Open 465 - Wot's... Uh the Deal? (Game Over! Town Win!)

ProHawk · Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:46 pm

OMGUS - Bork is the main proponent of your lynch. From you: "Lets get him!"

Ready... Bork Votes Mala and you post this.

In post 1348, Mantisdreamz wrote:i kind of agree with him that bork looks townish, to be honest.

i don't like bork's case against me, but his posts have all seemed pretty ok.

Then he votes you again, and we get to your retaliatory vote because you don't like his case on you.

In post 1191, borkjerfkin wrote:I'm not against changing reads (far from it), but I just see so much disconnect between her words and her voting patterns here that I don't think these reads are genuine,

^This 100% sums up what I see in your posts.

Oh, and a terrible bandwagon vote from Mala noted.

ProHawk · Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:09 pm

Smug? Yes. Does that surprise you? I didn't answer you because you already know the answer. Mala is a 3 for me, but the fact that I couldn't get any traction on her wagon despite her incessant insistence that everyone wanted to lynch her (this was one of her I am town arguments) makes me worried. Yes, that would logically mean that the others you mentioned, Adam, Guille, Bork, Angel, and Levi are all <= 3.

If you want my help on lynching anyone else other than you, you need to vote for Mala, or Thor.

ProHawk · Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:14 pm

Adam... you know you want in on this wagon. There is cog-dis written all over Mantis' posts.

ProHawk · Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:39 am

I hate all of you that are on L-4 wagons right now. We obviously aren't going to lynch anyone today, so... start looking at those players who are stirring the pot for a no-lynch.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Mala

Claim: Not Tracker.

ProHawk · Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:43 am

Mantis, you don't say I am ready to lynch someone while waffling on them, its cog-dis (ADAM!)

ProHawk · Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:55 am

I am going to just assume that you don't care if we don't lynch anyone Adam?

ProHawk · Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:06 am

Well, while we are waiting, why is Bork>Mala?

And yes, I would love a Mollie/Thor lynch, but I think you and I are the only ones that would go for it.

Vote Count
Thor665 (L-4): Adam-12
Malakittens (L-2): Thor665, Borkjerfkin, ProHawk
Borkjerfkin (L-3): Mantisdreamz, Malakittens
Mantis (L-4): Leviathan93
Mantis (L-4): ArcAngel9
Leviathan93 (L-4): Guile

Not Voting: -

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline is Monday, December 17, 2012 at 12:40 PM EST

ProHawk · Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:09 am

I just don't see scum Bork coming in as a replacement to attack me that hard, doesn't make any sense for scum to call that much negative attention to themselves IMO.

ProHawk · Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:14 am

I love how you put yourself in that almost L-1 list Mala when I couldn't get

any

traction on your lynch. You didn't even get close to being lynched. Scum.

Mantis, Mala, and Guille absolutely won't vote for him. That leaves 6 of us. I doubt Angel shows up before the deadline as she is on the other side of the world, and being that Levi hasn't been the most frequent poster, I doubt he shows up in time either.

ProHawk · Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:16 am

And Mala, you are more than welcome to say 'I told you so', I don't have any ego issues with being wrong, but chances are pretty high it won't happen.

ProHawk · Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:33 am

Second observation I find interesting but is too soon to act on... There has been a lot of resistance from Adam to vote or even pressure Mala, moreso than I have felt from any of my other interactions with Adam thus-far. This is important to keep in mind as we move on and start to see flips.

ProHawk · Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:34 am

Adam, why Bork over Mala?

ProHawk · Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:42 am

It has nothing to do with her personal meta as much as it has to do with her using meta as a self-defense.

It has to do with her initial start being extremely pro-town and subsequently allowing it to deteriorate.

It has to do with her numerous plays of trying to gain town-points.

It has to do with her OTT reaction to being pressured.

What do you have on Bork?

ProHawk · Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:53 am

In post 1518, Adam-12 wrote:
In post 1514, ProHawk wrote:Adam, why Bork over Mala?

I'd rather not go into too much detail now but they are both scum reads for me and I like my vote where it is.

Does anyone else not see scum written all over this post ^?

They are both scum reads for you, yet you are willing to split the vote? This is looking much more like a Mala/Adam scum team the closer it gets to the deadline.

ProHawk · Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:58 am

Mantis, do you not see that Adam is protecting Mala? I think I see what Thor meant by his vote-count analysis...

In post 1061, Thor665 wrote:Well - if I am scum and my partner(s) think I'm useful - in which case there should be someone calling me
not
scum and pushing on another wagon. Where is the alternate wagon of any note? None? Who is calling me town? No one? Riiiight.

This is looking spot on with a twist.

ProHawk · Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:00 am

And Mantis, RE: Bork, if he was scum, why did he believe your claim and hop off your wagon? Get over here to Mala.

ProHawk · Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:03 am

Can't tell for sure. Town flips are a lot less useful in that regard than scum flips. But you need to flip Mala.

Vote Count
Malakittens (L-2): Thor665, Borkjerfkin, ProHawk
Borkjerfkin (L-2): Mantisdreamz, Malakittens, Adam-12
Mantis (L-4): Leviathan93
Mantis (L-4): ArcAngel9
Leviathan93 (L-4): Guile

Not Voting: -

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline is Monday, December 17, 2012 at 12:40 PM EST

ProHawk · Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:05 am

Bork? Likelihood of him flipping scum <= you flipping scum.

ProHawk · Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:10 am

Why's that? Cause you are "following your town meta"?

ProHawk · Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:10 am

Your vote is a bandwagon vote, you don't even have anything on him.

ProHawk · Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:21 am

Right about now, I would lynch Adam, but there isn't any time for that atm, its either you or Bork and neither of you are at L-1 sadly. Shrimp is literally town. Levi I am giving a pass today because its too hard to tell the difference between newb and scum. I would be more than good with lynching him D2.

Like I said, you are not scum for what you have done in past games in comparison to this one, you are scum for using it as a defense.

Would someone lynch Mala-scum already?

ProHawk · Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:22 am

Policy-Lynching Levi D2 only applies if we manage to lynch someone today.

ProHawk · Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:25 am

Things Mala has done that Bork hasn't:

Posted crap-fluff.
OTT anger posts.
Used meta as a defense.
Made posts to gain town-points.

ProHawk · Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:41 am

Any scum would jump off the opportunity of not wasting a night kill to off a power role? He was the first one off, not the second or third or last.

ProHawk · Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:58 am

Ok Mantis, I looked at Bork's ISO. Still don't see more scum here over Mala's posts. His rationale for voting me was the exact same for voting you. He also had Mala as a suspect way before this time. Its clear that his scum-hunting consists of finding players that say one thing and vote another. That is what he was arguing on his vote for me and you. I have personal experience with scum not believing power claims while subsequently telling anyone not to counter-claim for town-points. Doesn't seem like Bork is scum to me. How about you go look at Mala's ISO and get back to me?

So vote for someone worthwhile Guille. If you think Bork is scum for doing it then vote him. If you don't vote Mala. If you want a no-lynch stay right where you are.

ProHawk · Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:13 am

In a game of 9, I disagree. A counter-claim to lynch scum is infinitely more beneficial. If you wait till D2, you suffer a mis-lynch and a night-kill. Whereas a counter claim will get you a verified scum-lynch while suffering the counter-claimed loss. Not to mention, the power roles are even less useful as they have to guess correctly to get any useful information.

Vote Count
Malakittens (L-2): Thor665, Borkjerfkin, ProHawk
Borkjerfkin (L-1): Mantisdreamz, Malakittens, Adam-12, Guile
Mantis (L-4): Leviathan93
Mantis (L-4): ArcAngel9

Not Voting: -

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline is Monday, December 17, 2012 at 12:40 PM EST

ProHawk · Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:14 am

Bork - @L-1
Mala - @L-2

Last I checked...

