Open 461: True Love (GAME OVER)

[CF Riot]

Hi.

[CF Riot]

Read the game now. Ambivalent about claiming cubes. Had Moneybags as a scumread based off a misunderstanding of the setup but I figured that out so now he's null, but I wouldn't miss him and GG is kinda scummy so I'm okay voting him. I'm leery of the multiple people calling IAUN town. He hasn't done anything scummy but I don't really see anything he's done to make others want to call him town. Mala is scummy too I guess.

vote: greygnarl

[CF Riot]

lol no.

pedit: that's at GG.

[CF Riot]

What benefit would that be to you?

Now that he answered, what benefit would that be to scum?

[CF Riot]

Unless you have meta to back it up being lazy isn't a scumtell, and in this specific instance the information he wanted didn't require close examination of the thread. It just needed one person who knows what's going on to re-post it, then we're all back on the same page. What info do you have to support your assumption that scum want to know the pairs more than town? Or are you just pulling that one out of the back door?

[CF Riot]

Unvote

I could see MB hammering and I'm not done with D1 yet.

Okay, but clearly it's common sense that MB said GG was his cube. I don't get the vote on GG by JL just because GG didn't say I also confirmed that I'm his cube.

I'm not following this post. Maybe it's worded awkwardly, maybe it's me, Idk but could you try this again in a different format?

The role fishing thing doesn't apply here. Role fishing is looking for hidden information from town. What he was asking for was not hidden information. Just for the sake of argument, I feel scum are less likely to try and pull pair claims because they already know 2 of the 4, which also makes it easier to guess at the other 2, and even if they don't figure it out they're both equally town/town so it shouldn't matter much to them.

[CF Riot]

@IAUN: I was considering the cost/benefit of claiming partners for scum and town, and I had the thought that scum may favor a public partner claim so their buddy would know who not to lynch, but then I remembered this was nightless and scum have daytalk so obviously they already know. So MB seemed scummy for wanting to out his pairing so badly but then not because that makes no sense and GG's reaction to the whole thing seemed pretty bad, which of course makes MB look better since them being scum is an either/or situation. There's actually quite a few things GG has done that I find scummy. One I already listed was calling you prob-town for "trying to get things done" which I felt was weak and could easily be faked by scum. The others I'm sitting on because I actually want to hear why Lyman thinks GG is scum, because I guess I had a reading fail on post 123 and now that I understand it I agree it's a weak reason to be L-1 on the wagon.

Mala scum read came from the bad reaction to being voted. See posts 56, 58, 61, iso 4-6. Frustration due to not being able to talk her way out of the votes, then discrediting the votes which were explained as gut by calling them random and bs. She also held onto her Om vote for quite a while without ever stating a reason for it then dropped it without mentioning anything he's done to change her read.

[CF Riot]

Wait, are you giving me the reason you think Om is scum, or the reason you don't? Cause you just said he's aggressive as scum but he's not aggressive this game, which should be a towntell right?

[CF Riot]

the only awesome person is Bitmap

I take real offense to this. In other news, who are you hoping will answer your question about Lyman on the other page? I have a couple theories, but I was kind of waiting to see if anyone else would bite.

@Mala I actually see what you're talking about now. My only question then is what made you switch to GG?

[CF Riot]

Timeline?

[CF Riot]

Here ya go. She has since explained her Om read, but not really why she unvoted him. How did you miss this?

[CF Riot]

Didn't notice, but it's not the same situation. Mala had her vote on Om from like page 1 and didn't ever post a reason, and when she switched to GG she still hadn't said a word about Om one way or another. You've been hopping around with your vote all day so moving from Om to GG doesn't stand out from any of your other hops. Rereading I can't even tell if you legitimately suspect Om or if you were just voting him to fish for reactions.

[CF Riot]

Seriously though, how did you miss it? My conversation with Mala about Om was a good 5 or 6 posts which happened right before you showed up in thread.

