Open 465 - Wot's... Uh the Deal? (Game Over! Town Win!)

[borkjerfkin]

Howdy. I've been loosely following this game. I'll catch up as soon as I can.

[borkjerfkin]

I want to comment on issue du jour (Mollie vs Adam) before I branch out at all:

1) Mollie -- why's your vote on Leviathan when you're pretty adamantly calling Adam scum? You're not even attempting to push your own wagon, and since I'm reading it as PoE due to #415, it really makes little sense considering your past few posts and the gamestate that your vote would be where it is. What gives?
2) Adam -- why are 2), 4), and 5) scum tells and not personality tells? What does 1) even mean?

[borkjerfkin]

K I'm as caught up as I'm gonna get.

Levi is town for stuff, Shrimp's probably town for being just on a totally different page than everyone else, Adam's town for the sincerity of his case but I don't like that case save that I think Mollie's vote on shrimp was bad. Otherwise I think it's confirmation bias in the sense that you're giving explanations of why scum-mollie would be AtEing all over the place -- that's circular logic.

Guille is weird. The conclusions in #462 (Adam's case being good) don't follow from the rest of that post (basically that Mollie does logical fallacies and ad-hominem, neither of which are scumtells).

Mollie's only bad points so far have been her voting patterns -- and that's honestly something I only really want to delve into if we get a scum flip. I'd sooner vote Guille over Mollie, but:

VOTE: ProHawk
#257 makes me wanna dig out that picture where the dude says "joke's on them I was only faking being retarded" because that's pretty much what you're doing here. Everyone you quoted in that post's reactions were some variation on "what the hell are you doing?" Mollie's was just a little blunter than the others -- and you didn't lambaste Mala for having essentially the same exact reaction. His jump off Mollie in #449 is awful especially with the tone of the rest of that post pointing to Mollie being scum and being dodgy about exactly what about Guille is bad to him.

@Mollie -- I'm Code. Why am I answering how you felt about him?

[borkjerfkin]

Not understanding the Hawk vote here for you Code-Bork.

Could you please comment on the days events? I will post a list in a second.

Well I already explained it so exactly what's the issue you've got?

And no, I could not. If I find something worth commenting on in a reread I'll comment on it. I'm not going to generate content in regard to the vague talking points you've given me for the sake of generating content.

[borkjerfkin]

Well considering that I haven't read most of the thread, I can't exactly give you evidence that I've read most of the thread. Stop giving me homework; it's demeaning.

And the post you quoted is awful.

[borkjerfkin]

Adam, levi or guille should be lynched this day.

I don't get the Levi scumread. All I really see is that you assert that it's plausible that prohawk and levi could be scum together (#386). You definitely had him as town earlier and I don't get the reason for 1) the change in the first place or 2) how that would hold up now that you think prohawk's looking more town in #485 (which I also don't get). Explain?

[borkjerfkin]

i liked pro hawk's vote switch to guille.

i had levi as town at the beginning for a reason that i have no recollection of right now. <- i bet someone's going to try to use that sentence against me.

levi does not seem that town to me right now. need more participation from him.

You didn't really answer me. I don't really care why you initially had him as town, I care more why you first say 1) Levi and Hawk makes a likely team and afterword 2) Prohawk looks more town now. This looks like a backhanded way to switch your read on Levi without a reason.

@Mollie: Come on. My reading all the cases D1 is neither going to help me find scum (It's hard to tell the difference between confirmation bias and fabrication without flips) nor is going to help you see that I'm town (I am essentially forced to cherry pick what to post about and that's easily manipulable as scum). Post-flip, that's a different story. Do you actually think I should do what Adam's asking me to do?

Lynch prohawk. His switch onto Guille was the opposite of good.

[borkjerfkin]

Mollie! You almost took my advice, but what I really like is how you bait Adam into tunneling you with this AtE "you think im scum but treat me like town" BS, and then accuse him of being sticky. Its quite comical indeed. Your AtE attacks and cries are like a spotlight in my face, can't see much of your content around the blinding light. Dial it back a notch or two. You are looking like a promising lynch today, but I did find one gem in all of the scummy fluff.

ALL of his posts (few I might add) are like this. What is the deal with these fence sitters this game? Guille, you are taking your sweet time which just may be how you play, but its lookin bad to me. I would much rather see you take time to compile a complete post, instead of leaving us with bits and pieces and have to wait a whole day to get part B.