ProHawk · Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:26 am

Mantis is substantially correct? Lets see the case breakdown:

Stayed away from voting Mollie/Thor
Mantis doesn't like Borks case on her.
Bork points out where people change their minds.
He looks worse than most.
He didn't suspect Mollie like everyone else.
Calls scum-tells personality tells?
Asked me who to vote for.
Took advantage of poor-play by mantis.

Adam, what exactly is she substantively right on? What here looks like scum? The only way I see it is if Thor flipped scum. I also disagree with the taking advantage part because Levi would be much more opportunistic to take advantage of (Mala).

ProHawk · Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:27 am

Angel, your two choices today (if you care to have a lynch) are Mala or Bork.

ProHawk · Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:31 am

Hammer now Levi, we don't know when Majiffy will come in to shut us down. Day should have ended a while ago if we were adhering to the official time-schedule.

Angel, because the day is over today and you need 5 votes to lynch.

ProHawk · Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:41 am

Angel, it was either be lynched or claim your role, which would you have done? Mantis is a girl by the way. The fact that no one else claimed tracker - she is confirmed town and yes, will most likely die tonight.

ProHawk · Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:46 am

Thats alright Mantis, you should probably post your final thoughts before the twilight is over.

ProHawk · Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:51 am

Angel, you don't get it. There was not enough time. Reasoning out scummyness happens at the beginning of the game-day, not at the end.

ProHawk · Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:52 am

Levi, do you even read what you post? Good-heavens man you will be finally glad if bork turns out to be town?

ProHawk · Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:56 am

But it did stop the lynch Angel...

You won't have the luxury Levi.

ProHawk · Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:12 am

How about we start by you explaining why you split the vote with two of your scum-reads on the chopping block?

ProHawk · Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:18 am

No Angel, it was for Adam

ProHawk · Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:57 am

Thor, would you get in here and give this thread some needed experience?

ProHawk · Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:50 pm

In post 1518, Adam-12 wrote:
In post 1514, ProHawk wrote:Adam, why Bork over Mala?

I'd rather not go into too much detail now but they are both scum reads for me and I like my vote where it is.

In post 1510, Adam-12 wrote:If anyone wants to vote Mollie-Thor please let me know.

Vote Bork

Not quite as bad as that ^

Especially when Bork flips town.

ProHawk · Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:56 pm

Guaranteed? It sounded more like whenever he got on it was over to me.

Look at Borks posts Adam and tell me he isn't town.

ProHawk · Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:57 pm

When Mala flips scum, this game is in the bag.

ProHawk · Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:57 pm

In post 1622, Adam-12 wrote:Well, Hawk rushed the hammer without allowing Bork time to claim. Its bad on its own merits.

I rushed the hammer? Who freaking waited until the last possible second to lynch? If the day would have ended when it was supposed to we would have had zilch. Look at Maj's last vote count before he left, which was after he said he was going to be a little late. It still had the deadline at 12:40. Notice he didn't even give us a solid deadline, just said when he gets back on.

What Mala wagon? I asked for his help to test my theory and he obliged, unlike anyone else.

Mala, I want to see a Levi lynch D2, but still consider you and Adam top scum priority.

ProHawk · Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:08 pm

In post 1637, Mantisdreamz wrote:Prohawk, Adam explained his reasoning for splitting the votes. that was what you were suspicious of him for, right?

No, I find his excuse very probable, especially considering that we saw the deadlines in a different light. I thought it was going to be anytime after 12:40 while he thought it definitely was not going to end before 7PM.

What I am suspicious of him for is completely defending Mala without saying that he thinks she is town. He says he would have voted for her lynch, but I honestly think he is bussing - faking it for if/when she flips scum and he can say - "look, I thought she was scum, I even

said

I was going to vote her." He wouldn't even vote her for pressure when I asked for it, but kept his measly little vote on Thor the whole time.

Levi, I would almost think you are excited to be lynched tomorrow. I haven't seen you post this much this whole game.

ProHawk · Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:09 pm

Also, Thor dropping off the face of the map this last day is crap. I need to go check and see if he was posting elsewhere and just plain ignoring the thread or not.

ProHawk · Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:17 pm

You will note that I didn't want to waste bork, I wanted to lynch scum, but a serving of scum wasn't up on the table today. Lynching a scum D1 would buy you more time, but a mis-lynch only makes it more risky to keep you around considering you may hold a scum-card.

ProHawk · Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:34 pm

Even better for your next crusade amirite Adam?

ProHawk · Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:03 pm

Puzzle Pirates!! I used to love that game...

ProHawk · Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:09 pm

In post 1682, Malakittens wrote:Levi, stop please. All you are doing is posting fluff.

UMG, why hasn't Pro called him out for this. -notenotenote-

Bitter much? Levi is my #1 for game-day-tomorrow.

@Mantis - No need to apologize, you should suspect me as much as the next guy/girl (minus Shrimp/Angel)

ProHawk · Thu Dec 20, 2012 2:23 pm

Alright, I will be the first to admit that I was wrong about Bork. I apologize to those of you who I started getting crass with, you know who you are.

I completely agree with your analysis Adam and you are definitely on the right track. My interactions with him looked scummy, whether he flipped town (which you pointed out earlier) or whether he flipped scum (which point you made just now) I just want you to consider one thing. I realize that this coming from me isn't going to give it much weight, but what are the odds that scum jump right in to interact/buddy up with their scum partner? Where is the smart play in that? When they flip, it makes the other

look

bad - exactly how you pointed out. Take a look at the vote counts as the day went on, if I was scum, why was bork following me around first to Mala, then to Mantis, then me following him back to Mala? Its like throwing all of your eggs into one basket.

I want to add this bit of information. As the day rolled close to the end, we had two wagons, Mala and Bork. Mala's wagon was ahead most of the day until Adam jumped in to vote for Bork. For me, this rules out the following players who jumped on to turn the tide in favor of a Bork-scum lynch:

Adam
Guille
Levi

Bussing isn't an impossibility, but its such a long-shot not smart move when Mala could have easily gone down with more scum-aid. Therefore, scum will most likely reside in this list:

Thor
ProHawk
Angel

This is the order in which I believe we should lynch, however feel free to determine the order yourselves. Mollie was scummy throughout day 1 and Thor was completely absent (although he was pretty much absent site-wide from what I saw) at the end.

VOTE: Thor

I know I am not scum, and would rather see Thor go first.
I still stick by my town-slip from Shrimp/Angel's slot so I believe she should go last.

ProHawk · Thu Dec 20, 2012 2:24 pm

And yes Levi, I take back what I said before the day ended regarding your lynch today. Nice play.

ProHawk · Thu Dec 20, 2012 2:45 pm

Angel, Mantis is our tracker and conf-townie. If anyone comes out to say that they are now counterclaiming, they are lying as they had that chance when she claimed.

ProHawk · Thu Dec 20, 2012 7:50 pm

In post 1727, Thor665 wrote:Okay, so new plan.

Any tracker needs to counterclaim *today* and also right now.
Otherwise they are scum if they claim at any other time.
That gives us a confirmed town in Mantis - huzzah.

She can keep looking for the Watcher, because functionally every person she investigates she'll learn to help us to root out any fake Watcher claims later.

Vote: Guille

I tend to expect scum to have bussed or fled the wagon - Guille looks like a busser due to location.
I could do Arc too for ducking the wagon. ::shrug::
I think Levi is probably town, because I don't think both scum buddied me.

So you are taking the bussing route. That would leave Levi, Adam, and Guille.

Adam voted to tie up Mala-town and Bork-scum.
Guille voted to place Bork-scum at L-1.
Levi hammer voted Bork-scum.

I pretty much defended Bork to the end, calling for people to lynch Mala-town. Scum had me practically doing all of the dirty work for them.
So...
Why would the remaining scum, when Mala was the lead wagon, give momentum to the Bork-Wagon (Adam)?
Or
Why would the scum put the Bork-Scum wagon in the lead when he could have easily put Mala-town in the lead (Guille)?
Or
Why would scum hammer Bork-scum when he could have voted Mala-town to tie up both wagons and potentially stall the game into a no-lynch (Levi)?

