Open 498: Fire and Ice Mafia (Game Over)

[Dreams of Grandeur]

malawagon? ewwwww

[Dreams of Grandeur]

Vote: Morton

I guess this vote feels the shittiest of all the ones in thread so far.

[Dreams of Grandeur]

Vote: uctriton

i hate you

[Dreams of Grandeur]

everybody bullies me when i mess up
GUESS THAT'S WHY I'M SO GOOD

[Dreams of Grandeur]

jk <3
i really need sleep

[Dreams of Grandeur]

Vote: Broseidon

[Dreams of Grandeur]

Nope. I have yet to be scum in

this

setup.

@Peng:

With love check your inbox. <3

I think Mala is town from the way that she used her wagon as an avenue of questioning. She's also loose and cheeky, which are good signs for early game.

VOTE: Cheery Dog

Just to see if he is still cheery after he gets a vote

Congrats you're now a town read I'll suspect at some point.

Cheery is town for this observation because I definitely shared it. I'd like to say that hawk is town too, but I'll probably suspect him at some point.

No idea who any of you are

except for

Vote: Malakittens

and guile I think you were in the terribad Kingmaker setup

Subtle, but "I don't know anyone" is definitely more of a town mindset than a scum mindset. It's more town to feel completely alone than scum who obviously have partners.

jumping on the wagon at 3 looks worse than at 2? though at 4 looks even sillier.

This happened to me in that last game and I went into a bit of a meltdown.

This read genuine to me, and is a damn good excuse if he's scum; "I didn't want to start bandwagonning early because I'm avoiding another meltdown" shows a conscious town mindet since scum would love to cause a meltdown and have the town close in on someone.

[Dreams of Grandeur]

6 townreads including me, probability of finding scum with a random vote: 66.66666%, assuming no mistakes.
With 1 mistake, 3 scum in a pool of 6 is still 50%
Add a small bonus for being amused by the flavor, and I'm fairly confident we have scum on their hands.
If not, I'm fairly confident that I can recognize BRO's towngame, meaning my next vote with have an 80% chance of hitting scum with no mistakes, 60% chance with one mistake.

I love this vote.

[Dreams of Grandeur]

Baroo? What makes you confident that you can read my town game?

I'm half of a hydra of Nacho and Mantisdreamz. We played that newbie game together, surprise.

I can say right now he's leaning like the newbie game which I detested his super jumpy sheepy style.

He's not there yet.

Dry-Fit votes are fine.

[Dreams of Grandeur]

I think it would make sense for guille to want me dead in this game, and putting early pressure on me can lead to that happening, if I handle it badly. The reason guille would want me dead is that he knows that not only am I experienced in this setup, but that I believe scum should always try to hit members of the opposing scumteam with the nightkill. This means that guille would consider me a major threat if I end up being on the opposite scumteam.

Actually, I think guille was just right.

[Dreams of Grandeur]

Vote: Dry-Fit

[Dreams of Grandeur]

still got my eyes on you BRO

[Dreams of Grandeur]

Vote: Dry-Fit

i like this vote

[Dreams of Grandeur]

also agree with Mala = town.. i can't see that view swtiching

[Dreams of Grandeur]

VOTE: Dry-Fit

Random Vote

wondering about this a little

[Dreams of Grandeur]

UNVOTE: dry fit
VOTE: commando

there does look like a little forced concern there, about quick hammers

[Dreams of Grandeur]

What do you guys think of hawk? Do his concerns look more or less forced than commando's?

actually.. i didn't catch that the first time. they both sort of state that quickhammer concern.... which could be like, acting the over-concerned townie ie. scum.

hawk's initial vote didn't bug me as much as commando's stating his random vote.


as well as mala, i think i'm liking cheery dog for town.

[Dreams of Grandeur]

hmm...though now that i'm looking at hawk's last post, it seems kinda bad. :s the 'i was thinking the same thing!' part :s

[Dreams of Grandeur]

UNVOTE: commando
VOTE: hawk

nacho, whatdoya think?

[Dreams of Grandeur]

why say that cheery? kind of removes the whole pressure thing, on commando, if that's what you were aiming for

[Dreams of Grandeur]

what are *your* thoughts on hawk?

[Dreams of Grandeur]

i don't think i'd go as far to say prob-town

[Dreams of Grandeur]

UNVOTE: commando
VOTE: hawk

nacho, whatdoya think?

I'll let you work.

[Dreams of Grandeur]

After reading through my previous two games with Dry-Fit. I don't think he is the right lynch today. I'll know more the more he posts.

i think i agree with you on that. just because he stuck himself out there with the logic behind his lynch voting you. it doesn't seem careful enough, for scum.


hawk - now where are you likely to put your vote??

