Open 589: Duck Duck Goose (Game Over: Somebody Won)

[Honey bee]

VOTE: taly wagon the newbie!

[Honey bee]

Thank you very much LlamaFluff, and welcome Storyteller.

VOTE: taly wagon the newbie!

Didn't think I'd become this popular with the experienced so quickly. :wink: Do you have any reasons for your vote?

Because why not :3c

[Honey bee]

Someone yell at me if I don't look at this game by the end of today.

[Honey bee]

ok I'm half asleep and this game is getting really wally so I'm just going to blab a bit where my head is at and then get back here when I've digested this game more.

Chirivi wagon is not my to my taste. 52 is just fluff but it's really blunt and honest reaction. Meta'd them, their play doesn't seem ooc for their town or scum game. I don't see their self meta case but ok. Taly vote is... nonsense. There's plenty worse on that wagon and taly is just going through ridiculous lengths to thinking about this game to be a part of an act.
-- Nethersprite is pinging me the most, the application of his questions towards other players while being content to threaten his vote rather than discover their alignment sucks. Also many of those questions feel like busy work to me.
--I think davesaz and vettrock were pinging me but it may have been just gut so someone remind me later to flesh these two reads out.
--everyone else I haven't looked hard enough to have a distinct feeling about.

also VOTE: nethersprite for now. I left my vote on you taly because you really haven't been in any danger the times I briefly checked the thread and I've only just now found someone I'm comfortable serious voting.

[Honey bee]

Please do me a favor and go through

vettrock

and

davesaz

posts and then give some read on them not based on your gut.
I'm curious.
?

Ok i didn't need a reminder 2 posts later. I guess at this point i would say they are sidelining but theres something more to it. Like how davesaz is asking for reads from someone who has made their position clear but he hasn't made an effort to clearly state his own. Vettrock just hasn't commented enough for my liking.

HELLO HONEY BEE. There, that should do. :D
Nice to be playing with you again.

-- Nethersprite is pinging me the most, the application of his questions towards other players while being content to threaten his vote rather than discover their alignment sucks. Also many of those questions feel like busy work to me.

This is interesting and the opposite of what I've got at the moment. Maybe we can talk about this over the next couple of days? He seems pretty genuine to me but there's not a huge amount of analysis or theory in that.

Hiiii talahhh!

Im on mobile so I cant quote it for you but like compare his interactions wih them to anyone else. He seems pretty content to lynch them already while making effort to get info from anyone else. I dont buy that his inital read was that strong or really evolved naturally as more players joined on.

[Honey bee]

Define useful. Do you think their interaction and suspicion of the wagon isn't advancing their own reads? Because they're at least taking a stance with some reasoning which I think is useful enough.

[Honey bee]

They think their wagon is easy and they've been questioning the people who were following it. post 115 I liked because thats one of the posts that pinged me and I also doubted that they were acting like off guard scum and I liked post 119 because I didn't feel dodgy's reason was entirely accurate on chrivi. Granted none of this is enough for me to give a townread on them but fluff and abrasiveness isn't alignment indicative to me and thats what the majority of this wagon feels like.

[Honey bee]

Not intially tho? You pretty clearly stated that they were overreacting scum.

Do you think the posts i just quoted were just fake reasoning hiding omgus? If so why?

[Honey bee]

They weren't hiding OMGUS, they rather had OMGUS written all over them.

My initial vote intention was to create some pressure. And it seems that I chosen a right direction to put that pressure to.

Eh?

you said they're doing nothing but omgus, and i provided posts which i thought were growing suspicions instead of "oh my gah u suck". So you must have an opinion on how those suspicions are bad scum logic hiding OMGUS, right..?

Like how davesaz is asking for reads from someone who has made their position clear but he hasn't made an effort to clearly state his own.

Hmm, I didn't think that any of the people I asked had stated reads, per se.

I use this information to do some of my reads. I usually don't state reads till I have them.

Well, ok that's true. But how do you expect to pull reads out of someone if you can't make them yourself? I know you said you're quiet early game but I kinda expected you to put your foot down somewhere.

[Honey bee]

Okay, may be the first of those posts isn't directly OMGUS post, but point at single useful bit of information there?
The first sentence in the first quote I already addressed and explained why it is either misinterpreting or misrepresenting.
The second sentence in the first quote is basically fluff because yeah, you can spend 10 hours writing a post but no one really does that. What's the point in mentioning it?

The second post is basically claiming that their OMGUS vote is better than the vote on them.
So basically it is just an attempt to justify the OMGUS vote made earlier.

I think there point is that it doesn't really make sense to suggest it was an off the cuff reaction since anyone is allowed to think about how they are reacting beforehand. And I wouldn't describe their taly vote as omgus either but I don't think it was good reasoning either (seeing how he's a newer player and not really knowledgeable about what scum and town looks like). Though now I'm getting the impression a lot of people in this game don't like votes unless they're formatted into neat little cases so my vote isn't stuck to you yet.

Im on mobile so I cant quote it for you but like compare his interactions wih them to anyone else. He seems pretty content to lynch them already while making effort to get info from anyone else. I dont buy that his inital read was that strong or really evolved naturally as more players joined on.

What dont you buy about it?
this doesnt really fit with my impression of nether atm

The reason he initially voted them was weak and I didn't see any attempt to figure out chirvi's alignment. So I felt like his taunting of them wasn't a part of an evolved read but instead an excuse to keep pushing a grown wagon.

What is your impression of nether then? You like his 104, but I honestly don't see how this post could encourage chimvi to post anything useful if they're town.

I'm liking Honey Bee. Not so sure if I agree with her (?) vote on Nethersprite though, but I do think the push looks pretty townie.

Actually, @Honey Bee, what is the reason for your push on Nethersprite?

His posts pinged me the most, and most of the discussion revolved around the hydra so I wanted to look somewhere else. I'd be happier with his posts if he didn't look so comfortable with his vote this early.

[Honey bee]

You haven't done anything to bother me yet. you're coming across as deeply involved in your thought process and I don't think that's something you've learned to fake yet.

Talah.. umm.. I'm going to wait there :) Nothing bothersome either, but I could see talah as competent scum and I have to check my biases before townreading them.

[Honey bee]

Well I can't fault that he's content to lynch ChriVi because I don't have a better candidate if tomorrow was deadline. He is continuing to ask them questions which looks like a decent form of pressure - ie they're not going to lurk their wagon off. I'll note that his first post was a vote on ChriVi so there was no real need for the read to evolve, at least not in order to change the vote. I'm not really understanding the ping.

