Open 589: Duck Duck Goose (Game Over: Somebody Won)

[ploben]

talah and taly...that's not going to get confusing.
/sarcasm
One of you has to go.
VOTE: talah
I'll be the only one making the jokes here, thank you very much

[ploben]

VOTE: ploben

I have a problem with ploben.

Take a number

[ploben]

Without flavor he votes. Dissapointed I am.

Sorry,
My vote for a random reason is.

First one on the list that I played with I have.

Oh boy. If he keeps this up vettrock is my D1 lynch hands down. I'll start the wagon, drive the wagon, and hammer it. All day and twice on Sunday (which today happens to be).

[ploben]

So you'd rather lynch someone for talking in a way you don't like than lynch someone for being scum?

Of course not. RVS talk bro.

I could say the same to you about post 10 but instead of it being the way I talk it's some "problem" you have with me.

RVS ended for you waaaaaaaay too soon Kaboose.

[ploben]

But now I actually have a problem with ploben as I did 16 posts ago.

Uhhh, alright. The floor is yours. Enlighten us.

[ploben]

@taly's 37

Someone's put in their application for their town card. First game you say, eh?

[ploben]

Yes, this is my first game. Does this mean you consider me a town read yourself, then? If not, what do you think about my postion thus far?

To me it's less what you said and more how you said it, which I still find it a funny exercise to interpret tone in a bunch of text on a screen. Your willingness to admit the progression of the game and keep it rolling speak to me about your intent. I'm liking it so far.

I am cautious, though, as you have said you'd been following and analyzing mafia "a lot" so you would obviously know to project confidence early and often if you were to roll mafia in the first game you were participating in.

[ploben]

Should read: "...as you've said you have been..."

[ploben]

I'll start with taly, which it looks like he's going to make it tough to quote with his wall posts, but that should leave us with a lot of info later in the game as to what his intentions are and we need to go back and look at early posts for comparison. As a new player the analysis of RVS is interesting and my gut says to read taly townie for that. But, once again, he's made it clear he's seen and analyzed "a lot" of mafia so a player that's done that has a pretty good head start on what to do and what not to do as both alignments. Execution is a different story, once you find yourself in the middle of your first game. With that said, it seems like a big mistake to admit your full experience with mafia and then try not to be sincere. I feel you're only setting yourself up to get busted as scum. Town lean on taly for me.
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NJAC post sequence is a red flag for me.
34 - RVS vote outside of RVS
38 - Deflection to discuss taly as town or not
39 - "I don't want to lynch [taly], at least not until I get something from you which I consider scummy from your part (which I haven't yet, btw)." OK, then why not take your vote off taly, which you're claiming is RVS but probably isn't, and move along? That statement doesn't sit right with me, almost like you're waiting for taly to slip up and you won't leave until he does. Scum hunting? Maybe. Then the deflection to focus on me and Kaboose in last sentence.
45 - I'm translating this as to NJAC thinks RVS is not over yet, "some players", yet is treating his vote as RVS.

It sits weird with me and I'm not a big fan of it at the moment.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

But now I actually have a problem with ploben as I did 16 posts ago.

Uhhh, alright. The floor is yours. Enlighten us.

Your post 65 reads as a weak excuse for your overreaction to my joke, which there is no confusion you knew it was a joke. You're consistent with your reasoning on RVS and by not giving our interaction anymore time or thought in your posts makes me think you're trying to move the game along to solve it. I do like that.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Speaking of new vs. experienced, you seem to know the lingo pretty well yourself, for someone with a joindate only a couple weeks ago. Have you played mafia before?

I don't want to get in trouble with referencing games in this site or even dance on the line of that rule (as I accidentally did before) but my experience on MS is limited but I'm getting myself involved. My join date accurately portrays the start of my involvement here. I've also watched about a month of Daily Mafia (live webcam game) and have now participated in 3 games, all last week. I go by the same moniker on DM as I do here so feel free to put a face to the name.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
I've become a fan of talah in my short time here on MS. I can't go into details about that due to the reason stated above about discussing other games. But this also makes me weary because it could blind my vision on her and not looking at her more critically than I should. As of now I have no issue with talah and no real read.
UNVOTE: talah
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Netherspite is fucking retarded, get out of my game please

talah, don't ask obvious questions you have the answers to. Useless. Use your time scumhunting, not asking me why I made an obvious RVS vote please.

Taly is fucking stupid.

VOTE: Taly
Discuss.

I want to start out by saying the name calling is completely uncalled for, but that could be attributed to the maturity of the player (age 17, if that's even accurate). That being said, obvious reaction grinding here. Could be mafia hiding behind the veil of scum hunting, but I doubt that very much. ChriVi has a much different play style then most I've seen and certainty different from me but I don't find that scummy. Leaning town here, but with an unconventional play style.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
With Netherspite, I agree with him that the whole meta thing and pointing out your meta is just useless noise in the game. It's a strategy, I guess, but it's more of a distraction. What I don't agree with is his feelings that we "caught scum off-guard" and ChriVi is quick to point this out in a very concise way, making it very clear why this is a bad read from Netherspite. Null read on Neth for me, nothing really jumping out at me yet.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
So sorry for the wall here people. Rough day for me yesterday IRL but I didn't want to get too far behind in this game before giving some reads.

[ploben]

I think there needs to be a revolution among Mafia games that D1 becomes less scum hunting based on absolutely nothing(unless a game mechanic changes that of course) and evolves to be more of removing dead weight in hopes of prolonging those the town deem most helpful moving forward.

If you've ever played a live game this is exactly what happens. There's usually so many people that town can afford a mislynch of dead weight and let the night actions speak for D2+ analysis.

[ploben]

Although, I do understand your concerns, and I'm beginning to realize your insights, but I don't know what you mean by "and then try not to be sincere," I haven't said anything so far that was a lie. Even though there's little I can say to back up this previous statement, all I can say is that it is true, and I assure you it is.

What I meant by that sentence was as a player, like yourself, with pretty good "observational" knowledge of the game, it would not behoove you to divulge your experience and knowledge and then follow that up with game play which reflects an immature understanding of the game. Simple put, someone would say "I know a lot about this game" and then play the actual game like they didn't know what they were doing. It would not look good and probably come of as manipulative or somewhat anti-town.

I'm not at all saying that's what you're doing. In fact, it's quite the opposite. I think you've approached this game with eyes wide open and show a motivation to analyze the game and make us aware of what you come up with. I think there is some refining of your game that needs to take place through "being in the trenches" but that will come with time and actual game play. That's not to say we all can't learn (myself definitely included), no matter how long someone has been playing.

The more I'm thinking about it, the more I'm realizing that ChriVi could very well be town. What I said to [ploben's] quote about NJAC's actions(above.) It makes me question if people are corresponding with others.

I'm not sure what you mean by "if people are corresponding with other". Can you explain this?

[ploben]

Here's somthing linked off Storyteller's first post and which I didn't actually realise until just now:
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... uck,_Goose!

Scum *do* have daytalk.

