Open 551: Hard Boiled - GAME OVER

[Lia]

Vote: Protector

Suspected of running a protection racket. Your name gives you away!

[Lia]

If you stop voting me, maybe we can be townbuddies

Now why would I want to be buddies with a gangster?

[Lia]

I'm beginning to think this may be a serendipitous wagon.

[Lia]

Hmm. I actually didn't notice that comment from Lia was coming from the first vote on the wagon. I'm kind of curious why Lia stayed on the wagon at that point.

I stayed on because I was getting a little twinge from some of Protector's posts plus I wanted to wait and see if anyone took fright at the wagon. Unvoting then would have defeated that purpose. I've got a better feel about Protector now.

Egg's little by-play may have been made as a distraction to cover the fact that he wanted to unvote but didn't want to be too obvious about it.

A couple of CDB's posts are making me think he's protecting Dritan a bit.

I think I can see why Protector is voting Zar, and if it's what I'm thinking of then I agree with it.

@ Not_Mafia:

Why would you expect me to unvote if I thought the wagon was serendipitous? (I was going to ask Dritan this too but CDB has forestalled me on that.)

@ Dritan:

I was hoping to see your reaction to 9 and 18.

Vote: Egg

[Lia]

How? Why? As a (literal) professional pedant, I would nitpick at the misinterpretation of the word 'serendipitous' regardless of alignment.

So why didn't you ask him what he meant by his comment rather than just telling him he got it wrong? And more to the point, why didn't you leave his question to me for me to answer? It gives me the impression that you're not interested in seeing how we respond because you already know our alignments.

If it's what I'm thinking then it's nowhere near worth this secretive approach.

Maybe. But Zar hasn't responded to it yet.

[Lia]

Lia, fair on your reasons for staying on the wagon. I had that same twinge. But what makes you think I wanted to unvote?

I was following a hunch. When you first posted in the thread, instead of just jumping on the wagon, which would be quite unremarkable, you didn't even mention the wagon when you joined it and made a post which seemed a bit overdone, premeditated even.

I've got a better feel about Protector now.

How so?

A couple of CDB's posts are making me think he's protecting Dritan a bit.

I don't see in what way he's protecting dritan, can you elaborate?

1) Her good posts outweigh the ones I'm not so sure about.
2) CDB has responded to a couple of posts that were directed at Dritan before Dritan got to them.

So... Epiphanies of RVS votes turned serious don't sit well with me, actually. I find its easier for mafia-aligned players to find an excuse to not move their votes. Not really much of a fan of Lia's argument and move-out after Egg called her out.

(And yes, for those interested, I liked Channel's vote on Lia.)

Well, seeing as no epiphany was involved that shouldn't bother you then. The vote would have been moved whether or not Egg or anyone else said anything as there was no longer a reason to leave it there. Do you think there was?

What did you like about CDB's vote on me?

[Lia]

Well, seeing as no epiphany was involved that shouldn't bother you then. The vote would have been moved whether or not Egg or anyone else said anything as there was no longer a reason to leave it there. Do you think there was?

What did you like about CDB's vote on me?

Possibly because you had

just

stated you thought the wagon was "serendipitous"... if you thought you were getting lucky with the vote where it was, why was there no longer a reason to leave it there?

(This is also the reason why I liked the momentum on CDB's vote on you...)

I explained in 49 why I left the vote there and why there was no longer a reason to leave it there. "Getting a little twinge" is not the same as having an epiphany.

What do you mean by "the momentum on CDB's vote"?

Do you think that I am more likely to do that as scum than town? Why?

I don't know whether you would or not. But if I thought it was the former I would have voted you.

Vote: Zar

This is mainly gut.

[Lia]

I explained in 49 why I left the vote there and why there was no longer a reason to leave it there. "Getting a little twinge" is not the same as having an epiphany.

What do you mean by "the momentum on CDB's vote"?

I'm taking you missed where I already had said I didn't like the reasoning you used to move the vote in the same post I voted you.

CDB's vote comes as a direct result of your 49, it's what I was referring to. When I read it, I had a similar reaction to that post... (although admittedly mine comes from different reasoning).

I didn't miss your post. I just don't get how your not liking epiphanies has anything to do with me, or how you find me scummy for both not moving my vote, and for moving it. Then you say you had a similar reaction to CDB's, but for different reasoning, but I don't think CDB ever gave his actual reasoning, so how do you know yours was different? Tell me, what was CDB's reason for voting me? (@CDB: Please let Zar answer this.)

[Lia]

Do you think that I am more likely to do that as scum than town? Why?

I don't know whether you would or not. But if I thought it was the former I would have voted you.

If you have no inclination as to whether or not it is alignment-indicative, why did you bring it up?

Because it bothered me; and if the Dritan slot flips scum it might be worth following up on later.

The fact that Lia hasn't really answered any questions doesn't make me want to pull my vote but I'm not sure if that's a justified opinion at this point.

What questions haven't I answered?

[Lia]

@ Not mafia:

Have you played with Kid A before?

You got your 'hunch', so to speak, then Egg comments on your vote and you move it off the wagon immediately after. You may say it would have come off of the wagon at that point regardless, but I suspect the move had to do with Egg commenting on your vote than a sincere desire to move it.

After post 32 I switched off for the night, which is why I didn't respond to CDB's 33. The following posts, including Egg's 44, came in the middle of the night so there's no way I could have moved that vote before he posted. In the morning I looked at the overnight posts. explained why I stayed on Protector, and then moved on to the next thing. At that point there was no reason to stay on Protector so I don't understand why you think I would have done?