Spoiler:

For the first question I haven't seen a reason to change it yet. Aggressiveness isn't necessarily alignment indicative.

ChriVi

is the only wagon so far. I do think anytime someone says "my meta shows this, so I must be town" It pretty much means you can ignore that part of their meta since their self-awareness makes it easier for them to manipulate it. It doesn't mean they aren't town, it just means that you can't use that to judge if they are town or not.

Exactly this.

@ChriVi

You don't simply say "town-me doing that so I'm town, vote my voters".
In fact, your over-reaction to having a wagon early in the D1 makes me thinking we're caught a scum off-guard.

If you want me to change my opinion you better start contributing and stop being annoying.

im liking taly for town at this point

im liking nether for town as well at this point.

Mind elaborating on why exactly do you like us for town?

You just agreed with vettrock, who said it isn't alignment indicative... And then you tell me that me over-reacting to a wagon D1 makes me scum caught "off-guard"?

I agree with him that saying "check my meta, this is how I play when town" completely nullifies towniness of the playstyle that was coming from town in your meta.
Don't say you didn't understand that.

^ Can I lynch you now, scum?

But he's town.

Just jump on the scum wagon, newbie

Don't worry your scumbuds will yell at you in your QT tonight for being so obvious and whatnot but that's okay I'm going to make sure Taly dies first <3

I doubt you'll NK

Taly

because we'll lynch you today.

Why is my vote 'bad'? It's better than yours. Mine is actually because I think someone is scummily jumping on a D1 easy-wagon to free-lynch-ville, whereas your vote is "Uh, uh, their vote is bad and um, their response is bad! Yeah! I'm gonna jump on the wagon!"

I

honestly

think this is actually a newbie-fuckup trying to fit in onto the biggest wagon whether than necessarily a scum fuckup :igmeou:

Provide a single reason to consider you being town and people will unvote you.
It's just that simple.

I guess this don't look like productive pressure to me. And deadline isn't tomorrow so there isn't any urgency to lynch really.

@nether: Again, I think it's more indicative of their personality than anything. but I understand you may be thinking differently.

I think I brought up the fact that he/she didn't want to leave RVS as my reason for being okay with him being lynched today.

them*

Lolwat? Where did I say I didn't want to leave RVS? Please quote me you misrepping fuck kthx.

VOTE: Kaboose
Only scum mis-reps.

He's talking about njac, which dav asked about in the post before that one.

I liked dav's read post. I'll sort a bit of the other walls later because I'm worn out.

[Honey bee]

I have to prodge, as I am really busy currently. I'll be back by tomorrow (i hope).

[Honey bee]

I am liking the njac wagon, although he's lurky and it's normally something I don't go for there's a lot in his posts that's giving me pause. His questioning feels off and I'm wondering why he isn't voting chrivi now. But I haven't read too in depth and idk how many are on his wagon now.

I don't really have the driving force to push nether right now, and his latest posts don't seem that bad. But I wanna know why he thinks scum wouldn't be ok with passivity towards the njac wagon. I guess I can imagine a lot of scenarios where scum wouldn't want to stick out their neck for a lurker, or would just bus to help their own necks, so I kinda think that vca is premature at this stage.

I can't say I have very strong opinions yet as I often have trouble putting much together D1. Especially D1 I think it is easier to sort people towards the town side that really identify scum. There are times when scum slip up, but most of the time town says something that is blown out of porportion and is lynched for it.

Which people are you sorting towards the town side and why?

[Honey bee]

oh and *old person voice* one more thing...

I understand how being a jerk doesn't mean one is town or scum. However, being a jerk surely isn't beneficial to town. So wouldn't it benefit us as town to eliminate someone not being beneficial to town?

You voted njac 2 posts before this, and it seems view the chrivi lynch as a bit more than just utility from looking at your iso. So why did you switch?

[Honey bee]

Vote count analysis, I think it's when you're just observing things by votes? That's what I mean at least.

Ehh.. I'll place my vote there later if I think the pressure will be useful. I'm in the same boat about my reads just aren't that strong right now.

[Honey bee]

hi piss, hi everyone else. I still exist and am following, I just need reminders to post sometimes.

First thing: Talah, um.. I'm not sure what you're getting at with the "we" questioning. Do you think taly is trying to push this lynch as an apathy lynch? I think a lot of people use we to talk about the overall town, and the context just seems to be about what info "we" have available. I'm not sure why the word choice bothers you, and maybe I can see why the statement bothers you but it's coming across as just frustration rather than scum pushing apathy.

I wanted to pressure vettrock more but he's not here :^l I'll look back a bit more and see if I can find a useful place for my vote.

[Honey bee]

@Kaboose

Why exactly does he look like a scum for you? Besides him lurking and stuff.
Can you post your case on him?

His current play has left tons to be desired, but I'm starting to feel I'm picking on an innactive townie instead of a lurking scum... Really on D1 I like to target useless people that I don't want around on D2. A talking scum can be caught quicker than a quiet one. And a talking town person to me appears to be working things out to themselves. I like activity. Because activity exposes the most information.

Where do you draw the line in your mind between inactive town and scum? Because in the previous post you seem way more confident about this lynch.

The thing about ploben doesn't bother me, newer players I think tend to start getting scared about personalities are just coordinated acts or not.

idk I'll probably wait for piss to post to see if he improves the dodgy slot or not :P it kinda sux but when your scum reads start disappearing you just have to wait it out.

I may make one more post because something about odd feels wrong but it may be my imagination or me just being bad.

[Honey bee]

You were paranoid about chrivi's abrasive personality was a part of an act to be townie to hide their scumminess. It's wifom but I see it in newer players often so it's null to me.

I couldn't remember what pinged about odd so I'll forget about it for now.

[Honey bee]

VOTE: kaboose hi!

[Honey bee]

Do you think you're too good for me or sumthin?

[Honey bee]

I voted kaboose because I asked him questions twice and he ignored them. It wasn't a reaction test lol.

But what did I do that chrivi did? Because I don't think you ever said they did anything scummy.

[Honey bee]

@Honey bee

Where did you ask him questions?
I can find only one question to

Kaboose

in your ISO and honestly I already forgot you asked it. May be he did forget too?

maybe? one was on the page before this one.

I understand how being a jerk doesn't mean one is town or scum. However, being a jerk surely isn't beneficial to town. So wouldn't it benefit us as town to eliminate someone not being beneficial to town?

You voted njac 2 posts before this, and it seems view the chrivi lynch as a bit more than just utility from looking at your iso. So why did you switch?

