Open 580: Tit For Tat - Game Over!

[T S O]

vote: netherspite

vroom vroom motherfucker, VROOM VROOM

[T S O]

fuck nether we regroup in the scum qt immediately

PEDIT: NO NO NO YOU'RE DRAWING ATTENTION TO US

[T S O]

requesting amnesty + police protection if I turn Nether in

[T S O]

My role PM didn't tell me who it was, but surely yours did.

[T S O]

Mine neither It only lists you as my partner.
Is it incorrect role PM?

No.

It's just us.

We've sold each other out - the third Mafioso was just a myth.

*breaks down*

[T S O]

We? I think you mean you, Nether.

*puts on sunglasses, whips out gun*

[T S O]

No, I understand now. Everyone got a scum PM except 3 people, who got a town one. town -are- scum.

disclaimer: this actually happened except we were a masonry with a vig. it was unpleasant.

[T S O]

We really need to improve our scumplay.

[T S O]

I'm beginning to feel mildly uncomfortable.

UNVOTE
VOTE: MALAKITTENS

[T S O]

spotfoir my boy you got us good. i'm off to bus my scumbuddy.

[T S O]

vote: waffle

this is not a joke vote; stop fucking posting in red, it makes my eyes bleed.

[T S O]

will actually read/not skim later, not much seems to have happened though

[T S O]

actually #76 is also awkward as shit so bonus points to me in retrospect for the vote

but mainly he needs to stop posting in red

[T S O]

I think we can all agree on "Waffle should stop posting in red", at least.

[T S O]

Hey, Waffle, have you considered that by posting in that colour you inhibit the rest of us from, I don't know, scumhunting? How did you put it again? 'fuck scum hunting, am I right?'

RVS and the time for trolling and gimmicks are over; you posting in that colour is disrupting at least 1 town member in me; if you want to claim you're aiding the town in scumhunting the first thing you can do is stop provoking us by posting in that colour.

Got it?

[T S O]

Well if you read through TSO, you see that he literally has only claimed scum and yelled at waffle.

I'm not sure where Bulb got his straight townread from.

If you look at Mala and Nether, they at least have done other things besides play around, and they were merely following the joke. With Mala being the stronger town of the two.

Which leaves us with agree on Mala, half agree on Nether, and disagree on TSO.

Okay, so you're calling me scum here for "claiming scum and yelling at waffle." And, that's terrible and all, but that could just be you as a player, rather than your alignment.

But then in your third sentence, you justify not scumreading both Mala and Nether because they were "following the joke." That's bullshit. If you're going to call it a joke then what you're saying here is "People who start jokes are scummy but those who follow them aren't!" That is the only way that scumreading me but not then makes sense. It's also absolute horseshit.

And, as well as that, trolling does have its benefits - namely, if it looks forced, it can give an early scumread, and vice versa. And, yeah, it's fun. Can you point out which of these makes scum more likely to do it? Because in a later post, you say it's 'muddying the waters' or something like that. Muddying what waters? The waters where we all make random votes and give obscure reasons?

I really hate this post, because your logic does not add up whatsoever, and it's not due to lack of understanding/being bad, it's you deliberately misinterpreting what's going on.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: SpitFire216

[T S O]

Shoutout to you, Waffle, I'm taking my vote off you - don't let me down.

[T S O]

catching up soon.

I'd like to ask acryon why specifically he is townreading spitfire because I ain't seen shit yet to make me even consider it

[T S O]

I'm on in 90 mins - want to discuss his vote, and his response to me attacking it.

[T S O]

@T S O:

Can I get some thoughts on anyone else (that is, besides Spitfire) from you? Just as long as it's interesting I don't really mind who.

Sure. Bulbazak is a nulltown read, emphasis on the null. Hope you get some fun out of that one.

Bulb said he wasn't really buying it, and I don't need to sell it to him. If he thinks I'm lying about how I say I feel about TSO, that's his prerogative, and I don't mind.

I simply don't get why you wouldn't try to sell something to someone if you believe in it whatsoever - explain?

I made a few comments about my suspicion on TSO for initiating the claiming scum joke.

Can you make a few more? Because I also made a few comments regarding it, and I didn't see anything since them which addresses my points.

TSO is probably the most interesting of the mix, and we'll see how he responds to my questions.

I don't remember you asking any questions and I highly doubt I'm going to go through your ISO to look for them - I'll be nice and let you quote them.

Bulb is someone I feel fine in throwing into the town ring.

I think the majority of people in this game, experience or no, need to take a step back and realise that what Bulba has done so far is easily faked as scum. This is from somebody who has played scum with him, and from someone who has also won as scum doing something like it.

You can't just go "Oh, cool, he's asking questions which aren't awful, townpile." Don't do it. You might catch one scum member,maybe, but the others will just slip underneath you easily.

[T S O]

@Spitfire

, I'd also like an answer to my #150; the question may not have been clear so I'll rephrase it.

Supposing that you are town, you have a townread on Bulbazac. He is scumreading you presently.

Considering that he is a reasonably skilled player as town, why and how do you think he is misreading your alignment?

What answer do you expect from this question which could possibly benefit you?

[T S O]

Well if you read through TSO, you see that he literally has only claimed scum and yelled at waffle.

I'm not sure where Bulb got his straight townread from.

