Open 480 - C9++ Game Over!

[Cheery Dog]

OH GRACIOUS I KNOW SO MANY PEOPLE ON THIS PLAYERLIST

3 knowing people isn't that many, that's only a quarter of the playerlistexcluding yourself!

VOTE: pieceofpecanpie

Last time I played with you, you were a miller, to which may have been a hint at you being scum here.
(no statistical evidence that being a miller results in drawing scum next time)

[Cheery Dog]

I also know Zai and Safety. Also three would still be like three times as many people as I've previously played going into a game before.
SYNTAX

So why did those two get special treatment over the plain "HI"s us others got? and 5 players still isn't that much, it's only five twelfths of the playlist excluding you, that doesn't do as much, but it's still half as many as I've met on this site before. (though that includes not having seen Messiah's playstyle or a Safety/implosion flip)

@implosion, if NS's captialising makes him scum, why the vote for goodmorning?

[Cheery Dog]

@implosion, if NS's captialising makes him scum, why the vote for goodmorning?

Why not?

You announced a feeling someone is scum, but you voted randomly instead. It's keeping us in RVS longer which makes it a problem.

[Cheery Dog]

Except that me questioning it gives us something to talk about, so I guess well done?

[Cheery Dog]

@implosion, if NS's captialising makes him scum, why the vote for goodmorning?

Why not?

You announced a feeling someone is scum, but you voted randomly instead. It's keeping us in RVS longer which makes it a problem.

Au contraire - my vote on goodmorning was anything

but

random.

So accidental, arbitrary, by chance or haphazardly?

[Cheery Dog]

@implosion, if NS's captialising makes him scum, why the vote for goodmorning?

Why not?

You announced a feeling someone is scum, but you voted randomly instead. It's keeping us in RVS longer which makes it a problem.

Au contraire - my vote on goodmorning was anything

but

random.

So accidental, arbitrary, by chance or haphazardly?

None of the above. In fact, it contained intent.

*anagrams*
right it's just a coincident that your vote wasn't on the person you were calling scummy, got ya.

Wait dammit I don't have enough T. Tents are silly places to be in anyway.

[Cheery Dog]

VOTE: Cheery Dog

I will not underestimate you this time...

So you're overestimating instead?

[Cheery Dog]

Where in the hell is the rest of the playerlist? I WANNA MAKE A REAL VOTE DAMMIT

Real votes don't require a full playerlist, (and besides we have had over half the playerlist post now anyway)

Will more people posting change who you "real vote" will go onto?

[Cheery Dog]

None of the above. In fact, it contained intent.

*anagrams*
right it's just a coincident that your vote wasn't on the person you were calling scummy, got ya.

Wait dammit I don't have enough T. Tents are silly places to be in anyway.

Elaborate for the masses please.

I tried thinking of a synonym to random that contained the word "intent", however there weren't enough T's to be right. Then there was a pun on

in

TENT to show that my whole post was a useless joke, obviously that didn't work and/or you're still tired.

It's as simple as that.

Okay, I understand your case now. I would simplify it further as "gut". Fair?

Understanding a case against you, what is this? and then just discrediting it to gut, I don't like that at all.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Cub Daigoro

[Cheery Dog]

That's gut. What would you call it?

No Gut's feelings that can't be explained, implosion has explained his thoughts, therefore not gut.

[Cheery Dog]

It's as simple as that.

Okay, I understand your case now. I would simplify it further as "gut". Fair?

Understanding a case against you, what is this? and then just discrediting it to gut, I don't like that at all.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Cub Daigoro

OK,

now

my CD vote is no longer random. Trying to understand the thought processes of others is how you read them.

He understands what is put against him, therefore I believe that means he does actually know what he has been doing is fake. I probably wouldn't have had a problem with him doing it, except that he's gone and tried to turn the case into "gut".

[Cheery Dog]

Secondly, I don't vote willy nilly (my meta), so I said what I said. I had pages to read more closely and catch up on.

I don't recall seeing that as such the time I played with you,it seemed about normal people voting speeds actually. (and some of the votes on me did come off quite fast, even if they weren't placed elsewhere)

[Cheery Dog]

Secondly, I don't vote willy nilly (my meta), so I said what I said. I had pages to read more closely and catch up on.

I don't recall seeing that as such the time I played with you,it seemed about normal people voting speeds actually. (and some of the votes on me did come off quite fast, even if they weren't placed elsewhere)

Mmmm, mmm, yes, mmm. Hi again Cheery, how are you, hope you're well.

Do you want to expand on that? Have I goofed or am I lying? Are you surreptitiously trying to slip some suspicion my way or just choosing to stay neutral?

What are your thoughts on Safety? Anything unusual about what he's been doing? I think he's been bad-mouthing triangles behind your back.

I haven't checked other games of yours and just gone with a double check of my memory, so your self-meta mention doesn't put you either way. I guess it does mean I will be watching you, but currently it's still null.

