch ups?


PEdit:
I'll give her a more thorough look after school. Let me ask you something, though: why can't Klick's early-game self-vote be townie? What do you think of it?

[Lord Mhork]

PEdit:
I'll give her a more thorough look after school. Let me ask you something, though: why can't Klick's early-game self-vote be townie? What do you think of it?

- It's not townie, self-voting itself is an anti-town move. It's a null read at it's best, the fact he got us out of RVS is good, but you can't identify an anti-town move as an immediate town or scum tell. This is without really considering the fact Klick does stunts and gambits like that in a lot of his games, usually in the RVS, i just personally cannot interpret the move as alignment indicative right now.

I disagree. It helped to spur some discussion to exit RVS which in itself is a very anti-town stage in the game. By throwing his vote down on such an odd target, he made people react. Is that not pro town?

For Lord Mhork:
1. You can call me an idiot for not looking at the page numbers, but if you insist that was my strategy, I have to object since even I'm not that offensively stupid.
2. I have a bit of a case on CombinatoralEnigma, thank you very much.
3. Your insistence on this semantics logic against potato might be one of the weakest cases I've ever seen someone take so seriously, hence why I comment on it.
4. CombinatoralEnigma said that he was writing a paper and hence couldn't post much. Disturbed votes after that and doesn't seem to take that in account at all. I for one, held my vote since he's posted 4 times before that and couldn't find time in one of those to give anything substantive. He also comes in very quickly if I remember correctly after I voted him and then gives unsubstantiated reads. I think he's likely lurker-scum. That is the paper line.

Your zeal makes you prob town though

P-Edit: Self votes are null tells. I don't see it as relevant anymore

1) I never accused you of not looking at page numbers. I am accusing you of trying to prolong RVS even after Klick's odd self-vote. I'm not attacking your intelligence here.
2) Err... Care to explain it? As far as I can tell, you stopped after 'He really isn't contributing all that much...' What else you got?
3) ...am I supposed to not take a case seriously? Scum slip might have been a little strong a word, but it was a very odd thing for Om Nom to say and I want to get real information about it.
4) Ah. There's your case. You could probably throw some heat on him, though, if you think he's lurking scum. You're allowed to that...

Err... Thank you? And I vehemently disagree. Sometimes self votes can be very-pro or very anti-town. For instance, Klick's early game self vote was a pro town move because it sparked discussion.

Vote: Nekoko

I don't recall you flipping your vote around this much from our first game on this site. This game you appea to be doing to much, and it has now increased my suspicions of you.

UNVOTE: VOTE: Disturbed

How did he act in your first game? How long ago was it?

[Lord Mhork]

Self votes can be very pro or anti town, hence why I'm apt to treat it as null. Getting out of RVS is town and I agree with you there that that is a good thing. What he did was good; what his mechanism for doing that was null.

I'd crank it up on CE but he really isn't here so all I can do is scream "MOAR VOTES/PRESSURE ON CE GUYZ" which won't do too much.

But seriously, he needs to do more ASAP.

P-Edit: Cheery would you agree with me that Disturbed's play seems a little synthetic or forced right now? I'm wondering if that's the result of him trying his "new playstyle" or he's just scum trying to pretend scum hunt for the first time

I realize that we no longer have our favorite rubik's cube, but I still gotta ask why you said effectively nothing on the slot apart from the little 'hey he isn't doing anything' vote. You didn't scream anything and you didn't apply any real pressure at all. In fact it looked an awful lot like you sat your vote there so that you wouldn't have to worry about it.

I think you mean Klick instead of Kondi unless you're making some allusion to the actual Kondi I'm not able to grasp.

How about you explain your Mhork vote so we can settle this too

Wait. When did Venmar vote me?

@HerrRudi: How do you know kondi?

I will respond to stuff later because I have no motivation whatsoever to do anything at all right now.

I followed KKB's Large Normal game that he recently modded. Kondi fake claimed dayvig page one so the other dayvig would claim and then there was two. Pretty entertaining game and a ballsy move.