@Kaboose

Why exactly does he look like a scum for you? Besides him lurking and stuff.
Can you post your case on him?

His current play has left tons to be desired, but I'm starting to feel I'm picking on an innactive townie instead of a lurking scum... Really on D1 I like to target useless people that I don't want around on D2. A talking scum can be caught quicker than a quiet one. And a talking town person to me appears to be working things out to themselves. I like activity. Because activity exposes the most information.

Where do you draw the line in your mind between inactive town and scum? Because in the previous post you seem way more confident about this lynch.

But now I want to talk about vettrock:

The naked vote for ploben with just "discuss". I was looking at your vote for kaboose the same.

Ok:
1. You never called that scummy. So why are you trying to compare me to a wagon you didn't support?
2. Why is a naked vote starting a wagon scummy? I just said I had a reason and you weren't supporting any previous wagons anyway so how is a new wagon bad.
3. Chrivi has more content than me? So? I'm contributing, is me not having as much as chrivi alignment indicative? And I honestly question that you think chrivi has significantly more analysis than me.

[Honey bee]

Soo... what is the rationale for this vote again? A naked vote is suddenly worth a vote now? Are you really expecting me to be voting and pushing as erratically as they are? If we are going by that criteria, you have waaay less content than me, since this the first time you've actually pushed someone with a scum read.

[Honey bee]

-.-

Kaboose: why did you think njac could be innactive town? and are you voting him strictly based on utility so that if he's replaced you're going to reevalutate the slot's usefulness, or are you scum reading that slot at this point?

I like the vote on vettrock and I'll probably move mine because I'm sure if I want this kaboose wagon.

[Honey bee]

Pisskop is voting against me due to me being non-committal. This is a legitimate concern. Honey Bee then says that she was considering jumping on my wagon as well. I consider that comment by Honey Bee to be either opportunistic or sheep. My vote is staying there for now.

Excuse me? Have you read my posts? You know you've been pinging me for a long time, and I've already stated my problems with your vote. Now you are just misrepping me now that someone else is getting pinged by you too.

VOTE: vettrock

And yeah, I only voted kaboose for him to notice me. It didn't work, but the responses to the pressure he's getting now hasn't bothered me.

[Honey bee]

VOTE: oddmusic

Now the oddmusic wagon is bigger. Lovely.

They're the same with you on them. Why do you prefer odd now?

Also you should look at vett and switch to that one instead ^-^

[Honey bee]

Whichever I vote is bigger right now. And I like odd for scum better thank Kaboose partially because I was unsure about him (but thought he was a good candidate) when I voted him, and then the dave and nether show turned up to "assist" with thin reasoning off the back of it.

oddmusic I've been wary of for a bit and he owes me the answer to a question. Also I'm liking ChriVi and ploben for town.

I'm not really following. You're suspicious of odd because he might have some strange relation with taly and for reading dav as town?

[Honey bee]

Kaboose I thought more town because of the random push.

Actually your question seems weird, can you tell me how you cross-linked the Kaboose topic and the oddmusic topic?

Well, you're the one who shifted the leading lynch from kaboose to odd. I went through your iso and I couldn't find anything clearly stating that so I wondered why.

[Honey bee]

unpack your odd read too, because it feels kinda exaggerated and I don't really buy that's more applicable to odd than vett.

[Honey bee]

I can see where

dave

and

GREYICE

are coming from with Taly. It is often a good strategy as scum to post a lot of wordy posts to give the appearance of scum hunting. Given that it is his first game, I'm not sure that is what he is doing, but he seems to have more knowledge of the dynamics of the game than most newbies.

I also see and agree with the whiteknighting that

Nethersprite

seems to be doing with Taly. I think it would be too obvious to be doing to your scum partner, so I would say at least one of the two is town, but I can see one scum possibly in there.

I'm still thinking town for Kaboose, just because the reasoning behind the wagon seemed weak (along with the other two previous wagons)

I'm bacpedaling on Honey Bee as my reasoning was flawed because I didn't go back far enough to see her posts on Kaboose, so it seemed more out of place that it actually was.

I mean this is the most go with the flow thing ever, not only echoing things said in the thread, but redacting his read on me even though he shifted it to me being opportunistic scum reading him. After I put a vote on him and accused him of misrepping me, he forgets about this and excuses his unvote for being wrong about his original reason in order to avoid backtracking through that.

Odd continues to look just like a noob and although his content isn't particularly engaging to me, I can tell he has individual thoughts as well (ex 511's commentary and following posts are eager to sort an argument hardly touched yet). A lot of the "useless content" and "fake readslist" are softer on noobs who don't know what to pick up on but feel obligated to provide content anyways. So I can't really support a wagon that could be applied to other noobs (even in this game) without much success on hitting scum.

So yeah let's vote vett.

[Honey bee]

Then why did you attack me for this?

Pisskop is voting against me due to me being non-committal. This is a legitimate concern. Honey Bee then says that she was considering jumping on my wagon as well. I consider that comment by Honey Bee to be either opportunistic or sheep. My vote is staying there for now.

Even if I was sheeping or just joining on, how is that not applicable to your nether read just now?

And explain your reads a bit more. It's really unclear to me what you value as scummy and don't. You think theres scum between taly and nether, but you think taly is less scummy than kaboose (552 ???). and you're interested in the oddmusic wagon, is there a reason for odd over kaboose other than odd is the bigger wagon?

[Honey bee]

oh, and you linked ploben to the whiteknighting thing as well.

Why are you reading nether as scum then? is ploben as scummy as nether? Why are you scumreading someone for not explaining your reads when I feel like I have to be a mind reader to figure out yours?

[Honey bee]

oh, and you linked ploben to the whiteknighting thing as well.

Why are you reading nether as scum then? is ploben as scummy as nether? Why are you scumreading someone for not explaining

their

reads when I feel like I have to be a mind reader to figure out yours?

edit by double posting.

[Honey bee]

His read's list is bad enough tho, without whatever he's talking about. A spontaneous wagon on kaboose probably isn't going to happen with less than 24 hours so you should consider joining us.

[Honey bee]

His read's list is bad enough tho, without whatever

greyice

is talking about. A spontaneous wagon on kaboose probably isn't going to happen with less than 24 hours so you should consider joining us.

I should probably proofread my posts >.<

[Honey bee]

This is true. So I assume that odd is in that small group too?

[Honey bee]

Ploben, I'm town.

Talah just wants the hot lynch to happen, doesn't matter who it is.

So ergo, quit thinking I'm scum and start thinking Talah is.

