Open 449: Switch Mafia (Game Over)

[Jal]

I've confirmed via pm. Started reading. I will fully catch up and post by tonight.

[Jal]

Malpascp

, that's probably the first substantiated post you've made in the thread and one which didn't read scummy. Good show. I agree with you on Krazy. I was getting a scum read off of him when initially reading the thread, but looking through his ISO I just don't see the mod-sass coming from scum. On the Havingfitz slot I agree with mostly too.

Here's the thing with you. Earlier you made a rather fluffy post wherein you said,

Potato must be town, and so does Mala.

What changed your mind about that slot? Also, why must Potato be town?

Regarding your read on GreyGnarl, he said he was joking about the ignorance of there not being cop.

Otherwise, his questions about the switches at the beginning read town to me. Unless he is purposely playing overtly stupid/newbie, he could have easily have asked these questions in the scum qt over N0. I also glanced at a scum game of his briefly, and he played it like a confident champ, which is not what I am seeing here. Unless this is some lame-ass distancing attempt by you, but I figure it would stop by now with all the suspicion.

[Jal]

@Tajun

, you looked at Mala's, Krazy, and Hyperion's meta (which is mainly inconclusive), but didn't look up the meta of the person you're voting for. Explain.

My concern about Malp is that he seems to be sheeping others' reads to try to fit in, and I don't feel like doing an in depth enough meta to see if that is town or scum behaviour from him. Maybe over the weekend if I get bored.

Another thing: You gave Mala townie points for having familiar meta to her other town games, you then proceed to vote her later for essentially not having ton behavior. It doesn't exactly line up, and your sudden move off of her back to a leading wagon is off. For someone who will go through meta, you wouldn't go through someone's ISO before accusing them?

What did you get from reading the off-site meta of Daumus?

----

Hyperion may be scum. He usually attacks people weirdly. In this thread he is defending weirdly. His sheeping comment throws me off and his lack of follow up ISOs is scummy. He always seems to flake on my games, so... where are you Hyperion?

Could possibly be scum with Daumus if he flips scum.

@Mala

, give me two other people you think are scum and two you think are town.

@Siveure

:

Guys, let's stop worrying about the switches, as what they do and how they work only helps the scums.

This doesn't make sense.

Scum had three days to ask questions about this, so did the SK. Scum and possibly the PRs already know what's up. It's only town that can benefit from openly talking about the switches.

[Jal]

Potato:

No I'm the SK, uh, I m-mean town.
Shit.

Does a little "outing" of possible alignment in the thread "kiddingly": Check.
Om doing an unusual amount of investigative work: Check
Does not say they are obv-town: Check

Bring 'er in boys and girls.

VOTE: Potatouhou

[Jal]

People rarely read the rules on here. I've been in games where people hadn't known the roles properly in an open set-up. I have been in games where people didn't realize scum had day-talk and then proceeded to try and lynch someone for suggesting so as if they had insider information.

Fair enough on Mala. What about Potato? Why

must

Potato be town and not scum, or someone, let's say, a serial killer?

Discuss whatever you want about the switches. Don't care. Why stifle the conversation though considering the reasoning I pointed out? You seem to believe that people know, or at least should know the basic concept of the switches, and if that's so then how it is possible for scum to benefit at all from the conversation about switches?

[Jal]

@ Malp:
wait, gut and meta? What games of mine have you read Malp? Along with what type of meta on me?

Actually, this is a good question.

I've thought about the distancing thing, but I think it's getting far overplayed. Will meta later.

@Mala, what are your thoughts on Tajun's sudden vote and withdraw on you after his meta read?

[Jal]

@Mod: Tajun is voting for Malpascp.

Honestly, I feel like the vote on me was more of a honest pressure vote against me with a mild shower of susp. Honestly Tajun never said it was a meta read of mine in of itself, but a broad general not town meta read type behavior.

