Open 474 - Friends and Enemies - Game Over!

Jennifer · Post Post #349 (isolation #0) » Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:38 am

Greetings, all! I look forward to playing with you.

First off, my vote goes to:

VOTE: Goodmorning

An L-1 vote when the slot has not even picked up a prod and is inactive--not lurking--does not do anything to advance the game state and reeks of scummy opportunism looking for an easy mislynch.

Also, Goodmorning is inconsistent in that she claims that she wants the day to last longer, but then lays down her weapon, voting an inactive player, rather than using that vote to put pressure on those who are here playing the game to scumhunt them.

And, Goodmorning knows that voting an inactive player does no good, as:

In post 60, goodmorning wrote:a vote on an unconfirmed will do no good as they shan't see it.

@Goodmorning

Why are you doing "no good" with your vote? You've expressed weird feelings on at least hydra and AA9 in Post 271, yet none of your subsequent posts have explored those feelings. Why not?

Jennifer · Post Post #350 (isolation #1) » Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:51 am

Also,

@Jacob

Please Explain how just 14 hours ago you had a town read on Josh, stating:

In post 315, JacobSavage wrote:To clarify my town read on Josh is based on the fact that the wagon grew so quickly. Yes they're common but they often lead by scum/driven by scum. The fact he ignores it is irrelevant.

to only 12 hours later being willing to hammer:

In post 339, JacobSavage wrote:Okay I'm willing to hammer Josh. Is that okay?

With only two short posts in between that in no way shows your evolved thinking on Josh. Why would you ever agree to lynch a town read, especially as we are nowhere near deadline?

Jennifer · Post Post #352 (isolation #2) » Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:00 am

@All

Why has no one called them out on this behavior?

Jennifer · Post Post #353 (isolation #3) » Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:01 am

In post 351, goodmorning wrote:I also (in my reads post) mentioned my weird feelings on Nic - in fact, I believe I ranked him scummier than both the hydra and AA9, yet you ignore him. Why?

You said you wanted to watch him more and that he's done little to date other than sheep, but the only comment you made on his substantive posting was that you liked it.

Jennifer · Post Post #355 (isolation #4) » Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:13 am

In post 354, goodmorning wrote:2. I said I liked one of his posts. ONE. The rest of them I don't find Townish. Please stop misrepresenting me.

How can I misrepresent what you never said? Your only comment on his substantive posting (which, yes, was Post 201) was that you liked it.
You never said that you don't find the rest of his posts townish.

In post 271, goodmorning wrote:Nic - Has posted very little, and most of that is sheeping. 201, though, I really like, so he's definitely one I'm going to be watching for further developments.

Do you think sheeping can never be town?

Jennifer · Post Post #371 (isolation #5) » Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:49 am

@Goodmorning

In post 359, goodmorning wrote:It's the implication when you rank someone third scummiest that you "don't find... [their] posts townish".

Okay, since you are insisting that your list of reads were in hard rank order, and Nic was indeed your third scummiest read..

...why are you now voting your fourth scummiest read instead of your third scummiest? Or second? (Josh/I was your scummiest read)

Also, please show me the exact posts that were made that led to you deciding to vote AA9 over your scummier reads Nik and Ven.

And another also, what do you think about the fact that two of your scum reads (Nic and Ven) were on the same wagon you were on until just recently?

@All

More votes on Goodmorning please.

Jennifer · Post Post #398 (isolation #6) » Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:01 pm

In post 391, Docteur Gudsight wrote:@Jennifer, purpose of 352 is?

Because I really wanted to know why town is letting legitimately scummy behaviors skate by without comment, while also being okay with a large wagon building on an inactive.

Given the way the wagon grew, I would bet that there is/was at least one scum on my wagon, so I looked at the subset of people voting me to see what their reasons were and to see if any popped out as making opportunistic votes. Those stood out.

Some questions for you too.

@Hydra

- Why didn't your last large wall of text discuss GM at all?
- What are your current views of GM?

p-edit
- You don't find anything odd with Jacob stating he has a town read on Josh and 12 hours later wanting to hammer his town read ending the day with little content in between, even though we still have a week left to find replacements/find scum? Explain the town motivation there. I'm missing it.

Jennifer · Post Post #450 (isolation #7) » Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:47 pm

In post 436, Docteur Gudsight wrote:Two scum reads that both happen to be the last two votes for her.

The first initial of my name is also the first initial of my predecessor's name.

Your argument is weird. You seem to be arguing:
* Town would ignore scummy behaviors if done by the last people to vote them
* Town wouldn't point out scummy behavior of more than one person at a time
* Town wouldn't try to rally people to get them to wake up and see/consider scummy behaviors

What am I missing?

Jennifer · Post Post #462 (isolation #8) » Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:52 am

In post 453, Cheery Dog wrote:Are you seriously saying that Venrob's reason to join your wagon didn't stand out?

If it stands out so much, why weren't you screaming about it earlier and trying to get people to join you on your Ven wagon for it? Despite tying Ven and I together as a scum pair and later saying Ven's Josh vote was a "wtf null vote," you never pointed out Ven's vote to people as being scummy or tried to rally people to your wagon. Why not?

There is nothing inherently scummy about bringing someone to L-1 early in the day. There is also nothing inherently scummy about voting someone you haven't made your mind up on and are trying to get a better feel for. Especially as here where the person doesn't have a strong feeling about anyone and feels 'useless' day one. His vote is null to me as a town/scum tell.

@Hydra
You're defending Jacob's unexplained, unreasoned 12-hour flip, stating 'town is ErRaTiC; ignore his behaviors that don't make sense!'
Yet, you're trying to take me for task for the order I called out suspicious behaviors (even though I called out my strongest scum read -- and voted that read -- first). No double standards please.

Also, please identify what question you're referring to here:

In post 452, Docteur Gudsight wrote:
The way you worded the jacob question
heavily implies a stronger scum read on jacob then gm and my thoughts are you were just trying to throw suspicion on jacob.

Because my only question on the initial Jacob post was:

In post 350, Jennifer wrote:Why would you ever agree to lynch a town read, especially as we are nowhere near deadline?

The question

In post 352, Jennifer wrote:@All Why has no one called
them
out on this behavior?

was about both Goodmorning's and Jacob's behavior, both of whom I had just called out only 20 minutes prior.

Jennifer · Post Post #471 (isolation #9) » Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:48 am

@KX

Will you please link me to your completed game(s) offsite that you mentioned? Thanks.

Jennifer · Post Post #476 (isolation #10) » Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:08 am

Welcome, Borkjerfkin.

Thoughts and possibly vote on Goodmorning would be appreciated.

