Open 588 Pick Your Poison -- Game Over

[TellTaleHeart]

Please, everybody, don't welcome me all at once. :S

[TellTaleHeart]

VOTE: ika
I would also vote Nacho.

[TellTaleHeart]

The push on NJAC and the defense of ika were extremely strained and absolutely terrible.

[TellTaleHeart]

A quick lead-off:
If anyone gives me attitude about how ika quick-hammering isn't a scumtell,

I'm going to hate your fucking guts

. That's all well and good that hammering is part of his meta. However, that's not what makes ika scum. He has a pretty clearly established meta with regards to activity and he's fairly easy to read just from that. His lurking and detachment from the game fit his scum meta to a T. ika is scum here.

[TellTaleHeart]

Care to provide a little analysis with all that information?

*tugs at sleeve*

A Rough VC Study

NJAC

- 6 - Always Mafia, Nachomamma8, Albert B. Rampage,

Sakura Hana

,

pisskop

, ika
ika - 4 - Drezi, Lalendra,

NJAC

, House

Metalcyanide

- 7 -

SIR CYANIDE

, Drezi,

Sakura Hana

, House,

pisskop

, Albert B. Rampage, ika
ika - 4 - VictorDeAngelo, Lalendra, Riabi,

Metalcyanide

Sakura Hana - 1 -

NJAC

Not Voting: Nachomamma8

The two lynch wagons from Days 1 and 2 are roughly the same. Four names show up on both those wagons (the majority). Contrast this to the ika counterwagon. The only name in common between the two days is Lalendra. Two different sets of people tried, and failed, to lynch ika on Days 1 and 2. You could argue that the scum team just rotated and different scum pushed the ika wagon, but I think that's unlikely and I think those wagon compositions are quite town.

[TellTaleHeart]

Hey, TTH where'd you go?

I take a while to type posts just because of my writing style. Please be patient.

[TellTaleHeart]

ika's quick-hammering isn't a scumtell.

If he did something else that you find scummy, bring that up. Don't try to obfuscate the matter with preemptively arguing over whether something is a scumtell that you're not using to base your read off of anyway.

It relevant because that was the crux of Nacho's defense and I was going ahead and undermining it.

[TellTaleHeart]

Why are you ignoring my question?

Quit it. I'm not playing

this

game. It's

extremely

annoying.

I've still got quite a few topics to talk about from 40 pages of game. Namely: ika's predecessors, Nacho, and ABR.

You don't get to micromanage, Drezi. Give me a little time.

[TellTaleHeart]

Maybe and maybe not. Riabi's also possible.

[TellTaleHeart]

If you read the post you quoted, you have seen the names.

[TellTaleHeart]

Vote: Drezi

Spoiler:

[TellTaleHeart]

ABR and Riabi maaaybe Nacho

That's. Exactly. What. I. Said! ACK!

[TellTaleHeart]

Correction: If you flip Riabi and Nacho.

Still, you're not paying attention, Drezi.

[TellTaleHeart]

pisskop was likely the vig kill. Why do you say that?

[TellTaleHeart]

Im a HE, as stated next to every post I make, shows how prepared and attentively you made your case.

You're one to talk!

*mrph*

[TellTaleHeart]

If I'm scum to you because I'm not giving you instant gratification, then I have nothing more to say to you.

[TellTaleHeart]

3 votes away! Jiminy jillikers, that means scum could quickhammer!







Counting is hard.

[TellTaleHeart]

You're scum because of your predecessor's play, because you tried to push an easy win on ika with your scumbuddy Riabi right off the gates putting him 3 votes away from a lynch and because you couldn't answer a simple question that would show that at least you're seriously convinced that you're voting scum in MyLo.

Before anyone else gets a stick up their butt about "MyLo" I'm going to preempt that by saying, "So what?" Scum can't quickhammer because there's a vigilante with another shot at play. Arguments about voting cautiously or being afraid of quickhammers here are dumb.

[TellTaleHeart]

Yes theoretically it means that a prepared scumteam could quickhammer

That would necessitate me not being on it.

*sigh*

I'm already annoyed.

[TellTaleHeart]

Yes, and that's what you're using as a reason for me being scum.

[TellTaleHeart]

That would necessitate me not being on it.

But I'm glad that you're automatically thinking of yourself as scum

...

I have no words.