I'm not finding Safety that unusual yet, but I'm not finding him excessively usual either, which means I haven't worked out a read on him yet. People complain about other people using FoS's instead of votes all the time, I think it's more just early game stage stuffs.
As long as he isn't comparing them to circles in terms of angles, he can do whatever he wants to triangles.

[Cheery Dog]

I would write my post now, but my computer won't charge, so I'm saving the battery for more important things... no offense to you guys.
In other words, I'm stuck to phone posting.

You can still do a post on a phone, it just many fail to have quotes, do you have any early reads?

[Cheery Dog]

Cheery Dog, what was your interpretation of implosion's case? Basically, I agree with Cub Daigoro's reasoning here, so I'm curious as to why you disagree (preferably without using implosion's reasoning in Post 89, as that came later and elaborates on his initial reasoning presented).

implosion's case I feel is actually very weak, my reasons for voting were all to do with Cub's response to it though, which I've already summed up in 78.

(Cub) understands what is put against him, therefore I believe that means he does actually know what he has been doing is fake. I probably wouldn't have had a problem with him doing it, except that he's gone and tried to turn the case into "gut".

And the reason I haven't posted in two days is this Safety thing. I just don't see it, and until the slapfest is over I'm going to try very hard to ignore it, it's distracting and mostly unhelpful to have a couple of guys misrepping and/or snarking.

The Safety thing was less that two days ago, so you have no comments on anything that was posted before it. (such as the Cub wagon? You've only posted a useless FTFY remark since that started)

[Cheery Dog]

I was going to ask that if she's still alive day 3 when it becomes more interesting apparently.

But seeing as you've asked now, I may as well add more; is the wagon on me still as interesting?

[Cheery Dog]

He's not answering because not everyone was meant to understand it; That could be coming from any alignment.

Or he's not answering because he's gone on a lurk to look less foolish by bringing it up.
I don't think you can say anything about NS's reasons for not answering straight away, if he doesn't answer when he next posts, then fine so with your theory, but same alignment does not always mean town which I think you've taken it as.

[Cheery Dog]

If NS plays anything like he used to, then well, I don't think anyone can read him.

I'm getting this same message from a lot of people.

So what's the plan, then, folks who are saying this? Lay off him until...? Sounds like just the kind of player to pressure early so we don't get screwed in LYLO.

Play however you think is best, he is still capable of being read, even if it's wrongly.

CD: You're a cheery dog

Is the the only thing you have to say about me? I feel left out.
(and this looks like it might be as bad as when I played with cooldog, weirdly my other game with Cub wasn't like it though, probably because he replaced in)

[Cheery Dog]

...And I watched him scoot around on the site elsewhere at will for those 6 hours as well.

Also, just want to point out that that comes off as

kind of creepy.

Is being creepy a town or scum action? (or null?)

Huzzah! Attention!

Agreed I've been active lurking pretty bad, for lack of any scumreads that aren't weaker than American beer so far. The "put a lot of lead in the air and see what sticks" technique doesn't work very well for me.

As for my comments on NS's last post, I

do

overestimate people sometimes. It's preferable to underestimating them. Still not sure if I regret bringing it up, it could be useful later.

Still don't like the NS wagon; the case on him amounts to "Kill him because META!" It's unalloyed WIFOM.

I thought that was the reason why some people

weren't

voting him.

and that Appeal to failure (or possibly emotions, I'm not sure how it actually works) looks worse that the one from Apozzle. Depending on what happens in the coming pages, you're both possible scum for them.

[Cheery Dog]

@Cheery You seem to be starting the roll a few thoughts about players around. Are you lining things up to switch votes off Cub, just staying open to possibilities or something else?

I'm not totally gungho about Cub being scum, as he hasn't done anything more scummy since I voted him, however I feel he is still currently the most likely scum and therefore leaving my vote there, but there are a few people (as you see with my thoughts you're asking about) I'm started growing suspicions on, but they're not quite as high as the one I gandered on Cub.

[Cheery Dog]

Also, I didn't say I might be sheeping, I said I

was

sheeping but I wasn't sure who. That really should have drawn more fire, people.

Nice to know you're finding yourself scummy.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: beli

Slight shopping on everyone is a valid tactic, attempting to reaction test (or at least that's what I think you're doing with that comment) on it when there are already scummy people around just makes it look bad and out of place. It seems like you're playing a scum tactic of gaining some early heat which people forget about on later days.

[Cheery Dog]

This is terrible. First you say I'm finding myself scummy, then you say it's a reaction test. You can't have it both ways. Which is it?

I have one scumspect I have any confidence out of, when there may be up to 4 people who need to die. In this circumstance, how is a reaction test in any way inappropriate?

