Open 463: Black Flag Nightless (Game Over)

[Cerulean]

Thor you should hammer your partner.

Or JS it doesn't really matter.

The day before you has thor as strong town, such strong town that you thought it was dumb to suspect him. Why did you have him as such strong town that you pretty much were basing my read on my read on Thor? And what happened to that over night?

Basically I want to see how you went from Thor so town it's dumb to suspect him to he's piggy's partner most likely over night.

Don't answer this in fluff. I want to see your thought process. Also don't ignore it again, I asked you a similar question yesterday.

[Cerulean]

That's not an answer to her question, Arthur. And I'm also very interested in hearing your answer.

Also, where's your Soul townread coming from?

(F-16, I've been watching you post. I expect to see you in this thread soon.)

~Empire.

[Cerulean]

Deadpool - ill have some questions for you in a bit that you get to stop ignoring, and want to see f-16's thoughts as well as your updated thought very soon.

Tammy to be honest I am really not interested in getting into a debate with you neither do I really care to get interrogated at this point. If you think I'm scum you can raise the roof and try to get me lynched, but don't really expect me to turn this into a wallwar or a back and forth debate.

You're town. I'm town. I know you're town.

You

know deep down that I'm town. If you put your emotions aside, and look at the cold hard facts, you would realize that you know I'm town. But as long as you're entertaining your paranoid fantasies, you'll continue down your confirmation bias and frankly see everything I do or say as town.

Yes, I'm fucking stupid this game. Yes, I still haven't looked at like half of the game yet. But you already know my stupidity doesn't make me scum *shrug*

Anyways I'll try to see who I most want to lynch from N/Thor/Jess today or tomorrow. Though I'll mostly be sheeping the shit out of F-16 when he finishes his thoughts.

Also, is there a solid reason JT isn't scum? Just trying to set aside my townreads so I don't have to even consider them again, but I pretty much have solid reasons for Soul and Tampire. Don't really have that strong of a reason to put JT in the forever and ever town pile tbh

Hey arthur! How you doing? You joined this game, so you will answer questions. I'm not trying to get into a debate with you, I'm trying to get a read on you.

I don't have confirmation bias, and I definitely don't know you're town. I've re-read your predecessor and don't find a reason to call him town and your content so far doesn't make me feel better about you.

I don't have any emotions in this Arthur and don't you dare try to discredit my suspicions on you as emotions. You know damn well when you've suspected me for shit reasons, I've been able to see when their genuine. I haven't seen anything genuine from you this game. At. All. And posting a wall to tell me why you're not going to answer a question that should be easy for you to answer, doesn't help that.

There is no confrimation bias here. I'm suspicious of all of you to some sense. Except JT...they're town town. Now stop evading my questions like you have since you started and answer them.

[Cerulean]

Read the rules, Faraday. Majority lynch goes through.

Why does anyone townread Deadpool again?

~Empire.

[Cerulean]

EBWOP: Plurality lynch, sorry.

~Empire.

[Cerulean]

Faraday, define straightlaced? On a skim of his meta, he seems pretty straightlaced as both alignments.

What do you think of Arthur, though? Yes, his posts suck but are they scum motivated?

~Empire.

[Cerulean]

Quick note for Regfan (since he's the only one who will give a shit): N does not have any completed games on site as scum. I'm going to link some games here eventually for everyone left alive.

~Empire.

[Cerulean]

Piggy does a derp vote.
Thor becomes a scumtell.
#mylife

I saw here play a much more confident game as town in micro 36 though. Here she just seems so nervous, and I can see here being coached by you.

Was this the basis of your voting piggy yesterday? And if you weren't caught up with the thread why did you just join her wagon?

[Cerulean]

And I don't believe for a second, you wouldn't have some real thoughts of your own Arthur. I know you joined this game because you knew faraday was in it and wanted to play with him, so you utter lack of actual thoughts and shitposting makes no sense whatsoever.

[Cerulean]

Wtf there's 2 scum in like literally more than half a playerlist of strong town.

What the fuck.

Pretty sure actually it's 2/3 of Thor, N, and Jess.

F-16 will prob have some goodposting later. I told him it's prob best to pause on the rereads until we get a piggy flip *shrug*

(if someone is fucking trolling and prolonging this more than it has to this is not cool -_-)

This sounds like you knew the day wasnt going to end.

[Cerulean]

Good if you have thoughts. Answer my questions. Seriously.

[Cerulean]

Also, why 2 of those people. Who of them are most likely?

[Cerulean]

Arthur - answer the question I asked you earlier about Thor. You keep on ignoring it. Also, answer empires question about your town read on soul

[Cerulean]

Thor you should hammer your partner.

Or JS it doesn't really matter.

The day before you has thor as strong town, such strong town that you thought it was dumb to suspect him. Why did you have him as such strong town that you pretty much were basing my read on my read on Thor? And what happened to that over night?

Basically I want to see how you went from Thor so town it's dumb to suspect him to he's piggy's partner most likely over night.

Don't answer this in fluff. I want to see your thought process. Also don't ignore it again, I asked you a similar question yesterday.

[Cerulean]

That does not explain your "it's dumb to suspect" Thor thing you had going on. Nor does it explain that you were basing your read on me partially on my read on Thor. If you read the back and forth and decided that it was town on town, what was up with pushing me to make me "town mad" to get a read on me? Why did you deflect the questions I had for you, not answer them, and fling suspicion on me?

Why did piggy really look to be partnered with Thor, and now that you know she's not, why is Thor not back in your dumb to suspect pile.

[Cerulean]

And just so you know I'm actually doing meta research. I hope your all happy with yourselves.

[Cerulean]

Glad I'm rubbing off on you, Tammy.

(I'm doing some of my own right now, too. F-16, I need you right now bro.)

~Empire.

[Cerulean]

Thor - on the day of the sixty lynch you started the N wagon and tried to get that counter wagon for, what you said, a trap of sorts. Why didn't you try to push Jesse harder yesterday? Especially if piggy was likely town as you called her in Post 636.

[Cerulean]

Why didn't I try to push Jesse harder yesterday...



How?

Well not exactly the pushing harder thing, as it went fast, but what I'm mainly wondering about is that we waited so long for someone to hammer Sixty who were pretty obvious scum and you didn't hammer but kept floating the N thing. Why did you just hammer Piggy so easily then?