[TellTaleHeart]

Just a fun fact, and you're strawmanning again.

Your whole argument is "You're not being cautious enough in MYLO." Like "MYLO" is some magical time where I

have

to have the scum team

really

nailed down before I can vote. I don't.

[TellTaleHeart]

(ika, Riabi, Nacho) or (ika, ABR, Nacho) scum teams make lots of sense, so your "PoE" is already flawed.

[TellTaleHeart]

A quick lead-off:
If anyone gives me attitude about how ika quick-hammering isn't a scumtell,

I'm going to hate your fucking guts

. That's all well and good that hammering is part of his meta. However, that's not what makes ika scum. He has a pretty clearly established meta with regards to activity and he's fairly easy to read just from that. His lurking and detachment from the game fit his scum meta to a T. ika is scum here.

Again, it seems like you're jumping the gun pretty hard when Ika has had the chance to post for four days total. I might be misinformed about how dramatic the scum/town posting ratios are, but even furcolow in his glory days wasn't an instant death read after four days of k ow posting.

ika replaced in on February 19th. That was 12 days ago. Subtracting the 4 days the game was in night phase, that still leaves 8 days. Four posts in 8 days is some heavy duty lurking.

[TellTaleHeart]

I thought Dooku was pretty scummy. You disagree?

[TellTaleHeart]

And before the ika shenanigans I was townreading Dooku.

Of course you were.

[TellTaleHeart]

Ok, I think all this talk of ika being the vig is going to lose the game for town. So, I'm just going to come out with it... I'm the Vig. I killed pisskop last night, and for that, I'm sorry. I overthought my kill. My thinking was that I've been the most vocal about getting the dukoo/ika slot killed, if I shoot them, it will be easy to figure out it's me. But based on his D2 interactions with ika, I was sure he was scum (so much for being sure). In retrospect, I think him saying that he thought I was scum made me suspect him too much. Then, I never considered that my decision would make ika look like the vig (which I agree now that it does).

I'm sorry for messing that shot up so terribly. I know I really put us in a tight spot. But, I feel like we're going to be in even a tighter slot if people keep thinking that ika is the vig.

You stole my thunder! >:(

[TellTaleHeart]

(That's not a counterclaim, I was flicking through the game this morning and I thought Riabi was the vig and was going to say something about it.)

[TellTaleHeart]

I did not notice that until Drezi pointed it out. That seems like a pretty obvious scum slip to me.

unvote, vote Riabi

o_O

How so?

[TellTaleHeart]

(House, I know you're waiting on me. I'm working on it.)

[TellTaleHeart]

"I thought Dooku was scummy. I thought Dooku's replace-out was scummy. I think the D1 hammer was scummy, and I think the D2 hammer is scummy. I've thought that slot was scummy from the get-go, I still do, and to be completely honest, your defense of that slot is confusing to me."
I screwed up the quote but THIS. THIS RIGHT HERE.

I don't know that there's anything that can convince me that slot is not scum, at this point.

VOTE: ika

I did not notice that until Drezi pointed it out. That seems like a pretty obvious scum slip to me.

unvote, vote Riabi

[TellTaleHeart]

~Whistles~
Nobody Special, can you confirm that everyone picked up the private message you sent out informing everyone of Day 3 start?

[TellTaleHeart]

what do you think about ika being scum?

Waiting for a case that doesn't revolve around him quickhammering.

That's not a scumtell for ika. That's an ikatell.

No, but lurking is a scumtell for ika. He's lurking right now.

[TellTaleHeart]

VOTE: ika

cuz TTH is samrt.

She's brought up this point before. Why didn't you vote then?

Why aren't you voting him now?

[TellTaleHeart]

Is Lalendra scum?

[TellTaleHeart]

No, no, no!
You were doing just fine!

[TellTaleHeart]

~Whistles~
Nobody Special, can you confirm that everyone picked up the private message you sent out informing everyone of Day 3 start?

As of this moment, everyone has.

Votecount incoming, sorry for the delay.

I need Nacho.

I don't think Drezi is scum.

But why? Drezi can definitely be scum. There are some town posts but what before then?

ABR, this proves ika knows the game is going but was avoiding the thread. The two most recent posts were just responses to prods, nothing more. You know damn good and well ika lurks as scum and you want to characterize it as a "Jesus take the wheel" wagon?!

Why?

