Open 613: Nightless Vengeful Mayhem!

[ChaosOmega]

On mobile right now because my work computer is a poop.

Johnny, does Superstar's 22 read fake to you?

[ChaosOmega]

VOTE: Superstar2361

[ChaosOmega]

As a side note, anyone besides Johnny play this setup before? I've played one nightless but it was all vanilla with no shots, only lynching.

I'd never been in or even heard of a nightless set-up when I signed up for this game. I've never even seen a game where vigs are on the scum team before - I thought they were always on the town's side as blue roles

A nightless with all vanillas? How did scum kills work? Did they do it during the Day, or did they have to persuade town to mislynch to kill town?

I also have a question for everyone.

What's your experience with Mafia?

For me, this is my second game, both on here and of Mafia in general.

So don't be surprised if I seem like a newb.

On mobile right now because my work computer is a poop.

Johnny, does Superstar's 22 read fake to you?

What, like, she's lying? I'm not sure wtf a blue role is so that speaks to some experience I haven't had so I could see it.

VOTE: Super

Ohhhh, I meant aligned with the town ^^

Roles like vigs and doctors and stuff like that are known as blue roles in some other place I've heard of that has Mafia games.

Didn't know they weren't known as that around here.

...I think this just proves that I'm still a newb.

Emphasis mine. She reads as nervous, tripping over herself saying she hasn't played mafia anywhere else; I indirectly call out her post, and she follows up with reasoning that doesn't make sense if this is the only site she's played at.

Superstar, have any reads?

[ChaosOmega]

Superstar, you could try getting more reads by questioning people and interacting with the game instead of being the activity police. Just a thought.

Reading through stuff now.

[ChaosOmega]

People I wouldn't mind being dead:

Superstar: Avoiding posting content (such as responding to makara's 86); the lurker push in 97 is bad (it's easy for scum to make, and it's an excuse for her to not interact/make reads; "If you guys only posted more, I could have reads!")

Kop: Reads list post feels weird to me. If you weren't gonna mention every player, why have shit like makara's read?

Taly: 20 reads fake, 84's vote for ika is bad. Is ika a scumread for you because he didn't explain his reads?

[ChaosOmega]

You can class itlepip as same as markaras. I somehow missed him / her out.

And Taly? Who I mentioned literally right under your name in my post.

[ChaosOmega]

I don't have any real reads. I don't like ika's play at all but I feel like is he trying to be the day 1 lynch on purpose which is just trolly over anything. I would be in favor of lynching him day 2 but I don't trust him with the veng kill.

I have Taly as a scum lean since he seems to just be in favor of lynches without must justification

VOTE: Taly

Wait, you want to lynch ika D2 which would mean you think he's scum but you don't want to lynch him today because you don't trust him with a venge shot which would mean you think he's town.

Why the contradictory read here?

Good catch.

VOTE: itlepip

I vote for him to shoot Superstar if he's town.

[ChaosOmega]

I don't have any real reads. I don't like ika's play at all but I feel like is he trying to be the day 1 lynch on purpose which is just trolly over anything. I would be in favor of lynching him day 2 but I don't trust him with the veng kill.

I have Taly as a scum lean since he seems to just be in favor of lynches without must justification

VOTE: Taly

Wait, you want to lynch ika D2 which would mean you think he's scum but you don't want to lynch him today because you don't trust him with a venge shot which would mean you think he's town.

Why the contradictory read here?

I think that he is a trolly town trying his best to get the venge shot. I meant that I don't want him to get the shot so if we do decide to lynch him I suggest doing it tomorrow instead of today.

Weasely as shit. You went from "I would be in favor of lynching him day 2" to "if we do decide to lynch him it should be day 2". Don't want the blame for his lynch because you already know his alignment? You saw a push against ika and wanted to hop on, and it looks opportunistic and scummy.

Flashwagon on itlepip gogogo.

[ChaosOmega]

Then why would you be in favor of lynching him day 2?

[ChaosOmega]

Then why would you be in favor of lynching him day 2?

Just ask him if he's into policy lynches and quit with the foreplay

Nothing wrong with a bit of foreplay.

Why didn't you ask him that already?