My vote on her is because she put Josh at L-1 after he had been prodded, pages went by, and Josh never appeared again. I can't think of a town motivation for voting up an inactive slot, especially on Day 1, when we have a week left before deadline and plenty of scumhunting opportunities still.

My vote stayed on her because after our back and forth it seemed that she was not being consistent in her views of who she suspected, and I couldn't see anything in the thread that would explain the evolution of her thinking (namely shifting her vote to AA9 instead of Ven or Nic that she considered more scummy) It read more to me like scum trying to fake scumhunt than being genuine.

I did like her response yesterday though to my question about how she felt about sharing a wagon with multiple of her scum reads. And I'm considering whether I believe the rest of her responses. So the fresh eyes would definitely be appreciated.

She is claiming that she didn't realize he was inactive, but I'm still having a hard time believing that she wouldn't have noticed that, especially since she should have reviewed the thread/state of the game before placing her vote.

Jennifer · Post Post #479 (isolation #11) » Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:27 am

In post 477, borkjerfkin wrote:Did she vote Josh for something scummy or just for lurking? I'll ISO her first.

In Post 271 she mentions things about him he found scummy, the last being his unvote in Post 175. But by the time she votes for him it's post #326 and her reason was 'he's no longer at L-1, so I can vote him.'

Josh's last post was #213 (which was before she did her wall of reads and called out #175 as the last post that bothered her) so voting for him 100 posts later since his last communication and 150 posts since he did something she found suspicious just seems... either opportunistic or lazy. Definitely not pro-town.

Jennifer · Post Post #481 (isolation #12) » Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:57 am

In post 480, borkjerfkin wrote:Your tone is dichotomous in #476 -- at one point you want my support on the wagon but at another you're still trying to figure GM out?

Yeah, that's because her response last night surprised me by coming off as genuine, so I'm reassessing my read on her. That said, I'm currently still leaning scum and if others read what I noticed about her behavior and also think it's scummy, then I want the vote. Either way, it's helpful to me to vet my thinking and gut check.

Jennifer · Post Post #489 (isolation #13) » Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:58 am

@GM

* Were there any posts by Josh after #175 (his last was #213) that contributed to your scum read on him?

* If you take both Josh & my posts together, where would you place my slot now?

(While I appreciate replacements being given a chance to come in and get engaged in the game, ultimately replacements do share the same role PM as their predecessors, much like the people in a hydra do--except I can't talk to mine or know why he did what he did. So for better or worse, Josh and I are linked this game.)

* Is it correct to state that your view is that AA9's actions made her become scummier in your eyes, and that's why she moved down the list, rather than you viewing Nic and Ven doing townier things and thus moving up your list?

Jennifer · Post Post #490 (isolation #14) » Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:17 pm

@Hydra

Now you're just lying about your case. Why?

Yesterday, you claimed the question I asked that led you to think I should have had Jacob as a stronger scum lead as GM was:

@All Why has no one called them out on this behavior?

You said it was the

key post

.

Yet today, after I refuted that the question was referring only to Jacob, you're changing your tune and saying that you were focused on an entirely different question -- one you never mentioned in your case against me before. What gives?

For those who want a convenient side by side comparison (emphasis added):

In post 444, Docteur Gudsight wrote:In post 352, Jennifer wrote:

@All Why has no one called them out on this behavior?

Really that's the key post in it. The weight there sounds heavier then the gm scum read without lack of vote from her
if it's so major that it needs to be called out before.

In post 486, Docteur Gudsight wrote:You quoted the question I'm thinking of.

"would you ever agree to lynch a town read"

That's the particular word if you want to get specific on it.
The way that was said just implies you find it really unlikely to come from town and unless your gm read is stronger then it looks I'd expect a vote on jacob.

Stop tunneling and trying to force something that doesn't fit.

Jennifer · Post Post #493 (isolation #15) » Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:33 pm

@KX

Thanks for the link. I read through your game and have a better sense for you now and more of a town vibe. Would be interested to get an update from you on your scum reads/suspicions.

Jennifer · Post Post #494 (isolation #16) » Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:42 pm

@Hydra

I don't particularly care if in a parallel universe you would have voted Jacob over GM with my reads. My bigger read was on GM. GM got my vote.

Change on its own isn't inherently bad. But how the change occurs can be depending.

You read like you already know what conclusion you want and are grasping at straws to try and build a case for that conclusion, rather than like you are actually analyzing evidence that comes to light and seeing what conclusion that leads you too.

Jennifer · Post Post #503 (isolation #17) » Thu Jan 31, 2013 3:30 am

In post 498, NicCage wrote:Jennifer, What do you think of panzer?

I have a town read on him.

Jennifer · Post Post #504 (isolation #18) » Thu Jan 31, 2013 3:56 am

I've reassessed Goodmorning and still feel comfortable having my vote on her and seeing her lynched today.

For me, it's still primarily that vote on Josh.
- The Mod said in bold colored font that Josh was prodded.
- Josh already hadn't posted for awhile.
- AA9 unvotes Josh, pointing out the fact that Josh hasn't been around and is likely going to be replaced, so she wants to move her vote somewhere useful until/unless he comes back (the pro-town motivation there to being useful with her vote, puts AA9 in town category for me and not willing to see lynched today).
- AA9 also in that same post, votes for Goodmorning, pointing out her suspicion on Goodmorning for agreeing with everyone that Josh is scum but not voting Josh.
- Goodmorning quotes the part of AA9's post calling Goodmorning out for not voting her scum read and votes Josh. Goodmorning does not quote or address the other part of AA9's same, short post which discussed why AA9 was unvoting Josh.

So in essence, Goodmorning's vote on Josh looks defensive, like she was trying to avoid looking scummy like AA9 suspected.

After Goodmorning unovted Josh, she voted for AA9 in post 351.
- Goodmorning said her reason for voting AA9 instead of Venrob or Nic was because AA9's scumminess moved her down GM's list of scum reads (rather than Nic & Ven doing towny things to move up her list)
- But an ISO of AA9 and GM doesn't show much from AA9 between the time GM posted her list of reads and GM voted AA9, and in fact GM mentions in her vote for AA9 that there was no new information to evaluate AA9 on, yet later says it was AA9's actions that brought her down the list.

Goodmorning does mention in her post where she votes for Josh that AA9 "keeps ignoring facts and making up facts to suit herself, like she's not really reading the game and has already decided who is what role," but she hasn't called out Hydra lately who has done the same thing.

So I'm ready to lynch Goodmorning. I also support a lynch on Jacob or Hydra.