[Dreams of Grandeur]

I was thinking the same thing! I can already tell you that three pages in and I don't have reads on anyone except Dry-fit for his attempt to make guille look scum, but I don't want to put him at L-1 just in case someone quickhammers on accident

Specifically, what happened to this?

[Dreams of Grandeur]

XKamikazex [L-6]: XKamikazex

This isn't right.

Fixed, thanks!

[Dreams of Grandeur]

DoG, you seem incredibly keen to lead the charge on everyone. this your usual style?

yup.

[Dreams of Grandeur]

Busy until tomorrow

[Dreams of Grandeur]

So not sure if I'm liking the current new vote on Dry. Seems like he just slapped a vote down.. Did you read Guille's response?

no me neither.


also dry fit - what are your thoughts on guille now?

[Dreams of Grandeur]

welcome to the game, new people

[Dreams of Grandeur]

hey mala


you are town, i am hoping this game, right ?

[Dreams of Grandeur]

mort's 'burn the witch' kinda seems like a town thing to me

[Dreams of Grandeur]

Hi!

I'm pretty busy right now and I don't know when I will have time to contribute. Hopefully sometime (or what's left of) today

also, you were my number one suspect, so i look forward to what you think

[Dreams of Grandeur]

heh, thanks. in fact, this game already seems a lot more active early doors than the past two I've played

I love Boro's flipping on me. The not picking up on us being a hydra felt pretty genuine too; I think he'd see our play as an opportunity to attack us as scum but the weirdness didn't have an immediate response but I didn't seem that scummy so he's just like "what the fuck is going on".

Dreams of Grandeur made a good wall post and now that it's Nacho, people are all up on that ....including me >_>

You not giving me the usual shit is a scumtell for you.

Everyone likes Mala because everyone is buddies with her because she makes you cookies in real life idk. Null on anything written so far; her character/playstyle is too confirmation biased to be objective.

It's also town.

I believe Utc is town. Your play is different from the last few scum games I have played with you.

Could you chat about that a little bit?

Uh huh.

I'm good with my vote on you and enjoy others on it also.

I see it as trolling and I have no idea whether it's town or not.
I want to save that lynch for later if possible.

Dreams of Grandeur is looking town.

Why?

I'm also seeing a difference in Bro. Watch out for him please.

Can we just lynch him instead?

Such as Nacho's biggest suspect is Bro

Nowhere does Nacho state this. He states that he can read my towngame well and that he has his eye on me. Why the misrep?

Nope you're a very strong scumread and I would love to lynch you.

[Dreams of Grandeur]

I think I want to talk with Mantis about scumreads, then I want to make cases, then I'm going to aggressively push the fuck out of whoever the hell.

[Dreams of Grandeur]

I don't like Bro's 182.

I will reread and townflail now. Just gave me a bad vibe such as it will be faked.

I actually really liked it because it was super fucking confident.
Nacho likes confidence.

Also I know how to tell Mantis from Nacho, but that's only because I have played games with them both before.

I tend to catchup wall, make snarky comments in singular posts, talk a lotta shit and sound super confident. Mantis finds things that she finds scummy, asks "why?" a lot, prefers to cozy up with players and getting a feel for them before moving. Mantis might be super nice and sign her posts, but I probably won't be super nice
ESPECIALLY if I can see what you're finding scummy from my posts that you think are Mantis. ESPECIALLY.

[Dreams of Grandeur]

sorry, confusing BRO and DOG there. it's early on Monday morning

i keep getting called dog and i get confused as shit because bro's profile pic is a dog

[Dreams of Grandeur]

I was thinking the same thing! I can already tell you that three pages in and I don't have reads on anyone except Dry-fit for his attempt to make guille look scum, but I don't want to put him at L-1 just in case someone quickhammers on accident

This shows inconsistent thought, considering he was agreeing with Boro about people who had excessive townreads but didn't have a scumread on us who gave excessive townreads everywhere. Then there's fred avoidance, a little dragonfly weirdposting, and sure. I'll sit there for a little while.

Vote: dragonfly

Dry-Fit is looking better; guille is looking worse.

[Dreams of Grandeur]

hey mala


you are town, i am hoping this game, right ?

Hai (:

I am. So no need to worry. We should bounce reads off each other.

sounds good to me. i've skimmed this page until page 9 as of now... @nacho - i wouldn't mind talking about scum reads too, sorry have been a bit busy lately. i'm curious as to why guille looks worse to you, is it because dry fit looks better? i'll get a qt started.

i have to say that i really only seem to have reads on people that i'm more familiar with -- for example, cheery and dry fit still seem town to me. you do as well, mala. also i haven't played with uct before, but my first feeling with his posts is that he seems town. going to work on a reread now to get a better idea


dragonfly- i know you were asking me a some questions, i'll answer those in next post.


~mantis (and ya i think it was BRO who was wondering, i usually post in lowercase)

[Dreams of Grandeur]

Hi!