[CF Riot]

Pfft. Mala please. If anything he's playing the wifom game but that's not a legit slip.

[CF Riot]

I also disagree with the statement that the day has gone on too long as we're just now hitting page 8 and this game has a max of 3 lynches until game over. We also have people like Josh Lyman who has I think 3-4 real posts and MB who despite his willingness to be lynched has only really expressed his opinion on GG until now.

Om convince me of Bitmap scum.

[CF Riot]

^What is the point of that post? I understand what you're saying, but why? What are you proving right there?

Still think rushing the lynch is stupid with people lurking and over a week left until deadline.

[CF Riot]

If nothing else you should at least be patient and see if Lyman shows or not because that was his 3rd prod and if he doesn't turn up soon we'll get a replacement. May as well let them do all their catch up bullshit on this deadline timer before we get a new one for D2, rather than someone hammering cause they're bored and then us not getting any kind of read on a slot until halfway through possible lylo.

I was biting my tongue cause like I told IAUN I wanted to see what Lyman had to say but he may not even show up and the replacement's reaction won't apply to Lyman's reads. Honestly I think GG is town now. I'm bout to post why but I see I'm being ninja'd so I'll put this part out there now while I find quotes.

[CF Riot]

I have an answer but I guess you want Mala to answer first.

I was going to say scum want to appear to be doing something by asking questions that accomplish nothing.

She's saying that she thinks Lyman voted me because I failed to mention that I confirmed Moneybags as my cube. She doesn't understand why he voted me because of it.

Scum don't post like this. Town posts like this. He answered a question asked to someone else who already answered themselves. The only saving grace to the wagon is MB rushing the lynch actually is scummy but since it's his own lynch as well I don't know whether to think it's a bluff or if he's just lazy town.

[CF Riot]

Because I never gave direct reads towards other people.

This isn't doing it for me. What made you decide to suddenly give these reads on people you haven't before now? What made you pick Mala and me? This is all aside from the fact that the reads you gave are pretty lukewarm.

[CF Riot]

MB did you read any of the posts on this page?

[CF Riot]

My other game just went into night, I'm bored. Do we have enough interactions to want to claim lovers now?

[CF Riot]

I mean, CF and and Mala doesn't seem really scummy compared to you and gg at this point. CF's accusations on Mala seem town motivated and Mala hasn't done anything really scummy.

^What is the point of that post? I understand what you're saying, but why? What are you proving right there?

Because I never gave direct reads towards other people.

This isn't doing it for me. What made you decide to suddenly give these reads on people you haven't before now? What made you pick Mala and me? This is all aside from the fact that the reads you gave are pretty lukewarm.

RBD reminded me this wasn't ever answered.

[CF Riot]

Hey Om is only at L-2 but don't hammer before I get a chance to post some more today k?

UserNom was pretty good btw. I smiled when I read that.

[CF Riot]

Hey Dashie, a word?

[CF Riot]

She's not answering. Just making a note that Bitmap's ignored my question twice now. I don't really have a townread on MB but KittenBits voting you(Grey) is a valuable piece of info and cuts down the possible teams MB could be a part of. If UserNom goes today and flips towntown Dashie and I are going tomorrow. I was leaning towards us going today but if IAUN's on board I think I'm okay lynching them first.

[CF Riot]

I really don't think GG is scum, but Bitmap I could believe.

[CF Riot]

Vote: Om

[CF Riot]

GreyMoney should be the survivors if me and Om are both town and MalaBit is Om is scum

I pretty much agree with this.

[CF Riot]

The votecount has some names wrong.

Fixed! Thanks.

Vote: Moneybags

[CF Riot]

I consider that RD may be scum, but he rallied the Om wagon at a time when he could've gone another direction so I'm letting him ride today. If Greymoney town flips you'll help me send him to the grave tomorrow.