UNVOTE: . Pending replacement.

Klick, is that all you have to say right now though?

I'm gonna go ahead and parrot guille here: why did you unvote combatorialEnigma when the slot was getting replaced? Could it be that you feared that the slot would question your vote? Or that we would all see that you just wanted a lurker to hold your vote on? What was your idea there?

[Lord Mhork]

Well the theatre ate my entire day today so I don't have the brain power to post anything right now. I think MoI asked about my opinion on Disturbed, though, so I'll say that I think he's prolly town, but I don't wanna try and post a case from my phone.

Needless to say I will give this game more attention tomorrow.

[Lord Mhork]

When CE's business turned out to be very genuine, the lurking becomes a null. I liked MoI's post, I ISO's Q, and I agree there. That slot was highly volatile.

Venmar voted Nekoko, my bad there.

Disturbed is someone I will hesitantly be up for lynching. Something about him is manufactured but I have a gut town on him so I'm hesitant to go against that.

I feel like unvoting pending replacement is a fine thing to do, you're not going to make me feel bad for that. That slot could question my vote regardless, whether or not it was on him at the moment is irrelevant. I stand by when I put my vote there, but it turns out the lurking became less and less scummy and more IRL based so I removed the vote. Plain and simple.

Pal, I'm not trying to 'make you feel bad' (which, by the by, looks like a really sketchy way to put it). Your unvote seemed rather scummy to me, so I thought it'd be a good idea to, you know, discuss it.

Why are you hesitantly up for lynching him if you have a gut town read? What is causing this gut town read?

He says he didn't realize that there were several pages already, but I don't believe him. How hard is it really to just say that we were still in RVS? His vote was just him wanting to maintain the safety buffer zone of RVS so he wouldn't have to account for where his vote was in the early game.

And how hard is it just to call his reason fake? I didn't vote at all and I had made my first post after him. Does that mean I didn't want to account for where my vote was too?

Perhaps. I do not, however, find waiting to place your vote until RVS blows over nearly as scummy as trying to prolong it. Sure it's easy to call his reason fake, but it's just as easy to call it real.

I forgot to mention who was town, I stated I forgot when I had to make a quick post mentioning my Cheery townread. It's not a matter of if one=scum the other=town, it's more of I can have one more in my scumreads before I'd just start mentioning townreads instead.

No that's not what I was talking about. I'm referring to where you stated that

one of them

--specifically one--could join your scum list because it would have 'been ridiculous' to put both down. That suggests that you're sure one or both are town, no?

I think you misunderstood here, I'm not calling you out on making sure people know your reads, but you seem to want to know what people's reads are on your scumreads.

...what? Am I not supposed to know where peoples' reads stand on each other now? Last I checked that was a fully valid request...

Fine, if you're going to use meta on me, I can use it on you. You would know from past experiences that once I get a solid scumread I would almost never let it go, so you tried to shift the attention onto me but it backfired and got you in hot water.

No... From past experience I know that you will tunnel the hell out of anyone, town or scum, you get a read on though... And I wasn't 'trying to shift attention onto you.' You make it sound like I was at L-1 or something...

Sarcasm used to discredit, lolloloololol you're better than this.

I'm not trying to discredit. I'm trying to get you to see how ridiculously your playing. I could not stand a minute of my game with Internet Stranger and you are playing near identically. >.<


First off, I like MoI's claiming strategy.

Second:

@LordM

– given your thoughts on HerrR’s “idling his vote” in Post 170 what do you think about Distrubed?

I have a town/newbie read on him. It's really guttish because the crux of it is that he is playing like he's new, but not playing like normal newbie scum. There is no way that I would support any lynch for him, for he's one of my strongest town reads.

You haven't seen the best of me, lately I've gotten better at finding scum, enabling me to call out the scumteam in the 48th post in one of my games.