I'm pretty busy right now and I don't know when I will have time to contribute. Hopefully sometime (or what's left of) today

also, you were my number one suspect, so i look forward to what you think

About what?

From reading the game I think Boro is town. Dry-fit too.
Mort is now just trying to get through the day without anyone really noticing him.
Mvmafia has a nice avatar. The quote out of context on Dry-fit is bad as mvmafia takes a lot of the things literally in the post. It looks like he needed a reason to vote Dry-fit.

If you want to burn a witch, follow me!
VOTE: Morton

about the game :p

what makes you say boro looks town?

[Dreams of Grandeur]

I just noticed something...

Dreams, you said "you

were

my number one suspect" implying that I am no longer your number one suspect. This was also before I even really contributed. You are also still voting me. Were you planning on moving your vote, but you didn't? If I am no longer your suspect, why are you still voting me?

Dry-fit seems dismissive. The questions he asks before discussing the things he quote look to be efforts to diminish the importance of whoever he is answers.
Examples include asking mvm why he did this on his scumday, and asking the question about being voted.

wait, didn't you just say he looked town.

well, no i meant i was suspicious of hawk (i was speaking of him in past tense i guess, because he subbed out). but ya, i should have said im still suspicious of your slot.

mostly because it really looked like hawk was avoiding suspicion on him.

[Dreams of Grandeur]

also his one post about agreeing that there were too many townreads

[Dreams of Grandeur]

morton almost looks too scummy to be scum... the burn the witch looks kinda towny.

[Dreams of Grandeur]

mort's 'burn the witch' kinda seems like a town thing to me

oh said that already

Okay.

So we got 5 days and wagons scattered about.

My solo vote is doing jack shit.

VOTE: MvM

I didn't like the vote on Dry. Felt off, I didn't like the prior slot.

i agree with you there.


here's what i think so far..

that town are in here
4. Mortontfrh*
5. Dreams of Grandeur*
7. Dry-Fit
9. Cheery Dog*
10. Malakittens
11. uctriton00** (wondering a little though)


and scum in here...
1. XKamikazex** mvmafia
2. Broseidon**
3. hawkleader3* dragonfly
6. BoroPhil
8. guille2015*
12. Commandodude*

[Dreams of Grandeur]

Deadline is in one day and a no lynch would kill me inside. I'm going to start wallposting.

[Dreams of Grandeur]

6. BoroPhil BoroPhil

I disagree with mantis on this scumread, for the record. We'll talk about during the night!

[Dreams of Grandeur]

FUCKING SHIT
I will not likely have time to post until Monday, but a lot of these wagons suck. Commandodude is OK.

[Dreams of Grandeur]

hateful vote :<

:-{

mala you see this post and what do you think
TROLL
don't lynch him D1 please
it's a crapshoot whether he will flip scum or town and it's not a good crapshoot because everyone doesn't look town yet
we'll sort him out with PoE, just please lynch a stronger scumread for now

[Dreams of Grandeur]

So I'm currently the leading wagon for...being third on an rvs bandwagon?

BRO's vote at the moment seems the least genuine. He still likes his vote on me even though the only apparent reason he could have had for it was me being third on the RVS wagon, and he hasn't given any reasoning since. He seems the most like scum hoping this lynch will end up going through with him giving minimal effort.

Unvote. Vote: BROseidon.

^good vote, seems town

I think you asking Cheery what he thinks of Hawk is town, looking to get your preferred lynch rather than any number of other lynches you could have likely coasted into.

Otherwise you've been very proactive and looking at a lot of different angles and players.

^actual fucking reasoning

It's town because it shows he's really trying to figure out who is scum. Also I don't think a new scum player would take his vote off of me, the leading wagon, when he's one of the players under a significant amount of pressure.

^also town

but the smoking gun is that guille called him town and guille is town
people don't give him as much credit as he deserves when he is town
but he deserves that credit
TRUST GUILLE

[Dreams of Grandeur]

Why is this bad?
I will help make sure that a lynch occurs, even if I have to self hammer. I do realize the importance of flips for information if that is what you're asking.
Why are you only bringing this up now and not when I voted Morton?

because you're voting on a stupid vanity wagon when we're very, VERY close to deadline
you're not helping make sure a lynch occurs because you are dilly dallying around on a shit vote
do you know why it is a shit vote?
because no one likes it and you aren't pushing it
this gives you the ability as scum to go wherever the hell you want when deadline actually comes, or not hammer yourself when the time comes down to it because it's better than dying

What do you mean?
Legitimacy is ultimately up to the reader. I think my reasons for Mala scum are accurate especially looking at her content. She hasn't really been pushing anyone. She's making votes but I don't see the gusto of trying to get those people lynched.

legitimacy is up to the reader, EXACTLY
when every single reader is screaming "booo, you suck" it's time to step it the fuck up

[Dreams of Grandeur]

i am sorry for being a bit of an ass but I don't know if I can post by tomorrow
if I cannot and doc doesn't protect me during the night, remember:

GUILLE
CHEERY DOG
MALA
BORO

you four are town's shiny happy hope
act like it
lynch me some scum
and fucking berate the shit out of the doctor when he claims

[Dreams of Grandeur]

PLEASE
DON'T
FORGET
ME

[Dreams of Grandeur]

COMMANDODUDE
let's get cuddly

you haven't given shit for reads the whole game
let's see something

[Dreams of Grandeur]

MALA CHEERY
why weren't you on that glorious dfly wagon yesterday?