You're right to an extent. However, he went and looked up your behaviors and found some familiarity to previous town games you've had. You really haven't done anything different after this meta read, so to pressure you suddenly now seems odd, and then to just totally take back his vote and essentially agree with you is also peculiar.

What are your feelings on Mala now, Tajun?

About why I want no discussion on switches - Co-ordination. Mafia and Serial Killer both affect the switches, and they don't have a quicktopic together, as far as I'm aware. I'd rather they messed each other up than the alternative. Given how people don't have a clue how they work on a basic level, I'd like not to go into too much detail.

If a townie has no idea on how to use switches, fine. This is irrelevant.
If a mafia has no idea on how to use switches, they have two buddies, so still mostly irrelevant, but if all are unsure, then Good!
If the SK has no idea on how to use switches, then he's going to mess it up.

If there's one thing most probable about you, you're not the serial killer.

Are you afraid the SK and Mafia will coordinate or something? One of the main reasons the SK even has such control over the switches is to mess with mafia and try to outplay them to their benefit. SKs usually try and go solo. Anyway, they had an entire three days to go over this stuff N0. They probably know this stuff better than most of the town that took it as their game taking three days longer to start.

Townies should definitely know how to use the switches, especially our PRs. Remember, at the end of the game we're most likely going to be left the the most derp among us. We don't need to be in mylo/lylo and have someone reviewing the night kills and contributing a kill wrongly because they didn't understand the switch mechanic.

seems a little townie that he isn't really paying attention to how bad he looks, as I'm fairly sure grey was not being more suspected than malpa. It's tunneling, but doesn't really look like survivalistic play, given that nobody else is really going after grey.

Why do you consider this over-thinking? Taking this into consideration, is he still a scum read above the rest?

Votes are kinda all over the place now. I think it's kinda difficult to say he isn't taking a survival attitude. He certainly isn't just defending himself to hell and back and is still seemingly scumhunting, which does give him some credit though.

[Jal]

So Jal thinks we're the SK and is actively trying to get rid of us?
The only real alignment I could see at this point in time that wants to get rid of the SK over the other alignment would be scum since the SK can mess up their night actions.
You scum Jal?
VOTE: Jal
Also yes we are obvtown as fuck didn't you see me going on about my towniness with my interactions with Mala?

Let's logically think this out.

If I were scum, all I would have to do is go back to my little scum QT to out you, try to get a kill on you, then push your lynch if it didn't go through. Given the amount of doubt on you, it wouldn't be that hard to do it either.

Mala just tried to use that "mafia are looking for SK" logic on me in Open 440 and it didn't fly there either. I am mafia hunting

and

SK hunting. Why aren't you? Om likes to flirt with hinting at their role in almost every game I've been with them. Why is this game any different? There's a decent chance the SK is mafia-kill immune (especially if it's Potato) and there's little hope some of our PR switches will be played with much if that's the case.

This post looks like it was written by Bitmap to make it look like Om, with the "we" and the last bit. Just odd.

[Jal]

@Daumis:

So reread and still think my number one scum can be Jal
Vote: Jal

Jal please answer these qustions:
-Why Carbon was mafia and you are not?
-Do you trust me, or you trust others?
- Blue or red, which color you choose?

Please answer these questions with atleast five words.

I'll play along.

1) Carbon and I are the same alignment: town.
2) I don't really trust anyone.
3) I choose the color blue.

My turn.

Who are your other suspects? Is there anyone

you

trust, and why? Thoughts on Krazy, also.

For serious, are you actually scum or is your last post some SK hintage as you'd neither be scum or town? You're doing something weird, but I don't know quite your motivation for it.

@Tajun

:

As I pointed out, Malp is scummy for sheeping reads and acting like they're his own, trying to fit in while not doing much. For me to see whether that is scum behaviour from him in particular, I'll need to read through full games and put his posts in proper context, as opposed to other people for whom I can read their ISOs in those games. This will take a while, and I am busy IRL. I did also read through a few of his ISOs briefly, but not much was gained from that.