Do you think this helps scum more than just sticking to one lynch?

This tell fits more of a derailing strategy and I don't think that's a particularly good reason unless there's something they want to detract from.

[Honey bee]

Because I can see how you push your stronger scumreads to get a lynch, but I can't see why you wouldn't want to sell your case to non-voters rather than reduce the opposing lynch option for the day, unless you had good reasoning that odd is a wagon on town.

Because I want the lynch I'm supporting to actually happen :0 why wouldn't I appeal to everyone to support it.

also please reread 586 for my answer.

[Honey bee]

Well with you I didn't even understand why you were scumreading him.

With taly his reasoning felt vague and I felt it applied more to vett than odd. So I asked him to go deeper into that reasoning.

Do you have a compelling reason to scumread beyond what I said I thought was wrong, or do you want to tell me why my assertion about the reasons behind the odd wagon are incorrect? Because I feel I have found good reasons that vett is scum and I haven't heard anything about why he could be town.

[Honey bee]

No? scum really don't like defending their partners if they can't help it, and more often than not bus if they can. That's not a good reason to town read someone >:l

Also they're both at 5 so I don't know why you're acting so resigned.

[Honey bee]

idk, I'm not sure what the motive is of coming in close to deadline to ask people to justify why they're not on the counterwagon other than to try to push it the other way.

[Honey bee]

VOTE: dave for now, gut feel post flip.

plob, odd, and talah prob town.

peedit: yeah

[Honey bee]

She didn't? If someone did cause his lynch, it was

GreyICE

. He gave his wagon the momentum.

>:( I think that's because people ignore me and he's louder and more commanding than I can be.

@dave: Don't embellish history. You excused yourself from both lynches, so it doesn't matter which one you thought was more scummy. And you did this before vettrock was the leading lynch, not after. So you can't act like doing nothing was beneficial when you already made your decision.

Please explain your kaboose and odd reads tho. Odd and vett doesn't feel as vicious as scum normally bus expecially with vett leaving his vote on the random and I'm not sure how the logic your using to defend yourself doesn't apply to kaboose.

[Honey bee]

I'm also going to point out this lynch shifted less than a day before deadline. The vett lynch was in no way guarenteed, and scum were probably caught more offguard by it than anything.

[Honey bee]

I'm also going to point out this lynch shifted less than a day before deadline. The vett lynch was in no way guarenteed, and scum were probably caught more offguard by it than anything.

(actually 2 days, I forgot taly unvoted. point still stands.)

[Honey bee]

I switched to watching mode with a day to go or so, and continued to monitor off and on up to a couple hours.
My post about the choice to leave the wagons tied was about that timeframe, not earlier.
It's not an embellishment. Those are my actual thoughts from that time. A bit more organized of course, I don't actually

think

in logic. :wink:

I prefer to wait a bit more for the explanation.

I posed a question to Talah. Anyone can answer now.

sure, but you already chose to support neither. You weren't displaying an undecided opinion, you were looking for an alternative to both so you wouldn't have to decide. Shifting your opinion after that statement would be abrupt, and stating your preference postflip when before there's no evidence of that opinion is unimpressive.

And yeah, scum do use logic that can point to themselves. They'll do anything to be townread, especially when scum don't have to be convincing in their logic.

[Honey bee]

hng read my posts...

[Honey bee]

1. Unvote mislynch wagon.
2. Declare intent to vote your partner wagon.
3. Re-vote mislynch wagon for some BS reason.
4. PROFIT!

He might as well bussed at that point then.

@taly: it's just something to point out. Scum probably weren't prepared to lose vett so they're less likely to position themselves to look better after he flipped. I'm scumreading the person I'm voting, talah is town due to last minute stuff yesterday.

[Honey bee]

When I say warming up is bad, I mean that people are trying to display changing opinion. Its scummy to feel the need to show that your opinions are changing. Town can certainly do it, but when you say your opinion is changing without furthering the game its scummy.

No?????

Why is odd scum for pushing someone you hardly did? especially on scum?

[Honey bee]

Why is odd scum for pushing someone you hardly did? especially on scum?

No. He's scummy for saying he might want to; and then waiting until he was going to go if scum didint.

ok, why? Town aren't allowed to have preference?

I have trouble believing vettrock wasn't dwadling the clock until town odd was lynched. If they were scum counterwagons I imagine vett would either detract to save him or bus hard to look unaligned with odd.

Are taly and odd aligned together with vett? because your taly read doesn't make sense if you think odd's scum too.

[Honey bee]

So, assuming I'm any good at logic, and the scum didn't do something highly illogical just to mess with us, the other scum are Kaboose and Oddmusic.

I prefer to wait a bit more for the explanation.

VOTE: pisskop

how about now?

[Honey bee]

GreyICE thinks scum are fearful this game. Do I look fearful to you? If you're looking for fearful people, look for the ones who aren't posting much.
(Whether this fearfulness thing is accurate or not goes to a different point and will be answered separately.

I just got out of a game where the scum no-killed because they sucked at time management and the town thought it was because of AFK. This isn't a good point to dwell on for your defense and taking this speculation by grey and running with it bothers me.

This change in direction from GreyICE, and in particular how easy it was to convince him to switch, bothered me and I ended up not voting Vettrock myself. More on why it bothered me later, that fits in with a different train of thought.

Ok, and my points and everyone else's on that wagon points are worth ignoring over that? I feel like you were taking advantage of that jump off and spun it around to still doubt him when he jumped back on. If you meant the questioning in a "lighthearted way" What exactly was the point in questioning his taly read? What response did you expect from him as town vs scum?

[Honey bee]

I'm not quite sure what to make of your first point. Maybe you're having trouble following along.

Grey makes a comment about fearful scum. I get painted as said fearful scum because I was "afraid to commit to a wagon". I point out that a) I'm anything but fearful today and b) no reason for scum to be fearful before the flip. How does that have anything to do with whether fearfulness is the correct diagnosis for the no-kill? How does the possibility that scum just screwed up and forgot to send a kill order have any relevance to a bogus case on me being fearful, or on my response that such a case is patently absurd?

Secondly, in that case, scum screws up sending the kill, and town assumes that scum were afk -- means that town got it right. Is there a subliminal message here, that town has it right this game too? How would you know that, unless you're scum? Or is the subliminal message that town has it wrong this time and it was a time issue? In which case, you're scum again?