[ChaosOmega]

Because I don't care. I don't like that he's lining up future lynches in general.

I advocated for a itlepip lynch and a Super venge-shot if there is one. Is this me lining up kills and if so, is it different from what itlepip posted?

I don't like the way that ika is playing, and I have been in favor of policy lynches or at least putting people at L-1 when either the game stagnates or people refuse to answer questions or generally lurk. Mostly just because I hate losing to WIFOM with players that play bad that I read town then end up scum.

Your account is less than a month old. What experience do you have with policy lynches?

[ChaosOmega]

VOTE: Taly

Willing to move my vote to any other player to achieve a lynch, but there's not gonna be a lynch without a deadline extension.

[ChaosOmega]

This is all from itlepip's 169:

128
This play is reasonable from a town perspective but sets up for the potential 5v3 scenario that people mention if both parties are town. This and several following post show that he is in favor of lynching someone today and using the vig shot.

Who gives a shit if people mention it? Do

you

think it's a bad thing?

Now out of f*cking nowhere he changes his vote to Taly

He was one of my top 3 scumreads I listed in 100, so "out of fucking nowhere" is a stretch.

There seem to be two possible motivations for this post, neither of which are towny. If he actually was town, then the only good reason to vote for Taly here is if you don't approve of the veng kill or you think we can all suddenly join the Taly wagon to get that lynch. What hurts this interpretation even more is that he has said nothing to suggest that he has changed his read on me or explain his read on Taly (pot calling the kettle black I know but bear with me). My analysis of this vote change is that he is scum either trying to prevent the veng shot since he is scared of where it is going or by joining in on my vote trying to make it seem like shooting Taly is good here since it would have more support.

I was in no way trying to prevent the venge-shot. That makes literally no fucking sense. Did you read the post I voted Taly? I want a lynch today, on anyone. Taly had a few votes already, one of which is RC who can be stubborn with his vote, and I'm suspicious of the slot.

How about you justify your vote on Taly? You were called out for your shitty reasoning, and then you never bothered mentioning it again and moved your vote.

[ChaosOmega]

Johnny, do you think we haven't had a scum kill yet because the dayvig wasn't here for most of the game (i.e., Meowmix/Jester)?

[ChaosOmega]

I want a lynch today, on anyone.

On

anyone

? So you wouldn't mind if a player that seems really townish gets lynched?

Nope. I have preferences, but I want a lynch. It doubles the chance of killing the dayvig before they can use both shots.

Superstar, who are your top two scumreads not named ChaosOmega?

---

Waiting on itlepip to respond to 186. I've seen you post elsewhere on site. Why are you avoiding this game?

[ChaosOmega]

Yeah, Taly is scum. Would much rather vote to lynch Taly over pip.

Taly pushed ika at the beginning for not explaining himself, but he's backed off that push. I still haven't seen ika explain himself, so to me it looks like Taly backed off because he's working with a few people and Taly doesn't want to step on any toes. RC has pushed for a Taly lynch most of the day, without really explaining it, so I would think at least Taly would push against RC in a similar fashion to ika. But he hasn't done that at all. Taly's pushes don't look like scumhunting, they look like pushing through lynch opportunities.

The readslist in 238 is weak. It only pushes itlepip as scum, keeping the theme of Taly not stepping on any toes. He throws three names in as an uncertain read, just looks like he's keeping his options open on who to push tomorrow. One of the names is Saphira, who was a townread for Taly earlier. He tries to post something against me but throws in a wishy-washy qualifier to make it easy for him to detract from it if need be.

Not as sure on pip being town (I'm a sucker for AtE and 237 reads genuine to me), but otherwise, I think my reads right now mirror RC's:

I'm pretty sure Pip is town.

Taly/Kop/Jester are the ones I'm interested in atm.

[ChaosOmega]

I think there's an echo in this game!

[ChaosOmega]

RC doesn't want town alive? He must be scum!

[ChaosOmega]

Not as sure on pip being town (I'm a sucker for AtE and 237 reads genuine to me), but otherwise, I think my reads right now mirror RC's:

I'm pretty sure Pip is town.