Step 1) Call the person that your vote is currently on scummy, a 'promising lynch today', etc
Step 2) In the same post, switch your vote onto someone else (Guille), also with the caveat "that might just be how [Guille plays]" which weakens the argument.

Your arguments do not match your actions.

[borkjerfkin]

You're not supposed to buy it. You're supposed to die.

[borkjerfkin]

Besides this Guille thing was just another probe, amirite?

Answer this then:
1) What was the catalyst for the inquiry into Guille?
2) What info has he divined from it so far?

[borkjerfkin]

Besides this Guille thing was just another probe, amirite?

Answer this then:
1) What was the catalyst for the inquiry into Guille?
2) What info has he divined from it so far?

Those questions should be directed to him. Let us say that I just agree with his technique; I think there is a reason he has "pro" in his name.

I want to know why people have such a town hardon for prohawk because I think he's extremely scummy. Hence the question.

[borkjerfkin]

Besides this Guille thing was just another probe, amirite?

Answer this then:
1) What was the catalyst for the inquiry into Guille?
2) What info has he divined from it so far?

Those questions should be directed to him. Let us say that I just agree with his technique; I think there is a reason he has "pro" in his name.

I want to know why people have such a town hardon for prohawk because I think he's extremely scummy. Hence the question.

[borkjerfkin]

Ya he did have a good point there. I'm glad you guys are following the rules even on Skype.

indeed. i haven't signed onto skype since i've signed up for too many games on here anyway


bork - one thing in one of your posts that i didn't like much, was you said that there's no point in going back and commenting and that many things since, if you were scum, you could easily manipulate things. (i think it was something to that extent that you said)

but, if you were town, you really wouldn't worry about those things at all, or worry how you look.

I'm not worried about it, it just doesn't serve my purposes -- I'm saying that the broader the subject matter I'm being asked to comment on (Like the whole freaking game), the less possible it is to be concise without cherry picking and not giving anyone a good insight into my overall thought process.

p-edit -- No. I'm saying that it looked to me like your scumread on Levi was contingent on Prohawk being scum.

[borkjerfkin]

don't "com on mollie" me mr. borkybork I happen to think you are a pretty good town player certainly better than the limp responses you have been giving. hawk boy's vote switch to guille did look good cos he was actually following through with what he said about scum tending to hide and try to blend in and he was trying to draw guille out. he was being very consistent with that vote switch. I think he knows that I am town but will go with lynching a player who other players clearly have a problem with rather than have a no-lynch.

I'm curious what you think the town response for Guille would be at this point. ProHawk knows you're town? Seriously?

@prohawk -- Who should I be voting? Mollie or Guille?

@Adam -- You basically went "read the whole thread and comment on [7 vague talking points]". No direction. I don't consider that pro-town. I'm pretty much done with that point.

[borkjerfkin]

@Prohawk -- what do you think of Guille's case on Mollie, then?

[borkjerfkin]

You need to vote whomever you are working on getting a real read from.

This is where we are failing to communicate, because that seems backward to me. I'm having trouble figuring out why that if you think you had scum nailed in Mollie that you'd give up on that and switch. The wagon's even starting to fall apart.

[borkjerfkin]

@Mantis -- I still don't understand the scum read on Levi.

[borkjerfkin]

That's a huge generalization anyway. It's an acceptable meta tell if someone tends to post way more or less as scum but it doesn't work as an across the board tell.

Why's not reading the thread scummy?

[borkjerfkin]

either way, I was thinking levi or guille. but thinking on it now, these 2 have been low posters and i doubt that both of the low posters are scum. that's way to easy to look at it that way. so i'd like to take back this comment.

Meaning what? What do you think about Guille and Levi?