This doesn't explain why you went through Mala, Hyperion's, and that other person's past games but not the games of the person you voted for.

I agree with Om on this one, killing the SK would be the worst possible outcome of day 1, other than maybe lynching a PR. It would give the maf complete control over our PRs and disable a killing role as likely to target scum as town. You should definitely think things like that through first.

Om didn't say anything about the effects of killing the SK.

@GnarlsBarkley, stop semi-white knighting me.

[Jal]

Mafia will already have a good feel for who town sees as the "good guys" and "bad guys" since that's the name of their game. Right now, all you're being is anti-town.

You're constantly going in-between this weird defeatist and survivalist attitude. You seem defeated in that you're going to be lynched today although you're not that close right now, and then you swing towards this survivalist I-don't-give a care attitude wherein it feels like you

want

to stay alive but not want to really do much or help town with it.

Usually I think I'm pretty good at figuring out if a player's weird posts are due to mainly off-site meta and not their alignment, but I'm not getting any good town alignment tells out of you. I don't see the town motivation for this play.

[Jal]

I also don't get what you hope to achieve with those questions. You're acting like you're going to put them into a scantron machine or something and it'll beepboop the results.

[Jal]

As for my character, imagine me as not one, but as a loot of people in one, it should hep you understand me more easily.

Not really.

@Tajun

:

Ok, I'll spell it out for you. For Hyperion, Malakittens and "that other person" (Krazy)'s posts, all I was trying to get was a feel for what their posting style was, to see if this stood out and what I could gleam from that. The reason that I didn't do this for Malp is because a quick look would not be sufficient to determine whether my suspicions were ungrounded. In order to determine that, I would have to take a thorough look through at least two of his games, looking at all posts and not just his in isolation, in order to determine if sheeping was his town play. This would take ~4hours. I don't have the time or effort for that. Is that clear now?

This is the most fluffliest thing I've read in this thread, especially regarding the meta search. You think MalP and Mala are both scum. You vote MalP and push it, while metaing Mala and then pushing it awkwardly later. Why not get "just a feel" for MalP's posts either? Doesn't require 4 hours. This doesn't line up. ==>

Om said "The only real alignment I could see at this point in time that wants to get rid of the SK over the other alignment would be scum since the SK can mess up their night actions."
So yeah, he did. The effects would be that he is no longer there to mess up the night actions. Try looking below the surface.

Now you're changing what you were saying before. Your first statement was:

I agree with Om on this one, killing the SK would be the worst possible outcome of day 1, other than maybe lynching a PR.

It would give the maf complete control over our PRs and disable a killing role as likely to target scum as town. You should definitely think things like that through first.

Potato never said nor implied lynching the SK N1 was the worst outcome. Only you did.

Your fluffliness, combined with your weird voting on Malp and Mala are making me suspicious.

@Potato

:

I'm not saying it's not bad for town if we lynch the SK D1 but the fact that Jal is pursuing us over people she thinks are scum is really worrying.

Don't need to vote someone to pursue them. Also, if I gots myself scum, why change my vote over someone I'm less confident in?

I know I don't need to explain this to you, though.

[Jal]

t was needed for Jal to think that this was a random questions without real purpose. There is need of three questions and the third one has to look like it doesn't belong so the person would lose his mind protection while answering the first two.

Really? 'Cause I was pretty sure you were asking that question because there are some statistics somewhere (I believe) saying scum are most likely to pick red.

Daumis, when are you going to come out to play with the rest of us?

[Jal]

If you get lynched today, it all won't matter. You have made your wagon justifiable and you have virtually no reads. Town will have gained nothing if you are town, except by lynching the weakest town link.

