Open 551: Hard Boiled - GAME OVER

[Not_Mafia]

VOTE: protector

[Not_Mafia]

VOTE: protector

Okay that's L-1

[Not_Mafia]

Oh that was quickhammer. Whoopsie

[Not_Mafia]

You can't undo hammers Egg, scum move
UNVOTE: protector
VOTE: egg

[Not_Mafia]

Lia should have unvoted after saying that. formerfish's reasoning was bull but could be a joke, that's all I have to say right now

[Not_Mafia]

Read serrendipitous as duplicitous.

UNVOTE: egg
VOTE: ChennelDelibird

For that omgus

[Not_Mafia]

Some questions for everyone

How much forum mafia experience do you have, mafia scum or otherwise?
Are you the mafia?
How many games were released on the N64 in North America? Guesses only please if you google you are scum

[Not_Mafia]

CD is shutting down discussion on the fact that Dritan sheeped on something and then admitted he didn't know what he was sheeping. Also CD, you should answer my first question at the very least.

[Not_Mafia]

Why is it more worthwhile for you to be asking him what he thinks of Lia calling the wagon surreptitious than the fact he sheeped something then asked what he was sheeping? You are moving the discussion on to something that gives him an easy out

[Not_Mafia]

Well the vote wasn't explicitly justified and I explained my thoughts just above.

I was pressuring him mainly, post 60 assuaged any doubts I had.

VOTE: Dritan

Explain yourself Sir Scummy Scumbutt Scummington

[Not_Mafia]

Why are pictures suspicious?

I didn't see CDB's justification for voting Lia

And how about we just let Dritan respond instead of excusing him as a newb.

As for post 52, question 1 is perfectly fine and 2 and 3 are harmless, they can help check people's attitudes

[Not_Mafia]

Pictures usually mean you want to be liked.

Then, why was cdb's vote scummy? And still standing, why is dritan scummy?

We're out of RVS so there should be an explanation attached to a vote.

And I've mentioned what I want Dritan to address

Lia should have unvoted after saying that

I'm beginning to think this may be a serendipitous wagon.

then why didnt you unvote ?

Read serrendipitous as duplicitous.

He sheeped on my misunderstanding then admitted he didn't know what he was sheeping

I was reading it as more likely noob town aswell, but let's not give people outs before they can respond to a question

[Not_Mafia]

Just pointing out that post 52 has actually generated content

[Not_Mafia]

Well neither is exactly spectacular. You should contribute now that you're here then. Post some reads.

VOTE: Kid A

for his terrible guess

[Not_Mafia]

Replace dodge.

Kid A's response was weak. He is activity posting.

[Not_Mafia]

Your posts aren't self explanatory KidA, you need to actually explain your accusations

[Not_Mafia]

Do you realise how scummy you are acting? You haven't ever tried to actually explain your posts despite people asking you to until now, you don't just get to troll and place random votes and say random crap until someone gets bored and stops asking you what you're doing

[Not_Mafia]

You want passive agressive, I'll give you passive agressive...

Reading it back it does come off quite aggressive, what I'm saying is, he has been called out for failing to provide reasoning a few times now, then when someone doesn't ask him he hops on a scumread on them, it's contrived

[Not_Mafia]

You want passive agressive, I'll give you passive agressive...

Spoiler:

Reading it back it does come off quite aggressive, what I'm saying is, he has been called out for failing to provide reasoning a few times now, then when someone doesn't ask him he hops on a scumread on them, it's contrived

That's nicer

[Not_Mafia]

Right now I think he's scum, I think he's trying to pass off what he's been doing as a reaction test, waiting for someone to stop reacting to him and then exclaiming "aha! they didn't ask me about my vote!" I think he panicked when the wagon started on him and he's now using a contrived act to try and excuse his behaviour.

[Not_Mafia]

You caught me. gg no re.

[Not_Mafia]

Btw my partners are KidA and Antihero. I hate bussers except for when I do it so I'm gamethrowing, mods come at me.

To be serious though, Antihero, what did you think of KidA's vote on Earthquake?