Would you lynch Lalendra today?

[TellTaleHeart]

Drezi is a crap push, ABR, and I'm betting you know that too. His reasoning is derptacular, but it's all there and fleshed out and is internally consistent in all its glorious wrongness.

I think it's Lalendra, ABR, and ika.

[TellTaleHeart]

That was before she jumped ship from the ika wagon onto a "scum slip" that doesn't exist.

[TellTaleHeart]

Alright-y then.

[TellTaleHeart]

This is your daily reminder that ika would be posting if he were town. He's still lurking.

[TellTaleHeart]

I'm pointing out all this crap about these two and they don't even make an attempt at giving an explanation just brush the issues away, trying to redirect attention to other stuff, or ignoring it completely. What does that tell you.

It tells you that I'm working from a constant.

ika is scum. Period. Count Dooku was scummy, as was Reminiscence. The slot's been the counterwagon to

not one, but two

town mislynches. ika is not that difficult of a read; he is a

lot

more participative as town. The evidence is overwhelming, and I would bet my (game) life on ika being scum.

My method for looking at associatives right now is to see who balks at voting ika. I know it's not entirely rational, but I also know it's not that important right now. I'm fighting an uphill battle where I either have to force scum to bus or get the town to consensus, both of which are daunting tasks.

[TellTaleHeart]

I'm not trying to agree it's not scummy lol. But it's still wifom, and it should have been cleared before MyLo. Here I prefer to act on normal reads first.

"Normal read"? As opposed to what? ika is a normal read. Even disregarding

everything

about his predecessors and the quickhammers, ika's play here is 100% his scumgame.

[TellTaleHeart]

How do you feel about an ika, Lalendra, Drezi team?

I'm thinking I kinda like it.

I think Drezi is a trap scum read because he is so damn stubborn. Judging by his relatively new join date, he likely just doesn't

know

ika's meta and therefore, the alarmist "the whole scumteam is pushing ika" angle actually makes a bit of sense.

I think ABR is a busser here.

[TellTaleHeart]

I'm not

entirely

sure on Nacho. He definitely ended up on the wrong side of the fence with the NJAC and ika wagons yesterday, which is what I was initially scumreading him for.

I have a light townread on him now because I would expect him to go ahead and hammer if he was bussing ika, but that point is kind of WIFOM-y.

[TellTaleHeart]

ika is a lettuce. I really hate his playstyle whether town or scum. It's really not fun to vote for someone, leave the site and you come back and ika hammered confirmed town that could have made scum waste an NK and kept another confirmed town in the game.

ika has butchered a lot of potential evidence here, but I'm going to parse what I can. Drezi. Looking back, I'm going to say that I'm suspicious of her questions. She's not taking responsibility for finding scum at all. I don't warm up to little helper types who siphon off proactive players, it looks like she has ulterior motives. I have a solid townread on Nacho because he's completely isolated himself with the way he's been acting yesterday. I don't see scum acting so independently, and being that badly wrong, because if he was scum, he would know exactly who the scum is and not be so blatantly bad. He used to be a good player a few years ago, now he quotes from 50 shades of gray and is more wrong than right. ika could be acting extremely stupid and screwing us over. I've seen him quickhammer on Day 1 as town before, and at least another instance where he hammered like that. I've also seen him do it as scum once and we should have policy lynched him right then and there. He's on my blacklist after this game. House has echoed my thoughts pretty accurately in the game and I see him as town. Lalendra and Telltaleheart aren't townreads. I like TTH's posting today, but not her slot before. Lalendra I think is scum based on similar reasoning to Drezi. Riabi is a question mark.

The cognitive dissonance from characterizing ika as a "Jesus take the wheel" lynch and then voting him because "we can't win with him in LYLO."

[TellTaleHeart]

Oh, wow. My reason for town reading Drezi just vaporized... :S

[TellTaleHeart]

This is problematic. :\

[TellTaleHeart]

Oh, wow. My reason for town reading Drezi just vaporized... :S

Well if you thought Drezi was the IC, what in the world did you make of my recent posts regarding you and why did you not have anything to say about them? I all but outed you as the IC.

Well it was lost on me.
I thought Drezi was the last unclaimed town special from Post 1179

[TellTaleHeart]

I don't see a hammer in any of those three posts...