To gain town-cred you say? I am seeing way too much risk here without enough reward. At least to me until Guille voted, Bork did not seem like he was going down in a ball of flames. While I agree that your choice (Guille) is the most likely candidate out of the three, I fully believe that scum will be found in the non-bussing category, ala you, me, and Angel.

Your predecessor was acting like scum before she replaced out most likely because your slot is scum. You are obviously a well seasoned mafia-man which is why you wiggled out of the lynch D1, but I feel like the evidence against you is overwhelming in this case.

ProHawk · Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:59 am

^This.

You are missing the big picture by taking this count out of context. You missed the part where you vote-parked and wouldn't move because you were V/LA, and how Bork was vote hopping from Mala, to Mantis, then back to Mala independent of you. I don't see that as living in trembling fear of Mala or as buddying with you.

ProHawk · Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:04 am

In post 1757, Thor665 wrote:They could have put Mala-town into a tie situation, not into the lead. Also, considering the flow of votes at that point a Mala vote would not have been looked at kindly, also it was the obvious last chance to bus with any town cred to really be had.

Thor, you are just wrong on this. Before Guille voted, Mala was at L-2, and Bork was at L-2. Hence, if Guille were scum, he could have voted Mala and put her at L-1 and she would have been the leading wagon. Don't forget that Adam had already mentioned that both Bork and Mala were scum reads for him, so placing Mala at L-1 would have been way more advantageous than voting for his scum-buddy because it would have made it another vote more difficult to lynch Bork. The way things went down were actually worse-case-scenario for scum because it literally setup scum in a trap.

ProHawk · Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:34 am

It is taking a lot of restraint to not join the rail on Angel initiative.... so many face-palm moments. I love #1773 - Read M0ar

ProHawk · Fri Dec 21, 2012 6:43 pm

I don't have much to explore, I am ready to call it a day.

ProHawk · Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:33 pm

Does anyone else not see how Thor is stalling trying to talk his way out of a lynch again?

If he was town, he should honestly understand that his lynch would only help us get closer to finding the last wolf and he should be helping us find the last wolf, not pulling a self-defense at L-1. I haven't gotten a town-vibe from Mollie, and never liked Thor's entrance. Adam has expressed the intent to hammer, yet Thor doesn't claim his role. He is about to be lynched but won't do anything except fight to the bitter end. Sounds like a survivalist-attitude to me.

ProHawk · Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:08 pm

You have had a case on you since the moment you replaced in and have been fighting it. I wouldn't say you embracing it now is easily embracing it.

ProHawk · Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:09 pm

You should claim - now and slap yourself for waiting.

ProHawk · Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:15 pm

So what? Town and scum can do the same exact things. Its all WIFOM, the majority of this game is. Just because town can do them, doesn't mean that scum cant. And no, you just seem like you are trying to survive too-hard to be town, thats all I am saying. If I could hammer you I would.

ProHawk · Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:22 pm

Congratulations God of Thunder.

ProHawk · Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:26 pm

I think your entrance into the day saying that "THE LAST SCUM IS BASICALLY SCREWED" with some plan that you screwed up because you weren't reading properly was staged.

He is impossible to read, too many newbie mistakes that look like scum, would love to lynch him in the event that you are town, but in reality, I am the second most suspect regarding how D1 ended.

ProHawk · Sun Dec 23, 2012 7:04 am

Thor, would you have voted for Bork had you been around?

ProHawk · Sun Dec 23, 2012 7:06 am

You are actually also kinda convincing me on the Adam-scum slot. He said he would be willing to hammer you, but seems like he is just a little too scared to do it, probably hoping someone else will. That combined with his choice of Bork over Mala made absolutely zero sense to me.

ProHawk · Sun Dec 23, 2012 8:37 am

Yes, he listed both Mala and Bork as scum-reads. Mala-wagon was in the lead at the time, yet he voted Bork. I just couldn't wrap my head around why - hence my frustration after Levi hammered Bork with how the whole thing went down.

If we lose this because Thor knows how to talk his way out of a lynch, and has the ego the size of an elephant I am going to be pissed.

ProHawk · Sun Dec 23, 2012 8:58 am

You are assuming that scum can't look town Mantis.

ProHawk · Mon Dec 24, 2012 2:25 am

Cause "Totally thought I was killing town" doesn't sound scummy at all...

ProHawk · Mon Dec 24, 2012 2:27 am

Hey Adam, you been busy for the holidays?

ProHawk · Mon Dec 24, 2012 7:55 am

Correct Guille. I was the first to advocate that scum would be least likely found in the bussing category, but something seems off about Adam in the event that scum did bus D1. I still want to lynch Thor if only for the fact that he belittles just about any post attacking him in an attempt to weaken the argument.

Hey, man, what's wrong with doing that? It works so well for me.

ProHawk · Mon Dec 24, 2012 8:09 am

@Maj

, Obviously it does work well ---> Look at his Avatar!

ProHawk · Mon Dec 24, 2012 8:36 am

You're right, that reason is more personal because I detest your playstyle. But I still think you are the non-bussing scum.

ProHawk · Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:39 am

No Thor, I just am stupid, amirite?

ProHawk · Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:41 am

Hey Thor, how sure are you Levi is the last scum?

ProHawk · Mon Dec 24, 2012 11:44 am

I am willing to be the lynch today if ya'll lynch Thor during the next game day.

ProHawk · Mon Dec 24, 2012 2:30 pm

I am 80% sure scum is between you and Adam.

ProHawk · Mon Dec 24, 2012 6:07 pm

Yes Angel, its 6 town to 1 scum so that would leave a mis-lynch, night kill -> 4 town to 1 scum. Another mis-lynch and night kill leaves 2 town and 1 scum. So if we really suck it up then we have two more days of crappy choices ahead of us.

Thor, my martyrdom leaves scum with less places to hide, more probable for the last scum to be found, and if people suspect me as scum I am the last person that should be alive to LYLO, so no my willingness to be lynched is not hurting the town as much as you paint it to be. The fact that you can't understand this only leaves me to believe that you indeed are scum.

Vote Count

Thor665 (L-1): ProHawk, Guile, Adam-12

Guile (L-2): Leviathan93
Leviathan93 (L-3): Thor665

Not Voting: - ArcAngel9, Mantisdreamz

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

Deadline is Thursday, January 10th, 2013 at 5:30 PM EST

ProHawk · Tue Dec 25, 2012 3:28 am

Levi, No offense, but you are no-where-near confirmed town and you are pretty easy to tear apart.

ProHawk · Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:49 pm

Adam is scum. I have it on good authority that he was researching how to play scum recently and I am working up a post that mirrors the advice to Adam's play.

ProHawk · Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:34 pm

I realize that for most of you here, Adam

looks

the least scummy to you. But I ask...

Is it possible for scum to not play scummy? Could they manage to play just like a townie?

Of course the answer to this is yes. It is what Adam has generally accomplished thus far. I have already delved into my suspicions and its obvious now that scum

did

bus on D1. All of the players off of Bork's wagon are all dead save myself. There is

no

way that scum would leave a PoE that leads directly to themselves. Again, I realize that this coming from me (the last off the Bork lynching wagon) it doesn't hold much water, but just give it a moments thought.

That leaves Adam, Levi, and Guille. Adam is my suspect #1.

Reasons:

He had both Mala and Bork as scum, yet voted for Bork
despite
Mala being the lead wagon.
He maintained that he would flip to Mala if he needed to for a lynch.
His position was the least dangerous of the bussing positions (L-2 (Adam) vs L-1 (Guille) vs Hammer (Levi)), but was stuck in his position once the momentum was up on Bork from Guille and Levi's quick hammer before a claim. By least dangerous, I mean at the time it wasn't going to directly lead to the lynch of his scum-buddy, but would still give him points for having attacked him whichever way the day went.
He mentioned that he was willing to hammer Thor early on in the day, but was too trigger shy to actually do it, meaning he didn't want the negative attention that hammering a townie would bring.