Unless I am misunderstanding something, Talah is criticizing you for describing yourself as "not fearful" when the way you avoided both wagons could be described as "fearful". I don't think they're implying that scum are fearful but saying that defending yourself as "not fearful" therefore town doesn't make sense. The relevance is that you were the one to bring it up in 729, and your implication that fearful = scum is mostly on your part.

And no, town were wrong; scum were there during the night they just didn't make a decision before deadline. My point was nka is ass and basing reads on it is bad. Why is that statement implying I'm informed? I never said that scum no killing wasn't out of fear.

Next, your "point" against vettrock. Did you actually give reasoning which shows depth of thought and trying to figure out the game? I'm having a little problem with finding anything deep you have posted. TBH I had trouble reading your posts and in general. Care to explain where the depth is, in case I just missed it?

Spoiler:

In post 145, Netherspite wrote:
Please do me a favor and go through vettrock and davesaz posts and then give some read on them not based on your gut.
I'm curious.
?

Ok i didn't need a reminder 2 posts later. I guess at this point i would say they are sidelining but theres something more to it. Like how davesaz is asking for reads from someone who has made their position clear but he hasn't made an effort to clearly state his own. Vettrock just hasn't commented enough for my liking.

But now I want to talk about vettrock:
vettrock wrote:
The naked vote for ploben with just "discuss". I was looking at your vote for kaboose the same.

Ok:
1. You never called that scummy. So why are you trying to compare me to a wagon you didn't support?
2. Why is a naked vote starting a wagon scummy? I just said I had a reason and you weren't supporting any previous wagons anyway so how is a new wagon bad.
3. Chrivi has more content than me? So? I'm contributing, is me not having as much as chrivi alignment indicative? And I honestly question that you think chrivi has significantly more analysis than me.

Excuse me? Have you read my posts? You know you've been pinging me for a long time, and I've already stated my problems with your vote. Now you are just misrepping me now that someone else is getting pinged by you too.

VOTE: vettrock

In post 527, vettrock wrote:
I can see where dave and GREYICE are coming from with Taly. It is often a good strategy as scum to post a lot of wordy posts to give the appearance of scum hunting. Given that it is his first game, I'm not sure that is what he is doing, but he seems to have more knowledge of the dynamics of the game than most newbies.

I also see and agree with the whiteknighting that Nethersprite seems to be doing with Taly. I think it would be too obvious to be doing to your scum partner, so I would say at least one of the two is town, but I can see one scum possibly in there.

I'm still thinking town for Kaboose, just because the reasoning behind the wagon seemed weak (along with the other two previous wagons)

I'm bacpedaling on Honey Bee as my reasoning was flawed because I didn't go back far enough to see her posts on Kaboose, so it seemed more out of place that it actually was.

I mean this is the most go with the flow thing ever, not only echoing things said in the thread, but redacting his read on me even though he shifted it to me being opportunistic scum reading him. After I put a vote on him and accused him of misrepping me, he forgets about this and excuses his unvote for being wrong about his original reason in order to avoid backtracking through that.

Then why did you attack me for this?
In post 468, vettrock wrote:
Pisskop is voting against me due to me being non-committal. This is a legitimate concern. Honey Bee then says that she was considering jumping on my wagon as well. I consider that comment by Honey Bee to be either opportunistic or sheep. My vote is staying there for now.

Even if I was sheeping or just joining on, how is that not applicable to your nether read just now?

And explain your reads a bit more. It's really unclear to me what you value as scummy and don't. You think theres scum between taly and nether, but you think taly is less scummy than kaboose (552 ???). and you're interested in the oddmusic wagon, is there a reason for odd over kaboose other than odd is the bigger wagon?

Oh you know, Not providing content early on, calling me scum for something that he never thought was scummy, misrepping how much content I provided and misrepping my suspicion of him as sheeping when I've stated he was scum from my first post, Backpedaling and completely avoiding those points, providing a shitty, contradictory and hypocritical reads list, the usual scum tells.

However, that's not my point. I get ignored all the time, I'm used to it. My point is that 5 people wanted to lynch vett and 5 people wanted to lynch odd. You excused yourself from both wagons, you never gave either slot a fair analysis. That makes me think you wanted to avoid the issue entirely.

Also good job avoiding the last part of my post which was what I wanted to focus on.

I'm sorry I've paid no where near enough attention to this game.

Does anyone have a reason Talah isn't scum?

I think the way they reacted to the vettrock lynch yesterday was pretty obviously from an uninformed position. Or at least I doubt scum berate a wagon they know will flip scum and avoid a chance to persuade someone off that wagon when asked for reasons to switch.

[Honey bee]

Also good job avoiding the last part of my post which was what I wanted to focus on.

I'm not discussing my GreyICE read, for a very good reason which involves people not asking about it. I can say that most people, possibly all, are wrong about what my read is.

That's not really what I'm asking about and you explicitly said you were wary of him yesterday but ok my vote will stay here until you do.

[Honey bee]

Would you rather have him stubbornly defend his taly read?

When you question town, you should expect them to reevaluate their position. Changing your mind is a mark of town usually. you asked:

When I read Taly's posts, I see "if you can't dazzle them with your brilliance then baffle them with your B.S." Are we on the same wavelength on that?
What I'm not sure of is how to make that alignment indicative. How do we know it's not just "loquacious newb"?
I think we get plenty of information anyway, and that's good for town, but weigh Taly vs Vettrock with that question in mind. Still like Taly better?

This question is coded with a doubt on the taly read. You cite his massive amount of words as potentially part of his personality, and ask him to compare to vett again. When he does this and switches back, you call it appeasement even though you asked him to reconsider. So I'm asking what was the point in that question. It feels loaded, especially since vett flipped scum, switching and defending his taly read could be interpreted as an opportunistic jump off. So I'm wondering what you were looking for in a town response, as your question was already leading to what he did and you read that as scummy.

Peedit: oh please. You already accused him of that. I don't think he has long term memory loss and if he was appealing scum he'd already avoid that behavior.

[Honey bee]

And why was that switch scummy as oppose to town changing their mind? Why did you give taly the benefit of the doubt and not grey?

It's good play because scum like to attack town where their weak, and switching at that time would look bad assuming he kept on taly. I don't believe you expected him to change his mind either due to his absolutely assertive personality, which is why you attacked him after persuading him. I have a hard time being convinced that players have to disagree with you to be town.

[Honey bee]

No, my point is it backfired on you. You avoided looking at either of those wagons at deadline because of poor reasoning. It doesn't have to do with your piss vote or your read on grey now. I think scum were holding their breath for the momentum of the wagons to shift back and you fit that description. Scum off either wagon wouldn't want to stick their neck out either way to keep from either being known as the person who saved scum or giving vett absolutely no chance of recovering. I don't think its unlikely for scum to ask that either, since vett was at a whooping one vote at the time and it feels like a nice way to attack a stubborn player with low risk.