Taly/Kop/Jester are the ones I'm interested in atm.

I agree that 237 reads genuine. What's AtE?

Appeal to Emotion.

I think that you're useless at best and scum at worst BUT the way Jester started a wagon on Kop after commenting on the difficulty of forming a wagon when there was already so much support for a Taly wagon makes me suspect that they're scum together and he wanted to steer the lynch away from his partner.

Thought the same thing. Looking back over it, it looks like Jester has a stronger scumread on Kop, which I guess is ok to want to push that lynch, except we're very close to the deadline and he certainly didn't post any sort of case to rally the troops and explain why Kop is such a better lynch. So yeah, looks like a distraction.

[ChaosOmega]

VOTE: Taly

RC: why makara?

[ChaosOmega]

Unsure of Saphira, she hasn't posted much since the last few pages, and I am curious about their vote on Jester, since she never truly interacted with him and pushed him to L-1 without much understanding of the argument against Jester. I'd like to hear her catch-up post.

I explained when I voted, but very well, here it is again: When I checked the thread we were 7-ish hours from the deadline. Additionally, I knew I wouldn't be around to vote later in the day. I then had two options:
1) Vote then and there, with full knowledge people would scumread me for doing so.
2) Do nothing, and hope that some other person would come in and cast the last vote. There would be the risk that everyone who hadn't already voted would refuse to take action and simply wait for somebody

else

to cast the last vote... and the deadline would have arrived without a lynch. If this happened, we'd probably lynch The_Jester on Day 2 anyway. If he flipped town, it would be better to lynch him Day 1 than 2, as we'd at least get the vengeshot.

What would you have done?

You were against the vengeshot D1. What changed?

[ChaosOmega]

Not interested in a Saphira wagon, they're one of my top townreads.

Still really want a Taly lynch. In response to my 239, he posted "Chaos seems more towny to me, but I'm not happy about their approach." I'm dreadfully sorry you don't approve of my methods. How about instead of saying I'm misguided town and handwaving me away, you respond to 239 and explain your motivations for your actions I describe.

[ChaosOmega]

This is all a response to Taly's 320:

My townreading on you wasn't in response to your 239

Well yeah, you can't say that out loud. But your next post after my 239 had that in there. You're following up here with an actual response to my case, so I will address that in a sec, but why now only after I called you out on it? Because it wasn't getting much vocal support and a couple pages past and you thought you could just sweep it under the rug?

Ika did explain himself in part, he gave content beyond just vaguely stating who he'd push and he also engaged in conversation with other people, my vote on Ika wasn't to get an exact answer, it was more on applying pressure to get him to say more than just give vague replies and assist with town outside of building up a read and then not delivering any substance.

After I saw his posts such as: 146, 147, 149, and 150 >>> It made me see a bit more on how he viewed and approached the situation, which gave me town vibes seeing as he was actively trying to assess how we could go about D1 in terms of lynch possibilities, and the outcome.

Here was a quote from you (107): "I think Ika is suspicious since he's been vague, and has made little to no response to anyone who has pushed him. Furthermore, he's posted several times but there's been no major content coming from him. It's either fluff, or he's built up his posts and then not delivered anything about them."

Let's take a look at those posts you cited. It's all townbloc and theory talk. This is major content to you?

Pushing for conversation and giving out his opinions also gave me a town-feel 173 and 190

Those

posts gave you a town feel? 173, where he just says he wants Kop dead. Weren't you just talking about ika giving content beyond who he was pushing? And I guess technically 190 is ika pushing for conversation. Does ika not talk to people as scum? I guess what I'm asking here is do you have any meta or experience with him to suggest a reach-out like that is town? Because it reads as extremely null to me.

I'm not sure why you say I haven't stepped on any toes - or I at least avoid doing that, I've questioned others, and asserted my scumreads quite a few times.

I'm saying your reads are weak and designed not to get you in trouble with anybody. Let me go through your ISO real quick:

You say ika takes priority for your scumreads in 84, I call your ika vote bad, and you respond in 107 with ika is scummy on a small degree. That all goes away in 152. There's no support for an ika lynch, and now you express suspicions of pip, right after me, Johnny, and makara attack pip. You make a push in 166, but it's just a rehash of other people's cases. I already explained what I didn't like about your 238.