[TellTaleHeart]

Oh, wow. My reason for town reading Drezi just vaporized... :S

Read him again: I'm happy to outline reasons for townreading him in about 5 hours when I'm home and getting ready for work, but I sincerely sincerely doubt that he's scum here.

I thought he was more likely to be town than not just based on the raw stubbornness, but being the town special would have sealed the deal.

After ika flips scum, I suggest an ABR vig kill.

[TellTaleHeart]

After ika flips scum, I suggest an ABR vig kill.

Why ABR over Lal?

Because ABR's progression on the ika read is really jagged and doesn't make sense.

[TellTaleHeart]

I don't see a hammer in any of those three posts...

You don't want a town case on Drezi?

Not really. I was just kind of taken aback that I was wrong on the whole town special thing.

[TellTaleHeart]

Meanwhile, Nacho continues dragging his feet on that ika hammer.

[TellTaleHeart]

for those who think I am scum, if you have questions, ask them. I will answer them to the best of my ability.

Who's scum?

[TellTaleHeart]

I'm here! Gathering thoughts.

[TellTaleHeart]

I also think it's Nacho mostly from ABR's approach to the game early yesterday.

[TellTaleHeart]

ABR's strategy early Day 2 involved a lot of effort on getting Lalendra lynched

and

shielding ika.

Spoiler:

Unvote, vote Lalendra

Lynch Lalendra or we might as well resign right here.

This game has been letdown after letdown. I can't even imagine us winning this. Nobody listens. People rush to bandwagon without thinking. Just stop and think for a moment, how is Lalendra town? That vote on Riabi is scummy as hell. She's scum.

Lynching ika today is like saying "Jesus take the wheel". I'm not about that plan.

ABR sticking his neck out for a scumbuddy in an undoubtedly weak position and then bussing the other one doesn't make much sense from a strategic standpoint.

I think the most likely strategy ABR was pursuing was going for broke and keeping his entire team intact.

VOTE: Nacho

[TellTaleHeart]

I want to let TTH and Riabi read Nacho's replies.

I see the phrase "cool beans" so it's already not getting off to a good start.

[TellTaleHeart]

sure i would be more hey lalendra is the last scum *case here* if i was as confident in that as i was at the end of the day

You voted Lalendra immediately (accompanied with "pew pew pew" noises) and haven't moved your vote since. Post 1458 doesn't look like a post made by a man in a confidence crisis.

[TellTaleHeart]

TTH what on earth are you doing this game day?

Voting scum.

What have you been doing all game besides avoiding that very thing?

[TellTaleHeart]

You hunted ika and ABR?

Could've fooled me.

[TellTaleHeart]

As soon as the Lalendra case fell on its ass, you moved on.

I'm not posturing. The paper trail from the two flipped scum lead straight back to you.

[TellTaleHeart]

What?

[TellTaleHeart]

The only time you actually started showing an interest in what was going on was when you were suspected. that's called survivalism.

Bullshit. I had to claw against a baffling amount of resistance to get that ika lynch and I recall having to hound you to drop that goddamn hammer.

[TellTaleHeart]

As soon as the Lalendra case fell on its ass, you moved on.

I'm not posturing. The paper trail from the two flipped scum lead straight back to you.

And again, how so? Because ABR sought out interaction with me? Because I was wrong on Ika Day 2? Neither of these things seem particularly convincing, but you're pushing them like they're the gospel because you bussed the shit out of both scumpartners and don't need to worry about pushing passable arguments anymore.

Luckily, I don't have to convince you that you're scum.

[TellTaleHeart]

The only time you actually started showing an interest in what was going on was when you were suspected. that's called survivalism.

Bullshit. I had to claw against a baffling amount of resistance to get that ika lynch and I recall having to hound you to drop that goddamn hammer.

This game day, TTH. You needing the Ika lynch as quickly as you needed it yesterday also makes sense, in retrospect: you wanted to take time away from Riabi so that he'd make a worse vig shot and you'd only need one mislynch as opposed to two.

I was trying to get Riabi to make the worst vig shot, so I told him to vig my buddy.

Alright-y. ^_^

[TellTaleHeart]

what is this even supposed to mean???

It means you're scum who's out of options and you're now hosed. Sorry.

[TellTaleHeart]

You would have had a better rebuttal if you just said "no u nacho".

No, pointing out that your theory is completely nonsensical is better.