[Jal]

I don't really care about your "information." Do you see me questioning you about any of it? I've already played (as scum) with someone in Open 408 who used some sort of questionnaire in an attempt to clear people down the road. His results? His answers revealed that I was one of his biggest town reads. He even pleaded with another player to sacrifice himself for me because he was so sure of it D2.

For the most part, these things mean crap all.

I only care about whether you're being a stupid townie or you're being scum trying to do crap all. Which are you?

[Jal]

Or I just studied psychology

Welcome

To

The

Fucking

Club.

Bachelors, masters, or phd? Focus? Oh, please I want to know. You obviously have no idea what you're talking about and I can't believe you're trying to fling that crap around as some excuse.

[Jal]

Meanwhile, where is our MallyP? He has been posting elsewhere but here.

[Jal]

Forget about the bachelor's questions. It'll just clog up the thread with stupidity and people are already lurking.

[Jal]

No need to buy it, this day will end with my lynched, but I hope it will give information for townies.

With one vote on you in RVS, why did you predict yourself being lynched at the end of the day?

[Jal]

Yeah, I am actually. Let's say we lynch the SK night one. Then someone dies, we get no PR results (because the scum block both) and the game is 7 townies vs. 3 scum. Those are VANILLA townies effectively, since the scum can block their actions at will. You like those odds? Those are a scum worse than you get on the newbie forum, minus PRs. Miss the next night and we are in MYLO.

Worst possible outcome. Now that I've thought about it better, I would actually rather lynch a PR. At least we would have some interference against the scum running away with the game then.

@Jal: My agreement was with Om that we shouldn't be hunting the SK. My assumption was that he thought we shouldn't hunt the SK because he thought it would be a bad idea. Ie. lynching the SK right now would be unwise. Excuse me for my apparently odd interpretation of his bloody obvious statement.

So given this worry of yours about being left with essentially vanilla townies, you would rather lynch a PR today over a SK... and then be in a good position to actually be potentially left with vanilla townies? That's some irrational worrying there. No, you didn't think through this any better. I don't want to go into any deeper SK theory than this, though.

Again, Om never said or implied that we shouldn't be hunting the SK in his vote for me. At all. It was my motives being called into question as a townie trying to

SPECIFICALLY

gun down the SK over just "scum." Read this statement five times over:

The only real alignment I could see at this point in time that wants to get rid of the SK over the other alignment would be scum since the SK can mess up their night actions.

Where is it implied that we "shouldn't be hunting the SK " vs "Jal is probably scum trying to target the SK over just scum hunting in an attempt to get rid of the person messing with the switches?" Oh wait, it isn't. That is still, all you.

What the hell are you talking about here? This isn't fluff, I was answering your questions. If you think I am full of shit and my post is me trying to cover it, then say so. What the hell makes it fluffy?

Your answer was more fluff than an actual answer.

Anyway, are you going to directly respond to what I said or whine that I didn't call it shit?

[Jal]

Why don't we actually try lynching someone that looks scummy?

Who looks scummy to you beyond Om?

I'm not quite sure that Daumis is actually scum. He made the best case as to why we should lynch him though:

This is plan B if no one will find real scum, might as well take out the one who is quite questionable.

I just don't see him getting any better or helping out.

[Jal]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Daumis

[Jal]

So as far as I understand Jal you say that even if I start to look less scumy it's still better to lynch me and lose townie than to look for actual scum.

Can't say those words came out of my mouth.

You get lynched because you look scummy. Become less scummy and actually do something, and you'll probably not get lynched. At least not with my help.

[Jal]

He has insinuated everything from being a PR, being a SK, possibly scum, and to possibly having Dissociative identity disorder.

[Jal]

Daumis, give me some thoughts on Malp.

[Jal]

Do you think GreyGnarl is scummy like most people think?

[Jal]

@Grey, you have 3 votes on you and two others (Mala and perhaps Tajun) that think there's possibly busing going on between you and Malp. Also, all the switches stuff a lot don't believe you on.