It's not that it's not sufficient enough information, it's that it's

too much

information. Your posts are too long for me to keep interest in which is why I asked for a reads list since they're way more compact. Just give me a list of your reads with your key reasons and that should suffice for me.

So who's the scum team then, Om Nom? We're already on post 206.

And I'm not sure there's such a thing as too much information...

[Lord Mhork]

Ok, my vote isn't moving of Q's slot today ....

So you feel his flake was legitimately him raging at getting pressure from a reputable player? Could it have just been him getting bored with the game, abrupt though it seemed?

@Mhork: CE asked for a replacement, my case wasn't particularly strong with that happening combined with him saying he's busy, and my vote was stale there. So I unvoted both as my case crashing and a courtesy to a new player in a pretty fresh slot. My vote was parked there for a bit since it wasn't an active wagon and I didn't have anyone else I was compelled to really move it too. Unvoting would have been a meaningless gesture. I'm assuming Klick finds himself in similar circumstances, unless he still finds me to be his #1 scumread, since his vote has been on me since around page 3. It's a behavior I don't think too much of.

MoI: what did you glean from that last post of Q's that made you set your vote in stone that wasn't present in the other posts, or what was reaffirmed by that post?

My point is that your vote was stale and the wagon was inactive because you didn't do any pushing on it. You just parked it. Though now that you mention it, Klick's vote is kinda odd just hanging there with no push.

@Klick:

What are your thoughts on things? You've been kinda quiet recently.


Also, HerrRudi, why are you voting A_Potato?

[Lord Mhork]

EBWOP:
Why are you,

Nekoko

, voting A_Potato?

PEdit:
So you're just gonna skip over the part where people post their thoughts, A_Potato?

[Lord Mhork]

I'm sorry it's do demotivating. Perhaps you could try finding scum, building a case, and getting them lynched rather than just waiting for the night phase...

[Lord Mhork]

Note: A game just finished in which I self-voted in RVS to start discussion as scum. Just thought that should be clear.

I'm going to read through the game for townreads and try to catch the scum via PoE.

Alright, townreads:

Disturbed*
Cheery
Shamrock
HerrRudi*
MoI
Nekoko^

* non-negotiable
^ getting both good and bad feelings

That leaves:

A_Potato
guille
Mhork
nQ
Venmar

I'm pretty sure that A_Potato and Mhork are not a team. Therefore, there's at least 2 scum in {guille, nQ, Venmar} if I'm right.

VOTE: nQ

#126
#138
#172

Why is HerrRudi so nonnegotiable? Can you explain the good and badness of Nekoko and why that makes him a town slot? Out of guille, bitmap, and Venmar, which two are you the most sure are scum?

The townread on Cheery is now non-negotiable.

Why

[Lord Mhork]

I really don't see the need for explanation of strong town reads unless they're close to being lynched.

If I had to choose two between guille, Bitmap, and Venmar, it would be Bitmap and Venmar. However, they could all three be scum.

Well if you had found some solid rationale for finding a player, say HerrRudi, town, wouldn't you think that information would be good to share? That helps eliminate people from the scumpool, no?

Alright. I guess all I have to add right now is that I'm cool with Nekoko or nQ/Bitmap for lynch today.

Why?

[Lord Mhork]

Then why aren't you voting them?

[Lord Mhork]

You are. My bad... Sorry...

[Lord Mhork]

Actually I didn't see you were voting me. I think it's funny, though, that you don't mention me missing Disturbed's vote as part of this case, despite the fact that it seems to have prompted you to vote me...

[Lord Mhork]

That was included in my first line of reasoning, though I guess I could have explained it slightly better. But then again not knowing where someone elses vote is isn't actually that scummy, rather bad play.

I just don't like that he's asking for explanations on everything, especially those things that are obvious

Screw you too, pal. With all the things going through my mind right now, it's a miracle I remember my own password. Are you seriously trying to say that you've never missed a vote in your mafia career?

And what things are obvious? Obvious to whom? I ask questions because I genuinely want to know the answer; why is that scummy?

