Open 510: DUCK DUCK GOOSE- SCUM WIN!!


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Post Post #27 (isolation #0) » Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:15 am

Post by NotMara »

Hello. This is a hydra of Rob13 and Maestro. I'll attempt to remember to sign posts but may occasionally forget - just ask if you aren't sure who's posting.

Also - are you guys even serious right now? There are a decent amount of players with experience in this game and no one has even remotely attempted to get out of RVS even a little bit.
In post 5, Siveure DtTrikyp wrote:Sixth Post!
Siv is a better player than this. No RVS vote. No attempt to provoke anyone or prod anyone into giving more info.
In post 10, Siveure DtTrikyp wrote:Counterclaim doctor

VOTE: IrishPope
Keeps us in RVS. No attempt to make any useful contributions. Again - Siv is better than this. There were multiple things to potentially pressure before this post that he could have taken up and prodded at to see if anything squirmed. Instead, he was totally content to keep us in RVS.

Other offenders on the Doc shiz include Sakura Hana (new to the game, so I doubt this is alignment indicative) and Taskmaster (same). TIP is not someone I'm concerned about "claiming" doctor because he did it first. If anything, it's a decent attempt to get reactions which is a town-tell (although an extremely small one).

But, after all that, I'm gonna place my vote on someone else entirely. Generic is not looking good. His #3 is fine RVS material for a first post of the game - not alignment indicative. His apology for it without anyone calling him out on it in #8 is alignment indicative, though. He's overly concerned with how people are viewing him. That's scum behavior, not town behavior. He then does more-or-less the same thing in #11 where he changes his vote and defends himself pretty hard against someone telling him to do the research if he wants to know the heads in their hydra - which isn't even an accusation of anything. Overly defensive, throwing votes around left-and-right with no attempt to find scum, commented on the doc business with no analysis, etc. - all of them point to either complete noob-town or scum. He claims two years of experience playing the game, so I'm going to go with scum. Even on another site without the rigor of play that MS has, he would know better as town if he played for a solid two years.

Vote: Generic


This, if not obvious, is a serious vote.

~Rob
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Post Post #29 (isolation #1) » Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:24 am

Post by NotMara »

In post 27, NotMara wrote:(although an extremely small one)

~Rob
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Post Post #35 (isolation #2) » Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:46 am

Post by NotMara »

Treble, are you willing to tell me which head is posting right now? I consider that pretty relevant at the moment.

Also, re:D3f: I'm not concerned with the joke that is there. I'm concerned with the scumhunting that isn't.
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Post Post #38 (isolation #3) » Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:55 am

Post by NotMara »

It's odd for anyone to defend themselves against an accusation that no one made. It's indicative of being overly concerned with your appearance to others - something that is generally exhibited only by scum or noob-town. The fact that you're talking about the game in a rather sophisticated manner (especially in the line of defense involving my lack of established meta on you) and claim a lot of experience makes me think you're not noob-town. From there, I connected the dots.

And is it reaching? Yes. This is page 2. It's the best lead I have at the moment. I think it's a pretty good one, though.

~Rob
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Post Post #67 (isolation #4) » Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:10 pm

Post by NotMara »

Experienced =/= Good at the game, first off. This is especially true if you came from another site other than MS, as we don't know the quality of play on that site. If it's anything like EM or other such sites, then I would be entirely unsurprised if you were experienced and not great at the game at the same time. So putting words in my mouth and saying I called you noob-scum is pushing it quite a bit.

Generic saying Hana is too worried over a single vote in #44 is seriously pushing it. Hana called out Generic before Generic's vote on Hana turned serious. If anything, Generic is OMGUSing Hana, not the other way around. I should note here that OMGUS is not a scum-tell, in my opinion, and I'm not using it to say that Generic is scum here. I'm just saying he's being a hypocrite.

#55 gets some town points, I suppose. It certainly pushes Generic into the experienced camp when it comes to game theory.

#58 call-out of Treble makes me think that Hana is probably town. I don't see scum backing down here, as scum tends to be more concerned with "losing" arguments then they really ought to be. This is especially true in newer players, in my experience, of which Hana is one.

What the fuck? I just got to #65 and...what? I need to know which head wrote that because I need to see if this is typical of the tone of their posts. Vote on Hana is awful and with nothing for reasoning. Parroting someone on page 2-3 is not a scumtell. We have like 50 posts to go on, most of which are from around 4 people. If you expect each person to contribute some amazing new insights in every post at this point in the game, then you're really going to be disappointed in every game you play.