These are hard facts that I cannot see from Levi or Guille.

If you can't bring yourself to lynch Adam, Levi is my suspect #2.

There have been some very scummy posts that have come out of Levi, and he does not make decisions out of logic, but makes decisions from his gut. If Adam is scum, gut feelings aren't going to cut it in LYLO. You have got to be able to gather all of the information and get down to the truth. Levi

cannot

live to LYLO.

That leaves Guille as suspect #3. His vote on Bork is just nailing the coffin on his scum-partner and wouldn't have been the smartest scum play IMO. From what I have seen out of his posts, I doubt he would play scum like that. I bet he would have voted Mala to save his partner.

The two people I am willing to lynch today are Adam and Levi.

VOTE: Adam

Up Next: My Research on Adam-Scum Play.

ProHawk · Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:48 pm

Because I think you were waiting for a claim to hop off the wagon before your partner was lynched. It would have been the logical "out" but it never came, hence why you were stuck on the wagon.

ProHawk · Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:18 pm

Mantis, I was testing a theory that Mala was Thor's scum partner and I wanted to see how he reacted if she went up to L-1.

Levi, you said yourself you are more of a gut player, scum will eat you alive in LYLO (if you aren't scum yourself)

Adam, who said I didn't care about claims? I practically begged Thor to claim last game day. The only reason I didn't want to wait for a Bork claim is because we were backed up to a deadline-wall of which we had no idea when it was going to come crashing down.

ProHawk · Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:30 pm

In post 1890, Mantisdreamz wrote:actually,
prohawk pushed hard for a mala lynch
adam and guille pushed hard for a mollie lynch..

so, maybe the theory that scum wouldn't push that hard for lynch is false.
..

Mantis, I think the difference is pushing for a lynch and being willing to be on the lynch wagon while pushing hard. It will make more sense once I finish my big post, but I would have pushed until Mala was lynched. Adam only pushed hard in the middle of the day, not at the end, same for Guille.

ProHawk · Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:33 pm

In post 1892, leviathan93 wrote:i'm WAY more confident in myself now

I have to agree with you here.

ProHawk · Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:37 pm

Yes, but compare his pushing type of posts to when during the day they were. No hard pushes at the end of the day when a lynch would actually occur. Any scum would know that they can push hard anytime during the day without their push turning into a lynch because the lynch wont happen until closer to the deadline. If it does, they can attack the foolish townie who hammered early. This is especially evident in games with long day phases such as this one.

ProHawk · Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:02 pm

Mantis, Adam is pretty much rehashing my argument I made D2 about why Guille is town on my read. If you and your scum partner could live past D2 why wouldn't you go that route? Bussing/lynching your partner is not a free pass to the end game.

ProHawk · Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:33 pm

So you are willing to let Adam win, just because you think he has played an outstanding game?

ProHawk · Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:48 pm

Ok, so while I was doing some research into where Adam disappeared to during his hiatus, I was disappointed to see that he didn't have any other games that I could cross-reference with activity, what I did find, however was intriguing.

The title is: How to Win as Mafia: Calculated Inaction.

In post 0, Lord Gurgi wrote:So you've started a game. You say your role is mafia? Well congratulations, you probably just won. But here's a guide to help you win more easily. Always keep in mind, that playing as mafia is a game of waiting. Wait long enough, and the town will kill itself.

Do not call the strongest members of the town scum, rather pick on weaker but more neutral figures. If you pick on people that are too easy, you will eventually run out of valid scumreads, and if you only pick on the strongest members of the town, it will likely turn on you. Attack the people that can't defend themselves. Newbies are a good choice.

Adam's Scum Claims:

Shrimp (#107)
Code, Guille, Mantis (#173) ((Post #230 removes Mantis from Scum))
Mollie (#309)
Bork (#512)
Mala (#1249)

Adam's main scum pushes D1 were Shrimp, Guille, and Mollie. Bork was a quick push with little scum-hunting, and Mala wasn't really a push. I will let you all decide who were the strongest and weakest contenders, but Shrimp was new, Guille wasn't a heavy poster (neutral) and Mollie was flailing.

Early on, post a lot, and frequently. Most people will subconsciously treat active players as town. Almost nobody will suspect you for this on its own.

D1
- 21 Days
Posts D1 - 0-461 - 461 Posts

Posts/Day1 - 21 posts/day

D2
- 6 Days
Posts D2 - 461-485 - 25 Posts

Posts/Day2 - 4 posts/day

Because we didn't have nearly the same amount of time D2 as D1, I wanted to make a post/day comparison. I have never seen anyone post as much as Adam. He definately doesn't have the same vigor he did D1.

Call out lurkers. They are easy to lynch, but don't try to lynch them until later in the game. Their wagon will provide good escape later if you need it. Be sure to make this a long-term campaign. If you notice the flow go against your allies or your scum-calls begin to push the lurkers.

First major post of calling out lurkers is #173, with small jabs at them later on.

Outline rough suspicion of your dumbest partner. Do not push their wagon, just list them as neutral-leaning-scum or something to that effect. Meanwhile, defend your other partner from significant attacks. This will separate your team in the minds of the town.

Outlined Rough Suspicion and proceeded to pressure others. His vote for Bork Starts in Post #511, and is maintained until his next vote for Mollie in #798. His pressuring of Bork stops in Post #552, he didn't push the wagon, just let the vote sit.

He didn't have another partner, so it doesn't apply.

Defend the strongest players of the town. Pick one in particular to defend excessively. If you die, this will tie you to them and allow your team to lynch them quickly. As a note, generally, if you build a meta for defending people you will do well in all your games.

Adam made more than one post defending me, I would even say excessively. I am sure you remember, but if you don't I would be happy to quote them for you.

For lynch on the first day, push the second or third most popular lynch. Do not try to make your wagon fail, but hope that it does. After that, continue to push reads that are less likely to be lynched. If one of your reads becomes a major lynch though, lynch them. Do not back down.

Adam's vote on Bork strikes me as a strong indicator of this play. Bork was the second most popular lynch.

If you notice someone acting scummy, and no one else has yet picked up on it, take the opportunity. If you lynch an unexpected person the next day reverts to earlier lynch prospects much of the time. Essentially the town loses a day.

Adam's push on Angel, despite saying that he believed Shrimps town-slip fits nicely into this category.

Taper off your posting as you go. Do not suddenly disappear, just gradually reduce your rate of posting. Try to keep large but infrequent posts at first, but later shorter posts will do. You want to appear like you are losing interest in the game. You also want to have an excuse for dodging the nightkills. Living too long being too town will be problematic.

Notice the posting frequency at the start of the game to now.

Attack players that do not know how to defend themselves properly. Start with a case that is factual, but weak. When the player overreacts and digs themselves deeper and deeper, you will have a good wagon to sit on. If it sees lynch, you have lynched someone that everyone agrees deserved it, and if it doesn't you have a plausible distraction from the main lynches.

Mollie wasn't on Adam's push-agenda until he saw how much she was able to dig herself deeper and deeper.

Don't underestimate the power of subtle praise. "That's a great point" and "I didn't notice that" or even "I'm sheeping X, who is obv-town" helps building false confidence in townies. This will make the townie think you are town, and if they turn out to be wrong they get the blame and their confidence is shaken. It is generally good to leave the responsibility for the town's lynches on the town.

Adam was full of praise for me D1. My Favorite - Lifetime Subscription

The town tends to believe that it ought to win. They are wrong, but you can take advantage of this. If someone has been on many of the major wagons, you have just found a free lynch target. Similarly, if there is someone that seems to be causing the town not to succeed, they are a good target. Generally, the mafia should be encouraging the idea that the town is being conned by their leaders.

Post #1356 - "I think we are being played"

Notes are in green, I edited out the topics that weren't relevant to Adam's play. Feel free to read the whole post if you wish.