If you look at Mala and Nether, they at least have done other things besides play around, and they were merely following the joke. With Mala being the stronger town of the two.

Which leaves us with agree on Mala, half agree on Nether, and disagree on TSO.

Okay, so you're calling me scum here for "claiming scum and yelling at waffle." And, that's terrible and all, but that could just be you as a player, rather than your alignment.

------------------------------------

But then in your third sentence, you justify not scumreading both Mala and Nether because they were "following the joke." That's bullshit. If you're going to call it a joke then what you're saying here is "People who start jokes are scummy but those who follow them aren't!" That is the only way that scumreading me but not then makes sense. It's also absolute horseshit.

And, as well as that, trolling does have its benefits - namely, if it looks forced, it can give an early scumread, and vice versa. And, yeah, it's fun. Can you point out which of these makes scum more likely to do it? Because in a later post, you say it's 'muddying the waters' or something like that. Muddying what waters? The waters where we all make random votes and give obscure reasons?

I really hate this post, because your logic does not add up whatsoever, and it's not due to lack of understanding/being bad, it's you deliberately misinterpreting what's going on.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: SpitFire216

Hey, Spitfire, I added a cut-off line to this post which should get you to see where your logic goes from "bad at game" to "scum."

[T S O]

didn't really read tonight, will tomorrow.

[T S O]

Sorry, guys, my Christmas tests are on and I'm studying 5 hours a day for them, which is exhausting me.

But I like you lot, so I'll definitely do my best to catch up.

Asking me questions/restating them would be very helpful if you want them answered.

[T S O]

v/la until thursday - sorry, guys

[T S O]

Tests finish today, activity begins today! Rejoice, my minions.

[T S O]

I'm back.

[T S O]

Re: TSO/Mala/Nether scum-read. I still feel that there is a good chance one of them is scum. I wouldn't be my life on it, but I think it is likely. The nature of that read means that I'm not going to push very hard on any one of the three for now, as 1) two of the three are quite experienced, so they know how to respond accordingly a scum, and 2) the fact that there are still 3 means I'd be sort of trying to shoot fish in a barrel. My reasoning for pointing all of this out early on was

never

to try and push one of them D1. It was to put the idea out there for everyone to keep in mind as the game progresses, as I think it could be critical later on in working some things out. It also happened to help push the game out of RVS, which I certainly didn't mind either. Maybe people will disagree with waiting off and not trying to push one/all of them today, but I think that would do much more to obfuscate the other scum than it would to reveal which of the three were scum, at least this early.

I still don't get why you are saying this - I have no idea why you feel trolling is more likely to come from town than scum. It makes no sense at all, and you never explained it.

[T S O]

I dislike how Pasch and Nether haven't initiated an interaction with me.

TSO too but he hasn't talked to anyone so

@Pasch/Nether: Why is my slot scum?

Happily, that time is over.

Anyone else notice how Xayzeck is defending Shinobi by questioning his attacker, while Mala is just flat out defending him?
I'd think this is the scum team, if it weren't so unlikely that they'd be so obvious about defending each other.

Nope, have no idea what you're going for here at all. Really, this is incredibly tenuous.

[T S O]

Also, I haven't read much. Still love ya'll though.

[T S O]

You calling them the scumteam. But then again, you kinda row back on that one, so the post was basically useless.

[T S O]

Okay.

I'm historically bad at reading Paschendale, but I need someone to accurately summarise the case against him. I don't get it, at all.

Bulba, you're up.

[T S O]

Dave, is there any particular reason your play has been so insipid this game? Just wondering.

[T S O]

If he'll flip town feel free to lynch me tomorrow.

I have definitely played this card before as scum.

[T S O]

Yep!

[T S O]

I mean, none of your pushes have felt genuine and you don't appear to have any interest in doing anything. Why's that?

[T S O]

Yeah, actually, it'd be you.

[T S O]

Unvote

I am completely not caught up with this game and I need to change that.

[T S O]

Pasch's stuff on the last two pages makes me not want to lynch him.

[T S O]

Mala's vote is ugly and she should have definitely gave a reason. I'm not townreading her anymore.

[T S O]

It kinda feels like scum are designating me as a mislynch with people questioning townreads on me, but I'll town soon.

Vote: davesaz

[T S O]

Dave is the best wagon today. When I pushed him, there was a general non-response. That makes me feel better about doing so.

[T S O]

3/4 of an hour to go. I'll be here if I have to switch. Still seen nothing to believe Pasch is scum.

@Tempest: I've played well in games I've been with Pasch - see Faith Plus One, where I won as scum and Revolution, where I won as town.

[T S O]

Le sigh...

Spitfire produced no valuable content and was concerned with self-defense from the get go. His reactions were substantially larger than whatever criticisms were laid against him. He had minimal interest in determining anyone else's alignment and his reactions to other people's ideas were more focused on the person offering those ideas than on the ideas themselves. That is, he was looking for something safe to attach to, rather than trying to figure anything out.

This is classic newbscum behavior. As you may have seen in my initial comments, I was reluctant to accept something so obvious. I've learned to second guess reads made so quickly. However, Spitfire's content continued not to come from a place of trying to figure things out, but rather were solely about his own position. He could have just been lynchbait, but his actions didn't confirm that idea. They confirmed the idea that he is a beginner scum who isn't quite sure how to look genuine when he doesn't really mean it.