[Dreams of Grandeur]

BRO
look at associations less
i will watch guille but he was my little townie friend yesterday

[Dreams of Grandeur]

MALA CHEERY
why weren't you on that glorious dfly wagon yesterday?

It had bneen hammered before I got up to check a lynch had gone thjrough, mvmafia is still a scumread, but I probably will check on both scum flips on details at soome point.

but for now
VOTE: mvmafia

lame

[Dreams of Grandeur]

Case on Dragonfly looks good.

My vote will go to either MvM or Dragonfly. I'm going to ISO them in the following hours to see who deserves it most.

Cheery actually interacts with Boro is in iso, Guille doesn't. I think Guille is our best bet for a Boro scumbuddy.

I didn't have anything to say about Boro. I didn't think he was scummy enough to get my attention, actually, I didn't even think he was scum or anything.

Anyways, I'm gonna go sleep. I can't concentrate at this point. I'll post more tomorrow. I've been rethinking my reads.

These are things that I don't like.

[Dreams of Grandeur]

Vote: Guille

[Dreams of Grandeur]

thinking commando is the other scum

[Dreams of Grandeur]

I don't really think Cheery is scum.

[Dreams of Grandeur]

Anyway guille's just practically done what dry-fit was wagoned for on day 1.

what did we wagon him for?

[Dreams of Grandeur]

thinking commando is the other scum

was thinking that as a possibility too, with post 304

[Dreams of Grandeur]

jilynne, what are your reads? other than being unsure on mvm?

[Dreams of Grandeur]

Unvote, Vote: Commandodude

[Dreams of Grandeur]

I got an eye on some people mainly for lack of reason on voting and will take more two pages of read to decide.

I have no idea where this went or why it was originally such a big deal.

e reason guille would want me dead is that he knows that not only am I experienced in this setup, but that I believe scum should always try to hit members of the opposing scumteam with the nightkill. This means that guille would consider me a

So you are claiming yourself scum ? wtf is this dude ?

Wanted to vote on a random voter but dry's post seems a clear scum claim.

vote: Dry-fit

This is also one of those things that seems like scum seizing on an opportunity.

I dont need to explain. Just read his explanation. Take your own decision on who to vote. thx.

It makes more sense for town to want to explain their votes so they can get support for their righteous cause, but it doesn't make sense for mvm as scum to dodge a demand for explanations for no reason.

weird how mala was trying to protect you. Are you partners ? If you get lynched and shown up as mafia i'll just wait for doc protection and go 100% on mala at day 2.

But i'm still keeping my vote on you atm.

After saying something like this, I'm fairly confident that MvM didn't decide to kill Dry Fit at night, making him an unlikely Ice Goon. It also doesn't make sense for him to follow his partner Boro that closely if they are two scum together, so he's a bad choice for the last Ice goon.

how many time left ? Do we have time before someone hammer him ?

If he was partners with Dragonfly, it wouldn't have been that hard for him to avoid the thread since time had been ticking down pretty fucking quickly. It doesn't make sense for him to hammer his partner in this situation and kill Boro who was pushing on Dry Fit just as hard as he was.

Are you nutz ?

I hammered the fire dude. how do you conclude i'm fire ?

your logic is absolutely fail.

This seemed pretty damn genuine to me.

Mala i dont know.

Additionally, this makes sense because of earlier linking Mala with Dry-Fit (if you flip scum, I'll call for doctor protection and come after you Day 2, Mala).

So overall, probably town.

[Dreams of Grandeur]

Baroo? What makes you confident that you can read my town game?

I didn't like this when it happened originally, but if BRO didn't know who I was, this was a bit of a paranoid response that I sort of liked. Mostly null, though.

I like Mala's posts so far. She is handling the votes on her well and she's trying to be productive So, despite her name (cats are bad, evil cats are worse), I think Mala is town. This feels very different from my experience with scum Mala (granted, that experience is very limited). Also like Boro's posts, for reasons Dreams has already articulated. Also like Dreams's big post, even if I think some of what he's posted is a bit of a stretch.

But that makes BRO's post here much better; it means that he's reading the people he's played with before first, getting a connection on a player he's familiar with before sorting out the lake of unknowns in front of him.