[Not_Mafia]

Do you realise how scummy you are acting? You haven't ever tried to actually explain your posts despite people asking you to until now, you don't just get to troll and place random votes and say random crap until someone gets bored and stops asking you what you're doing

VOTE: not_mafia

Oh
My
God
U
Suck

Why the vote you must enlighten us?

VOTE: KidA

Am I town now?

[Not_Mafia]

Tbh, Not_Mafia's reasons for votes have been pretty weak thus far too, despite him including them:

Spoiler:

VOTE: protector

Covered (band)wagon.

How is it covering when I literally posted a picture of a wagon

You can't undo hammers Egg, scum move
UNVOTE: protector
VOTE: egg

What must be sort of a joke, right? Cause otherwise this is crazy ridiculous.

Yes this was a joke vote

Read serrendipitous as duplicitous.

UNVOTE: egg
VOTE: ChennelDelibird

For that omgus

As he says, OMGUS.

NOt sure what your point is on this one

Well the vote wasn't explicitly justified and I explained my thoughts just above.

I was pressuring him mainly, post 60 assuaged any doubts I had.

VOTE: Dritan

Explain yourself Sir Scummy Scumbutt Scummington

There isn't a reason? Except sort of what he says earlier, that Dritan sheeped on CDB, except Dritan sort of didn't?

I said he sheeped on my misunderstanding of Lia's post not on CDB, which I quoted and clearly showed. So either this is misrepping or you need to re-read

Well neither is exactly spectacular. You should contribute now that you're here then. Post some reads.

VOTE: Kid A

for his terrible guess

For A's lack of contribution/bad guessing. That last vote of his is also for Kid A, for dramatic effect it seems.

Why is that a poor reason? My last vote on KidA was sarcasm showing how silly his argument on Earthquake is, according to him that's how a townie should have responded to his naked vote.

TL;DR: Voting Not_Mafia makes sense, although once again there's people already voting him who don't seem to have as good a reason to as they should.

Vote: Not_Mafia

To be serious though, Antihero, what did you think of KidA's vote on Earthquake?

nah, i got a better question/suggestion

there's a lack of quill in you iso. fix that.

Fair enough remark, I've responded to Quill now it's your turn, what did you think of KidA's vote on earthquake and his subsequent scumread?

[Not_Mafia]

I was so sure this was a scum slot. But its not,

Why say this the moment you replace in?

[Not_Mafia]

VOTE: KidA

[Not_Mafia]

Here we go on the wibbidy whaaa?

[Not_Mafia]

Is that so?

[Not_Mafia]

I'm not sure but I want to see his answer. In a previous game I've been in, someone hammered me then subbed out in the same post, his sub said something similar and turned out to be scum, when they were questioned on it they dodged the question, so I wanna see his response.

[Not_Mafia]

I haven't played witb anybody here before, if enough people vouch that kind of behaviour is within KidA's town meta I'll move my vote but in any case his play isn't helpful

[Not_Mafia]

You can say you think the reason for some of my votes are poor but you're not establishing a case against me as what I am doing is scum motivated. You seem just to be following the philosiphy of throwing enough shit at the wall and hoping some it will stickk.

A large part of the CDB vote was pressure to get him to clarify why he placed that vote, which didn't have a reason attached and I have stated this a few times.

You seem to "missed" quite a few crucial pieces of information in the thread in regards to who you're attacking.

[Not_Mafia]

Feeling Quill as scum more right now VOTE: Quill

[Not_Mafia]

If you move to Quill we can fake hammer again

[Not_Mafia]

But I'm Not_Mafia

[Not_Mafia]

Buuuuuut, basically...Kid A's town because his posting comes from a town mindset. Earthquake's scum because their posting comes from a rather transparent scum mindset. (CDB gives off similar vibes, but I'm actually calling CDB the weaker read, since him being from that older generation, it's difficult to be certain that what I picked up on holds validity.) Kid A's posting seems to have no ulterior motive behind it, whereas Earthquake's play is highly artificial.

Okay, that explanation sucks. I'll try to think of a better way of saying it.

please talk to me about cbd

CDB's posting looks like logical scum rather than relic-town is the core version. Basically, CDB comes from an era of a different site meta, and you can tell that (regardless of whether he's adjusted to current site meta or not) he's antiquated. The thing is, his play immediately came off as being antiquated-scum rather than town.

