Open 577: Hope Plus One! (GAME OVER - SCUM WIN)

[Cane + Able]

@Wake
What's your take on the three wagons, GIF, Rudi and Tex, do you agree with Houses reads?

Didn't remember GIF was here. Only remember a bit about Rudy, the guy who says he's played in some of my Town/Scum games. I don't remember much of what he's done this game (because I've been out of it). Not sure about Texcat wagon. From what I remember she doesn't post much in her meta. She may, if Town, be an easy mislynch target. Haven't read much of her posts either.

House and I haven't spoken much in our titanpad. I don't even know what his reads are, and since I've been unable to play much I've deferred control of our vote to him.

[Cane + Able]

1 day and a bit to deadline.

Of the existing wagons I prefer Rudy right now and would also vote texcat. I don't like the GIF wagon. I will move close to the deadline to the leading candidate to assure a lynch.

I imagine so.

[Cane + Able]

I still think it's you, GGG.

VOTE: GGG

[Cane + Able]

I'm going to renew my vote.
VOTE: GIF

My scum list is currently GIF, GGG, and Dino (more on that later).


I realize that NK analysis is mostly futile(I have literally thrown the dice as scum), but I still can't help but do it.

I think leaving Acryon alive is mostly null, but I never found him very scummish. Clearly the death of our cop makes Acryon less valuable, though. And I've looked through Bookitty for any cop crumbs, but didn't see any. I'm guessing scum decided to kill Bookitty for their own reasons and it was just an added bonus that she was the cop.

I think clearly I am the one with the best reasons for killing Bookitty.

I was her first scum read. But since I know that I am town, I'm left wondering if scum was trying to implicate me with this kill. It seems unlikely to me. I had enough pressure D1 that it would seem unnecessary.

Vote Count 1.15
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch

Rudolph the Reindeer (4)

- acryon, Idiotking, Cain + Able, TellTaleHeart

texcat (4)

- bookitty, GGG, Rudolph the Reindeer, Mathdino

GuyInFreezer (4)

- copper223, texcat, My Milked Eek, Aneninen

(expired on 2014-12-09 14:00:00) until deadline

Edited as of post 1235 to fix a mistake

Looking at the vote on texcat is interesting.

Following my logic of one scum per wagon this means Math Dino or I are scum.

The alternate that TTH was saying you could have no scum on a wagon especially if texcat were scum which may be possible. So the choice for me today (knowing that I am town) is between Math Dino and Texcat. The math Dino and texcat is also a possibility. I hate doing the either or is scum because it's easy for scum to set that up to lynch two townies. But in this case I don't see that is possible for 4 townies to vote for another townie without scum being involved.

Awkward moment when both my top scumreads are implicating themselves in their own analysis.

I'd be voting 3G but I should go play a game and make sure shitty math isn't just pissing me off. Will see if this is actually scummy later.

I don't see texcat!scum making that bolded statement.

[Cane + Able]

GGG made the bolded statement.

Read the

entire

post.

[Cane + Able]

GGG made the bolded statement.

Read the

entire

post.

So why did you bold two statements.

You really don't pay attention, do you?

I didn't bold either of them.

[Cane + Able]

I'm going to renew my vote.
VOTE: GIF

My scum list is currently GIF, GGG, and Dino (more on that later).


I realize that NK analysis is mostly futile(I have literally thrown the dice as scum), but I still can't help but do it.

I think leaving Acryon alive is mostly null, but I never found him very scummish. Clearly the death of our cop makes Acryon less valuable, though. And I've looked through Bookitty for any cop crumbs, but didn't see any. I'm guessing scum decided to kill Bookitty for their own reasons and it was just an added bonus that she was the cop.

I think clearly I am the one with the best reasons for killing Bookitty. I was her first scum read. But since I know that I am town, I'm left wondering if scum was trying to implicate me with this kill. It seems unlikely to me. I had enough pressure D1 that it would seem unnecessary.

If you scum read obsolete wi-fi, join me on the 3G wagon.

[Cane + Able]

(It's just a play on your name, no offense meant GGG)

[Cane + Able]

IRT GGG or texcat?

[Cane + Able]

WIFOMing scum being productive or not is irrelevant.

What matters is whether Anen

thought

it was relevant, or if he's trying to cover his tracks.

I think his argument is genuine.

[Cane + Able]

That was more in response to MD than you, copper.

Continuing the argument with Anen is counterproductive.

[Cane + Able]

@C+A
How confident are you of your town read on Texcat?

I'm solid on it. Even more now that she has picked up her participation.

She's reminding me of NY 177.

[Cane + Able]

These 3 tabs are staring at me.

Judging me.

UNVOTE: 3G
until I finish and get rid of those 3. Don't really like IK putting him at L-1 for only that post, which isn't really the scummiest of today. Want to see that reads list.

Is that a Lost tab I spy with my little eye?

I guess you can't be

all

bad.

The guy that played Jacob is in another series I'm watching called The Tomorrow People. Cheesy title, but decent storyline.

[Cane + Able]

Looking at my wagon

C/A kicks it off with no reason

I take offense at that. I certainly had reason!

[Cane + Able]

@Acryon
What exactly am I hiding?

That's what I am trying to figure out.

I said the optimal kill if you are doc is to kill you, so if you are a doc then yes, scum made a mistake. You trying to sell it as scum being smart by leaving you alive is either faulty understanding of the setup if you are town, or what you have to say as scum. Regardless of the alignment it's a self serving statement which again either comes from confbias if you are town (and looking for a reason to justify being alive) or for obvious reasons if you are scum.

What I am looking for is for you to say whether you think it is more likely that scum made a mistake, or that I am scum. If you think it's the former, do you think it is reasonable to say that it is more likely that our scum aren't very experienced (considering your rock-solid belief that killing me was the optimal scum play)? To me, this is a type of question

you

should be asking. Your argument just seems to be arguing, but not really saying anything or really scum-hunting.

What is your opinion on the NK?

People new day she is a strong player, but if she is a strong player, why wasn't she protected?

I can see protecting TTH over Boo, but we have two docs.

Do you think the kill came from inexperienced scum?

[Cane + Able]

New day = now say

[Cane + Able]

Also, I think optimal doc play to avoid cross heals is for the hidden doc to protect acryon's target from the night before, as long as both are alive.

JMO.

[Cane + Able]

Maybe should have waited to post this until after I gave my reads list. You have now given me a particular incentive to give you a reads list that conflicts with this argument. If you're wanting to see if someone reacts a particular way you shouldn't point out that this is specifically what you're looking for.

I'm pretty sure that if you wanted to tell me what I wanted to hear, we're far enough along in the game to where you're acclimated to my play style.

Now it seems I have a "reaction test" claim to gauge. :S

Can you possibly waffle more than that?

[Cane + Able]

I'm going to attempt some VCA in a bit. I was looking at elk's ISO and I noticed something interesting.

Rudolph the Reindeer (7) - acryon,

Idiotking

,

Cain + Able

, GGG,

texcat

, TellTaleHeart,

copper223

GGG (5) -

copper223

,

Cain + Able

, Aneninen,

Idiotking

,

texcat

The blue names were on both wagons. This is a pretty remarkable overlap.

Do you not realize the futility of comparing those two wagons without GGG's flip?

Are you just assuming he will flip town? Because that is a lofty assumption considering his play.

[Cane + Able]

Are you just assuming he will flip town? Because that is a lofty assumption considering his play.

If you think GGG will flip scum, you're forced to accept the premise that the Rudolph wagon was town driven or that the scum team randomly decided to throw GGG under the bus. What were you saying about lofty assumptions?

acryon was driving the Rudolph bus, was he not? Are you suggesting he is scum?

[Cane + Able]

Also, are you suggesting a four person scum team?

[Cane + Able]

And if you are, do you really think all four scum would be on both wagons like that?

[Cane + Able]

Question for you House: What is your current read of acryon?

It's on hold.

Not really null, just waiting to see what happens with him.

Not a lynch option at this point, if that clarifies it.

[Cane + Able]

I don't know what the butter zone is (thanks for making me hungry though, copper, I haven't eaten since 9 this morning ).

What I'm talking about is that it looks like there's this hive mind of copper, Idiotking, texcat, and Cain and Able.

Why is that?

It's not like they're all townreading each other (in fact, copper and Idiotking are scumreading each other) and their interactions don't suggest any special synergy, but they were all still voting as a block. And it's weird that this unity emerges from the fragmented wagons of yesterday. texcat wall calling GGG scum for a while now, but there's not much indication from any of the other three that they would go towards GGG. It has to make you wonder. What's going on with this mass vote pattern?

Right, like me voting GGG yesterday (game day) showed no indication that I was suspecting him of actually being scum, right?

Seeing what you want to see.

[Cane + Able]

That's what I'm talking about... that VCA makes a lot more sense than TTH's "scum dogpile on town lynches" theory.

[Cane + Able]

The amount of suspicion for IK's lies is not matching the number of votes on him. Meanwhile the strength of the texcat case in comparison isnt matching the difference in votes.

Calling shenanigans. Vote stands.

Well now I'm confused. Do you think GGG is scum or not?

TTH, perhaps you should pay more attention to who was off the leading wagon, rather than who was on it.

This is completely tangential to the point I was noting.

That's what I'm talking about... that VCA makes a lot more sense than TTH's "scum dogpile on town lynches" theory.

That's not my theory, and all texcat did was copy/paste two vote counts and put her scumreads in blue.

