Open 613: Nightless Vengeful Mayhem!

[SilverWolf]

Hi everyone!!

VOTE: Kop

For fooling the shit out of me as scum last time. Not going to happen again.

Hurry, let's speed lynch him before he gets in here.

[SilverWolf]

Hi everyone!!

VOTE: Kop

For fooling the shit out of me as scum last time. Not going to happen again.

Hurry, let's speed lynch him before he gets in here.

Aww wolfs I thought you loved me

VOTE: ika

<3

If you're town, you'd get venge shot. If scum you die and can't fool me again. That's a win, win right?

As a side note, anyone besides Johnny play this setup before? I've played one nightless but it was all vanilla with no shots, only lynching.

[SilverWolf]

A nightless with all vanillas? How did scum kills work? Did they do it during the Day, or did they have to persuade town to mislynch to kill town?

I also have a question for everyone.

What's your experience with Mafia?

For me, this is my second game, both on here and of Mafia in general. So don't be surprised if I seem like a newb.

It was all done by lynching. No vigs at all or vengekills. It was a long, tough game with 3 week deadlines. This is my first time playing in this type of set-up. Other than that, I've had over a year of experience on this site and a few games offsite as well. No idea how many overall.

How come you are trying so hard to show us you are a newb?

[SilverWolf]

Yeah, I think I see where she's coming from with the Blue and Green stuff. SuperStar-can you give me the name or a link to a site where this is the case? I'd like to check it out and see what you are talking about. Thanks.

[SilverWolf]

He meant me. In my sig it says Wolfie as that is a nickname of mine.

[SilverWolf]

can we lyncht the scum already

Who is the scum?

look att who im voting

but why

tell me one reason i should be town reading it?

He's asking questions and pushing discussion. Why is he scum? Or is he just not a townread and you want to PoE lynch?

[SilverWolf]

Well, I can sort of see why ika might be hesitant to out his townreads in this setup.

I can say meta wise that Kop lurks like crazy as scum and I'm quite o.k. keeping my vote on him.

MeowMix probs needs replacement at this point.

Johnny-Who is the blue dragon from Eragon? Do you still think Super is likely to be scum via Chaos' post?

[SilverWolf]

Well, it's mostly because of the setup. Throwing out townreads, gives scum targets.

But you are right, it doesn't make sense to discuss townblocing and PoE lynching if we don't know who you want to bloc with.

[SilverWolf]

Well, it's mostly because of the setup. Throwing out townreads, gives scum targets.

But you are right, it doesn't make sense to discuss townblocing and PoE lynching if we don't know who you want to bloc with.

Im waiting for first lynch and venge shot. Doing prematurely will casue bias. If we get rid of the dayvig we can just town bloc 3 ppl and be done.

SW talk to me, i want to belive your town but i dont feel convinced yet.

I was wondering the same about you because you were so quiet but it isn't like everyone else isn't either. What do you think of this idea? I'm trying to figure out the best strategy for D1. I agree that townblocing D2 and forward would be better once the vengekill is enacted.

Should we come up with our two top scumreads, and agree that if the first one we lynch is a Citizen, they vengekill the other?

[SilverWolf]

I don't have any real reads. I don't like ika's play at all but I feel like is he trying to be the day 1 lynch on purpose which is just trolly over anything. I would be in favor of lynching him day 2 but I don't trust him with the veng kill.

I have Taly as a scum lean since he seems to just be in favor of lynches without must justification

VOTE: Taly

Wait, you want to lynch ika D2 which would mean you think he's scum but you don't want to lynch him today because you don't trust him with a venge shot which would mean you think he's town.

Why the contradictory read here?

[SilverWolf]

I was wondering the same about you because you were so quiet but it isn't like everyone else isn't either. What do you think of this idea? I'm trying to figure out the best strategy for D1. I agree that townblocing D2 and forward would be better once the vengekill is enacted.

personally im not against the "we pick two people, one to lynch other to venge" and go from there

Do you have ideas on who would go in these two spots?