What do you guys think of hawk? Do his concerns look more or less forced than commando's?

This looks pretty good now that Dragonfly(hawk) has flipped Fire goon. It's unlikely that BRO would bring attention to hawk that early in the game without placing a vote down; he's just setting him up to be lynched while not really getting any sort of towncred from his move and that's not partner interactions. So this makes BRO an unlikely fire candidate.

Morton is VI, so he's in my townpile unless his stupid starts seeming scum motivated.

This is tossing away a nice juicy target as scum for no reason, meaning that it's probably a town-motivated move.

Nope you're a very strong scumread and I would love to lynch you.

Good to know. Brb will reread and townflail now.

This is a great response to pressure, especially once the townflail came.

Also Nacho/Mantis can you guys pls sign your posts I'm getting off vibes on reread and I'm not sure if it's because I'm reading them all as Nacho so the Mantis stuff seems off or if it's because you're actually scum.

And this effort to sort us out was good; a little bit of paranoia that has no scum motivation behind it is a strong tell of town.

@Boro can you provide your own reads at some point? You seem keen to ask questions about things, but you aren't providing any analysis of your own. Would like to see more insight from you.

This is a weak question, but is a good question for a partner.

Okay, Boro's play pattern was pretty clear. He was trying to aggressively scumhunt while not leaving behind any townreads off of which people could discern a partner. The quote about Mala is a little strange, but I'm willing to buy that Mala isn't the second ice scum for now based more on a townread of her than off of the associative tell. DoG and Commando are clear, here.

This was an interesting move; scum flying after the Ice goon partner immediately after the nightkill is a bit of a weak tell saying that BRO probably isn't ice scum.

So he is probably town. If he's scum, he's Ice, but even that's fairly unlikely.

[Dreams of Grandeur]

Burn the witch! Burn the witch! Burn the witch!

Mantis said that this type of behavior was more likely to come from town than scum, and I think I agree with her. It makes sense that he would troll about for a little while if he was busy and having trouble getting into the game; it doesn't make sense for him to do anything any other than lay low if he doesn't have much time.

I'll give reads on (hopefully) everyone later and ask a few questions.

Right now I have Dreams and Bro as definite town (that I don't see changing anytime soon.)

What other reads do you have?

I can't decipher if this is scum pretending to be town or a naive townie. I think we both know that if you know your partner's going to die, you might as well bus him to give yourself some extra townie points. Playing stupid is scummy.

Maybe, but that's not mafia 101 in this sort of setup. Why do you think he's playing stupid?

All this slot really has going for it is Morton's burn the witch tell, and that's obviously not that strong.
Hm.

[Dreams of Grandeur]

So, Mala, Talk to me, What do you think of Dream's Math up there?

I liked the early reach out to Mala; Mala doesn't necessarily have a hard time reading him as scum, but as town they are a force together (as demonstrated by their hydra together).

The same could be said about you. So I am guessing that if you are scum, you'd be targeting me at night. Well, not anymore since you outed this ploy. The question here is whether your actual scum or not. Curiously, I am actually liking this line of thinking. Makes me think that you are not thinking with your scum mentality. hmmm. You won as scum last game, so, I'm going to have to go back and read that game (skim really). Mala will probably know that game better. I'll come back to this later.

I like the transparency in this thought. It starts to get a little circular, but I can completely see where guille is coming from.

Vote Kamikaze

This followup is good trajectory to the last post. He doesn't know what to do with Dry-Fit, so he sits on it a day and then decides in the morning that it's unlikely to come from scum, votes someone else.

After reading through my previous two games with Dry-Fit. I don't think he is the right lynch today. I'll know more the more he posts.

Also good trajectory. He's not completely convinced, but he's giving Dry Fit a chance. I liked that. He also follows up later with a "nah, dry fit is town" which completes the beautiful trajectory path of guille and Dry-Fit and gives him a decently strong townread from me, but I'm probably not going to quote that post.

Got it. Best strategy for scum is to do really stupid things since everyone will think that it's to stupid for scum.

This was a genuine response; I liked it.

Damn, Dryfit, ruining my scum read on Comando. He is right though.

Unvote

Does your commando townread still hold?

Case on Dragonfly looks good.

I didn't like all of this posturing during the day for a hop onto Dragonfly that he never quite made. It felt a hell of a lot like stalling, and I hated that.

I'll post Mvm case later.

I'd like to see this.

So, for the majority of Day 1, guille had some pretty good posts that give me a strong townread on him. His end of Day 1 play was a little iffy, but I don't really think that he's fire mafia because of it. BUT. If he is mafia, he's burning hot fire mafia.

[Dreams of Grandeur]

VOTE: Cheery Dog

Just to see if he is still cheery after he gets a vote

Congrats you're now a town read I'll suspect at some point.

I liked this but it's not enough for a lasting townread.