[Lord Mhork]

Whatever. Questioning still helps because there are some things that I want a better understanding on. I've been called out for voting people for obvious reasons that I later learned no one else saw, so I keep trying to make sure I have a grip on the situation.

But I did look over his ISO. It was a quick check where I was looking for his latest vote and I must have skipped over that post. Now let me ask you this: where is the scum motivation for lying about missing the vote? With it being so easy to fact check (see HerrRudi) how would that help me go about a mislynch? Why would I draw such obvious attention? If there is no scum motivation, then all you're doing is trying to get me lynched for a mistake which is a scummy thing to do.

[Lord Mhork]

Grr... Lots of things have happened and I'm far too exhausted to look at them in depth. I'll check and reread them tomorrow when I'm not so drained.

[Lord Mhork]

Right. For what I missed before my last post:

Case on Mhork isn't bad, but I get the feeling he's town. Can't really describe it, I guess it's just a gut feeling.

I guess I overreacted to you missing it, and have since withdrawn it. (it was part of that first line, but then you questioned it, and I realised it had nothing to do with anything, hence the part where I called it bad play).

Including it in my reasoning was also bad play on my part, however it wasn't the grunt of the reasoning

Yeah, but the rest of your case is still real weak. Seriously it just boils down to ask questions. You've dropped the other two points already anyway, that is that I missed you voting me and that I lost Disturbed's vote. Basically you don't like my playstyle and that makes me scum, yeah?

Why are you, Nekoko, voting A_Potato?

Just like what I said, I haven't seen any substantial post from him lately.
I haven't seen him scum hunting anymore. It looks he's just waiting for someone
to come forward and tell everyone or something like that.
And honestly, your vote did nothing (and I still think your reason for voting him was bad)

You do have a point there, and my vote is doing absolutely nothing. My read is weak on him anyway; I can find someone better.
UNVOTE: A_Potato

Alright, I've officially read all the walls of texts in this game. I cba to use quotes cause I'm not quoting 10 pages but I'll summarize the stuff I've read.

First off, I love you too, MoI. I'm glad I replaced into this game.

Secondly, has anyone seen the interactions or better yet lack of interaction between Potato(Om) and Klick? And what's with Om's massive buddying with MoI? Usually Om is more brash and coarse in his words. It just seems like he's sucking up to everyone and not doing much.

As for Klick, I can't really nail the feeling but I have scum vibes from him. He hasn't contributed much and scum usually tends to ask the question "Why?" a lot which is what he's been doing.

Disturbed_One's early play was shaky as he seemed nervous like newb scum. While he's not on my immediate lynch list, he's best to be looked into and probably not stick around till LyLo.

Sham's super lurky. That's scummy already. And he's not been pressured? Granted that Q wasn't the most active either but I plan to change that.

Venmar's towny. MoI's towny. Null on everyone else. Maybe a slight scum read on HerrRudi and Nekoko.

So it's question time.

@A_Potato: Can you specify at all times which head is talking? I would like to get a better town read on you if I can.

@MoI: If Klick flips scum, do you see A_Potato being scum? Also, <3.

@Sham: Scum reads please.

@Venmar: Please give reads. Or at the very least, on Potato.

Anyone else may ask me questions. I know it's sorta half-assed at this point but should cover most of my thoughts.

Bitmap, you look real sketchy. Is buddying MoI just part of your meta or is this a special case? And can I ask why you are calling Klick out for asking "why"? Why not me? I'm fairly sure I've been doing it more and more often than him and yet it's...different with me? I don't understand.

[Lord Mhork]

You're leaning town. Don't screw up.

PEdit: Absolutely no clue. He's in my Top Five via PoE.

kondi2424 you're being dumb again.

I just have a town feeling on him. He hasn't done anything really scummy but his lack of activity is making me second doubts. I'd be willing to pressure wagon him so that he would post more.

lol
Bitmap stop being scum.
It's making me cringe.
"Om is town and he hasn't done anything scummy but inactivity loloololololol pressure wagons are good I support one on Om despite townread lolololol."
Keep in mind shortly after this you totally go and claim I'm not playing to my town meta. Oh and don't forget the fact that you're actually voting me right now over an actual scumread.

