Open 629: C9++ (Game over!)

[Ranger]

{Nahdia}
{TheSoldier}
{Masquerade, Klingoncelt}
{Creature}

[Ranger]

How serious should we take these reads?
Also, what order are they in?

I don't know, you tell me!

Ranger, why is Creature at the bottom and Nahdia on top?

If only there were some sort of answer.

[Ranger]

Ranger, is it common for you to not vote in your first post?

About 50/50 I'd guess? I'd have to check.

[Ranger]

{GoodNightMsGreen}
{Nahdia}
{acryon, Willowmeadow}
{TheSoldier, Kop, zefiend}
{KainTepes}
{Masquerade, Klingoncelt}
{Creature}

[Ranger]

So is what we've seen so far normal for Kain, or is it just RVS silliness?

Give it time. I'm fairly confident I can read KainTepes, but I need more than what we have right now to be sure. Early signs are...nullscum: so far, Kain's acting more akin to what I'd expect from him as scum, but it's too early to be certain due to Kain's...

unique

...playstyle.

What about Klingon's single post is scummier than zefiend's single post?

I didn't like Klingoncelt's RVS at all.
zefeind's was more null. Speaking of, I accidentally placed you in that same tier. It was true of your first post, but I forgot to move you up from more recent ones.

{GoodNightMsGreen}
{Nahdia, TheSoldier}
{acryon, Willowmeadow}
{Kop, zefiend}
{KainTepes}
{Masquerade, Klingoncelt}
{Creature}

This is where I'm at.
VOTE: Creature.

[Ranger]

Can't really stand to be brushed off like this.

I'm sorry, not my intention. My intention was more...

It feels like I'm being teased.

This. I love teasing. I like mystery. When others post lists with no reasoning, I thoroughly enjoy trying to figure it out, and when I post with none, I'm expecting others to have fun solving the puzzle I gave them. When push comes to shove, I will be less elusive. But in the early-game, I like my vagueness.

{GoodNightMsGreen}
{Nahdia, TheSoldier}
{acryon, Willowmeadow}
{Reubus Swagrid}
{Kop, zefiend}
{KainTepes, Masquerade}
{Klingoncelt}
{Creature}

[Ranger]

Also, just as soon as I think, "oh, hey, maybe my internet's fixed itself", it has to go be a dick and prove me wrong, going "lolNOPE".
This sort of problem

usually

resolves itself within a few hours, but I've marked myself V/LA for a day to be on the safe side.

[Ranger]

I'm not sure Ranger's is just an RVS strategy.

This is true. I do it regardless of game stage, RVS just so happens to be the time where not giving any reasons is the most beneficial.

[Ranger]

{GoodNightMsGreen, TheSoldier}
{Nahdia}
{acryon}
{Reubus Swagrid, Willowmeadow}
{Kop, zefiend, KainTepes, Masquerade}
{Klingoncelt}
{Creature}

Top three are solidly town, bottom two are solidly scum. We might actually have lucked out and gotten a two-scum setup.

[Ranger]

(And, for the record, the merge of the Kop-tier with the KainTepes tier is the first tier moving

slightly

down and the second tier moving quite a bit up.)

[Ranger]

@Ranger
Are you saying you found scum right now?

Most likely? Yes.

First you state you like vagueness, now you're acting like you're sure Klingo and I are scum?

What makes these mutually exclusive? :P

[Ranger]

Ranger as much as I enjoy your vague teasing, what you're doing would be really easy to fake as scum. We have no way of judging the sincerity of your reads.

No trust is needed. My reads speak for themself. If you think they are right, then that's great. (This currently seems to be the case.) I don't need to do anything more. If you think they are wrong, then I'll continue to push harder. (I have not seen this.) I'll either be proven right or proven wrong. My alignment isn't really relevant, though, given with this playerlist I'm a near-guaranteed nightkill.

I dunno about Creature, but I'm about as Town as it gets.

I've seen you town games up.

This is not you towning a game up.

[Ranger]

@Ranger What about me? And what makes you confident we're both scum?