Meanwhile, since Xay has arrived, his primary preoccupation has been with excusing Spitfire's play, rather than doing something better himself. This is someone concerned with protecting himself and surviving, not finding scum. That's why his only real target has been me, the loudest detractor of his slot.

------

Shinobi, meanwhile, has spent a lot of time stalling. He seriously advocated for a policy lynch, which is pretty much always a bad idea. He, like Spitfire, got overly defensive at the drop of a hat and even misrepresented my criticism of him in order to throw off suspicion. He also looks as if he is trying to leverage his position, rather than determine alignment. His vote and then immediate unvote of Bulba looked like he was trying to see if the rest of the group would think him town for the vote, rather than it being a good vote he'd stand behind. And then his vote on Nether is just plain awful. This is someone looking for a strategic position, not scumhunting.

His waffly bit about semantic differences also really struck me. It was a way to justify his conclusions without actually supporting them. He was basically admitting that he wasn't going to have good reasons for his votes, and that his predetermined positions would just have to do. We were in agreement about Shinobi for a while? What changed for you?

PeEdit: Because he's scumhunting and making good points. Things that you are not doing.

This is the sort of post scum likely to be lynched does not make. Seriously. Pasch is town. No-one has offered anything remotely substantial in favour of Pasch-scum.

[T S O]

Ah, Aquanim.

[T S O]

Yes, TSO, I know you're either white-knghting or protecting your buddy. Clap clap, you've made your point.

Expand this, yes?

[T S O]

Are you like 4 or something? The image is nearly as shit as your play today.

[T S O]

Are you like 4 or something? The image is nearly as shit as your play today.

I put about the same effort into it as you have into this game. That is to say, next to none.

Keep talking shit TSO. You can't take me.

Try me.

You going to keep running away from calling me scum, yeah?

[T S O]

Try me.

You going to keep running away from calling me scum, yeah?

You'll keep until tomorrow. Unless the vigilante shoots you, that is.

This needs death.

[T S O]

Yes, TSO, I know you're either white-knghting or protecting your buddy. Clap clap, you've made your point.

He has a complex where he is incapable of answering this question. I've asked him multiple times - I can only conclude he has no answer to it.

PEdit: Nah. You asked to bring it, little man, why are you backing down?

[T S O]

I mean, if you're softing Vig - great. Go ahead and shoot me. Just make sure you can explain to Town why you shot me. They'll want to know.

[T S O]

Yes, yes, keep justifying your mislynch, Aquanim.

[T S O]

What's so funny, little man

[T S O]

I notice the vig had some sense and shot scum over me - acryon, hope you're seeing this shit.

[T S O]

TSO clearly went far out of his way to push the best available counter wagon. Pasch had previously left that counter wagon and town read the target, most likely to clear the way so his buddies could push it without being associated by being in the same push. That it was me has no bearing on this analysis, I merely happened to have noticed it "yesterday" and made a note to look at TSO to find out where his push came from.

That's the most ridiculous thing ever.

I've played this set-up and I don't think scum have daytalk. Without daytalk, this would be impossible to coordinate. Hell, even with daytalk it would be impossible to coordinate.

I could be wrong about the daytalk, but I don't think I am. This is a bullshit reason to vote me, and the vote's coming from the guy I pushed all of yesterday.

Vote: davesaz

[T S O]

Then the whole thing is confirmed bullshit.

[T S O]

That Pasch would leave your wagon so I could get on your wagon. It's like you think scumplay is so stilted that we had to perform this stupidly complex manoeuvre.

You don't actually think that - you're just making up a reason to vote me. And it stinks.

[T S O]

Speaking of which, TSO, I have some questions for you.

...

as shit as your play today

.

Why did you think my day 1 play was bad?

Try me.

You going to keep running away from calling me scum, yeah?

You'll keep until tomorrow. Unless the vigilante shoots you, that is.

This needs death.

Why did you think this post and my play in general was worth lynching?

Didn't see them - will answer later.

the one problem I have with TSO is that I felt he wasn't sorting out Bulba like he did in the past. Revolution mafia he was so aggressive that Bulba was scum from one post here yet he danced around it.

Because Bulba scumposted there and I knew it and I was right. Here, he hasn't done that yet - plus I don't have half the fucking game sorted yet due to school being on.

@Mod: If the role cop investigates the mafia back-up JK, what is the result?

Why would it be irregular?

[T S O]

What about that post made you think scum?

[T S O]

lol

[T S O]

I just find it hilarious that -you- are accusing -me- of making up bullshit reasons for a vote. Seriously, it's a joke.

[T S O]

Dave, here's a hint: when I'm scum and say obviously wrong things, I don't continue telling other people they're right. Hope it improves your game.

[T S O]

You can try to policy lynch me if you want. I know you're mad because I called you bad and that hurt your little pride. I still won't care.

[T S O]

@davesaz

How on earth can #689 be a reason to vote someone?
I would understand (partially) if you would mention his previous posts where he was pressuring you.
But this specific post has nothing to do with making up a reason to vote someone...

Oh look I'm just going to answer this one...
Dave said "the interaction starting at #689", in which TSO says some stuff about Dave's posting which he completely fails to substantiate and then runs off without voting for Dave.