I've been thinking the same about Malp. Hrm.

[Jal]

Tajun, I am calling it quits between us. No one is paying attention and I'm not throwing a vote your way today.

@Siveure DtTrikyp: Why the vote off Malp, to Tajun, and back onto Malp again?

@Hyperion:

Me no gusta. Its a rather pathetic excuse to hop back on a newbtowns bandwagon.

Oh my. You say this as if I have even previously been on his wagonette before (I'm not Carbon). Love the attitude, though. You call my vote pathetic. So what? Is that supposed to mean something? Does it make me look scummy? Don't leave me in the dark here.

Looking forward to those finished ISOs.

[Jal]

Let's see if something happens.

[Jal]

What I thought would happen didn't happen. Oh well.

So does everyone who switched off of Daumis think he is town now or what?

[Jal]

Daumis to pop in after I had posted and we'd have a rap session for awhile, as per our usual.

[Jal]

I've seen him on, but he hasn't been posting.

[Jal]

I'm up for an Om/Daumis/Hyperion lynch today, and can be readily convinced to throw a vote on Sivvy-pooh bear and dearest Malpy, but that's about it until the night kills roll out.

[Jal]

Leaving Andrew for later days? What?

I don't know why you guys are lynching Auntie. She's awesome. What is there not to like?

[Jal]

@Siv Who are scummier players?

@Malp, you're going to have to try harder than that. Where is the towniest read on me?

[Jal]

While yer there, post your own opinion of our great Auntie.

[Jal]

@Malp, you're going to have to try harder than that. Where is the towniest read on me?

[Jal]

VOTE: Siv

I'm following Auntie.

[Jal]

Yes, pathetic is scummy. ISOs will get done when I have free time to actually look back in depth (which is almost never, but maybe tomorrow? I have a doctors appointment so maybe after that...)

You're down to four days. If you believe in the innocence of Daumis, then I suggest you get crakin' and present or vote for an alternative. Gnarly won't be getting lynched today.

[Jal]

This one post is newbscum as far as I see. Anyone else?

Then vote for him him?

[Jal]

Potato, just because you've been found out doesn't mean you don't need to keep playing.

[Jal]

Oh ho. So this is a policy lynch now?

Tell me more.

[Jal]

Hm Jal. Your posts are giving me odd vibes. >.>

Oh Jesus Christ not this again. You can't read me worth crap.

What exactly is Auntie being "policy lynched" even for? If Auntie is scum, then her partners must suck because no one is coming in to defend, except for maybe Malp failure trying to suddenly link to Daumis being scummy and yet doing nothing about it. Hmm, but I feel like I've said these words before in regards to someone else in another game...

INCOMING REAL SERIAL KILLER DEATH.

Rather a Daumis lynch if this is what it's going to come to.

VOTE: Daumis

[Jal]

Hyperion, show me the light.

[Jal]

Intent to fakehammer Auntie

FESS UP! WHERE ARE THE REAL PANCAKES HIDDEN?

[Jal]

Noperooni.

[Jal]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but I'm pretty sure that's the real Aunt Jemina.

[Jal]

This self-picture was obviously taken from a camera phone pointed at a mirror she's holding up.

[Jal]

I really don't get the wagon on Aunt Jemina though.

This is a SK/scum post, by the way.

[Jal]

Um, err, um, good thing I am town. Or is that some little understated way of trying to put suspicion onto me? Luckily though, we have the brave heroes of Potato and Siv to come to the rescue with "why bandwagon~~." Oh man, maybe I am wrooong.

Nah, I still like Auntie. But hey guys, if you don't want the lynch of either Daumis or Auntie, there is still the alternative of Siv which almost everyone and their grandma has said they think is scummy or lynchable, but still won't put a vote down for.

[Jal]

Daumis, if not for Auntie (and myself) who else would you vote for?

[Jal]

Auntie, I tried voting Siv but people are being stubborn. Why the massive pulls to get people to vote Siv over your other scum reads though?