On the surface this just reads town for me. Attention to detail, going back to find answers. Granted, this point is very true:

We can't read the late realization that scum have daytalk as a town slip. Scum could post that in the game as a way of telling buddies to get in the PT. Being daytalk we can look for unnatural degrees of coordination as a possible scumtell.

But here's another aspect that pushed my read on talah as town: She's not playing a "middle of the road" game. She's active and confident in her reads as well as being confident and not afraid to admit she would rather have someone else (Netherspite) assist in the reads and "translation" of taly. A good strategy for scum? Maybe. But at this point with the little information I have to go off of, talah's a town read for me.

[ploben]

I'd like to hear more from NJAC and his reads. Not much content from you this game.
VOTE: NJAC

[ploben]

My top two scum reads are both voting my top town read... Hmmm...

NJAC and ChriVi on Taly?

[ploben]

RVS is useless posting, although RVS is what gets us out of RVS. You wanted to go back to RVS, and I hate RVS. So it's like I'm your pet cat and you're taking me to the vet. I don't like it.

That problem was simply you wanting RVS to stay put I think. You've finally joined us in not RVS so it's not really a problem I've had.

I don't think RVS posting is useless posting, I think the content in RVS is not really game related, but RVS is just the natural style the game has to open with. The bigger point is the progression out of RVS to start seriously evaluation the game. This point I agree with, we were willing to move out of RVS and NJAC wanted to suck us back in, inhibiting game progression, and thus progressing scum's ultimate agenda of pushing chaos and distracting from the game.

Kaboose, yes, NJAC finally joined us out of RVS, but not before a good deal of distracting us back into RVS. Any alignment, town or mafia, would need to back off RVS eventually or else you would just be drumming up suspicion on yourself early in the game.

[ploben]

What are your thoughts on the NJAC wagon? He's at L-2...

Lurker wagon. Very little behavior that strikes me as actually being scummy. Okay wagon at deadline, but right now it seems a little counter-productive to me.

At this point it's all we have to go off of. Dodgy has given us something so we can at least go back on it to compare with other people's read or compare with a post lynch alignment flip. NJAC has given us his idea that RVS isn't over unless he says it's over and talah is town but write up to come later and finally an RVS vote on taly still, whether NJAC thinks we're still in RVS or not I guess is up to NJAC. We have 2 weeks still in D1 so plenty of time but I like the idea of getting NJAC to L-1 and seeing what he's got to say.

[ploben]

Obviously not a claim but it would be nice for NJAC to contribute some reads and maybe explain why he's still sitting on his RVS vote.

[ploben]

@ Anybody currently voting for NJAC: What would you like to hear from NJAC?

I'd like to hear his rendition of the Star Spangled Banner.....backwards.

If your vote weren't on him, where would you put it?

Somewhere on Netherspite, davesaz, talah, Honey bee, dodgy56, vettrock, Kaboose, oddmusic, ChriVi, or Taly.

[ploben]

No, I never said "I didn't care".

Why would I reveal what I want to hear from a player before I hear from that player?

@ ploben: Is there a reason you chose to give the most flippant possible answer to my question?

I wanted to give you an answer and not just ignore your question, that would just be rude.

[ploben]

282 << Don't know where this came from.

I'm Paranoid...I don't trust anyone

pedit: Actually looking at how Taly answered the first question, I think I can rephrase it to work: Do you have any questions for NJAC?

Much better question odd. I'd ask for his reads, ask him for any other opinions, and ask him why his RVS vote is still in effect.

@ ploben: Is there a reason you chose to give the most flippant possible answer to my question?

Just felt like it.

[ploben]

Prod all the inactives please.

[ploben]

It was more a request for NJAC and dodgy, 3+ days from last post

[ploben]

But I hold you to a higher standard talah so every 3 hours from you.

[ploben]

It wasn't a joke. RVS hasn't ended for me. Who says that's useless posting? You and I see RVS in a different way.

This was supposed to read as: "RVS

hadn't

ended for me". RVS is obviously over since like page 2 or 3.

Unvote

More later...

This is exactly why I wrote 282 & 285. Now all we have is a backtracking with no explanation on anything else...probably because he already read that we were suspicious about it instead of just letting him continue his play like he normally would have and maybe getting more out of that.

[ploben]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: ploben

Discuss

Maybe this is stupid to even ask but:
Is this obvious town play that ChriVi is exhibiting or mafia hiding behind obvious town play?

[ploben]

I don't like the argument that something is "obvious town play" and therefore obviously scum. But, as somebody who's been on this site for about a month I have to ask…what makes 309 obvious town play?

Let me try to ask my question a better way:

UNVOTE:
VOTE: ploben

Discuss

Is this an attempt to look town or an attempt to look like scum?

[ploben]

Why would one attempt to look like a scum? :O

Exactly, that's my point. See I think it's an overly obvious attempt to look scummy. Which makes me think it's way too obvious for mafia to actually do. So by PoE, ChriVi has to be town...

...obviously...(sorry, had to throw that in there)

But in all seriousness, ChriVi's actions are just trying to move the game along, promote discussion. Lacking content he/she/their posts sometimes are but intention to progress the game they do not lack. Personally, I can put up with this behavior because it's early in our day. But if this pattern continues from ChriVi without anything of substance I will be less understanding.

[ploben]

Fair enough oddmusic. I just disagree with you about ChriVi's behavior.

We've been playing IRL for roughly 11 days with roughly 12 days left. I guess "early in the day" was incorrect of me but it's by no means "late in the day".

...or is it just a theatre planned in scum PT between you and

ChriVi

?
I'm not accusing you or smth, just not ignoring that possibility.

To ignore the possibility would be to ignore your town duty Netherspite...that is IF you're town.

I guess, in my round about way of doing so, I was revealing my townread on ChriVi, though not completely excusing them of their behavior if it continues closer to the deadline.

[ploben]

I also want to hear more of plobens thoughts onto ChriVi, why he thought they were town, and why ploben isn't seeming to trust their behavior as of right now.

322

319 explains my townread. I'm not sure where you're getting "ploben isn't seeming to trust their behavior as of right now."

[ploben]

To Taly and ploben both: How did "We" manage to PoE everyone else off into not-being-lynched land with half of Day 1 to go?

"We" didn't. I didn't PoE everone either. NJAC, to me, was a good place to start to push, maybe still is. I wanted to see a natural response from NJAC with his own read on the game and explanations for his actions, without spoon feeding questions to him.

The whole "we" thing is a habit I do at work when addressing our company of 16 people. I work in IT with my boss and instead of saying "I'm doing this" or "I'm investigating this" I usually just say "we" as the IT guys, the team.

But what I find more interesting is oddmusic's question to everyone voting on NJAC in 281 and his followup to my response, 282, 284, and 287 (davesaz stuck a quick comment in there also but never really followed up). But I was pretty clear about what I was looking for not to far previously, back in 274

Obviously not a claim but it would be nice for NJAC to contribute some reads and maybe explain why he's still sitting on his RVS vote.