PEDIT: Nah bro, I'm just in a good mood today considering I got the highest marks in the class on my science test. Good Mood = Motivation

Om Nom, did you actually read Bitmap's 317 and 318?

Hmmm.....

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Klick

So did Om Nom pass some sort of test or did you just not like the fact that he was seriously fighting back?

Just trying to work out why you have chosen that vote..

As for Klick, I can't really nail the feeling but I have scum vibes from him. He hasn't contributed much and scum usually tends to ask the question "Why?" a lot which is what he's been doing.

Where has Klick asked why?

When I say that I mean that he asks a lot of questions and doesn't really scumhunt.

Here's you changing your evidence... That's kinda sketchy, 'specially since asking "why" and just asking a lot of questions are two very different actions. You flat out said that asking "why" is the scumtell you're pushing, and now you're backtracking when Cheery called you on it.

Hmmm... I think HerrRudi is town now.

Just 'cause he posted a big ol' wall?

Hmm... I don't like this Bitmap dude. He seems very sketchy and I don't like it at all. As has been said before he's inconsistent and moreover looks like he's trying too hard to *look* like he's contributing. He makes me feel awful uneasy.

VOTE: Bitmap

[Lord Mhork]

What do you mean by "one word questions"?

[Lord Mhork]

Well one of those was a sarcastic response to a sarcastic question and I'm not exactly sure how I could have lengthened those whys... In fact I'm not really sure why I should have. Wouldn't needless fluff have been distracting and anti town?

[Lord Mhork]

Ah. That makes more sense. But what do you suggest when all I really want to know is why? No other fluff involved? Like when someone says that a person moved up to a solid town read. No why--nothing. I don't get why fluff would help there. What else would you know about my motives?

[Lord Mhork]

Om Nom, my point is that 317 was not even referencing you, though I do find it very interesting that Bitmap didn't even bother to correct that mistake. Something tells me that his heart really wasn't in those accusations he threw...

[Lord Mhork]

What do you make of Bitmap's lack of a correction?

[Lord Mhork]

Right about bitmap making you out to be scum?

Hang on though. How does this make Klick scum?

[Lord Mhork]

@Cheery Dog:
Well that's a reasonable request I should think. Hmm... I'll think on it.

@A_Potato:
Fabulous! Finally something we can agree on!

[Lord Mhork]

Yuck... I'm sick right now and am just posting to say that I am still following along and will do a real post tomorrow when I don't feel like absolute shit...

[Lord Mhork]

I agree with Disturbed here. If Klick is actually town, and MoI is as well, then we waste two lynches while learning absolutely nothing. I'd rather we get a lynch Nekoko or Bitmap, as I can actually understand the scummy things they've done.

[Lord Mhork]

Well, Cheery, I just don't like the idea of a rushed 1v1 with a day until deadline. I think it'd be better to take one of the players who are already agreed to be behaving scummily, then sort out this Klick/MoI fiasco tomorrow.

[Lord Mhork]

That'd be awesome, Bitmap, as we're kind of on the last day here...

[Lord Mhork]

Right... Why are you not going after Potato if you think he's scum? Your Klick 'case' is essentially that he is scum if Potato is scum, no?

[Lord Mhork]

I agree with Disturbed. I don't remember seeing a real case posted about MoI, and there is no way that I will agree to a 1v1 just 'cause a couple people want it.

And I'd still rather lynch Bitmap than Klick, 'cause I still am not sure why Klick is so scummy...

[Lord Mhork]

Klick is the scummiest player here. The 1v1 is a gambit, the self-vote is a gambit.
@Mhork You're going to need to compromise eventually.

So, his self vote is a gambit to what purpose. Will he not get lynched if he self votes.

I have never seen a town selfvote. From what I've seen scum do it to try to make people think they are townies who know their death doesn't mean their team will lose.