Oh god, Hyperion is probably town for that reads list.

Daumis is probably being left for tomorrow by scummy scums. Good show.

[Jal]

Intent to hammer blah blah. Claim Auntie.

I also take back that Hyperion read. I thought he put a lot more scum reads in there at first glance. He gave a lot of incriminating ISOs, but there are a lotta townie reads in that mix. Not buyin' it.

[Jal]

Not much time/good net connection.

So you want to lynch Auntie because she said Daumis is a sweet boy based on a nonflip? Is she scum for defending scum or trying too hard to defend a potential townie? If either, oh please come on and lynch Daumis, Hyperion, or Malp.

We can have fun with this claim though. If there is a real vig, target Auntie. SK, let's have some fun and throw the Vig switch to on, eh? You aren't being Vig killed tonight nor scum killed due to this. Auntie, target a scum read. Mafia, WIFOM yourself to pieces and eat it.

[Jal]

Mala, the potato isn't being roasted today. Scum aren't going to potentially lynch a SK they think will help with their motives (hint scum: Om will probably kill you). That, or Om is scum and that ain't happenin'.

[Jal]

Or, erm, that's meant to "Kitten."

[Jal]

Aunt Jemina,

Town Vigilante

, was killed night 1.

Potatouhou,

Mafia Doctor Switch

, was killed Night 1.

Respect your elders.
/bah.

Aunt, you were the best player in the game. I am very serious. I wish I knew your main. Please play with me in every game.

I love y

[Jal]

oouu

[Jal]

Okay let's go through this.

Mala is probably not scum. I know Mala likes to bus (number one scum tell for her) but she just straight up went on Potato. I will double check her meta though. Mala doesn't strike me as the type to screw up and let Auntie kill last night either.

Gnarley seems unlikely due to Potato throwing a vote onto him in the last moments of the day. But Om knew Tajun wouldn't vote Grey, so there is that possibility. Hmm

[Jal]

There's also the possibility that scum thought Auntie would target Siv (a town) taking out two players at once.

[Jal]

Going to check is Om is the type of player when she calls people town they are most likely town.iv?

What about that Siv?

[Jal]

Pretty sure if I was scum I would've left the vig switch off because it's more likely they hit town. Just sayin.

Wait. If you think the vig was most likely to hit town then you would have left the vig switch on.

This doesn't make sense.

Looked at Om's meta. Om will bus a partner, but it is always piss poor short term or not voting busing.

[Jal]

But jal, even so, if you accept the vig wants to make players odd it's a good thing for vig to kill somebody from town perspective last night, even if that person is town.

What are you talking about? I have no problem with the vig vigging. However, I am pointing out that scum *may* have not turned the vig off because Aunt said you were at the top of her list. That's two town gone without any trouble. Getting rid of town is a good thing for scum, do you deny this?

A vig vigging isn't always a good thing imo, but I really don't care and Auntie proved herself by vigging on the chance she wasn't killed.

[Jal]

Also, why the Hyperion vote.

[Jal]

I'm also preeeeetttttttyyyyy sure Andrew isn't scum either, not with that interaction with Potato yesterday

Siv are you purposely being dense or are you trying to be coy by trying to argue your possibility of being clear to try and look town? How do you not get that it would have been a good thing for scum to have the vig kill town before killing the vig off? Town numbers matter when we get close to mylo/lylo. Not now, but interesting that you think it is important enough.

[Jal]

@Mala and Andrew

: What are your reads?

Andrew, I know you're a good town player with generally good reads. Mala, no wish wash. Give it to me straight.

[Jal]

Daumis, don't hide. What are your thoughts on the Potato kill?

[Jal]

I'm in-between the switches. I do legitimately think scum screwed up rather than let siv not possibly die, for the record. I wonder if they realized the SK was dead.

[Jal]

We're arguing two different things.