It kinda feels like scum are designating me as a mislynch with people questioning townreads on me, but I'll town soon.

Vote: davesaz

If you're going to make up shit, at least do it right.

[T S O]

You can try to policy lynch me if you want. I know you're mad because I called you bad and that hurt your little pride. I still won't care.

You see, there's two options as far as that goes:
1) you had some reason why you thought I was bad and should be lynched
2) you're scum who made shit up to chainsaw for Paschendale

You gonna give me a reason to think it's not (2)?

Sure. Like I said,

I would answer the questions later.

I have this thing called real life on and, believe it or not, it takes precedence over a forum game.

[T S O]

lol

Two things are possible in this scenario:

1) I am scum, and your questions are so brilliant and incisive they're boggling my puny mind, so I have to stall for time.
2) I am town, and I'm procrastinating on answering them.

That you think it's the former speaks volumes about your ego and ability.

[T S O]

Bulba, please get your goddamn ass in here.

[T S O]

...

as shit as your play today

.

Why did you think my day 1 play was bad?

Because, at the time, you were pushing Pasch for no apparent reason, as well as being an arrogant cunt.

Neither went down well with me.

Try me.

You going to keep running away from calling me scum, yeah?

You'll keep until tomorrow. Unless the vigilante shoots you, that is.

This needs death.

Why did you think this post and my play in general was worth lynching?

Because you called me scum, you never substantiated it, you refused to reply or elaborate on it once after you said it. You just yelled it out and ran away.

Coincidentally, isn't this the reason you're calling me scum? Because it looks like it to me.

[T S O]

My question's not brilliant and incisive at all. It's very simple. What reasons did you have for saying something? Not that hard a question to answer, if you have reasons.

Your ad hominems are duly noted.

So, to clarify this, you felt I was scum because I wasn't able to answer the questions and thus was stalling for time despite the questions being simple to answer?

Fucking lol.

[T S O]

You're welcome. It would probably have been easy for most, but my little scum brain almost overloaded when I tried.

[T S O]

Can you point out the gaping flaws so I may improve my scumgame? Please?

[T S O]

I have no interest in improving your scum game.

Aquanim voted me for not answering his questions.
I answered them.
He said they were scum answers.
I asked him to tell me how.
He didn't say shit and continued to push me.

This is fucking bullshit.

[T S O]

for the record, if we're not lynching TSO I prefer dave as a lynch to Nether quite a bit

"If we can't lynch the guy with the most votes, can we lynch the guy with the second most votes?"

See, this is why I think you're scum.

[T S O]

Can someone please explain why they are townreading Aquanim?

[T S O]

Spoken like a true scumfuck.

[T S O]

TSO only at this point.

Then back it the fuck up? You're not going to mislynch me without a damn good case.

[T S O]

(3)

T S O -

acryon, davesaz

(L-2)

Everyone on this wagon has given either no reasoning (acryon) or reasoning which I disproved the fuck out of (davesaz. I have no idea why I am being voted by either of these (well, dave's scum, but aside from that he's still got no reasoning whatsoever) and I will continue to ask this question until I get a half-decent answer.

[T S O]

You might be scum, you might not be scum - I want to talk to Bulba and Mala and possibly Xay about you before I actually consider you as the last scum. dave is more likely to be scum simply because some of the arrogant play from you doesn't seem like scumplay as much as his.

PEdit: I'm fairly sure you threw the first stone.

[T S O]

@TSO

Why are you so concerned about your survival?
Don't you win if we find the scum later even if you'll be dead at that point?

Because I don't want to be mislynched?

Like this post SCREAMS "I know you are town."

Weren't you hard scumreading me? Go back that up or admit you can't.

Perhaps you thought so. That's no excuse for the disrespect you've shown others in this game.

I think that's just you - but nice job sidestepping the fact that I was not mean until you began to flaunt your arrogance.

The reason nobody's discussing their scum read of you is that everyone who shares it knows it's pretty bloody obvious (the biggest part being that you tried to brush off the Paschendale wagon without any decent reason to do so)

Actually, I don't see why this makes me scum - I had history of suspecting davesaz, I asked for the Pasch case, no Pasch case was given, so I voted dave. I would love if you pointed out the scum agenda in this. I can't see it - clearly you, though, can.

everyone who disagrees does so for vague reasons of meta none of them will explain

So, to put this on context, you're going to completely disregard the word of everyone who knows my townplay because no reason? That's great play.

and nobody wants to talk to you about it because you're not an enjoyable person to talk to.

Again, I've talked to everyone and no-one can back it up, least of all you... save me your rubbish ad homs and admit I'm not scum.

[T S O]

@TSO

That post was rather screaming "if you're town you're playing it wrong".
I never understood people who are concerned about their own survival while playing town not in LyLo situation.

I know I am town, 100%.
I believe I can help town find the last scum.
I do not know the confirmed alignment of any other alive player - therefore, they could flip scum, while I cannot.

Why would I let town mislynch me? It won't help them - it's a confirmed mislynch to me. I don't understand where you're coming from here at all.

I'm scumreading you mostly using PoE. Because I'm finding other players here less likely to be scum.
Also you were defending Pasch. Yes I know I was defending him to. But I played terribly overall D1 (townreading both the scum flips) and I doubt you could play as much terribly as me (you have more experience after all).