If he flips scum, will that mean that MoI is town or scum or nothing,

As I've said the 1v1 is shit so it doesn't clear MoI but it does make him look town.

and if he flips town, what does it mean?

Rereading of the thread.

Magnets, How do they work? I am not seeing it. I personally don't appreciate self voting, though.

Yeah... Just 'cause you've not seen it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Townies vote themselves all the time for multitudes of reasons--gambits, frustration, etc. I don't buy the theory that klick is scum just 'cause of a self vote.

As has already been said, the 1v1 is stupid. No matter what klick flips, I don't think it proves anything on MoI. This is just a fight between two people that don't like each other. >.<

[Lord Mhork]

Klick, why are you do eager to die? Apart from MoI, no one agrees with this 1v1 thing. You're death isn't gonna help anything.

[Lord Mhork]

I don't. That was a long while back. Can you explain?

[Lord Mhork]

Oh yeah... That game was weird...

Why are you so sure of MoI scum?

[Lord Mhork]

Actually, Nekoko, self preservation is often a good scum tell. Scum tends to be very eager to live, for there are less of them and they want to win. When you're trying to

anyone

lynched--especially someone like Klick--you look very desperate and very scummy.

For now, I'll sheep Om's vote, agreeing that Nekoko is kinda sketchy.

VOTE: Nekoko

[Lord Mhork]

Grr... IRL caught up with me. I'll get back to this later today, hopefully.

[Lord Mhork]

Post.

I'll get to this soon.

[Lord Mhork]

MoI, say that the mafia actually shot the director? What would that mean?

[Lord Mhork]

MoI, say that the mafia actually shot the director? What would that mean?

Why in god's name would the mafia have shot the director?

For massive confusion and am easy mislynch when the jailkeeper claims his target? It would also give them a free PR claim.

[Lord Mhork]

Hmm... I was just thinking, though, that it doesn't really make sense to counterclaim after targeting the director for a simultaneous shot. Hmm...

I dunno who I believe about the claiming right now. I'm leaning towards the counterclaimer being scum just 'cause I don't see the point in scum claiming first...

[Lord Mhork]

Any ideas on how we should lynch today?

Yeah, more on that in a minute but you probably are not going to like what is going to happen …

--

I tried to look at why grey was killed

, and decided out probably wasn't because of his suspicions which weren't very strong - his slot however was in klick's do not kill ever list, so I went and looked at that for possible night 2 targets and found myself and disturbed on said list, thus since I can't jail myself I jailed the other person on that list.

Thanks for confirming you are scum with the bolded Cherry. Because you are not the Vig and thus have no reason to know for certain that Bitmap was the Vig kill unless you are Mafia.

--

MoI, say that the mafia actually shot the director? What would that mean?

It would mean they are incredibly inept. Because after losing their RoleCop Day 2 they needed bodies laid out as fast as possible and killing the target I has specifically called for the Vig to kill only made sense if they had RoleCopped the director as Vig N1 (and we know this is not what happened). Because even if Cheery hadn’t slipped and confirmed he was Mafia the best course of action is to lynch Distrubed with the numbers alive we currently have. I’ll explain more in my next post.

Ah. That makes sense, I think.

And from what I understand of it, I like MoI's plan. It makes sense and looks like a pretty good winning strategy.

VOTE: Disturbed_One

I think calling out the scum team, claiming, and outing the Vig pretty well confirms that AngryPidgeon is up to speed.

[Lord Mhork]

I'll totally follow the plan... In that I'll just sit quietly tonight. Yay!

[Lord Mhork]

Yup. How about you?

[Lord Mhork]

AngryPidgeon... Are you really trying to rationalize a vote for me tomorrow?

[Lord Mhork]

Maybe, maybe not.

If Disturbed flips town, wouldn't you rationalize a vote for me?

I don't know. I'm tired today and it looks like MoI won the game anyway.

[Lord Mhork]

Yay! We win! Huzzah!