So who do you think is scum? You too, Grey.

[Jal]

Fitz, maybe. he started strong but he just stopped posting much at the end of the day. Why Mala? Eh, really don't believe Andrew is scum.

[Jal]

VOTE: Tajun

[Jal]

These two things make me think Fitz is town.

1) Unless he is feigning ignorance on Potato (possibility), he is not aware of Potato being a hydra.

elHydra?

@all, do we have any hydras...or alts?

2) Fitz looks like he wouldn't have screwed up the switches.

@havingfitz: What is your read on Daumis?

He's almost too scummy to be scum. If he doesn't wind up being the lynch today I think he is definitely someone who needs to go before LYLO. He'd be a great vig target but until the mafia vig switch is removed (either by death or the sk disabling it) I don't see the vig doing much.

[Jal]

VOTE: Daumis

Defend yourself or die scum!

groan Daumis is scum

This game is going nowhere. Lynching this scum will free up a PR and get us some results.

Why don't we actually try lynching someone that looks scummy?

My name is Greygnarl and I endorse that message too. Just that since we can't agree, I'll tell you who's scummy. Daumis is. Let's kill'em.

Very obvtown.

[Jal]

[Jal]

@Tajun

:

Siv
Me
Frankly, that is all. Mala and Jal are on the maybe piles, the rest of you have all but proved you are not paying any bloody attention.

But, we do get andrew's town alignment for free as well, since they would not have left the vig on if he was scum. Two free townies is a pretty good deal.

Mala, Andrew, and Siv were all on Auntie's scum list. Siv I can understand giving a "clear" given that she said she would probably target him, but Mala and Andrew were not being targeted towards the end of the day and Auntie was really questioning Mala too. Why give the clear to Andrew and not Mala? Otherwise, Andrew was one of your top scum reads yesterday.

Also,

But, we do get andrew's town alignment for free as well, since they would not have left the vig on if he was scum. Two free townies is a pretty good deal.

Implies you think scum left the vig on purposely.

You being insulted here though:

1) I am insulted. Not that you think I am scum, but that you think I am stupid enough to leave the vig on.

Implies that you think the scum screwed up. So which do you think happened? To make my opinion clear, I think scum screwed up some.

Everyone seems to be sheeping Jal. I have no idea why you people have town on her, but she is still null at best for me.

What happened to me being slightly leaning town for my mafia/sk thing?

[Jal]

Returns to Daumis, after the brief absence. This is a little harder to read, with him being a hydra and all, but if it was pure Om I would definitely call this a return to the bus, which he thought would lead to a lynch.

That was Bitmap (the other head), actually.

Not exactly sure what you mean here. Are you saying that Potato unvoted me and jumped back on scumbuddy Daumis thinking it would lead to a lynch? Being the third vote, I doubt they would have got on him

thinking

it would lead to a lynch if they were scum buddies.

[Jal]

Let's rephrase this.

@Mod: Can scum direct the actions of their scum partners on their behalf?

[Jal]

I did. It can be interpreted as one of two ways. WHATEVA. I think it's obvious what you interpreted it as.

[Jal]

Mala is probably not scum. I know Mala likes to bus (number one scum tell for her) but she just straight up went on Potato. I will double check her meta though. Mala doesn't strike me as the type to screw up and let Auntie kill last night either.

[Jal]

UNVOTE:

[Jal]

Jal's Post 609 is useless speculation. Mala likes to bus but the fact she went after Potato means she's not scum. WTF? And clearing GG because Potato laid a vote on him? Do Om and/or Bitmap like to bus? On that note....Jal, how did you know Potato was Om and Bitmap?

Not only can I just look at the avatar and the name and deduce that It's Om and that's the old avatar of Bitmap which I've been in a game with, I read through https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=22693 while it was happening much enjoying Bitmap's argument with MoI.

Also: I'm not stupid.