The apparent rection test was the slight sheeping of everyone (You've got your own confidence in that wagon yourself then now? Can you re-explain it for me?), you then didn't get any reactions so you had to call yourself scummy since noone else to draw the heat that would likely vanish since a one-time group sheeping is not a case on a person.

[Cheery Dog]

The active lurking from NS

is

his meta though.

[Cheery Dog]

He is hard/impossible to read because of all the active lurking, at least that's what I see.

[Cheery Dog]

@Cheery: Why are you calling out Beli harder than Apozzle when they did pretty much the same thing?

Beli's done it twice.

[Cheery Dog]

...And Apozzle just stopped doing it?

He hasn't told us what he's been doing should be rousing suspicion, so yes it appears to be the case. It may also be that he its no longer flat out lurking.

[Cheery Dog]

So sadly, today is very busy.
Sadly, tomorrow is also going to be very busy.
If I can find free time, I will put

something

relevant together before tuesday. I will make a post with an actual significant amount of content on tuesday.

I shall wait, because the more you put it off the better it had be.
but considering I actually think everyone is in this state at the moment, one person's content probably won't change much.

[Cheery Dog]

It's mostly meta, but it's also that the votehopping he's done just doesn't look scummy in the slightest to me.

D you know for sure he doesn't votehop as scum, or is it the reasoning along with the jumps that make you think that way?

Alright, so Safety's wagon isn't really moving and I'm not going to be the one to move it.

I'll craft a full explanation of why later today.

UNVOTE:

Considering it have the most votes (and now has equal most votes), and has probably actually moved the most out of any wagon so far, what do you think has caused it to become stuck?

HD!

My face is smiling so muchhhhhh

You should obviously sheep me, I keep forgetting this game exists.

Why would you be a good person to sheep if you forget the game exists? Those two things together don't sound very much like a town-wincon.

[Cheery Dog]

Asked and answered, 309.

Can you allow SD to do some of his own defending? I'm losing what Cub is actually getting at when people defend others with his mass of questioning.

[Cheery Dog]

Players I currently don't want to lynch today:

goodmorning
implosion
Zaicon
Apozzle
PPP
Cheery Dog

and preferably someone other than NS, too

Is the bottom sentence meaning you do want to lynch NS? I'm confused by the double negatives.

[Cheery Dog]

Asked and answered, 309.

Can you allow SD to do some of his own defending? I'm losing what Cub is actually getting at when people defend others with his mass of questioning.

LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE!

I quite enjoy being white-knighted for once

....and this is about where I've read up to. Sure there's points to address further down but

going V/LA next 48 hours

because unsure when I'll get back on.

You being whiteknighted doesn't help me get a read on you or your attackers though.
(it has given me a goodmorning town read, but that's besides the point)

[Cheery Dog]

Oh, @Zai: I try to avoid going too in depth on reasoning unless nobody else sees what I am talking about. I don't want scums stealing my precious points.

How does this help?
UNVOTE: VOTE: goodmorning

[Cheery Dog]

[quote="In post 364,"Apozzle"] My post was obviously token activity to avoid a prod.

I am halfway through rereading everyone right now - I just wanted to point out an instance of how ac rolls.[/quote]
And that's therefore different from the lurking you wanted attacked for earlier?

If you're doing posts to dodge posts, what is the difference between back then and now, and why should only one have been gone after?

[Cheery Dog]

@Cheery: As Scum (especially when replacing in, but applies at all times) it's really easy to mislynch a player by thieving and refining points from a Town player against another Town player. If by some great stretch of the imagination ppp actually was Town (which he's not) I wouldn't want that to happen with my points. Stating suspicions is sufficient in my opinion.

But you then when you're right you won't get town doing it either, and the lynch won't go through.
I believe what fits here is the saying that the best defense is offense
I believe scum would rather have limited training given for mislynch wagons they join than have to work out a stance based on amother townie's points.
if scum are however stealing points, then we look for the point stealers, catch them and get them lynched.

[Cheery Dog]

Oh, fuck, deadline is in less than 2 days?
GROSS

Lynch me if you have to, I'm only VT so it's no big loss to Town, but honestly ppp is obvScum and you guys are idiots. I'll try and do the rest of the case now if you'll hold off lynching me for a bit.

I see town in this post, but the battle with GM and POPP is making the game rather unreadable in terms of everyone else, but as someone that would like to see a scum lynch day 1 (and perferrbly every othe day as well), I think I'll still unvote and hope these rivaliers don't distract tomorrow.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Apozzle

[Cheery Dog]

*cough*

But I am aware of the deadline if I need to move my vote back

[Cheery Dog]

I guess that means I better go back to GM then.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Goodmorning

I will look over Susan in the time we have before deadline though, there's a chance I may be willing to try that.

[Cheery Dog]

Susan s appearing null rather than slightly scummy after reviewing that information.

I think I'll be able to get a better read of him toomorrow when he's not arguing with people about apparent misreps that I've not even sure exist on either side of the arguments.