#66 - Chainsaw defense is a buzzword that doesn't really apply here. It would be extremely presumptive to consider that a chainsaw defense of Generic when only a vote was placed and no major arguments made. This is especially true because Treble would want to discredit me, not Hana, if he were actually attempting a chainsaw defense. Attacking someone agreeing with my argument rather than the person delivering it doesn't make for a successful chainsaw defense because the argument against Generic still stands on its own.

I'm hoping Maestro gets on sometime soon so I can talk to him about compiling a reads list, but I think I've made my thoughts pretty clear so far. Generic is possibly scum, as is Treble. Siv's RVS behavior is questionable, but that's something I'm shelving for now because I have better leads - RVS play is hard to analyze anyway, so I'll just wait for actual posting from him before looking harder in that direction. Hana looks town. TIP is null. The rest haven't posted enough to get a read, really.

~Rob
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Post Post #70 (isolation #5) » Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:50 pm

Post by NotMara »

In post 68, TheIrishPope wrote:You said I gave a towntell Rob
So? And why do you bring it up?
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Post Post #80 (isolation #6) » Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:26 pm

Post by NotMara »

It's not so much a meta thing as an experience thing. Someone who has played on MS for nearly a year knows how to scumhunt and get out of RVS early. I expect better from Siv than what he delivered on early page 1. That's not the best lead at the moment, though, so I'm not going to spend a lot of my time talking about someone who hasn't posted in a few pages and that I had a read that was flimsy at best on from the beginning. The insinuation that I'm attempting to "quietly drop the argument" is crap. I said in the post I brought the argument up in that I didn't intend to focus on it because it wasn't my best lead. I also mentioned my read on Siv in #67 without being prompted to by someone else. I didn't quietly drop anything. I'm not going to pursue something that isn't worth pursuing at the moment, though.

I don't see how #8 and #11 can be read as anything but defensive and preoccupied with self-image.

I'm quickly acquiring more scum-reads than I know what to do with. TIP on this page bothered me. I put that null tell down to see what he'd say about it (if anything) since he seemed to get hung up on the fact that I thought he gave a very slight town-tell in #27 - to the point of ignoring everything else in the post. His response is oddly self-focused. For the same reasons I think Generic looked scummy on early page 1, I think TIP comes off scummy there. Overly occupied with himself. I need to read his other games, though, because I don't know if he's moved past being noob-town yet, considering he hasn't been on site that long.

P-edit:
Unvote
- Generic is looking a bit better, especially with that comment about RVS (which suggests he's less experienced than I thought in game theory). I need to talk to my other head.

~Rob
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Post Post #159 (isolation #7) » Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:52 am

Post by NotMara »

Generic's #84 and #91 - Four doctor claims in a game that has no doctors still deserves analysis. It's a very easy place for scum to hide in RVS. They aren't actually doing anything and aren't actually calling anyone out. This wasn't a mistake of mine - I fully realize there are no doctors in this game. A large group of people perpetuating a joke without making any attempt to scum-hunt or call out anything at all is entirely worth discussion, though. And yes, I do think MS players are the best at RVS because our experienced players know how to get out of it early. In most games I'm in, either I or someone else gets to serious discussion by the bottom of page 1. That's pretty good.

TIP's #87 - We're out of RVS. Contribute something.

Siv's #93 - You've played a year
on MS
, which is a big difference to playing two years elsewhere. The expectation is that you're decent by this point. I've played with you in games where you played much better than you did in this RVS.

Generic's #96 - Your assumption that a joke does not deserve analysis is wrong, but this reasoning is classic noob-town. I was probably wrong about Generic.

ITT Ducks

D3f3nd3r gets town points for #104/#105 - I don't even know what TIP is doing at this point.

Ah, so #107 claims that TIP doesn't like to participate in the early stages of the game. Well, that's anti-town as hell, but let's see if it holds water in meta. In [http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=28962]Newbie 1384[/url], TIP calls RVS the "main promoter (sic) for discussion in any case, with OMGUSs and accusations and such" (post #8). So if he thinks RVS is a positive thing for town (and that is 100% wrong, by the way - it isn't), then this regression to it kind of fits.

#112 also highlights how I was 100% wrong on Generic's level of experience, as was called out by Hana in #114 and D3f3nd3r in #115.

Also, my gut read on #117 is that it's angry town, not angry scum. That's entirely gut, though.