A few things:

1) PoE is a terrible technique. I tried to use it in a game where we were 7-1 up, iirc, and we lost. Granted, the game was bastard - but if you're lynching on PoE odds are it's a town lynch.
2)

Defending Pasch does not make me scum.

Fucking seriously. There is this huge problem in the thread where we are presuming everyone on the Pasch wagon is town. I was there at deadline, ready to hammer. That would have put me on the wagon. Would it have magically made me town? Fuck to the no.

I can show you meta where I bus my scumbuddies d1 - it doesn't mean shit.

3) I had told you, I had barely read through the thread as I had school. You can't expect me to magically pick out scum with a detached gameplay (even at the best of times, my scumdar can be off.)

I think that's just you - but nice job sidestepping the fact that I was not mean until you began to flaunt your arrogance.

Well, to pick something out at random, this directed at Shinobi was completely unwarranted:

What's so funny, little man

In fact, why'd you say that at all? Serious question.

Are you really saying that "little man" is an insult? Really? It's a friendly joke. If I want to insult someone, it'll be pretty clear.

Actually, I don't see why this makes me scum - I had history of suspecting davesaz, I asked for the Pasch case, no Pasch case was given, so I voted dave. I would love if you pointed out the scum agenda in this. I can't see it - clearly you, though, can.

It wouldn't have been all that hard to find #728 if you'd been reading the thread.
Are you seriously saying that you think opposing a lynch on scum does not fit scum agenda?

Are you seriously saying TSO, as town, has only ever pushed scum wagons and never defended scum unknowingly? Because that's what you seem to be going for.

Your argument is based solely on these:

1) TSO, as scum, cannot bus.
2) TSO, as town, would have known who scum were.

Both are obviously false.

[T S O]

Defending myself is so goddamn boring and isn't helping me find out who the last scum is.

Aquanim, why isn't davesaz scum? You never gave an actual reason for it.

[T S O]

@TSO

Your town flip will help town figuring out that your posts and reads were coming from town perspective. And there are 7 other townies besides you, so it is pretty high chance mislynching anyway. Why being so concerned about specifically your mislynch?

For me it's pretty clear: town's goal is to find scum, scum's goal is to survive. Being overly concerned about own survival is scummy and no one will ever make me thinking otherwise.

And no, being on the Pasch's wagon does not make one town.
More specifically, personally I'm suspecting Mala because her reason for jumping a wagon was BS (well, in fact she even didn't have one). She confirmed it was a policy lynch and that was the answer I was looking for (scum was more likely to make up some fake reason imo), but this does not make her auto-town.

Okay, fair enough - will we lynch you? This logic also applies to you, so I think it's only fair.

[T S O]

Are you seriously saying TSO, as town, has only ever pushed scum wagons and never defended scum unknowingly? Because that's what you seem to be going for.

Your argument is based solely on these:

1) TSO, as scum, cannot bus.
2) TSO, as town, would have known who scum were.

Both are obviously false.

Not certainly, but it's a balance of probabilities. Have you tried to shut down a scum lynch more often as town or as scum?

I don't have to prove absolutely that you're scum to have a reasonable case, and it's absurd that you claim I would.

I really don't see the point in discussing this with you any further.

Of course you don't have to prove absolutely I'm scum - what you do have to is show there's a reasonable chance I am, which you haven't done yet at all.

Things you've done so far re: TSO-scum:

1) Give reasoning such as "tried to push davesaz, must be scum"
2) Weirdly slander my name by claiming I am a cunt to everyone
3) Not push Mala/Bulba/Xay to develop their mutual meta townread on me

Why would this entice anyone to vote me?

[T S O]

@TSO

If my flip will somehow help to find the last scum - I'm all for it.
I doubt so, however. I performed terrible D1 and I think there won't be any useful information in my flip.
It's up to others to decide however.

This is a ridiculous answer.

My townread on you is dead and in the grave after this charade, where your read on me keeps magically fluctuating with nothing to facilitate the change. I'm feeling tired as shit, but in a bit, I'm actually going to make a post on it.

@TSO: How common is it on this site for one of the scum to be really active and act pro-town? There was a scumtell I used on a previous site which I call "scum leading town" where scum would try to drive the conversation by pushing others, sometimes even to vote people the scum themselves were not voting. I used this tell to correctly scum read our host BBT in a newbie game, but failed to push it through.

There is someone here to whom this scumtell might apply, but using it in this game would be a mountain of work because I haven't been keeping track of it in the flow. Do you think it's worth the effort to check, or is that a really uncommon thing here?

Er, this is a difficult question to answer.

Yeah. That does happen here, if the scum player's good enough. The problem is that town players here can also be good enough to do it.

Here is a game where I was scum and Shinobi was town. I acted really pro-town d1, hardbussed my scumbuddy, and had maximal towncred ...before the game got abandoned for a mod error. Is that what you mean?

I can't say whether it's worth it or not right now because I'm not completely sure if we're discussing the same thing and I don't know who you suspect is doing it here yet.

Coincidentally, that game is also a great showcase that 1) I can hardbus and 2) people on the scumwagon aren't any way confirmed town.