Jennifer · Post Post #505 (isolation #19) » Thu Jan 31, 2013 3:56 am

In post 502, Cheery Dog wrote:putting someone onto L-1 in practically the same as quickhammering someone. You don't get more opportunistic than voting a null read - which I may add is what you said you were looking for on the wagon.

We'll have to agree to disagree then. I don't think putting someone at L-1 is at all like quickhammering, and I think it is a powerful town tool, apart from (but because of) it being one of the requirements to lynch someone.

Jennifer · Post Post #506 (isolation #20) » Thu Jan 31, 2013 3:58 am

Also @All:

In a game with masons, talking about scum partners when we haven't even seen a flip is imprudent at best. Absolutely take note privately about who you think is linked, so you don't forget what you saw and can refer to it later when there is a scum flip. But until then, don't discuss partnerships with the group. Scum are certain to be masonhunting, and you don't want to help them draw connections they may not have seen.

Jennifer · Post Post #533 (isolation #21) » Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:26 pm

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Jacob

At least GM's vote on AA9 somewhat flowed from previous posts.

Jennifer · Post Post #556 (isolation #22) » Fri Feb 01, 2013 3:14 am

@Klick

Come back to us please and share your thoughts/vote!

@KX

Even if you don't have time or inclination to do a long post, can you give us a cliff notes version (vote) of where you currently stand?

Jennifer · Post Post #557 (isolation #23) » Fri Feb 01, 2013 3:15 am

[P.S. Jacob's drawing was all kinds of cool!]

Jennifer · Post Post #562 (isolation #24) » Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:02 am

@KX

* Why would you lynch me over Jacob when you've said that my actions are "Not specifically scummy, that could just be their play style, but to me, that combination is enough to eliminate the townish read;" yet you've said that Jacob's actions "seems to be harmful and inconsistent to such an extreme I find them being town unlikely." Reading that my takeaway would be that you find Jacob scummier and would lynch him first.

* If you do find me to be your scummiest read, why aren't you voting me when it wouldn't even put me at L-1 and you can change your vote at any time?

* In the game that you linked me, you were much less afraid of using your vote. Why the difference here?

Jennifer · Post Post #563 (isolation #25) » Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:02 am

@KX

* Why would you lynch me over Jacob when you've said that my actions are "Not specifically scummy, that could just be their play style, but to me, that combination is enough to eliminate the townish read;" yet you've said that Jacob's actions "seems to be harmful and inconsistent to such an extreme I find them being town unlikely." Reading that my takeaway would be that you find Jacob scummier and would lynch him first.

* If you do find me to be your scummiest read, why aren't you voting me when it wouldn't even put me at L-1 and you can change your vote at any time?

* In the game that you linked me, you were much less afraid of using your vote. Why the difference here?

Jennifer · Post Post #626 (isolation #26) » Fri Feb 01, 2013 4:22 pm

The wagon on me is ridiculous.

Doctor's reason is essentially 'I can feel what I want to feel and you can't make me not feel it, so nyah!'
Cheery Dog's reason is because I disagreed with him over whether Venrob's vote was scummy.
Nic's vote is because I disagree with him over a read of Panzer.
Jacob's vote is because of ????
KX expressed her opinion that I am the best lynch of the moment because she'd rather try to make associative tells with my flip than lynch someone who she really doubts can be town

Meanwhile, Jacob is making legit scummy moves, dodging responding to questions to justify his vote and too many people are letting him slide.
Essentially the defense on him has been:
-He's so scummy he can't be scum (an argument I hate by the way)
-His drawing is sooooo cute! (Which while it totally is, is besides the point). It's smoke & mirrors. He was asked by the Hydra to give his views on Josh/Jennifer over time, and his first drawing barely mentions Josh at all. Additionally, he alludes to finding more things he missed the first go around, which basically sounds like he's trying to find support retroactively.
And despite Jacob not addressing Hydra's question, Hydra is still defending Jacob and giving him a pass (And I don't care if it's Hydra-Els asking the questions and Hydra-M defending him.)

Seriously....

It's ridiculous that people are so wedded to their views and are just looking for confirming evidence at this point as opposed to really analyzing the situation and updating their views accordingly. It's ridiculous that people are letting Jacob's non-answers slide while trying to hold my feet to the fire over ... what? I don't even know.

Btw
Panzer is still town to me.
I agree with him that KX seems like new-town.

@Mod

Can we request a prod of Klick please? Thanks.

Jennifer · Post Post #629 (isolation #27) » Fri Feb 01, 2013 4:31 pm

In post 627, goodmorning wrote:@Jenn: What do you think about my opinion that Panzer underestimates the talents of newbScum? Since you said you agree with him...

I don't know if Panzer underestimates the talents of newbScum, but I agree with you that most people probably underestimate newbies. KX has a quote I saw in that offsite game where he said something like he is a good liar and has the ability to fake people out. So I wouldn't put it past KX to play a good scum game, but I'm just not seeing the scum here. The only thing that seems particularly odd is his hesitance to vote more here, which normally I would see as scum trying to avoid an official voting record for later vote analysis. But in this case his hesitancy actually leans town to me because he is still resisting voting even though he's been called out on it and pressured to vote. I feel like if he was scum he would have caved to remove that suspicion.

Jennifer · Post Post #643 (isolation #28) » Sat Feb 02, 2013 5:27 am

In post 638, Docteur Gudsight wrote:(yes this kind of drawing is actually a towntell)

Really? Can you show me any other game that supports this theory that drawing is a towntell?

He expressed that he doesn't like to write a lot. So it comes off as null at best that he would draw instead of write; and scummy because of the content (and lack thereof) of what he did provide.

Jennifer · Post Post #646 (isolation #29) » Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:01 am

Uh-huh.. more like you're scum who feels confident you've found a comfortable mislynch to sit on and think you no longer have to pretend to scumhunt today.

The day ends in 3 days... not a long time away (and there's also no reason to let time run to the end unnecessarily).

But are the people on my wagon even pushing to get others to vote? Calling for inactives to get in here and make their stand? Calling out people who haven't answered their questions (Jacob!) to get in here and adequately answering them? Taking them to the mat for dodging responses? NO!!

Instead, they're content to let the clock run out knowing that town won't want to no lynch and so will likely go to whichever person has the most votes at the time. And you're letting them get away with that crap.

Town if I flip:
1. Feel ashamed
2. Ask yourself why the hell you let them get away with voting me for stupid reasons and not calling them out on it
3. CALL THEM OUT ON IT AND STOP LETTING THEM GET AWAY WITH THIS CRAP.