(...See above for further details. )

That was all really vague, any chance you could expand on those point/reads? In paticular how has the meta changed, I'm not asking for an essay or anything just enough so I can understand your read on CDB

P.S I thought I saw a wolf in your avatar and when I quoted this post I realised that there is no wolf. I like wolves and I am disappointed, what are you going to do about this?

P.S.S Sorry for your loss

[Not_Mafia]

Quill seems to jump on any and every wagon, I'm surprised he didn't self vote earlier

[Not_Mafia]

Mastin and AP are a de facto double voting hydra at this point

[Not_Mafia]

I feel like I've wandered into a skype chat between AP and Mastin

[Not_Mafia]

There's got to be at least one scum still alive

[Not_Mafia]

I'm glad to see you're catching on

[Not_Mafia]

Quill, what are you trying to accomplish with your last couple of posts other than appealing for town cred?

Also, who wants to place a bet on how many votes CDB can get to before Quill jumps on his wagon?

[Not_Mafia]

Not mafia. Not mafia? I disliked his recent post about Quill. It was SUCH a potshot on a player largely considered scummy that 1) discredits a potential future post by Quill and 2) buddies up to people who suspect Quill anyways. In general, his light hearted posting style is more likely to come from town (especially considering hes a newish player) but part of the issue with that read is that Im getting the impresison this guy is NOT a strictly newish player, so he very well could be invoking some intermediate level scumposting here. I just skimmed over his ISO which really doesn't have anything super-town looking in it (Aside from his overall attitude that I just waffled on). His votes are all for fairly easy reasons. Actually Post 178 seems more likely from town than not. Null leaning slightly town, paranoid though.

Just to be transparent about my experience.

I started playing off site in mid January, I have 2 completed games off site (Matix 6, Nomination mafia 11p)
2 ongoing offsite (both role madness)
3 ongoing here (Matrix 6, Duck Duck Goose and this)

I have more to say about that post on Quill but not until he responds; basically I think they were weak AtE and posting fluff designed to look like scumhunting, e.g. "there's at least 1 scum on my wagon" whoop dee doo. I haven't really found anything to latch on to in this game that I have in others, I'm usually louder than I am here.

I'll consider CDB wagon after Quill responds, I still don't really like his v.early posting even though everyone else thought I was being foolish and his disappearance is certainly discouraging.

I still think Quill is scum as I don't see anything that would give a semblance of being helpful, just sheeping depending on where general concencus dirfts.

Antihero's posting style kinds of rubs me the wrong way, I don't know if it's necessarily alignment indicative but he's on my radar, he seems to be keeping his option open in regards to wagons and scumreads.

I wouldn't be surprised if you and mastin were scum clogging the thread and artificially inflating your post count. A lot of Mastin's posting has been really vague and rambly if not devoid of content, I don't really get a scumread off it but I don't exactly get a townread off it either.

I'm still skeptical of you due to the slot you replaced in on and that first post, plus what I said above.

Formerfish is on my radar, egg's town, chamber's town, Zar's posting style is really weird and has me second guessing myself a lot, if he is town I hope he dies as my read on him is really murky. KidA seems more town to me lately but his posting style still irks me. Lia's another one where I keep second guessing myself though not to the level of Zar. i think that's everyone.

There's my attempt at a more serious post, it's all I can really muster out of this game so far

[Not_Mafia]

Well you were voteparked on me for a long time saying stuff like this

/ugh

i hate the quill wagon because of earthquake
and i hate the earthquake wagon because of quill

and you've been scumreading quite a few people without really purusing any particular one or two

[Not_Mafia]

yes, and this is scummy because....

It gives you an excuse to be on any potential mislynch, notice how I merely said you were on my radar, it's just something I'm keeping in mind

if i wanted to vote quill or earthquake, i would have voted quill or earthquake

Obviously

the "keeping open" theory rests on a stupid premise

Scum don't like to keep their options open?

p.s. - i'm still scumreading you

Oh noes

[Not_Mafia]

There's nothing stopping you hopping on but there could be something down the line stopping you hopping off, your posting allows you to keep multiple wagons open so you can easily hop on to whichever one ends up with full intent to lynch.