Funny, that is exactly what your theory sounded like to me.

And there is no need for you to discredit an opposing view.

[Cane + Able]

Mostly copper and Cain+Able but possibly Idiotking.

Even if he is scum, copper is a

really

hard player to pick apart because there's a logical consistency there and there's a lot of confidence to back it up. He also has a lot of charisma and it's easy to get swept up into townreading him for it. (MathDino, you're asking what happened in our last game? He was scum and nearly everyone townread him.) That's kind of why I'm making such a big deal over what probably looks innocuous to everyone else. The interpretation of details becomes really important and minor things start to matter a lot. Like the changing read on the Bookitty slot and the

exact

reasons for the orcinus vote.

Cain+Able is a widely held townread, but I'm not really sure what the reason for that is. Yesterday, I talked myself into townreading him because I thought it fit well with the Rudolph scumread but now that Rudolph flipped town, I need to go back and question it. Here's one thing that really bothers me: House talked a bit yesterday about how acryon should die tonight given his role. Today, House doesn't seem to have given the acryon read that much attention and that's why I asked about it.

Idiotking was also a widely held townread, but I do remember having bad feelings about Constantine on my read through and then I kind of shelved them to chase after other things. Now I'm wondering if I should have.

If there's a theme to all this it's: people I feel like I dropped the ball on yesterday to go after a Thor lynch which ended up being bad anyway.

That's okay, everybody always scum reads me until they get to know me.

Unless I'm scum, strangely enough.

[Cane + Able]

Ahhh. I wasn't even thinking about how many scum there are.

My read on C&A? I'm still leaning town, but it is a little worrisome that his activity level seems to have dropped.

I work 14 hour days.

[Cane + Able]

My Milked Eek - null
GGG -scum
GuyInFreezer - null/scum slot
TellTaleHeart - null/town (recent doubts)
copper223 - town
Cane + Able -town
acryon - mebbe town? Based on truthful claim
Aneninen - town
Mathdino - null/scum
texcat - obvtown

[Cane + Able]

I want to quickly jot down my thoughts during lunch brake after checking her other game where her hydra with anti was a serial killer.

I am actually not so sure about my town read, if we end up going with Tex, C+A or myself and we flip town and she keeps going after the same people be careful, admittedly I am not so sure on C+A or Tex anymore as well.

- TTH replaced NRG who did not look town from his early posting.
- TTH had a reason to kill Boo because Boo was turning on her for overpressing on me at the end of D1.
- I did not think of it this way before but going after the 4 man voting block could be setting up mislynches, adding IK masked the whole thing for me but other than saying he might be scum she is not really pushing him and there is ample reason to do so as he has been a lurksack after what amounts to getting caught in my mind.
- TTH like most of you is guilty of selective scumhunting this game and ignoring the lurker slots.
- TTH also delayed replying to posts here as in her other SK game, I do not think she did tha in our other game where she was town.

This is all offset by her Rudi case and her intro posts, because those look like genuine town TTH to me.

TTH replaced CultivationTheory, MME replaced NRG.

[Cane + Able]

- TTH like most of you is guilty of selective scumhunting this game and ignoring the lurker slots.

What even the fuck just happened here?

[Cane + Able]

TTH, due to copper's post.
You, you should Damn sure know. Just because it happened yesterday doesn't mean I forgot. I'm just waiting for you to slip up.
texcat, familiar with playstyle, reminds me of her other town games, and if you are town, that is good enough.

[Cane + Able]

My Milked Eek - null
GGG -scum
GuyInFreezer - null/scum slot
TellTaleHeart -

null/

town

(recent doubts)

copper223 - town
Cane + Able -town
acryon - mebbe town? Based on truthful claim
Aneninen - town
Mathdino - null/scum
texcat - obvtown

EBWOP

[Cane + Able]

TTH, due to copper's post.
You, you should Damn sure know. Just because it happened yesterday doesn't mean I forgot. I'm just waiting for you to slip up.
texcat, familiar with playstyle, reminds me of her other town games, and if you are town, that is good enough.

Hey.

Hey C+A.

I don't think you and TTH are scum together.

On texcat, see, the thing is, I'm also familiar with playstyle and she's reminding me of scum games. So this doesn't really help much.

Yeah, but you are scum and have reason to lie.

I know she is town and you need to back off.

[Cane + Able]

I'm just waiting for you to slip up.

On a sidenote, why would you say this directly to me when it's probably gonna make me LESS likely to slip up? Do I come across as the sort of player that would scumslip in the first place?

You've made very little effort to read me in the past 2 days.

I've had very little time to do much of anything in the past two weeks.

[Cane + Able]

I'm just waiting for you to slip up.

On a sidenote, why would you say this directly to me when it's probably gonna make me LESS likely to slip up? Do I come across as the sort of player that would scumslip in the first place?

Pretty sure that wasn't my first time saying it, and I didn't say I was waiting for you to scum slip.

Interesting.

[Cane + Able]

Meh isn't exactly a town read, brah.

It's an "I got nothin" read.

And I'm not pushing you, but it's nice to see a little paranoia coming from you. Tells me there might actually be something to find.

I was merely suspicious, but this exchange is strengthening my doubts.

[Cane + Able]

TTH, due to copper's post.
You, you should Damn sure know. Just because it happened yesterday doesn't mean I forgot. I'm just waiting for you to slip up.
texcat, familiar with playstyle, reminds me of her other town games, and if you are town, that is good enough.

I don't think you and TTH are scum together.

I would also say that copper and TTH are definitely not scum together.

Do you not find it odd at all that he would make that statement (which implies a scum read on me) after town reading me up until that point, simply because I read him as null/scum?

[Cane + Able]

TTH, due to copper's post.
You, you should Damn sure know. Just because it happened yesterday doesn't mean I forgot. I'm just waiting for you to slip up.
texcat, familiar with playstyle, reminds me of her other town games, and if you are town, that is good enough.

Hey.

Hey C+A.

I don't think you and TTH are scum together.

On texcat, see, the thing is, I'm also familiar with playstyle and she's reminding me of scum games. So this doesn't really help much.

Yeah, but you are scum and have reason to lie.

I know she is town and you need to back off.

This isn't exactly 'meh' or 'I got nothin' either. I question this because it's a turnaround from your previous behaviour surrounding me.
Which wasn't really that much in the first place.
By 'slip up', I interpret that ominous statement as 'scumslip', yes. Did you mean 'townslip' or was I correct in assuming that one would be waiting for scumreads to scumslip and townreads to townslip?

I don't place much faith in scumslips our townslips because I've seen town scumslip and townslips are easy to fake.

I'm looking for scum motivation. When I find it... and if you are scum, I will... I'll make my case.

[Cane + Able]

TTH, due to copper's post.
You, you should Damn sure know. Just because it happened yesterday doesn't mean I forgot. I'm just waiting for you to slip up.
texcat, familiar with playstyle, reminds me of her other town games, and if you are town, that is good enough.

I don't think you and TTH are scum together.

I would also say that copper and TTH are definitely not scum together.

Do you not find it odd at all that he would make that statement (which implies a scum read on me) after town reading me up until that point, simply because I read him as null/scum?

It implies nothing, lol, that was a joke mocking your (IMO) rather laughable idea that saying "these people aren't both scum" early on is scummy.
I mean, I believe it's true because TTH is a huge townread of mine.
Right now I'm slightly townreading you but noticing your behaviour surrounding me is making that wane slightly.

Oh noes, I fear your OMGUS!

[Cane + Able]

Funny thing is, I haven't town read you one, MD... So I don't see where this alleged surprise is coming from.

[Cane + Able]

Funny thing is, I haven't town read you once, MD... So I don't see where this alleged surprise is coming from.

EBWOP

[Cane + Able]

These 3 tabs are staring at me.

Judging me.

UNVOTE: 3G
until I finish and get rid of those 3. Don't really like IK putting him at L-1 for only that post, which isn't really the scummiest of today. Want to see that reads list.

Is that a Lost tab I spy with my little eye?

I guess you can't be

all

bad.

The guy that played Jacob is in another series I'm watching called The Tomorrow People. Cheesy title, but decent storyline.

Does the bolded sentence look like I am addressing someone I believe to be town?

[Cane + Able]

Funny thing is, I haven't town read you once, MD... So I don't see where this alleged surprise is coming from.

EBWOP

I wasn't expecting you to townread me, see, I was expecting you to push me if you thought I was scum or mention associatives between your scumreads. You've pushed me a grand total of two (2) times: the beginning of the game, and last page.

The problem, C+A, is you've never done a reads list before (this is why I asked for one), so I'd never really known where you stood on the players you weren't talking about. So the 'null scum' thing for something back in RVS came as a surprise since I'd all but forgotten about that.

The slips explanation makes sense actually.

I think this is an issue with communication more than anything. I'd appreciate if you updated your reads every now and then so we do know where you stand on the stuff you're not pushing.

A lot of this stuff is over my head, especially with TTH, so I'm trying to figure it out before I make an even bigger fool of myself than I already have.

[Cane + Able]

I do think this exchange pointw to a fundamental issue, which is that your scum-hunting isn't apparent. You've participated a lot in discussions this game, but looking over your ISO, I don't actually see much pushing of scum. If someone can show me that this is just playstyle from C+A, then maybe I will put less consideration into it, but you don't actually appear to be scum-hunting, and if you are, you aren't really letting us in on it.