@Dry can I use the same logic for that guille vote against you for wanting guile dead?
Because I believe out might work that way having not witnessed previous games first hand.

This is a good refutation, but I don't really think there was any followup.

Is it just me or are a lot of people keen to point out town reads this early in the game? Can't see how one or two posts can make you so confident. smacks of trying to appear town to me

So does that make everyone doing it scum or what?

another weak question.

The only claims in this game are doctor or vt. (or possibly fire/ice mafia later in the game)

VOTE: commando

This was an opportunistic hop.

Because what I'm voting him on, the pressure I'm still applying by leaving the vote should still work for what I want it to do.

And he left his vote here until much, much later. Didn't really interact with Commando at all in the meantime.

Mafia scum deserve to die.

So the explanation of how you came to this happens to be...?

Instead, he starts questioning the burn the witch troller, Morton, which is some more useless posting that he knows won't catch him out in any significant way.

Now I'm had a weird thought that guille and dryfit are buddies doing weird distancing, but I think that's overlooking other crap, and just there to confuse myself.

This is the only thought that doesn't have to do with him attacking Commando/Morton, and he backs off it immediately.

Though my vote on you is probably mostly on kamikazes lack of play (and the late confirm without posting straight away, which I believe is a scumtell.

And this is a shitty reason to be voting someone at the end of the day, especially when I'm hammering pretty hard on dragonfly at this point and Cheery hasn't said shit.

Should I hammer guile?

If you believe he is scum, then I guess you can.

You probably should ask him to claim first though.

This is a crazy ambivalent response to someone getting hammered and everyone ignoring his MvM scumread.

I don't like Cheery this game. The three players he's focused primarily on (MvM, Commando, Morton) were all easy targets at the time, and his tunneling on MvM *might* be forgivable if he gave a shit about it, but he clearly doesn't thanks to his response to Commando asking if he could hammer and the fact that his case was started on Kamikaze's "activity". He's probably Fire mafia, although I don't really care what flavor of scum he is; he just is.

[Dreams of Grandeur]

VOTE: Cheery Dog

Just to see if he is still cheery after he gets a vote

So question is why didn't you hop onto my current weirdish forming bandwagon?

I liked the aggressive start by Mala, included with the early tango with guille. I'm not sure he can read her as well as she can read him, but it's still a minor towntell.

I can say UCT will be an easy read halfway during Day 1 along with Guille.

What is your read on UCT?

Ah so prodding is every 48 hours :p

So Mort . All you're going to do is throw a vote on someone and leave.. No comments or anything.

VOTE: Mort

This is a decently weak attack.

I'm also seeing a difference in Bro. Watch out for him please.

I liked this post. It's monitoring someone who was acting pretty fucking weird on D1, and I liked that she started to move to get her wagon going when deadline started approaching.

Oh lul. He unvoted, okay now that's a fail.

UNVOTE: Commando

VOTE: MvM

Back to where I was prior >.>

This felt pretty genuine. Attack something that you thought was a scumslip, then realize you fucked up and back off immediately.

You know..

Just because I'm not pushing a wagon doesn't mean I'm scum. There's lack of information right now and I'm currently sitting on who I do believe is scum.

About the whole appearing to be town.. Please tell me how no lynching is beneficial? Why are you trying to use me trying to get the scattered votes onto an actual lynch in a twisted way. Why aren't you considering that maybe it's a town motivation also.

So do me a favor. Remove your confirmation bias glasses and then come talk to me.

It's odd that Mala didn't decide to jump on dragonfly's wagon after this post, but the verbally chastising seemed a bit like non-buddy buddy interactions to me.

It means that Boro wasn't aware DoG was a hydra. Knowing nacho or mantis they would have posted in pregame QT so showing that they were a hydra would have been made very aware. Unless Boro was being aggorgant (possibility) the confusion on the hydra felt genuine.

Good point, genuine, town. Shows that Mala still has a bit of paranoia about me, which is good because she definitely could've gone the buddy up to route

Yah I'm willing to hammer Guille. This isn't town Guille and if it is I'll be amazed..

No, wait for Guille to post first.

These posts had good trajectory; she was posturing and mindgaming guille with the whole "I have you fucking pegged for scum" bit, but didn't want him to be completely destroyed without having a chance to speak for himself.

GUILLE ISN'T SCUM

I also liked this, good trajectory from trying to figure out guille before. I also agree with this sentiment, meaning that Mala is leaving alive someone she would normally have to kill down the road? Probably not scum.

I've like most of Mala's contributions, Mantis agrees with me, Mala's probably town.

[Dreams of Grandeur]

her character/playstyle is too confirmation biased to be objective.

What does this mean?

Town card to Boro; it's genuine town concerns/perspectives in #87 and #100. Have a seat on the town couch.

This would be a very easy way to dismiss a partner.