As I said before, I have it on good authority that he as used this post as research. The evidence in this game is more than coincidence that he is putting the advice to use. So did he use this research as scum or to find scum? The fact that he has incorporated 11 of the suggestions into his play here leads me to believe that he used it as scum in order to play an amazing scum-game.

ProHawk · Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:40 am

No Guille, she bread-loafed. She basically soft-claimed to Mantis.

ProHawk · Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:29 am

Because I had written her off as town, I was basically ignoring her posts the entire day as they were pretty illogical and somewhat difficult to follow so I was just as confused as you were as to why she died. My only conclusion I could come up with was that she hinted at her role. I had to ISO her to find it out, and yeah it was there in pain sight. Thor was the first one to point it out (stupid of him IMO) and Mantis continued to quote the post in response. Adam voted her despite the reveal.

In post 1739, ArcAngel9 wrote:Sorry for the double post.. i honestly don't know how that was happened.

Mantis, I am open to consider if you can actually tell me why i should believe you
In what way you're the Tracker and confirmed townie. If you tell me that then i ll hint something about me. Its an exciting news for you.

^ Here is the first post. I would consider this a crumb... kinda. And next is the winner.

In post 1745, ArcAngel9 wrote:
Why would you think that there is only one more scum, I was hoping there are at least two scums.
about Guille, Thor and Prohawk. I will need to re-look at them, and this time i won't be rushing but let my vote stay on you though i believe you for now.
And about Adam, I am tired of his questions. He just doesn't stop. that's no good

And about me. I thought you would have guessed already.
Anyways i am one of those people in town you were looking for.

Its a freaking bright red-target she painted on her back, completely unnecessary. I figured it out at the beginning of the game-day as I was looking for why.

ProHawk · Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:50 pm

You are a studious player Adam. I wouldn't put it past you.

ProHawk · Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:51 pm

So hey, what was the deal with you voting Angel right after she soft-claimed Watcher?

ProHawk · Sat Dec 29, 2012 1:26 am

There is no way Mantis survives, as she is confirmed town

ProHawk · Sat Dec 29, 2012 1:37 am

Oh, and its just like scum to deny knowing about the claim, you just randomly killed Angel to find she was the Watcher right? I find it hard to believe that you (Adam) didn't see the claim, you were the one attacking Angel/following her posts.

ProHawk · Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:49 am

Everyone needs to re-read this string of posts.

Spoiler: String of Posts RE:Claim

In post 1739, ArcAngel9 wrote:Sorry for the double post.. i honestly don't know how that was happened.

Mantis, I am open to consider if you can actually tell me why i should believe you
In what way you're the Tracker and confirmed townie. If you tell me that then i ll hint something about me. Its an exciting news for you.

In post 1741, Thor665 wrote:
In post 1739, ArcAngel9 wrote:In what way you're the Tracker and confirmed townie. If you tell me that then i ll hint something about mxe. Its an exciting news for you.

In post 1744, Mantisdreamz wrote:oh yea, what was the exciting news?

In post 1745, ArcAngel9 wrote:
In post 1743, Mantisdreamz wrote:
In post 1739, ArcAngel9 wrote:
Mantis, I am open to consider if you can actually tell me why i should believe you
In what way you're the Tracker and confirmed townie. If you tell me that then i ll hint something about me. Its an exciting news for you.

well....
i told you before (or other people have told you), that if i was not tracker, someone else would step up and claim that i was indeed lying. nobody has done that. and, there is no reason for anyone NOT TO, at this point. being that there is only one scum left. someone could counter claim me, and then expose me as scum.

so the fact that no one has counterclaimed right now, and in day 1 - WHEN EVERYONE HAD THE CHANCE TO CLAIM 'not tracker', goes to show that there is not a counterclaim.

I'm a bit baffled that we are discussing this.

but if you are town - i think you are very much wrong about Adam.
What are your opinions on Guille, Thor and Prohawk? and if you had to choose a scum from them, which one would it be?

Why would you think that there is only one more scum, I was hoping there are at least two scums.
about Guille, Thor and Prohawk. I will need to re-look at them, and this time i won't be rushing but let my vote stay on you though i believe you for now.
And about Adam, I am tired of his questions. He just doesn't stop. that's no good

And about me. I thought you would have guessed already. Anyways i am one of those people in town you were looking for.

In post 1746, Adam-12 wrote:Ok, I'm really fed up with this.

I read Hawk's post and I find it quite town.

How about my vote stays here until you tell me when "later" you learned that Levi's vote killed Bork?

Unvote, Vote Angel

In post 1747, Thor665 wrote:
In post 1742, ArcAngel9 wrote:
In post 1741, Thor665 wrote:
In post 1739, ArcAngel9 wrote:In what way you're the Tracker and confirmed townie. If you tell me that then i ll hint something about me. Its an exciting news for you.

Neutral about whom? Mantis
What is your reason?

No, mantis is confirmed town unless anyone else says they are the Tracker.
No one else is.
Hence - she is confirmed town.
The rest of your play at the moment is what leaves me neutral. Please stop it and just scumhunt.

In post 1748, ProHawk wrote:
In post 1727, Thor665 wrote:Okay, so new plan.

Any tracker needs to counterclaim *today* and also right now.
Otherwise they are scum if they claim at any other time.
That gives us a confirmed town in Mantis - huzzah.

She can keep looking for the Watcher, because functionally every person she investigates she'll learn to help us to root out any fake Watcher claims later.

Vote: Guille

I tend to expect scum to have bussed or fled the wagon - Guille looks like a busser due to location.
I could do Arc too for ducking the wagon. ::shrug::
I think Levi is probably town, because I don't think both scum buddied me.

So you are taking the bussing route. That would leave Levi, Adam, and Guille.

Adam voted to tie up Mala-town and Bork-scum.
Guille voted to place Bork-scum at L-1.
Levi hammer voted Bork-scum.

I pretty much defended Bork to the end, calling for people to lynch Mala-town. Scum had me practically doing all of the dirty work for them.
So...
Why would the remaining scum, when Mala was the lead wagon, give momentum to the Bork-Wagon (Adam)?
Or
Why would the scum put the Bork-Scum wagon in the lead when he could have easily put Mala-town in the lead (Guille)?
Or
Why would scum hammer Bork-scum when he could have voted Mala-town to tie up both wagons and potentially stall the game into a no-lynch (Levi)?

To gain town-cred you say? I am seeing way too much risk here without enough reward. At least to me until Guille voted, Bork did not seem like he was going down in a ball of flames. While I agree that your choice (Guille) is the most likely candidate out of the three, I fully believe that scum will be found in the non-bussing category, ala you, me, and Angel.

Your predecessor was acting like scum before she replaced out most likely because your slot is scum. You are obviously a well seasoned mafia-man which is why you wiggled out of the lynch D1, but I feel like the evidence against you is overwhelming in this case.

In post 1749, leviathan93 wrote:It is a definite possibility that thor is scum. i'm not saying this for sure but it is my gut right now. I do have an uneasy feel about guille but honestly its because of his beginning play as a lurker that bugs me the most and I feel he hasn't added much other then really long explanations every once in a while. yes, they are kind of helpful but still. it may be because he is trying to just get by. i don't know. honestly my hammer of bork was luck. I chose bork because I felt mala was innocent. even though I had pretty much absolutely no read on bork, and to find out he is scum scared the bejeebies out of me. to me, that either means I suck at judging people, catching scum tells or what. if that is the case then i am almost shit out of luck. however, i was confident in my mala as town read and her death unfortunately confirms that.
adam is the new mala for me this day. he is my confirmed town. so am I. for me this leaves 5. mantis claims tracker so this leaves 4. thor, angel, hawk, guille. my gut tells me to believe angel. this leaves 3. thor, hawk, guille. hawk seems helpful, but pushy. could be like someone who doesn't care about how they look which to me is a town tell. this is only a light read that could be wrong however. but ill go with it for the time being. this leaves 2. thor and guille. I am not impressed with guille at the moment and i believe scum to be most likely in one of those two. therefore my vote goes too. VOTE: guille

Adam, its clear you, Mantis, and Thor were reading Angel's posts, I just skipped over them as I was tunneling Thor, and it looks like Levi skipped over them too. Guille was just... gone as per usual.