I'm trying to figure out who is town and eliminating those I don't find consistent with town behavior as town reads.

That is hard to do when I can't really follow the conversation. Thus my uncertainty on TTH.

I'm solid on texcat town because of a game we played together.

You seem pretty town, but I am a little paranoid on why you are still alive considering you are a sitting duck as a macho doc.

Math, I still have doubts on due to D1, and today hasn't given me much opportunity to clarify that read because of the same problem I'm having reading TTH.

MME... is he in this game?

I got a town feel for copper yesterday, which again is where my ability to read those actually posting pretty much ended.

Part of my lack of posting is due to time constraints, the other part is due to frustration of not being able to follow the conversation.

[Cane + Able]

I do think this exchange pointw to a fundamental issue, which is that your scum-hunting isn't apparent. You've participated a lot in discussions this game, but looking over your ISO, I don't actually see much pushing of scum. If someone can show me that this is just playstyle from C+A, then maybe I will put less consideration into it, but you don't actually appear to be scum-hunting, and if you are, you aren't really letting us in on it.

If that was over your head, this is basically what I mean. If you were scumreading me, I'd have expected more of a push on me. I don't care to read between the lines or just assume that reads have been static over 1.5 days, if you've done almost nothing to push me, I assume you're not scumreading me to the point of "You're scum".

I don't take much stock in off topic posts regardless. I think I interpreted that as you talking about our playstyles not meshing, but it looks like I confused you with someone in another game.

I don't scum read you to the point of saying, "You're scum", or my read on you wouldn't be null/scum.

That line in regards to texcat where I called you scum was banter.

Omg, meta me. This is personality shit.

[Cane + Able]

He shouldn't have replaced in if he couldn't contribute.

Rude.

[Cane + Able]

Link to the game you were in with her where she was scum, please?

[Cane + Able]

Enjoy STD, C+A.

Even at a brief review, I find that she's very inconsistent in that game. I'm not seeing the similarities.

[Cane + Able]

I do think this exchange pointw to a fundamental issue, which is that your scum-hunting isn't apparent. You've participated a lot in discussions this game, but looking over your ISO, I don't actually see much pushing of scum. If someone can show me that this is just playstyle from C+A, then maybe I will put less consideration into it, but you don't actually appear to be scum-hunting, and if you are, you aren't really letting us in on it.

I'm trying to figure out who is town and eliminating those I don't find consistent with town behavior as town reads.

That is hard to do when I can't really follow the conversation. Thus my uncertainty on TTH.

I'm solid on texcat town because of a game we played together.

You seem pretty town, but I am a little paranoid on why you are still alive considering you are a sitting duck as a macho doc.

Math, I still have doubts on due to D1, and today hasn't given me much opportunity to clarify that read because of the same problem I'm having reading TTH.

MME... is he in this game?

I got a town feel for copper yesterday, which again is where my ability to read those actually posting pretty much ended.

Part of my lack of posting is due to time constraints, the other part is due to frustration of not being able to follow the conversation.

I can understand this to an extent, but you should also understand that it looks like you aren't scum-hunting.

I'm not a "twenty questions" player, either. Check my history.

That's not alignment indicative, it's playstyle indicative.

[Cane + Able]

I'm not a "twenty questions" player, either. Check my history.

That's not alignment indicative, it's playstyle indicative.

It's not about being a "twenty questions" player; it's about scum-hunting. Do you not think general questioning is a critical part of exposing scum? Not putting pressure on scum is at best not helpful to town.

There are plenty of questions being asked.

Add I can't even follow along, my questions would be at best irrelevant to the discussion add it was taking place.

Interrupting that would not be beneficial for town, as others were clearly getting something out of it.

[Cane + Able]

@copper: I'm finding it difficult to believe TTH hasn't just backed herself into a corner of paranoia. The ideas she's been pushing today make total sense from a town-her perspective. Unless you can find me an instance in which TTH-scum has gone full paranoia on everyone and repeatedly slashed everything she thought she 'knew', I see nothing scummy about any of this.

@Acryon
Delaying before replying can be a sign that you have to carefully prepare your statements and proof read them before posting because you are being careful about what you say, which may or may not be a scumtell, it may also just be a timing issue with TTH and RL near christmas, I was pointing out what I found similar in her SK game to this and different from her latest town game while it was still fresh.

Basically less developed reads (that's not the case here), being wrong most of the time (which for a good player like TTH I consider slightly scum indicative), still an open point for now, and delaying/active lurking are what stood out as different between town TTH in micro 415 and hydra SK TTH in the c9++ that just finished.

@Acryon and Dino

I think a player like TTH would have no problem feigning paranoia as mafia so that's null for me.

@C+A
Other than Tex and myself there is nobody who has showed interest in the MME and GIF slots, just the fact that these players/slots have recieved no pressure while being afk most of the game, especially the MME slot because at least some of the playerbase gave a town read on Orci/GIF is very strange from my pov, that's what I mean by most of you selectively scumhunting.

@copper: I'm finding it difficult to believe TTH hasn't just backed herself into a corner of paranoia. The ideas she's been pushing today make total sense from a town-her perspective.

Unless you can find me an instance in which TTH-scum has gone full paranoia on everyone and repeatedly slashed everything she thought she 'knew', I see nothing scummy about any of this.

In other arenas I question how being wrong is a scumtell for her. Like I can give you loads of examples of her being wrong as town. As I can with literally any player.
On selective scumhunting, how would you suggest we proceed? GIF is very solidly town for me, and while MME is not, if he's scum there are 2 others to look for. I'm not gonna forego looking at the scumreads in front of me in order to include everyone in my pushes. Can't really push a player who's not here and lynching someone on V/LA D2 is highly suboptimal.

Enjoy STD, C+A.

Even at a brief review, I find that she's very inconsistent in that game. I'm not seeing the similarities.

Can you explain this a bit more? A lot of what happened was a result of weird night actions messing with her IIRC. Basically I roleblocked her N1 on gut and active lurking and the vig shot the person she was planning to lynch.
Then all the setup shit had her very much being semi-inconsistent.
Also she was hunting for the traitor, ABR.

She was inconsistent even at the start of the game, I don't think that was due to your actions.

That post saying she'd vote herself for lurking was also all kinds of weird.

I don't see shit like that here.

What does hunting for the traitor in that game have to do with this one? It's not like we have a sk... If we did and she was hunting that, your point would be relevant. But we don't.

[Cane + Able]

Generally not fond of picking on lurkers, but it would be all kinds of bad if we killed each other off in our paranoia and gave scum a free win if they do happen to be scum.

Not saying they are using their absence as a strategy, just that it would be the height of irony.

[Cane + Able]

I'm going to renew my vote.
VOTE: GIF

My scum list is currently GIF, GGG, and Dino (more on that later).


I realize that NK analysis is mostly futile(I have literally thrown the dice as scum), but I still can't help but do it.

I think leaving Acryon alive is mostly null, but I never found him very scummish. Clearly the death of our cop makes Acryon less valuable, though. And I've looked through Bookitty for any cop crumbs, but didn't see any. I'm guessing scum decided to kill Bookitty for their own reasons and it was just an added bonus that she was the cop.

I think clearly I am the one with the best reasons for killing Bookitty. I was her first scum read. But since I know that I am town, I'm left wondering if scum was trying to implicate me with this kill. It seems unlikely to me. I had enough pressure D1 that it would seem unnecessary

.

That is not her including herself in her lynch pool, and I obviously didn't skim that post considering I quoted YOUR response to it.

[Cane + Able]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=58830

Scum bastards won.

[Cane + Able]

29 whopping posts out of the 3100 that were made before she died.

So yeah... She is lurky.

[Cane + Able]

Don't read day 8 by the way, it's embarrassing.

[Cane + Able]

Delaying before replying can be a sign that you have to carefully prepare your statements and proof read them before posting because you are being careful about what you say, which may or may not be a scumtell, it may also just be a timing issue with TTH and RL near christmas, I was pointing out what I found similar in her SK game to this and different from her latest town game while it was still fresh.

:S

I often do "delay" because I like to give myself time to think about things and have well-written posts. I hate doing what I'm doing now, reacting to things. I actually did often "delay" in that micro game, evidenced by the fact I usually dredged stuff up pages after it happened because I didn't comment on it at the time.

I've been thinking about it today, and most of the quagmire in my reads come from GGG and Idiotking. They're important because their effects domino onto key slots like Cain+Able and copper. I'll unravel this.

Good, I hope you do that soon.

Engage me, it's the best way to get a read on me. I'm often short on time, but I will respond as I can.

[Cane + Able]

Ollie, thanks for subbing in!

Dino, be nice! He's a new player.

Re meta me. I had forgotten about that outrage quote you found(at the top of this page), Dino. I did try to tell you after #574 that it was not a scum tell for me. I almost always get mad and indignant when someone lies/misreps about what I said.

New to the site, not the game.

[Cane + Able]

@Dino
Ollie has probably played before, he kind if says so himself with "first game onsite", he doesn't seem like a player who would scumslip and as far as alignment goes his reaction is null; I also read you as slightly more town for doing that.

That is correct, he played elsewhere.

[Cane + Able]

UNVOTE:

Alright, I can buy that.

[Cane + Able]

I'm too tired to decide on a vote right this second, but it'll most likely be IK unless something changes.

I would like to see him post, though.