If it makes you feel better, I don't see anything that really ties you together. It's just you two happen to be the scummiest players in the game and I'm townreading to some extent all the other players.

I didn't like your RVS, nor your reaction to my list.

[Ranger]

The acryon-GoodNightMsGreen fight is boring.

Still like the Creature pressure.

[Ranger]

I do feel very odd about ɀefiend making that call.

Odd, yes. Scum, no. zefiend's probably town.

[Ranger]

I'm sorry to hear that, TheSoldier. :(
You were easily one of the top-three competent players in this game, hope your replacement keeps that.

[Ranger]

My case is that.

You didn't read the case.

I know this because if you had, you'd have realized, "Ranger does those every game".

[Ranger]

Youve got a lot of lip and little content.

Uh-huh.
Says the person who

didn't read the thread

.

Read.

Don't claim to read.
Actually read.

Because I know you haven't. You wouldn't claim this otherwise.

[Ranger]

notice how rangers response tome is'read, i know you didnt'

Yes. Explicitly so.

[Ranger]

So there's been a lot of posting.
Nahdia's points against Klingoncelt feel good, but other than that, there's nothing worth commenting on.

[Ranger]

You could tell us what points feel good

I bet it was all of them, hunh

That would be the case, yes. Stole the words from me, in fact.

[Ranger]

There is nothing new worth responding to.

[Ranger]

Something seems different to seeing her in other games. I just can't put my finger on it right now.

Uh-huh.

Glad to have you in the game thinking nothing is worth talking about.

That's because literally nothing being said is actually productive. It's words, words, words, fluff, fluff, fluff. Oh, it's content alright, people are posting reads and reasons, but it's content which isn't actually doing anything.

[Ranger]

Nahdia, please don't leave.
I don't want another repeat of TheSoldier. :(

[Ranger]

Ah, if only a person had some way to provide content that they don't believe to be just words or fluff. Hmmm.

Oh, you mean like a vote.

Yeah, did that.

Nothing's made me want to move my vote since then, either.

She started out the game with her nice reads lists, which were good for reactions and to gauge where people were at, but we haven't seen one of those in the last 300 posts, despite the fact that people have done plenty to shape one's read of them.

You know. There are times where my reads list change in 300 posts, and I'm negligent and for whatever reason do not post them.

This is not one of those times.

When I said literally nothing's changed.

I mean

literally nothing's changed

.
At all.
...Okay, looking at 102, there's two minor changes to make, plus name updates.
{GoodNightMsGreen, pisskop (sadly), Nahdia}
{acryon}
{Reubus Swagrid, Willowmeadow}
{Kop, zefiend, KainTepes, Masquerade}
{Klingoncelt, Creature's slot}

That's literally it.

Said she most likely found scum in 109 but then does nothing about it. If you "most likely" found scum as town, don't you push that?

Yes, and? I'm voting Creature's slot. I'm also pushing Klingoncelt and supporting Nahdia's push there. There's literally nothing else I can do beyond that, because, again: literally. nothing. changed.

[Ranger]

You mean you havent been reading?

pisskop, I'm going to be blunt with you.
TheSoldier was the towniest player in this game.
He was playing a strong town game. So strong, he'd be the target of the scum's nightkill, guaranteed.

You?
You inherited the slot. So you're town.
But you will never die except unless scum decide to have mercy, and boy would it ever be that. You took the towniest slot in the game and turned it into trash.

[Ranger]

Ranger, are you saying that nothing alignment indicative has happened in the last 300 posts, or that everything that has happened just happens to balance out into virtually the same reads?

Literally nothing has happened to change the reads. You're still a strong scumread, Klingoncelt is still a strong scumread, I still hold the same townreads on everyone else to varying degrees, because nothing in their recent posts has changed my feelings at all.

[Ranger]

If you are town and you think you've found scum, seems like your responsibility is to convince us that you've found it. You're not doing that.

My job is never to convince people I've found scum. It's to identify the scum. Accuracy is more important than push ability to me. Klingoncelt is scum. Nahdia's points against her remain valid. This is also her scum game, which I have encountered multiple times, and contrary to her claims, there's nothing obvtown about her play.