[Cerulean]

Compiling this post for my own reference but I do encourage anyone who cares to trudge through these games and help me out on the meta analysis here:

JesseSheffield:

TOWN: Open 269, Open 262
SCUM: Open 256, Open 272, Open 252
Note: These games are all very old, so take them with a grain of salt here.

absta101:

TOWN: Micro 45, Mini 1361
SCUM: Newbie 1290, Open 432

Ser Arthur Dayne:

TOWN: Micro 53, Micro 36
SCUM: Lovers Mafia, Micro 8

Thor665:

TOWN: Reverse Mafia Redux, Political Corruption Mafia, Micro 65
SCUM: Newbie 1290, Mini 1347

Mehdi2277:

TOWN: Micro 68, The Detectives
SCUM: Open 443, Micro 4
BONUS: Micro 5

Oversoul:

TOWN: Mafia Behind the Maiden, Dirty Dealing (hydra)
SCUM: Chrono Trigger, Purified Mafia, Paranoia Mafia

NOTE:

N's only completed games are all as town.

[Cerulean]

^ Above post was Empire, if that wasn't clear enough.

[Cerulean]

Dunno. I mean I think they theoretically could be? Not everything scum do is scum motivated anyway, he might just suck at scum really bad? I don't actually know if I've seen him as scum/remember seeing him as scum now it's mentioned.

1) I do suck at scum. Like, horribly suck. And I think I only had 3 scum games on here? Newbie 1237, The Heterosexual Revolution one I replaced into, and Micro 8 with Myko. I sucked horribly in all 3 and the only reason we actually won the 3rd game was because town sucked more (expect Farside she was onto us but the rest of the town were really stupid).

2) I can

also

suck as town.

Oh believe me I know you can also suck as town, but I've usually been able to read you or understand your thought process as town even when others don't. And I don't have that here at all. I'm going to respond to your answers in a bit but the short of it is that your reasons are very cursory and don't make much sense. You're not even being proactive in the tiniest bit. And I still don't understand why you refused to answer my questions and instead deflected onto me by throwing suspicion my way when it's abundantly clear were town here. It also makes no sense for you to get irritated by questions because it was late. You signed up to replace in, and since you had to know I was town, you'd know those were genuine questions. It doesn't make sense to deflect and throw suspicion to see if I get "town mad" when you could have just said you'd respond to me later.

Parroting who others think the final three are is not having thoughts. You can't even explain why you think that way and you can't satisfactorily explain your insta strong town read on Thor and then turn around over night.

When is f-16 going to come in here and give his thoughts?

[Cerulean]

Okay well, still looking forward to hearing from him.

[Cerulean]

Posting from my phone to say DO NOT reply to F-16's wall. Let him finish his catch up first please.

~Empire

[Cerulean]

I try to go for the most recent ones. If you have a more recent game as either alignment, feel free to post it here.

~Empire.

[Cerulean]

Regfan, after you're done with you PoE analysis, want to take a shot at cracking Jesse's meta? I've been going over the games I linked with Tammy trying to get a sense of what he plays like as both alignments. She's going to be out of town for Thanksgiving weekend and while she might get some internet access I won't be able to communicate with her much.

~Empire.

[Cerulean]

Sure, I'll mull over your PoE analysis + your Deadpool townread when I come back from school/work.

From what I recall, Jesse does get really frustrated as both alignments though I'm not sure if it was to the same extent as scum as it is here.

~Empire.

[Cerulean]

Yeah, it sucks but that was pretty much the best I could do. You could try mining for older ones if you want but I'm not so sure they'd be reliable.

~Empire.

[Cerulean]

Going to be going over some of the meta again tonight. Will post my impressions at some point.

~Empire.

[Cerulean]

Sure. My only reservation with absta's play at this point is how he goes from this to this. This shift in confidence in his Voided scumread is a little jarring. As far as Arthur's posts go, I talked with Tammy briefly about them and she says that he's playing more like his town self now with the recent spam posting in his ISO. I especially like his reasoning re: his Soul townread - I don't necessarily agree with it but I think there's a very traceable/identifiable thought process there.

As far as the PoE stuff is concerned, aside from some silly minor paranoia about scum gambitting or some shit, it's fine. I do want to hear what you think about C) Jesse + Soul, though. I haven't gone back and reread them yet but I remember Jesse getting furious with Soul over interrupting his ability to interact with the other players which would be a weird interaction if they were partners. However, from what I recall of Jesse's scum game, I seem to remember him getting somewhat mad at his partners for "being useless" and while not directly analogous here, it's possible he might attempt some sort of similar distancing.

~Empire.

[Cerulean]

Oh, another thing, I remember bringing the "This is also a nicer way of saying "we were trying to misslynch absta" line up with Tammy and we both agreed that it made him less likely to be Sixty's partner for the same reason you mentioned. Also, I think you made a mistake with one of your links in #1072 since the #993 link doesn't lead anywhere relevant. I liked Arthur's "if someone is trolling and prolonging this it's not cool" too.

~Empire.

[Cerulean]

Oh yeah, that image post made me laugh really hard.

One more thing I want to talk about re: PoE but I want to hold off on it for a bit while I talk to Tammy about it.

You said earlier that C) Jesse + Soul seemed like it could go both ways. What are some of the things that make you think it's possible they're partners?

~Empire.

[Cerulean]

Also shows he's willing to hammer and buss partners when they're dead meat so his vote on N this game rather than Sixty is a point towards him being town. I couldn't find scum qts in either game though, seems they weren't posted.

But yeah, growing more and more convinced that the play today is either Soul or N.

Context-wise, this game might be different. There might be some validity to Thor's argument that his vote drew Jesse-scum onto the N wagon because he wasn't sure that Sixty was necessarily dead meat. Given that scum have daytalk, though, not sure this is compelling because presumably Vi/Tierce would have been yelling at Jesse to bus-hammer and his scum meta reflects compliance with that play. Plus, Tammy thinks there are certain things Jesse has said that sound really genuine, especially regarding Thor. I'm not 100% convinced on that front since I think he might be capable of saying stuff like #912's "If there’s a Day 5 I would feel really sorry for/take malicious enjoyment out of watching a town fall to you again" as scum.

I agree 100% with one of Soul/N being the play today. I think enough time has passed where I can talk about this more freely.