[Cane + Able]

Yes, in this case most of us were already onto GGG at the start of the day and ended up overthinking it because of the speed and apparent lack of resistance of his wagon, something similar happened in newbie 1543 where town was going to speed lynch scum 6 pages into day 1 but we ended up complicating the issue there as well.

Do you think GGG is scum or not?

[Cane + Able]

Mod:

Prod IK, please.

[Cane + Able]

So you think GGG and IK are scum together?

[Cane + Able]

Nevermind, found post 1510

[Cane + Able]

I'm not acting like you're making this up.

No, but copper is.

----
Disregarding everything and everybody else, GGG has a better-than-average chance of being scum for a few reasons. The first is the reasoning for moving to the Rudolph wagon yesterday in Post 1288. It was based on a half-baked theory that wasn't really backed with a good reason. Also, when I confronted him about it, he got weirdly defensive about how I perceived the certainty even though the fact he was

voting

based on this theory that there's one scum on every wagon (Post 1353). The disparity between recent activity and the vote is also odd. There's a lot of lip service paid to suspecting Idiotking, but the vote
-----

I was in the middle of typing this paragraph, and I changed my mind on the read since the texcat read makes sense in light of these few sentences in his most recent post: "Tex's post assumes I am town when she says 0 or 3 bussing. This doesn't fit her current read of me. I would like an explanation. There is one I can think of that makes sense to me."
There's really no screwing around in that, and that seems town to me.

That VCA yesterday was really weird and I don't understand it, but that doesn't necessarily make it scummy. GGG had Rudolph as scum in his initial reads list upon replace in (Post 323), so I would think it would be better for him, as scum, to just keep things simple and revert to the previous "read" instead of putting together all this bizarre stuff about wagon analysis.

I think GGG is town. Let's keep going with Idiotking.

Why are you selling IK's wagon from the sidelines?

[Cane + Able]

Remind me how that's 'selling from the sidelines'?

Supporting his wagon without being on it? o_O

[Cane + Able]

Vote Count 2.5
With 11 Alive, it is 6 to lynch.

Idiotking(3)

- copper223, Mathdino, Aneninen

texcat (3)

- Idiotking, TellTaleHeart, GGG

GGG (2)

- Cain + Able, texcat

Not Voting (3)

- My Milked Eek, GuyInFreezer, Acryon

(expired on 2014-12-28 14:00:00) will be the deadline. GuyInFreezer is being replaced. MME has exceeded his announced VLA and failed to respond to a post-VLA prod. He will be replaced if a replacement is found before he returns.

No IK vote from TTH as of this VC.

[Cane + Able]

2 popular scum reads on texcat in that VC, too.

Interesting.

[Cane + Able]

I guess you misunderstood me. When I said, "lets keep going with Idiotking" I meant that I would repeat the exercise of rereading the ISO with Idiotking. Not "keep going" with the wagon.

You seriously support a texcat lynch?

[Cane + Able]

Idiotking has been prodded.

Danke

[Cane + Able]

Vote Count 1.20
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch

Rudolph the Reindeer (7) (L!)

- acryon,

Idiotking

, Cain + Able,

GGG

, texcat,

TellTaleHeart

, copper223

texcat (3)

- bookitty, Rudolph the Reindeer, Mathdino

GuyInFreezer (2)

- My Milked Eek, Aneninen

Vote Count 2.5
With 11 Alive, it is 6 to lynch.

Idiotking(3)

- copper223, Mathdino, Aneninen

texcat (3)

-

Idiotking

,

TellTaleHeart

,

GGG

GGG (2)

- Cain + Able, texcat

Not Voting (3)

- My Milked Eek, GuyInFreezer, Acryon

Look! Same 3 people on both wagons.

Herd mentality!

Only, these two vote counts are more damning than the two you used, because you're defending GGG on top of that.

Also, don't introduce a method of comparing vote counts and act surprised when people analyze it and critique it for logical inconsistencies.

[Cane + Able]

At any rate, I'm feeling better about my GGG vote again.

VOTE: GGG

[Cane + Able]

Up to page 14, gonna give you my reads as I go along so it's not the monster of all monster posts.

Notable things

...

Idiotking

's

predecessor wanted a town bloc, then voted for

Mathdino

for shooting it down. No reason to vote for someone if you're town.

Cane & Abel

makes a big post telling people what to do & what's going to happen. Another gorilla beating their chest early in this game. But a post that long with no real scum hunting content? Red flag.

Cane & Abel

bump's

Gravity

's vote for townie

Pastro

& proclaims it as a good read, trying to steer town down that path? Buddying up to town as well there?

textcat

typed "I haven't seen much of anything that I have found scummy yet" I hate to see that kind of comment. Just not trying?

Rudolf

townreads three players far too early for my liking.

Nice to see the spelling of my name isn't the only thing you can't manage to get right.

[Cane + Able]

I guess you misunderstood me. When I said, "lets keep going with Idiotking" I meant that I would repeat the exercise of rereading the ISO with Idiotking. Not "keep going" with the wagon.

Do you happen to know Einstein's definition of insanity?

If so, why would you make such an empty remark?

[Cane + Able]

I guess you misunderstood me. When I said, "lets keep going with Idiotking" I meant that I would repeat the exercise of rereading the ISO with Idiotking. Not "keep going" with the wagon.

You seriously support a texcat lynch?

[Cane + Able]

I guess you misunderstood me. When I said, "lets keep going with Idiotking" I meant that I would repeat the exercise of rereading the ISO with Idiotking. Not "keep going" with the wagon.

Do you happen to know Einstein's definition of insanity?

If so, why would you make such an empty remark?

Okay... so that post may be a little confbiased.

I'm getting seriously paranoid about TTH, but rereading ISO's is not deserving of that kind of response.

[Cane + Able]

yet C+A is saying she's town due to wagon analysis for the same reason that TTH is calling 3G town -_-

The fuck you say?

[Cane + Able]

Liking texcat's VCA over TTH's does not mean I read texcat as town "because of it".

I've read texcat as town long before she posted it.

[Cane + Able]

I guess you misunderstood me. When I said, "lets keep going with Idiotking" I meant that I would repeat the exercise of rereading the ISO with Idiotking. Not "keep going" with the wagon.

Do you happen to know Einstein's definition of insanity?

If so, why would you make such an empty remark?

Rereading someone's ISO would be insane? :S

Catch up with the rest of the thread, and while you're at it, tell me whether or not you seriously support a texcat lynch.

[Cane + Able]

Okay... so that post may be a little confbiased.

I'm getting seriously paranoid about TTH, but rereading ISO's is not deserving of that kind of response.

I am so confused with what everyone's issue with me this game is right now.

For one thing, I've asked like, 4 times, whether or not you seriously support a texcat lynch, and you continuously avoid what should be a fairly simple question.

P-Edit: Why do you want to lynch texcat?

[Cane + Able]

Vote Count 1.20
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch

Rudolph the Reindeer (7) (L!)

- acryon,

Idiotking

, Cain + Able,

GGG

, texcat,

TellTaleHeart

, copper223

texcat (3)

- bookitty, Rudolph the Reindeer, Mathdino

GuyInFreezer (2)

- My Milked Eek, Aneninen

Vote Count 2.5
With 11 Alive, it is 6 to lynch.

Idiotking(3)

- copper223, Mathdino, Aneninen

texcat (3)

-

Idiotking

,

TellTaleHeart

,

GGG

GGG (2)

- Cain + Able, texcat

Not Voting (3)

- My Milked Eek, GuyInFreezer, Acryon

Look! Same 3 people on both wagons.

Herd mentality!

Only, these two vote counts are more damning than the two you used, because you're defending GGG on top of that.

Also, don't introduce a method of comparing vote counts and act surprised when people analyze it and critique it for logical inconsistencies.

this is what i mean, C+A
wagon analysis can be used for basically any purpose

my issue with TTH is what i already outlined in my mini-wall at her

lemme know if you want me to elaborate anything, TTH

That was my very point in posting it, Math.

TTH seemed to have figured it out, odd that you didn't.

[Cane + Able]

Finally got a chance to break out my laptop... so much easier posting without the squint/scroll/tap procedure!

[Cane + Able]

Note to self: Don't sheep TTH. She thinks her own cases are scummy.

[Cane + Able]

Nice to see the spelling of my name isn't the only thing you can't manage to get right.

My apologies, I'll just call you scum from now on, it'll make things easier.

Coolio. I'll call you SK. Shorter than Ollie!

[Cane + Able]

^town reaction for the record
glad the test actually got results

BS.

Considering the cop was NK'ed, that is an easy reaction to fake by scum.

[Cane + Able]

Fake reaction test in pinging me hard.

[Cane + Able]

Fake reaction test is pinging me hard.

EBWOP

[Cane + Able]

Fake reaction test in pinging me hard.

Ok I like you more now, your last 2 pages where giving me second thoughts.

Phone posting makes it harder to keep track of everything and respond accordingly.

I do what I can, but it's limiting. Much easier when I have the time to post from my laptop.

[Cane + Able]

Fake reaction test in pinging me hard.

Ok I like you more now, your last 2 pages where giving me second thoughts.

Wait, weren't you part of that "test"?

Why do you like me calling shenanigans on it?

*confused*

[Cane + Able]

Thanks. What about Rudolf, thought you had a town read there?

lol?

[Cane + Able]

@C+A
Are you scumreading Dino for it? I was talking about Ollie's reply. I think Dino's try to confirm Ollie is pretty townie.

I've had my suspicions for sometime, and that fake test supports them... but not enough to move my vote.