Deadline will force me into staying with this GM vote for now, I do need to probably review some others and will do as such during the night.

[Cheery Dog]

Roleclaim: Mason

Why did you bother doing this when people were unvoting on Apozzle's claim anyway?

I know there was an already obvious hint at it from how you asked him to claim, but scum may not have noticed it.

[Cheery Dog]

Cheery Dog
The only thing I really have to comment on is his goodmorning vote. I can't really say what's wrong with it, but it seems off. He unvotes GM in Post 453 due to a GM-town post, but soon afterwards says that he is willing to go right back on GM due to the deadline (and repeats that when he actually does move his vote back). I suppose the issue is that I have no idea why he voted for Apozzle in post 453, since his reasoning in that post no longer applied (according to his vote) soon afterwards.

Semi-Edit: I should also mention that I don't see the purpose in his questions in Post 292.

I voted Apozzle because I had thought he was also probable town and the way in which GM claimed made me think GM was town, Apozzle was my next biggest scumread, which I realise I never went into full detail of that read (and there's no point doing it now since he's confirmed mason and therefore town - but basically the stuff I was questioning him on in 378).

Apozzle's claim was even more town with how Cub asked him to claim, and I didn't feel like there was any chance of getting another lynch going through so I went back to GM as confirmed is better than supposed for looking at interactions.

If there was more time left in the day, I wouldn't have gone back to GM, but who I can't remember at this stage, I've forgotten what has happened so far.

As for my questions, is the same as most questions I ask, to help me understand people's stances and ideas they're presenting so I can get a better read.
Though why was that a semi-edit, when the other semi-edits were to do with Cub's death?

[Cheery Dog]

@HD: You've had all of night phase to catch up Any reads?

@Susan: Nah, ac's fine. Just because it's D2 doesn't make D1 disappear into the aethyr. The only D1 suspicion that should be abated now would be that directed at Apozzle.

I voted Apozzle because I had thought he was also probable town

WHAT.

VOTE: Cheery Dog

The mason flip/claim combination must have routed my typing through a different part of my brain.
It's hard to think in the past whencircumstances change your read that much.

[Cheery Dog]

Cheery Dog

The only thing I really have to comment on is his goodmorning vote. I can't really say what's wrong with it, but it seems off. He unvotes GM in Post 453 due to a GM-town post, but soon afterwards says that he is willing to go right back on GM due to the deadline (and repeats that when he actually does move his vote back). I suppose the issue is that I have no idea why he voted for Apozzle in post 453, since his reasoning in that post no longer applied (according to his vote) soon afterwards.

Let me help you. He says this:

You being whiteknighted doesn't help me get a read on you or your attackers though.
(it has given me a goodmorning town read, but that's besides the point)

A day later, BAM!:

Oh, @Zai: I try to avoid going too in depth on reasoning unless nobody else sees what I am talking about. I don't want scums stealing my precious points.

How does this help?
UNVOTE: VOTE: goodmorning

That post made me rethink through my town read on GM, claiming to be avoiding going too in depth after whiteknighting like crazy just didn't fit together and it turned scummy.

Ah, no, there's every reason for you to explain yourself and your reads. That's how we gauge whether or not you're telling the truth.

He told us we should have attacked him early because he was lurking heavily at the start of the day, he then went later to active lurking and prod-doging after we said his lurking wasn't actually that scummy.
I felt it was like he was scum laughing at us with those posts.

[Cheery Dog]

I'd save them for our final mislynch (by my count, we have at least 2 more left). A cop could clear the lurker/doc could save/claim mason/vig, maf, or SK could NK them, get them our of the way for us. Killing them now when they could be clear town later would be pointless and only harm us.

This seems counterproductive to the town wincon - why do we want to have the clears as unhelpful active lurkers? and if we can't kill them give scum an easy win come LYLO if they turn out town?
This game may have a godfather in it, so it's not as if clears by cops can even be trusted.

And look. His vote is still on Cheery right now, despite CD explaining his obvious typo.

Typo? Yeah, those "town" and "scum" keys are right next to each other.

I don't buy the glib dismissal. It was a scumslip. My vote stays where it is.

How many scum have you see post comments like mine?
How many town?

Did you even read my explanation on it?

[Cheery Dog]

I voted Apozzle because I had thought he was also probable town

How does this make sense from scum's perspective? I can't think of a scenario in which it does.

Also, do you have nothing else to say on the points made against you?

You just said Beli should have taken off her vote on since I've already explained this, and now you're joining her attack with it?

And look. His vote is still on Cheery right now, despite CD explaining his obvious typo.

How do those compute, or why did that change your mind?

Did you even read my post either?

VOTE: Edosurist

[Cheery Dog]

Emergency pre-edit while I was previewing my next post.