If we accept the following assumptions as true:
1) That Cerulean, Justin Timberlake, and Deadpool are all town.
2) That Regfan's PoE analysis is accurate

Then it is town autowin because the objectively best play becomes to lynch one of Soul/N:
a) if we lynch N and he flips town, this basically clears Thor as there is no other person he could reasonably be paired up with. Therefore, the scumteam is Jesse/Soul.
b) if we lynch Soul and they flip town, this basically clears Jesse as there is no other person he could reasonably be paired up with. Therefore, the scumteam is N/Thor.

Let me know if there's anything wrong with this analysis.

~Empire.

[Cerulean]

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

Faraday you so crazy!

ALSO, ARE YOU GUYS PLANNING TO END THE GAME WHEN IM ON VACATION?

How will I partake in the festivities?

[Cerulean]

Hmmmm...where has OS been this whole time since his catchup walls? On a skim, he's a lot more active in the hydra in Dirty Dealing.

~Empire.

[Cerulean]

Who is he making a case on?

[Cerulean]

This is Tammy and I didn't realize he had asked you for a case, or just didn't remember. I figured it was probably n or Thor but was wondering which one was more likely.

[Cerulean]

Don't worry, Thor, we're probably going to lynch your partner today so you don't have to worry about this game anymore.

~Empire.

[Cerulean]

Mehdi - I didn't even notice you asked me the question. I probably shouldn't be attempting to do anything right now. A lot of travel + site seeing + lack of sleep has left me with a slipping brain. I was interested for my own curiosity. I don't care how you do the cases. I'd say separate would be fine, but I'm not the one who asked for a case from you guys so that's not really my call.

OS - tis good. I'd like to see you posting more for my own piece of mind. I'm looking forward to the cases though, now that I know you're writing them :p

[Cerulean]

Are we starting with Jesse?
I'd still like to start with Jesse despite the brilliant logic of proving I'm town by lynching N because his crime is being my only possible partner.
Despite that being a great case.

Why do you seem to care so much about N? We lynch him, you become basically clear by PoE if he's town, you get your Jesse lynch tomorrow.

~Empire.

[Cerulean]

Regfan, I looked through Dirty Dealing and I think I'm seeing similar stuff here re: Mehdi talking down to his suspects, becoming frustrated, and not being afraid to call things dumb. I don't think he sounds robotic here. Only reservation I had was regarding OS's activity in the hydra but I think his excuse checks out.

~Empire.

[Cerulean]

It's pretty weak at the moment, but yes, we do. Can you explain your townread on him please? If you already did, just direct me to the post.

I mean, the fact that Thor evidently really doesn't want N to get lynched today is ringing alarms bells to me right now.

~Empire.

[Cerulean]

I only had a couple minutes to read the case but didn't think it was a stretch. It was rather long, but the search for motivation in each of the posts looked genuine. I'll have more to say about N and Thor when I get back from vacation if you guys don't lynch before then though. There are some things I want to look over.

Looking forward to hearing why JT is town reading Thor though.

[Cerulean]

Not really. Only about the first 1/3 or so of the case is on your meta. And it's not the type of the thing I'd expect you to evolve into (when is more aggression and seriousness something you just evolve into having?)

Now I'm on a computer, I can reply better. It's definetaly more than 1/3 about my meta - you said I was more jokey in Open 450 than this game, which I can't believe; I was so damn angry that game due to the quickhammer.

There are some bits where you address things I've said this game, but I'm not sure if you want a response to those (or how I could respond other than "nope, you're wrong").

I haven't got around to reading the Thor case yet.

Is it intended for everyone to read, or just JT?

I think Regfan is the only one with a big enough attention span to go through all of that.

Is the bolded a serious question? What is your read on Thor with reasoning please?

[Cerulean]

Ugh, been struggling with this game for a bit. Going to take a little break and reread the thread with fresh eyes to see if something comes up.

Regfan, something just occurred to me in response to your #1119 -- Thor might have somewhat of a point regarding his whole attempt to "bait people" onto the N wagon. Given the setup and the notion that Jesse doesn't completely bus his partners unless he has to, it's possible that he interpreted Thor trying to kickstart a N wagon as an out for having to vote for Sixty. I know I said earlier that scum have daytalk and thus Sixty would have been yelling at Jesse to bus vote but Vi was on V/LA and Tierce was pretty much ignoring the thread.

Bleh, it all sounds tinfoil hat theory right now, but I figured I'd throw out this (dumb) explanation out there.

~Empire.

[Cerulean]

JT - how does thors own statement that his town game and scum game aren't really different affect your reading of his town tell? Also, have you ever played in a game with Thor scum?

Looking forward to hearing more from Jesse and f-16

F-16 - in your reads you just called Thor Thor. Is there are reason you didn't give a read on him?

I was hoping I'd be able to get back to this game on sunday after I got back from vacation, but it's actually not going to be before Monday to reread and stuff. I found out yesterday I have a Monday deadline for another game in mylo.

[Cerulean]

Regfan, I read through your case for Thor being town and I'll have a more detailed post about it tomorrow but I want to say this: Tammy and I both think you might be massively underestimating Thor, we think he's very capable of faking a lot of the minor-ish towntells you listed in thread (as opposed to the scum QT). The one thing I am inclined to agree with you on is his push on N being a towntell and that he might have a point re: Jesse being scum after looking at his meta.

F-16, would really love it if you finished your catch-up and helped us out here.

~Empire.

[Cerulean]

I hate you, Empire.

You're mean. Not my fault you're competent at scum.

I am catching up now. I have been reading new info as it pops up (except the walls) so, if there is anything you want me to comment on now, let me know. Otherwise, I'll probably be done in a couple of hours (if I am being optimistic).
...
Preliminary thoughts: I am really undecided on the whole "baiting to see if anyone doesn't join the Sixty wagon." I can see both town and scum motivations behind it - town because of just what he said. Scum because he had a neat explanation for derailing the Sixty wagon - one that town would buy, so win-win. If somebody else gets lynched other than Sixty, that is the second mislynch. If not, he gives his explanation that he was baiting players off the Sixty wagon.

I'm specifically interested in your current reads and your response to Regfan's PoE analysis. Also, read the walls, they're fun.

~Empire.

[Cerulean]

Your face is boring

[Cerulean]

Just sayin

[Cerulean]

It's a good thing you have a sexy accent

I'll be getting home tomorrow night and will get a chance to actually talk to empire again, and well be putting together our thoughts after, probs Monday or Tuesday.