You then vote makara in 291. You said in 238 you liked the questions they were asking, so that reads as a little strange. You give reasons in 295; your #1 reason is "You haven't seemed to have posted a lot of content, or contributed to much discussion." In post 107, you said "I'm against lynching a lurker. It really doesn't provide an ounce of information even if we hit scum and it's still unlikely we'd hit scum by numbers." Don't these two things conflict?

I normally don't have solid, stable reads - or at least, accurate - reads on D1. Saphira hasn't posted that much the past few pages until her L-1 vote on Jester at the end of D1. My read became null on her.

If Saphira was null, why was she mentioned and not RC or Jester?

[ChaosOmega]

sorry

VOTE: Taly

will explain later when I have time

Is your explanation something to the effect of that Taly has some votes as well and you're only trying to avoid a lynch?

[ChaosOmega]

Not interested in a Saphira wagon, they're one of my top townreads.

Why is Saphira a townread?

Gut.

And before you (maybe not you in particular SW, but someone) get all whatever with your "One of your top townreads is gut? You're an awful person blah blah blah" thing, I'm just gonna give a readslist as to where my head's at, because this game is just fucking boring as shit to me right now, and maybe this might help my engagement.

Town - ika & Saphira
Town I guess but eh - itlepip
No idea, can't read at all, will definitely win this shit if scum - SW
Keep getting more paranoid they're scum, difficult to read - RC
Absolutely useless - Super & makara
Scum - Taly

[ChaosOmega]

VOTE: RadiantCowbells

[ChaosOmega]

If Saphira was null, why was she mentioned and not RC or Jester?

'cause there's a strong Saphira wagon going and Taly wants to get a piece of it.

This was in response to my Taly case on 330. RC's reasoning here is off-base. There is currently pressure on Saphira, but not when Taly made the post I was referencing. Looks more like agenda posting than actual scumhunting.

[ChaosOmega]

Is makara an idiot or do you not want to lynch them?

Everyone can also note RC not responding to my point at all.

[ChaosOmega]

Makara isn't voting me or posting reads lists.

But you have a scum read on the slot, correct? It's just more important to lynch idiots than scumreads?

I mean if you can't connect the dots then I'm not sure if I know words small enough to explain it to you.

No, ika has a point. You said everyone, when it was just me. Why not just call me out for being an idiot? Looks like you just trying to look like you're helping town.

[ChaosOmega]

VOTE: Taly

[ChaosOmega]

I'm not.

Taly is so painfully scum that it hurts. His bullshit jump onto ika is blatant opportunism. His next post is a backtrack saying ika could be town, but he leaves his vote there.

I'm gonna prod dodge until Taly is lynched.

[ChaosOmega]

Trying to recruit me over to your wagon?

[ChaosOmega]

As a general rule, I don't listen to anything Titus says.

Let's talk about you for a sec. You said this in 482:

I think because a RC Blade world is more likely than a Taly blade world I would prefer a lynch on RC here.

Now, maybe I'm just being dumb, but at 1st glance, it would seem to make more sense to vote Blade since they're in both groupings. Can you explain why RC is a better lynch?

[ChaosOmega]

No.

[ChaosOmega]

Please, tell me why I was being opportunistic when I was figuring out between RC-Ika, on who was more likely scum, because of their 1v1.

Is there necessarily scum in RC and ika; i.e., what in their 1v1 gave you the idea it wasn't TvT?

Statements like these are beginning to make me question my townread on you Chaos

Please don't stop townreading me, Taly. How will I go on without your support?

[ChaosOmega]

I'd like to see itlepip respond to 511 and 515. Also for itlepip, why aren't you voting for Taly?

[ChaosOmega]

We have grown beyond barbaric lynching, RC. We're now like Congress. We all have a vote, and we sit around and don't do a goddamn thing.

Definitely on board with Taly. Not as sure on itle, although his recent posting looks quite bad (which I why I want his response to this page).

[ChaosOmega]

There's something to be said for you avoiding answering questions directed at you and instead posting that nonsense.