Cheery, that wasn't directed at you. That was directed at Beli. What are you talking about?
I haven't changed my mind. I'm voting Beli and defending you...

then mark that in your post, If I see my name being quoted, and nothing referencing it being for someone else I will assume anything under it is meant for me to respond towards.

UNVOTE:

[Cheery Dog]

I agree with Beli on this one, what the hell was that slip? Didn't even compute first time round. :S

He told us we should have attacked him early because he was lurking heavily at the start of the day, he then went later to active lurking and prod-doging after we said his lurking wasn't actually that scummy.
I felt it was like he was scum laughing at us with those posts.

See, I don't get why if this was the case, you wouldn't just post it. Does Cub even have a history of taunting as scum? That seems like a stretch too.

Vote:CheeryDog

No idea, and I also have no idea if apozzle (who I was talking about in that post) does it either, silently not since he is town here, but I haven't seen either of their scum plays.

[Cheery Dog]

Scum baiting Apozzle to give out his reads so they can sheep a conf-town.

Oh do fuck off, I'm baiting conftown to make a case on me to see if he *can*

What does town (which I believe you would answer if I asked you your alignment) benefit would having conf town making a case on the other person you would say is conf town?

[Cheery Dog]

implosion and SafetyDance are scum together. I can almost guarantee it.

and what happens if either of them flip town (and since my reads currently point that way, I'd like to see this guaratee have more behind it than apparent parroting.)

But then I also think you're faking your hunt.

VOTE: Human Destroyer

[Cheery Dog]

Cheery, in #645 you believe Belisarius to be town, yet puzzle over his request at the same time. How does this work? What's he doing then, being an anti-town town player? Since begging (baiting?) Apozzle to say something about him is a big waste of time, what's the strongest tell you have currently to afford him townie status?

So HD is faking his hunt huh? He's wasting everyone's time with a bunch of malarky? Well, you're just as guilty of wasting time if you don't explain why you think such a thing. Otherwise the vote is pure WIFOM and suss as hell. Looks more like you're picking and choosing suspects to vote for after first consulting a list of buddies to avoid voting for. Otherwise why are you questioning the logic of one player (Belisarius) sans vote and calling it a determined town read, and then voting another (HD) sans evidence and giving a fluffy scum read?

I'm not convinced Beli is town with it, if I'm phrasing stuff that way, I'm just attempting to follow where the thought process of the person is going, because I don't understand it.
If you rather, I can just point out what's wrong with it , but I like doing that in question format.

My vote has gone to HD, as I think he is doing the slow page by page stuff so that he can escape the current conversations which I suspect probably involve his partner(s).
His scumread (as I believe safety at least already mentioned) on implosion is just finding evidence to reach the read instead of the other way, I feel that is a scum behaviour when paired with ignoring most of the current content, you'll note he hasn't actually responsed to any of implosions posts today.

The difference is there is possibilty a hidden town purpose behind Beli's asking apozzle to make a case (which is why I'm asking about it) vs HD's fake hunt.
If I don't get an acceptable answer, my vote will probably move to Beli. (and no I don't know what a acceptable answer is yet, it will just have to wait and see.

[Cheery Dog]

Youknow your own alignment though, which if town means you're conftown to yourself, but since you're saying that's not the case, I guess you are getting apozzle to make a case on you in hopes he does a bad job.

VOTE: Beli

[Cheery Dog]

I've always subscribed to the "at least one, but not all scum are on most wagons" (although admittedly I've seen exceptions).

But you're going only one scum on the wagon in this instance?
There is a possibility of there being 3 mafia members, so why is it just the one likely on the wagon?

P-Edit: Except you've never seen me replace into a game, so saying I'm not matching replacement meta isn't even valid?

If I may butt in here, your replacement/catch=up style is completely different from the games I've seen you replace into. (and seeing as that was replacing into 4 at once, 3 of which I was involved in somehow, I think I might know your replace-in meta), or at least that part of it that had you rereading threads and not doing a page by page analysis.
The closest to what I've seen you do elsewhere was a "vote analysis" where you just listed all the votes that had been cast in the game, and you were scum there, so yeah.

[Cheery Dog]

People I'd like to lynch today:
NS - Obvious. Has he even done anything today? Notice he lurked like fuck but still joined the lynch d1? Alarm bells much people? If we ML twice in a row and he makes it to D3 I will rage.

And yet, no vote on NS...

Does SD's bottom part of this post you've count mean anything towards that?

[Cheery Dog]

Normal wagon trends. I subscribe to the newsletter of "on most wagons, there is at least one scum, but not all of them"

That's a long name for a ragular publication, you should get them to shrink it to something more catchy so I won't look silly getting a copy to see how big and actually useful that "most wagons" is; I'm currently thinking it's about as useful as the sentence I just wrote.

Well why give a big wall of reads if they're mostly null? There's no real point to it except to fill up the page with words and look like you're contributing, which is scummy.