[borkjerfkin]

Here's what I've gotten with my interactions with everyone so far:


Mollie: Eh. Null. Her interactions with people look good (save maybe prohawk or adam) but I don't agree with most of her talking points. She's one I'll reread.
Adam: Very adamantly believes that my aversion to reading the entire thread / commenting on every major occurrence is scummy (it's not; focused posting is good posting). He's town.
Levi: No interactions but he's town.
Shrimp: weak town read mostly because he hasn't really been around much since #471. I'll reread him.
Prohawk: Legitimately offended that I called him names early on -- that's a towntell; scum knows that what they do is disingenuous and aren't offended by it. I may have actually been barking up the wrong tree with him considering what he said in #538. -- it paints a clearer picture of what he did wrt the switch from Mollie to Guille. I'm worried about where he'll go with Guille once Guille does post but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. Leaning town.
Mantis. Don't like her explanation about Levi, and really has been tiptoeing around my questions in general. Leaning scum.
Guille -- don't like the case on Mollie (see #471 as to why I think this). Weak scum.
Mala: null. Need to iso her as she's not talking and no one is talking to or about her. She's the one I know the least about right now, along with Mollie and Shrimp.

VOTE: Mantis
I think equating activity level to towniness is a cop out.

[borkjerfkin]

Mollie I think my problem with you is that you're doing some really questionable things, but being so candid about them that you're hoping to try to get towncred for them.

[borkjerfkin]

did you read the thread yet?

I'm reading and contributing simultaneously.

Basically when you say that you're seeing the writing on the wall when it comes to your lynch and you're cool with that but you're tanking for the team, if you're so self-aware as to know this is anti-town, why aren't you self-aware enough just not to do it?

[borkjerfkin]

You're towing the line here.

You're saying in #577 (I'm paraphrasing) that [you don't think both scum would be huge lurksacks].
In addition, you're saying that they're [both scummy but that they're probably not on a team.] (#554)

I don't have a huge problem with either of those statements on their own, even if they're circumstantial and therefore not necessarily true (it's feasible that both scum would have a passive playstyle or have issues that would cause them to only make minimal activity requirements). But fine.

Finally, you think that Levi's looking bad because he's not being active enough (#499, #553, and I acknowledge that this isn't the only reason that you're giving in #553.) But I can't tell what you're trying to do here. You say they're both scummy but they're not on a team, somewhat because Levi is being inactive, but lurking isn't necessarily a scumtell because you don't think both scum are lurking? Does anyone else see the problem here? Why do you get to use that against Levi? You SHOULD want to lynch either of them if you think they're both scummy. I never asked you if you thought they were a team -- that shouldn't MATTER to you on day 1. In fact, if we lynched one and they flipped scum, I would expect a certain behavior out of you consistent with that PoV tomorrow.

Furthermore, your attack on Guille in #484 seems to me like you're saying Guille is scum because he's pushing a case for a Mollie lynch. That's it. You're not commenting on the validity of the case or any opportunism with regard to the wagon hop, just the fact that he's making "long posts with links". How does that even remotely tell alignment?

[borkjerfkin]

people can seem scummy and still be town, borkjerfkin.

And? Town realizes that they're not going to be right all the time. This is the sort of disclaimer scum gives.

#580 doesn't explain anything. I'll ask plainly: Why's this

particular case

Guille is making on Mollie indicative of scum making a case on town? What does talking about "grooming" have to do with it?

[borkjerfkin]

Bork, logical fallacies and ad-hominem, are in fact scumtells

No.

or at the very least bad town play as they tend to reach the wrong conclusion.

Yes.

About the ad-hominem, I've been in this site long enough to know that I cannot use that as an argument for scummyness. I mention it in the previous post not as a way to say that Mollie is scum, but rather that Mollie's arguments are not good.

This is pretty waffly, considering you're voting her. If she's scum, her arguments are being put forth to further a scum agenda, yeah? I don't see how you're showing that you believe that.

[borkjerfkin]

I've been looking at Mala since I've not been able to get a feel for her based on anything that's happened in the past two days.

#14 is a good opening and is inherently pro-town.
#53 is not where I'd have gone with that reaction test. Shrimp doesn't look like he's defending Levi there -- it really looks to me like he honestly believed Mala was kidding. That assertion by Shrimp doesn't really work for a "defense", anyway, and it's not a chainsaw for Levi because he's not really "attacking" Mala there. It's only slightly suspicious to me because there was already a bandwagon forming on Shrimp at the time, but otherwise I'd just be saying that she'd gone the wrong direction with it.

#93: Her jump off of Shrimp doesn't make #53 seem as scum motivated as I'd initially suspected since if she were, she'd be trying to secure a spot on that wagon, and nobody else had jumped off by #93.

#166 -- Reads are sensible at this point in the game.

#243 is reasonable re: ProHawk's #242.

