Open 598: GAME OVER

[Antihero]

has sthar figured out a way to break the setup yet?

[Antihero]

bleh, at first blush there really isn't. it's just a really fucking swingy set-up. optimal strategy for all town is to target other town.

doing circle targeting would keep scum from using the pgo. maybe worth thinking about.

[Antihero]

first two pages alone
VOTE: newbie

voting ika then asking for reasons from someone else was kind of off and he's maintaining an aloofness that's REALLY off

[Antihero]

also, i have a "fuck this" townread on lane and am now not reading his posts any more

[Antihero]

Hey Anti,

You replaced into a scum slot.

Discuss.

nope.jpg

i'm guessing this amateur hour brought to you by notty?

[Antihero]

Hey I haven't read anything but

I believe optimal strategy is to plan out our visits tonight and to have two players visiting different people.

Player A and B visits Player X
Player C and D visits Player Y
Player E and F visits Player Z
Player G and H visits Player ?
Player I and J visits Player !

This prevents PGOs from activating without confirming them as scum and allows cop to get reports relatively safely.

It also may be optimal to no lynch and then do that twice?

see, that's what i was thinking

[Antihero]

VOTE: Newbie

this guy gets it

[Antihero]

jeanne doesn't seem to have a problem w/ getting scum role pm's. http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=61488

so if you have a problem w/ me calling you amateurish, then maybe make arguments that have legs to stand on

[Antihero]

74 posts in a 33 page game?

that's not lurker scum

[Antihero]

oh the hydra is some newb and bbt. thought it was some newb and notty for some reason. my mistake.

[Antihero]

ooooohhhhhhhh, it's bellaphant. THAT bella.
(there's another user on here named "bella")

hm....

[Antihero]

Also, there are players in this game with more posts than that by page 15, so it's not exactly prolfic

-some newb.

sassy

[Antihero]

My pool is {YGS, Newbie, Percival}

agree on bb and lane being townreads. add ika to the mix. and the newb who's name starts with a p that i forgot already.

my lynchpool is more along the lines of [newbie, YGS]

[Antihero]

the only thing newbie has here is the benefit of being an articulate person in the middle of inarticulate people, spam posters, lemmings, and miscommunicators.

the nitpicking at lane about voting ika/YGS at the beginning didn't really have that much to it. the "scumreads are poisoning such-and-such wagon" is a really clunky argument, lacks nuance, and is pretty easy to latch onto with a newbie who will just flail when presented with it.
the reads list in Post 261 is really bleh-worthy at best. while not ALL of them are lurkers, they're pretty low-impact players and mostly targets of convenience. GC's a kind-of-sort-of exception but that one's unexplained and a sheep of another player so it's kind of a wash.

[Antihero]

Town read on Persivul and scum-read on us need explaining.

~BBT

perseus has a really sledge-hammerish, black-and-white, newbtown approach to the game that i pick up on gut feel
Post 292 is a good example of what i'm talking about

[Antihero]

What is your read on GC Anti?

~BBT

gonna' end up being a poe read. i kind of started skimming over his posts on my first once-over and i don't really want to bother since last game was so wearing. but i think the other town are doing a pretty good job of making themselves obvious so i'm not really going to worry about it.

[Antihero]

the only thing newbie has here is the benefit of being an articulate person in the middle of inarticulate people, spam posters, lemmings, and miscommunicators.

/pre-empting

before anyone gets pissy w/ me, i'll have you know that yes, i am an asshole.

this game has a very newbie game feel to it. people are basing scumreads on personality conflict (even though they won't admit it) and wagons are forming one at a time.

i'm not judging. just saying how it is.