[Cerulean]

You want to catch yourself up.

But, you replaced a scum slot. Discuss.

[Cerulean]

Yeah, slimer, we're lynching your slot today, so you should probably just claim if you're mafia.

~Empire.

[Cerulean]

Thor, you're no fun.

Anyway, seriously though, catch up and give us your thoughts ASAP please.

~Empire.

[Cerulean]

Ugh, slimer doesn't have any completed games on here as scum. How lame.

I'll go through his town games tomorrow, I guess.

(Slimer, you should read the entire thread not just ISOs of certain people please.)

~Empire.

[Cerulean]

Exactly reading is for losers and regfan and empire they're cool.

But trust me!

You're calling me a loser

[Cerulean]

Catching up with Tammy now, will have a big post about everything sometime soon. Something to note and I'm not sure if it's been brought up before: Sixty completely ignores N throughout their ISO.

~Empire.

[Cerulean]

Oh Deadpool brought it up, nevermind.

Still waiting on F-16 to respond to Regfan's PoE analysis and waiting on theslimer3's...everything.

~Empire.

[Cerulean]

Problem with that is Sixty generally ignored Voided as well so I'm not sure we can really use that as a basis to say that N is their partner.

~Empire.

[Cerulean]

I hate the fact scum have daytalk :/ (which they can be using very well to their advantage if they're smart). It kinda makes me paranoid of everything as maybe a trick or a planned strategy.

Arthur, why would you be particularly paranoid of scum having day talk in this game? At Westeros, scum always have day talk, you should be used to the concept.

[Cerulean]

You should try maybe reading the game.

~Empire.

[Cerulean]

JT - well get our thoughts together soon. We planned to talk yesterday but I was exhausted and went to bed super early. I'm nearly finished reading through some things I wanted to look back over tough.

Really super super super frustrated that slimmer has done fucking nothing and am *_* close to voting him for being useless as hell. That and I'm really not liking jesses day one play after looking back over it nor am I liking his reaction after the piggy lynch and I wonder if he just scum!gave up and I worry that my view of the slot is being colored by the useless piece of slime that replaced into that slot, who incidentally has been posting elsewhere and has not done one damn thing here. I have never wished for someone to replace out of a game as much as I wish that slimmer would replace out and be replaced by someone WHO WILL DO SOMETHING because I swear if we end up lynching him because of his stupid as play and he ends up being town and we come that much closer to losing I will scream the loudest 'fuck' anyone has ever heard. Or maybe I shouldn't post right now, I just woke up from a nap and am grumpy and I hate when players do NOTHING. Okay later I should head to work.

Arthur - why are you so adamant against a slimmer lynch? What the hell was so town about Jesse? Did you read his day one play?

[Cerulean]

I might have to replace out. Let me think on this.

Do it.

Thor - why did you encourage absta to replace out?

[Cerulean]

Yeah no, stop trying to get a quick lynch on me and wait till I get home to post

It's been 24 hours since this post, you've posted in other games and nothing here. Care to share why you replaced in?

[Cerulean]

Soul - What's your read on Jesse? Independent of who he could be partners with.

[Cerulean]

Arthur

Arthur - why are you so adamant against a slimmer lynch? What the hell was so town about Jesse? Did you read his day one play?

[Cerulean]

Thor, approximately how conservative would you say you are as a scum player?

(Regfan, reads still coagulating.)

~Empire.

[Cerulean]

So, Empire and I have decided we're lynching every single one of you en masse at one time. Good game. Go us!

[Cerulean]

Yea I skimmed/read at some parts his day 1 play. It didn't seem that bad?

Didn't seem that bad? He spent the majority of day one doing a mafia buzzword by attacking me and discrediting my read on Sixty. I mean Mehdi can say he put a lot of thought into the day, but I put a lot of thought into arguing that a vanilla townie was a scum role in American Revolution too. It doesn't change the fact that he was hard defending scum day one and hard attacking their biggest detractor. He didn't even get a leaning scum read on Sixty until Post 519 when Sixty added him to his town list who shouldn't be lynched.

Why are your reads so effing bland this game? And where's F-16? Like you're just..."reads genuine...i dunno". And you never did answer why you had such a hard town read on Thor when you replaced in to the point where you were basing your read on me on what I thought of Thor. And then the very next day decide Thor was scum.

[Cerulean]

Arthur you are literally driving me insane this game.

[Cerulean]

I don't think Deadpool is scum, but he's playing really oddly.

"Not comfortable with any vote"...Welcome to our world.

~Empire.

[Cerulean]

Right now, I kinda want Jesse's slot lynched...a lot of the stuff he's done seems to comport with his scum meta re: buddy interactions, especially if you think Sixty was expected to carry the team + everything theslimer3 has posted sucked ass. Want to wait for the replacement though (please let's get someone readable.)

~Empire.

[Cerulean]

Cerulean, please don't tell me you guys are really still harbouring suspicion towards Deadpool. There's a lot in this game I'm uncertain about but them and you guys as town is one of the things that I'd bank on at this point. Really need to see your guys thoughts and reads soon

Most of it's paranoia, and Arthur reading off to me and F-16 not really posting at all. We'll be putting together our reads and thoughts soon, if not tomorrow...the next day.

[Cerulean]

This post really sucks ass in hindsight and in context (just after Thor's pushing on N).

~Empire.

[Cerulean]

Thor, what didn't you like about this post?

~Empire.

[Cerulean]

Oh, and if you're tossing out the Thor/N pairing you can explain to me the logic of that one.
Y'know, where F-16 thinks I tried to save a busted buddy by bussing the other one?

But you wouldn't exactly be bussing would you? There was a very little chance that an N wagon was going to happen that day, not with the way Sixty hammered Voided and how much JT and I were arguing for the Sixty wagon to happen. You could have very easily planned to "push" an N wagon to "trap" someone ahead of time and argue that it was a pro-town maneuver.

[Cerulean]

When you ask a player why they have a townread on a player it does make it look like you have a scumread on them

also note that I later said "Oh wait nvm Tampire can be town for surie" which was put when I looked back and realized you might not have a scumread on Thor.

Btw Tammy, who is scum?

~Hero of Hire

I've bolded for you the important part Arthur. Now why is your read on me dependent on my read on Thor.

Oh right that. Yea because it would've been really dumb to have a scumread on Thor then. Note it's not really completely dependent, as I did say you're were towntelling pretty hard but I still didn't understand your Thor scumread, then I realized that question might not have totally indicated you had a scumread on Thor.