Why was this missed oddmusic? Why argue something I was pretty clear about in a few posts previous? Are you trying to drum up a case against me? You jumped on my thought process in 289 but not before throwing a little suspicion my way.

Am I just being irritated by inconsequentials here...

Yes

...or is this idea that there's a "we" without some kind of established personal set of townreads kind of contradictory?

No

...Like already being a part of a "We" in the scum PT?

No. But it's interesting the mafia PT is getting brought up again, especially in light of what I've written about oddmusic above. I'm drawn to:

--- What I meant by "if people are corresponding with others," I personally don't know if Mafia can speak to each other in another link during the day, and even without that idea, people during the day can manipulate how people see others through their own analysis on them. (Like, getting a wagon, or making someone dislike someone else, etc.)

Here's somthing linked off Storyteller's first post and which I didn't actually realise until just now:
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... uck,_Goose!

Scum *do* have daytalk.

well then. glad you brought this up. i didnt know that

Uh, why did you feel the need to point this out? I mean, I'm glad to know there was scum daytalk as well, but I didn't feel the need to make a post about it.

Why so defensive about the PT? This seems like an overreaction. Then some words just fumbling out from oddmusic in 186 & 187. Not sure why this makes for an instant townread (talah). It makes me want to keep an eye on oddmusic.

[ploben]

@oddmusic

Both players are on my suspicion list. I think they need to be looked at. I actually see your point about Dodgy's lurky-ness and useless posts being more dangerous than NJAC. I'll keep that in mind.

I don't know what to make of this: this is the second instance you have chosen to post as if you are speaking and not typing and utilizing the ability to go back and look at your actual words in past events or proofread before posting. I already brought up 186 and 187 and now in 337 you're trying to recall in what order you asked about the NJAC wagon, which you actually recalled incorrectly. You made a general question first in 281 and then taly answered you in 286 which you then directed a different question at me in 287. I'm really not sure what to make of this and maybe I'm making a mountain out of a mole hill. I guess it makes you look like you're speaking naturally and not making calculating posts, which is getting townread by talah. Can anyone else weigh in on this?

[ploben]

@Storyteller

It's been around 55 hours since your dodgy56 prod and almost 7 days now since his last post. Can we expect a replacement for him?

[ploben]

So you'd rather lynch someone for talking in a way you don't like than lynch someone for being scum?

Of course not. RVS talk bro.

I could say the same to you about post 10 but instead of it being the way I talk it's some "problem" you have with me.

RVS ended for you waaaaaaaay too soon Kaboose.

Kaboose tries to get out of RVS and start making things serious so we can start getting information > ploben tries to push us back down into RVS

Where in my 25 do I try to push us back into RVS?

Please go fuck yourself

If I could I would never leave the house.

[ploben]

By saying that RVS ended way too soon for Kaboose; Implying that we should still be in RVS.

This is a stretch ChriVi.

If you're not going to provide useful content just go back to insulting people.

[ploben]

Hey pisskop

[ploben]

Why so defensive about the PT? This seems like an overreaction. Then some words just fumbling out from oddmusic in 186 & 187. Not sure why this makes for an instant townread (talah). It makes me want to keep an eye on oddmusic.

Are you talking to me here or oddmusic?

This was to oddmusic, which he answered. The line "Not sure why this makes for an instant townread (talah)." was indirectly a question to you, which you also answered. All good.

The whole "we" thing is a habit I do at work when addressing our company of 16 people. I work in IT with my boss and instead of saying "I'm doing this" or "I'm investigating this" I usually just say "we" as the IT guys, the team.

I work in IT as well (Hi! "The system seems really slow today" "Yeah that's right - we actually turned the dial down, sorry about that") or more relevantly, as part of teams. So I'm conversant with the royal we and in fact even in Mafia I use the word frequently to refer to "Town".

However - referring to an NJAC lynch as fait accompli for Town with more than a real life week for yourself to find scum - seems off.

I think I've been pretty clear on my stance on NJAC and my vote on him. With a possible replacement of NJAC I'll see how that plays out but for now I'm happy where my vote is. Oddmusic did bring up a good point on Dodgy in 337, but with my eye on oddmusic and pisskop now replacing dodgy I'll have to see how that aspect plays out also.

[ploben]

The thing about ploben doesn't bother me, newer players I think tend to start getting scared about personalities are just coordinated acts or not.

You're going to have to explain this because I don't understand it at all.

[ploben]

OK, I see what you're saying. To me, ChriVi's behavior isn't scummy but it isn't strong town by any stretch of the imagination. There are just other things on my list to be looking at today above ChriVi, but by no means giving ChriVi a pass today.

[ploben]

I'm just going to throw my 2¢ in here on this:
First off, I'm not scumreading either Honey or ChriVi at the moment. With that said, I think once a player decides their tactic is going to be reaction grinding and naked voting, especially if that player then gets town read, it's so easy for scum to follow suit, do the same thing, and then use the case "well this person did it and you didn't find it suspicious so why am I?" I think if one player partakes in that tactic then let them do it on their own. Find another way to investigate the game. Otherwise you end up distracting town. Now maybe this is true if one or both parties are mafia, but as I said before, if this is town and town doing this naked vote thing, stop. Let ChriVi use that tactic and prove his/her worth.

[ploben]

Now maybe this is true if one or both parties are mafia, but as I said before, if this is town and town doing this naked vote thing, stop. Let ChriVi use that tactic and prove his/her worth.

That should say "Now maybe this is

the tatic

if one or both parties are mafia..."

[ploben]

@Storyteller

Can you prod NJAC? I'm guessing he didn't catch up this week and might ask to replace out.

[ploben]

UNVOTE:

Forgot what we were doing there but more important things...

I feel like NJAC was scummy, but now there's a wagon on him.. And it's not taking off extremely fast (there's only 3 people on it) which really enforces the idea that NJAC is scum because otherwise scum would be pushing for a lynch.

VOTE: NJAC

I disagree with this. The "speed" on the votes on NJAC doesn't point to his alignment. If anything, it sheds light on the people who are voting for him and their motivations.

I think it's interesting you play this "scatterbrain" sort of game yet when you're not insulting people the "content" that comes out of your mouth (typed out by your fingers) is utter crap.

The NJAC lynch is looking more and more like a policy lynch, which I don't like. This doesn't cast a good light on Kaboose and I'm inclined to think he's the mafia on the NJAC wagon, maybe along with ChriVi. Even if NJAC is mafia, my take is inactive mafia is less dangerous than active mafia in D1.

VOTE: Kaboose

[ploben]

@ploben

Why

Kaboose

and not someone else?

If ChriVi wasn't so obvious BM early on my vote would be on him/her/it for being otherwise useless. I'm suspicious on the NJAC slot because of the RVS thing but with a replacement pending I can wait. I don't agree with Kaboose on his stance on the deadline or the policy lynch. Like I said before, I think active mafia is more dangerous than inactive mafia.

[ploben]

UNVOTE: NJAC

Ploben why am I scum?