#149 - I think I've highlighted why I think Generic is starting to lean townish above. My read on him was largely based on an assumption that he had a certain level of experience. His posting clearly shows he does not, so far.

#152 - This is classic noob-town, again. Generic is turning into a town read.

Taskmaster is looking like town.

Ok, now on to Mutley. He's scum. It's obvious. Do I really need to even say any more about this? His reads are going unexplained. He refuses to provide any reasoning at all on them. When asked about the bussing issue if they ARE scum (#157), he shows that he clearly isn't trying to analyze the information in the game to come up with reads, but rather he's pulling reads out of his ass. No explanation of why they would be bussing or any analysis about that at all. I mean - really?

Vote: Mutley
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Post Post #160 (isolation #8) » Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:52 am

Post by NotMara »

^

~Rob
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Post Post #177 (isolation #9) » Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:36 am

Post by NotMara »

In post 161, Sound of Silence wrote:#96 - "Why me?" = "Fry me!"
Just....no. This is literally the worst scum-tell there is.

Also re:silence - Most of the tells I saw Generic give could be noob-town or scum, as I said many times early on. I had thought he was experienced enough that noob-town wasn't a possibility. Clearly, based on some of his posts on game theory lately, I was wrong.

#170 is sketchy as hell. Fast backpedaling on Generic from Hana. Do not want. You pushed his case for pages and pages and then hopped off when it had a large wagon saying he wasn't even a large scum-read of yours. Then he places an easy vote on TIP - which is another wagon that has started recently.

I have not read Mutley's meta, nor do I plan to. If this is his meta as both alignments, he deserves policy lynches until he revises his play. He's been playing incredibly anti-town and scummy.
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Post Post #231 (isolation #10) » Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:57 pm

Post by NotMara »

In [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5116352#p5116352]post 230[/url], Rob13 wrote:Why would you want to lynch
any
townie? I can't see any scum motivation for saying that, but I can't see any town motivation for saying it either. That was just a stupid statement period.

~Rob
What non-hydra? Nothing to see here.

~I don't see anything either
(slip deleted)
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Post Post #258 (isolation #11) » Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:06 am

Post by NotMara »

That is a good case by Voodoo. I really have nothing to add to it, but it deserves my vote. As Generic mentioned a few posts back, his response to it was horrible. Particularly, the "wanna tango" post was cringe-worthy.

Vote: Taskmaster


Also, Silence, what question have I not answered? I looked through the last 100 posts or so and didn't see any. Please clarify - maybe I missed something.

~Rob
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Post Post #264 (isolation #12) » Fri Jul 12, 2013 3:15 am

Post by NotMara »

Pressure vote yielded very little info from Taskmaster's response. I need to reset and reread.

Unvote


~Rob
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Post Post #352 (isolation #13) » Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:29 pm

Post by NotMara »

@Mara - Helpful mod tip. If you post when the latest post ends in the following numbers, then you'll get top of page: 24, 49, 74, 99. Top of page is numbers that are multiples of 25.


Still need to ISO people, but I have some stuff going on in real life, so that's delayed by a bit. Targeting it for this weekend on Sunday, probably.

~Rob
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Post Post #406 (isolation #14) » Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:37 am

Post by NotMara »

My dad's in town for the weekend so I've been kind of busy, but I'll just leave this here in the meantime. I've set aside time tonight to dig back through the game and make a reads list.

Vote: Treble


"No one is making good cases. I was going to post reads/cases, but since no one else is, I'll just complain about the lack of reads/cases instead." <-- Not town
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Post Post #407 (isolation #15) » Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:41 am

Post by NotMara »

Also, on the TaskMaster note, which I'll also dig into more later. You have one option as a hydra. You can sign your posts or you can't claim hydra dissonance as an excuse for contradictions. Hydra dissonance is very possible as the reason for inconsistencies in posting from a hydra, but if you refuse to take a very simple step to let us identify whether it's an inconsistency or hydra dissonance, then you can't then invoke hydra dissonance as a defense. If you do that, you're just trying to hide sketchy behavior behind the excuse of "BUUUUUT I'M A HYDRAAAAAAAA" without trying to make yourself open to being read.

So yeah...if you don't start signing your posts, expect my vote if you try to explain away future inconsistencies by invoking hydra dissonance as an unverifiable excuse.

Having said that, Taskmaster is a town read of mine at the moment, which I'll explain more when I write out reads later tonight.