Arthur - If it was so dumb for me to have a phantom scum read on Thor, why do you have one now?

[Cerulean]

Regfan, ignoring PoE for a moment, does Jesse's slot look town to you at all?

Faraday, what made you change your mind on N?

~Empire.

[Cerulean]

Most of it's paranoia, and Arthur reading off to me and F-16 not really posting at all. We'll be putting together our reads and thoughts soon, if not tomorrow...the next day.

We need to cut down on paranoia though, the games already difficult enough without constantly doubting a read and he's not worthy of being paranoid of at all when you look at how obvtown Absta makes the slot. Plus add the fact that I think a lot of your dislike of the slot is due to him dealing with you guys in an aggressive manner when replacing in.

I'm trying to cut down on the paranoia and if I could see Arthur's town game here, I'd be able to. I can't believe you're ctually suggesting that it's because he was aggressive with me upon replacing in. That means you have completely missed why I was suspicious of him in the first place and why I didn't like his behavior because you're too caught up with telling me why his asking for reads and behavior made sense and not looking at it how I saw it. I was asking Arthur questions about why he had such a strong town read of Thor that he would base his read of me on my read of Thor. He kept refusing to answer that question, along with the other questions I asked him. I asked him to answer the questions and then he started pushing me. It read to me as him deflecting onto me to put the focus elsewhere and make me look suspicious. He still is refusing to answer questions in any way that makes a lick of sense. Like his recent town read of Jesse it's "some things read genuine". Like fucking seriously. Arthur sometimes has problems explaining reads but I can usually follow his thought process and I can't here. And now he has a scum read on thor which literally happened over night. Why was his read on Thor such a strong town read the night he replaced in that his town read of me was dependent on me reading Thor as town and then the next day was a scum read. Why can't he answer this question? Like it shouldnt be hard. And even that night when I asked why he had such a strong town read of him, he was like "dunno probs read something genuine". *shrug*

Now will you stop being blinded by your certainty that absta replaced out because he was compromised and dismissing my suspicion because you think I hold some grudge about being treated aggressively, when if you'll look I was obviously suspicious of the way he replaced in in the first place, and take me a little seriously please?

[Cerulean]

if it makes you feel any better i wanted him lynched until about 3 rl days ago and was hunting for his buddies w/o telling regfan

What changed your mind?

[Cerulean]

Oh, and if you're tossing out the Thor/N pairing you can explain to me the logic of that one.
Y'know, where F-16 thinks I tried to save a busted buddy by bussing the other one?

But you wouldn't exactly be bussing would you? There was a very little chance that an N wagon was going to happen that day, not with the way Sixty hammered Voided and how much JT and I were arguing for the Sixty wagon to happen. You could have very easily planned to "push" an N wagon to "trap" someone ahead of time and argue that it was a pro-town maneuver.

Okay, and that brings us back full circle to "then why would I not buss Sixty for towncred?"
Yes, if we want to say my scumhunting was fake scumhunting because I knew there would be derp town who would fall for it and that was better than just speed rushing Sixty on a day he obviously was not talking to try to limit town's ability to learn more - then, yeah, that was my plan.

But why would you buss for town cred? That's a little predictable isn't it? And you just said as scum you make choices that are steeped in wifom. I just think you are perfectly capable of doing that as mafia, and you wouldn't be putting your partner in danger in the process.

[Cerulean]

So, I feel pretty dumb. I didn't realize until N's 1327 that arhturs avatar was someone holding a guitar in a storm. I thought it was a gun and was an avatar he had chosen for his world war ii game. I'm special :duncecap:

[Cerulean]

Thor! I want to frolic through daisies and sunflowers. Keep it straight.

[Cerulean]

Arthur, is F-16 ever going to post in this thread again? And why hasn't he done so? I know he's been around.

~Empire.

[Cerulean]

Yes, because unlike F-16, OS hasn't been posting prolifically elsewhere.

~Empire.

[Cerulean]

Waiting for the replacement at this point. I'm not saying anything reads-wise until that happens.

~Empire.

[Cerulean]

The whole hydra dissonance angle of attack on Deadpool has been rather lame for a while Faraday, GET WITH IT.

~Empire.

[Cerulean]

Empire told you!

[Cerulean]

OKAY BUT REGFAN'S AUSTRALIAN. (In an alignment indicative way)

Okay, but how does that rate on the sexiness scale with and Irish accent? Just wondering.

[Cerulean]

Who's attacking who over dissonance?

Thor/N have been pushing this whole WELL BOTH HEADS THINK DIFFERENTLY ABOUT JESSE AND HAVE EXTRAPOLATED DIFFERENT READS FROM IT, THAT'S SCUMMY AS HELL BRO for a while now.

~Empire.

[Cerulean]

Well, not different in the case of N, but you know what I mean.

God, my posting has been terrible lately.

~Empire.

[Cerulean]

:snooze: Arthur thinks Jesse's town. F-16 thinks Jesse's scum. Something of Arthur's has been interpreted as meaning that any push on Jesse is scummy and scum motivated. But the counter is how can that be so if his other head thinks Jesse is scum. It's all great enjoyment, but really the only person that Arthur has explicitly stated it was scummy to think was scum was Thor when he replaced in, but not now because he has a scum read on Thor.

[Cerulean]

(Tbh I vaguely want to just flip N and Slimer as I don't think both slots are town so etc?)

I can get behind that.

[Cerulean]

^^^Wasn't Empire.

[Cerulean]

Hurm, I also wanted to link to some game that I know exists where we sat around in the DeadQT talking about how I read him like that, but I can't find it.
Whatevs. It exists.

Why did you want to prove it?

[Cerulean]

Want to reiterate that N's townread on Thor here is fucking awful. It seems to me like he should have been much more weirded out by Thor's push on him considering the context (Sixty basically claiming scum with the Voided hammer, which he acknowledges).

~Empire.

First time for everything, I guess.

[Cerulean]

Cerueal, I'm not saying that your sole suspicion of Deadpool is based on his replace in but I am saying that I think it's made you somewhat biased of the situation because you're so close to it. I haven't had much of any issue with anything coming from them and are finding so much of Arthurs posting genuine but that's really unneeded given Absta makes the slot town alone.