NJAC was looking more and more like a policy lynch. I disagree with your views on policy lynches and it's now funny that you jumped off NJAC after my vote for you but you seem to be happy with a policy lynch today so I have to ask why did you jump of NJAC?

I also don't like your 132 at all. I think this thought process is a great way for scum to push a mislynch. I think enough happens D1 that you don't just need to remove "dead weight". Even if there's a mislynch D1, if you lynch a player that provided content you can use that info in D2. If you lynch a player that was dead weight with no content you get nothing from the flip and you just reduced the number of town, so a double whammy.

[ploben]

NJAC was my target for lynch due to his uselessness, his stalling, and just overall crap of a game. I placed my vote on him because I didn't like him trying to keep RVS going, and because he wasn't scum hunting. I removed my vote because he's replacing out. I had nothing but playstyle as a reason for my vote on NJAC. Assuming playstyle between two players will be different, that slot no longer needs my vote until the next person comes in and gives me either the same reason to vote them, or a new one. But perhaps they won't give me a reason at all? I don't know yet.

You would have been better off just copying and pasting my reads. Would have taken you less time.

Look at it this way. We don't lynch NJAC, and we lynch me. D2 comes and NJAC will surely still be alive even if he's town because why would the scum NK someone who hasn't done anything? D2 starts up and we're all looking at stuff to talk about.

It must be opposite day in Kaboose-ville. THIS is the exact reason why mafia would NK NJAC, because then town has nothing to go off of to figure out why he got NK'ed.

[ploben]

But why is Odd town?

Because he's a cautious newbie who is oversharing things to fully walk through his reasoning for us. He doesn't want to get lynched, but not in a scummy way, more in an "I'm new, I'm giving 110%, love me friends" way. He's not quite sure how to scumhunt, naturally scared of mislynching, and has not yet developed the blood rage (the blood rage will come children, oh yes it will). It's all super genuine. Plus if he were scum, he'd be scared overcautious scum, which means reading all of his posts for scumtells.

How does this differ from taly's play?

[ploben]

How does this differ from taly's play?

Because the grand joy of posters who think that lines of logic will find you scum is that it's really easy to see when the lines of logic aren't there.

In the case of Taly, please go look at his. Are those lines of logic, or a play-by-play commentary on what's happened in the thread? Overcommentary is different from no commentary.

Taly right here has no idea how to leave RVS while looking town, so he discusses theory of RVS: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p6640124

No actual questions are asked by Taly after that post

Seriously, go and check.

Then we get a reads list: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p6642104

So... Taly knows enough about mafia to give a reads list... but doesn't have any questions he wants answered?

BURN THE WITCH BURN HER BURN THE WITCH

Taly did ask me what I thought of him in 42. Questions in 89...so on. I understand just asking a question for the sake of asking something doesn't make you town. Most of the time taly is asking other's how to think, or at least that's what I'm translating it to say. I've already stated my paranoid reservations about taly and the whole "claim-newbie-but-act-like-you-know-what-you're-doing". It's something I'm keeping in the back of my mind at the moment because I see more egregious scummy actions so far, including, but not limited to, my current read and vote on Kaboose.

[ploben]

So what are your thoughts on Vettrock?

Because he needs to die for being scum.

To be honest, I think I was distracted with the whole NJAC thing and then conversing with Kaboose that vettrock kind of slipped by me. Outside of the initial "Yoda" RVS interaction (So long ago at the beginning of the day, that was) I haven't really had any opinion on him. I will be ISO'ing him tonight.

[ploben]

***looks up from vettrock ISO***

Hmmm. That was interesting.

***continues reading vettrock ISO***

[ploben]

Vett has had some weird notions, dragging his feet through RVS in 47, the bad vote on Honey in 382 which almost looks like an OMGUS defense of Kaboose because of Honey's vote on Kaboose. The rest is mostly just filler. Not sure how I feel yet, especially in light of what's unfolding late in the day.

In light of your push on taly I think vett is lower on the lynch list for me at this point. I'm still convinced about Kaboose with his policy lynch and his thoughts on the deadline, especially in D1 where it's tough to pin down scum so you want to use as much time as you can.

[ploben]

Mmmm, I thought about talking about Kaboose, but a wagon for him voting for the NJAC wagon (that you were on) is just silliness.

So tell me, you read Taly's posts, neh? Anything strike you about them? Especially, for a logical player, see any, y'know, issues with the logic and flow of events there?

Pedit: This blew up. Someone read Taly's list of questions, and the post before that. Actually sit down and read them. See anything... off?

Is this directed at me?

[ploben]

Oh yeah. Taly's post is very striking.

[ploben]

@Odd

My vote for Grey was nothing of the sort of an OMGUS. It was to see if he would open up and explain to me his position, and I was sadly mistaken.

I know this wasn't directed at me but how can you say your vote wasn't anything but OMGUS?

[ploben]

Come on taly, seriously? How has Grey not opened up and explained his position this entire time, since he came into the game?

[ploben]

Whichever I vote is bigger right now. And I like odd for scum better thank Kaboose partially because I was unsure about him (but thought he was a good candidate) when I voted him, and then the dave and nether show turned up to "assist" with thin reasoning off the back of it.

oddmusic I've been wary of for a bit and he owes me the answer to a question. Also I'm liking ChriVi and ploben for town.

vettrock - egh maybe. I have him in the null possibly dubious pile along with netherspite.

I feel like oddmusic's a better offering for lynch overall given 2 days to go.

Odd's just been...odd. I don't see him pushing scum agenda so far, not sure why all the hubbub around him.

My feelings on vett are the same...just ehh. He's 3rd on a list of 3 I'd lynch today.

I'm not sure why Kaboose is just being given a pass by most people. He flat out said he'd rather just lynch inactive town instead of scumhunting and then made the case why mafia would never kill inactive town. He's literally pushing an agenda to leave town with little to no information after D1 and N1.

[ploben]

I'm not sure why Kaboose is just being given a pass by most people. He flat out said he'd rather just lynch inactive town instead of scumhunting and then made the case why mafia would never kill inactive town. He's literally pushing an agenda to leave town with little to no information after D1 and N1.

Being wrong != scum.

No but...
pushing scummy agenda ≈ scum

[ploben]

@Ploben: You're a good player, and I can tell. At some point in your mafia career though, you have to stop trying to lynch people who are scummy, and start trying to lynch people who are scum. Objectively speaking, is Kaboose's play not great? Maybe. We could spend decades arguing mafia theory. But I can tell you know he's flipping green. You can smell it. You're trying to sell yourself on why it's a good vote.

Come join me on Vett. Or Netherspite. Or Tuly. Or hell, sell me on someone new, I'm hardly infallible, and I can change my mind. But stop voting for someone who is giving you that depressing sinking feeling of green flip.

I'm really not that good and my "mafia career" (live and forum) is probably only a month old. I'm not really sure what this is Grey. Pocketing me? Maybe. Setting me up to try and trip me later? I dunno. Here's what I do know: I'm fine with your entrance to the game. I'm giving ChriVi the D1 town pass. Vett is 3rd on my list of people to lynch today with his lack of content. Taly jumped to 2nd on my lynch list today, thanks to your push and his OMGUS reaction. But Kaboose actively and purposefully laid out an agenda that is anything but town. You can't tell I know he's flipping green because I'm thinking he's flipping red. That's what I smell.