[Antihero]

town list:
anti
ika
bbmolla
lane
percival
shar

ayone outside of that is in POE zone

prefrence of lynch:
YGS/Nebie, GC, ZZZX

yep, pretty much this

[Antihero]

Explain scum read Anti?
Can you read GC (or even our comments re:GC) and then give a read on him please.
~BBT

i will if i get the chance but that may or may not happen

honestly, my strategy here is:
>collect my townreads (p. much overlaps w/ ika's townreads above)
>windmill slam through a lynch in the [not town] pool
????
>profit

i think i have enough decent townreads to be able to do that.

intuition tells me newbie is the most likely not to be town for reasons i've already talked about. unless you can actually put into ~words~ why newbie is town, sheep me. otherwise, you're just clogging up the game with bullshit, which is likely to do more damage because the gamestate is going to want to inherently be more constipated anyway (even number of players)

[Antihero]

@ika:

perseus has a really sledge-hammerish, black-and-white,

newbtown

newbscum

approach to the game that i pick up on gut feel

I basically came to the opposite conclusion as Anti on the same factual basis.

...just like what-is-swag ended up being newbscum, RIGHT?

[Antihero]

That sounds like something I should remember, but honestly I don't remember swag at all.

he was the guy that posted like a meth addict and said anything that drifted across his subconscious

[Antihero]

Well are we YGSing or Newbieing?

newbie

now hop on

[Antihero]

We're doing neither GC.

~BBT

these aren't ~words~
these are ~turds~

[Antihero]

hm... i didn't see 312 before

yeah.... that looks pretty bad :S

[Antihero]

VOTE: green crayons

lolz

[Antihero]

Jeanne11 is comical "failed to pick up PM" scum.
^^^^that's a pretty shitty reason to scumread a slot

[Antihero]

oh, i get it

huehuehuheuheuheuheuheuheuehuehuehue

[Antihero]

Also, "running away from scum role" is not shitty?

that's VERY shitty unless you have precedence for that particular person not liking scum and that person didn't site flake

[Antihero]

yeah, this vote doesn't quite tickle my funny bone like a newbie one does
sry, bbt

VOTE: newbie

[Antihero]

I would still love an explanation on how I'm being aloof.

there isn't one

[Antihero]

You're voting me for being "aloof" when that's a bunch of bs. GC's reads list was obviously towing the line. The only one he was "sure" of was YGS because *surprise/surprise* he was already pushing him and had his vote on him.

towing what line?

[Antihero]

gc's surliness is (once again) making this a fucking headache

[Antihero]

gc's surliness is (once again) making this a fucking headache

For a self proclaimed asshole, you whine about other assholes way too much.

asshole =/= hard to read

[Antihero]

Newbie never said that she was suspecting players because of their low post content.

no, but that's what i was thinking

the overall point is that they're targets of convenience (as opposed to legit reads). getting hung up on semantics and nitpicking at the wording is absurd

[Antihero]

LMAO. All of the sudden the other half of the tag team shows up. (Not that I'm saying GC is scum, just that you two had common personal interests in targeting me.)

Are you going to answer my question about the arguments against me that oh so compelled you to place a vote? And you don't see GC's actions as scummy?

why are you scumreading sthar?

[Antihero]

yeah, it's you.

bottom line: you're accusing p-thing of a strawman when none exists.

[Antihero]

i'm p sure sthar's middle name is "unnecessarily aggressive"

[Antihero]

How are they targets of convenience? I suspected ika from the beginning. That's why he was the first person outside of RVS that I placed a vote on. I gave my reasoning for Persivul + his recent scummy behavior. It's why I had my vote on him before switching to GC. And GC was/is obviously one of the more active players.

yeah...

ika's not a VI exactly, but he's a guy that tends to draw a lot of fire for various reasons. fortunately he's also absurdly easy to read and gets even easier as time goes on. if he doesn't fall into lurkaderp apathy mode, he's town. like here.

scum like to go after ika early game because he sometimes says "politically incorrect" things and it's pretty easy to paint his trolling as having some sort of scummy intent because that's how it looks to ppl who don't know him.

i know better, though.

[Antihero]

assuming he's town (or, fuck, even if he's scum) GC is a pretty conservative addition to the list because he hasn't exactly towned it up. so...yeah... no cookie for you there.