TOWN WAKE UP AND PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT IS HAPPENING HERE! SERIOUSLY!

Jennifer · Post Post #648 (isolation #30) » Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:05 am

In post 647, Docteur Gudsight wrote:Am I supposed to call you scum repeatedly even more? I've said why multiple times.

Not so much that you should keep saying I'm scum, but that you should be getting people to cast their vote where it's useful. We have two people that haven't voted; we have HD and GM with wasted votes on Panzer and arguably wasted votes by AA9 and Panz on GM. (Of course, all votes on me are wasted, but I get that though I don't like it I'm set up as a So why aren't you engaging them and trying to get them on to a useful wagon?

Just letting time chug along without trying to get buy-in isn't a town mindset. If you're really town, you should be engaging those you think are town and trying to get buy in and listen to their counterarguments/counterviews if they present them. You're not doing that.

I've already clearly laid out my views. If I flip they can easily go back and see what I saw. Whether they listen now is a different question.

But it's hypocritical that I've responded to every scum point you've raised against me so that the only argument you're left with is 'gut' yet you don't bother to probe and demand answers from Jacob in the same way.

Jennifer · Post Post #753 (isolation #31) » Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:21 am

Ugh. (@KX His play hasn't been sucky)
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Goodmorning

Also, note that although Jacob did another about face, Hydra didn't even mention it, let alone ask followup questions.
Fake scumhunting is fake.

Jennifer · Post Post #794 (isolation #32) » Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:38 am

VOTE: Docteur Gudsight

I'm more confident that the hydra is scum with GM than anyone else thus far.

Jennifer · Post Post #825 (isolation #33) » Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:57 am

@HD
@Nic
@Serra

What are your thoughts on why Hydra is/is not scum?

Jennifer · Post Post #848 (isolation #34) » Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:08 am

@Serra

Can you point to the post(s) where you first thought GM was scum yesterday? I never got the impression that you thought she was scum, rather I got the impression you just thought she was less likely town than I was, thus preferring her lynch to mine as a compromise since you couldn't get the Jacob lynch.

Also, please answer my question here:

In post 825, Jennifer wrote:@Serra

What are your thoughts on why Hydra is/is not scum?

Jennifer · Post Post #855 (isolation #35) » Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:29 am

@AA9

Jacob is V/LA until Thursday.

What are your thoughts on Serra and Hydra?

Jennifer · Post Post #902 (isolation #36) » Wed Feb 13, 2013 6:38 am

Quick thoughts before I take off.

I agree Serra's statement that Panzer may be right while still wanting Jacob/Nic wagon is weird. I did like his response to me though. I haven't been able to closely read yet the rest of te back and forth so not sure where ultimately come out.

Jacob should be looked at once he's back tomorrow to see f he's scum or checked out town.

I'd appreciate people trying to get solid read on hydra as I lean scum but given some others' town read on hydra not sure if it's me that needs to rethink things or them.

Will try to check in before back from vacation but won't be able to do deep dive until back.

Jennifer · Post Post #1008 (isolation #37) » Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:14 am

I'm back from vacation, and will catch up later today. I loosely followed and it looks like today's lynch is among HD, Hydra or Serra, so I'll plan to focus mostly on those 3.

Jennifer · Post Post #1017 (isolation #38) » Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:30 pm

Ouch... I just checked CityElectric's last post and saw that the

day ends in 17 hours.

Nic is town to me for pointing that out.

Okay, guys, we need to get a lynch together and fast.

UNOFFICIAL VOTE COUNT:
Docteur Gudsight (L-3): Cheery Dog, Jennifer, Klick
Human Destroyer (L-4): Docteur Gudsight, KX
serrapaladin (L-3): Human Destroyer, NicCage, Bork
NicCage (L-5): serrapaladin
Jacob (L-4): Serra, Arc

Not voting (1): JacobSavage

@Jacob

Why aren't you voting anyone?

Hydra and Serra are both with the most votes at the moment. I would switch to Serra if need be to secure a lynch. Are there two others that would? Or conversely, others willing to switch to Hydra?

Jennifer · Post Post #1126 (isolation #39) » Sun Feb 24, 2013 3:56 pm

I think the remaining scum are 2 of Jacob, HD, and Hydra.

VOTE: HD

Jennifer · Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:10 pm

I've been gone for the latter half of the game because I was on vacation and the day ended shortly after I came back. Also, @HD I did NOT say that Jacob's drawing was a towntell. Hydra did, and I called BS on that.

@AA I don't want anyone to claim unless they are at L-1. Massclaim doesn't help in this game like it does others. And I'd rather scum be forced to guess whether someone is a mason and risk killing a VT (like happened last night) than know that the only conf-town are going to get killed off in the evening.

I based my scum reads on overall feel, Panzer's thoughts on scum, and POE based on town wagons and GM wagon.

Everyone had a vote when GM was lynched:

goodmorning (Lynch!):

Klick, Panzerjager, serrapaladin

, KX, ArcAngel9, Jennifer, borkjerfkin
Jennifer (L-3): Docteur Gudsight, Cheery Dog, JacobSavage, NicCage
Panzerjager (L-5): goodmorning, Human Destroyer

I don't have the strongest sense yet for which of the 3 I'm wrong on (HD, Hydra, or Jacob), but I feel that it's a pretty good chance both scum are in there.

Jennifer · Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:40 pm

In post 1163, Docteur Gudsight wrote:HD never pushed for GM.

That's one of the things I noticed as well (including that you and Jacob were absent in voting GM too.) HD was never on the GM wagon and was pushing for Panzer's lynch towards the end instead. I also have HD as my vote right now because of this vote:

In post 221, CityElectric wrote:Josh Lyman (L-2): KX, ArcAngel9, Human Destroyer, NicCage, Venrob

This is only useful for those that think I'm town, but at this point Josh is L-2. I think it's safe to assume that there is at least one scum on my wagon at this point. Of this group, I have a town read on all but HD.

Jennifer · Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:42 pm

The above said, I like how HD is engaging the game and Jacob has just been weird in all his interactions here. So I feel like I can switch to Jacob and get a better read on HD as day progresses.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Jacob

Jennifer · Post Post #1170 (isolation #43) » Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:30 pm

In post 1167, Human Destroyer wrote:
In post 1154, Human Destroyer wrote:
In post 429, JacobSavage wrote:Yes obviously, you should know.

But seriously I kind of forgot that Goodmorning was in the game...

bork I still think this is a town-tell

Jennifer, thoughts please.

I don't agree it was a town tell. There was a lot of discussion on GM in the posts leading up to it. If he was trying to figure out who scum was, he would have noticed.