And of course he's trying to "confirm" Ollie is townie. The question is, is scum!Math trying to "confirm" scum!Ollie, or is he trying to buy towncred by "confirming" town!Ollie?

[Cane + Able]

@C+A
Doing that to your teammate is hella dangerous, unless he already played with Ollie it might blow up in his face. Whereas doing it as town to try and confirm a player he has a town read on, even if it's a long shot, seems like a good idea. I don't see why Dino scum tries to confirm Ollie town either, so I'm left thinking Dino is more town for it, unless he felt the need to try and look more townie, which I doubt since at the moment few people are pressing him.

Considering he's being widely townread, it gives him an opportunity to give his scum buddy an easy in, or supports his town read if Ollie is town (which you are eating up with a spoon).

[Cane + Able]

Ah well, no more laptop. I have to get rolling, my load is ready.

Will be back later, on my phone.

[Cane + Able]

His interactions with me.

But seriously, though.

[Cane + Able]

Elk, why did you steal the pagetop?
I'm the one who keeps stealing the pagetop with null-fluffs all the time ^_^

I've been thinking about it today, and most of the quagmire in my reads come from GGG and Idiotking. They're important because their effects domino onto key slots like Cain+Able and copper. I'll unravel this.

Sensible.

Aneninen has been sheeping me for most of the game, I'm thinking out of a townread on me or because we find the same things scummy but if I had to build a conspiracy theory that's not something I'd gloss over.

Or I'm simply slow and dumb. The first one of those things is about to change now.

Hi everyone! This is my first proper game on this site. Be gentle with me.

Hhhhhhhhhhhhhh how about no? ^_^

(Oh I've just seen it! 6 pages in 1 day ??? WTF has happened here?)

Drunk right now. Will try to catch up tomorrow.
Drunken gut says coppers scun

That might be a piece of useful info later. (Also Copper's 1790, as a reaction.)

Ollie, 1815, what sort of shytty catchup is that?

C+A, 1816 – !!!!!! And indeed, those players are voting in the same way! I don't think TTH is scum, though.

^town reaction for the record
glad the test actually got results

That was about Ollie. Why is he

that

town?

vote: Cane + Able

Uhhh-whytdafuk?!

I don't think TTH is scum either, though today shook my read a little.

My point in posting that was to illustrate that vote counts can be used to say pretty much anything.

[Cane + Able]

Cane & Able

makes a big post telling people what to do & what's going to happen. Another gorilla beating their chest early in this game. But a post that long with no real scum hunting content? Red flag.

Cane & Able

bump's

Gravity

's vote for townie

Pastro

& proclaims it as a good read, trying to steer town down that path? Buddying up to town as well there?

^

I see question marks, but I don't really know what you want me to answer. Should I feel bad for supporting my scum read's wagon?

If I agree with a person's read, should I be suspicious of them for it?

Your "points" don't really have one, imho.

[Cane + Able]

VOTE: GGG

copper seems legit, very thorough attention to detail in this game. We'll see where this goes #buddyingup

Half-heated attempt to push me, then drop your vote when I blow you off and sheep copper with a vague reason?

Idk if that is scum or just really bad town, but I'm keeping an eye on you.

[Cane + Able]

VOTE: GGG

copper seems legit, very thorough attention to detail in this game. We'll see where this goes #buddyingup

Half-hearted attempt to push me, then drop your vote when I blow you off and sheep copper with a vague reason?

Idk if that is scum or just really bad town, but I'm keeping an eye on you.

EBWOP

[Cane + Able]

I think this may be worth noting:
Rudolph the Reindeer (7) - acryon, Idiotking,

Cain + Able

, GGG, texcat, TellTaleHeart,

copper223

GGG (5) -

copper223

,

Cain + Able

, Aneninen, Idiotking, texcat
Acryon (5) – Rudy, Mathdino, Aneninen,

copper223

, GGG,

Cain + Able

(before jumping off last-minute but willing to let the other half come back)

So either one of Copper/C+A is scum and hopping on all of the big wagons, or they are townies with a loooot of major scum-reads that just happen to be the most popular ones. Even if we wanted to say that this statement is a stretch (I'll accept that), at the very least it means I'm not putting much faith in the decision-making of two individuals that appear to jump on every popular wagon.

Vote Count 1.20
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch

Rudolph the Reindeer (7) (L!)

- acryon,

Idiotking

, Cain + Able,

GGG

, texcat,

TellTaleHeart

, copper223

texcat (3)

- bookitty, Rudolph the Reindeer, Mathdino

GuyInFreezer (2)

- My Milked Eek, Aneninen

Vote Count 2.5
With 11 Alive, it is 6 to lynch.

Idiotking(3)

- copper223, Mathdino, Aneninen

texcat (3)

-

Idiotking

,

TellTaleHeart

,

GGG

GGG (2)

- Cain + Able, texcat

Not Voting (3)

- My Milked Eek, GuyInFreezer, Acryon

Look! Same 3 people on both wagons.

Herd mentality!

Only, these two vote counts are more damning than the two you used, because you're defending GGG on top of that.

Also, don't introduce a method of comparing vote counts and act surprised when people analyze it and critique it for logical inconsistencies.

Speaking of logical inconsistencies... Are you really trying to call out her comparison of a 7-wagon and a 5-wagon sharing 4 of the same members to a 7 wagon and a 3 wagon sharing 3 of the same? One of the major issues is that both the GGG wagon and the Rudy wagon were wagons that could easily go all the way. Comparing a wagon with 3 votes, of which there are fully

three

at the moment, with a wagon with 5 is a little disingenuous I think.

TTH didn't seem to mind, and the method was her creation, so IDGAF what your opinion is.

C+A is just looking so scum to me right now. I mean, this post:

Up to page 14, gonna give you my reads as I go along so it's not the monster of all monster posts.

Notable things

...

Idiotking

's

predecessor wanted a town bloc, then voted for

Mathdino

for shooting it down. No reason to vote for someone if you're town.

Cane & Abel

makes a big post telling people what to do & what's going to happen. Another gorilla beating their chest early in this game. But a post that long with no real scum hunting content? Red flag.

Cane & Abel

bump's

Gravity

's vote for townie

Pastro

& proclaims it as a good read, trying to steer town down that path? Buddying up to town as well there?

textcat

typed "I haven't seen much of anything that I have found scummy yet" I hate to see that kind of comment. Just not trying?

Rudolf

townreads three players far too early for my liking.

Nice to see the spelling of my name isn't the only thing you can't manage to get right.

Let's be condescending and insinuate that there are actual legitimate issues with the post, and instead focus on a fluff point. Sorry, but there is no town motivation to doing that.

Nice bit of confbias you have, there. I'm an ass as either alignment.

[Cane + Able]

TTH didn't seem to mind, and the method was her creation, so IDGAF what your opinion is.

And I don't care that one person for some reason felt compelled to accept your poor response, but it still sucked

In your opinion?

Nice bit of confbias you have, there. I'm an ass as either alignment.

That's not the issue. The issue is that plays of that kind are at best bad-town, and very possibly by scum.

And town should care which of the two it is, instead of have your attitude of lynching me with "at best bad town" as reason.

Bad town is still town.

[Cane + Able]

Trying to measure me by some townie formula will not yield accurate results, and some folks have picked up on that while you are clinging to "only stereotypical town deserves to live", which is the source of a lot of mislynches in my experience.

[Cane + Able]

Trying to measure me by some townie formula will not yield accurate results, and some folks have picked up on that while you are clinging to "only stereotypical town deserves to live", which is the source of a lot of mislynches in my experience.

I don't think I ever said that only stereotypical town deserves to live. I do think that only town that supports the town's win-con deserves to live, because if your action is fighting against our win-con or supporting another, you are probably scum. Simply unhelpful town don't deserve to die. But players that appear to be unhelpful town are usually one of two things: bad town or scum. You don't deserve to die for being the former, but you do for being the latter. Saying "you can't read me. I'm not your typical town" doesn't mean your play doesn't look inherently scum-motivated or anti-town.

Anti-town != scum, and is very subjective to playstyle

Since you don't like it, it's anti-town.

[Cane + Able]

Of course I'm scum!









...in the gospel according to acryon.

[Cane + Able]

acryon clarify one thing for me, do you think that C+A is scum or not?

Yep, as I've thought for pretty much the entire game. There was a brief period where Rudy took over and I was sure it was him over C+A, but since that obviously proved wrong, C+A is still scum.

Then when I flip town, you will have contributed heavily to pushing town into MYLO, which is far scummier than anything I've done.

[Cane + Able]

On an unrelated note, I was already unimpressed with MME's slot, and DGB isn't doing anything to change that.

Does anybody know if this is usual for her?

[Cane + Able]

@

mod

: indefinite v/la, emergency.

[Cane + Able]

VOTE: Idiotking

Scummy move, IK.

[Cane + Able]

@C+A
Do you realize you just hammered?

Dammit... I was catching up from my emergency v/la.

[Cane + Able]

I'm very sorry everybody, but it doesn't look like I'm going to have any more time in the near future. I hate to do this, but

Mod, requesting replacement

I'll let the replacement decide if he wants to claim or not, if this slot even survives to be replaced. The only explanation I can give in defense of this slot (since my replacement obviously wouldn't be able to) is that my play today was mostly rushed and half-thought out, since I didn't have time to play. If that's not enough, then so be it. The vote on GGG was indeed just a reaction test, but probably a poorly thought out one.