~Rob
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Post Post #413 (isolation #16) » Sun Jul 14, 2013 9:46 am

Post by NotMara »

In post 411, Rob14 wrote:Are you describing Karnage or yourself?

~Rob
Fail.
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Post Post #485 (isolation #17) » Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:29 am

Post by NotMara »

I've been busy/lazy, but I am working on this game RIGHT NOW and will continue to do so until I have a substantive post with detailed reads and reasoning for all of them on all players. Might take a few hours, though, to compile it all.
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Post Post #488 (isolation #18) » Mon Jul 15, 2013 4:03 pm

Post by NotMara »

Ok, reads time.

Voodoo Lady:


I like Voodoo if only by process of elimination. Early in their first post, I could potentially see them as scum trying to manipulate me away from Generic (by claiming that I "quietly dismissed" my case on Siv, forcing me to circle back and talk about it when I clearly said why I stopped talking about it earlier - it wasn't my best lead). This could be either a scum move to move me off Generic (meaning that Voodoo is scum with Generic) or a town move trying to hold me accountable for my reads. Voodoo's next post (#82) is questioning Generic and calling him out for dodging stuff. It doesn't make sense for Scum-Voodoo partnered with Generic to try hard to throw my attention off of him only to circle back around and make him the subject of conversation. By process of elimination, that makes him town.

Later call-outs of TIP for refusing to get involved, good analysis of Sound of Silence, and all around good scum-hunting instead of picking the low-hanging fruit makes Voodoo a fairly obvious
Strong Town
read.

Sound of Silence:


Have I still not answered your question about Siv? Damn - forgot all about it and re-discovered it in your ISO. He's not a super-serious or super-laid back player, he falls somewhere in the middle in the limited experience I have with him (1 game). I do know from games that I've spectated though that he lurks more and contributes less as scum than town, which is some of the reason for my initial concern. This paragraph has nothing to do with a read on SoS, I just wanted to make sure I finally answered this.

SoS overall hasn't raised any town or scum flags for me. I don't really have much else to say on him at all. He has some semi-decent analysis, but nothing that stands out as something that has a great town motivation or a great scum motivation.
Null read


Karnage:


I wish Karnage was a bit more active and I had more to work with, but no scum flags raised from him. While I don't agree with them, persay, the callouts of Sakura were decently motivated. The general tone of #383 sounds like town that thinks they're onto something - I very rarely see that tone replicated from scum with any level of success. The only thing I don't like so far from Karnage is #416 - finds time to directly address a criticism of him, but not anything else in the game. I don't like that focus, but I do it too sometimes as town pressed for time. Not a huge deal, but worth noting. Overall, I have him as
Leaning Town.


TheIrishPope:


Early doc claim is a very weak town point in his favor, but he very quickly erased that for me. Way too occupied with the fact that I gave him weak town points from that. I specifically responded to that saying it was a VERY weak towntell and then later called him null to see his response. He gave the worst possible one by trying to remind me of the earlier town read. Overall, way too occupied with himself while not contributing anything or scumhunting in any way in the early game. He also directly refused to participate when asked too - very anti-town. Continues RVS jokes all the way to #164 but continues to refuse to participate in any fashion.

#182 is another post that demonstrates him being overly concerned about himself. When he finally decides to kind of participate in the 200s (still not really, though) he doesn't scumhunt and consistently goes after low-hanging fruit if he decides to state reads or make arguments at all.

Oh, hey, just got to the part where TIP scum-claims. Yeah, I just said that. Let's rewind to the 200s. In #240, TIP claims Hana claimed scum and should be lynched. He unvotes here in #251. In #263, when questioned on the abrupt turn-around, he claims it was a reaction test and Hana's response was good enough to get an unvote. Except...Hana had no posts between #240 and #251. So this is a blatant lie. Lying about motivations for your actions is a pretty obvious scum indicator.

TIP continues to blatantly slip by without contributing anything of substance or offering any detailed reads for a long, long time. Nothing else worth talking about - it's a whole lot of the same behavior. Nothing even remotely shows town motivation. TIP is a fairly obvious
Strong Scum
read.