In post 1168, Human Destroyer wrote:
In post 794, Jennifer wrote:VOTE: Docteur Gudsight

I'm more confident that the hydra is scum with GM than anyone else thus far.

Also what happened to this?

Two weeks. Also, I have noticed a tendency in myself to find those scummy who indicate they think me scummy, and vice versa. Hydra-Mehdi was attacking me quite a bit at the beginning, which I'm concerned has clouded my read on the slot. I can't bring myself to completely let go, so I am exploring new avenues while letting Hydra percolate in the back of my head.

@HD What makes you suspicious of Cheery?

Jennifer · Post Post #1172 (isolation #44) » Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:40 pm

Yeah.. I haven't notice anything that makes me suspect him.

I've been trying to go over the Klick posts to see if there is reason she was killed, but nothing concrete jumps out and I'm wifoming myself in circles. She has some read lists but nothing that has me see one suspect per another.

Jennifer · Post Post #1174 (isolation #45) » Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:51 pm

:p ... I noticed that!! Okay, going to have a glass of wine and hope that the wine + read through brings about more clarity than I currently have.

Jennifer · Post Post #1177 (isolation #46) » Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:59 pm

Sorry Klick! I have it straight now.

Jennifer · Post Post #1192 (isolation #47) » Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:41 am

@Cheery
Hmm. It was that post of AA9 that made me think she was town (unvoting someone who was inactive, as opposed to lurking), but you're right that Josh was at L-1 until she unvoted and GM was voting Ven who GM had listed as her scummiest read.

@AA9 What made you suspicious of GM not voting for Josh when she had a vote on Ven?

Jennifer · Post Post #1217 (isolation #48) » Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:37 am

I'm largely convinced AA9 is town.

I've gone through Cherry's ISO. He hasn't been on radar, and with 3 scum suspects already for the 2 remaining scum slots I'm finding it hard to analyze him as a possible scum. But here is what I've noticed that it would be useful for comment/reactions:

I noticed that Day 1 Cherry seemed to push Josh's lynch pretty hard and he asked the group if there was anyone who didn't have a scum read on Josh. When I first read that question, it came across to me as someone trying to secure a lynch by getting the votes, but upon further reflection it could be a subtle attempt to try and figure out who the masons are.

Cutting against that though, making me lean town is where Cherry commented that while he didn't like the speed with which the GM wagon grew (like he said he was a bit concerned with the speed the Josh wagon grew) he was okay with it because he was already leaning scum on GM. Seems like if he was partners with GM then he wouldn't be okay with the speed and would try to get people to hold off the wagon for it.

Also cutting in favor of Cherry being town is his comment Day 2 going back and reanalyzing the wagons and strength of them. (eg post 789),although I don't like how he calls Jacob town because I haven't seen anything that justifies a town read on Jacob.

Cutting towards him being scum is that he latches on to HD's case on Serra and puts forth a Serra-scum case. While town is wrong many times, pushing for a Josh lynch day 1 (which I know to be a mislynch) and Serra day 2 (which we all know is a mislynch) does make him suspicious, as scum would want to mislynch too. And it bothers me that he's still calling Jacob town there (Which he later changes to vote Jacob the next day).

So... in summary...

Reactions?

Jennifer · Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:34 am

I'd feel more comfortable lynching Jacob than Cherry for sure.

Jennifer · Post Post #1221 (isolation #50) » Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:21 am

UNOFFICIAL VOTE COUNT:
--------------------------------------
JacobSavage (L-4): Jennifer
ArcAngel9 (L-4): Cheery Dog
CheeryDog (L-1): ArcAngel9, Docteur Gudsight, borkjerfkin, Human Destroyer

Not voting (4): KX, JacobSavage, NicCage

With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch.
KX will be V/LA until 27-02

---------------------------------------

Guys, everyone needs to UNVOTE CHEERY

.

@MOD: Will you please prod NicCage and courtesy prod KX (who I think is back from V/LA now?)

NicCage has been active on site but not here…Based on that and his previous voting history, I think he has to go into my consideration pile.

Jennifer · Post Post #1224 (isolation #51) » Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:47 am

@AA9 Because he soft-claimed mason.
@HD Yes please.

Jennifer · Post Post #1228 (isolation #52) » Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:32 am

Blargh. I'll feel stupid if that wasn't the intent... I just didn't see how it could be taken any other way. Since it's out there, I guess I'll just ask.

@Cheery Are you claiming mason?

@HD Yeah, I agree with you that Nic's post you quoted was very townish. The cynic in me wonders if he added that to get town cred, but it's not likely I suppose. I've also removed you from my scum list.

Jennifer · Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:30 am

@Jacob I'll point out what I noticed once we hear from Cheery.

Jennifer · Post Post #1251 (isolation #54) » Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:29 am

Sorry, Cheery. But you were L-1 and your claim was so blatant to me that I thought it had to be to others as well (though apparently not..), and I was worried about scum coming in after your post and hammering before townies could unvote you. While I would rather only VTs be killed at night, I'd rather have a mason nightkilled than lynched.

Jacob now reads town to me as he could have hammered and chose not to (same with Nic and KX).
UNVOTE:

Cheery Dog (L-1): ArcAngel9, Docteur Gudsight, borkjerfkin, Human Destroyer

^This was who was on his train (possibly two which would explain lack of hammer). At least one scum must be on his train. I don't think it's Bork, and I'm leaning town now on HD as he seems pretty relaxed and not shying away from interaction. I would have said that I don't think it's AA9 but she is still voting Cheery.... :/

@AA9

Why is your vote still on Cheery?

VOTE: Doc

L-2

@Cheery Also think about when it makes the most sense for your partner to reveal. The benefits of doing it today are that we would have two conf town, they can't kill both of you tonight, which also gives us one conf town for tomorrow. Also, it removes the odds tomorrow of scum claiming to be your partner. I tried to do the math of worse case scenario and tomorrow is MYLO if we mislynch today. But, I leave it to you.

UNOFFICIAL VOTE COUNT
------------------------
Cheery Dog (L-4): ArcAngel9,
JacobSavage (L-4): Cheery
Docteur Gudsight (L-2): Human Destroyer, brokjerfkin, Jennifer
Human Destroyer (L-3): Docteur Gudsight, JacobSavage

Not voting (3): KX, NicCage

Jennifer · Post Post #1254 (isolation #55) » Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:31 am

In post 1252, ArcAngel9 wrote:Becuz, At this moment I still feel Cheery more scummy than anyone!!