[ploben]

I'd like to see dave come off of piss, because that's a wasted vote that was on the slot and not the new player, and I'd like to see the non-voters maybe make a stand and vote someone with just a little over 2 days to go.

Netherspite, vettrock, Kaboose, Taly

where are you at this late in the day? Reads?

[ploben]

Sorry I took your top of the page VC post slot Storyteller.

[ploben]

I'd like to see dave come off of piss, because that's a wasted vote that was on the slot and not the new player, and I'd like to see the non-voters maybe make a stand and vote someone with just a little over 2 days to go.

Netherspite, vettrock, Kaboose, Taly

where are you at this late in the day? Reads?

Putting those in order I think I would go:
Nether
Kaboose
Taly

Vettrock is obvtown....

That's not what I meant. I just called out all the non-voters.

[ploben]

dave & odd

Why do you feel the need to stall the game at the end of the day by either asking questions already answered (but you not reading the game or wanting your particular answer spoon fed to you) or writting huge posts explaining why you didn't answer a previous question instead of just answering the question?

If we needed half population + 1 to lynch this would look so much worse for two, especially Dave, who is still wasting a vote on a replaced player and keeps promising some sort of clarity. Odd, you're at least on who I think is scum today but your play really worries me if you happen to be around for future days. I'm going to have to re-read what happened over night (in my time zone) after my 2nd cup of coffee but the first 3 paragraphs of 571 this late in the day might push you to the front of my lynch list.

[ploben]

My 544 expressed an interest in Talah shifting like that. They seem to enjoy the flavor of the day for lynches.

VOTE: Talah

If you were suspicious of talah 24 hours ago why didn't you drop a vote on her then? Why did you wait for someone else to place the first vote before you placed your vote on talah?

[ploben]

Dave: You were building a case against talah...fine...

Odd: Your reaction puts you in the same boat as taly in my mind.

Kaboose: That talah vote is garbage this late in the day. I'd still like you to answer my question in 594, although I admit, there's very little you can say at this point that will change my mind and my vote.

[ploben]

Wow, sorry Storyteller. That's two pages I've taken your VC post slot. I give you permission to replace my 600 with me quoting the current VC and you quote my 600 as post 601.

[ploben]

If you'd like I can unvote, then the first person on Talah's wagon can unvote, and I'll vote again so I can be the first? I really don't care where I land on the wagon, but I would like Talah lynched.

I was right, there was very little you could say that could change my mind.

Can I trade in my gun for an extra vote today?

[ploben]

I'm going to RNG whether or not to arm myself at night.

[ploben]

Kaboose isn't scum, he's trying to lynch scum. Not well, but he's trying. Think about it ploben, if he knows Talah isn't scum, why the late day vote?

Why the late day vote? To try and prove he's town by sheeping dave's half way decent case against talah and try and prove he's figuring out the game.

Or the simple answer: because his wincon says so

Win condition:
You win when all members of the town have been eliminated or nothing can prevent this from occurring.

[ploben]

If you'd like I can unvote, then the first person on Talah's wagon can unvote, and I'll vote again so I can be the first? I really don't care where I land on the wagon, but I would like Talah lynched.

Actually, if you can do this successfully I will unvote you.

[ploben]

Okay, my lunch break I'm going to explain exactly why vettrock committed one of the oldest scum tells on mafiascum, and how you most certainly could have lynched him by page 8 for a free scumflip.

Do you have lunch one a week? What happened to this?

[ploben]

No thanks Honey. Because it's not a half population + 1 vote lynch scheme, but instead a most votes gets lynched (Plurality Lynch) I feel there isn't as much pressure or necessity to jump off a failing wagon and on a popular wagon, especially when I am pretty certain I'm sitting on scum with my vote. Vett is in a small group of people I'd lynch today so I won't lose any sleep over him hanging, but they're all under Kaboose, who's still at the top of my list.

But by all means, drum up support and lets see who jumps on the wagon and what reasons they provide. Information is always better than none and it will always make for great vote logic down the road in this game.

[ploben]

Eh, just recently with his interaction with talah. Kind of puts him in the same boat with taly in my mind. It's like this for me:

1) Kaboose
2a) taly
2b) odd
2c) vett

Unless one of those in the 2 group made some ridiculous scum slip, I wouldn't be voting on them D1.

[ploben]

Kaboose: I don't think you are. I'll look more at talah tomorrow but there's people who look worse than her at this point.

Taly: No, I will not do your job for you. I've been pretty open and clear about my reads so far this game. I have no problem working with you as town, if you're actually town, but I'm done spoon feeding you opinions.

[ploben]

Taly, I'm not trying to be mean but all I've seen you do so far in the 3 weeks (IRL) that we have been playing is go "What's your read here?" "What do you think about him/her/me?" "FEED ME FEED ME FEED ME" I don't mean to lecture because I would hate someone doing that to me, so I'm sorry if I'm being BM, but you need to start critically thinking about this game for yourself, digest what you see going on, and stand on your reads. I'm not standing here saying "Listen to me, I'm a good mafia player" because I don't think I am, but I'm at least trying to carry my own weight this game. Please do the same. Other wise it doesn't help town at all and it doesn't really put you in a town light.

I'm glad you know how the scum think better than I do...

This response shows me Kaboose is not critically thinking through this game and would rather sling a one liner at me about how I think as scum better than he does. This is one point in my case against Kaboose, his intent.

[ploben]

Well if I'm "playing with fire with this misrep" of your game, why wait until D2? Vote me now. I'm sure you might be able to drum up a vote or two and put me in the running for the D1 lynch.

[ploben]

odd what's your opinion on Talah?

Do you think that

vettrock

's lynch will be a mislynch? If so, why?

Was this directed at me? If so, then I think it as a good chance of being a scumlynch. I would rather lynch Kaboose, which I think is an even better chance, but vettrock's lack of actual content makes him a solid lynch for toDay.

????????? ?????????
Then why did you unvote Kaboose in 611 if you believe he's the better lynch?

[ploben]

A player doesn't need 7 votes to be lynched, it just takes a majority. You essentially caused a 2 vote swing by unvoting Kaboose and voting vett. So if you really believed Kaboose was the better lynch you could have just sat on it. Here was the VC right before your unvote/vote:

oddmusic (3): ChriVi, Pisskop, Talah
vettrock (3): Honey bee, GreyICE, Netherspite
Kaboose (2): oddmusic, ploben
Talah (2): davesaz, Kaboose
Not Voting (2): vettrock, taly

This was close enough where you didn't have to give up on any wagon, unless you really thought there was a better wagon, which you said there wasn't, Kaboose was the best lynch, yet you voted vett.

Votes > Words

[ploben]

A player doesn't need 7 votes to be lynched, it just takes a majority.