Creature's RVS posting was awkward and out of place. When reacting to the list, Creature had a bad reaction as well, solidifying the read. Something_Smart has replaced in and been nothing short of extremely opportunistic, and, yes, I have some idea of his play as both alignments, with this resembling the scum game more than the town game. None of this is new information.

[Ranger]

ranger, y u b scum?

That's the thing.

I literally could not be further away from being scum than this game. This is my town game, through-and-through.

So the question is, why can't you see that I'm not scum?

rangers real issue is that she is defending herself using ad hoc attacks.

Yeah, because

I have every reason to be pissed off at you

. You took the slot which was guaranteed to be the scum's N1 nightkill it was so town and so on point and then threw it out the window, discarded everything that made the slot worth targeting, and are now guaranteed to never be the scum's nightkill short of them mercy-killing you out of pity.

Your pushes are bad. Your decisions are bad. And I have EVERY right to call you out on it. YOU. Not any other player. I don't care about acryon's push on me. Nor do I care about zefiend's. They're town, they're wrong, but I couldn't care less. But YOU, inheriting TheSoldier's slot, I do. Especially since of all the players in the game, you have the most experience with me and should

know

this is my town game.

[Ranger]

Im the moron ranger, but youll be the one who dies

Exactly my point.

EXACTLY my point.

You're being the moron, so you will never die.

I on the other hand am guaranteed to die.

I have never been this ticked off in a game before, but my fury is justified.

Ranger I'd like you to comment on all the points in zefiend's case on you.

Short answer:

what

points?
Long answer: needs a separate post. But there's a reason I ignored the case in the first place. Literally nothing in there is actually anything.

[Ranger]

1. Her lists
... are not reads lists because they literally have no content attached.

This is easily proven false by reading literally any past Ranger game, town or scum. I have 45 games listed on my wiki, and in

literally every single one of them

(except maybe Embodiment of the Scarlet Devil), I listed. Many of them had me list in the RVS, even in the first page. It's true I list as scum, too, for different reasons, but this makes it a playstyle decision. Not a point.

... are sliding scale with multiple degrees of towniness and scumminess with tiers that move up and down arbitrarily or sometimes disappear. This reeks of deception to me. Scum can easily manipulate this so-called "puzzle" to tilt the town.

This is easily proven false by reading literally any past Ranger game, town or scum, where my readslist changes almost every time I post it, and I generally post it frequently especially in the earlier stages of the game. Not a point.

... are an added distraction and source of confusion to the town. This is scumplay.

Absolutely backwards, as it has been pointed out: my readslists got a reaction from Creature, making them not only content, not only a good reaction test, but

also

a way to catch scum. So the very point meant to display how it was scumplay just proves it was townplay.

2. She has given a total of (3) reasons for her reads this game.

This is an intentional playstyle decision, as noted many times now. I catch scum. I do not generally push scum. As posts are made that are worth commenting on, I will point out good points like Nahdia's. I will point out scum posts as I see them. I am naturally adverse to reasons as a minimalist. Furthermore, the few times I do give extensive reasoning, it is usually on direct request...and nobody asked me, for instance,

which

posts of Creature's that I did not like. I was asked what I didn't like, so I answered. I was not asked for the specifics, so I did not give them. Again, I put in as little effort as required. And since nobody asked, I wasn't going to bother pointing it out.

How can you make this generalized statement to help justify your vote on Creature (and read on Klingoncelt) when you have several other players in null and null-scum tiers?

Those tiers are never labeled

for good reason

. And for this, I can even pull up an MD post I made before the game began: from this thread, my listing format was a subject of discussion. My response, verbatim?

My style of reads has already been discussed by others. I use it because it is efficient and

does not assign arbitrary labels to positions that are largely fluid: my top-tier list can sometimes be "these players I will never, ever, EVER lynch", yet other times, my top-tier can be "barely above null"

. I can have as few as two or three tiers, or as many as the playerlist.