I'm loving Cheery on Morton though; I see them on opposite teams, and not any weird possible bus. If I had to bet, I'd say it's Cheery who's the town right now, and Morton a defensive scum. But Commando is my vote still.

It's very, very weird that UCT views a fight between two players as TvS when it's multiball and doesn't really think of the possibility of scum v scum. Could be a result of coming from a single scum team's perspective.

I was approaching the game from town v scum, but now that people point out in multiball that there are others hunting others, I'm making my reads differently from now on.

And THIS is even weirder. You forgot it was multiball???

I'm stuck on Commando.

158: pleading for "help"
196: some weird reasoning, I don't buy it.
220: trying to discredit Dragonfly

Follow me to freedom.

And Dry-fit, how do you get Commando being town in that 196 post? Is it you seeing him as town, or because he protected you that you think he's town too?

UCT also tunneling the fuck out of an easy target. Also, not revisiting his Cheery/Morton fight, which is a bit scummy.

To be honest you can make any ISO look like scummy if you want, but Dragonfly's ISO looks scummier than anyone elses.

Vote: dragonfly

L-1

Simple, smooth, easy. Probably not fire mafia.

Broseidon already did what I was going to do, and that's a townie as **** scumhunt.

It's a shame you never decided to do this, although I wonder what's stopping you from towninating.

and mvm's logic is flawed enough that i think he's the 4th scum and we've won the game and can go home after this

Sticking to BRO like a leech; meanwhile, he's far too eager to go to night.

He's probably the Ice mafia to Cheery's fire, from the looks of it.

[Dreams of Grandeur]

So if I decide something looks like a quickhammer, I can pull my vote off and prevent it. Voting anyone else at this stage is pointless.

If a quickhammer does occur,.votes were locked in and can't be removed.
So are you just removing it if dry-fit goes to L-1 our do you have a point to be voting him?

I meant L-1 sorry. If he comes up with a reasonable claim, I will remove my vote.

The "rushing the day"ness of Commando's posting seemed more newbish than alignment telling. I will say that I do like the "reasonable claim" point; it shows he's unfamiliar with the setup and usually one of the first things newbies decide to do when they're completely lost as scum is see what they're up against.

I feel like I'm the only one still in the RVS stage, there's a lot of info but I have no idea what to make of it, help? Anyone?

Lone townie towntell.

I think Cheery is town, Dry-Fit dosen't seem to be actively trying to get the votes off himeself and at L-2, I think most mafia would be trying to.

Unvote: Dry- Fit

I liked this post; shows a lack of opportunism.

@Dragonfly: Can you make even make a legitimate case against Mala?

This *probably* isn't too partners talking...

Screw this, just going to pile onto the dragonfly wagon to prevent a no lynch.

Vote:Dragonfly

...but this DEFINITELY isn't. Commando isn't fire.

Like I said, I can't ISO Mvm because he posts so rarely, I've been staring at his ISO for a pretty long time now, and I can't get anything off of it.

This was extremely genuine, I thought.

So, not a whole lot, but he's not a fire mafia and I lean town on him.

[Dreams of Grandeur]

AKA I'm joining guille on Cheery Dog. I'll prod Mantis to see what she thinks of all of this.

Vote: Cheery Dog

[Dreams of Grandeur]

I am a Vanilla Townie and my only goal in life is to eliminate threats to the town

like every billionth game on this site I get when I get vanilla townie

was there a reason for the early out...?

To be honest that Bro breakdown looked awesome as **** and the less work I have to do when I have absolutely nothing to do, the better

I think the game is already set with guile and commando/mvm and i'm just coasting to the end

so you ignored all of those walls, in other words

[Dreams of Grandeur]

oh nope it's just more wagoning people on nothing.

oh so that's what that was
and I'm sure you read the other walls too

A hop from the not having voted all game category, how interesting.

hops don't have to be from wagon to wagon
they could be from notvoting to a vanity wagon
but it's still a hop onto an easy target

I know my own bogus thoughts, and things like this don't exist in my scum game, because I don't have those thoughts as scum.

you know I can't take your word for it
especially when you could be scumhunting for the other team

Show me this hard hammering please, because I didn't see any of that either, the wagon took off because of deadline and that it wasn't based on a slightly weird town post in the case of dry-fit.

my yelling/pleading posts before I disappeared yesterday?
Did you miss those?

I wanted mvmafia to actually commit to whether he thought guille was scum or not and not just hammer (which I believe would have been the case) because the wagon exists.

why would it matter if Commando committed before he hammered or not?
you would have been find with it as he said that he thought guille was scum?

and Nacho you've played with me before, why are you including shit like weak questioning in a case against me?

because it's still scummy.

[Dreams of Grandeur]

I then would probably have wanted an explantion as to why, but commando is still one of my town reads.

Why?

In what way does it point to be being scum when I'm doing the same type of thing as both alignments?