Can you walk me through your thought process please? Because regardless of what you think of his play, he has claimed mason. And no one has counterclaimed him. If he was scum, at least one of the remaining masons would claim (doesn't make sense not to imo) and we'd be guaranteed a scum flip by tomorrow's lynch at the latest, assuming we guessed wrong on who was believable today.

Jennifer · Post Post #1256 (isolation #56) » Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:32 am

In post 1241, Cheery Dog wrote:Which you now have, as it was indeed a softclaim as I am a Mason.

Also, given he's the likely nightkill if town, why would you then try to lynch him today? If you're wrong, you've helped scum kill a mason. If you're right, he won't die tonight and will face serious pressure tomorrow. Not seeing the upside to keeping your vote on him.

Either way, if you could vote for someone else (instead of/in addition to Cheery), who would it be on?

Jennifer · Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:00 am

In post 1257, Human Destroyer wrote:By my calculations, it takes 2 mislynches to get us to LYLO; because of the way the setup works, we should never reach MYLO unless we NL, which is silly.

You're right. Looks like scum win Day 6 if all goes wrong. Just wrote it out below.. I had tried to figure it out on paper using shorthand and got confused (I suck at math).

Here is worse-case scenario:

9 alive, 5 to lynch, 2 scum remain. [D3, TODAY]
- mislynch
8 alive, 2 scum remain
- night kill
7 alive, 4 to lynch, 2 scum remain [D4]
- mislynch
6 alive, 2 scum remain
- night kill
5 alive, 3 to lynch, 2 scum remain [D5] <-- Have to be very careful because 1 wrong vote by a townie and scum can hammer the win
- mislynch
4 alive, 2 scum remain
- night kill
3 alive, 2 scum remain [D6]
- SCUM WIN

Jennifer · Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:01 am

@AA9 Why isn't your vote on Jacob then? It's still sitting on Cheery.

I don't want to lynch Jacob today, as I now have a town feel about him for not voting Cheery.

If we can't get a Doc lynch, I'd consider AA9. She's moved up my list past Jacob and HD (both of whom I now lean town).

Jennifer · Sat Mar 02, 2013 12:01 pm

In post 1272, ArcAngel9 wrote:how irony is that yesterday that you convinced heavily that i am town now all of sudden you want to lynch me?
Why?

the only reason i didn't unvote cherry, i haven't made my mind in voting jacob yet, i am still discussing through it and my vote on cherry is not doing any damage to anyone, what surprises how quickly your thought process changed.

Yesterday you weren't trying to lynch a non-cc mason and refusing to put your vote somewhere useful. I'm suspicious when people don't place a vote that matches what they're saying. It makes me think you're trying to avoid your stated opinion being recorded on the official Vote Count and relying on people's tendencies to have a short-term memory.

You voting Jacob wouldn't even put him at L-1 so there's literally no reason not to vote him if he's your top lynch target for the day.

@MOD: I think Nic's vote is now on Jacob, not Cheery.

Jennifer · Post Post #1285 (isolation #60) » Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:06 am

@KX When do you expect to be able to post thoughts on the current status of the game?

Jennifer · Post Post #1286 (isolation #61) » Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:06 am

Colorized note to self for next break:

Spoiler:

Jennifer · Post Post #1288 (isolation #62) » Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:27 am

Updated to correct errors

Spoiler:

Jennifer · Post Post #1290 (isolation #63) » Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:42 am

@Arc Do you have a preference between Jacob and Doc?

Based on the VCA, I think one of Arc or KX is scum and one of Jacob and Doc.

Here is the vote count from the GM lynch:

goodmorning (Lynch!): Klick, Panzerjager, serrapaladin, KX, ArcAngel9, Jennifer, borkjerfkin
Votecount 1.14

goodmorning (Lynch!): Klick, Panzerjager, serrapaladin, KX, ArcAngel9, Jennifer, borkjerfkin
Jennifer (L-3): Docteur Gudsight, Cheery Dog, JacobSavage, NicCage
Panzerjager (L-5): goodmorning, Human Destroyer

- I would expect at least one scum to be on the lynch train to try and get town cred, which for me leave KX, Arc, and Bork. I have a pretty good town read on Bork, so it's either KX or Arc.
- Goodmorning is already on Panz, so I think this clears HD, as I wouldn't expect both scum to still sit there.
- On my train is Cheery (conf town), Doc, Jacob, and Nic. I have a town read on Nic, so again leaves Doc or Jacob.

Here is the Serra lynch:

serrapaladin (Lynch!): Human Destroyer, NicCage, borkjerfkin, JacobSavage, Docteur Gudsight, ArcAngel9
Docteur Gudsight (L-1): Cheery Dog, Jennifer, Klick, KX, serrapaladin

- All known town is on Doc (for me, everyone but KX is conf town). Assuming one scum would want to be off the mislynch, that would make KX scum.
- I would also assume at least one scum on the Serra train.

Jennifer · Post Post #1292 (isolation #64) » Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:55 am

I wanted to see all vote counts and no subjective coloring (which is why I didn't color myself green so that others could use this too).

Jennifer · Post Post #1295 (isolation #65) » Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:06 am

@AA9

why do you want to vote doc over Jacob?

Jennifer · Post Post #1298 (isolation #66) » Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:29 am

Soo... you're content to let your vote waste away?

Jennifer · Post Post #1307 (isolation #67) » Tue Mar 05, 2013 5:11 am

In post 1304, Docteur Gudsight wrote:Can anyone that sees HD as town explain why?

For me it was the ease with which he spoke with me and was willing to interact, even when he knew I was suspicious of him, plus the vote count analysis. He's now probtown in my mind.

Jennifer · Post Post #1314 (isolation #68) » Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:24 pm

I could see a Doc/KX team, but I think we should go Doc first.

Jennifer · Post Post #1326 (isolation #69) » Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:29 am

In post 1325, Cheery Dog wrote:
In post 1314, Jennifer wrote:I could see a Doc/KX team, but I think we should go Doc first.

Wait you think the lynching wagon was all town on day 2?

No, Doc voted to lynch Serra.

Jennifer · Post Post #1328 (isolation #70) » Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:45 am

Suspense is killing my concentration at work!

Jennifer · Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:41 am

VOTE: KX

KX has to be scum. I don't think that both scum would have been on the Serra mislynch and KX is the only non-conf town on the alternate Doc wagon (obv I'm not conf yet to the rest of you.) Add to that how KX has been keeping off the radar.

Jennifer · Post Post #1346 (isolation #72) » Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:35 am

I went through the votes again, updating for Doc's alignment.

KX and Jacob are my two strongest scum reads, but I have more confidence in KX.