Listing's valid as scumhunting for the reasons mentioned already: I don't have to waste effort on something unnecessarily detailed if people have no questions, and if they do, they simply engage me. Changes in the list provide content. I've personally taken so many people adapting my style as a sign I did something right when I created it, so I'll continue to use it as long as it serves me well.

The bolded part is the relevant one. In post 102, the last reads list as of zefiend's case, my tiers were

approximately

, bottom to top: "REALLY scum", "Pretty dang scum", "pretty sure these players are town, but I lack anything truly concrete", "these players are still solid townreads", "strong town", "almost-untouchable town, but I have some reserves", and "untouchable-town".

That was the case for the reads list in 102, but any other reads list will have different tiers. For instance, way back in 11, it was more "pretty sure scum", "both scummy", "probably town", and "pretty town". This is something anyone could have gotten if they had

asked

, but nobody did. They just assumed. So yes. I have two scumreads. I have various degrees of townreads on the rest of the players. The scumreads are not just POE. They're also off of content. But POE

did

factor into them.

Hand-wave most relevant content in the game at the time and take potshot at target. Great scum efficiency, I'll give you that.

I called the fight boring because it was exactly that: boring. acryon is town. GoodNightMsGreen is also town. They had a TvT fight. It is therefore of no interest to me, especially since they were able to more or less work it out. (If the debate had gotten too heated, then I would have stepped in and bluntly told them, "look, you're being idiots. Both of you are town, look at Creature and Klingoncelt who are scum on the sidelines watching". But it never elevated to that level. Because the fight was boring.)

And the last part speaks for itself. This is me showing why zefiend had no case at all. This is all also common sense,

especially

for Ranger veterans. Too lazy to look at past games yourself, I can do the work for you, literally at random selecting any of the games on my wiki (which is mostly up to date, link in my sig) and show you I'm not lying here. There is no case on me.

[Ranger]

Ranger why are you so concerned with who is the N1 kill?

I'm not.

I'm just being blunt to pisskop.

Had TheSoldier stayed in the game, even if for the rest of the day phase prod-dodging and giving no additional content, his early content was enough to justify the scum trying to take him out.

My point to pisskop is he will

never

be the scum's nightkill this game with how HE is playing. Not on a future night and

certainly

not on N1. Because he is doing the scum's job for them. What's the term, town beard? That's what he's being. Why kill someone who is being utterly incompetent? Town credit from the predecessor will only do so much good; the value of having someone as bullheaded and stubbornly wrong as pisskop alive and helping them push/lynch town FAR outweighs that.

[Ranger]

Tell you what, lets lynch nadhia an go from there

No.

[Ranger]

Just being blunt, but your play here is perhaps as desperate as Ive ever seen from you

Uh-huh.

Eat these words post-game.
I WILL quote them back at you.

I'm

that

ticked off.
That unless by some MIRACLE your play improves, I will quote this post-game, in your face, just to rub it in how WRONG you are right now.

[Ranger]

You are drastically overestimating my need to feel vaildated by you.

Oh, it's not validation.
It's rubbing it in your face.

I don't care how petty that makes me.

When I say I've never been more ticked off than I am at

you

right now.
I mean it.

why is nadhia town?

Because EVERYTHING she's said has been town. From her RVS to how natural her pushes are to how right she is about Klingoncelt.

[Ranger]

You and klingy are always at each others throat, and my meta on klingy is a little stale.

I am not. But to answer why: I recognize Klingoncelt usually votes players she does not know, but the

way

she voted in 9 felt like it was an overjustification. It's also a lie to say she always does. (Not to mention, in 167, she says she doesn't know most of the players, so why did her wording imply GoodNightMsGreen was the only one she didn't know?) 76 felt fake. In 111, she also doesn't give any commentary on any of the other players on my list. She's not scumhunting at this point, when she should be if she's town. 112 is avoiding taking a firm stance on Creature. In 113, she sheeps the easy-to-follow opinion stated by Nahdia, when with her previous experience with me, she should know I do this every game. (See also: why I'm so ticked off at you. Except you're town, whereas she's not.) Her lack of content was pointed out by Willowmeadow (one of the reasons I townread Willow in the first place, actually), but her excuse in 165 was "I don't play strong early-on". This does not match my experience with Klingoncelt. Maybe her reads aren't accurate, but bluntly they're rarely above average, neither better nor worse than any run-of-the-mill player. Yet she has always gotten them all the same, even D1. So, she

should

be obviously town, but isn't.