Mutleyddmc:


No reasoning to anything. Playing incredibly anti-town. Tries to stir up some action in my direction by misrepping me (taking a statement that anyone playing a certain way deserves a lynch if only to make them play better to equal me saying we should policy lynch that player and that I don't believe them scum, despite the fact that I'd clearly stated that I believed the person to be scum for a long time) but doesn't follow through with a vote or anything else. I generally hate someone trying to stir up action without committing to it themselves - that's not a good sign. Generally isn't driving any scum-hunting himself - none that I'm able to detect anyway. Having said that, while this is all anti-town behavior, it is not inherently scummy behavior. The only thing that is scummy here is the stirring up action without committing a vote, but that could just be consistent with meta -
Does anyone have meta on mutley to be able to confirm/deny that? Does he tend to be stingy with his vote?


Overall,
Null read
but he is 100% not someone that makes it into LyLo.

Ok, I have to take a break from this - I'll continue ISOing people and compiling reads tomorrow morning. In the meantime:

Unvote
Vote: TIP
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Post Post #490 (isolation #19) » Mon Jul 15, 2013 4:37 pm

Post by NotMara »

That wall was all me by the way - not sure where Maestro is at nowadays.

Also, if you don't want to read the entire wall, I highlighted and color-coded the reads themselves for you. One part you SHOULD read is the TIP area, especially because I highlighted a major contradiction in there that I think everyone missed.

~Rob
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Post Post #496 (isolation #20) » Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:24 pm

Post by NotMara »

Uh...what? You wanted to see Hana's reaction to...less pressure?
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Post Post #513 (isolation #21) » Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:20 pm

Post by NotMara »

Check the numbers next to the names of players voted, Mara. Some are inaccurate.

~Rob

~Fixed
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Post Post #536 (isolation #22) » Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:44 am

Post by NotMara »

In post 535, Siveure DtTrikyp wrote:
In post 533, Generic wrote:I only have distinct reads on 3 or 4 of you, so at this stage in the game I don't think that counts as a scumtell.
Sure. But if you were to say your reads, would you say "A is townish, B is townish, C is scummy, D is scummy, E is null, F is null..." or something like "A is townish, B is scummy, everyone else is null."
The latter. Absolutely the latter. When I make a reads list, I go through and individually ISO all players and develop the reads that way. It's easier to list them how d3f did in this instance, since you develop the reads one at a time. It's absolutely a playstyle thing, not an alignment thing, unless you have strong compelling meta on him that suggests otherwise.

I mean, just look at my partial reads list (although I gave more in the way of reasoning there).

~Rob
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Post Post #552 (isolation #23) » Thu Jul 18, 2013 5:16 am

Post by NotMara »

Anyone want to summarize the case on d3f? Because I'm looking through his posts and just not seeing it.
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Post Post #553 (isolation #24) » Thu Jul 18, 2013 5:18 am

Post by NotMara »

I would also ask that no one hammer until that has happened. I'm extremely wary of some of the people on this wagon, TIP especially.

~ Rob
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Post Post #556 (isolation #25) » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:01 am

Post by NotMara »

Except that that clearly wasn't all there was to the transition. In #430 (the post BEFORE you attacked him), he had changed his read on you to null and listed you as the 4th most scummy in the game. The transition isn't nearly as sudden as you make it out to be - which is another point against you, for the record.

Anyone have a
real
reason to be lynching D3f? I assume there must be a better case than this on the table.

~Rob
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Post Post #564 (isolation #26) » Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:46 am

Post by NotMara »

In post 559, D3f3nd3r wrote:Scum would have self-hammered.
Eww. Bad post.

Still, I'm having trouble getting past TIP being on D3f this hard. The lack of convincing case from people on the wagon also makes me think this is a bit of a witch-hunt led by scum. This isn't a
bad
lynch, persay, but it's also not a good one. D3f might be a good compromise lynch, but not a good first choice. It's definitely not solid enough to be worth ending the day this early over.

~Rob
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Post Post #596 (isolation #27) » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:20 am

Post by NotMara »

With day-talk in play, that just earned both D3f and Sakura some major scum points. Still, TIP is my stronger read, so I'm still holding onto hope that people will spare him a second glance.

~Rob
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Post Post #600 (isolation #28) » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:44 am

Post by NotMara »

In post 598, Generic wrote:
In post 596, NotMara wrote:With day-talk in play, that just earned both D3f and Sakura some major scum points. Still, TIP is my stronger read, so I'm still holding onto hope that people will spare him a second glance.

~Rob
Sorry, can I crank it back there, I missed this latest development. Day talk?
Well, you're confirmed town now in my eyes.

Mafia have day-talk in this setup. They can talk during day AND night. This was mentioned in thread a bit ago. This reaction looks 100% natural and like you missed it in thread - something I doubt you would have missed if you were mafia (especially since the mafia talked about it in the QT when it was brought up in-thread, no doubt).