ProHawk · Sat Dec 29, 2012 4:00 am

Survives in the future tense Guille, not past tense. I don't really think Angel had much clue as to how important her role actually was.

ProHawk · Sun Dec 30, 2012 4:19 am

Adam, you're almost right. I had originally thought that scum was in the non-bussing category from D1 (Thor, Hawk, Angel), but I believe that with Thor's lynch being town, as well as Angel's death being town that scum will be found in the bussing category (Adam, Levi, Guille).

The biggest issue is you went right along with it, no questions asked. Also, it was "Vote me today as long as you vote Thor tomorrow" not the other way around.

Being sick sucks, but we have plenty of time to let you get over it so you can actually make a convincing case. Your defense about your play has been lack-luster at best.

ProHawk · Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:59 am

In post 1948, guille2015 wrote:Hawk, did you just now realize that scum was in the busser category

After Thor flipped town, and Angel flipped town, I was 100% sure. Personally I think it was a silly move on scum's part, but I wasn't the one to make the decision, so we can discuss it post game I suppose.

ProHawk · Sun Dec 30, 2012 1:56 pm

And I you Adam.

ProHawk · Sun Dec 30, 2012 1:59 pm

Adam, is it not possible for nothing to be wrong with the play of someone who drew the scum-card?

ProHawk · Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:16 pm

Adam, I hope you are feeling better because, I never said lynch me tomorrow. You need to quote it. You also have it wrong in that a no-lynch can be just as beneficial for scum, if I was scum, I would never stick my neck out because I "lost a lynch".

ProHawk · Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:26 pm

...you say that as if reads are the end-all, or can't change. Where did I say I should be lynched today?

ProHawk · Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:41 pm

No, I said, this is the order we need to lynch: Thor, ProHawk, Angel.

That was based on the theory that sum did not bus. Saying what I thought the order was and saying lynch me tomorrow are completely different things. Odds are now with two of the three people who didn't bus Bork dead that scum did in-fact bus. There is absolutely no question in my mind because I know my alignment, but the rest of you need to determine. Did scum bus D1 or not?

In post 1845, ProHawk wrote:I am willing to be the lynch today if ya'll lynch Thor during the next game day.

That post is what Adam is trying to throw against me, but what I said was the opposite. Lynch me yesterday and lynch Thor today.

ProHawk · Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:51 pm

You're right, I am saying now that scum is not found in that list and lynching it would be a mistake. Hindsight is 20/20. If the town (not you Adam) thinks I should be held to be lynched based off of what I said in #1711 I am willing to stand up to it, but its the wrong move.

ProHawk · Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:57 pm

I will run through Levi's ISO, but I have seen a ton of scummy things slip from Levi, so I am not too sure I can say he is town. He hammered on Bork without letting him claim, stupid scum move IMO, but it doesn't rule out the possibility.

ProHawk · Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:58 pm

So Adam, you are 100% sure that scum didn't bus D1?

ProHawk · Sun Dec 30, 2012 3:05 pm

Hang-on Mantis, I am reading on Levi's ISO and he has some weird interaction with Codex while he was completely inactive.

UNVOTE:

I am going to unvote just so you don't think I am being self-righteous in telling you not to hammer.

ProHawk · Sun Dec 30, 2012 3:06 pm

My begging looked like a Mala lynch was going through to you?

ProHawk · Sun Dec 30, 2012 3:09 pm

Why is that Levi? You worried because I don't hold you in high esteem?

ProHawk · Sun Dec 30, 2012 3:30 pm

Adam, did you actually go read Levi's scum game?

ProHawk · Sun Dec 30, 2012 3:42 pm

Adam, make sure you read Levi's scum game, I want to see if we come up with the same thinking.

ProHawk · Sun Dec 30, 2012 3:57 pm

Levi, do you mean the more I poke at you the more you want me dead? Why would scum poke at you? You just said scum is the one who [has] played under the radar...

ProHawk · Sun Dec 30, 2012 4:18 pm

Levi, do you not see your own scumminess dripping from your lips?

ProHawk · Sun Dec 30, 2012 4:22 pm

...I'm sure you would.

ProHawk · Sun Dec 30, 2012 4:32 pm

Adam, your appeal to fear of my "manipulation" is pretty scummy, just saying...

ProHawk · Sun Dec 30, 2012 4:34 pm

Here is what I don't get... Levi practically says he is going to hammer you and you literally don't care.

Let me re-post what you said I said so you can get it straight instead of spinning it.

ProHawk · Sun Dec 30, 2012 4:55 pm

In post 1954, Adam-12 wrote:There has been nothing wrong with my play and therefore nothing to defend.

Also,
you clearly stated to lynch you tomorrow if we just lynch Thor today
, hence your manipulation. Also your actions around every wagon you have been on have been to rush for the hammer.

Tomorrow everyone should be aware of this and lynch Hawk in LYLO. It will be Guille, Levi, Hawk. We need to be totally clear on this before we end the day.

Personally, I think we should end the day and the game and lynch Hawk today.

In post 1964, Adam-12 wrote:
In post 1711, ProHawk wrote:

Thor
ProHawk
Angel

This is the order in which I believe we should lynch

I know I am not scum, and would rather see Thor
go first
.

You used this as a ploy to live through D2 and took it completely back on D3.

In post 2021, Adam-12 wrote:
In post 2019, ProHawk wrote:Adam, your appeal to fear of my "manipulation" is pretty scummy, just saying...

Really? You are the one that denied you made the claim you should be lynched after Thor right? You are still denying it??

1) I never clearly stated "to lynch you tomorrow

if we just lynch Thor today

".
2) The evidence you provided was my post of a lynching order. Does it logically follow that I should by lynched according to that post after Thor? Yes. Did I ever say "Lynch me tomorrow"? No.

So yes Adam, I still deny making the claim because I never made it. I made a post in which showed the probability of scum being off Bork's wagon according to their order of highest scum-probability. I changed my mind based off of events that shed more light onto the subject (the death of Thor and Angel).

ProHawk · Sun Dec 30, 2012 4:57 pm

Levi, you have done little to nothing to convince me you are town.

ProHawk · Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:04 pm

Like I said Adam, at the time that was how I saw it, now I don't see it that way. The fact that I am trying to get you to see is I never said lynch me tomorrow. That was your interpretation of my post.

ProHawk · Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:12 pm

Guille, re-reading Levi's ISO here is the feeling I get:

He is playing the newbie-card a lot. Its something that I noticed was particularly absent from his town-games that he played before this one. I am not one for meta, but the fact that he is using the newbie-card I don't see any-other way to get any semblance of a read as he has done innumerable amounts of scummy things from hammering Bork without waiting for a claim, to going ballistic during twilight when the topic of his lynch was brought up, to wanting to get to LYLO so quickly with a hammer of Adam, just to name a few.

ProHawk · Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:16 pm

Here is what bugs me about Guille:

I don't like how he brought up the whole Angel-night-kill thing. This makes me think he is scum trying to get everyone to think that he had no clue. It worked with Mantis. Other problem, he has been pretty much chilling out this whole game except for this game day. Now he is some kind of crusader who wants to make sure we maximize before LYLO. It smells like he is trying to make sure he looks super town going into tomorrow.

ProHawk · Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:18 pm

Adam, you're right. Sacrificing your partner is something that was absent in every-one of the games except for one where it was written into the rules. So if he did it, I am not sure where he got it from. But I know he is smarter than he is leading us to believe.

ProHawk · Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:19 pm

The problem with Adam:

I know he read that post on Calculated Inaction and his play this game literally mirrors the majority of the tips from that post. Coincidence? I'm not so sure.