Is that your opinion on all big walls of reads, or just ones that are full of nulls?

@Edosurist, are you still going to be able to post during then, because otherwise we've lost you until after deadline and I think this game needs more contributes from everybody.

[Cheery Dog]

Just from games we've played together (the two completed ones you know I played in anyway), I'll grab all the L-1 and l-0 town wagons to show my point where there was multiple scum alive (ignoring LYLO)

Spoiler: open 471

against
day 1a
LYNCHED greygnarl - Empking, Voidedmafia,

Siveure DtTrikyp

, Cheery Dog,

Rob13

day 2a
L-1 Empking - Cheery Dog, kuribo the white, Human Destroyer (also the players on the scum wagon on L-1)

in favour
day 1a
L-1 greygnarl - Lincolm, Empking, Voidedmafia,

Rob13

L-1 greygnarl - Lincolm, Empking, Voidedmafia,

Siveure DtTrikyp

day 1b
LYNCHED ThAdmiral -

Rob13

, Cheery Dog, Empking, kuribo the white, Human Destroyer

Those greygnarl wagons were the ones that did go through as well. (I did ignore rob's unvote/revote of it as the wagons never changed during that time)

Spoiler: open 474

Against
day 1
Josh Lyman (L-1): KX, Human Destroyer, NicCage,

Venrob

, Docteur Gudsight,

goodmorning

{

Jacob

intent to hammer}
(scum goodmorning was lynched here, if you include that, it was 1 scum on the wagon)
d2
Docteur Gudsight (L-1): Cheery Dog, Jennifer, Klick, KX, serrapaladin
serrapaladin (L-1): Human Destroyer, NicCage,

borkjerfkin, JacobSavage,

Docteur Gudsight
d3
Cheery Dog (L-1): ArcAngel9, Docteur Gudsight,

borkjerfkin

, Human Destroyer {

Jacob

intent to hammer}

In favour
d3
Docteur Gudsight (Lynch!): Human Destroyer,

borkjerfkin

, Jennifer, NicCage, Cheery Dog
d4
Human Destroyer (L-1): ArcAngel9, KX,

JacobSavage

Human Destroyer (Lynch!): KX,

JacobSavage

, NicCage, ArcAngel9

Those I guess Jacob's intents to hammer don't really count as neither went through

[Cheery Dog]

And your point being...?

Multiple scum alive means...? (they pretty much do whatever they want and are flexible to any given situation?)

That the theory that most major wagon have at least one scum but not all of them is just someone's idea of what should happen, or used to happen. The site's meta really doesn't support it currently.

Multiple scum as it more than 1 still alive in all the wagons I just copied from the completed games.

[Cheery Dog]

I'm not saying anything about how wagons are constructed, just that you can't use HD's theory.

I don't like wagon analyse until there's been a scum flip anyway.

[Cheery Dog]

I guess it's because I don't actually know what I'm looking for in a wagon, but I'm never confident in analysing wagons, a scumflip makes me slightly more confident in attempting to use it though.
I guess I could look since after the night I now know four people's alignments (this is myself, the dead townies and the confirmed mason for those who can't add up), but I agree that that's not enough to do it probably, especially when we don't even know how many scum are in this game. (at a guess from the setup, it's approximately 2/3rds chance of there being 3)

...And who do you think will flip scum?

My votes on Beli atm, that should be a hint to you.

and yes I also think HD might be scum, not convinced on anybody else at this stage.

[Cheery Dog]

You do realise if I was going with wagon analyse, I'd actually have posted my thoughts on the wagons from this game, I haven't quoted any of them, so whatever my "new theory" was meant to be must be pretty good if I was using it.

The whole purpose of it is that HD is still looking for slips and generic scum behaviour rather than motivations.

[Cheery Dog]

I can put you to L-1 now so you can claim now and at L-1 if you like. But I'm not actually going to put anyone to L-1 when there is a replacement coming in as I want to see contributing from them where possible.

I'd still rather ice Cheery at this point though.

Is that still just on my post from the start of the day where my fingers typed town instead of scum?

Do you have other reads?

[Cheery Dog]

I am

Town Roleblocker.

Night One I didn't block anyone because I didn't have sufficient enough reads to act upon.

Willing to be directed in the future (if I'm still alive, that is).

You should, idk, maybe scum hunt more so that you do have solid reads.

And what good is being directed going to do when there are multiple scum alive, even it there's only 2, they're still able to just have the other one kill.

[Cheery Dog]

I'd still rather ice Cheery at this point though.

Is that still just on my post from the start of the day where my fingers typed town instead of scum?

Do you have other reads?

Patience perforce with wilful choler meeting makes my flesh tremble in its different greeting
I shall withdraw, but this intrusion shall now seeming sweet convert to bitter gall

UNVOTE:

IGMEOU, though

@SD:

I but acquiesced to a NS lynch; claim notwithstanding I neither support nor oppose it, and will no longer spam up this game with a profitless defence of a player who will not consent to defend himself

So other/actual scum reads?