I also wasn't lying when I said that I didn't remember the intent thing. I didn't put two and two together, and that was because I didn't have much experience with it. Copper only looked at my most recent game, which was over a year ago. The game before that I also discussed intent to hammer. But not one single game before that did I do so. It just wasn't as common in the games I've played, especially since over half of my experience is on another site where "intent" only refers to whether someone's acting genuinely or not.

Anyway, sorry again, and good luck town.

Looks staged as hell, and I hate when people pull that shit when they are being wagoned.

[Cane + Able]

or the fact that ollie announced L-1 right above him

He wasn't at L-1 a of that post. Ollie put him at L-1 afterwards.

[Cane + Able]

VOTE: GGG

Not wasting any time at all scumming up the new day, GGG.

[Cane + Able]

Well, that explains why a claimed macho doc has remained alive for so long...

VOTE: acryon

[Cane + Able]

the last one is probably Texcat for C+A's WK if he flips scum, if he flips town it gets harder

This shit makes no sense.

Scum WK'ing scum? That's retardulous.

If anything, it's indicative of opposing alignments, but as far as I can tell it's simply good old-fashioned town defending town.

[Cane + Able]

my best guess as of now would be GGG.

And where does this even come from?

[Cane + Able]

@C+A
It makes perfect sense for you to try and defend your teammate when she is likely going to get lynched.

Sure, if I wanted to build a blatant association and ensure that my lynch resulted in killing off another member of my team. (IOW: WTF are you smoking?!)

A much more likely scenario assuming House!scum would be texcat!town because it makes 1000x more sense that scum would want to drag a townie down with him when he's lynched.

For being some analytical smart guy, you're fucking up hard on this.

[Cane + Able]

@C+A
It makes perfect sense for you to try and defend your teammate when she is likely going to get lynched.

Sure, if I wanted to build a blatant association and ensure that my lynch resulted in killing off another member of my team. (IOW: WTF are you smoking?!)

A much more likely scenario assuming C&A!scum would be texcat!town because it makes 1000x more sense that scum would want to drag a townie down with him when he's lynched.

For being some analytical smart guy, you're fucking up hard on this.

EBWOP

[Cane + Able]

Can y'all do me a favour and get your votes off so we don't end up speedlynching due to paranoia-full town? Vote him in spirit.

Yeah, I'm actually starting to question the counterclaim, with the goofy theories copper is spouting.

UNVOTE:

[Cane + Able]

@C+A
So in your mind saving a teammate is less likely then WKing a townie that was going to get lynched if you did not try to convince me otherwise, thus actually playing against your wincon as mafia? I'd ask you what you are smoking but this looks more like scum grasping, I'd lynch you in a heartbeat for that hammer yesterday and this nonsence if I didn't have Acryon as basically confirmed.

WK'ing scum is counterproductive because it doesn't achieve the goal of buying towncred when the player being WK'ed flips scum. It's more likely to get the one doing the WK'ing a lynch.

So no. Scum with half a brain wouldn't hard defend scum. Instead, they would defend town and lap up the town cred that a town flip would bring them.

And yesterday's hammer is not alignment indicative for me. I do impulsive shit as either alignment, but moreso as town.

[Cane + Able]

@C+A
Sure so scum House could also go ahead and hammer like a moron and maybe get away with it, fix your town game if you often pull this shit but trying to say it's a town tell is a bit much to swallow.

Tell me, which part of this statement is claiming that my hammer was a town tell:

And yesterday's hammer is not alignment indicative for me.

I do impulsive shit as either alignment, but moreso as town.

It makes sense not to leave associative tells if you can avoid doing so, in the Tex case if you are scum and she is town you just shut the fuck up and let the lynch, which you didn't even support, go through, nice and easy town cred, if she is a teammate of yours the chance of avoiding her lynch, especially if you know you may be able to sway Copper, is a strong incentive to try and help her out so the associative tells don't really matter as much.

Of course I didn't support the lynch! I'm not going to stand by while town lynches my strongest town read and do nothing. DUH!

[Cane + Able]

One of you is a future dead townie

, and the input is valuable.

Why would you leap to this conclusion?

If the counterclaim is true, there would be no future dead townie.

If the counterclaim is false and we lynch copper, there would be no future dead townie.

Something fishy with that post, MD.

[Cane + Able]

Derp. NK.

Nevermind.

[Cane + Able]

I'm still watching you, though. <_<

[Cane + Able]

@C+A

my best guess as of now would be GGG.

And where does this even come from?

If both you and Texcat are town then GGG is likely scum, I already explained why yesterday (if it isn't obvious)

As for your second question, The part where you say

moreso as town

? Sure it could also be that you are both town.

So you just cherrypicked three words and ignored the two statements immediately preceding it where I say that it's not alignment indicative because I do such things

as both alignments

?

Yeah right.

[Cane + Able]

@C+A

Sure it could also be that you are both town.

And you should really do your homework before you try to appease me.

VOTE: copper223

[Cane + Able]

Quote fail.

[Cane + Able]

@C+A
If you say you do it more often as town and you did, aren't you hinting it's more likely you are town? As I already told TTH on the Orcinus case, if you pull blatantly anti-town shit you are getting a scumread from me, I don't care if you also do it as town nor can I verify your claim about the frequency of how often it happens, all I know is your actions are mafia sided and you are supposed to play to your wincon (=/)

The fact that it is easily confirmable that I do it as either alignment is proof positive that it's not alignment indicative. Anything other than that is purely WIFOM.

[Cane + Able]

@C+A
Ok 2 scum in the bag, pretty good start.

You and GGG? Yep. Thanks for the props, but I'd rather they come from town.

[Cane + Able]

please continue, you are just locking in the win for town, care to mention a third name you think is likely town?

Besides obvtown texcat and probtown TTH?

Hmm... at this point, I'd say acryon.

[Cane + Able]

C+A why are you suddenly flip-flopping on acryon

Why would scum!copper fake counterclaim scum!acryon?

[Cane + Able]

So you're telling me you're townreading acryon purely because copper's been weird this page?

Do you have any read on acryon based on HIS posts? You've made few comments on him IIRC since his doc claim and now that's shot to hell.

acryon's doc claim isn't shot to hell just because copper is CC'ing him.

I've been frothing at the mouth trying to find something to strangle acryon with, but he's been pretty solid town from what I've been able to tell.

copper on the other hand has been throwing out some pretty hardcore moonlogic to try to paint 2 town as scummy, then tried to appease me after I called him out on it. Now he's backtracking again and claiming I'm caught scum.

[Cane + Able]

VOTE: acryon
That explains some things.

You're smarter than this.

[Cane + Able]

@

mod

: Please update the OP.

[Cane + Able]

VOTE: acryon
That explains some things.

Please unvote.

Even if you believe copper, running up acryon this early in the day is a mistake. If you're wrong and the counterclaim is fake, scum can plausibly sheep onto the wagon and end the day early.

[Cane + Able]

Actually this does kinda seem silly tbh, it requires a lot of unlikely things to be in place for copper to be suiciding here.

What kind of unlikely things, exactly?

[Cane + Able]

If copper is scum, tomorrow will be wasted lynching him,

What?

Yeah, it's always a waste of time lynching scum donchaknow?

[Cane + Able]

@C+A:
1. The Bookitty thing is huge. Either copperscum did that on purpose and then killed the only person that would understand the crumb, or retroactively found something that could be perceived as a crumb which would be the ultimate dumbass decision for a player like copper.

Or the "crumb" could be fabricated and he killed Boo to avoid her calling shenanigans on it.

2. Then it requires leaving acryon alive and instead going for attempting to dodge both doc protects and prevent the cop from becoming way OP with 2 docs. So in essence it requires scum chose to kill the cop (and somehow found the cop) instead of the doc.

You DO know the cop is dead... right?

3. THEN it requires scum either shooting from the hip when it comes to avoiding both docshots with only I think 8 players to kill in OR managing to figure out that Anen was the doc in time to even pull off the CC strat.

Not really having to dodge two doc protects when it's pretty obvious that TTH is likely to be protected since the consensus is that she's obvtown.

So yeah. Unlikely.

So no. Not really.

[Cane + Able]

the word "dislike" being a crumb? Seriously?

It's no damned wonder the only person that can "confirm" his "crumb" is dead!

[Cane + Able]

I am kind of grateful for this insane paranoia level though because it makes C+A pretty obvious as well, first he votes himself now he is begging for an unvote...

Math brought up a valid point & I unvoted. It's called listening to reason.

Something you obviously stopped doing when you started spouting nonsense.

[Cane + Able]

Right, so according to your theory, scum!acryon, who is likely a much more experienced player than I, "bussed" (technically, distanced is probably a better way to describe it) me in order to paint me as town when he flipped scum?

In what fantasyland would I tunnel my own scummate

so hard that he was pushed into a fake claim to live past day 1

?

I can smell the b/s spewing out of your mouth all the way over here, brah.

[Cane + Able]

@Town: Reread D1 and vote copper.

Obvious scum is obvious.

[Cane + Able]

people can go back and read you know?

@Town: Reread D1 and vote copper.

Obvious scum is obvious.

[Cane + Able]

without being rude, you should consider playing another game.

This is my tame game.

[Cane + Able]

I was so scum D1 I probably had the most townreads besides TTH, I don't think it even makes sense to talk to you, lynch him tomorrow after his teammate.