[T S O]

dave's move back from me makes me feel slightly more uncomfortable about lynching him. shit.

[T S O]

There's fun observation:
All the votes TSO made were OMGUS votes.

Push this and see where you go with it, please.

[T S O]

Half the town is lurking and sinking into apathy - come on, you lot.

[T S O]

Isn't it a common meta at this forum to policy lynch for the information sake?

Anyway, I still don't see anyone who is spending his last hours of life to self-defend instead of helping the town with catching the scum. Seems we won't agree on this matter.

What do you think about #1221 ?

Hey, you just mentioned meta! Good idea.

Go and find me some games where I, as town, rolled over and took my lynch like a good townie. Go on. You're pushing it as a scumtell, so let's see you back it up further.

[T S O]

Have you ever considered the problem is you, Netherspite, and your method of thinking? Because you probably should.

[T S O]

Shinobi, who are you scumreading?

[T S O]

Yes, I'm clearly focusing only on self-defense by asking Shinobi who he's scumreading.

When you blatantly don't read the game, your credibility gets shot in the foot. Helpful hint from your pal TSO.

[T S O]

Ribbing you is too much fun, though, so I'll stop for now.

Any updates on that OMGUS argument? Saying it exists and then not producing it would be an actual scumtell (unlike some of yours).

[T S O]

No, I don't think you understand what I am saying. I am not asking you to randomly drop the point for no reason, I am saying I don't believe you and I'm asking you to present the OMGUS case here.

[T S O]

Pasch was clearly a sinking ship to his scumpartners - I have shown that I can and do bus scumbuddies going down. No idea where this is going.

@Nether - I'm done responding. Your reasons to scumread me are completely illogical (defending yourself is scum!!!) and this OMGUS nonsense you won't back up is the final straw. Ugh.

[T S O]

With one scum left I'm not particularly motivated to hunt any more, and since I don't have much time today, I'll podge and get back to this another time. Hope yall are cool widdat

I'm not - I have tried to explain logic to these people and they don't get it.

[T S O]

I think it's very appropriate for you as well.

It's rather pathetic that you want to lynch me over a personal vendetta, but you couldn't expect much better.

[T S O]

I suggest to at least discuss things happened during D1 to share some extra information at D2 in case any of us active will die at night.

TSO and Mala are useless lurky lurksacks who can hang unless they redeem themselves.

Oh look, it's the first stone.

[T S O]

Again, I think you've mistaken me for yourself. I have reasons based on your interaction with other people and lynches why I thought you were scum; wasn't your entire case on me crying over how mean I was?

My entire case on you is that you have literally nothing which I haven't addressed clearly and now, instead of continuing to lose the debate, you're throwing potshots and sideline supporting my wagon?

Please, no more misreps.

[T S O]

that's the funniest thing I've heard all day

with interactions like these:

Can you point out the gaping flaws so I may improve my scumgame? Please?

I have no interest in improving your scum game.

which so clearly show you losing the argument, why even waste my time with you?

[T S O]

For fuck's sake Mala come on, I need you in here

[T S O]

Because some of the stuff he is pushing is so maniacally idiotic I actually don't think it's alignment relevant. Like, this nonsense about accepting your death. I don't get it.

His stuff regarding my votes being OMGUS, etc. however is quite scummy.

I'm still distracted by Aqua and dave as well, and I need to figure out which of the three I want dead today.

[T S O]

Actually, no, never mind - I'd forgot that he managed to justify saving his own skin with that "accept-your-death" shite. Scratch that.

Point remains, Aqua and dave need sorting.

[T S O]

It's entirely possible I want Aquanim dead just because I do not like him. not sure.

[T S O]

Would you class my vote on Spitfire as an OMGUS vote?

[T S O]

It is, but it's stupid.

[T S O]

I tried to read this game and could not last night - I guarantee I will do it today.

[T S O]

No-one hammers until I do this - we have 7 damn days left.

[T S O]

Nether I'm only skimming this and some of your responses make no sense at all.

Like, really, randomly telling us you will not defend your scumpartner in future games? The only reason you would have magically hit on this idea is if you're scum here who has messed up the tactic.

[T S O]

Why doesn't your post look like a reaction test?

[T S O]

It would be an astonishing coincidence if this magical reaction test of yours, as town, just so happened to move from the scum PR to the scum Goon, right?

[T S O]

Can people who are town reading TSO refresh my memory on why? We've been pushing Nether for moving from Pasch to Luca, but doing nothing about TSO who was also doing everything in his power to save Pasch and wasn't aiming at someone who flipped scum. Isn't it more likely for scum TSO to aim at town than for scum Nether to aim at fellow scum?

I was busy pushing the third scum?

[T S O]

I think it's because your case was conclusively proved wrong/you were conclusively proved a fool.

[T S O]

They're usually right.

[T S O]

I did.

[T S O]

-Avoiding Pasch wagon

Why is this a reason for being scum? Just summarise it.

-Halfhearted push on me (town is a much more attractive target than your other buddy)

My push on you ...wasn't particularly halfhearted, it reflected the fact I was busy as exams were on during at that time. I made that information public - you know that - why are you pushing it as a scumtell again?

-General lack of scum hunting otherwise

Generalised bull like this will get you nowhere but the noose - I am sure you would like to tell me that you have been scumhunting night and day while I lie in the scum parlour with hookers and wine, but it's simply not true.