CDB quoted two points out of your 49 that aren't related to the reasoning behind my vote. This is why led me to assume his reasoning is different to mine.

I'd assumed his vote was more of an exploratory, pressure type thing, which could well have been based on the same things as your vote.

TL;DR: Voting Not_Mafia makes sense, although once again there's people already voting him who don't seem to have as good a reason to as they should.

Town vote because they think someone is scum, not because it "makes sense".

The fact that Lia hasn't really answered any questions doesn't make me want to pull my vote but I'm not sure if that's a justified opinion at this point.

What questions haven't I answered?

Why no answer to this?

Vote: Quill

It was a toss up between Quill and Earthquake but Quill needs to respond to the above.


Re: the Amished tell, I admit that was the first thing that jumped to my mind when I saw AP's post, but a quick search showed he was aware of it so that makes it null in his case.

[Lia]

I haven't played witb anybody here before, if enough people vouch that kind of behaviour is within KidA's town meta I'll move my vote but in any case his play isn't helpful

I've seen enough of his play to think that it's worth letting him alone for a bit.

I didn't see it, honestly. Now that I'm looking back, you got to them all eventually, so consider this a nonissue.

Nope, it's not a non-issue when you throw mud then try to sidle away when called on it. And your use of the word "eventually" shows that you're still hoping some of it will stick. So, are you going to explain why you said what you did at the end of 132?

[Lia]

Prod dodge. I couldn't get on yesterday. Should be able to post later today.

[Lia]

Why do I get the feeling you're trying to have an easy out off of the wagon with this vote? You seem not convinced quill is scum, yet you are voting him and preparing to unvote him when the opportunity arises (aka when the questions are answered).

Nope. I'm voting him because I want to lynch him. You can paint it any way you want to but the simple fact is that he and you are my top scum reads. But I'm not seeing you and him as scum together which is part of the reason why I haven't put together my thoughts on you yet. The other reason was lack of time.

Zar could be scum with either of Quill or Earthquake. 335 and 346 makes me think it's Quill.

I think I'm going to have to reread the last few pages a couple of times to make sense out of them. First impressions make think Mastin may be scum but I'm far from sure of it.

[Lia]

You're the one that's sniping, not me. You don't apparently have any points to raise with me but you feel the need to make little digs anyway. Why?

[Lia]

And meanwhile, Lia is content with sniping from the sidelines and stuff. #justsayin'

You're the one that's sniping, not me. You don't apparently have any points to raise with me but you feel the need to make little digs anyway. Why?

I don't apparently have any points to raise with you? Whether you like it or not and keep dismissing it, I've already given out reasoning to why I think you're scum + you haven't done anything to convince me to reassess my read on you at all.

I wasn't referring to your previous posts, just to 445. You didn't ask anything further of me, but just tossed out a throwaway line. Hence my conclusion that you weren't genuinely interested in what I thought, or have any new points to make, but were just trying to stir the pot. The only reason I can think of for it is the fact that I included you in my list of suspects, which should not have been a surprise to you as I was voting you until I switched to Quill. Is that it? Or did you have another reason for making that comment?

[Lia]

That was in reference to your 436 which I thought was suspicious but seems to have gone unnoticed. It's safe, feels calculated, and is distant, all-in one.

safe because your "new" opinions in it are fairly pedestrian and don't earn you any new enemies.
distant because you're not actively trying to engage anyone in it.
calculated because your comments have enough wiggle room into them to back out of all.

1) There weren't any "new" opinions in it, apart from maybe the comment about Mastin but that was a first impression rather than an opinion, so your first point isn't valid.
2) It was a reply to Earthquake plus a reiteration of where I currently stand so no, I wasn't trying to engage anyone else with that particular post. Why is that a problem for you?
3) I'm not 100% certain of who is scum so it's not surprising if that is reflected in my posts. But I do know who I'm willing to lynch and I think I have been clear about that. Are you actually accusing me of not tunnelling here!?

[Lia]

I'm still looking at Zar and Earthquake. Possibly CDB/Desperado, but I don't see the flake as a scumtell. I know it's wifomy but for some reason Mastin's death makes me feel better about AP. Antihero's late jump on to EQ looks town. Still ok with Egg, Not_mafia and Kid A. Need to take another look at Chamber and Fish.

Vote: Earthquake

@ AP: Why not fish until tomorrow?

[Lia]

Vote: Chamber

Back to L-1

[Lia]

Lia seems town although her reaction to the chamber wagon makes me a little nervous.

Why is that? I joined the wagon at that point because Earthquake had unvoted and his unvote post looked as if he was hoping the wagon would go away. I wasn't keen on his vote post where he incorrectly claimed it was L-1 either.

After all the claims I'm thinking Formerfish is the third scum, but that's just poe for now.

[Lia]

@ Antihero and Not_mafia:

Why Desperado rather than Earthquake?

[Lia]

Vote: Formerfish

Beginning to think Not_mafia may be the last one.

[Lia]

Looks like it. Everyone else but Not_mafia is confirmed and NM is more likely to be town.

Vote: Desp

[Lia]

Actually I suppose we should wait for AP who will have the answer unless he didn't hide last night. I'm guessing the EQ kill was an attempt to get him as well.

[Lia]

Thanks for the game Shos! Good game everyone!