If you mean that f-16 replace in post was fairly bland and that he made sure to include a null Thor in it which was followed up by Arthur's strange super strong town read of thors that he refused to or couldnt explain...so strong to the extent that he was basing his read of me on whether or not I had Thor as a strong town read and instead of answering the questions I directed at him he deflected onto me, yes, I hold his replace in suspect. That night it looked to me that he was thors partner, this was further intensified to me by the way he came in the next day and decided that Thor was scum and couldn't really explain that turn around either. His push on piggy was super forced, especially Post 895 when Arthur (emote and smiley king) thinks her posts look forced with all the emotes and smilies. So, that day he decided there was a piggy/Thor partnership (even though the very night before Thor was such a strong town read because "probs read something genuine" that to suspect him was near as good a scum claim. But did he suggest lynching Thor? No. Now today he finds an N/Thor partnership but is there a suggestion to lynch Thor? No, we should lynch N.

Now can you possibly see where my lingering paranoia is. Please stop suggesting that it has anything to do with me still being mad or emotional or something. Pless dismisses me all the time due to his belief that I only suspect people because they questioned me when the fact is I call people town far more often than scum. Hell arhturs pushed me harder than this in more than one game, tried to get me lynched for silly reasons, and I've called him town in the process. So, please don't dismiss me like that because all its doing is making me dig my heels in for what I see as valid suspicion. I don't want that and this game doesn't need that.

Of course you find all arhturs posts genuine, you decided he was near confirmed town before he replaced in. I'm not going to outguess the situation and not try to actually read Arthur because of the way absta replaced out. There is some of Arthur's posts that look genuine, and I'm trying to see his town game here. But I'm also not as confident that absta was obvtown either. The pints you bring up as town tells, I don't find overwhelmingly town as some of it (complaining about the thread locking, followed up by not knowing or caring how the process worked, even the fake hammer) look somewhat exaggerated and fake to me. His claim to not be confident in his read of voided and then in his next post vote voided with the disclaimer "and I'm only on the 5th post in iso" read off, and he never addresses the question I put to him about it.

So, no I'm not as confident the slot is town. I liked most of f-16s posts but it's worrisome that he hasn't posted again. And some of Arthur's posts do read genuine but a lot of it I don't. He has a town read on Jesse that he can't xpalin beyond "dunno...genuine" when he can actually answer why he has reads. Yes, a lot of his reads are based on gut, but he was able to explain his soul town read, but that's the only one he's actually answered with something that makes sense. And I am somewhat concerned/paranoid of a Thor/deadpool partnership.

[Cerulean]

Cogito Ergo Sum replaces theslimer3.

Great as if this game wasn't hard enough. I called it too.

(For the love of god, you better be town.)

~Empire.

[Cerulean]

Yarr

VOTE: ces

OMGUS








But it puts you an l-1 so I have to

UNVOTE:

[Cerulean]

@JT - as someone with a townish vibe on him, how do you feel about Oversoul's case on me and my reaction to it. I would think one of us would look bad there considering the intensity of what I'm saying about that case.

No, not really. Making a bad case isn't scummy.

Le truth. I've made some horrible cases as town...unfortunately usually on other town . Which is probably why I don't make as many cases as I used to.

[Cerulean]

Not really. I replaced into a scum slot in an opposite world in otherworld. But my grand contribution to that game was to push a lynch on the opposing scum in vi's world before getting lynched in mine the next day. So, yes...but not really. Why?

[Cerulean]

Vi modded mafia behind the maiden and I was in that.

[Cerulean]

I'd counter with your face is boring, but I already used that once this game. I think there's a limit.

How much of the game have you read CES? Do you have any thoughts so far? And, why did you ask me about Vi?

[Cerulean]

hey faraday - didn't you say you re-read absta a few days ago and decided they're town? What read town to you?

[Cerulean]

Faraday - I know you can answer a question better than that. Help me out here, please?

[Cerulean]

Thank you faraday, yeah we've thought that post seemed not partnerish as well.

Mehdi - How are our reads coming along since CES has replaced in a couple hours ago and I haven't had a chance to talk to Empire and CES hasn't done anything? Well, he's trolled, which he never does as scum, so obviously he's town. Oh wait. Also, he's voting for me, which is a town tell, no wait a scum tell, no wait a null tell.

I just finished re-reading the game last night and we haven't really had that much time to talk the past couple days. We've discussed some of our reads and thoughts, but since he posted last night that he wanted to wait to give reads until the replacement and I haven't talked to him today I don't know where his head is at.

I do know that the one thing we both absolutely agree on is JT being town.

[Cerulean]

^^^Sorry, some of that might have been snarkier than I intended. This game is getting on my nerves a little right now.

[Cerulean]

JT - both those crossed out parts <3 and lol

I can understand bullshitting reads. Arthur does that sometimes, and thank you for looking at it ina way that's not dismissive. What I keep coming back to is that *its dumb to suspect Thor, near scum claim if you do but can't explain it to the next day suspecting him.*. And I know he answered it but I keep coming back to it. Empire can probably tell you that I've been spending far too much time on the issue of Arthur, showing him town and scum explanations from previous games, and pointing out posts that are what I expect from town Arthur in this game. I don't really have a problem with their reasoning for voting for N at all as that makes sense and I really really want to believe Arthur's town here. I think empire thinks those cations of absta read more town than I do, and we've read and discussed absta's scum games, including the one that finished quite recently with Thor as compared to here, along with his town game. *im actually doing meta research something I never ever do so I hope everyone is quite satisfied to the levels I have stooped to (risen to?) this game*. Although I think it's made me more lost than my usual slowness in the head allows.

Agree with you on your assessment of N's scum game. Empire and I discussed that recently in that whoever suggested that he would be too nervous (if I'm remembering that correctly) to jokingly say he was piggy's partner after her lynch as scum is wrong in light of the way he played as scum.

What bothers me, us, is the way that both jesse and N behaved after piggy's lynch. Jesse said he hoped there was no tomorrow or something but then why Post 912? And likewise with N why Post 922?

[Cerulean]

I agree with that bit as his activity site wide hasn't been that great in recent weeks, but they show him not being scaredy-cat scum.

[Cerulean]

I didn't look at the timing. I think I remember someone saying that you wouldn't be likely to make a joke like that as scum, but you're scum game shows you're not nervous scum so it's null.

N - how proactive would you say you've been in this game in narrowing down who the scum are? There's a very good chance you'll be lynched today. What are your thoughts on that?