[Antihero]

In other words, neither my ika or GC reads had anything to do with low performance. You both just assumed.

i guess "low performance" isn't EXACTLY the right word

how about:
>conservative targets
>non-controversial targets

couple that with the complete absence of sound reasoning and it's a scum reads list

[Antihero]

now... the complete lack of setup spec (which is sthar's thing) is kind of concerning as is lack of commentary on night action strategy when several people (including myself) have brought it up.

[Antihero]

nope, wait a second, i was wrong

@BB- the coordination required by your plan limits it's effectiveness as a deterrent to scum. They will know if they can use their shots to autowin, town will not. I am not okay with that. Also, under no circumstances should JK out on a single blocked kill. That's insane.

i'm going to have to go back to the full context of this conversation.

[Antihero]

you don't need to sell me a bb townread
you need to sell me an sthar townread

[Antihero]

Hey I haven't read anything but

I believe optimal strategy is to plan out our visits tonight and to have two players visiting different people.

Player A and B visits Player C
Player C and D visits Player E
Player E and F visits Player G
Player G and H visits Player I
Player I and J visits Player A

This prevents PGOs from activating without confirming them as scum and allows cop to get reports relatively safely.

It also may be optimal to no lynch and then do that twice?

@BB- the coordination required by your plan limits it's effectiveness as a deterrent to scum. They will know if they can use their shots to autowin, town will not. I am not okay with that. Also, under no circumstances should JK out on a single blocked kill. That's insane.

under bbmolla's original plan, the absolute MAXIMUM number of town scum could possibly take out is 5. that's not enough for an autowin assuming a no-lynch. in this case, activating pgo's gives scum more kills, but at the trade-off of narrowing the lynch pool considerably. that's a pretty strong deterrent.

[Antihero]

...wow, what the fuck? is sthar awake?

optimum strategy: quick no-lynch, follow bbmolla's scheme. makes scum kill at random and gives the cop enough cover to pretty much get a free investigation without having to worry about pgo's, which scum couldn't use without outing themselves.

that took me... 3 minutes to think of.

[Antihero]

NOW SERVING: WAFFLES AP-STYLE



ORDER UP

VOTE: sthar

[Antihero]

yeah, i know it.

whether or not you knew it at the time, you were right about sthar before, just not for the right reasons. you can rectify this situation by voting him.

[Antihero]

you're a bad kisser

[Antihero]

anti vote newbie so i can hammer and be happy

my thumb is stuck up my own ass

VOTE: newbie

[Antihero]

Came for the Anti sheep, currently staying because I'm finding the sthar push bad. Trying to determine basis of bad push.

no game is complete without me getting freaky with sthar

get over it

[Antihero]

Was talking in reference to Newbie.

Get over yourself.

<3

NO, I AM THE CENTER OF EVERYONE'S UNIVERSE.

EVERYONE WILL BASK IN MY GREATNESS.

[Antihero]

oh, ika

Why'd you have to do something so scummy?

hammering is ika's thing. it's not scummy

[Antihero]

'mkay so i might have been wrong on persifjdksla;f;lkdsajflkd;samflea;smifosa what's his face

[Antihero]

newbie's flip + bbmolla's NK

[Antihero]

Anti, thoughts on ika?

VOTE: ika

is this bbt?

[Antihero]

it is fucking bbt

VOTE: you got schooled

[Antihero]

right after white flag

you got some balls

[Antihero]

ika's pretty obviously town and he's AGAIN your go-to push

nope, not getting away with it this time

[Antihero]

no, not a bit.

[Antihero]

Spoiler: not game related

kind of curious, how do bbt and bella know each other?

[Antihero]

Anti

I followed you

You were wrong

Pay me back, holmes

I ALREADY SAID I MIGHT HAVE BEEN WRONG

WHAT DO YOU WANT FROM ME

MUST I GET DOWN ON MY KNEES?