If you want me off your back, please stop with these wifomy assertions and justify why you avoided those wagons. I've made these statements against you a few times so its not "inexplicable" thanks.

[Honey bee]

Do you have a reason for scum reading piss other than unjustly claiming credit for vett's lynch?

[Honey bee]

I was asking a question because I didn't understand your case and now your using that to call me scum with piss wow. You spent most of that post observing how quickly piss moved off vett so that's what I assumed you were emphasizing (plus you underlined and separated the last point).

Actually I still don't understand it. Jumping off of vett I can agree is of interest, but why is voting odd in particular any different than from just falling off?

[Honey bee]

There are 4 points to my case on Pisskop. The most important one is point 3, voting Odd only when the wagon on Vettrock got hot, when Odd was a scumread before and Vettrock was not. Point 4 was Pisskop's attempt at a coverup today.

oh I'm dumb sorry.

775 bothers me to no end so I'll consider it.

[Honey bee]

Excusing your fuckups as inattentiveness is the last thing I want to hear, the second part is really deflective, and the tone of it is just gross. I hate it.

[Honey bee]

. . . but its

honest

. my interest in games and topics tends to wax and wane.

so? It's not something I would say as town, and if it was true I would reevaluate my position until I was sure I had the details right. I don't know how you can say you aren't paying attention and push people with such confidence in the same breath.

[Honey bee]

Cute. You're about tied with me for eating rope.
. I found my scumz.

You seemed pretty confident about odd and when you switched to dave you still seem very confident. Or at least all your interaction with them isn't trying to figure them out more.

It isn't sudden, I've had bigger fish to fry though. And I still do.

[Honey bee]

I didn't quote that -.-

[Honey bee]

It's true no? I don't see doubt in your reads.

[Honey bee]

Multiple players has nothing to do with it, it's the way your pushing. I don't feel like you're trying to find info from them, but instead just goading them.

And I haven't switched. I just expressed my feelings about that post.

[Honey bee]

Meta is a reason I'm hesitant, plus I'm still like my vote here.

Are you seriously voting him because talah isn't?

[Honey bee]

Meta is a reason I'm hesitant, plus I'm still like my vote here.

Are you seriously voting him because talah isn't?

Yeah. Got a problem with it?

Do I really have to point out how bad is that reasoning is?

[Honey bee]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with me choose between the two wagons the way I did.

It's not even a reason. Talah not voting piss has no meaning on piss's alignment whatever talah's alignment is.

If you think this game is going in circles, make your case again or a new one. I already told you why I think talah's town.

[Honey bee]

I think Talah is scum. It's a gut feeling coupled with some stuff they did on D1.

There are two wagons. The person I think is scum is on one of them. Theoretically I would think there's a better chance to lynch scum by being on the opposing wagon of a person you think is scum.

Either way it was wrong, because Piss is town.

So deadlocked wagons at deadline doesn't inspire this behavior but boredom does? ok.

What did piss do to make you switch so suddenly?

[Honey bee]

Honey bee can be 98% town(not quite as town as pisskop yet though.)

If you're trying to appeal to me this isn't the way to do it.

VOTE: kaboose

[Honey bee]

:o I really wasn't expecting that but cool!

Dave I am specifically interested in your opinion on 'boose slot.

[Honey bee]

?

I don't like making associations with 2 unflipped slots.

What's your opinion of kaboose?

[Honey bee]

I feel like half the player list isn't playing the game so a second scumread will be a very light 2nd scumread.

Maybe you, but I don't feel the strong burn for your lynch anymore. Chrivi needs reevaluating, taly too.

[Honey bee]

Actually i didn't want to reevaluate because i remembered that you fucked over the odd lynch by unvoting him. You get a pass for today (also I'm not in the mood to sort those walls...). Reevaluate = not having paid attention to my read on you considering recent events.

Talah I am still confident is town for the reason I listed earlier. I'm a bit embarassed because they think I'm better than I actually am but idk what would be a better lynch atm. Sheeping isn't alignment indicative usually.

[Honey bee]

:0

[Honey bee]

@mod: Oddmusic also requested replacement a bit ago. Please advertise a slot for him too.

[Honey bee]

Who's voting kaboose on low content?

[Honey bee]

Or scum reading for that matter?

I'm reserving judgement til replacements but his talah read and his progression from that troubles me.

Peedit:ah.

[Honey bee]

Replaces are not alignment-indicative 99% of the time.

Odd's was pretty townie.

who's scum?

[Honey bee]

My focus has been elsewhere, so my Kaboose opinion is out of date. I'll have to refresh first.

I would like to hear about this before a replacement comes in if I may please.

also

@mod: Can we have an extension once both slots are filled?

[Honey bee]

My focus has been elsewhere, so my Kaboose opinion is out of date. I'll have to refresh first.

I would like to hear about this before a replacement comes in if I may please.

also

@mod: Can we have an extension once both slots are filled?

Medium strength town. D1 scum don't want to eliminate inactives because having inactives makes it easier to hide, gives them free mislynch opportunities later when they need them, and are great to have around at the end of the game. Scum want to make a case on the strongest town they can convince others to vote.

:up: :up:

Not only has he done this before, but he has done this on the exact same player.

[Honey bee]

Townreading someone for something they've done as scum means you probably should reevaluate again.

[Honey bee]

Where am I doing that?

My focus has been elsewhere, so my Kaboose opinion is out of date. I'll have to refresh first.

I would like to hear about this before a replacement comes in if I may please.

also

@mod: Can we have an extension once both slots are filled?

Medium strength town. D1 scum don't want to eliminate inactives because having inactives makes it easier to hide, gives them free mislynch opportunities later when they need them, and are great to have around at the end of the game. Scum want to make a case on the strongest town they can convince others to vote.

:up: :up:

...

Also piss is at l-2 (davesaz, GreyICE, Taly, and chrivi).

[Honey bee]

tbh I think nether is mislynch bait. Piss and dave I have reserved feelings about considering what I think their normal town play is. I'm not interested in lynching any of those names atm.

The only other lynch I see myself supporting is chrivi, but only for low effort utility and I have no reason to townread them.

[Honey bee]

OH.

he as in kaboose, not you. Sorry for the confusion. as in:

Medium strength town. D1 scum don't want to eliminate inactives because having inactives makes it easier to hide, gives them free mislynch opportunities later when they need them, and are great to have around at the end of the game. Scum want to make a case on the strongest town they can convince others to vote.