What I meant was that 7 votes automatically causes the lynch but 7 votes aren't necessary for the lynch at deadline, as long as someone is sitting with more votes than anyone else (or the first to reach that amount) that person will be lynched.

[ploben]

A player doesn't need 7 votes to be lynched, it just takes a majority. You essentially caused a 2 vote swing by unvoting Kaboose and voting vett. So if you really believed Kaboose was the better lynch you could have just sat on it. Here was the VC right before your unvote/vote:

oddmusic (3): ChriVi, Pisskop, Talah
vettrock (3): Honey bee, GreyICE, Netherspite
Kaboose (2): oddmusic, ploben
Talah (2): davesaz, Kaboose
Not Voting (2): vettrock, taly

This was close enough where you didn't have to give up on any wagon, unless you really thought there was a better wagon, which you said there wasn't, Kaboose was the best lynch, yet you voted vett.

Votes > Words

This is all true, however, at the time I was going to be the lynch. (I'd reached 3 votes before vett had). I don't know what Taly was going to do with his vote. I don't know what you were going to do with your vote. There were about 24 hours left in the Day. I decided that vettrock was scummy enough to lynch.

I'm not going to fall on my sword because I think Kaboose is a better lynch than vettrock, especially when vettrock is still very lynchable.

I had assumed I'd get scumread for saving my skin toMorrow if not toDay. I didn't expect to have to lead somebody by the hand to that conclusion.

Actually going back and re-reading this whole encounter, you fielding the Netherspite question instead of Kaboose (which I think it was to him), the vote switch, and the explanation, all points to a town-odd (OddTown...population you). That's all assuming vett flips scum and not town, otherwise, I think you're scum.

So from where I sit I am now convinced a vett lynch is beneficial:
a)We'll be lynching scum D1 and confirming Odd as town
OR
b)Trading off lynching town-vett but confirming odd-scum and Kaboose-scum (probably scum anyway, regardless of vett's alignment)

I'll be happy to explain this at the start of D2 (pending night survival).

VOTE: vettrock

[ploben]

Okay, my lunch break I'm going to explain exactly why vettrock committed one of the oldest scum tells on mafiascum, and how you most certainly could have lynched him by page 8 for a free scumflip.

I'd really like to see this before the deadline Grey. Please do everything you can to get this in under the wire.

[ploben]

No night kill? We got some paranoid mafia players along with the paranoid gun gun owners.

[ploben]

Well, I think we all should agree that

GreyICE

is the towniest town in this game at this point.
I don't consider bussing in his position viable strategy in the middle of D1.

Will post more of updated reads later.

I don't agree. Grey scumread vett the moment he stepped into the game and did make some good points about vett's lack of content. However, at the end of D1 Grey promised this God read in post 606 on vett that he never revealed pre-filp, which really bugs me. Now post-flip scum vett's posts are all now categorized scummy so it's much easier to look back and say "oh this is really scummy and that is really scummy" Hindsight is 20/20. Grey could have absolutely bussed vett, because vett was seemingly sinking fast.

VOTE: oddmusic

The best alternative to me. If I am alive tomorrow I can contribute more.

I dont think this clears odd. Oddwagon wasn't a counterwagon.

Odd is cleared for the simple fact that I believe him and I were on scum in Kaboose and in no universe does he then jump votes going from 1 scum to another and he's the 3rd scum. If he was scum, he would have absolutely fallen on his sword to bus Kaboose and leave a question mark on vett going into D2.

[ploben]

My case and why he was scum were these two posts in close succession:

Without flavor he votes. Dissapointed I am.

Sorry,
My vote for a random reason is.

First one on the list that I played with I have.

While there is some discussion going on. Taly get the award for most walls by a newbie. I think that is more a of a town reaction especially from a new player trying to figure things out, but I'm not ready to go much further than that. I'm disagree that since there is some discussion going on, we are really out of RVS. We need someone starting to lean scum unless we are going to figure it out of POE with all town reads and there isn't enough of them yet.

Well, you had that argument in the chamber ready to fire, which either means your being sincere or you did what I did when I rolled mafia in my first game, which was take notes and have arguments and full posts ready to go when I knew I was going to be pressed about something.

As an aside, RVS is the most information-rich stage of the game. I'm convinced you could lynch a minimum of two scum off the average RVS, assuming you don't get people not picking up their roles and other random BS.

I disagree that RVS is "the most information-rich stage of the game", that's a silly assumption. You can gleen information on reactions and opening statements and sometimes even use RVS posts from a player for late game comparison, but to say it's the most information-rich stage of the game...no way.

[ploben]

Oh, another reason odd's town:

VOTE: oddmusic

The best alternative to me. If I am alive tomorrow I can contribute more.

This is a scum trying to throw his buddy a lifeline.

In no world does floundering scum-vett 12 hours from deadline even come close to attempting to bus a scumbuddy. Thanks for townread vett. Let's move on.

VOTE: oddmusic

The best alternative to me. If I am alive tomorrow I can contribute more.

I dont think this clears odd. Oddwagon wasn't a counterwagon.

Odd was ABSOLUTLY the counterwagon:

Vote Count 1.19

With 12 alive it's 7 votes to Lynch.

Voting for:

Netherspite (0):
davesaz (0):
talah (2): davesaz, Kaboose
Honey bee (0):
GreyICE(0):
Pisskop(0):

vettrock (5): Honey bee, GreyICE, Netherspite, oddmusic, ploben

Kaboose (0):
oddmusic (5): ChriVi, Pisskop, Talah, Taly, vettrock
ploben (0):
ChriVi (0):
Taly (0):

Deadline has been reached,

vettrock

will be lynched.

Not voting (0):

[ploben]

pisskop: I have no idea what you're saying and I think a lot of that has to do with the way you post. Please connect the dots for me as to why you think odd is scum in light of vett's vote on him at the end of the day.

[ploben]

You're reading Vet's vote as a preplanned, strategic move towards wincon when its about survivalsim and a spur of the moment vote.

So you think vett in the spur of the moment bussed his scumbuddy (odd) by voting him?

[ploben]

Its not a 'bus' so to speak. It was a dying vote in the hopes of clearing him. imo.

Alright, this makes more sense. That's all you had to say. I just think your line of thinking is wrong though.

[ploben]

Complete newbie question: why are we assuming that everybody who was scum was on one of the two wagons?

Thanks Grey, but I was more asking ploben/pisskop/Grey since they're the ones that seem to be proceeding under that assumption.

I'm not and I never said I was.

Can you quote me where I said I was under the assumption that "everybody who was scum was on one of the two wagons"?

[ploben]

So looking back through the discussion, you never did make that assumption sorry, you were just part of the discussion. It's more pisskop and dave that have made that assumption (pisskop putting up his readslist by showing where they were voting between the two wagons) dave's 704.

And Grey...

Complete newbie question: why are we assuming that everybody who was scum was on one of the two wagons?

Kaboose is town for completely unrelated reasons.

Dave is town because he's being too much of a cute asshole after a day 1 scum lynch for this to be anything other than town elation.

It's not really that I'm assuming anything, they're just both deep in my town pile.