~Rob
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Post Post #605 (isolation #29) » Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:04 am

Post by NotMara »

In post 600, NotMara wrote:This was mentioned in thread a bit ago.
I suppose his chances of missing it the first time are around the same as your chances of missing the fact that I already addressed this the first time.

I think that town could genuinely miss you talking about day-talk earlier in the thread. Since I'm assuming someone in scum would bring up the fact that we talked about it in-thread within their QT (since it's highly relevant to scum) and scum members would follow their own QT quite closely, scum would be very unlikely to actually miss the talk about day-talk in thread and then wouldn't try to fake this type of reaction.

~Rob
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Post Post #609 (isolation #30) » Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:31 pm

Post by NotMara »

1. Nice leading question.
2. Logic doesn't dictate that. Scum who was aware it had already been mentioned directly in-thread wouldn't even have it cross their mind that they should fake it, frankly - definitely not for a player as new as Generic.
3. Why on earth would I, as scum, want to buddy up to Generic who has been a weak link in this game for a long time? I'd want to push a rather easy lynch if I were scum and he was town. That theory makes no sense.

You're seriously reaching to try to keep me and Generic on the table as scum-reads. And yet, at the same time, you're not committing a vote while staying on the wagon of someone. This is scum motivated.

Your recent play has been bad. You are scum. TIP and D3f are likely your partners. Game over. You lose. Good day, sir.

And on that note, I'm ready to end this day. Intent to hammer.
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Post Post #610 (isolation #31) » Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:34 pm

Post by NotMara »

Massive scum gambit detected.

Sakura comes in thread and "votes" D3f so that he can say he's town after the "hammer". This will (hopefully) make him look town. Either way, it gives TIP, who's been tunneling D3f for quite a while in an attempt at bussing, and excuse to get his vote off of D3f without looking too suspicious. TIP drops his vote and seeds the idea that D3f must be town because of his reaction.

When that doesn't work so well, Sakura tries to focus attention elsewhere with some far-reaching smoke-screening and attempts to find some last-minute justification to move her vote off of D3f before a hammer. I expect to see her move her vote based on my intent to hammer very shortly.
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Post Post #636 (isolation #32) » Sat Jul 20, 2013 3:59 am

Post by NotMara »

At the risk of wading into self-meta territory, that really is not my MO as scum. A casual glance through my games would reveal that I'm an aggressive motherfucker as both alignments - I typically lead wagons as both town and scum, like what I did with Generic.
In post 623, Sakura Hana wrote:You provoking me wont work you know...
Is ... is this a scum claim?

~Rob
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Post Post #638 (isolation #33) » Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:39 am

Post by NotMara »

Vote: D3f


That's the hammer.
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Post Post #651 (isolation #34) » Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:13 pm

Post by NotMara »

Why are people claiming whether or not they used their PGO? That's dumb.

Vote: TIP


Can we just quick-lynch TIP?

~Rob
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Post Post #659 (isolation #35) » Tue Jul 23, 2013 3:32 pm

Post by NotMara »

In post 652, Sakura Hana wrote:Why do you wanna quicklynch him tho, because he said Def was town?
Are you TIP's partner? Serious question.

He didn't say D3f was town. He did a lot more than that. He stayed on d3f's wagon the entire day, then hopped off of it with shitty reasoning. He then, once shown that the reasoning was bad, never hopped back onto the wagon. He also urged me to hammer, despite keeping his own vote off the wagon. He then opens the next day saying scum must have been pushing the wagon, showing only the final wagon. Yeah - I'll tell you what scum pushed the wagon - TIP. He distanced himself from it late by unvoting to keep his name off it while STILL pushing it. This is like Scum 101.

Also, #653 reeks of inside information. Pulls up an old and obscure post to try to make a case on a player that a lot of people had earlier suspicions on based entirely off WIFOM reasoning of a choice of NK.

This is so, so obvious. If TIP isn't lynched this day and he flips scum (or worse...wins), I'm raging at you all. You have been warned.