[Cerulean]

^^^Sorry, some of that might have been snarkier than I intended. This game is getting on my nerves a little right now.

That's because we haven't lynched anyone and all we're doing is sitting around drinking wine and wondering why everything is getting so convoluted.

I'm tring to resist the merlot.

[Cerulean]

. I was suspicious of Sixty after their shitty case on Piggy.

If you were suspicious of sixty after their shitty case on piggy, why is the very first time you mentioned sixty, and that, in Post 436 AFTER they scum claimed with the hammer? You didn't say anything before that, you just kept focusing on piggy. The only other people you mentioned was responding to my town read of you and to give a town read to soul.

[Cerulean]

. I was suspicious of Sixty after their shitty case on Piggy.

If you were suspicious of sixty after their shitty case on piggy, why is the very first time you mentioned sixty, and that, in Post 436 AFTER they scum claimed with the hammer? You didn't say anything before that, you just kept focusing on piggy. The only other people you mentioned was responding to my town read of you and to give a town read to soul.

Good point... I

was

thinking it, but I can't prove that.

All I can say is that I was barely around day 1, so (I hope) it's understandable that I didn't want to bring up things people had already discussed ten pages afterwards just to say "I also think this". I think I did say a bit later that although I found Piggy independently scummy, I doubted she and Sixty were partners - not sure if that was before or after Sixty's actual flip.

No, it's really not understandable. I mean, sure you were busy and so weren't active, but if you thought that I needed you in here backing me up. It makes no sense for you to say now that you thought that but didn't want to say "I also think this". It wasn't exactly a popular opinion that the case was shitty. Thor, voided mafia, Jesse And equinox all liked the case. Piggygal was basically town reading them and absta didn't say anything about it either except to note that their gambit looked like they were trying to get him mislynched. The only person really backing me up on sixty being scum and having a bad case was soul and then JT when they replaced in but they still were more confident in voidedmafia being scum than sixty. So, if you thought that when you posted Post 241 it was definitely needed and wouldn't have been redundant as jesse was working to discredit my suspicion. But you didn't say anything about it, you didn't even mention the issue though it was one of the biggest topics of conversation. You chose to only question piggy some more and point out that my town read of you was for bad reasoning. If you thought at that time it was a bad case against piggy, why didn't you say anything about that it that post or in Post 282 when you dropped in to give a town read of soul and ask why the piggy wagon was falling apart? You saying the ting about greener pastures elsewhere does not indicate you thinking that sixty wrote a shitty case against piggy.

Oh and I'll help you out. Before sixty was lynched you were calling a sixty/piggy team. It wasn't until we were waiting on the sixty hammer in Post 533 that you started suggesting they wouldn't write such a bad case on a partner.

Did it not surprise you at all when Thor voted for you instead of sixty on the day that sixty was pretty much the guaranteed lynch?

[Cerulean]

But you didn't say that. You didn't even mention sixty at that point. As I said, it wasn't until they scum claimed with the hammer that you mentioned the bad case.

Also, were you not surprised to find that Thor was voting for you instead of the near confirmed scum sixty on day two? Did you not find it a little strange at all?

[Cerulean]

I'd like you to explain that one to me N. Thor voted you in Post 493 Immediately after we voted sixty in Post 492 and AND there is a mod count post immediately after thors vote, which does not show that he would have put sixty at l-1. It does not matter where in the vote position sixty was either. My point is that sixty were the near guaranteed lynch for that day. You didn't find it strange that Thor decided to vote you instead? No matter what sixty had said that day. You were calling them scum? It totally didn't strike you as odd that Thor was voting for you? If I were town in your position I definitely wouldn't have given a town read to thor because he voted for me in that situation like you did in Post 513. That doesn't show me surprise at being voted over the Hydra who scum claimed.

Also, Why am I pushing this? Because I care about finding the last scum I have to, and you are looking like it. So, N, do you have any questions about my alignment? You shouldn't and therfore you should know that my questions to you are 100% genuine. If you think I'm just going to go oh he's mad must be town, you can forget that. If you're town, I need real answers to your questions because you should understand how bad you look. I'm not pussyfooting around anything. I have to choose between you or CES for who I will go for today and the way you've answered my questions don't make me feel better about you.

You don't make any sense in your "I was short on time and had to pick my battles* because as I pointed out you kept pushing on piggy then after sixty scum claimed, you were like oh yeah I was suspicious of them too.

In short, I don't think you're town, but I'm trying to get a read on you. Reacting to me like that isn't helping you at all. And if by some chance you are town you need to check your attitude at the door and actually help town.

[Cerulean]

N - I'll respond to your latest post later. It's late, I should think about sleep. But every one of your responses make me feel like I want to: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOqn8FxuyFs

[Cerulean]

You might even get a vorpal hammer! (I took a special crafting feat )

[Cerulean]

I just got home and will be around for the next ~6-7 hours as I have a bunch of papers to grade. Empire will not be around at all, and if we don't get this right tonight, he won't be here until the weekend.

I'm going to eat some dinner and take care of a few things then I'll catch up.

[Cerulean]

CES - why do you prefer N over Thor? Mehdi asked and I don't think you answered.

[Cerulean]

I understand what you meant - that's why I answered to that point.

Point 2 rather does matter - especially considering I'd flat out called him scum the Day prior.
Point 3 begs the question why bother then if I didn't care if I got a town to follow me or not - why not just bus?

Regarding point 2 - are you referring to N? You didn't flat out call N scum the day before. You complained that I somehow found him more towny than you, but you never called him scum.

[Cerulean]

I did answer - N is easier to get lynched.

Oh I missed that. Do you have a scum read on Thor?

[Cerulean]

Thor-N does make a lot of sense.

I didn't ask that though. I asked if you had a scum read on him.

[Cerulean]

And those people are? JT doesn't seem to be one, Ceru is leaning N, and the rest are voting.

And amazingly it *still* has a better chance to go through than your wagon on me.
So...

If ces is your big scum read, what are you doing to get the lynch on your scum read to happen besides attack the case made on you?

[Cerulean]

Thor-N does make a lot of sense.

I didn't ask that though. I asked if you had a scum read on him.

I don't see how that doesn't answer your question.

Okay, why does Thor-N make a lot of sense?

[Cerulean]

N- CES's vote on me isn't a serious vote.