[SilverWolf]

itelpip-has barely posted and has contradictory reads-I know you said no reasons but LOL

Kop-sorry my friend but your lack of activity in the beginning and reads list didn't do much for me sadly. Reminds me of your scum game.

makara-ISO is a barren wasteland and all he's done is ask other for reads.

[SilverWolf]

ika-What do you think of this idea? I am kind of concerned if we lynch and venge wrong that we are down two town. Then it's 8v3 and scum can just shoot twice and win. I mean there's a better chance of hitting town than scum just by numbers if the shot is random anyway. Saphira here is making a lot of sense to me.

Since you're the only one who's played this setup, I'll direct this line of thinking mostly at you-- correct me if I'm wrong. The goal for town is to always stay (numerically) 3 or more above mafia. If we ever reach a point where (# of townies) = (# of mafia) + 2 while mafia still has both shots, mafia will win by doing two consecutive day kills. If this is the case, shouldn't we

not

use the venge kill if we lynch a Citizen? The venge kill is more likely to bring us to that case in which (# of town) = (# of mafia) + 2. And even if there's an overwhelmingly scummy person at the end of Day 1, we can lynch them Day 2. We'll get more information that way too by observing reactions and whatnot.

[SilverWolf]

and if we myslycnh and misvenge anywyas and they double shot it goes to a 5v3 and scums are gonna be more conorer IMO cus tats where the big crunhc comes in on who you ycnh and townbloc

Oh duh, we only have 12 players, I thought we had 13 for some reason.

OK, Makes sense now.

[SilverWolf]

i would prefer a veng eshot on kop perSONALLY

I agree with this. Kop is playing to his scum meta and not his town meta.

[SilverWolf]

how much time do you have SW i want to sort you, part of me is still nagging at the fact you have been semi-inactive

Not a lot but I can make some. What do you want to talk about?

[SilverWolf]

how much time do you have SW i want to sort you, part of me is still nagging at the fact you have been semi-inactive

Not a lot but I can make some. What do you want to talk about?

dont worry about it then somethign jsut came up IRL i dont want to talk anyomore

It's OK ika, we can do it tomorrow if you'd rather. I'll be around after work. I'm gonna get some sleep now.

[SilverWolf]

whos here?

Raises hand. Just got off work and catching up but I'm here.

[SilverWolf]

Give me a few ika and I'll be right back.

[SilverWolf]

i would prefer a veng eshot on kop perSONALLY

I agree with this. Kop is playing to his scum meta and not his town meta.

elaborate pls

Kop is lurky and filler posts as scum. He's more active as town. He hasn't done much here to make me think he's town and he's matching his scum meta so far.

I would prefer itlepip lynch and Kop venge if itlepip is town.

I have Jester, RC, makara as null right now.

Everyone else I'd prefer not to lynch today as they have all given me some reason to believe they may be town or at least not scum.

[SilverWolf]

i agree with SW on how lynch/venge should go right now.

whats the read on omega and KBW. now that i take it your done i want todo back and forth and sort the game out

Omega is kind of a gut weak townread because he's being aggressive and I'd think scum would want to lay low at least until the venge kill is done.

Who is KBW?

[SilverWolf]

i agree with SW on how lynch/venge should go right now.

whats the read on omega and KBW. now that i take it your done i want todo back and forth and sort the game out

Omega is kind of a gut weak townread because he's being aggressive and I'd think scum would want to lay low at least until the venge kill is done.

Who is KBW?

Keybladewielder, i think she is scum what you think

Totes scum.

[SilverWolf]

SW can you unpack some of the other reads that are not nullish

i can get most of them but some of them i have more null atm

-Chaos, like I said aggressive, different from the game I saw him in as scum where he lurked more. This was a game I replaced out of but still watched.

-Super-looks kind of newbtown and awkward but not in a scummy way

-Taly-reminds me of her town self in 185 but this is weak as I need to see more

-Saphira-nulltown, just a gut read right now, more on the null side than anything-probably weakest read I have

-Johnny-town, actively pushing discussion

-ika-town

[SilverWolf]

would you agree witha a bloc of me/you/johhny right now?

im considering cahocs cus both you and johhy back it but i need to iso as well he hasnt left anyhting memorable to me yet

Sure, that works for me.