This is a quality I've observed in kaboose's scum game. So it seems unwise to town read him for it.

[Honey bee]

You think scum really want to bus when the wagons are that close?

[Honey bee]

When it doesn't change the outcome, yes. Plurality lynch is different than majority in that respect. In majority lynch, the L-2 through hammer slots can be touchy for scum, but in plurality with tied wagons, the extra vote is more like a post-hammer. It may get questioned but the answer is easier.

Bussing is so common on this site though I doubt anyone would see that vote for towncred. And it's not like it was set in stone.

Piss ffs..

[Honey bee]

Vett-lynch would have still happened next day even if odd happened beforehand. I'm at least sure of that.

[Honey bee]

actually vett probably would have suicided on someone really town like grey.

[Honey bee]

I dont think a taly lynch is going to happen in less than 2 days. Is there anyone else youre willing to vote?

[Honey bee]

Well...maybe y'know.... Kaboose? please?

I guess chrivi is ok too. I'm not thrilled about it but if I'm going to take a shot in the dark at my nulls it would have to be them.

[Honey bee]

Sigh... Ok.

VOTE: chrivi this is the only other viable wagon.

[Honey bee]

jfc now im scared.

[Honey bee]

UNVOTE:
please give me a second.

[Honey bee]

Sorry for the scare HB... Who do you think should be the lynch?

kaboose. but people are resisting it.

I just don't understand why when I've been parading alternatives to the piss lynch this is the one that catches on.

[Honey bee]

Nether was willing to butt heads with me early on and vett definitely wanted to attract attention to nether in the last few posts he made. Vett's sudden read on nether is the sort of thing I think scum like to pretend is a bus vote without actually bussing. These things make me think he's town. I think I understand what your saying but I'm doubtful he's pushing you with scum motive and not because he's not coming up with any stronger scum feelings. I equate the reasons I'm townreading him with the reasons I'm town reading you.

You're willing to go with a kaboose lynch? Chrivi is still an ok lynch if it goes through but if I can have my preference that's nice.
VOTE: kaboose

[Honey bee]

well that's interesting.

[Honey bee]

Deadline was extended until friday.

[Honey bee]

I am curious about what he wants to learn with his passivity this time. Also his opinion on chrivi.

[Honey bee]

they moved their vote off their counterwagon so they have no sense of survival here.

I'll look at taly again in a bit but i'm not getting it at the surface.

[Honey bee]

It's the player who unvotes last that has priority, or that if someone voted and unvoted chrivi they would have priority over kaboose at 3.

I read more and I still don't get it and the back and forth is way too specific too believe that it's not tvt.

Chriviiiiii please come back to the scum lynch!

[Honey bee]

taly v nether

[Honey bee]

there's two slots empty and one player saying they want to replace out do you really wanna encourage that ?

Also they towned it up in a very short time so I don't see any need.

[Honey bee]

oh, dave voted chri before nether unvoted.

Someone please switch to kaboose.

[Honey bee]

the relevance is that chrivi is pretty town because of it so maybe you're on the wrong wagon :)

[Honey bee]

I'm sure they foresaw grey's unvote and worked it into their devious scum plan.

[Honey bee]

:l slots don't stop being scum when they replace out.

When I get shot please lynch dave too.

[Honey bee]

because he doesn't want the slot to be lynched empty.

Or maybe because we won't vote taly with him.

Idk, I'm not surprised. He's playing all over the place -.-

[Honey bee]

Well I hope you're seeing that but what I'm seeing is an apathetic town slot about to be lynched in favour of a possibly-scum replace slot. Good times.

^@HB

yes, that's exactly what I'm seeing :(

[Honey bee]

It only takes one vote.

Please, real quick like, why is kaboose scum?

All of his reads are scummy. He was unnecessarily defensive about his njac read which he couldn't decide was a pl or lurking scum (or lurking town too!). The push on talah at deadline was distracting bullshit against the main two wagons and a safer option than disturbing the main two wagons that wouldn't incriminate him. He lazily pushed talah today with fake ass reachout for players to vote with him but had no interest in the responses. His vote on you was for practically no reason as well as his unvote on you too. Also note how when he thought you were hammered he called it a "hammer without intent" aka "scummy hammer". In a game where all town are the same pr and on a wagon he was already supporting it makes no sense he would call it that. He flailed around a bit after my pressure on him and replaced out which is a gross overreaction to my vote. Looking through his past games he has been through stronger tunnels than mine and would just self vote and advocate for his own lynch. I HIGHLY doubt he replaced out because he was frustrated town.

Also read his friends and enemies game. It's very interesting and dave wouldn't even acknowledge it.

[Honey bee]

Also read his friends and enemies game. It's very interesting and dave wouldn't even acknowledge it.

And the selective use of meta against chri and not against kaboose is what points to him as a partner.

[Honey bee]

he's the reason vett is dead and odd isn't.

[Honey bee]

he unvoted odd too, giving anyone the chance to move the momentum of wagons.

You really going to call someone hammering you're scum read a "hammer without intent"?

[Honey bee]

@dave: yes, when I was talking about his njac read.

I haven't posted a case yet because I really haven't felt like it. I'm not very much a "making cases" person and instead a "interact with people until they show their alignment" kind of person. Which has made this read difficult + my more gut oriented play style. So now that someone asked for reasons I gave them mine.

[Honey bee]

no he didn't vett is dead because he voted odd after plob and odd voted vett. Vett's vote could not bring odd's wagon to 5 fast enough.

[Honey bee]

@HB: Where I'm the "don't just tell me what you think but why you think it" type. If your reasons make sense than I trust both you and the reasons. If they don't make sense then I won't trust the read and will remain ambivalent toward you or think you're scum.

I was hoping you'd bring it up on your own but you instead townread him for something that clearly happened in that game so you can imagine why I'm wary of you again.

peedit: he didn't use the opportunity because he wasn't the one in the lead. Why would scum taly unvote and have to coordinate with vett to get back in the lead if something happened?

[Honey bee]

Only scum PT will show us their motivations to do this or that (if they will allow to open it).
Right now I see few possible reasons:
- distancing;
- poor communication;
- attempting to not make things obvious.
They didn't know

ploben

is going to vote

vettrock

.

and risk losing? why? If they were to try such a thing they would really want to be waiting around in case anything went wrong. and there's no way they could revote odd without being obvious.

Peedit:

My focus has been elsewhere, so my Kaboose opinion is out of date. I'll have to refresh first.