[Antihero]

@Anti, we played an Open together.

i never pegged you for a hydra whore

[Antihero]

This is the first one I have ever done.

and it's with someone you only have 1 game with?

psh, i'm more exclusive with my hydras

that's why i have 8 of them

[Antihero]

VOTE: persival

lol

[Antihero]

it's sthar/perv

gg

[Antihero]

because he refused to suspect Persiv, then suspected Persiv based off of NK analysis

i didn't suspect perv, then a nightkill happened and i suspected him based on it

AFTER it happened!?

GASP

[Antihero]

ika is still the most obvtown of obvtown

bbt just has his fist up his own ass

sthar's mega derp on the setup spec + the recent empty prod for content seals the deal for me

[Antihero]

but I can totally see Anti saying:

Let's kill BB because he suspects Persiv, net good for scum
Then I will point out suspicious NK, good for me
If you get a wagon, I have a reason to vote you, but you'll just claim cop

only someone who's never seen my scum game could give me this much credit

[Antihero]

unfortunately, no

[Antihero]

And you should be able to figure out when I'm just busy. It's not hard.

cutting you off right now because it has nothing to do with that

anti can we lynch YGS tommorow?

no, we're lynching sthar

[Antihero]

VOTE: sthar

[Antihero]

ika votes are stupid, hold on a sec

[Antihero]

HOLY FUCK

THIS IS NOT SCUM IKA
THIS IS NOT SCUM IKA
THIS IS NOT SCUM IKA
THIS IS NOT SCUM IKA
THIS IS NOT SCUM IKA
THIS IS NOT SCUM IKA
THIS IS NOT SCUM IKA
THIS IS NOT SCUM IKA
THIS IS NOT SCUM IKA
THIS IS NOT SCUM IKA

HERE'S SCUM IKA:

(credit to tth for links)
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=60729
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=60599
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=60340

THIS IS NOT ANY OF THOSE

OBVIOUSLY

Can we not do meta.

How about you provide reasoning based on this game for why ika isn't scum?

for IKA, yes we can

he's THAT predictable

Spoiler:

let's see....

cute and fluffy: 125 pages, 26 ika posts
doa: 136 pages, 27 ika posts
pyp: 64 pages, 9 ika posts

this game: 65 pages, 163 ika posts

ONE OF THESE THINGS IS NOT LIKE THE OTHER
ONE OF THESE THINGS JUST DOESN'T BELONG
CAN YA' TELL ME WHICH THING IS
NOT
LIKE
THE
OTHER

by the time that i finish this song?

he posts a lot

seriously, he doesn't do that as scum. it's almost a trust tell at this point.

alright, now that we've got that taken care of, sthar read

[Antihero]

@Anti can you summerize sthar read for me?

partly poe, mostly that his reads are probably not legit. bbthydra is decently town and zzzx is actually moving to the townier end of the spectrum for me and i can already see he's pivoting to change his read on me.

this is all calculated because it's getting down to endgame and sthar knows he can't paint himself into a corner so the reads are getting more mushy and PLOP instead of more refined and narrowed down.

[Antihero]

There's no way scum is going to push for a lynch that's in no one's lynch pool.

UNVOTE:
And I lIke it

counterpoint: this is sthar

and most of it's bullshit. everything else is misapplied

[Antihero]

There's no way scum is going to push for a lynch that's in no one's lynch pool.

UNVOTE:
And I lIke it

counterpoint: this is sthar

and most of it's bullshit. everything else is misapplied

PSA: argument by unsupported assertion is a fantastic scumtool when the town is being really lazy. Everything I said was true, despite Antihero's truly compelling argument otherwise. Please be a responsible townie and do your own damn fact checking.

Then vote antihero with me.

no, it 100% involves spin.

everything you put (especially the ika "buddying" when there were votes on him) was started from "this is scum and therefore scum did it"

you're spinning, sthar

[Antihero]

awesome... we won.

no thanks to me.

[Antihero]

awesome... we won.

no thanks to me.

joke post? confirmed joke post. rvs is long over. good work anti. there... happy with the recognition?

nah, just wallowing

i'm in a wallow-y mood