[TellTaleHeart]

As opposed to you, who avoided interacting with ABR in any meaningful way and pushed a trumped-up case on ika when the meta tell was actually insanely simple.

[TellTaleHeart]

You would have had a better rebuttal if you just said "no u nacho".

No, pointing out that your theory is completely nonsensical is better.

Then why aren't you doing this in any way shape or form?

You're trying to generate noise right now and it's the only way for you to have a snowballs chance in hell of winning.

I'm depriving you of that now because the purpose of posts this game have been to lynch scum and yours have been to look good.
Bye! ^_^/~

[TellTaleHeart]

Actually, I lied. I'm going to repost these since I know Nacho will try to bury them will bullshit.

Alright, so with ika being confirmed scum, looking at the overall game, I think Nacho is the last scum.

D2 we had Nacho coming in and trashing the ika wagon, and starting the counter on NJAC, ABR joined, and it gained heat from that point.

The saddest reality is that the vote I liked most on that wagon was ABR because he was honest about it and didn't dress it up with bullshit.

My impression at the time was that he simply went ahead to save a scumbuddy, simply because he could afford to do so, so whynot? He also gave a soft townread to ABR along the way, because again, at that point in time, it was a perfectly safe and neutral thing to do.

D3 he still liked my proposed ika!vig possibility, and tried to avoid going down the ika lynch way, after ABR introduced the Lalendra angle, Nacho was also asking around about Lalendra, if we thought she could be scum etc.

I need Nacho.

I don't think Drezi is scum.

But why? Drezi can definitely be scum. There are some town posts but what before then?

This looks like ABR to a scumbuddy being like "yo, we could def get Drezi lynched, you high mate?"

It was right after this, that ABR abandoned pushing Lal/me and voted ika, and afterwards Nacho made 1359 and started leaning towards and ika lynch too, him dropping the Lal angle aswell. This was where they decided that "well k, we bus". Nacho was also a bit too confident in my being town tbh, I think he wanted to have me as someone who'd vote someone else over him in the end.
He started this day on a tone that looked like "game solved ladies and gentlemen, vote away" but I haven't actually seen a case on Lalendra from him last day either, he just sortof agreed that yeah she's prob scum guys.


Also ika+Lalendra just doesn't feel right to me. If you look at ABR+ika interactions, we see that D1 acryon (ABR) pushed Dooku (ika) over that chatching up thing, probably wanted to get in some distancing, but it exploded. He still wasn't voting Dooku, ABR later voted him, but quickly changed his mind and jumped on the town wagon instead.
D2 he voted ika again, and after Nacho made the push on NJAC, ABR left the bussing wagon once again, and took the opportunity to vote town. D3 he tried to push me/Lal before going for ika. This is along the lines of what scum bussing would look like.

Lalendra on the other hand voted ika D1, voted him D2, voted him D3 and kept the vote and scumread pretty consistently ending every day there. Also we had ABR pushing me/Lalendra at first, and he only decided to bus when that angle didn't prove fruitful. I think at first he tried to get town lynched, and only resorted to bussing after that didn't work out.
Of course Lal could be scum and it just so happened that she never had to move her vote because someone else got lynched always, and it could be that Nacho just got it wrong, and defended ika D2 and happened to give ABR a soft-town, and they happened to shift their push to ika together by chance, but well it's too many assumptions and coincidences for my taste.

All in all, I think the whole game looks straightforward and makes most sense with Nacho!scum.

ABR's strategy early Day 2 involved a lot of effort on getting Lalendra lynched

and

shielding ika.

Spoiler:

Unvote, vote Lalendra

Lynch Lalendra or we might as well resign right here.

This game has been letdown after letdown. I can't even imagine us winning this. Nobody listens. People rush to bandwagon without thinking. Just stop and think for a moment, how is Lalendra town? That vote on Riabi is scummy as hell. She's scum.

Lynching ika today is like saying "Jesus take the wheel". I'm not about that plan.

ABR sticking his neck out for a scumbuddy in an undoubtedly weak position and then bussing the other one doesn't make much sense from a strategic standpoint.

I think the most likely strategy ABR was pursuing was going for broke and keeping his entire team intact.

VOTE: Nacho

[TellTaleHeart]

Yay! I didn't screw my team over. ^_^

[TellTaleHeart]

yay \o/

I'm sorry I snapped at you.
I was so frustrated.