[SilverWolf]

Kop's looking kinda scummy with 240 just being a sheep of Chaos.

Also, not a fan of Jester because he originally liked Taly here 182 but then suddenly here 243 Taly is in his lynch pool for no reason I can see.

[SilverWolf]

VOTE: Jester

We need 7 to lynch in this much time. My vote is the 5th.

(expired on 2015-10-24 20:56:00)

Super why didn't you vote? Why is ika scum to you?

Kop is still the best vengekill right now if Jester is town.

[SilverWolf]

Superstar, you shouldn't have an RVS vote in play by the end of the day if you aren't reading that person scum.

Waaaaiiiiit a minute... I just looked through SW's ISO for something, and found that they kept their RVS vote on Kop up until Johnny got vigged. Shouldn't you be saying the same thing to them?

Why are you so concerned about this? Are you reading the game? My vote wasn't RVS. Also, Saphira kept her RVS vote on me all day. Do you have an opinion on that?

Okay, I am a little worried about following RC's wagon again, he really started the Jester wagon and had kop as one of his scum reads but then didn't like the kop kill? His explanation for the Makara wagon is "I want this".
I don't like Makara's play but since we are so close to mylo that I think that killing someone just because they lurk is bad here. I think that in terms of scummy lurking Saphira's is worse than Makara. Makara's town meta seems much closer to how he is playing here than Saphira's based on their finished games.

Taly I am liking a lot as town

VOTE: Saphira

What do you see about Taly that makes you think she's town.

VOTE: Makara

Since Makara scumreads Pip, and Pip hasn't interacted with Makara, I'm thinking one of them is scum. (165 - 208)

Why me and not itlepip?

VOTE: itlepip

Why itlepip?

[SilverWolf]

VOTE: Saphira

You have spent a considerable amount of time talking up ika as scum but then put an unexplained vote on the largest wagon. It's like you are lining up ika to go next after makara who is a much easier target for you to vote for right now. And even though your L-1 vote was due to deadline yesterday, when I add that to this, I'm not liking your motives in this game.

[SilverWolf]

Why are you so concerned about this? Are you reading the game? My vote wasn't RVS. Also, Saphira kept her RVS vote on me all day. Do you have an opinion on that?

I was concerned because I thought somebody was calling me out for doing something while completely ignoring the fact that somebody else was doing exactly the same thing. I mean, if you saw two people doing the same thing, but only one of them gets called out for it, you would wonder why the other person didn't get called out for doing that thing, right?

I can see now (because you pointed it out) that I was right, but not about the person who was doing the same thing that I was.

I don't really see makara keeping her RVS vote on you as a scumread (After all, I kept an RVS vote on someone myself). But I am curious as to why itlepip never called makara out for doing the same thing I did on D1.

So, itlepip... Why didn't you do it?

OK, Now that you've gotten this taken care of, what is your opinion on the gamestate right now?

[SilverWolf]

OK, Now that you've gotten this taken care of, what is your opinion on the gamestate right now?

Not sure really. There are four players with two votes on each of them. I think I'm going to ISO each of them (or at least attempt to) and think about which one of those four is the most suspicious to me (if I think they are suspicious).

What about the others with no votes? Are you going to look at them too?

[SilverWolf]

Not interested in a Saphira wagon, they're one of my top townreads.

Why is Saphira a townread?

[SilverWolf]

@SilverWolf:

VOTE: Saphira

You have spent a considerable amount of time talking up ika as scum but then put an unexplained vote on the largest wagon. It's like you are lining up ika to go next after makara who is a much easier target for you to vote for right now. And even though your L-1 vote was due to deadline yesterday, when I add that to this, I'm not liking your motives in this game.

Because, as scum, I woke up this morning and decided, "I'm going to go after ika! It's not like the majority of players have a townread on him, surely this will be an easy mislynch."