[CF Riot]

Actually wait.

unvote

Both heads of greymoney are self voting right now. I may reread.

[CF Riot]

Vote: Moneybags

[CF Riot]

I mentioned this earlier in the thread somewhere but the only time I brought up Om was when I first replaced in, I asked Lyman who I should vote. He said he was leaning Om, and I asked why. Between me asking and Lyman's reply, Om voted Lyman, and I voted GG. Lyman then came back and said basically, "I was leaning Om but now I think GG is better." I asked again "why Om" and Lyman disappeared after that so I never got an answer. This made me think maybe Om/Lyman distancing because Lyman sort of dodged the question the first time by simply switching targets.

[CF Riot]

Ugh, I think it's Bit now instead of Dashie and that's just going to reflect badly on me cause I'm about to swing.

Dashie, for your own sake, try and make a case on me and put it on a notepad or something. Then start with a fresh slate and try to make a case on Bit, and see how they compare.

Bit I challenge you to make any kind of case on me OR Dash that isn't "Mala is town."

I'll be making the case on Bit.

[CF Riot]

Bit case is done. Not posting yet to try and let Dashie get his own read without feeling like I coerced him into it. Don't send me off without at least reading it, cause I put in work.

[CF Riot]

Oh yeah.

Vote: Bitmap

[CF Riot]

I'm still here. I'm just waiting on cases or reads or something from Bit and Dash. Sala did make 3 posts but none of them were game related.

[CF Riot]

I'd be happier if you made your own cases on us first.

[CF Riot]

Hey Dashie that wasn't it was it? I mean that wasn't your full reads summary, surely.

[CF Riot]

I know nothing of Mala's meta or her reputation on site nevermind as I write this I'm aware Om probably does and could've told me. Whatever. Show me where I've buddied everyone else. Being the hammer isn't scummy. Why do you not consider the possibility of Dash-scum?

I pretty much saw this coming from Bit, but Dashie I'm disappointed in your lack of case. My turn. Incoming.

[CF Riot]

#63 Om is leaving the door open to vote Mala if necessary but trying to avoid it.
89 Om softballing Mala when he could just as easily fake a strong read and push.
95-99 Bit voting Om after Mala and Grey. This is the bus zone.
111 promptly bails off once heat switches to Grey.
160 Bitmap reads half of each pair other than himself as scum. It's here that I'm starting to think Om and Bit planned a strategy of calling each other scum if they have to, but each other's cube town, for the dual purpose of fighting off lynches of each other but still pulling bus points.
164 Bit never follows up on this, because there's currently no support for a Riot wagon.
172,175,177 Om: Watch me tell you how much I suspect Bit while I leave my vote on Lyman who I've said fuckall about all game. Considering how Om plays, which of those two do you think is his buddy?
182 gave me a weird gut feel when I first read it and it still seems out of place even knowing Bit and Mala cubed. Bitmap's reason for making the post in 184 never satisfied me either.
Meanwhile checkout the votecount in 200. Bit on one wagon, Om on the other, riding the storm out while Riot, who could easily still be on the GG wagon, keeps asking no one to hammer until the replacement shows. Note this replacement comes in, kills the wagon on GG-town and proceeds to fry Om's ass.
223 Bit light defense of Om.
237 Weak, leaving backdoor open to vote Dashie if needed.
253 LOOK AT THAT VOTECOUNT. Why isn't Bit voting Om yet? Bit's been calling Om-scum since 95, but he's voting GG for flailing.
258,260 I agree to IAUN saying KittenBits should survive if Om flips scum.
267 IAUN does the Abed. This isn't important, I just noticed it on this reread and thought it was funny.
272 "Don't lynch Mala or me"
288 "RBD, tell them not to lynch Mala (or me)"
291 "Remember guys, don't lynch us"
298 being cute, but w/e, town does this sometimes.
304 Last post, see how quick he is to put down his vote. He was reading Om scum forever and never managed to get that vote down, cause buddy. He read GG as scum and posted 3 times D2 but didn't put that vote down, cause avoiding townflip. But in lylo, woah, now we've got the confidence to throw our vote down first post. It doesn't make sense guys. It doesn't flow. Bit is scum, and he's tickled pink that everyone is calling his pair town. Think hard on this. It's the right call.