Her reasoning for her play having shifted doesn't work for me, either. I fully believe she's a different player now that she's recovered from the trauma...but the things sticking out like a sore thumb have nothing to do with anything I can see having been attributed to trauma in the first place. I can see things such as, say, a lack of emotional outburst as being relevant meta shifts from this. But my problems with her come from things that should be identical: no obvtowning, no strong reads, nothing.

271 fits with past experience of Klingoncelt's scumgame as how she gives reads. And, for people who keep criticizing

me

for a lack of reasons, they seem to conveniently have forgotten Klingoncelt also did this. The difference is: I always give no reasons. Klingoncelt gives reasons as town but often doesn't when scum.

Then, we enter into the Nahdia debate, where, again, Nahdia is completely correct: Klingoncelt is lying about her, and every attempt to justify the lie is simply restating the same (wrong) fact over and over again, in different wording, whereas Nahdia continues to build up the case against her using new points and new angles, which Klingoncelt continues to brush off with the same exact defense.

[Ranger]

You responded to that by teasing instead of giving a serious answer.

Yeah, because you asked me

on page one

.

We were still within the RVS.
I was still looking for reactions.
I got them later, in the form of Creature...but that was on page three. What would have happened if I had answered you on page one? I wouldn't have gotten that at all.

If I was asked after that, I would have answered. Of course I'm not going to answer on page one. On page

twenty-one

, on the other hand...

I know there are times when it's better to not say anything but putting in as little effort as possible is apparently what's getting you scumread.

This is literally the first game it's happened to me. Oh, I've been suspected before, but this is literally the first game I've EVER had where my minimalist attitude was the stated reason. So, it's not me, I can tell you that much.

[Ranger]

Sure, but what good is someone who has perfect accuracy but can't convey to the town why people are scum? It's useless.

Honestly, that's where I rely on others. I rely on others seeing the same as I do. If that fails, I rely on hopefully someone else in the game being aware of my general accuracy level. (Which admittedly has gotten much, much lower considering I'm a significantly weaker scumhunter in multiball and by some COSMIC coincidence I'm almost always playing multiball games. Still hovers at about 50% accuracy, though, which is around double the norm.) My philosophy there is, no point in being able to push a lynch through if the lynch you're pushing through is on town. So that's why accuracy trumps ability to me.

This isn't my scumgame, Ranger.

You know you might actually be right.

If I had been voting you, I'd move the vote right now.

Willow, do you think there is a consensus regarding Nahdia? And why are you waiting to see who is the popular target before deciding whether to switch your vote?

These two sentences are highly hypocritical when paired together. Guess what Something_Smart did, when it came to me and in

this very post

is doing with Nahdia? Yep, looking to see who is the popular target before switching votes.

I'll come back to Something_Smart's "case", but 523 is an accurate summary of what's in there.

[Ranger]

Since Something_Smart spoilered the case, I will give the same courtesy in responding.

Spoiler:

In this post she admits that she wasn't paying much attention when she made her readlists, and that strongly suggests that they are faked.

It would take a while to track down, but I have done this exact thing before at least two or three times as town, and not once as scum. It's not a towntell, it's a "no, seriously, these lists are fluid so sometimes I overlook things accidentally" tell, which I correct once I spot the misplaced read.

I don't get what the point of saying this is, she rarely tells where on the town-scum continuum each tier lies anyway.

As above, this is something I've done a few times as town and I don't think I've done as scum, yet is not a towntell; it's a "no, seriously, these lists are fluid so sometimes I feel I need to clarify" tell.

So does absurd confidence in reads.

