Open 570: Making Friends and Enemies (Mafia Wins!)
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Peabody Mafia Scum
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Coming into the game, something about these questions caused me to question BBT. I asked myself 'is this line of questioning real or is he going to do something with this info?'
Oh, he found scum.
I just -don't believe- his conviction here.
Everything about this case on MS does not seem right from BBT: To have such an aggressive stance from the beginning and based on negligible reasons.
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That being said, Shinobi gives me town vibes from 75 and in his subsequent posting. As in, I wanted someone to counter BBT's 'certain' case, and here comes Shinobi. My reservation on Shinobi goes as far as when he says:
regarding GM's question and not placing a vote on Zeb.Shinobi [url=http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=6213772#p6213772]39[/url] wrote:That's some pretty blatant rolefishing.
Josh_B gives me slight town vibes from 137. I admit it could be due to posting style.
GM- I don't know how to read her until she reads the thread.
Malakittens- I played a game with her recently where she relied heavily on meta, but ended up as scum. I don't know how a town-Mala plays yet.
MS- Meh, I don't know on this one. As GM said, MS's entrance post did appear manipulative, and his mirror posting made him difficult to read. I like MS's presentation on GM's case, however, I feel that this push is convienent for either scum or town to try, considering it is based on lack of effort GM puts in the game. I have a null/slight town at best on MS.
EspressoDan's 106 is fluff posting. I don't like it.
MS, why are you town reading BBT?
BBT, why are you talking to GM like she's town in 219 when obviously you had some reservations about her after reading 183?
My vote is going right now where my reading is going.
VOTE: BlueBloodedToffee-
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Peabody Mafia Scum
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I don't quite have a 75% read on you, GM.
A large portion of your posts are the back and forth with MS about you not reading, how he's scum reading you for lack of effort, and how you express you are busy and haven't caught up (which is fine. Just can't read you yet).
I don't see lack of catching up as alignment indicative, and I wish to withhold judgement on your alignment until I have something I can call a town tell or scum tell. I read alignment as the game goes.-
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I'm willing to switch votes to Zebulon.
This is what I got from his iso read:
What I think Zeb is saying wrote:I have no strong reads except a town!Shinobi and a scum!MS
Not to mention he doesn't explain WHY he has a scum read on MS. He just finds something he said 'interesting' with '(no conclusion)'.
Scum have to fabricate reads. Especially scum reads.-
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Peabody Mafia Scum
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In post 276, Zebulin wrote:In post 240, goodmorning wrote:@Shinobi: Maybe you could explain that sentence.
@Zeb: Why ISOs?
P-Edit: And why cop out on Josh and Peabody? They've posted more than the lurkers have.
Zeb wrote:JoshB:Well, he's scumreading me. I don't like his logic on me, which I am answering later in this post, but that doesn't mean he's scum. 21 posts is a good amount considering he replaced in.
Peabody:Doesn't like me either. I strongly disagree with post 259, considering that Iactually did explain me read. Does have a lot of content per post, but the logic is totally off.
Look, Zeb. Maybe I'm not understanding WHY you are reading them why you're reading them. You coded MS as -red-. But your paragraph on him is just explaining what he did. What in that paragraph EQUALS scum alignment, and what is just summary? Can you please, for the sake of me understanding you, do this?
Additionally, you have me labeled as scum, but you give no clear indication as to why. Is it because I called you scummy? Or why?-
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In post 286, Josh_B wrote:Zebulin, How do you feel about being on the same wagon as Peabody? Does that change your reads at all?
What do you mean by this?
I'm voting BBT at the moment.-
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"votehopping" - Not alignment indicative. Not scummy unless it's opportunistic voting.
"demanding sheep" - Not alignment indicative.
"on-off pressuring" - What do you mean by this?
"and the VT/Mason gambit" - As I said, I can see this from either alignment, although this is the most suspicious thing he's done.
I can't read your mind. In my mind, I read a bunch of things that were just summaries and not alignment indicative. How would I have known these are the things you think indicate scum unless you said it?
Using the word "interesting" doesn't mean one alignment or another.
Welcome to my mind. xD-
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In post 307, Metal Sonic wrote:Mr Peabody, can you get a more high res avatar pretty please?
But...
I had this for years...
But...
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Peabody Mafia Scum
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Scripten 325 wrote:Peabody - Seems to be voting BBT over playstyle issues.
My vote on BBT is based on convictions on an MS scum that seem fake, and his vote on MS was based on non-alignment indicative qualities. Which lead me to believe a 'sheep me-BBT' is not entirely truthful in his convictions.
If you didn't understand my case, fine.