[Cheery Dog]

So other/actual scum reads?

I'm still using PoE, so the list of people I'm not willing to lynch constitutes my reads.

Looking forward to Susan's case, though. I've got me Spock ears all ready to go.

So you have a total of two high town reads and other 7 are null..
That's surely helpful with 11 players alive
(and for those that can count but not use logic, I've removed the "of course"s out of the equation. I believe beli only added them so the reads list looks better, and lack of scum reads shows lack of scum hunting.

PoE doesn't help when it's still relatively early game. It's an excuse to not commit to reads.

[Cheery Dog]

...Not looking forward to 33 pages of catchup, though. Only the second day and there's already more posts than the entirety of the longest game I've played

Coming in sprouting lies? I see two games you played (excluding one you replaced out of) that are longer that this (which also happen to be first two games if you're interested in where I looked), one of which you stayed the whole way in from start to finish.

I don't know how you benefit from that, but I'm watching you.

[Cheery Dog]

Something needs to happen soon anyway. Im willing to switch to HD.

Actually I can't see enough people joining I'm the beli lynch either.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: human destroyer

Also there are way too many people not contributing enough today

Hopefully Edos will get something useful in since he should be back from v/la about now.

[Cheery Dog]

I don't like Belisarius's response to the claim, or the way Cheery Dog jumped on the wagon. Given that these are my suspects from what I've read so far, I'd lay good odds at least one of them is Scum.

What is the problem with me voting my second biggest scumread when the first didn't seem to be gaining the required votes this close to deadline?
I'm happy with either beli or hd lynched and hd's changing claims doesn't convince me at ask that he should live. It doesn't fit with what he told me when I asked how he remembered all the roles from his mass of ongoings.

[Cheery Dog]

His claim unless we're facing a two-man team of ns and hd does mean scum have a roleblocker, but that's the only thing that baas changed for me.
it does add slightly to the hd = sk theory that was here last week though.

Going with mr bring right that beli and hd are scum, my reads say the third is somewhere is edo, ns. Thurthame and susan.

[Cheery Dog]

It doesn't fit with what he told me when I asked how he remembered all the roles from his mass of ongoings.

I told you how I remember my alignment, not my actual role.

You said when you actually check them, I don't see your double claim as fitting with that.
But it doen't changethe fact I was scumreaqding you beforehand either and those beliefs haven't been invalidated in my opinion.

[Cheery Dog]

Also, who's mr?

phone error.
That's meant to be me.

Did you not get up to reading the whole thread yet? I guess not, POPP told us to call him Susan.

[Cheery Dog]

He's a better lynch than Town, and more likely to get enough votes before deadline than Cheery. With less than 5 hours to go, that's enough for me.

But what if he is town?

unvote

I'm going to have to get a reread happening soon, way to maybe claims.

[Cheery Dog]

Less than 4 hours left?
I don't have time to get a good indepth read through going, guess I'll join the lynch party while attempting it.
VOTE: edo

[Cheery Dog]

@hd; just interested if you're still believing the wagon analysis you were doing earlier.
(I'm not going to reattack you on it today if you're worried about that), but does one person involved in it claiming an innocent on the other change anything?

P-edits tell me it's now twilight so I may be attacking you on it again

[Cheery Dog]

Why are you even attempting to direct night actions?

[Cheery Dog]

His wagon flopped as well

[Cheery Dog]

Also what made you protect pecan over the claimed masons?

[Cheery Dog]

ok, scratch everything i said in 932.

any one-shot cop should counterclaim tomorrow; it means NS or Beli is lying
any one-shot blocker should counterclaim tomorrow; it means Beli is lying
godfather is guaranteed unless we have two different fakeclaims including Beli

Why did the doctor claim mean that?
Besides the fact it was fake, it would have only put us to seven non-T letters. Which is possible.
We can only confirm there is a scum amognst the claims if there are more than 7.

Though there being a Godfather has been proved correct.

Actions/results from other claims?
We should have a confirmed town from either the cop or roleblocker unless one or both of them are scum.

[Cheery Dog]

I would also probably like a massclaim depending on what is claimed from massclaim.

We need to find out what is claimed from massclaim, ie before we do it, before you approve of us doing it?
I think we should massclaim after those above results/targets are given.

[Cheery Dog]

But popcorning it makes it more fun to do.

Though you probably have a point in us not needing to bother with it.

vanilla townie.

[Cheery Dog]

With that being said, I think i see your logic now...I think what we actually have is one of the following situations:
1) Beli, Nobody Special, and POPC are all town
2) Two of POPC, Beli, and Nobody Special are scum.