[T S O]

oh my god your case is so BAD but I still have to respond to it

I'll do it in a bit - you can continue misintepreting Xayzeck's posts til then

[T S O]

I wouldn't bother arguing with him, Dave; there are people in this game who want to lynch TSO and those who don't, and I doubt you'll shift anyone from one camp to the other.

In other news,
VOTE: Acryon
I think I like this more than Nether today.

I still think the play today is a combination of Lynch/Vig/Role-check/JK on me/TSO/Nether/Shinobi. I think it is so much much better than us not discussing it, which it seems no one is interested in doing for some reason. This way, we clear/kill literally every person with suspicion on them. I obviously prefer not being lynched, and I would think me bringing up a plan that would almost 100% make me lose if I am scum would be enough to make me one of the non-lethal targets, but either way I think this plan needs to happen. Otherwise we risk double-stacking or leaving it up to the bias of the PRs.

Assuming we're not PR's ...?

[T S O]

There are enough PR's that they'll close it out - they have last night's results too.

[T S O]

My vote is very clearly on you, dave.

[T S O]

-Avoiding Pasch wagon

Why is this a reason for being scum? Just summarise it.

-Halfhearted push on me (town is a much more attractive target than your other buddy)

My push on you ...wasn't particularly halfhearted, it reflected the fact I was busy as exams were on during at that time. I made that information public - you know that - why are you pushing it as a scumtell again?

-General lack of scum hunting otherwise

Generalised bull like this will get you nowhere but the noose - I am sure you would like to tell me that you have been scumhunting night and day while I lie in the scum parlour with hookers and wine, but it's simply not true.

1. Distancing, of course. How hard can that be to figure out?

2. And after exams finished? You could have been digging up all the scummy things I've done and trying to convince others. Unless, of course, you can't find anything I've done that was actually scummy.

3. I'm pretty sure you're not doing

that

. But are you even looking at what other people have been doing? Suppose it's not me, who else might be scum? Compare how I have 3 people who might be scum, I'm digging at the one I think is more likely to be scum but also pursuing other angles. And I have reasons to town read the people I'm not interested in lynching today, and they're more than just meta. You're trying to say I'm not scum hunting?

Let's break this down.

1. Being wrong on Paschendale is not a scumtell. You will get nowhere trying to push that it is. I was wrong on Pasch. I hadn't read the game - I had every right to be wrong. Even if I -had- read the game, I might still have thought he was town. I didn't claim I was 100% sure of Pasch being town - I asked for a Pasch case - I didn't get one.

Fact: this is not a scumtell - this is a accusation which is completely independent of my alignment.

2. Your bullshit attack on me -is- a scumtell, actually - but while we're here, let's discuss Paschendale backing you to the hilt for no reason.

Spoiler: Pasch protecting dave

I don't understand the votes on Davesaz. Someone wanna talk about that and make a solid case there?

What really has me concerned is that I have yet to see any good explanation of the Dave wagon, but every time I ask for clarification of the case on him, it's simply ignored.

Why Dave? I've found the cases on him so far very thin. What would you cite as evidence against him?

Anyone else find it fishy that Acryon is v/la until exactly after the deadline is over? He's basically parked on this unfounded Dave wagon that no one will defend.

He tried to build a scumread on me out of RVS joking, he never supported his vote on Dave (a case that no one has actually explained yet.

Dave is the best wagon today. When I pushed him, there was a general non-response. That makes me feel better about doing so.

Can you please explain why? I really have no idea why anyone suspects him.

The only ones I absolutely wouldn't lynch are Nether, TSO, and possibly Dave because he looks like the target of scum attacks since still nobody will explain why they're scumreading him. He's null at worst.

3. This is a joke - the

only

thing you have done today is lurk - push my mislynch - lurk - push my mislynch. Your "interactions" with other people go "Oh, hey, please ignore your meta read on TSO and vote him because ???". I mean, if this thing you're quoting is what you expect to convince people with, your scumplay needs a lot of work.

[T S O]

Then you have that absolute goon Aquanim randomly sniping at me while not really taking many stances against me after he realised his grudge lynch isn't convincing anyone. He is townreading you because ...he's never actually told us why he's townreading you, actually, but never mind that.

[T S O]

Bulba, Mala, Xayz, can you guys PLEASE be more active because this game is so easy to close out but I can't do it with you three prod dodging.

[T S O]

So, you won't justify your townread on dave. Got it.

[T S O]

No, your "not until he gets lynched" is a ploy where you don't actually have to do it until it doesn't matter.

[T S O]

Why do you feel you're above giving reads when asked for them?

[T S O]

You believe you're town, therefore you don't have to do town things.

This is a really great attitude - I think I'll adopt it.

[T S O]

I want this guy, but I will hammer this other guy.

Is this really the peak of you interacting people? That you'll hammer? Wow!

[T S O]

VOTE: Acryon
If we're not going to lynch Nether or TSO, then might as well see if my other scum read is lynchable.

So you literally support any wagon which has a chance of saving your scummy ass.

Why aren't you being quicklynched ugh

[T S O]

Dave, why do you support acryon?

[T S O]

How about no?