But, it's not really about playstyle of BBT. It's about what I perceive as untruthfulness.-
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Zeb wrote:On an unrelated note, since my reads keep on changing (Josh is ovbiously scum! No, he's ovbviously town! SCUM TOWN SCUM TOWN SCUM TOWN SOUM TCWM) I was thinking of putting a reads list in my signature and changing it as te game progresses.
Yeah. I like this from Zeb.
Scripten 375 wrote:NPAU: Come on back to the party. We miss you and you should come contribute more.
I kinda like this from Scripten.
Josh B 370 wrote:On another note. I like zebulin's recent explanation. Can we vote Peabody now?
VOTE: peabody
Such is the bane of being an unreadable player. Although, I swear, this game I thought I've given enough opinion to be readable by now.
Scripten wrote:I wouldn't mind a Peabody lynch. He's a little scummy, but right now I'd like to see a good NPAU wagon.
H'okay.
In post 384, Josh_B wrote:In post 358, Peabody wrote:Which lead me to believe a 'sheep me-BBT' is not entirely truthful in his convictions.
He never is. Lucky for you that you are finding this out now as opposed to later. I think I speak for all of us that know BBT, your case is weak. Is there anything else that you want to add?
This interests me.
Is this typical of BBT to fake convictions? To you who know him, my case may be weak if this is something typical of him. If on just a general player, I think faking a conviction is a scum-tell. I'm at the point where I don't know whether to continue pushing this or to focus attention elsewhere. He's been seeming more towny lately. I know an aggressive stance early game is something I've done as scum at least once. So from personal experience, I'm inclined to believe his early play is scum generated. His later play is much better.
I have a -slight- town ping on Mala.-
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Is that typical of him to be over-the-top convicted of a read? Because I don't get the vibe that he believes in his own reads.
That's why he pings me as scum.
Scripten, my 'H'okay' comment is in reference to how you vocalized support behind a wagon of someone without having any stated reason. The fact that you'd be 'good' with it doesn't ping well with me if you have stated no prior suspicion on my slot.
You saying there is something scummy about my play is more interesting to me than Josh_B's vote on me who said no such thing if I remember correctly. Can you expound on your statement? Help me out.-
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Looking at NPAU's 439. This post is in response to NPAU's asking for a definition of soft-defense of scum partners.
Why do you relate soft-defending to your meta or lack thereof?NPAU wrote:How can I respond to this if you don't provide explanations lol. I've seen and done both of the above as scum before. Btw, this is the first game I've played since a year ago so meta might not really apply. Check if you like.
Josh_B wrote:NPAU do you think people are making pot shots at you because you have 8 posts and 5 of them contain vote changes?
That's if you count your "confirm" post. Nearly all of your posts have had a vote change.
Goodmorning
BBT
Huntress
Goodmorning again
and Now
Mala
On top of that, they are nearly all without player engagement.
I'm still not sure what the Huntress vote was for. Can you explain?
Do you find these vote changes scummy? Or something else?
Mala's line in 456 bugs me. The line about Hephaestus in particular feels... filler.
Malakittens wrote:Anything is better then being silent. In fact silence makes you look guiltier
Hmm. This fits somewhere. Although I don't quite agree with this statement in general, this might be her guiding principle for the previous filler line. Unless you feel it wasn't posted for the sake of filler, Mala?
I like huntress 499.
Daveaz wrote:No, I'm not trying to get a mason reaction. TBH the sites where I've played before almost never used that role and therefore I'm not used to thinking about it.
Quotes like these help scum. :/-
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In post 512, hephaestus wrote:In post 506, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:VOTE: NPAU
OR I guess this works for me
VOTE: NPAU
Why?
And why on MS?-
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Sorry, NPAU, the quotes are difficult to follow, so it was not my intention to misquote you. But I must ask you to clarify. Is the thing you've done in your meta before soft-defending? Or was it something else? I am unclear. Also, how does it help any defense against Scripten wanting to meta read you?
I unvoted BBT because I'm not as convinced as I was he was scum, based on Scripten and Josh_B's responses that his fake convictions are typical in any alignment.-
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VOTE: Hestephus
Your vote on NPAU looks opportunistic. Especially since only half of those voting him have any reasoning (Scripten, MS) although both cases are vague.And especially since the only person you prodded as possible scum was MS.
Heph 511 wrote:Ok so the problem with this game is that it hasn't built momentum due to all the replacements. At this point I'd expect at least one solid wagon but instead there's a ton on vanity wagons that aren't going anywhere and I don't even know where to begin looking for scum.
Are you only looking for wagons?