[CF Riot]

It would most likely be helpful to pull up a triple iso of Bit/Om/Guille for that pbpa because that's what I did when I was making it.

[CF Riot]

Please don't try to sell that as a scum slip. I'm defending against the accusation of me being scum, so I'm answering from that hypothetical point of view. I was going to say that his charge was invalid because I don't know you or what kind of threat you are to scum, but

if

I was then Om

the other scum

could have told me.

[CF Riot]

Dashie did you draw any conclusions from that big beautiful VC analysis post or...

[CF Riot]

Is anyone going to tell me good job on my Bit case? Did either of you read it? Amirite or is it all just a bunch of bull malarky?

[CF Riot]

Bitmap that's cause I'm not mafia. Honestly I'm still waffley about Dashie being scum but I went full out on the Bit case to see what would happen. Didn't really help because Dashie pretty quickly committed to a Bitmap vote, didn't bother making a real case on either of us, and posted that big iioa votecount thing just now ("I think it points to Bitmap but I'm not sure" wtf is this shit?) but at the same time Bitmap is treating Dashie like he already knows he's town and tbh, my case kinda rules. So yeah, endgame is hard.

[CF Riot]

Mala do you just want to lynch Dashy? Cause whatever he's trying to say in that post makes no sense. Like we're not going to eventually lynch someone today. Please.

[CF Riot]

Yeah whatever.

[CF Riot]

I realize it. You realize. Bit doesn't seem to realize it. Dashy is trying to imply he is.

[CF Riot]

Mala did you read my case? Did it sway your opinion of Bit at all?

[CF Riot]

I don't recall there being much suspicion of the KittenBits pair before you replaced in, but there was sufficient suspicion of Om for a lynch, even if it wasn't coalescing at that point, and you were filling the shoes of a lurker who gathered several votes quite quickly. I would say that is the sort of situation where not bussing is a losing strategy. How else would you have played it if you were Om's buddy?

[CF Riot]

One vote on Bit was from GG with pretty flimsy reasoning and the other was Omscum. The lurker wagon was dying but that's not really the point, the point is your slot was under suspicion which you had to make up for.

[CF Riot]

I'm pretty okay with my Bit vote. If he's town, he sure isn't reacting like it. Dashie was just scummy enough today that I would still vote him if you talked me into it. At this point I'm ready for whatever. It's been a fun game, but we're dragging now and I don't see anyone dropping any new major points. Sooner or later you just gotta make a decision and go with it.

[CF Riot]

Hey guys, I'm here too.

366 is not how you play the game.

[CF Riot]

unvote vote: me

[CF Riot]

You should hammer. Dashy is full of crap. If he was really as indecisive as he claims to be he'd be working harder. He hasn't really grilled either of Bit or me today. Bit's just playing a suck towngame. He's uninterested in the game and has been since about halfway through D1. He feels obligated to post every now and then so he checks in on us, but he really isn't paying attention and whenever he remembers it's lylo he folds and runs off again.

[CF Riot]

Your scumplay is to try and stay townier looking than Bit. If Bit tries to put up some defense of himself then you get the chance to discredit it. It's not that hard to figure out. There's nothing wrong with 363. I'm bored and you can clearly see me reaching this point from my posts and the state of the game. But if you think its scummy, then come at me bro. I don't think you'll do it.

pedit: Bit, why are you referencing SK meta in this game?

[CF Riot]

What does it matter if he was in the game with you or not? Why not link to a game as mafia and then compare/contrast it with this game?

[CF Riot]

Who do you think is scum, RBD or me?