If you don't believe my case against ika, which parts specifically do you disagree with?

Respond pls, kthxbai.

I don't necessarily think you're scum just because you're forming a townbloc; I said that was a possibility. If other people want to join, I'm not going to interfere. It's their choice, and I don't have any non-WIFOM evidence on you. Nor am I attempting to form a townbloc of my own because I don't expect there to be enough people townreading me strongly enough for it to work.

Actually, when I looked back at your ISO it became apparent to me that despite your appearance of "leading town" or whatever, you haven't done much of substance. You haven't taken a single original stance-- itlepip was under fire long before you mentioned him, and JohnnyFarrar and RadiantCowbells had mentioned they wouldn't mind kop dead, and yet you're still pushing me to townread you. With that in mind, you're my second scumread behind makara.

The first part is you talking about the townbloc. I don't see what that has to do with anything since you don't scumread ika for trying to form one.

I don't agree he's done nothing of substance. He's explaining his reads and the townbloc idea is absolutely doing something and I believe his intentions behind it looked townie. It also absolutely is an original stance so this contradicts you saying he hasn't had one.

~SW

Sorry, OMG I suck at this hydra shit. LOL

This is me!!

[SilverWolf]

OK, Now that you've gotten this taken care of, what is your opinion on the gamestate right now?

Not sure really. There are four players with two votes on each of them. I think I'm going to ISO each of them (or at least attempt to) and think about which one of those four is the most suspicious to me (if I think they are suspicious).

What about the others with no votes? Are you going to look at them too?

Not interested in a Saphira wagon, they're one of my top townreads.

Why is Saphira a townread?

I have a couple outstanding questions here:

@Chaos

@Super

[SilverWolf]

makara's voting pattern seems a bit opportunistic but I'd like to see what a replacement says since there's been almost no content from makara to work with.

Saphira-Do you think ika is scummier than makara who you currently have your vote on or not?

I ask because you are voting makara but pushing ika right now.

[SilverWolf]

makara's voting pattern seems a bit opportunistic but I'd like to see what a replacement says since there's been almost no content from makara to work with.

Saphira-Do you think ika is scummier than makara who you currently have your vote on or not?

I ask because you are voting makara but pushing ika right now.

I'm fine with lynching either of them today. I'm pushing ika because I can get at least some semblance of reply out of him. What do you think about his sheeping of you and his post 345?

Not a big fan of the sheeping. The reason I like ika is because of the townbloc idea. He's done that as town before. He's also pretty useless as scum and I don't see him even trying enough to form a townbloc as scum.

What I really liked was his asking me for my reads and trying to work them out with me and reaching out to me.

[SilverWolf]

Makara isn't voting me or

posting reads lists.

that goes against what you said earlier here

As long as scum have an extra shot

can everyone stop posting fucking read lists

because you're making it so easy for mafia to decide on shots.

Push scum, keep your townreads to yourself.

soooooo.......

whats the deal?

I believe RC is saying that posting town townreads isn't helpful; since makara isn't doing that, RC's not voting him. There's no contradiction.
I find it hard to believe that this is a genuine misunderstanding and not ika twisting facts to get RC lynched.

Yeah, This is actually something I missed until you pointed it out here.

ika-can you give me another reason for voting RC other than this, since it isn't really the contradiction you made it out to be?

[SilverWolf]

I am here now. I am replacing makara. Reading now.

While I am at it

VOTE: Shut the Fuck up

im good, your 2 stances contradict cus you say for ppl not to do it thenyou are complaing someone sint doing it

VOTE: RC

What is "it" here? Can you consider using proper grammar? Your posts are hard to understand.

VOTE: RC

I am caught up.

Is this all you have to say about this game?

[SilverWolf]

It's the most logical move. Ika is obvious town. RC nor ika was hammerred which suggests one is scum. RC's ISO is weak. SW is probably town. We could be assholes and wagon her to confirm but I don't plan to fill my weekly quota of dickishness in this game

Why is ika obvious town to you?