This looks opportunistic as MS's 'NPAU is easier to lynch' line. Which you called out.
Long story short: NPAU -might- be scum. But the wagon on him is incredibly scummy. Hephaestus's vote looks most suspect of the four.-
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I wrote:Are you only looking for wagons?
Okay, the way I phrased this isn't fair. But are wagons often the focal point of your scum hunt?
I don't like that you haven't had strong opinions about anyone. I thought you did about MS, but that wasn't backed up by a vote. Your vote immediately changed to NPAU who others were voting at the time.-
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In post 547, hephaestus wrote:In post 536, Peabody wrote:Why don't you hate the wagon?
Because I have no reason to believe he's town.
Daveaz wrote:So I've been reviewing the people who aren't involved in the GM wagon in some way (either on it, or questioning those who are on it). You're in this category.
Has anything happened since the quoted post to change your reads?
I'm mainly posting my thoughts as I go, but right now Heph is on my radar. In regards to the NPAU wagon, I didn't like it. As for GM, I did affirm to her that the scum reads on her based on her not taking time to read the thread are null and that she simply hadn't read the thread yet.
Well, it's been a while since this game started, and I don't remember GM being particularly proactive apart from being defensive. I'd like to see more from her, and this might be unfair, but it feels to me when I consider GM in this game, that she's in a constant state of not being current in the thread.
Which makes it SUPER hard for me to put a town label on her. And I like Mala's meta read on GM because she provided reasoning that I am thinking might have truth to it (GM avoiding the thread as scum?).
However, the fast wagon helps in knocking her toward a towner side of null than a scummier.
Heph, what do you feel about the fastbuilding and derailing of the GM wagon?
In post 538, Metal Sonic wrote:
he is happy to vote me or npau
if both of us are town, he is happy to vote town
and that is only what scum will do
This post is from town.
While I like Heph's 548 like uctriton00 does, I don't like his response to 547. Switching your vote from someone you find as scummy (MS) to someone you have 'no reason to believe he's town' (NPAU) does not seem logical to me.
BBT 577 wrote:I happen to agree.
She said she was working on a reads-list a while back, I've been waiting for it.
I didn't know she was posting elsewhere though.
VOTE: GM
Why is your vote on GM exactly? I got the feeling this was a sheep as well (same as dave feels), but feel free to prove me wrong.
Malakittens wrote:GM
if you are town, indeed town, then do something other than defend yourself from Ms
I would think that someone who is unsure of her reads as you have stated you are, Mala, would want to cling onto a read you find more solid, ie GM. She seems to be fitting her scum meta according to you, so my question is this: Why are you coaching her here?-
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Mala wrote:Peabody's posts feel a hell of a lot different than our last completed game. I remember making a comment about how there was a lack of a vote by Peabody in that game, but the difference between that game and this game is that he has moved his vote around more than he did there.
I just want to make a quick comment on this. You replaced in on day 2 or 3 on the one game we played together. I certainly am slow to vote, however, in the game you are basing your meta upon, keep these things in mind:
1) The players commented on the coloring of the mod's PMs when the mod hadn't yet posted sample pms in the OP. This made me nail at least two town members in an instant as town.
2) My posting may have felt like tunneling to you since you were scum (and thus more likely to give my posts against you more weight).
3) I had town read most of the player list. My votes, therefore, were statistically most likely to be scum. I felt really, really comfortable about my scum read on you based on PoE.
You have one sample of me. If you want to see more of my play, you may search on the wiki for my screenname. I list every game that I have record of being in. Additionally, I post comments on the ones that I felt like posting comments.
You may see how I think by reading these notes on each game. That will help you read my meta.
I do feel that the game you are meta'ing me off of was a game that was of different substance. So many things felt certain to me because of the PM references throughout the game.-
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GM wrote:For a start, her first post reflects a lot of the same thoughts I'd been having up to that point, though I was pretty vocal about them.
This statement from GM looks town.
BBT 577 wrote:I happen to agree.
She said she was working on a reads-list a while back, I've been waiting for it.
I didn't know she was posting elsewhere though.
VOTE: GM
Why is your vote on GM exactly? I got the feeling this was a sheep as well (same as dave feels), but feel free to prove me wrong.
BBT, do you mind responding to this? I want to know your thought process on this subject.-
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I 675 wrote:BBT 577 wrote:I happen to agree.
She said she was working on a reads-list a while back, I've been waiting for it.
I didn't know she was posting elsewhere though.
VOTE: GM
Why is your vote on GM exactly? I got the feeling this was a sheep as well (same as dave feels), but feel free to prove me wrong.
xD
This is what I wanted to answer. Part of my last post shows my wording that's supposed to bein quotes. This above is what is supposed to be in quotes.