[CF Riot]

Why? Somewhere in the last 2 or 3 pages you said you have nothing on me.

[CF Riot]

You don't find any of his posts today scummy or faked? What about the lazy push of GreyMoney?

[CF Riot]

Ugh, why does nothing you do make sense?

[CF Riot]

There's no town reason for you to unvote. Even if you're unsure we've all but confirmed Mala town so even if someone quick hammers it shouldn't matter to you because from your pov one of us is scum. Therefore I must conclude you're hoping Dash will be more likely to vote me if it's not a hammer, at which point you can hammer ftw.

Unvote: vote: Bitmap

[CF Riot]

Why? It shouldn't matter, at all. You could just as easily reread after the hammer.

[CF Riot]

That was a stupid post. What I should've said was why would you reread at all, because again, from your pov the scum is in our pair and it shouldn't matter who you vote.

[CF Riot]

I thought Grey was town and the potential teams I was seeing at the time made UserNom a good first lynch regardless of flip.

[CF Riot]

I was voting Moneybags actually. I thought Money was more likely scum than Grey, and I waffled on it a bit but at the end of the day Grey said some stuff that gave me enough paranoia to think he may be scum so I hammered. Should I look up those posts?

[CF Riot]

This game.

Never ending.

[CF Riot]

I think it's Bit but I'm about to hammer cause fuck this game. Anything I could do to sway you Mala?

[CF Riot]

Honestly. Don't over-think it, just tell me. If you're set then you're set.

[CF Riot]

I didn't bother reading them until just now but Bit's last posts are completely inconsistent with the posts from a page or two ago. They even contradict on this page. Two pages ago he said he didn't really have anything on me and couldn't make a case for me being scum, but said he was voting me because he had even less of a case on RBD

even though

he admits past games with RBD-scum proves it's hard for him to get a clear read. Now he's saying I've dropped "so many" scumtells but at the same time thinks RBD is scum now and he parrots RBD's line about tells being different in this game due to mechanics as a way to excuse the scumread on his slot.

[CF Riot]

If you were really town in this situation you wouldn't care and you'd just admit you weren't sure and try to convince Mala you were town. You didn't do that because it seems too pushy and you were afraid calling yourself town would come across as scummy. Instead you did what scum do which is push calmly to avoid confrontation.

363 was not a bad post. I'm bored with this game and the days were ticking by with minimal input from anyone. Everyone had taken a stance except Mala so I was telling her to just sack up and pick someone. That's not scummy.

[CF Riot]

I don't give a dookie what's in your QQT.

[CF Riot]

Town you wouldn't care. You just wouldn't care which of us was scum. You would go, "I think Mala is town, this is the easiest endgame ever." Then you'd vote and your vote would sit there all day and you would try to reassure Mala and me/RBD that you were town and that makes us the right lynch. Instead you postured all day long pretending to be really thinking it over and tried not to push too hard because you didn't want to rock the boat.

[CF Riot]

Meta has nothing to do with it. It's a common sense play given the state of the game. I know it's more obvious to me since I'm the one arguing with you but really, your defenses suck so bad. You probably would've been better off just taking the Mala vote and shutting up until one of me or Dashie caved. I'm done with this game. I've pointed out why you're scum and the only reason people are still willing to vote me is because they assume I could play this town as scum and you could play this bad as town. I'll see you guys when the flips are posted, there's nothing left for me here.

[CF Riot]

Dashie if you're town you're sucking it up btw.

[CF Riot]

Half frustrated, half glad to be done with it. Voting Dashie was stupid. I was just paranoid that he

could

be because of Lyman and didn't want IAUN to yell at me for letting him "slip out of the noose." Voting Money D2 was dumb too. I gotta start sticking to my town reads.

GG scum.

[CF Riot]

Also, sorry if I pissed anyone off. This lylo was frustrating just because it dragged on so long. I normally don't get that aggressive.