ProHawk · Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:28 pm

Adam, actually, what you said just made sense to me. Scratch that hammering Bork without a claim. But there are still a host of scummy posts that could be referenced for Levi.

ProHawk · Sun Dec 30, 2012 6:06 pm

In post 2048, Adam-12 wrote:
In post 2043, ProHawk wrote:Here is what bugs me about Guille:

I don't like how he brought up the whole Angel-night-kill thing. This makes me think he is scum trying to get everyone to think that he had no clue. It worked with Mantis. Other problem, he has been pretty much chilling out this whole game except for this game day. Now he is some kind of crusader who wants to make sure we maximize before LYLO. It smells like he is trying to make sure he looks super town going into tomorrow.

Can you help me with that, my reading comprehension has not been the best over the last two days...

Not sure what you aren't getting?

Guille's first post out of the gates was basically - remorse over making the wrong choice (lynching Thor) and why Angel? - Don't get me wrong I had the exact same thoughts, but I didn't make a whole post about it, I figured it out on my own. I just think the whole big post could have conveniently been contrived so that we wouldn't suspect that he caught on to Angels soft-claim. And now he is all over Mantis about not wanting to end the day early. This is certainly pro-town, but I didn't get that vibe from him before now.

ProHawk · Sun Dec 30, 2012 6:31 pm

Ahh, sorry Adam, I should have quoted them for you.

ProHawk · Sun Dec 30, 2012 6:43 pm

Adam, what do you think about this?

Guille wrote: Had Prohawk and bork been both scum buddies. Then, I don't think Hawk would willingly pressure levi to Hammer. Else, he'd hammer himself and appear much better in the outset. Yeah, I think I can assume Prohawk is town.

ProHawk · Sun Dec 30, 2012 7:15 pm

I hadn't actually thought about scum not needing to know about the soft-claim, but I still believe that it was the reason she died. I can see how it could have been a coincidence, but I doubt it. Heck, I was practically the only person who thought she was conf-town.

So my point about those posts are they sound manufactured to posture himself as town.

ProHawk · Mon Dec 31, 2012 7:54 am

Ok, I have my game-plan-B in case its wrong. Scum-bussed. Adam's position in the bus was the least risky-at-the-time-of-vote, topped with his play that matches his ideal scum-lord.

VOTE: Adam

ProHawk · Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:54 am

In post 2072, leviathan93 wrote:this being said. WE NEED EVERYONES BACK UP PLANS STATED! and if they lie and change it then we know who the true scum is.

Guille, Mantis, and Adam, what do you think about the above statement?

ProHawk · Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:05 am

I will wait for the others to respond before responding to you Levi.

ProHawk · Tue Jan 01, 2013 8:35 am

@ Maj - I was disappointed you couldnt get any points for being the first post of the odd pages. Out-gunned.

ProHawk · Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:54 pm

He is V/LA until the 10th.

ProHawk · Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:56 pm

MOD-KILL!!

ProHawk · Tue Jan 01, 2013 3:30 pm

Mantis, after you catch up, would like a comment on what Levi wrote.

ProHawk · Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:26 pm

^This makes a lot of sense actually.

ProHawk · Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:47 pm

From what I have read, Levi, you have said everything while saying nothing all at the same time. Quite a feat.

ProHawk · Tue Jan 01, 2013 5:40 pm

So according to your analysis, our greatest odds are to lynch Guille today?

ProHawk · Tue Jan 01, 2013 5:43 pm

Honestly, I can find scum in all three of you. I would be willing to lynch Guille.

ProHawk · Tue Jan 01, 2013 5:52 pm

Don't worry mantis, you won't look like a fool on my account.

ProHawk · Tue Jan 01, 2013 5:55 pm

I actually can't put my finger on why Adam is tunneling so hard-core.

ProHawk · Tue Jan 01, 2013 6:00 pm

You're right Adam, I wouldn't have voted Bork even if I was scum.

ProHawk · Tue Jan 01, 2013 6:12 pm

You realize your goading of Levi's ego is quite scummy when you guys get into LYLO together?

ProHawk · Tue Jan 01, 2013 6:15 pm

Because he is posturing himself as the good-guy in your eyes by making you feel good now.

ProHawk · Tue Jan 01, 2013 6:18 pm

If you are town, yes you should stop. If you are scum, by all means keep it up.

ProHawk · Tue Jan 01, 2013 6:21 pm

More scummy as in has done-more that looks like scum? Levi.

However, that may just be because Guille has posted quite a bit less. 74 posts vs 199 posts. Based on recent interactions, I would vote Guille over Levi.

ProHawk · Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:03 pm

^Could you provide some reasoning?

ProHawk · Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:45 am

I need to hear from Guille before we hammer Levi.

ProHawk · Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:24 am

Ugg, Levi for pulling that stupid stupid move you may have just cost us the game. You lose any/all rights to say "I told you so".

I think we need to decide who places their vote first. The person who is most likely scum needs to go first. I am of the opinion that Adam needs to vote first.

ProHawk · Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:07 am

When we get it all figured out you know, its best to have scum with the first vote down. No quick hammers that way.

ProHawk · Sun Jan 06, 2013 2:18 pm

In post 2201, ProHawk wrote:Ugg, Levi for pulling that stupid stupid move you may have just cost us the game. You lose any/all rights to say "I told you so".

I think we need to decide who places their vote first. The person who is most likely scum needs to go first. I am of the opinion that Adam needs to vote first.

In post 2202, Adam-12 wrote:And we need to vote why?

That is such a scum thing to suggest.

Guille do not vote under any circumstances.

I am going to sleep.

Take a look at these two posts. Where did I say that we needed to vote now? You are quick to sling mud Adam and missed the point. Any reason why?

I never said we needed to vote now. I said we needed to determine

in which order

we lay down our votes. I vote that you are the person who votes first when the time comes.

ProHawk · Sun Jan 06, 2013 3:27 pm

I disagree.

ProHawk · Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:16 pm

Wait, if you think its me, and I think its you and you are willing to let Guille be the deciding factor, why aren't you voting me now?

ProHawk · Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:36 pm

Actually, that pretty much convinced me.

VOTE: Adam

ProHawk · Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:50 pm

No, I lied. I hate LYLO.

UNVOTE: Adam

I will sleep on it. Guille would you quit being out of town/lurking?

ProHawk · Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:04 am

You would say that. Its moronic for scum to place the first vote.

ProHawk · Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:31 am

Scum want to be the quick hammer.

ProHawk · Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:05 am

Dude, I am 80% sure you are scum.

ProHawk · Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:07 pm

Adam, why shouldn't I vote you?

ProHawk · Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:08 pm

I am sure I already know your answer, but if I knew Guille was town, why wouldn't I have just left my vote on you?

ProHawk · Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:25 pm

Nope. I unvoted so Guille wouldn't quick hammer because I still haven't decided if he is town yet or not.

ProHawk · Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:26 pm

In post 2226, Adam-12 wrote:You were clearly concerned about Guille voting for me rather than yourself

This is exactly why I unvoted. Because that right there would have been a quick-hammer.

ProHawk · Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:28 pm

In post 2223, ProHawk wrote:Adam, why shouldn't I vote you?

Please answer this.

ProHawk · Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:50 pm

Meh, I have put way too much time into this game.

I still can't decide whether you are town or not. I hate how you are trying to get any opportunity you can get your slippery hands on dirt to sling mud at me. One, because its clouding my judgement and making me want to vote you off (a mistake I made with Thor), and two because its easy to vote for someone that you despise for the wrong reason. Heck, everything I have done today you have twisted into some-sort-of-scum-move.

Here is my dilemma: My picturesque scum is one who takes it easy, doesn't cause too much stir and lets town handle their own demise.

That picturesque scum here is Guille.

Then comes my revelation of your scum-research. You have literally played the perfect D1-scum-game, the resemblance of your play has practically mirrored that posts ideal scum-play. And I can't just write that off as just being a town player because of a few of the techniques are used to set you up in the end-game. Mostly the buddying that you did with me first, and later what you tried to do with Levi. You didn't even refute any-part of my post except to say that it was OTT.