~Rob
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Post Post #728 (isolation #36) » Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:48 am

Post by NotMara »

At this point, I'm going to stop signing my posts because Maestro still hasn't arrived. Assume everything is from Rob unless you're told otherwise. bah

Also, I do not consider TIP and Sakura mutually exclusive in any way. Lately, I think them being part of a team is actually pretty likely. Sakura basically imploded over the last few pages, but I'd still prefer a TIP lynch.
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Post Post #760 (isolation #37) » Wed Jul 24, 2013 8:14 am

Post by NotMara »

Did people somehow miss TIP self-voting? Can we get on with the lynch please?
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Post Post #766 (isolation #38) » Wed Jul 24, 2013 8:58 am

Post by NotMara »

Isn't the fact that we're lynching her tomorrow already basically decided? I'm just not a fan of wasting time.

Also, Sakura, I think I hit the jackpot here. You used the word "also" in #764 and TIP used the same word in #205. Coincidence? I think not! /s
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Post Post #788 (isolation #39) » Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:43 am

Post by NotMara »

Sakura, claim. This is intent to hammer.
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Post Post #790 (isolation #40) » Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:46 am

Post by NotMara »

Oh wait, this is an open. No claims are necessary.

Vote: Sakura
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Post Post #792 (isolation #41) » Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:48 am

Post by NotMara »

If you're actually town, you're on my blacklist now. I don't play with people who self-vote as town. It's against the rules for playing against your win-con.
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Post Post #795 (isolation #42) » Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:50 am

Post by NotMara »

So, this is your idea of a gambit?

>Do something scummy
>Wait for someone to call it scummy
>OMG FOUND SCUM

That's not how a gambit works. No-one is going to be "caught out" as scum for calling a spade a spade.
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Post Post #802 (isolation #43) » Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:54 am

Post by NotMara »

I'm peaceing out until the next day, so that I can actually see the flip and not get WIFOM'd by this.
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Post Post #808 (isolation #44) » Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:38 am

Post by NotMara »

Vote: TheIrishPope


Everyone sheep me please.
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Post Post #809 (isolation #45) » Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:39 am

Post by NotMara »

Mutley is town, by the way, due to interaction with Sakura in twilight.
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Post Post #812 (isolation #46) » Sat Jul 27, 2013 6:16 pm

Post by NotMara »

See #659 for detailed reasons of why you're Scummy McScum in this game.
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Post Post #814 (isolation #47) » Sat Jul 27, 2013 6:57 pm

Post by NotMara »

That's just a blatant lie.
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Post Post #816 (isolation #48) » Sat Jul 27, 2013 7:37 pm

Post by NotMara »

Reading back a bit for stuff, and I noticed some stuff that popped, so let's throw it down here.
In post 660, Sakura Hana wrote:I'm not opposed to a TIP lynch, but I think we should be trying to find possible connections by now, we got a whole day there's no need to rush a lynch.

About your question: No.
Translation: I don't want to bus my partner now, but I will if I have to, so let's keep the possibility open while seeing if anything else pops that I can get behind instead.
In post 690, Treble wrote:TiP is also fishy but he's innocent until proven guilty.
What the hell does that mean? Please explain. From my point of view, this posting comes from scum with TiP or potentially town with a silly reason to post this.
In post 715, Treble wrote:Question to all: Can TiP + Hana be scum together or are they mutually exclusive? I'd personally think that they can possibly be both scum.

However I find Hana scummier as of this moment.
This posting, on the other hand, either comes from scum IF either TiP or Hana is town OR town. We know Hana is scum, so this would have to be scum with a town TiP or just town. Combine this with the last post's possible motivations, and imo, Treble is town.
In post 769, Sakura Hana wrote:Task: What do you think of Generic and NotMara wanting to end the day early, and NotMara's double standard logic from D1?
AKA: flinging shit at the wall to see what sticks when TIP is at L-1 with stated intent to hammer. obv scum-partners are obv. lynch with fire.

LOL. TIP self-voted. Someone states intent to hammer. He unvotes. This does not get scummier, folks. The self-vote by town is only done when town genuinely wants to be lynched/ has given up but is too much of a scumbag to actually replace out instead of throwing the game. The unvote upon likely lynch proves that this wasn't the case. Remaining option is scum trying to gambit his way out of a FUBAR situation - something that TIP would totally try, based on his meta.