#262 evokes a question: @Mala -- do you actually have a town read on Guille? I'm not really getting a feel for how you feel about him other than you didn't want to quicklynch him.

#313: Mixed feelings here. on one hand, if Mala's town this is a sensible vote to make as she's on a different page than her accuser. On the other hand, if she is scum she's trying to deflect attention away from the fact that she's giving a defense on Guille without coming out and saying she has a town read on Guille. Since there's two plausible explanations here, this doesn't tell me much on its own.

Overall her posts are logical and she did legitimate scumhunting toward the beginning of the game. I'm only worried about:
1) Her interactions with Guille.
2) Her dropoff in scumhunting since around the ~300 post range. She was active elsewhere recently, just not here. Not a huge sample size so not going to harp on that point.
3) Slight lack of transparency.

Overall: just left of center on the town side.

[borkjerfkin]

I believe Mantis and Mollie know of each others alignment, and are working together.

Either you're implying that they're both scum or you're implying that they're cheating. If it's the former, say so. If it's not, well, that's incredibly disrespectful without some serious proof, and is something you'd take up with the moderator and not post in thread*. Which is it?

*Don't take this to mean that I am lending credence to that theory -- I'm not.

p-edit -- what guille said.

[borkjerfkin]

@Mollie: Come on. My reading all the cases D1 is neither going to help me find scum (It's hard to tell the difference between confirmation bias and fabrication without flips) nor is going to help you see that I'm town (I am essentially forced to cherry pick what to post about and that's easily manipulable as scum).

Post-flip, that's a different story.

Can you please explain the bolded?

Basically that it's easier to gain info from the early parts of the thread after some flips, because you can:

1) See who scum was being weird with (awkward buddying/distancing or ignoring entirely).
2) See reactions to wagons on now confirmed alignments.
3) Look at the NK's posts and see why they might've been the target.

I can't do any of that on D1.

[Majiffy]

That makes this a null tell then -- if he missed having N0 talk once, why couldn't he have missed it twice, especially if you never mentioned it to him post-game or anything (I'm guessing you didn't)?

I still think he's town.

Vote Count

Pirate Mollie (L-3): Shrimp85, Guile
Mantisdreamz(L-4): borkjerfkin
borkjerfkin (L-4): Adam-12
Leviathan (L-4): Pirate Mollie
Malakittens (L-4): ProHawk

Not Voting: leviathan93, Mantisdreamz, Malakittens

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline is Monday, December 17, 2012 at 12:40 PM EST

[borkjerfkin]

[Mala votes Levi] Reason: inconsistent reads. Called me town in this post.
Yet the way I'm reading the end of this posthe has me clearly labeled in a scum mindset.

What post are you trying to link here?

[borkjerfkin]

Anyway...Mantis needs some more pressure, and I've not seen anything that's really convincing me to ditch my town read on Levi -- I especially don't see him calling Mala scum. This actually makes me more suspicious of Mala cause it's pretty damn obvious what Levi thinks about Mala.

[borkjerfkin]

1) I think she's scum
2) She has 1 vote

[borkjerfkin]

prod dodge. I'll catch up tomorrow.

[borkjerfkin]

Prohawk's responses to Thor getting up in his shit are town (#914, #927, #997, #1008) -- I would think scum would more try to get into it with the point by point rebuttals instead of holding himself above it.

ProHawk #926 is a bad post and shows a lack of big picture thought, but I fail to see how it's scum motivated to say what he said there. #1045 too -- I don't see how scum makes the "you or me" gambit after being so bold and getting resistance, unless you guys are fucking bussing for supercred and I really don't think you are.

As far as Thor, Everything through #888 is pretty null for Thor. #909 is a good response to #896. #915 is a bit scummy -- it's an ineffectual argument as it's not gonna stop a lynch, and it's not going to truly cause an ardent believer in Thorscum to even consider that question until Thor flips town; I feel like Thortown should KNOW that and not try to work that AtE angle.

I started skimming after that point, but #987 did stick out -- Thor:

The truth is there actually is info to get if I flip town, but I don't think you'd like those conclusions.

So is prohawk scum knowing you're flipping town and just really good at WIFOM here since he's under fire immediately after that or are you just barking up the wrong tree? This only gets cred if he's bussing or if he's town really convinced you're scum. Something is wrong here.

anyway:

Thor's mildly scummy here but I never had a great read on the slot pre-Thor.
Prohawk's towntelling overall imo. Not voting him.