I would hate us to lose because I voted you for playing too-well, its just a stupid argument to make. On the other hand, I can't come up with any solid reason to vote for Guille either as he really hasn't been around much compared to you. His posturing at the beginning of the last day had me a little worried, but Mantis thought you were scum, Thor thought you could have been scum, so I add their weight to my side along with my personal bias of your lame attacks on me that began after I started accusing you of being scum for not lynching Mala.

VOTE: Adam

Forget all this self-righteous crap about not "just voting" or "scum-vote-first". We have had 90 pages and 2000+ posts of content to get reads and determine who is who. Can't get much from the latest happenings because our glorious town-aligned-Levi decided to lynch himself instead of force a scum to kill him. Now I have to decide if scum was on his wagon or not, and the worst part about it is that the other player who could have been scum was V/LA. LEVI I TOLD YOU TO WAIT UNTIL GUILLE CAME BACK! Oh well. This is where I stand, quick-hammer or not.

ProHawk · Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:23 pm

He has had a chance to post.

ProHawk · Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:05 pm

Frankly, the way you are playing doesn't jive with what you are saying. If I am scum, who cares if I have my vote down on you right now?

ProHawk · Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:06 pm

I would expect town to say something like. "You're about to let scum have the win, get your vote off, lets reason through this". Not "wow, you sure are scum!"

ProHawk · Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:59 am

You're so caught Adam.

ProHawk · Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:09 am

@Maj I am glad I can keep you from falling asleep reading the thread

Implying I've read this thread at all. I stopped following it after d1.

ProHawk · Tue Jan 08, 2013 8:40 am

Consider the following: Why would I place my vote on Adam when it would just clear Guille as town? It would make it that much harder for me to win as scum.

ProHawk · Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:11 am

Are the day lengths set in Central Park, or can we blame Majiffy for the amazingly long D1?

ProHawk · Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:14 am

That length is one of the reasons I won't play newbie games.

Vote Count

Adam-12 (L-1): ProHawk
ProHawk (L-1): Adam-12

Not Voting: - Guile

With 3 alive, it takes 2 to lynch.

Deadline is Sunday, Jan 26th at 11:00 PM EST

ProHawk · Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:13 pm

You love to do what to the newbies Maj?

ProHawk · Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:16 pm

ProHawk · Tue Jan 08, 2013 5:45 pm

I don't fear anything as town. I have made my share of LYLO mistakes, well one in particular where I was town and quick-voted (granted it was a marathon game) to lose it for the town. I don't lolly-gag and we have had plenty of time to sort stuff out. SOMEONE has to vote first and I bet 8 times out of 10 its not scum. Voting first as scum is a dumb play, and I already explained why.

I will point it out again, if you were so sure I was scum, you should have placed your vote down as well, but you were hesitant in the name of the town. It doesn't make sense, kinda like your Bork vote. It was silly of you to kill off your partner on D1.

ProHawk · Tue Jan 08, 2013 5:56 pm

If you would have voted me,

you

would have cleared Guille and that would have brought us to where we are right now, with another Adam vs. Hawk. Just like the last game-day. You were hoping that I would have had my doubts about Guille, so you waited.

Here is some more evidence:

Why would I as scum practically clear Shrimp/Angel as town D1? I stood by that town-slip because it was such a huge slip and was true.

Adam-Post-Prediction

(Don't tell me... the only way I could have known Shrimp was town was if I was scum amiright?)

Something else from you that doesn't make sense. You completely agreed with that town-slip and then started attacking Angel later-on. You couldn't let her just be confirmed town because you are scum and its devastating to scum to have confirmed town hanging out not getting lynched.

P-EDIT: I lol'ed at the "I tried to persuade you" part. I sure didn't catch that from your "you are for sure scum" posts.

ProHawk · Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:11 pm

In post 2262, Adam-12 wrote:
In post 2260, ProHawk wrote:
I will point it out again, if you were so sure I was scum, you should have placed your vote down as well, but you were hesitant in the name of the town.

This is also factually incorrect. If I had voted you it would of encouraged you to keep your vote in place (if you were town). Instead, I tried to persuade you to remove your vote. There was no hesitation and you trying to say that there was is scummy.

Which part is factually incorrect? The part about you being sure I was scum? The part where you were hesitant to place a vote? or The part where you should have placed your vote?

The first two definitely aren't factually incorrect as we have the posts to prove it. The latter, well that is just a judgement call. You say it would have encouraged me to keep my vote in place, but I am talking way before I even voted. And you could have voted me after I had unvoted. Its scummy to keep saying that I am scum, but not vote for me. You should have voted me in your post here if you actually believed what you were saying.

In post 2206, Adam-12 wrote:The order of voting is not important as who we are voting for. In your own way you expressed your desire to vote me and it is obvious who I am voting for. So really it comes down to Guille then. The only thing that will screw us is if Guille is scum.

If you knew who you were going to vote for, and you knew who I was going to vote for, and you were willing to let Guille be the deciding factor, why not place the vote? My theory is you weren't willing to let Guille be the deciding factor because your vote would confirm him as town, and keeping your options open was your best chance at survival.

The other option is you were still worried that Guille could be scum, but the problem with that theory is not one of your posts even come close to indicating that was the case. Except the one where you said we would be screwed if he were to be scum. And that isn't even voicing doubts, its just an "oh well" type of a post.

ProHawk · Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:18 pm

In post 2261, Adam-12 wrote:Your argument is so flawed: How did you know Guille wasn't going to quick hammer?? Its because you are scum that's how.

Oh yeah, see here's the thing. I didn't know Guille wasn't going to quick hammer. Honestly, I didn't really care that much. Guille doesn't post a whole lot and the game was just going to be me and you going back and forth. Your posts are literally like a magnet. They are driving me to vote you. Top that off with two dead townies with suspicion on you and I figured if I lost the game for the town, at least I would have some people that could shoulder some of the blame with me.

(This is mostly rehash of my voting post where I gave my rationale).

ProHawk · Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:23 am

You're so gay if you're the last scum Guille.

ProHawk · Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:35 am

I am so confused... Hey Bork. Your scum buddy voting you off D1, good choice or bad?

ProHawk · Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:00 am

Good job tricking the scums Mala

ProHawk · Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:41 am

Yeah... sorry bout that Mala.

Mollie! I wanted to say you were right about scum bumping against the tide and Bork was a prime example of it. I guess not all scum act like I would as scum...

Adam, well played! I would have never suspected you had you not posted in that thread on scum technique. I have to ask though.... why did you decide to tunnel me at the end? Other question, did you see Angels role crumb or did you kill her for a different reason?

Levi, I would recommend not letting emotions control you, but I hope you at least had fun.

Thor, I was completely wrong about you and I have a lot to learn from your experience.

Guille, thanks for not lynching me

Bork, sorry you got the short end of the stick.

Mantis, thanks for giving me the courage to vote off Adam during the last day.

ProHawk · Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:54 am

So you picked your replacement? Interesting.

ProHawk · Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:55 am

Oh! Forgot to thank maj for a fun game. Thanks Maj!

ProHawk · Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:20 pm

Guille, why did you think Adam was scum? Was it just from POE?

ProHawk · Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:16 pm

I enjoyed the dead commentary Thor. I would like to get into more games with you, although it seems like you play an abundant amount of newbie games.

ProHawk · Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:36 pm

Mala, I am terrible at picking up on crumbs, I slapped myself (for you Thor) for missing Angels. I was planning on re-reading your posts, but maybe you could just tell me what you did to try and look like a PR?

Thor, found one. Thanks

ProHawk · Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:39 pm

In post 2315, Mantisdreamz wrote:aren't you guys glad this is over?

... I just wish Adam would come back so I can satisfy my curiosity.

ProHawk · Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:13 am

Thanks for your thoughts Adam.