[Not_Mafia]

Well there's a counter wagon on CDB forming so it isn't set in stone yet, scum wanting multiple lynch options really isn't complicated at all, it would help if you responded constructively instead of "I don't know what this means" and "your theory makes no sense" and saying stuff that doesn't actually counter my argument like "well there was a wagon I could have gone on".

[Not_Mafia]

there

were

clear frontrunners that are pretty close to actually being lynched; therefore there's no scum advantage to "keeping options open".

if your criticism of me is that i'm indecisive, then get over it and it's not a scumtell.

"were" being the operative word, there is now a counterwagon on CDB, why did you jump on this one above all others? A scum advantage would be that if Quill is your partner you can try and avoid lynching him.

You seem to have had reacted pretty strongly to what I said I was keeping in mind as potentially scummy behaviour.

[Not_Mafia]

"were" being the operative word, there is now a counterwagon on CDB, why did you jump on this one above all others? A scum advantage would be that if Quill is your partner you can try and avoid lynching him.

that's not keeping options open, that's just flat out defending a scumbuddy and it's independent of how "decisive" i appear; i could be aggressively pushing a counterwagon or not

and that's not what you said originally

It isn't defending a scumbuddy it's floating a scumread on them so you can bus them if need be but not jumping on their wagon so you still have an excuse to jump on a future counterwagon i.e CDB's. Also I don't know why you're putting decisive in quotation marks since you've brought that up.

It isn't what i said originally but it doesn't contradict it either, I was responding to you saying that there's no scum advantage to what you're doing, I'm providing one. How could I have said this orignally?

If you're going to call my argument bullshit then it might help if you weren't misrepping

[Not_Mafia]

I'm enjoying AP's flip flop

[Not_Mafia]

I'm enjoying AP's flip flop

[Not_Mafia]

votes KidA for nothing

I pretty clearly stated my reasons for voting him, if you're talking about that naked vote then my vote was already on him

[Not_Mafia]

Nice try, but that isn't how town would respond to my accusation.

It isn't? That's odd cos I could I swear my role pm says I'm town

[Not_Mafia]

That isn't my criticism, this really isn't hard; it's not like I'm introducing some new revolutionary idea here, maybe you should re-read my posts

[Not_Mafia]

if you think i'm quill's/earthquake's buddy and i'm defending him, i could maybe see how you think that, but that's not the argument you made

you're twisting me trying to sort out / make sense of earthquake and quill into a scumtell and i think it's really frickin weaselly

This all spawned from some throwaway comment in my reads list, I didn't feel the need to present that hypothetical at that moment in time, you brought the conversation to that point so don't pretend I'm changing my argument or misrepping

And yes I think you could be scum with Quill

[Not_Mafia]

1) You aren't even remotely suspicious about my vote on you? If I voted you for nothing, might I be.... PLAYING TO A SCUM WINCON? I don't recall you having a read on me other than commenting on me/mastin being BFFs in the thread, soooo?
2) I DID talk about your KidA vote being scummy and you acknowledge that there (by defneding against it) whilst trying to argue there WAS NO CASE ON YOU? Ok. So play it off like my vote on you is 100% meaningless AND defend the case on you at the same time. Have your cake and eat it too then.
3) A townie would have been upset that I accused them of being anti-town. A scum player just sees that as a non-reason for being voted.

1) Did I say that? I saw your vote on me as a really transparent reaction test since if you are partnered with AH then when I flip town you'd look really scummy

2) I don't even know where this is coming from

3) As above, I saw it as a really transparent reaction test that I couldn't be bothered engaging, if you want to post quotes where you feel I'm being anti town I'll respond to them

[Not_Mafia]

This all spawned from some throwaway comment in my reads list, I didn't feel the need to present that hypothetical at that moment in time, you brought the conversation to that point so don't pretend I'm changing my argument or misrepping

And yes I think you could be scum with Quill

for every "throw away" comment, there's a thought process (at least if you're town), and i just wanted to know what it was.

i still don't know what it is.

and i don't think there is one. i think you just kind of repeated what AP was saying about me but changed it around a little so it looked like your original thought. and if it was your original thought, you would be able to explain it.

you can't.
it's fake.
you're scum.