Of course my scum pile has 3 names in it currently, so like, yeah.

[ploben]

Dave?

So, assuming I'm any good at logic, and the scum didn't do something highly illogical just to mess with us, the other scum are Kaboose and Oddmusic.

Pedit: If odd was the counter wagon and town, then all 3 scum have to be on it. Corollary left to the students.

Can you explain? Those 2 posts contradict.

[ploben]

Storyteller

Prod Kaboose please

[ploben]

4 days, 12 hours?

[ploben]

Roger

[ploben]

I especially liked the part where you caught up. That was my favourite.

Thought you were ploben for some reason Kaboose.
Never mind, ignore me.

Is this you hinting you really want to hear my thoughts and where I stand at this point?

[ploben]

GreyICE we really want to like you but we need more actual content than one-liner "THERYS SCUMS GUYSI"

But then later...

Lets stick something in nice, bold letters:

oddmusic (5): ChriVi, Pisskop, Talah, Taly,

vettrock

If you think that Vettrock was the only red name there, you're playing the wrong game.

I like this.

VOTE: Pisskop

And when you set that all against the backdrop of...

Oh and oddmusic wagon is best wagon!

I just find it very amusing.

ChriVi, you want to humor us and maybe...I dunno...throw an explanation out?

[ploben]

Explanation for what?

Explanation for your vote. How about a read or two? Or are you just going to sheep everyone's else's reads and jump on wagons?

And no, I don't really do anything D1 because informationless days are boring as hell.

D2 is when I pay attention and start doing shit

... Not that I ever survive until D2 because I've been mislynched in 85% of my games (pretty sure that's a pretty accurate ratio)

When is that going to happen?

[ploben]

Taly has been the biggest question mark for me this game. Pisskop's 758 brings up a great point about Taly jumping around to the wagons, except vett, which the only suspicion that surfaces is if you want to draw the connection between a scumteam, which I think at this point might still be early to do and could really pigeon hole your thinking (as opposed to evaluating each player individually and independantly of other players). But if you look at Taly's entire body of work this game it isn't out the ordinary for Taly. He's had the long wall posts, the new player feel to his entire game, the questionnaire to vett, it just all seems really townie. I don't see any manipulation in his play to point to scum.

Then this...

Sorry, but don't separate me from the town in directly implying that I am

vettrocks

partner. If I were scum then bussing him would have avoided you guys' suspicions on me right now, which would benefit scum. Not town...

I stuck with my vote to lynch odd because I was more unsure of him, and thought that his flip would have provided more information.

I feel scum doesn't say things like that. Scum would take the hard line and be more firm in their vote so they don't project a wishy-washy opinion and therefor not feel they have to take responsibility in case of a mislynch.

I like pisskop, as stated above and since he came into the game. I'm also comparing dodgy's entrance to the game and the more I look at it the more I think I was wrong about dodgy having useless posts. I think he was town trying to catch up on the game. Taking that into consideration with pisskop's play, I think that slot and piskop is town.

[ploben]

Based on my last post (785) I still think Taly and pisskop are town.

If there was another scum on oddmusic on D1 that leaves ChriVi and Talah. Current votes on pisskop are GreyICE, Taly, davesa, ChriVi. That leaves ChriVi as the overlapping vote on both, and I'm not really townleaning on ChriVi with her D1 and D2 activity the same, which is unimpressive to say the least.

Talah has been leaning town all game for me so I'm not voting her wagon. Plus roll that in with her and Netherspite going at it last night and I see that as same alignment (town vs town not knowing each other OR scum vs scum bussing the hell out of each other). Logic: talah leaning town for me means Netherspite is also.

This leaves the 3rd wagon of davesaz, which so happens to have 2 of my town voting on. davesaz's got this scumhunting/reaction test thing in limbo and under wraps so I don't know what that will yield. I actually was keeping my eye out for something at the end of D1 and start of D2 but it hasn't really made the surface, but that makes me relate a little to what davesaz might be attempting. davesaz's also been on talah since D1 so his play hasn't changed. With no NK and scum daytalk that's something I was looking for in a scummy player, a change in play style D1 to D2.

This is going to be PoE in my mind in D2 so I'm sitting here with ChriVi and davesaz as candidates for my vote. One has a wagon and the other doesn't. Tell me why I'm right/wrong.

[ploben]

@ploben

What do you think about my points on

talah

?
Am I making a mountain out of molehill?
Because I seriously don't get her weird reads on

vettrock

.

The Short Answer: Yes, I think you're making a bigger deal than need be out of talah's use of labeling players.

The Long Answer: I think there is a difference in approach between the two of you when using labels and terminology like "null". Don't get me wrong, the object of the game is to be constantly evaluating and looking for other players' evaluations and then using those evaluations to see conflicting information to possibly catch scum. But I was in talah's boat on my vett read so I can really relate. I didn't really notice vett early and it took someone to mention his pretty useless posts before I went back and looked into him. That and the fact with odd's jump off Kaboose and on to Vett at the end of D1 to save his skin, I now had a pretty fool-proof thought process, through a lynch, to identify some people and clear up a question mark in my book (odd).

Again, breaking down and over-analysing is the name of this game but your issue with talah's nullscum read = top 3rd lynch is really not as big of an issue that I think you're making it out to be. I learned this from live mafia games: newb town (I'm not addressing anyone in particular) just wants to be right and have a 100% conviction before calling someone out or voting. In reality, this actually hurts town because that player either get's lynched for not having conviction or misses opportunities to jump on scum but they don't because they aren't reading 100% scum on someone. I'm not calling you newb, I'm just using it as an example. I think you're looking for the "perfect" reasoning and hard 100% scum read in players and talah is not. Talah is going off of less than 100% scum convictions to mold her lynch list.

[ploben]

Speaking of

ChriVi

, I find it terrible that we have almost no content from them to build some genuine read.
If I remember correctly they promised some better play D2 but I still don't see any of it.

Preaching to the choir. Gave ChriVi day pass D1 with promise of better play D2. Still no content. Would make for an interesting scumteam with 1 scum active and the other scum lurking.

[ploben]

And ChriVi is an hour away from being eligible for another prod. Is this lurking scum or bad town? Someone help me with this.

[ploben]

Alright, enough talk about it...

VOTE: ChriVi

[ploben]

Thank you Neth.

The cake is a lie.

I'm making a note here: Huge Success.

[ploben]

Let's try something. Those who are NOT voting Pisskop right now, could you give us reasons why he is town to you?

785

[ploben]

Obtuse!

I lol'ed.

[ploben]

...Chrivi needs reevaluating...

DING DING DING!

[ploben]

Wow, this game is going down the drain.

[ploben]

Wow, this game is going down the drain.

So what do you make of Kaboose's replaceout and chrivi's prodge?

Maybe I'm looking at it in hindsight but leading up to Kaboose's replacement you could tell he didn't give a shit and was maybe bored with the game.

Odd's replacement request pings me a little with his explination about leaving, but I'm townreading him because of his actions end of D1 and the vett scum flip.