Why's Mantis town, everyone who thinks she is? I haven't seen decent reasoning for her reads, just a lot of inquisitive nudges on people without a whole lot of conclusions. Her scumlist in 1005 reads like connections mean that scum would never buddy or bus, which just really looks like someone who's fabricating anti-connections by looking to see who's had any sort of reaction with anybody and ruling those teams out. It's also looking like she's going out of her way not to look like she's OMGUSing me (OMGUS isn't a scumtell but paranoia regarding it is scummy) in 1072.

Other hot seats: I haven't looked at anything either Mala or Levi has posted in the past two days. I'm probably not voting for Levi no matter what he said.

This game is moving too fast for some of the people with more limited availability to keep up with and still post relevant content, imo.

[borkjerfkin]

As it is, he just expects us to trust him but he hasn't done anything to earn that trust.

this is a towntell if anything.

[borkjerfkin]

@Bork - literally no one else has expressed scum feelings towards Mantis. You either need to start screaming and present a succinct and compelling case, or move to your #2.

Yeah.

I seriously have no idea where she's coming out on the whole Thor/Mollie situation. She's referred multiple times that we should lynch Mollie/Thor just so people will stop harping about how anti town Mollie was being ( #833 / #1052), but is still listed as a scum read (#1005), and to top that off, has been avoiding that wagon like the plague for quite some time now. Doesn't make sense.

Her read on Levi is all over the place. I think her Levi flip from town to scum was absolutely awkward as hell (I referred to this in an earlier post). I think she was forced to switch him back to a townier read because I called her out on this (or maybe because there was no support for his lynch, but you can see this happening in #657 and onward -- he very quickly becomes one of her towniest reads again.

Her read on Shrimp is similarly dissonant -- see below

unsure
shrimp - his posts are reactionary. had him as town initially, but the read is starting to fade, partially because he hasn't been around much lately.

How do you get from here to a vote? Before that, you were:
1) Voting mala
2) Talking about possible partnerships between her and prohawk (#1029)
3) Not even remotely expressing a real scum read on shrimp (you call him town but say that read is dwindling partially due to inactivity -- how does that even work? and if it's just partially that, what else is it?

Why switch wagons here? Where did your read on Mala go?

I know that scum buddy and bus. but it was a sort of rough thing to go off of at the moment. i'm not as certain that scum would bus on day 1 (where there is only 2 of them), which is what made me make those loose conclusions.

This seems extremely naive to the point that I don't think you think this. Scum (even 2 man scum teams) balls deep bus in probably about half the games I'm in.

She's, for the most part, averse to even talking about me despite that "maybe I should be lynched" (#1072). I don't see how that statement's town motivated if she's not going to try to make any progress toward that goal.

I'm not against changing reads (far from it), but I just see so much disconnect between her words and her voting patterns here that I don't think these reads are genuine,

re: Thor wagon: Thor is actually seeming town to me now. This is mostly meta wrt to how he's handling suspicion of him, and based on previous personal experience where he did nothing but try to discredit me when I tunneled on Thorscum (and it pretty much worked). Thor's being so much more breadth-first, patient, and less of a jackass here concerning ProHawk & Adam tunneling on him that it gives me pause.
re: Mala wagon: I can be talked into this.
re: Shrimp wagon. prohawk is spot on with Shrimp townslipping. I'm not voting shrimp like ever.

[borkjerfkin]

VOTE: shrimpI really want to know if shrimp is scum or town or not. His recent play is lacking and bugs me a lot. yes he could be busy, but still. he seemed to be doing ok (minus i feel messing up in the beginnning).

His recent play is non-existent. Either he's actively lurking (hint: no) or he's been busy or he's siteflaked. Explain how either of the last two consititutes scummy behavior.

Seriously we're not lynching shrimp.

[Majiffy]

Help you out with what?

Vote Count
Thor665 (L-3): Shrimp85, Adam-12
Mantisdreamz (L-4): borkjerfkin
ProHawk (L-4): Malakittens
Malakittens (L-3): Thor665, ProHawk
Shrimp85 (L-3): Mantisdreamz, Leviathan93

Not Voting: Guile

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline is Monday, December 17, 2012 at 12:40 PM EST

[borkjerfkin]

I'm curious why you phrased it as "Get mala to L-1" rather than "lynch mala".