If you are just going to misrep what I said and then say I haven't been to explain it and say my argument is fake then I'm just going to stop responding to you

[Not_Mafia]

none of that changes the fact that "keeping options open" is a really vague accusation and it's not inherently scummy

response or not

I didn't say it was inherently scummy, I said you were on my scum radar and I was keeping it in my mind as

potentially

scummy behaviour, I've said this a few times now. Your reaction to this "vague accusation" has been fun though.

[Not_Mafia]

I was just sharing my thoughts, I didn't anticipate this spawning from it

You guess correctly

[Not_Mafia]

Also, it's the way you've reacted to it that has amplified my scumread on you, I wasn't expecting you not to react to it at all

[Not_Mafia]

The Quill comment was more just me commenting on his sheeping in a facetious manner rather than any genuine agitation

[Not_Mafia]

1) Did I say that? I saw your vote on me as a really transparent reaction test since if you are partnered with AH then when I flip town you'd look really scummy

2) I don't even know where this is coming from

3) As above, I saw it as a really transparent reaction test that I couldn't be bothered engaging, if you want to post quotes where you feel I'm being anti town I'll respond to them

1) Your townread on me makes less than zero sense and has no progression. Now Im town because AH is DEFOSCUM (really?)
2) You tried to discredit my vote on you as baseless whilst simultaneously defending from an accusation I made previously.
3) , nooope. Nope nope. Nope. Townies actually give a shit when they are accused of playing poorly. And clearly you DIDNT think it was a reaction test because your gut reaction was to call mne out on FLIPFLOPPING.

1) I'm saying I don't think you and AH are partners

2) I asked about that KidA part because it wasn't true and I don't want any misconceptions out there, the other two points were valid, and I have already commented on them when people asked me about them earlier

3) That flip flopping comment was hasty of me

[Not_Mafia]

If you want to shitpost with boring kuribo nonsense then just do so, don't blame others for it.

[Not_Mafia]

i think he's agitated that he's now having to 1v1 me and he didn't plan on it because he had big brother AP (and mastin by proxy) on his side up until now

Yes please go easy on me they are the mario and luigi to my peach

[Not_Mafia]

@ earthquake I would expect townhim to comment on it calmly and constructively and move on, not misrep what I've said

[Not_Mafia]

Either this is town v town, in which case I don't think you're ever going to understand me. Or this is town v scum, in which case you're scum and there's nothing productive about me continuing to engage this

[Not_Mafia]

Not unless you hide behind chamber

[Not_Mafia]

Still prefer a Quill lynch, won't be on for deadline

[Not_Mafia]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Quill

Get Hammered

[Not_Mafia]

That was a fakehammer by me, mod hasn't closed the thread yet so someone should actually hammer Quill

[Not_Mafia]

Anyone paying attention knew my vote was on Quill

[Not_Mafia]

Oh wait deadline didn't pass this morning, I was looking at the VC on the first page

[Not_Mafia]

Such an unnecessary hammer :/

AP/FF/CDB imo

[Not_Mafia]

That's if Quill flips town, also, there's a difference between being on the wagon and premature hammering

[Not_Mafia]

VOTE: Chamber

investigative role etc

L-1 no hammering etc

[Not_Mafia]

VOTE: desperado major scum vibes off 548

[Not_Mafia]

Welp...

Anyway, notmaf, why did you decide no longer to vote chamber?

Because his reasoning for not using the day phase was nonsense, if Chamber is scum then AP -as a PR- would be the kill regardless

[Not_Mafia]

Everyone's a PR but me

[Not_Mafia]

Chamber/Desperado/Fish

[Not_Mafia]

Desperaado over EQ because I wasn't scumreading EQ d1 and for CDB flaking plus Desperado's early posting today

[Not_Mafia]

Nothing is happening so Chamber has one post to convince me not to hammer him

[Not_Mafia]

VOTE: formerfish

him or desperado today, don't particularly care which

[Not_Mafia]

Flashwagon to victory. AP will hopefully have another clean tomorrow. He should probably claim who he is hiding behind, As far as I can see there isn't any problem with him stating who he intends to hide behind

[Not_Mafia]

You today and if you flip hider then AP tomorrow, or Desperado today and you two agree to hide behind eachother

[Not_Mafia]

The tracker had a guilty and AP

crumbed

told us he was hider d1

[Not_Mafia]

Also. Any CCs must be done in your next post. We're in autowin regardless and there's no point stalling this game with (fake)claims later on.