I would like to hear about this before a replacement comes in if I may please.

also

@mod: Can we have an extension once both slots are filled?

Medium strength town. D1 scum don't want to eliminate inactives because having inactives makes it easier to hide, gives them free mislynch opportunities later when they need them, and are great to have around at the end of the game. Scum want to make a case on the strongest town they can convince others to vote.

:up: :up:

Not only has he done this before, but he has done this on the exact same player.

Townreading someone for something they've done as scum means you probably should reevaluate again.

OH.

he as in kaboose, not you. Sorry for the confusion. as in:

Medium strength town. D1 scum don't want to eliminate inactives because having inactives makes it easier to hide, gives them free mislynch opportunities later when they need them, and are great to have around at the end of the game. Scum want to make a case on the strongest town they can convince others to vote.

This is a quality I've observed in kaboose's scum game. So it seems unwise to town read him for it.

[Honey bee]

Another followup -- compare me vs pisskop in this game to me vs. swag in that game.

Is it comparable?

You seem to be scumreading him for most of the game but he was town. You still seem to be scumreading piss. Why do you want to compare those two?

@nether: That lynch went through by the skin of it's teeth, and would have lost if taly hadn't unvoted and vett checked the thread in time.

[Honey bee]

2nether: Then why wouldn't taly just bus? I still maintain that the scum were holding their breath for someone to switch to odd. And you may have been confident about the lynch, but we had one vote purely because it was the counterwagon and another because ploben wanted to prove something about odd's alignment.

peedit: what

[Honey bee]

well ok. ty dave.

[Honey bee]

talah, honey bee, taly, pisskop, davesaz are voting kaboose. Ploben and grey are voting chrivi.

[Honey bee]

=( I wanted to play with grib..

[Honey bee]

Well, no other options but

pisskop

now.
The way he jumped on the

Kaboose

's wagon... speaks for itself.

But I expect you to mislynch me first to realize that.
I was terribly wrong yesterday.

r u serious...

[Honey bee]

._. It was only a game a few months ago, I'd thought you could at least remember if you've played with him before.

who you think is the final scum?

[Honey bee]

Piss's right about him being the hammer. We were tied with taly & chri with chri having priority.

He also jumped off chri when chri and kaboose were at 4 with chri having priority too.

[Honey bee]

HB, why did you think you'd get shot last night, and it'd most likely be because of Dave?

I've had it out for him for a while. If he's going to risk killing someone, it might as well be me.

[Honey bee]

Piss's right about him being the hammer. We were tied with taly &amp; chri with chri having priority.

He also jumped off chri when chri and kaboose were at 4 with chri having priority too.

I'd have to go back to clarify but the thing that stuck out to me the most was the sly vote/unvote from Taly to ChriVi and off again which switched the lynch off 3 tied wagons (Kaboose winning) to 2 tied wagons (ChriVi winning). I'm not sure how important that is though. I went through the 2 scumflip ISOs after Kaboose got lynched and had pisskop on my prob-town list due to interactions.

I think I'm going to end up voting dave today but not really in a rush right now.

Edit: I'll take a look back at dave but the ineffectual bus vote doesn't even come into my read that much. It's the logic leaps to cover bad reasoning really. @Grey

The thing about piss is that my case on kaboose wasn't any more threatening than my other posts about him. He agreed to it by his own decision. Also I think not wanting to lynch empty slots isn't a bad reason for not wanting that lynch.

Dave is still on my possibilities, but i see no need to rush too.

[Honey bee]

Same things we've mentioned were scummy about him yesterday, plus his votes at deadline were either in the wrong place or at the wrong time. But I'm still sorting out my feelings and want to hear some other stuff before I speak up about my reads. So u get a raincheck on that last question.

[Honey bee]

Honeybee help taly carry us kthx

i'm workin on it :p
My townread on you hasn't disappeared from yesterday if you're wondering.

vettrock was obviously getting lynched. He slipped too hard. Bussing & distancing was best possible strategy.
Especially bussing in such a vague way like you pointed out (to unvote and revote just in time to not make oddmusic a leading wagon).

Talk about this nether please.

[Honey bee]

I'm waiting for you to rationalize that statement with the rest of your play. Also to explain what you think "busing" is and why scum do it.

[Honey bee]

@Honey bee

I don't see how that statement contradicts the rest of my play.
I'm just saying what I think about bussing vettrock.
Under "bussing" I mean helping his lynch in any way. Doing that subtly like Taly did would be awesome as a scum tactic because no one will see it as scummy move ("If he is scum he'd bus more obviously to get towncred").

It felt out of nowhere. Especially when your previous suspect was talah and you had hardly questioned the motives of the players actually on that wagon. Using that as a reason to push taly and not kaboose feels fake without it being elsewhere.

And scum bus for towncred obviously, so they want to do it in obvious ways. Otherwise you receive no credit. and I'm pretty sure I'm the only person to mention it or town read him for that.

[Honey bee]

I'm fine with a nether or dave lynch.

Also sorry about the v/la, I've been doing finals and other school shit.

[Honey bee]

He's saying you're comfortable lynching enough people to win you the game as scum.

[Honey bee]

Don't selfhammer if you're town.

[Honey bee]

I'm trying to speed the things up as most of the town (and the scum obviously) wants my blood.

Self voting is only helpful if there's something to gain out of a role related death. If you're willing to vote dave I'll vote with you. Or just let someone else hammer and learn something from that. just don't.

[Honey bee]

@HB: Which is a sign that some of those players are failing rather dramatically at playing as town.
If the last scum is outside my set of candidates then they've played an awesome game.

ewwwww
VOTE: dave

[Honey bee]

I'm trying to speed the things up as most of the town (and the scum obviously) wants my blood.

Self voting is only helpful if there's something to gain out of a role related death. If you're willing to vote dave I'll vote with you. Or just let someone else hammer and learn something from that. just don't.

Why are you both with

talah

are so against

davesaz

?

I'm pretty confident in my talah read as per my reason from yesterday. Dave I can find barely any reason to townread and he has done plenty for me to be ok with lynching him.

peedit: :roll: You're play so far gives you no right to say that.

[Honey bee]

:good:

[Honey bee]

SHIT!

I knew Ploben was a possible scum candidate! Town was going to get themselves killed!

Massive Kudos to HB for her play, and Ploben for his scumplay.

Thanks, You played well too.

I'd like to thank also everyone on kaboose lynch especially talah, because that turnaround felt so good.

[Honey bee]

Do we get to see the scum and dead pts?