You're irrelevant D1. We're discussing me & acryon, remember? I pushed him so hard he had to claim doc to avoid the lynch.

[Cane + Able]

@C+A
No, Rudi and later I pushed him, you called him town and joined the wagon at the end, you must be getting pretty desperate.

Yeah, I just reread my ISO.

I said D1 I had a shit memory.

He's still about 100x more town than you.

[Cane + Able]

Edit: Ohhhh. Never mind, that's an even more compelling argument.
What do you make of C+A's chainsaw defending/white knighting?

Claiming I'm scum with acryon and white knighting/chainsaw defending him makes as much sense as the b/s about me being scum with texcat and white knighting her.

It's ridiculous & absolute shit play for scum to stick their neck out for scum. That just means both go down when one flips.

If you're going to parrot copper's nonsense, that tells me that you could well be his buddy. My gut's been telling me you're scum all game, but I've been waiting for something solid on you, MD.

[Cane + Able]

1. I'm only gonna go after you if/when acryon flips scum. If he doesn't, not sure why you're so defencive.

Of the two doc claims, I believe acryon's over copper.

Does that make me omniscient? No. If he's actually lynched and flips scum, me misreading him is not justification to lynch me.

2. Am I using the term incorrectly? I define chainsaw defending as defending someone by attacking their attackers.

Stop it. That's not the point in contention and you know it.

3. You quoted a question. That I wanted input on because I'm not sure whether you as scum would do that.

So you're looking to clutter up the thread with WIFOM? The only person that could answer your question is me. I already answered your question during my exchange with copper, if you have been reading the thread. Whether you believe what I posted or not is textbook WIFOM.

4. Jesus that was defencive...

Jesus that post I replied to was scummy.

[Cane + Able]

VOTE: Copper

goodposting

[Cane + Able]

VOTE: Copper

highly convincing

1) I totally agree.
2) He was pretty clear about being low on time. The snark is unnecessary.

[Cane + Able]

[quote="In post 2119, acryon"]Also Mathdino is almost definitely his buddy[quote]

@copper223
Let me guess, that solidifies acryon and I being scum together since we're scumreading the same people. Amirite?

[Cane + Able]

Also Mathdino is almost definitely his buddy

@copper223
Let me guess, that solidifies acryon and I being scum together since we're scumreading the same people. Amirite?

EBWOP

[Cane + Able]

@C+A
What if he is wrong, isn't there a risk of scum running up the wagon, shouldn't we be asking one of you to unvote? Are you going to claim bad memory from the post you wrote 50 minutes ago?

You brought it up. That is sufficient.

[Cane + Able]

For real though,

UNVOTE:

[Cane + Able]

Me staying alive has and always will be WIFOM though, so scum

do

need to kill me at some point. I think they were hoping town would get bloodthirsty D2, but it didn't happen, so they decided the gambit was best. I'm hoping we can capitalize on that and show them it was an error here.

@Dino

Since you conveniently "missed" this post.

[Cane + Able]

Who are these sleepers?

Maybe MathDino fits the profile, but that's kind of a stretch. Other than you being pants-shittingly bad, it's the only way you being scum would make sense.

Going by your theory, you'd fit the profile best TBH.

[Cane + Able]

Right, I forgot to consider maybe I'm copper's scumbuddy. :S

I'm not calling you copper's scumbuddy, just noting that you'd be the most likely sleeper if your theory were correct.

IOW, I don't believe your theory to be correct.

[Cane + Able]

For those who were active at the time, this also explains why I was miffed about the Boo kill, I don't like getting outsmarted.

And you're just now bringing this up now instead of when it happened?

That's convenient.

[Cane + Able]

Read the exchange between us and tell us how my verbiage with cop replace doesn't make far far more sense than with doc there.

This makes absolute sense.

When I read the post in question, I immediately recognized it as a typo and read doc as cop

because

that's the only way it makes sense.

[Cane + Able]

@Copper
You actually played this pretty well for the most part, but I think you got a little greedy today. You could have played it a little more conservative and probably convinced the town a little better, but instead you tried to misrepresent me and catch me on technicalities that don't actually mean anything, which are just cheap plays. I'm actually a little bummed that you resorted to that, because you had played really well up until now.

His fake cc didn't result in an insta-lynch and he's desperate.

[Cane + Able]

I'm kinda bummed, because I've been wanting acryon to be scum since D1.

[Cane + Able]

Can I just say, that it would be hilarious if there was another CC and acryon & copper

both

turned out to be scum?

[Cane + Able]

Hey everybody, I'm the doctor!

My crumb? My name, of course.

I'm

Doctor

House!

[Cane + Able]

@Ollie:

I don't see why copper scum claims today.

They have an easy lynch in me or texcat to take to Lylo, leave Arcy alive again, then claim at Lylo. You could even bring up how our second doc shouldn't claim until later as if he gets night killed it implicates Acry and as the number of people drop the probability of saving someone increases.

Also scum is kicking our ass this game right now so why take a risk. You lynch me today kill Arcy at night and you have 3 shots at Lylo. That improves your odds of victory. Even if this gambit played out perfectly the end result is a 5 person Lylo.

Scum claiming copper is a bad play and does not make sense

I think this is the perfect time to fake the CC. The second doc just got outted, so no one could have CC'd before now, and a CC tomorrow would be a lot less believable, because it

is

such a good strategy for scum. Something tells me the town wouldn't buy that CC from copper if he did it in LyLo. Right now is the

perfect

time to do it. No one will believe it's scum, because they would expect scum to wait for a better time. Basically, they get an extra kill here for free that they wouldn't get at another point. And you would never kill me at night, because I have been left alive the whole time in hopes that I would get lynched or at worst, they could wait and fake CC me like they did now. This plan is so much better than lynching me.

If they just try to play it straight today, and we ended up lynching scum, we would go from 3v6 today to 2v5 tomorrow, and possibly worse from there. Compare this with the current plan which would take them from 3v6 today to 3v4 tomorrow to 2v3 the next day. This way

assures

that, at worst, they are looking at 2v3 2 days from now, with zero PRs mind you. Playing it straight means they could end up at 1v4 2 days from now. The safer play is actually what they're doing right now.

[Cane + Able]

Hahahahahahahahahahaha!

[Cane + Able]

@Ollie
Who is blatantly defending me?

Scumslip brah. Ollie was referring to my flip on acryon, I'm pretty sure.

[Cane + Able]

Copper hasn't swayed my intention to vote for him.

His attack (and that's all this fake counterclaim is) is nothing more than a calculated maneuver.

[Cane + Able]

My scumread is voting my scumread... <.<

[Cane + Able]

I mean, I'd normally write it off as bussing, but he has no need to here because copper has the most support.

[Cane + Able]

Thanks. That makes me feel much better about the switch and my scum read voting my scum read. Certainly things will become clearer after the flip.

Him suspecting TTH makes you feel better about switching his read on the acryon/copper issue?

What?

[Cane + Able]

If you think Copper is scum, it seems natural to think that his supporters are also scum.

That's crap logic.

1) It's an awful lot to risk for a single mislynch to have the entire scumteam backing a fakeclaim.
2) You're excusing a scumread on someone (namely, TTH) who has done absolutely nothing to deserve it based on circumstances beyond her control.

GGG's logic sounds scummy as shit, and you're being duped if you're buying into it.

This crap with GGG is making me reconsider copper vs acryon.

[Cane + Able]

Why are we stacking up votes already? There's still a lot of time left in the day, and recent developments are unsettling.

[Cane + Able]

Why are we stacking up votes already? There's still a lot of time left in the day, and recent developments are unsettling.

What are you talking about?

Acryon & copper are both L-2 by my count. Scum can slip in and hammer the real doc without raising any eyebrows if they're not already on the wagon.

The day isn't even half over yet, so I don't see why we're putting them within hammer range.

[Cane + Able]

That post was in answer to acryon.

Now answering copper, yeah, I do think GGG is scum here.

Of course he's scum! I've just been saying that for...like..ever!

[Cane + Able]

Wait for Dino to post and for C+A to commit before putting Acryon in hammer range.

Waiting on little old me?

VOTE: copper

Die, scum.

[Cane + Able]

Of course it did, but just because I'm rethinking matters doesn't mean I'm going to automatically change my mind.

I'm happy with my intial read of the situation, and you... I think you're distancing from copper to eat up town cred when acryon flips town because it's looking like he's the likely lynch.

[Cane + Able]

Of course it did, but just because I'm rethinking matters doesn't mean I'm going to automatically change my mind.

I'm happy with my intial read of the situation, and you... I think you're distancing from copper to eat up town cred when acryon flips town because it's looking like he's the likely lynch.

If you think he's flipping town why afe you voting with him.

This post makes zero sense.

[Cane + Able]

Also C/A your combiased as he'll against me right now. I could have just voted Arcy, flip flopped or just voted copper and either Arcy or copper could have flipped scum and you'd have found a way to find it scummy.

That's... actually a fair point.

I'll reset my read of you as of this post and try to be more objective.

[Cane + Able]

You're on crack.

[Cane + Able]

Acryon has been damned near as town as TTH, and I've been on the fence about copper. His complicated theorycrafting didn't help me clarify my read, but his fakecounter did.

[Cane + Able]

We actually should give them both time to post any thoughts as one is scum and the other gets night killed.

Agreed & seconded.

[Cane + Able]

Once again they don't need you to tell them to share their thoughts if they think they have a good insight.