ChriVi...nothing has changed in my mind about him/her/it/them.

[ploben]

Maybe I'm looking at it in hindsight but leading up to Kaboose's replacement you could tell he didn't give a shit and was maybe bored with the game.

He hasn't flipped, so which posts and why leading up to his replace give you this impression?

Actually, looking back at his recent ISO I don't know why I thought he didn't give a shit, there's nothing out of the ordinary about his tone or posts.

[ploben]

How am I blending in with town when everyone is looking at me because I think pisskop is town for threatening a self hammer in a spot where scum would not self hammer?

There is probably 1 in 1,000,000,000 situations where town self hammers. There many more situations where scum self hammers to make analyzing the wagon on them much harder.

Another Kaboose "logic" nugget.

[ploben]

Isn't that saying the same thing? You think he's town either way?

I don't think so. I don't know why I felt his tone was "Don't give a shit", maybe I was projecting. Looking back at his recent posts before replacing they look like someone who does give a shit.

I'm not convinced either way on his alignment now.

[ploben]

I'm voting ChrVi for being useless all game and promising better play. If ChriVi is so busy the replaced out, otherwise it's anti-town and we either lynch 2nd scum or get something from ChriVi by way of lynch and flip.

Kaboose was scummy to me with flawed logic and early D1 policy lynch pushing. With the replacement coming I can wait on voting that slot. Mainly because I'll be on vacation from the 11th to the 18th so I really need to park my vote where I think it counts. ChriVi is that parking spot.

[ploben]

Sorry for your loss Grey.

[ploben]

Spoiler: Cricket?

[ploben]

Well poop. I had him as newbie town.

Dropping this here, will be back later. Honey Bee is stupidly confirmed town, by the by.

People on Vett and Kaboose:

Honey bee

Vett Only:

GreyICE, Netherspite,

oddmusic,

ploben

Kaboose Only:

talah, , Taly, Pisskop, davesaz

Neither:

Netherspite, ChriVi,

Honey Bee stupidly confirmed town or bussed both scum partners?

[ploben]

This is his only post today? We all know Honey Bee isn't confirmed town, so why are you adding that as a suggestion to Grey? Plus, WHY are you giving the idea that HB is bussing both scum partners? It's possible, but why is THIS the ONLY thing you've said has caught my attention the past 30 pages?

I smell null-lurker. Do you have something to say for yourself? What are your reads?

Yeah...it's amazing what a vacation and 3 week days will do to your interest in a mafia forum game. I honestly care very little for this game any more, sorry. Bright side: we're 8 vs 1 now so the end is near.

I was trying to get some talk around Honey with the double buss theory but no one was interested so I didn't really care to follow up. Honey is probably town.

ChriVi is just shit town, it sucks because a ChriVi lynch is more of a policy lynch but it's got to go. So unless town is convinced of a better lynch today it might be better to rid us of ChriVi now before we get to like 5 vs 1 and we can't afford a mislynch lynch.

Everyone else is just making noise so ISOs and interactions between confirmed scum and the rest of us need to be looked at.

[ploben]

Oh.. I just don't recall you saying you were on vacation. Correct me if I'm wrong on this.

Who do you think is scum? And to follow up on what you were meaning with that conversation - what makes you think Honey might have bussed scum twice so far?

Vacation:

I'm voting ChrVi for being useless all game and promising better play. If ChriVi is so busy the replaced out, otherwise it's anti-town and we either lynch 2nd scum or get something from ChriVi by way of lynch and flip.

Kaboose was scummy to me with flawed logic and early D1 policy lynch pushing. With the replacement coming I can wait on voting that slot. Mainly because I'll be on vacation from the 11th to the 18th so I really need to park my vote where I think it counts. ChriVi is that parking spot.

The Honey thing was just another way to look at the VCA. The first thought in my head when I saw her on both scum for the votes was "maybe bus?" But I don't think the rest of her posts points to scummy play, so scratch Honey as the last scum.

ChriVi now doing this taly buddy thing is rubbing me the wrong way. Got to go.

VOTE: ChriVi

[ploben]

@Ploben

You think HB is most likely town as well?

If ChriVi flips town, who would you say is scum?

Yeah, I think it's safe to assume she been on both scum wagons as a townie. Would be silly to bus Kaboose on D2 already down a scum partner.

If ChriVi is town we will at least be able to use some of the reads ChriVi has made and know they are coming from town. That means neither then pisskop, but I'm still of the town-pisskop persuasion.

[ploben]

How exactly, is Pisskop town to you? I'm kind of on and off with him... He isn't really giving me an answer about his reads of Nether and Dave, other than he wants to lynch them.

I'm not a fan at all of meta but I've played one other game with pisskop and he was town that game and he's doing the same thing this game. I think he can be safely left alone for lynching for a couple nights.

[ploben]

Nether's writeup in 1741 and 1742 is fantastic in the fact that now a Nether flip after lynch reveals either:

A) Town win (scumNether)
OR
B) Lock in townNether's thoughts on scumChriVi or scumPisskop

I still think ChriVi is the lynch today for the simple reason on the completely inept play ChriVi exhibited D1 and D2 and now has all of a sudden changed play in D3 and gotten more serious. Why? Possibly because both of ChriVi's partners have been lynched back to back. Otherwise townChriVi could have just keep on trucking out the ridiculous D1 and D2 personality and be completely useless town and slide into a victory.

I've gone over the interaction with oddmusic and ChriVi to see if there is anything that stands out about the NK. Oddmusic was an early defender of ChriVi. They both butted heads about being "useless" in this game but nothing really became of it. That's about it. It could just simply be removing a pretty townie player or eliminating a spot that was going to be replaced. The former is more understandable than the latter.

[ploben]

Don't self hammer if you're town.

[ploben]

@ploben

We have a couple of players who are willing to hammer me so I don't see how can I survive.
Thus I'd prefer to die at specific moment of time once I'm finished with posting my thoughts rather than at some random moment when I still have something to say.

By this logic, how do you think that will help town?

[ploben]

If this is mafia's way of conceding, fine. I totally agree with the 21 IRL days to game days, silly.

If Nether is town, ChriVi needs to be insta-lynched tomorrow.

[ploben]

Damn. It was between HB and Taly last night. I thought I could pull it off. ChriVi was probably going to be next lynch and then maybe Dave? It would have been close but it was going to be a struggle.

First 4 games on this site, 4 mafia rolls. Insane. I can't wait to play town, lol.

[ploben]

Oh and N1 was Kaboose's idea to no kill. At first I wasn't sure about it but the confusion is caused was awesome. It's too bad my partners hung on back to back days.

[ploben]

Thank you all and thank you Storyteller for the mod.

[ploben]

Don't underestimate town's ability to eat itself alive.

[ploben]

To be fair talah I think I could have made it to the end in this game. I think I did fairly well in our newbie game, got the cop N1. I did have a normal game where mafia got lynched 3 days in a row.

This finish was the result of an unlucky/lucky shot in the night, other than that town was hungry for town blood.

[ploben]

I'm fine with it Storyteller.