Meaning, can you say something on what is in quotes here, BBT?-
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BBT wrote:This is pretty much all I got in terms of GM.
Sonic presented a case, and I agreed with his suspicions but I disagreed with his conclusion (he thought she was scum, I didn't). However, the main reason I disagreed is because I fully expected GM to improve her play, start contributing, and start scum-hunting. This didn't happen, and still hasn't happened.
I guess you could say it's a read that just accumulated over time because GM just hasn't done anything in this game.
Was Mala's vote on GM a tipping point for you?-
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In post 743, Shinobi wrote:In post 741, davesaz wrote:In post 730, uctriton00 wrote:Your 729 answers it. I think if we are right on NPAU being scum it sets up some people to be town.
GM for same reasons why I've said I don't think they're on the same team.
Scripten for that well thought out case on NPAU (I would doubt its worth it to bus on Day 1 with 13 players, and I doubt a bus would have that much effort Scripten put. In my personal cases of bussing, usually it's some half assed sentence or idea, not a thought out case like that)
If NPAU showed up as town, would that change things? That was what I was really asking.
This is basically why we kill uct, for the record.
Please elaborate.-
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In post 743, Shinobi wrote:In post 741, davesaz wrote:In post 730, uctriton00 wrote:Your 729 answers it. I think if we are right on NPAU being scum it sets up some people to be town.
GM for same reasons why I've said I don't think they're on the same team.
Scripten for that well thought out case on NPAU (I would doubt its worth it to bus on Day 1 with 13 players, and I doubt a bus would have that much effort Scripten put. In my personal cases of bussing, usually it's some half assed sentence or idea, not a thought out case like that)
If NPAU showed up as town, would that change things? That was what I was really asking.
This is basically why we kill uct, for the record.
BBT,
Did Mala have anything at all to do with your GM vote? I'm hella confused on this.
The timing was strange to me and I'm trying to unpack why.-
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In post 754, uctriton00 wrote:In post 751, Shinobi wrote:I've discovered that uct is scum and you should vote him with me.
hi there reaction test
This pings me.-
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Mala 576 wrote:Yep and you'll hate that answer too.
I used to be spot on while reading GM in past games. This happened because we were scum buddies and I faced her when she was a SK. There's a tone difference between her scum and her town game. Although lately she's been using similarities in the tones when I did a quick remembrance of a scum game and a recent completed town game, however, the lack of being overly defensive was missing in her town game.
Also she tends to stall a lot while being scum, which she's doing here. She's saying technical difficulties, but is able to post elsewhere.
BBT 577 wrote:I happen to agree.
She said she was working on a reads-list a while back, I've been waiting for it.
I didn't know she was posting elsewhere though.
VOTE: GM-
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This is just a first impression:
Uct pings me as town from this 1v1.
Shinobi, not so much.
I'm on my phone, so I can examine why I believe this when I'm on my laptop again. Eh, nothing here is set in stone unless I can analyze my thoughts on both of them via isos.
I haven't commented on uct to date. So this will be my next thing to do.
Oh, and again, all this is from a cursory glance. Don't put much weight in this post. Just telling you where my mind is right now.-
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daveaz wrote:NPAU and hephaestus both voting GM is interesting because IIRC several people have floated hephaestus as their 2nd-3rd scummiest player. Perhaps both are scum and neither wants to move for fear of looking even more scummy?
The fact the wagon on heph is small despite him being read as a scummy player may say something.
In the direction of a Heph scum and reluctance of partners to bus him.-
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I'm not moving my vote until closer to deadline.
I will, however, use my vote to make a lynch happen. I'm doubtful we're getting a red flip today unless we can get Heph.
The worst thing that can happen right now is a no lynch. We've had three weeks of discussion, and if that ends in no vote, we get another two weeks for discussion on the same topics, plus one town dead.
As I said, i will place my vote on the biggest wagon in two to three hours time (still plenty of time before deadline).-
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If I absolutely had to pick between NPAU and GM... I don't know.
GM's quick wagon and derail makes it seem she's town. But her lack of effort earlier in the game and emotional defense appears somewhat scummy.
NPAU... I just don't see the NPAU case. Vote hopping isn't scummy to me at all.
I don't want to lynch either, personally.-
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In post 1019, goodmorning wrote:In post 1018, Josh_B wrote:I should probably read through the thread to find out who the masons are.
Can I just say how much I don't like this?
I don't like this. A lot.
No, no. It's more likely town would be this open about 'finding the masons' than scum.-
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