Jal's Post 617 seems to describe exactly what Potato (Om) did wrt GG. So why clear GG?

I actually don't completely clear him, I just said unlikely. I said probably not scum because Om tried push the wagon off Auntie his way first, but I do think there is a chance Om was busing him knowing people like Tajun and I wouldn't go for it. I'm in-between this read now, actually. I already explained this though, so this question is looking pretty pointless. Maybe if you linked to the right one.

@Jal...What do you mean about not letting Siv die?

Annnnnnd in posts 628 and 629 I start to become scum. Nice.

It's pretty clear what is meant by the conversation between Tajun and I. Not going to explain switches to you.

Also, notice I went in and said why I thought you were town? Yeah.

That's a lot of insinuation of some scumminess on my part and even something that seems like you're trying to link Grey, Potato, and I together. How am I not in your scum reads there?

[Jal]

VOTE: Jal[
Scumslips hardstyle.

Scum slips are mostly bullshit. Live and learn.

[Jal]

Rethinking read on Grey after looking at his beginning posts. I can definitely see him just not understanding anything to do with the mechanics of the game.

[Jal]

Andrew, concerning Mala being V/LA thing, it actually would make her more likely to be town.

[Jal]

Jal, fitz, andrew.
Fitz and Jal mostly. Cases tomorrow when I have computer access.

So you have a major scum read on both of us, and you're voting on a scum read based on a "slip" that another scum read asked about? I know that it doesn't necessarily mean that Fitz and I are scumbuddies or something, but somehow this just seems... odd?

[Jal]

I went looking back through the thread and I found something weird concerning Om. His vote and push for Grey when trying to switch the wagon off of Auntie does not make sense. Om had been pushing a scum read on Daumis for almost the entire thread, but when he moves off of Auntie, he proceeds to move onto Grey which doesn't make much sense given that he's had a more favorable impression of him throughout the game, at least until he RANDOMLY put Grey on his "would lynch" pile in post 156. Look through Potato's ISO. That is out of no where.

Om's excuse was that we needed to get a lynch off of someone as to not have a no-lynch. But look at the vote count on the page of his vote https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 9#p4434679. Prior to Om's vote, the votes between Grey and Daumis were equal. There is NO LOGICAL REASON FOR HIM NOT TO PUSH A LYNCH ON HIS SCUM READ DAUMIS. Daumis also had one of the biggest wagons on him some point also, right? So it's not like Potato was trying to pick the easiest lynch target. Grey, meanwhile, had a few prominent people, such as Tajun and I (let's be serious, we're both prominent) saying we wouldn't lynch Grey.

This can mean a few things.

1) Daumis is scum. To bus a partner in the thread consistently is one thing. It's another thing to have half a day left to switch bandwagons and choosing not to throw your partner under the bus when people would have probably followed immediately like they did with malp. Om was just trying to steer the lynch away from partners regardless.

2) Grey is scum. Potato found a good chance to bus his partner on someone lots had a split opinion on, thinking it wouldn't go through.

3) Could mean they're both scum, really.

Right now I'm leaning on Daumis-scum, because either way it doesn't make sense for Potato to not push a Daumis lynch at the end. Maybe to save his lynch for tomorrow, but there are quite a few scummy people in this game regardless. Right now, I'm looking at a potential Potato-Daumis-Siv scum team. Something about Siv's vote on Daumis while saying he thinks things are pointing to town Daumis right now just looks scummy.

Also, Daumis is totally lurking the hell out of this game.

VOTE: Daumis

[Jal]

Fitz, your entire post towards me can be answered with: I read the games of people I like and I have evolving reads. If being snarky is defensive, then we're both guilty of that.

[Jal]

He has logged in since earlier today too.

[Jal]

Could have gotten Hyper? Probably. Not both.

I think if Grey/Tajun were the cop and we didn't end Day 1 like we did things would have gone more smoothly.

Really good game scum. Truly earned.