In addition to the Serra lynch, look at:
Votecount 2.5

Docteur Gudsight (L-3): Cheery Dog, Jennifer, Klick
Human Destroyer (L-4): Docteur Gudsight, KX

Votecount 2.6

Docteur Gudsight (L-2): Cheery Dog, Jennifer, Klick, KX
Human Destroyer (L-5): Docteur Gudsight

In 2.5 only town is voting for Doc. In 2.6 KX leaves the wagon on HD that isn't going anywhere and joins a viable mislynch.

Also, HD is not our lynch today. I don't think he's scum, and I think the majority feel that way as well.

@KX

What's your read on Jacob and why?

@Jacob

What's your read on KX and why?

Jennifer · Post Post #1352 (isolation #73) » Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:42 am

In post 1348, borkjerfkin wrote:I hate this sort of VCA:

1) it's cherry picked to support your point.
2) you're using yourself, an unflipped entity, as conftown in it.
3) you're suggesting that leaving a stalled wagon in favor of another is some kind of scumtell.

p-edit: @AA: seriously please read my posts jesus.

I totally get that I'm not conf town except to scum, but regardless, I am conf town to myself and that definitely impacts my vote, just as knowing your alignment impacts your own. I'm just explaining where my head is at.

@KX It's useless WIFOM to get into a debate about why scum wouldn't likely vote as a block. Is it possible? Yes, of course. Is it likely? No, not in my opinion. The typical scenario I would expect to see would be bussing or separate wagons. Also, our reads are exact opposites right now. HD and Bork are the two people that I would not be willing to lynch today.

Jennifer · Post Post #1355 (isolation #74) » Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:48 am

Updated

Spoiler:

UNOFFICIAL COUNT FOR DAY FOUR
Human Destroyer (L-2): ArcAngel9, KX
KX (L-3): Jennifer
Jacob (L-3): borkjerfkin

Jennifer · Post Post #1360 (isolation #75) » Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:41 pm

@KX what makes you suspect Bork as HD's partner? And what makes you think Bork isn't scum if HD isn't?

Jennifer · Post Post #1363 (isolation #76) » Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:07 am

@KX I have.. perhaps more than you. Why are your arguments on HD/Bork only from Day 1 and only involving Venrob? Have you seen any interaction between HD and Bork himself that make you think they are either both scum or both town? (If so, what) Do you think that Bork himself has been scummy? (If so, what) Also, HD lynch isn't going to happen. Willing to vote Jacob?

@Mod May we get a prod on Jacob please?

Jennifer · Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:39 am

Nic and AA9 have been so quiet... and Jacob obviously who has yet to make an appearance. Feels like just the 4 of us are left. I guess you're right about the possibility of a HD lynch. I had forgotten Nic's reads today. But I think it would be a bad lynch.

It seems like you're not the lynch today either.

[unvote[/unvote]
VOTE: Jacob

Jennifer · Post Post #1375 (isolation #78) » Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:24 am

@Nic

In post 1340, NicCage wrote:I think it's out of bork, HD, and Jacob. It's probably not bork though, I just can't rule him out. KX has seemed weird lately, but I expect him to come back and redeem himself.

In post 1373, NicCage wrote:
I absolutely will not vote KX today. I reread him and he still seems town to me. Seems like Jacob is getting attention as a compromise vote, though I'm not interested until we get a little more information or until I get off my ass and read a little more.

These thoughts appear incongruous to me:
- In the first post you're indicating that your top two suspects are HD and Jacob.
- HD is now at L-1 and Jacob is a strong second place contender for today's lynch.
- But now you're indicating that you're not willing to compromise with the group on lynching your scum read Jacob yet, and you're also silent on the fact that your other scum read is almost dead.

Explain your thought process please?

Jennifer · Post Post #1376 (isolation #79) » Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:43 am

Guys... can you read through Nic's ISO please and let me know if his progression of reads make sense to you? Looking at it now, it's not feeling natural to me. I had given him town points because he reminded us that time was running out and we was willing to switch to someone else to secure a lynch, but looking at that now scum would have been willing to do that too because both potential lynches for the day were town (Doc and Serra).

A game of mine recently ended and I found out that the person I was least willing to lynch was in fact the remaining scum, so I'm looking everything over now to not repeat that mistake. My thought du jour is Nic/Jacob.

Jennifer · Post Post #1378 (isolation #80) » Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:17 am

@Mod

My vote has moved to Jacob. Thanks!

Jennifer · Post Post #1381 (isolation #81) » Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:35 am

@Mod Yay thanks!

I don't understand why HD would ignore this game when he's L-1.

Arc, What do you think about Nic and the concerns I raised?

Jennifer · Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:25 pm

I'm just not seeing HD as scum.

Today has been crazy for me but once I've gotten some test I'll point out the things I saw in Nic's ISO that seem a bit off to me.

I wish I had better reads. About the only thing I can say with relative certainty is that Bork is not scum with Nic (but that doesn't add much because I don't think Bork is scum at all).

Jennifer · Post Post #1419 (isolation #83) » Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:05 am

We still have

nine days

before lynch:

In post 1377, CityElectric wrote:
It's now day 4. With 7 alive, it's 4 to lynch. Day 4 ends in (expired on 2013-03-24 21:00:00).

OKAY TOWNIES... I know fatigue is sitting in

... it's so tempting to just give in and end the day because we want to move on. But that's what scum want. We need to

grab a pot of coffee

, go through the game again, and decide what the best action plan is.

MY ASK:

Please read and consider the following on Nic. I went through his ISO to identify what was bugging me, and I distilled it down as much as possible. Input would be appreciated so I can figure out this slot, which will let me figure out the rest better too.

The thing that bothers me is that Nic's shift in reads don't feel natural. For example,
- He said Josh and Venrob were equally scummy. But then when he decides his reasoning for voting Josh was invalid, he doesn't vote Venrob even though he still attacks him. He also doesn't vote Jacob who he voiced some concerns with.
- He puts his vote back on Josh slot says case against Josh was good (err? he earlier said his case wasn't valid because since Josh replaced out clearly he wasn't actively ignoring.) Sheeps HD's case.
- The next thing that bugs me is that even though early on he keeps saying Venrob is scummy, he never votes Venrob/Bork; he never asks people about Venrob/Bork (even though he asks people about other scummy candidates) [And so help me... makes me worry about a Nic/Bork team, but I don't want to be that paranoid.

)
- says he wants to lynch Jacob more than anyone at one point, but he only briefly votes Jacob and never explains his switch. And doesn't vote Jacob now either which is weird)

For me I've decided I am willing to vote Jacob or Nic today. I won't vote HD, Arc, or Bork today, and likely won't go back to KX.