I asked you for your reasons for supporting acryon - deflecting isn't an acceptable answer.

[T S O]

Because dave has just fucking voted acryon?

[T S O]

I am trying to contemplate whether you have a disorder which prevents you from understanding basic concepts, or you're deliberately trying to do so.

I really hope it's the latter, but I actually think it could be the former.

[T S O]

Fine.

I still think dave is a likelier bet for scum, but I'm not going to get him today.

Unvote
Vote: Netherspite

[T S O]

let's be honest, you're going to do it at some stage anyway

[T S O]

@TSO: How common is it on this site for one of the scum to be really active and act pro-town? There was a scumtell I used on a previous site which I call "scum leading town" where scum would try to drive the conversation by pushing others, sometimes even to vote people the scum themselves were not voting. I used this tell to correctly scum read our host BBT in a newbie game, but failed to push it through.

There is someone here to whom this scumtell might apply, but using it in this game would be a mountain of work because I haven't been keeping track of it in the flow. Do you think it's worth the effort to check, or is that a really uncommon thing here?

Hey, dave, remember when you said this?

[T S O]

can we just massclaim and end it, the game's locked down

[T S O]

between them the rc and jk should have enough clears to be able to manipulate the set-up with policy vigs to win

[T S O]

because the game's over, Xay.

[T S O]

8 people, 3 PR's
5 scum people left
Within 2 nights we're bound to have 2 clears from RC/JK combined
From there, lynch and JK/Vig remaining 2

[T S O]

I asked for a massclaim because the game was over no matter what and my kill being whatever'd was the last straw.

I don't think I particularly called Luca town, my Pasch push was just because I didn't have time.

Fuck this set-up, 0/2.

[T S O]

vote: tso

[T S O]

Sorry to whoever thought I was playing against my win condition, but the stress this game would entail just wasn't worth surviving one more day and then dying.

[T S O]

In relation to Aquanim or whoever complaining about meta - being able to fake your towngame, even if your towngame can look scummy, is good scumplay. My play here was p similar to my play as town so I don't blame the triad for getting it wrong.

[T S O]

I tried to shoot Aquanim last night - I'll link the scum QT but the third last post is me OBSESSING ABOUT XAYZECK BEING A PR JESUS so that's annoying.

[T S O]

Post #25: I kinda want to shoot Xayzeck
Post #26: THIS IS WHERE YOU NEED A SCUMPARTNER'S IMPUT BUT TOWN MURDERED ALL MINE
Post #27: BBT locks thread.

I'm out, wp town, scum not so much

[T S O]

I could maybe have derped through getting dave or acryon mislynched today but I needed a PR dead last night to make winning possible.

[T S O]

Actually, Xayzeck missing the first investigation is pretty sickening for me.

[T S O]

It was a general sense thing - I didn't think acryon/Bulba were PR's, for example, but I did think you/Mala/Aquanim could be.

[T S O]

...sigh

[T S O]

This game was just one bit of bad news after another - I woke up hoping desperately for a RC/JK or even both death and saw no kills.

[T S O]

thanks, acryon, still sucks tho

[T S O]

I don't think you did that bad TSO

considering you still made it through a day after losing your buddies, and lost to investigations

don't feel too down

well neither do I, really, but I don't like losing.

The whole dynamic of the game changes when you're the only scum alive on d2 - it's less you leading the town along and more the town being hungry wolves constantly clicking at your heels.

[T S O]

I think the Aquanim shot was a decent one if it had worked. I don't know how far I could have got if this was mountainous - I'd say decently far.

[T S O]

Yeah.

I said this in the Scum PT too - but school -did- hinder me there. I would honestly probably have bussed Pasch - there was a seat at the end if I'd had the inclination too. My exams were on during the days of Pasch being ran up and I just pushed dave instead because I was kinda rushing.

[T S O]

My two scumpartners basically both got nailed d1.

I have no idea who the vig is. I was thinking Bulba could be - but I needed the vig alive, or at any rate, either RC/JK down last night.

[T S O]

They're both good guys, though, sometimes you just get rolled as scum.

[T S O]

I said in a message to BBT clever townplay was for Vig to not kill, though no-one suggested it, so props to whoever the Vig was for doing so.

[T S O]

Yeah.

I said this in the Scum PT too - but school -did- hinder me there. I would honestly probably have bussed Pasch - there was a seat at the end if I'd had the inclination too. My exams were on during the days of Pasch being ran up and I just pushed dave instead because I was kinda rushing.

The answer is to stop going to school and dedicate your life to mafia.

It's the only sensible choice here.

I've been debating it for a while - but I think this was the final straw.

Yeah.

I said this in the Scum PT too - but school -did- hinder me there. I would honestly probably have bussed Pasch - there was a seat at the end if I'd had the inclination too. My exams were on during the days of Pasch being ran up and I just pushed dave instead because I was kinda rushing.

The answer is to stop going to school and dedicate your life to mafia.

It's the only sensible choice here.

Mafia full time doesn't sound very appealing tbh

I'm sponsored by Red Bull, though.

[T S O]

gg y'all

[T S O]

Yeah. It wasn't so much that I wouldn't bus, it was that I didn't have time to organically do it.

Also, in this set-up, bussing PR's is death.

[T S O]

(unless you can do it really well, which still requires time)