[SilverWolf]

There's only theory spam and ate in ika's iso there. Here he has a lot of content pushes explanations and reading.

Call me Professor ika. Lynch me before ika. I'm that confident.

What?

[SilverWolf]

There's only theory spam and ate in ika's iso there. Here he has a lot of content pushes explanations and reading.

Call me Professor ika. Lynch me before ika. I'm that confident.

What?

its god damn titus SW, she thinks she knows me when she does not i have told her this a 1000 times already that when she shuts the fuck up and learns that she will never understand me cus she has a fucked up belif system that ill talk.

untill then i refuse to ever hear that again. there is only one person who know me and shes not her

Really? I have no idea why she would do this considering when we agree'd to hydra, she mentioned a few people she didn't want us to join game with and you were one so I don't know why she'd join this game you are in.

Not to get personal but mostly just to help you out here since you seem upset.

[SilverWolf]

look there is only one person i know who does that "professer" crap and thats titus, titus has misreped me, made up shit about me, neevr comes to the understanding that she has all this fake ideas about people and things and that i do not want her here due to her toxtivity to games

I'm sorry ika. I like you both a lot. I had no idea you guys had this history though. If it is her, she should never have joined this game.

[SilverWolf]

look there is only one person i know who does that "professer" crap and thats titus, titus has misreped me, made up shit about me, neevr comes to the understanding that she has all this fake ideas about people and things and that i do not want her here due to her toxtivity to games

I'm sorry ika. I like you both a lot. I had no idea you guys had this history though. If it is her, she should never have joined this game.

do you got skype? ill tell you there post game or when we are both dead.

I have been asked this by a few people here now and I probably should sign up but I'm behind the times and don't have it right now.

[SilverWolf]

look there is only one person i know who does that "professer" crap and thats titus, titus has misreped me, made up shit about me, neevr comes to the understanding that she has all this fake ideas about people and things and that i do not want her here due to her toxtivity to games

I'm sorry ika. I like you both a lot. I had no idea you guys had this history though. If it is her, she should never have joined this game.

do you got skype? ill tell you there post game or when we are both dead.

I have been asked this by a few people here now and I probably should sign up but I'm behind the times and don't have it right now.

post game or when we are both dead ill pm you mynumber so we can talk

OK, sounds good ika.

[SilverWolf]

*shrug* I wotced ika because he always votes me. Figured I could alt and solve the problem. He's town. Take it to the bank.

I'll leave now as I don't want ika to vote my slot out of being angry I can read him.

I meant "Call me Professor ika" as someone who knows ika well.

Mod replace me. I won't join any games you're in ika on this site.

Sorry Titus. I didn't mean to get in the middle of this.

[SilverWolf]

VOTE: Blade Dancer

I've had a scumread on makara slot all game and all you've done since entering the thread is defend ika.

[SilverWolf]

V/LA until Wednesday

at least.

Sicker than hell.

[SilverWolf]

Finally getting over the flu but I have a nasty headache now. I'll post more when feeling better. Consider me V/LA until then.

[SilverWolf]

itelpip+Tally=obvious scumteam

I'll wait for Vedith to catch up and give input while I reread what I missed.

[SilverWolf]

@Vedith-How did you come to the conclusion this is flipless? I don't get how you could of possibly come to that conclusion.

[SilverWolf]

VOTE: Taly

I actually think aphix plan makes sense here. If Taly is town then all 3 scum are very likely on her wagon or they would've hammered her. If she's scum, then the scumteam didn't want to hammer.

This makes sense to me and is a valid strategy going forward.

[SilverWolf]

ika-Can you vote for Taly please?

A game like this should be plurality lynch but I just read the rules and it isn't.

So we need to lynch.

[SilverWolf]

@mod

Please prod or replace Saphira.

Thanks!!

[SilverWolf]

VOTE: Taly

[SilverWolf]

IMO, ika and RC are town.

Saphira and aphix are yet to be sorted.

itelpip and Vedith are scumreads

VOTE: itelpip

This is L-1.