And now onto quotes to throw in TiP's face, which was my original reason to skim back through the thread:
In post 735, Generic wrote:Notmara makes a good point about his actions with the defender wagon.
In post 772, Sound of Silence wrote:I'll review these events to be sure they match your presentation, but this is a pretty coherent case.
My case is convincing people, because it makes sense. It's so obvious it hurts. I'm now going to rage out of here. I'm on V/LA until 8/1 (will have internet access but be out of town, so expect some posting but not much - certainly not walls). I expect TIP to be lynched when I get back. Make it happen people, I have faith in you.
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Post Post #818 (isolation #49) » Sat Jul 27, 2013 7:44 pm

Post by NotMara »

TIP, I'm sorry that I'm proving you to be scum, but please give the people in the game some credit. They realize I'm making a substantial case. Either argue against it on its merits or self-vote. The rest of the folks in the game are smart enough to see that it's worth looking into, at the very least, and they're not going to just ignore it because you tell them they should.
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Post Post #838 (isolation #50) » Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:27 am

Post by NotMara »

Treble, you so silly. As Siv said, read between the bold and you'll get something a lot different. First post you quoted wouldn't have come from scum if TIP is town, because there'd be no reason to try to avoid hopping on the wagon while acknowledging he's scummy like that. Second post you quoted wouldn't have come from scum if both TIP and Hana were also scum, because you would be lining up lynches on your scum partners.

We know Hana is town, so that leaves the possibility (if you're scum) of you being scum with a town TIP or a scum TIP. Based on those two posts, I think neither is likely. Therefore, you are town. Although, to be honest, your last post makes me rethink that. You just majorly misrepped me by literally ignoring some of what you quoted in favor of bolding some stuff out of context and calling it bad logic. You then said my case on TIP should be discarded because the misrep'd version of my case on you isn't good. lolwut? Don't be a TIP - if you want to attack my case, do so on its own merits.

Siv - that gambit was obvious and just a generally bad idea.

Also, Mutley, Generic is town. I promise. Both Hana and TIP tried to push stuff onto him all game. I'll give some examples after a TIP flip, but I seriously doubt Generic is scum at this point.
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Post Post #841 (isolation #51) » Sun Jul 28, 2013 4:10 am

Post by NotMara »

Yes, but not in the way that TIP tried to direct pressure onto Generic at the start of day 2 through NK WIFOM - that was clearly preplanned, and bussing is rarely preplanned to that degree. Seriously doubt TIP and Generic are scum together.

Treble - you said you were waiting for another vote to be placed to hammer TIP, but you didn't vote in your last post while he's at L-1 (or state intent to hammer and ask for a claim). What gives?

Meanwhile, since I'm gone the next few days: If I'm not around when next day starts, pressure Treble quite a bit. Remaining scum after TIP is like 85% likely to be in {Treble, Sound of Silence} and 100% likely to be in {Treble, Sound of Silence, Siv}. BYE GUYS - GOING TO A THEME PARK NOW.
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Post Post #853 (isolation #52) » Sun Jul 28, 2013 1:58 pm

Post by NotMara »

In post 842, Treble wrote:"no way tip and treble could be scum together no way"
When did I say that?
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Post Post #854 (isolation #53) » Sun Jul 28, 2013 1:58 pm

Post by NotMara »

In post 852, TheIrishPope wrote:Mara da fack
Also, this.
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Post Post #863 (isolation #54) » Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:33 pm

Post by NotMara »

Since when does TIP say he's the 1v1 master?
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Post Post #867 (isolation #55) » Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:28 am

Post by NotMara »

What? That doesn't read like a prod dodge. It reads like a substantive read on TIP. Why is that, Siv?
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Post Post #871 (isolation #56) » Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:43 am

Post by NotMara »

Unvote


Will explain in next post, but don't want a hammer now.
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Post Post #872 (isolation #57) » Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:45 am

Post by NotMara »

I'm normally not one to drag a day on...like at all (see last day)...but I want more info out of Siv today. He's been quiet and generally exactly like I remember his play when we were on a scum-team together. I want to hear more about that "prod dodge" and pressure him a bit more before the day is over, even if he's not the likely lynch target for the day. I could easily seeing him be tomorrow's lynch.
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Post Post #877 (isolation #58) » Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:25 am

Post by NotMara »

Yeah, I don't buy that at all. If TIP flips scum, then Siv should follow as the lynch.

Vote: TIP


I'm ready for end of day now.
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Post Post #892 (isolation #59) » Tue Jul 30, 2013 4:07 am

Post by NotMara »

Siv said on the same page that he both didn't see the hammer and did a "fake" unvote intentionally to be a troll (basically). This is a Sakura-level implosion.

I'm thinking you should only be lynched if TIP flips because you've both dropped a crap ton of relational tells. Don't have time to explain now - more on that tomorrow if I'm alive. I'm off to drive 3 hours to see family. Woo!

:|

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