[Cerulean]

CES - if you have. Scum read on Thor, why not join soul on Thor?

[Cerulean]

Why didn't you answer my question in 1683?

[Cerulean]

Like who?

[Cerulean]

And why is ces/Thor impossible. CES is calling Thor scum (basically) but is refusing to answer questions and is using pretty hard away from a Thor lynch. And thors not really trying to get CES lynched either.

[Cerulean]

*pushing pretty hard...damn autocorrect.

[Cerulean]

LOL. Okay CES. I'm allowed some paranoia. You're not the easiest person to read you know.

[Cerulean]

Keep reading Thor you'll see me tell CES I got paranoid.

[Cerulean]

I think soul is looking more and more town. Don't get where you're getting them scum claiming.

[Cerulean]

And why is ces/Thor impossible. CES is calling Thor scum (basically) but is refusing to answer questions and is using pretty hard away from a Thor lynch. And thors not really trying to get CES lynched either.

I'm pretty sure there was a good argument about how Jesse and Thor can't be partnered because they were pushing each other and had their votes on each other on the piggy lynch day, which does make a lot of sense seeing as it'd be rather stupid to push each other knowing that they only one of them had to die for scum to lose and there was no way for them to determine that that Piggy lynch was going to arise from which was seemingly thin air.

Well my thought was that with Jesse especially he kept jumping between Thor and n. and Thor hasn't been pushing it all that hard. I do agree that it would be rather dangerous as we could have easily jumped on Jesse especially with the way he went after me for my attack on sixty and defended sixty. That thought was mostly paranoia based.

[Cerulean]

I think soul is looking more and more town. Don't get where you're getting them scum claiming.

It was a good game and I do enjoy playing with you Thor.

Just find me any game ever where town says this sort of thing.
I've literally never seen it except from scum.
Have you?

.

So, when deadpool put up the picture that said good game after the piggy lynch that came from scum?

I'd say what soul said is more likely to come from town who believes in his scum read and that the game is about to end. There's no need for I'm as scum to say that to you now when a mislynch today doesn't end the game. A scum lynch does.

[Cerulean]

I already said it was paranoia based more than once, okay?

[Cerulean]

I already said it was paranoia based more than once, okay?

This game is driving me nuts. I'm allowed.

[Cerulean]

Tammy, wanna be cool and vote N?

I kinda want to be cooler and vote Thor.

[Cerulean]

Oh yeah, it's late for you.

Regfan thinks thors town though.

Bleh. I guess we can deal with it if theres a tomorrow.

[Cerulean]

And you're silly if you think my issue with you is based on OS secret evidence

[Cerulean]

Also double Bleh, my wish pretty much got vetoed anyway. Empire prefers an N vote and we really don that've time to discuss anything different anyway.

[Cerulean]

VOTE: N

[Cerulean]

Ugh Thor - I was nowhere near set on wanting an N lynch until recently. I was seriously looking at the Jesse/deadpool/n/you slot and I was on vacation for a week, so I really don't know what you're talking about.

[Cerulean]

So Thor - are you doing that thing you do where you go caps raged frustration to look town when you're not?

[Cerulean]

Ugh Thor - I was nowhere near set on wanting an N lynch until recently. I was seriously looking at the Jesse/deadpool/n/you slot and I was on vacation for a week, so I really don't know what you're talking about.

I may just be tooting my own horn - but one "skill" I think I have in mafia games is a strong ability to feel who is going to be lynched and who isn't. It's one of the reasons I felt comfortable enough to play with the Sixty lynch.

You were all going to lynch N today - the writing was painfully on the wall.
Jesse was a decent shot to have happen and I thought maybe it would happen...but...no.
However, yes, N was a dead man walking. I really believe that, I also really believe all the reading done by everyone was really just looking for justification to lynch him as opposed to reading for actual alignment - the problem with 'reads' when decisions have already been reached.

Also - hate you all.

You're exactly right I knew I was going to lynch N all this time, but didn't vote. Whatever Thor, you're right. I wanted to look for reasons I was right about N, when my biggest paranoia was you and deadpool. But, carry on...

[Cerulean]

So Thor - are you doing that thing you do where you go caps raged frustration to look town when you're not?

Want a link to me doing it as town?
You don't get to talk to me like that right now.

Doesn't matter, I can link you to a scum qt where you talk about fake doing it to look like town.

[Cerulean]

I wanted to look for reasons I was right about N, when my biggest paranoia was you and deadpool. But, carry on...

Did you even do this? I don't recall fielding one question from you to me about Deadpool today.

If you would have read regfan you would have seen him talking me out of it. It's something I agonized over because of the way deadpool's read on you changed. But I didn't push it because I was trying to work it out myself.

[Cerulean]

AND HE'LL YES.

also, a lot of the reading we did this week was mehdi's meta. Because we were trying to get a better read on soul. We kept going back and forth.

[Cerulean]

For a split second I did worry about that, but I'd been so paranoid about Thor too.

Thank the gods empire vetoed my desire to lynch thor.

Sorry for doubting you Thor!

[Cerulean]

Yeah, thors near dismissal of the way you answered my questions, and it not making him read you more scummy, really had me thinking you guys were partners. (I was still nursing some secret paranoia of a deadpool/Thor team from the way that Arthur was like Thor so town/he might be scum thing). So I was like lynch Thor that will be win-win.

I was wrong about that though sorry:(

Empire it was great fun hydraing with you and I hope we can do it again!

This game was a lot of fun and I'm so glad we won it in the end. My head was going to explode if we lost after having gotten it right with sixty right away.

I had a great time playing with all of you, and thanks cfj for running it!

[Cerulean]

Regarding the setup, I get what you are saying about the playerlist getting better as opposed to worse. To town, it was beneficial because town were able to follow the lead of Cerulean and JT and scum were powerless to stop them. I still think if I were scum, it would have ridiculously hard to get away with no nightkills. For instance, if Cerulean suspected anyone, there would have been literally no way to worm out of it considering they were near confirmed.

I think I realised this too late. Early on, both were looking at lynching Jesse, so I was happy to let them be obvtown. But as that last day went on, I was trying to discredit JT and was going to push a Deadpool/JT scumteam on the last day if we'd managed to lynch Jesse.

That wouldn't have happened. Empire and I have both played with regfan and knew he was town. Faradays harder to read but he was still very town. Deadpool wouldn't have followed you on that either, especially pushing that team.