Jumbled mess of notes on ISO:

Spoiler:

Jennifer · Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:07 am

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Nic

I'm still willing to vote Jacob, but I think Nic is scum and we can get consensus on his lynch.

Jennifer · Post Post #1445 (isolation #85) » Mon Mar 18, 2013 1:13 am

@Nic Say we flip you today. What do you want us to look at/consider tomorrow?

Jennifer · Post Post #1472 (isolation #86) » Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:16 am

In post 1466, Human Destroyer wrote:That's the second time ever I've gotten mislynched.

This is saddening

I'll do my best to make sure we nail one tomorrow!

Jennifer · Post Post #1476 (isolation #87) » Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:29 am

If town had a switcheroo power to make masons scum and scums masons... we win.

I was convinced that Bork was the last mason, so I pretty much read him as conf town yestserday. I'll need to go back and read with the new knowledge that he's not, but currently I still have him as strong town.

I still believe that Nic is scum, but I'm not voting yet until we have a chance to discuss and see what other relevant information we can learn, as we can't afford to mislynch.

Jennifer · Post Post #1481 (isolation #88) » Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:25 am

Yeah, I did think you were, Bork.

Re: HD's flip. I got into the twilight conversation late after a lot of back and forth already happened, and HD said to relax that he was town. I don't see why scum would mess with people's heads for multiple posts like that after already being killed, and I already had a town read on HD, so I had no reason to think he was lying.

I went through KX's ISO but didn't see anything that looks like it will help much today. Current gut says scum team is Nic/Jacob, but I'm starting to lean a bit more on Jacobscum because Nic's here sharing specific thoughts on game/players.

Jennifer · Wed Mar 20, 2013 11:04 am

In post 1483, borkjerfkin wrote:
Nic's what my mind is telling me just due to his bad explanations for read changes, but I have a gut warning bell about Jennifer that is harder to pin down -- she seems to blend in and pop out at important times and I seriously don't see at all why she'd have honestly thought I was a mason. Jacob could be scum with anyone or just horribly uninterested town because he never fucking posts; I wish we'd gotten rid of him earlier like I'd wanted.

I'm not sure how to get you comfortable. There's nothing concrete I can point to as to the turning point that made me think you were the last mason. It was just a feeling. I think it's from Cheery saying that he trusted his remaining partner to handle his reads, and you come across as very competent and someone that Cheery would be able to trust. And I think the time you're thinking that I faded away was when I was on V/LA and the day ended right as I got back, so there was a period where I was quiet for about a week and a half from timing.

In post 1486, ArcAngel9 wrote:I am going to be pissed if Jen is the scum.

No worries, I won't be pissing you off.

In post 1484, JacobSavage wrote:Yeah I think I'm going to have to reread... I was so sure HD was going to flip scum.
Of my reads from town to scum:

AA
Jen
Nic
Bork (I still think he's scum but I'm probably wrong here)

Let us know whether your reread gives you this same list. My gut still says Nic from this list.

Jennifer · Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:23 am

In post 1501, ArcAngel9 wrote:Let me try this..
VOTE: Niccage

You must be reading my mind because I was JUST about to do that!

Jennifer · Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:25 am

Okay, I hope we're right.... and I really hope you're town with me (I think you are...)

VOTE: Nic

Jennifer · Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:26 am

Jennifer · Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:28 am

Psh.

I'm leaving my vote.

Jennifer · Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:31 am

I was going through the vote analyses and ISOs, decided that Nic is probably best bet for today, and I'm not sure what else I need that will help make a call.
So, I get ready to vote him and saw Arc did.

But she's only teasing.

Regardless, I think Nic is the best call. I'm still waffling a bit, but if I had to call the next scum I think it would be Bork. Jacob has read town a lot more to me lately.

Jennifer · Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:34 am

In post 1512, JacobSavage wrote:I want to vote nick or Bork (as I previously stated) but I really dont want to make any easier for scum to win this.

Let's vote Nic!

Jennifer · Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:41 am

In post 1515, JacobSavage wrote:What do you think of Arc Jen?

Honestly, this game has been messing with head too much. I think everyone left has at some point been on my scum list. But, I think of everyone left, Arc is probably the towniest to me (now watch her laugh with her scumsmug 'I'll be pissed if you are scum, Jennifer')

But, Arc was one of the first to vote GM and stay on that vote. And I think that although she kept wanting to vote Cheery after the masonclaim, that I don't think scum would likely be brazen enough to say that and still vote.

The reason for maybe Borkscum is that there was something when I went through Nic's ISO that made me wonder if the two could be a pair. And now that I know he's not a mason, it's more suspect to me.

p-edit wait... I just saw we had a hammer... to be continued

p-p-edit gahhhhhh

Jennifer · Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:43 am

Ack... sorry, town.

Good game scum..

Jennifer · Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:46 am

Yeah... I have never felt as uncertain about EVERYBODY as I did this game. It was awful, lol. I shouldn't have let Jacob get away with the lack of explanation on the vote shift on me D1 after his drawing. But he was able to lurk that away a bit and put enough distance. And then today I think it was the open questioning/being involved that had me give him a town read.

You, Bork, were conf-town in my head yesterday and it was hard to pull away from that, so although I started to suspect you today, I never would have been willing to actually vote you today.

Jennifer · Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:47 am

Mind sharing qt, btw?

Jennifer · Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:52 am

Thanks. Anyway, good game. You guys deserved the win! Especially the way you guys carried through after being down D1.

I wish I hadn't pointed out Cheery's softclaim.. ideally I wanted scum to think I was a mason so we'd go into LYLO with some confirmed town, but alas...

p-edit Yeah, me too.

Jennifer · Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:09 am

In post 1540, ArcAngel9 wrote:why do you think i unvoted right after you voted me.. i didn't want scum team jump and secure their win.

Unfortunately I wasn't even aware Jacob had voted until I saw that Jacob -and- Bork had voted. (I was in the middle of writing a response to Jacob's post on my opinion on you when I saw)

But yeah...

Jennifer · Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:13 am

I'm going to be highly suspicious if I play with Goodmorning again... :p she was scum here, and was a SK in another game I just played with her (where she won!)

Jennifer · Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:14 am

Thanks for modding, CityElectric! Fun game.

Jennifer · Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:33 am

Thanks for the sharing the QT. I'm impressed, Bork, that you were able to pick up on the mason team combo so early (I know you thought I was one possibility, but the other possibility you considered was dead on!) Great planning and communication on both your parts! Was fun to read.

Originally I was planning to have both Nic and Jacob place a vote before me... wish I had, heh.