That is completely different from everyone giving a (possibly conditional) readlist instead of focusing on likely the game winning decision of who to lynch now, that's information overflow, likely redundant and/or outdated by the time town can use it, helpful to scum to decide who to bring to lylo... you get my point.

It is also not helpful for the replacement if you all produce a ton of content now so try not to unless there is a valid reason for it.

Obviously the decision of which one of us is scum right now is most important, but most people seem pretty entrenched. Discussing future game-play seems more beneficial than general silence.

And obviously everyone can do as they wish, just like I can express what I think the right play for townies is. But certainly many players have a natural tendency to keep things in unless they are asked about it directly. As an example, right now everyone most likely has comments about just about every player, but only 2 are being discussed. The whole point of asking questions and asking for reads from people is to bring that information to the town for future use. Having current information from a confirmed townie is pretty important for near future game-play. You know what information is worse than redundant or outdated information? No information. I'd take information with a 10% chance of being useful 100% of the time over no information, which has 0% chance of being useful.

If town knew more, or if we actually would have a PR left tomorrow, then I would agree that we can/should keep some information to ourselves. But as it stands, we are considerably behind in terms of information, so I think the little bit we may get from town speaking out is more useful to us than it is to scum.

Everybody needs to step back and read these two posts outside of the context of this 1v1 & be honest with yourself about which perspective is coming from scum & which one is town.

[Cane + Able]

(expired on 2015-01-12 02:00:00) will be the deadline for Day 3.

Reminder because... slow.

[Cane + Able]

Everybody needs to step back and read these two posts outside of the context of this 1v1 & be honest with yourself about which perspective is coming from scum & which one is town.

The special relevance of the posts you quoted aren't readily apparent to me. Could you please elaborate?

Forget this game in its entirety. Forget the names of the posters.

Read the two posts, consider them to be made by "Jack" and "Jill".

Which post, outside of these circumstances and this game as a whole, strikes you as coming from a pro-town mindset if they were each posted on a website all by themselves?

[Cane + Able]

I have made up my mind on this based on the SEQUENCE and TIMING of the claims, the whole thing is super clear cut, I will not change my vote.

I will lurk until deadline and vig everyone on the copper wagon tonight, so watch out.

Nice try, but you're not a vig.

But hey, if you need to fake a PR to feel better about your own powerlessness, have a blast.

[Cane + Able]

So now Mathdino can hammer on his preferred candidate and we don't need to wait for the Gravity/Orcinus/GIF/Ollie replacement?

Oddly, those are my two scum reads. GGG has moved into my town/null column in spite of his waffling and voting for scum.

Who are your two scumreads?

[Cane + Able]

And Copper, of course

If MathDino flipped town, would your read on copper & Ollie's slot change?
If Ollie's slot was mod confirmed town, would your read on MathDino and copper change?
If copper flipped town, would your read on MathDino and Ollie's slot change?

[Cane + Able]

And Copper, of course

If MathDino flipped town, would your read on copper & Ollie's slot change?
If Ollie's slot was mod confirmed town, would your read on MathDino and copper change?
If copper flipped town, would your read on MathDino and Ollie's slot change?

Why are you asking? no, no, no. Are you trying to make some point?

I will certainly re-evaluate after the Acryon/Copper flip and might find someone scummier than Dino and Ollie, but speculation pre-flip seems pointless. I was just putting my suspicions out there before nightfall.

I was wondering if your reads of those three players were independent of each other or based on associatives.

[Cane + Able]

Everyone should probably give their reads list out because if I get lynched, somebody that isn't copper is dying tonight.

Dripping Goofball

: Scum (associative with Math)

GGG

: Scum (independent; scum off the wagon)

Ollie

: Town (PoE)

TellTaleHeart

: Town (obvtown mislynching our doc makes me sad)

copper223

: Scum (fake counterclaim)

acryon

: Town (real doc)

Mathdino

: Scum (associative with copper; buying cc without analysis)

texcat

: Town (meta)

[Cane + Able]

So actually, the late voters on copper's wagon have a higher probability of being scum.

Im switching back.

VOTE: arcy

Coppers scummier overall but the timing doesnt make sense. Flipflop number 2

Thats also L1

Im switching back.

VOTE: arcy

Coppers scummier overall but the timing doesnt make sense. Flipflop number 2

yessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss

You're going down tomorrow. It's not possible to be more blatant than this without mod confirmation.

[Cane + Able]

Or day after tomorrow if town derps and hammers acryon.

[Cane + Able]

(expired on 2015-01-12 02:00:00) will be the deadline for Day 3. Ollie is being replaced.

What's the verdict on a deadline extension?

[Cane + Able]

So actually, the late voters on copper's wagon have a higher probability of being scum.

Im switching back.

VOTE: arcy

Coppers scummier overall but the timing doesnt make sense. Flipflop number 2

Thats also L1

Im switching back.

VOTE: arcy

Coppers scummier overall but the timing doesnt make sense. Flipflop number 2

yessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss

You're going down tomorrow. It's not possible to be more blatant than this without mod confirmation.

k, so apparently I'm on/off dyslexic. <.<

[Cane + Able]

hi

So I'm the 5th person in this slot, huh? I'll try to ensure there won't need to be a sixth.

I've been skimming the game a bit but I would greatly appreciate any tl;drs anyone wants to give me, pointing me to key posts like claims, that sort of thing.

also I'm aware there's apparently some sort of claim-counterclaim situation going on right now?

Be calm and vote copper.

[Cane + Able]

If Arcy is scum and I'm scum I think sitting on the copper would have been the right choice and hope the replacement lynches copper. So at least the second flip flop would make no sense.

Except Acryon isn't scum, which you're conveniently leaving out in your self-analysis.

Why is that?

[Cane + Able]

nvm. reread your post.

I'm tired, g'night.

[Cane + Able]

If Arcy is scum and I'm scum I think sitting on the copper would have been the right choice and hope the replacement lynches copper. So at least the second flip flop would make no sense.

Except Acryon isn't scum, which you're conveniently leaving out in your self-analysis.

Why is that?

Read three lines above where I say if copper is scum.

nvm. reread your post.

I'm tired, g'night.

[Cane + Able]

Finally!

VOTE: copper

[Cane + Able]

Spoiler: DGB Scum

Idiotking L-1

Wait for a role claim from the replacement.

I'm happy to unvote depending on what is said.

Why are you pushing for a role claim when no intent has been declared.

Oh this intent-declaring stuff is BS.

Claim at L-1.

Scumposting.

Sorry I didn't realize night was over. Just checked, still alive. Catching up.

This looks pretty tryhard. On its own, it's not damning, but with everything else against her, it's pretty bad.

I can't get into this game tbh.

Mod replace me please

. Joined a game with shorter posts & no wall wars.

conftown exit

Who died last night? Oh, that's right. Ollie's replacement.

I don't think Ollie's exit was conftown at all, perhaps you are a bit paranoid about who could be considered obvtown and NK'ed accordingly?

It's virtually impossible for copper to be scum.

Way to push that mislynch.

How is it even possible? Scum can just NK the second doctor and leave it be without going into a 1-1 with a townie that will lead to their own lynch sooner rather than later.

Just NKing me means there is a chance we lynch scum today. Doing what they did means they can avoid that and for sure get into a 2-shot LyLo. And if I can't convince you, you'll at least be convinced by my flip

That made no sense.

Here is what you'd want me to believe:

During the day, TOWNacryon gets wagoned and claims doctor.

During the night, SCUM NKs a player that flips doctor. Great! Scum only one more doctor to get rid of.

The following day, SCUMcopper fakeclaims being a third doctor and goes 1 on 1 with TOWNacryon instead of simply NK'ing TOWNacryon tonight.

Here is how I believe it went down.

During the day, SCUMacryon gets wagoned and fakeclaims doctor.

During the night, SCUM NKs a player that flips doctor. Oh shit, what bad luck, now the real doctor knows that the SCUM was fakeclaiming! What are scum going to do?

The following day, naturally, the real TOWNcopper doctor counterclaims and shows up as a "third" doctor.

Which way did it go down?

Putting it this way, it's a no-brainer.

Really?

If this is such an impossible play for scum to do, doesn't that kind of make it the

perfect

play to do as scum? It's insane to me that people are ignoring this angle and possibility.

I would love to be scum with you someday.

Too busy being scum with copper this time though, right?

I have made up my mind on this based on the SEQUENCE and TIMING of the claims, the whole thing is super clear cut, I will not change my vote.

I will lurk until deadline and vig everyone on the copper wagon tonight, so watch out.

Scumposting.

No one, no one should be falling for acryontown, acryon is scum through and through.

You say he's scum through and through, but your only case against him is that he was fakeclaiming.

Except... he wasn't fakeclaiming. You completely ignored the rest of his play throughout the game, and discounted any possibility of copper faking the counterclaim.

There will be consequences for anyone on the copper wagon, come tomorrow.

Way to intimidate those voting for your buddy...

Copper's fakeclaim wasn't enough on its own merits to get the job done, so you had to step in and push the wagon before it fell apart and backfired on him.

VOTE: DrippingGoofBall

[Cane + Able]

Welcome mastin, thanks for replacing in.
Another odd NK. Nothing scum has done has made sense to me. And I had GIF/eusorio on my scum list forever. Now I'm back to Dino/mastin and GGG. But could be convinced that C&A is scum.

I agree with GGG, but I think DGB is their buddy.

Sell me on Dino/mastin.