There's an option of only one of POPC, Beli and NS being scum.
It does depend on what the remaining two claims are though.
If they're both VTs as well, then we can confirm Beli as telling the truth, and either there's a SK hiding they're existence or one of NS/HD is lying.
If we have one more letter then everybody is still possible scum. (unless it's a 1-shot RB, in which case NS is cleared except for possibly with that person)
If we have two or more letters, then it's guaranteed that at least 1 PR claim is lying.

[Cheery Dog]

I think we had a failed gambit happen.
and then an unthinking vig?
SafetyDance was confirmed town from Beli's day 2 claim. And they couldn't have been partners due to massclaim yesterday meaning not enough letters to fill what we know was true due to the godfather flip.

What it does mean is that hd is now officially the only player that can be an sk.
And it's either two vt claims or beli (which would confirm hd town due to letters) and a vt.
I think we should therefore be looking into the vt claims (including me for everyone else) and lynch one of them today.

though I think it may be better to no lynch, if hd is an sk we need him to shoot scum tonight for town to have any chance if winning.
it would also give us one less vt most likely for us to need to look at.

VOTE: no lynch

[Cheery Dog]

ALSO CHEERY BELI GET OFF OF NO LYNCH WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU GUYS DOING

No lynch is best preformed when you're not giving scum more information :/

[Cheery Dog]

Beli needs rope. The feel I get from him is pretty much identical to my attitude in my first Scum game. The lack of scumhunting, the passive voting (including today's No Lynch vote and subsequent unvote when pressured), and 538.

That vote of me day 2 you just linked still looks horrible.
Pity yesterday happened so stupid and fast, but it would be nice to know where beli's current reads etc are.
There's still huge problems with that day 2 play, let alone the fact one of 2 people on his PoE list that can be put there due to town hunting flipped scum that day. yeah I guess I can get behind the beli lynch still., though I still think no lynch is the best option today. Scum are practically forced to kill hd and this should prove whether he is an sk or not.
If he dies then the flip confirms him.
If he doesn't then I guess it could be scum playing tricks, or he is a bulletproof sk.

[Cheery Dog]

But I'm not sure why you're assuming it can't be BMM

T

CCC.

My guess would be that's what scum want us to think, but that fact a vt died would either mean hd is bulletproof and shot to ensure a kill went through, risking a double kill or scum wanted to deal without implosion.
Which seems a odd choice to me, as he wasn't doing that much towards the end anyway.

I think it is beli and someone as the day 2 is seriously that obvious, but the remaining partner is better hidden.

[Cheery Dog]

Are you still trying to lynch be based on that one post? If you're seriously going for some attack on me in an attempt to get me lynched at least pick a post that isn't something that happens when you're not fully conversing.

[Cheery Dog]

I think we need to take some form of risk here, otherwise nothing is going to happen.

VOTE: Belisarius

[Cheery Dog]

UNVOTE:
VOTE:

I can do that as well.

Thank you for getting lynched while having correct reads.

[Cheery Dog]

VOTE: thuthame

[Cheery Dog]

I would have remained voting beli, though probably would have mentioned beli's PoE post from day 2 again.

If you haven't figured it out, HD lived due to his thurhame read, we already knew he wasn't an sk.

But yeah this game ended up a lot easier for us with pecan's death after he practically was actually confirm town due ns being on him.

I also regret going off at hd's vca, because it basically meant I couldn't do it to accidentally draw attention all the distancing we were doing as a scumteam. (votecounts, 17, 19 and 20 where I didn't get off beli sure to me noticing that it was just me and edos on the wagon)

It didn't help that safety was confirmed town due to what letters had been claimed. But it was fun waking up to a locked thread with no idea what happened.

[Cheery Dog]

A confirmed town cop is worth following usually.

[Cheery Dog]

I guess it's only fair to post this
http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/fxSYMBPkMNPvm

(seeing as Beli has summarised it anyway) If it didn't want it, don't give me links to QTs. <_<

[Cheery Dog]

No, it was to my scumbuddies.
And then me stating that I'll generally release anyway, I was just too lazy to go to quicktopic to get it earlier.

[Cheery Dog]

Putting that aside now, yeah CD, you played almost exactly like MM, which was half the reason my actual investigation was on you. I did wonder when you bussed Beli in lylo if anyone read that game.

I think how I was somehow succeeding there did influence this game and that did probably make you a bigger threat, and maybe it was somewhere in why I wanted to kill you night 2, but it was mostly to give extra towncred to Beli's claim that scum were killing off his innocent and blocking him.
I don't think I really considered you as having the final PR, probably because at the time I was going kill kill kill.
Then I realised that NS should actually confirm town with beli "blocked" and me killing.
And then during the next night after you claimed I figured you were confirmed town anyway. (but also that HD would kill you for us)

[Cheery Dog]

That's even odder when he claimed to have roleblocked you.

[Cheery Dog]

I enjoyed some of those flavour editions, take you for still taking the time to create them even though the game was over.