[SilverWolf]

OK Well, I'm thinking Saphira/Vedith right now and the stronger scumread is on Vedith because I thought makara was scummy and neither Blade Dancer or Vedith have done anything to change my mind on that.

VOTE: Vedith

[SilverWolf]

Well, Saphira's being replaced and Vedith needs a prod but he's around the site.

[SilverWolf]

Well, you either need to get RC to switch or hope the replacement does.

Of course, if Vedith or RC have a case on aphix, they should discuss it more or RC can explain why he thinks Vedith is town.

[SilverWolf]

Right, Vedith is the makara slot who was playing very scummy, Blade Dancer did nothing to counter that, and Vedith hasn't done anything either except hammer itelpip. I see no reason to believe he's obvious town.

Vedith, do you believe aphix is scum? If so, why aren't you voting him?

[SilverWolf]

Ugh this game drives me freaking crazy sometimes with the lack of logic and the stalling and all the other crap.

So stupid.......................

We need the replacement in here or we need a deadline extension until we get one

@mod

-can we get an extension until we get a replacement please?

[SilverWolf]

Sorry I've been so drained and busy lately.... I just went through a terrible breakup...Have some soul...

So sorry to hear.......................

[SilverWolf]

I'm here and not voting.

JSYK

[SilverWolf]

VOTE: Saphira

[SilverWolf]

Are you doing o.k. now ika? Feeling better?

[SilverWolf]

Are you doing o.k. now ika? Feeling better?

talk postgame about it pm me your number when its offcial ill txt you then

I'll send you my cell number you can text me at so we can talk when the game is officially over.

[SilverWolf]

So if you and SW are both scum, just fess up. You won.

LOL, nope!!

[SilverWolf]

I don't at all understand why you would have bussed taly. That lynch needed both of you to go through.

This is only the second time I've ever bussed a buddy to a lynch. Distancing, sure. But lynching no. It's not something I like doing and argued against it for quite awhile but finally went along when it looked like Taly was going to be up for a lynch over and over. The reason we did it was to get this reaction:

First off, considering taly got lynched. I know my alignment. I know vedith is town. What's the likely hold that both scum jumped in to lynch their partner .... I mean, I guess it's probably a sure fire way to a win there .... But I don't think in the group of RC, SW and Ika there isn't two scum.

One thing I don't really see is RC just pushing that taly lynch and not laying off of it. So I'm pretty much leaving RC as town despite every gut instinct in my wanting to just lynch it. If RC is scum he deserved the win.

TlDR of above, I left it all intact for prosperity sake. In the Taly lynch. We know vedith is town. I don't think two scum were on that lynch. I really don't see that happening. That means only one of SW, Ika and RC is scum. Not on that lynch, is saph, taly and itlepip. We know itlepip is town. Which really leaves saph as scum.

[SilverWolf]

You should probably add me onto the end of the vote on Saphira-just to make it official. Sorry you are miserable. Hope you feel better soon.

[SilverWolf]

GG RC and SW. I liked playing with you both

I enjoyed playing with both of you as well. You guys were good buddies. Hope to see you guys in a future game.

Thanks Keybladeweilder for modding!!

[SilverWolf]

I was only wrong on SW.

<3

[SilverWolf]

You and RC kept saying each other was scum, yet voted elsewhere. It's a classic Titus scum indicator.

It was more likely RC tunneling me but then jumping on others whenever it was plausible, and me just dismissing RC half the time while pursuing another person. lol

But yeah, it was kind of a scum-scum interaction in a sense

That's why we told you to go ahead and vote for RC when you did.

[SilverWolf]

Bussing is so weird, omfg. SW, I know how you feel now about not wanting to buss your partner

It feels like the scum-equivalent of town self-voting. X_X

It's rare for me to do it. But it worked. We won. <3

[SilverWolf]

Thanks Johnny, that's very nice to hear. Appreciate it!! Sorry we took you out so soon but you were too active and townie to live.

After reading the dead thread I want to give Key a hug. So sorry!! <3