PEdit: Because he was establishing if it was a gambit. I honestly have no reason to disbelieve AP, especially over you, him being hider fits in with his gambit and his targets make a tonne more sense than yours. You're getting lynched today.

[Not_Mafia]

VOTE: desperado

I'm fine with this.

AP your sacrifice will not be in vain

[Not_Mafia]

Fish you should have no problem hopping on this wagon since if you die tonight AP is getting autolynched and vice versa

[Not_Mafia]

VOTE: fish

Choo choo

[Not_Mafia]

I was baiting with that bs about voting desperado, and well Fish fell for it and AP didn't, plus I was trying to settle EQ vs Desp a little earlier as I just want this game to end. The chance of AP being scum and Fish being hider is about 1.3467936093892683%

PEdit: @Antihero When Fish flips scum then AP just claims if he is going on Desp or EQ and we have our final scum. AP could come to me if he wants but Zar's results makes me less likely (not clean)

[Not_Mafia]

Infact AP should claim who he's going to hide behind in his next post and well... gg

[Not_Mafia]

@AH Scum would also be eliminating one person from the scum pool and it would come down to 1 in 2, it's just potentially adding an extra day to the game. We're in autowin, game needs to end asap

[Not_Mafia]

AP do you intend to announce who you'll be hiding behind? Unless you really want to be here at endgame I see no reason not to

[Not_Mafia]

Yes

[Not_Mafia]

Honestly if I was the last scum I'd just confess

[Not_Mafia]

I'd prefer to wait for AP's answer to my question first but meh, hammer if you wish

[Not_Mafia]

I'd prefer to wait for AP's answer to my question first but meh, hammer if you wish

[Not_Mafia]

Spamming the mods inbox to distract him

[Not_Mafia]

UNVOTE: fish

Fake hammer go

[Not_Mafia]

Yes it was hammer

[Not_Mafia]

VOTE: desperado

[Not_Mafia]

This is autowin so just flashwagon one of us and by one of us I mean Desp

[Not_Mafia]

Ha! one more day.

I'm taking requests on who I kill tonight, everyone suggest someone and the person with the most suggestions will die, AP is not eligible for obvious reasons

[Not_Mafia]

I was kinda obvscum so I'm surprised I'm making it to day 5

[Not_Mafia]

We thought you might be a PR Anti, so we absolutely did NOT want me submitting the kill. We dun goofed

[Not_Mafia]

If I come up with a sob story will you guys let me win?

[Not_Mafia]

We killed Mastin hoping to make me look townier but that crapload of guiltys and innocents happened d2. oh well

[Not_Mafia]

Trollololololol

Egg is town MVP

[Not_Mafia]

Thanks to Shos for consistent hosting. Forgot to say that

[Not_Mafia]

The detective Psych choice is interesting. Maybe restrict the tracker and vig, make them even night for instance

[Not_Mafia]

Not Mafia:

I'm not sure what I can do to help you. You seem to be a bit in your youth as a player; as the game progressed, I noticed your posting evolved. You got better reads, reasoning, and an overall vibe the further along you went, and by the half-way point in your iso, were doing quite fine. I think that if you apply the skill at which you posted clearly and reasonably near the end throughout the whole game, you'd be much better, but this is just a guess from a skim. (Sorry I don't have anything more in-depth.)

Thank for the thoughts. I tend to agree with what you've said, by time I'd really settled in to the game we were on the autowin train.

Set-up does look townsided, but the sheer skill from Egg and AP and the accuracy with which they used their powers shouldn't be underestimated in this partcular game. Plus scum had an active lurker who got caught in PoE and a site flaker (which is apparently a scumtell for that player)