[borkjerfkin]

VOTE: Mala

[borkjerfkin]

VOTE: Mantis

Look at 1270 compared to 1348. I think I posted once between those two posts and Mantis flip flopped on me in that time.

[borkjerfkin]

VOTE: Mantis

Look at 1270 compared to 1348. I think I posted once between those two posts and Mantis flip flopped on me in that time.

that is the result of me flip flopping (as i've said already before)

i went from thinking shrimp & you to maybe shrimp & mala. you'll note that's where i said 'i'd lynch malakittens.' in post 1349.

to be honest, i'm really not used to the length of these days. i'm used to 24 hour days, and even with those you tend to flip flop a little. multiple that by 20 and there's going to be a lot of back and forth.


i can say with confidence that i definitely don't want to lynch Adam or Levi, and probably Pro-Hawk.

i'm just reading over some ISO's right now...

I get flip-flopping; I'm not calling you scummy for flip-flopping; I'm calling you scummy for flip-flopping without any stimulus -- I didn't do anything during that time that should have changed your opinion on me, nor did it look like you were examining anything except my case on you, which you said you found suspicious in 1270. Then all the sudden I look town for it in 1348. I'm finding it hard to believe you ever legitimately thought that given your other behavior before and after that post. It does serve as a vehicle to buddy thor, though.

Your #1411 is pretty much all IIoA -- all you do is list things I did. I acknowledge I did those things. You offer no explanation of the scum motivation that you apparently found in those actions.

also, I do want to give her the benefit of the doubt, and allow her to work on scum hunting after a few flips. (like she said)

I know you're parroting someone else here, I just can't remember who also said we should not lynch Mala for this reason. I think it was Mollie.

I don't plan on changing my mind from these past few posts.

When does town "plan" on changing his or her mind? It should just either happen or not happen, and this reads like a disclaimer that you're locking your vote in and don't plan to change it regardless of what happens.

only recently because the compromise to the compromise. And that's thanks to bork-scum.

Seriously? that's 1) a pretty sudden emphatic endorsement that you think I'm scum with the "bork-scum" thing, which doesn't fit the rest of your "I think he's the best guy to go" stuff you're doing in 1411 and 2) A blatant misrep considering that I've been LEADING your wagon the entire time.

[borkjerfkin]

UNVOTE:

Claim: not tracker.
^
everyone needs to do this or CC in their next post.

@Guille: I'm probably going to vote Mala if this claim is legit. #55 was a huge ass towntell and I've pretty much been ignoring Levi because of it.

[borkjerfkin]

Are you the tracker or not?

[borkjerfkin]

(I'm guessing no due to the lack of a vote but you're being weird)

[borkjerfkin]

We probably should table Mantis today, then, in my opinion.

VOTE: Mala

[borkjerfkin]

LOL SCUM WON NO THEY DIDN'T LOL JUST KIDDING YES THEY DID NOPE

hey majiffy who am i?

[borkjerfkin]

Mala hoodwinked both Adam and me -- we thought she was watcher and that's why he voted me. I was hoping we could get a "we ran out of time" hammer on her -- i didn't see the wheels turning toward my lynch till it was too late.

She's your MVP here I'd say.

[borkjerfkin]

And my post before this was referencing greygnarl trolling the fuck out of me at the end of open 454 to make me think that town lost, then won, then lost again.

[borkjerfkin]

there was no day talk, Adam and I just independently came to the same conclusion.

She was clumsily crumming it everywhere, but she was one step ahead of us.

[borkjerfkin]

Hey I wouldn't be me if I didn't lose at least 80% of my games

[borkjerfkin]

Well my thoughts:

1) I hate replacements as scum! They ALWAYS screw up my game because they always see the game in a way that is different than the people that have been playing it the whole time.
2) I accept Mollie's apology post.
3) D1 was absolute torture.

Not much else to say really.

Mala's crumbs were posting her "Watchlist" and never mentioning it again. In her second big summary post, she said "I am watching Hawk".

Not only this, but she kept talking to Majiffy about "watching" certain shows. A lot of times crumbs show up in posts that are otherwise irrelevant.

[borkjerfkin]

Hold on, wasn't it shrimp accusing you of cheating, not Adam? I don't really remember but I didn't think it was Adam