You mix in weak questioning and strong questioning as town, but this is all mostly weak. What do you think of my other walls?

[Dreams of Grandeur]

please hold off on hammering Cheery Dog.

[Dreams of Grandeur]

can you do scumhunting that isn't association based?

[Dreams of Grandeur]

Yeah, unless Ucts play style has changed since our last game.. He's town.

what do you think about cheery dog?

[Dreams of Grandeur]

One more time and I swear I'll never ask you for anything again.
We just need one more day.
Please.

[Dreams of Grandeur]

BUT JUST IN CASE OF A FUCK UP:

Commando/Jillyene are on the radar atm. I rather liked all of the active people today.

[Dreams of Grandeur]

Vote: Commando

I'd like other people to post too.

[Dreams of Grandeur]

No. Commando was always the stronger read out of the two.

[Dreams of Grandeur]

i forgot that jillyanne was taking over for mort. her post here 376 seems pretty genuine too.

i think commando, broseidon or mvmafia are kind of fishy. i think with mvmafia looking maybe the worst.

i didn't like his pressure on dry-fit first thing http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p4995587
this kind of rubs me the wrong way too: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p5049957

^Cheery said he was pretty certain that Guille was town. Mala said the same. it kind of looks like going after the low-poster for a reason to vote.

also mvmafia - what made you say that you think Commando and jillyanne are town? here: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p5033609

[Dreams of Grandeur]

Wow, this game is shit.

The scum are jilynne and mvm, with uct being a slight possibility.

VOTE: jil

you got scum didn't you

[Dreams of Grandeur]

Nope. Commando was pretty freaking obvious town.

why?

[Dreams of Grandeur]

mvm, this only focusing on guille's absence is what is suspicious to me

[Dreams of Grandeur]

Wow, this game is shit.

The scum are jilynne and mvm, with uct being a slight possibility.

VOTE: jil

what are your thoughts on BRO?

[Dreams of Grandeur]

because i was thinking that jil's post: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p5035963 here, looked like it was coming from town. scum don't usually make a big scene about not being hammered.

[Dreams of Grandeur]

VOTE: mvmafia

[Dreams of Grandeur]

klick you'd be sheeping the mantis part of the hydra. i'm not *exactly* sure what nacho thinks.

mvm - mala and cheery both seemed pretty sure that guille was town, so i'm kind of going with that. it's just i don't really like that your last posts have only been focused on him.

[Dreams of Grandeur]

Okay, I have read half the thread. I am convinced. (i'll read the other half in the morning)

Vote: Uctrition

GOGOGOGOGOGOGO.

get the fuck out

[Dreams of Grandeur]

i feel like if we lynch mvm & BRO that will be game

T-Bone looks good for having guille as his strongest town read... i think.

[Dreams of Grandeur]

prod received

..hmm. what to say - mvm can you list your reads in order from most to least scummiest?

[Dreams of Grandeur]

Nacho here. Guille, UCT, probably BRO are all town in my book, leaving scum in the Klick/mvm/T-Bone trifecta.

I want to lynch mvm out of that trifecta. I have no idea why Klick and I are all alone in that.

[Dreams of Grandeur]

Sell me on MVM.

first thing that looked bad was the vote on dry fit, long after i think quite a few removed their votes from him. and then putting suspicion on mala for 'protecting him'.. mala who looked the most towny from the start.

he hammered dragonfly, but there was that back and forth about how he couldn't be his partner

because

he hammered him. which we know that scum bussing is not out of the question.

and mostly just the focus on guille, now.

[Dreams of Grandeur]

Dreams of Grandeur how did commando dude look to you?

he reminded me a bit at first of hawk - how they were both looking overly concerned about hammering.
but then i started thinking his actually posting looked townish.
(~mantis)

i have to look at him again i think

[Dreams of Grandeur]

If cheery isnt scum, probably guile is. What do you guys think of guile ? scum or town ?

just read his ISO, i still think town.

[Dreams of Grandeur]

Just to reiterate for anyone who wants to ride my wagon:

1. I start discussing bro
2. Bro hammers a wagon all of a sudden
3. Doctor sees Bro did that rather suspiciously
4. Doctor protects me
5. Bro tries to kill me
6. Bro fails
7. Bro instead of going after me tries to go after someone else, which in this case is guile again

1 and 2 are the only facts, 3 through 7 are all conjecture.

i think that 3-7 are a little ridiculous and egotistical

[Dreams of Grandeur]

The only issue I see with that is, why exactly would BRO want to kill you?

that's the only issue?

[Dreams of Grandeur]

So you're case is that I had a bad hammer, and then a shitton of conjecture that nobody is attached to (which, by the way, includes the doctor).

You're case is shit.

maybe
but other people find you scummy for reasons and it's up to you to prove them wrong, not to prove their cases to be shit