Something_Smart has previous game experience which tells him this is actually a towntell of mine.

Not caring to actually sort people.

I already defended against this point, and it's a blatant lie. I called the fight boring

because it was TvT

.

Sarcasm's a scum defense mechanism (admittedly a weak tell).

There was no sarcasm in that post. I was dead serious with every line. Maybe a bit

snarky

with the vote line, but no sarcasm.

A stronger one is that Ranger claims to be so confident on her reads after the first 100 posts but suddenly can't see any motivation in any of the last 300 posts.

The early game is far more revealing than any other stage of the game. I learned a lot from the first hundred posts. The posts after that? For the most part have done absolutely nothing to change my stances. This is not something I am making up for this game. While I do not explain this

every

game, I explain it

almost

every game, the majority of which I am town in. So, not alignment indicative. (In fact, this is something Something_Smart might have good reason to already know, but I'd have to double-check that.)

If your job is, as you claim, to identify the scum and let others push them, then why have you not been actually trying to identify the scum?

Because I was under the impression I already had. I may not be correct, given Klingoncelt may be town. This, however, was a recent revelation. Prior to that, I was sure we were in a two-scum setup and it was {Klingoncelt, Creature's slot}. AKA, you. The scumread on her is gone, the scumread on you is strengthened. I will be reevaluating shortly to find the other scum.

[Ranger]

{GoodNightMsGreen, pisskop (sadly), Nahdia}
{acryon, Reubus Swagrid, Kop}
{zefiend, KainTepes, Masquerade, Willowmeadow}
{Klingoncelt}
{Something_Smart}
Momentarily.

I'm busy at the moment, so I won't have the time to fully reread the game to find the second scum (I am wrong about a townread), but this is where I'm standing at the moment: one scumread, one not-sure read, various townreads of which one is almost certainly wrong and I need to identify which one. I'm not budging on my top-tier, so that means I'm looking in {acryon, Reubus Swagrid, Kop, zefiend, KainTepes, Masquerade, Willowmeadow} to see which of them it is.

[Ranger]

Ranger, can you explain your townread on GoodNightMsGreen please?

I could, if it wasn't my #1 scumread who is the only one interested in the subject.

Since it is, well. I can say: plenty of people have figured out GoodNightMsGreen is town; I don't need to say why, so it's a waste of time. My time is better spent reevaluating which I'm about to do.

[Ranger]

If I had to make a guess off of page one, it would be zefiend's 17.
While it

could

be Kop, the post still looked townish. It also could be Masquerade, who there's mixed feelings about, but by gut I still say town. zefiend's RVS vote on me isn't necessarily

bad

, but here in "review to find the scum" mode, it does stick out as the most likely to be scum.

[Ranger]

zefiend's 92 was pretty town at the time, but I'm doing a reread and everyone is still townier.
Though, acryon's not much above.

[Ranger]

(Then again, the acryon-Creature exchange on page six does not look scum-scum, so there's that.)

[Ranger]

{GoodNightMsGreen, pisskop (sadly), Nahdia}
{acryon, Reubus Swagrid, Kop, Masquerade}
{KainTepes}
{Klingoncelt}
{Willowmeadow}
{zefiend}
{Something_Smart}

As of 8, this is where I'm at. acryon remains town, because his exchange with Creature did not feel scum-scum and his exchange with GoodNightMsGreen felt town-town. It was true then, it's still true now. Reubrus Swagrid has been making a lot of good pushes at a lot of the right times content-wise; I don't see him as scum. Kop's posts I have no problem with, which is usually a sign he's town. They look fairly good and the attacks against him have been poor. Masquerade is purely gut.
For KainTepes, I simply think he's town.
For Klingoncelt, I'm not going to lynch her any time soon.

Willowmeadow is a mixed bag. There's a lot in there that has given me bad gut vibes, but it's not very tangible, and Creature

did

have that early vote on Willow.

Which still leaves zefiend and Something_Smart.

[Ranger]

The Nahdia vs. Klingoncelt meta-fight

bores me

because I don't care for meta-reads much, and especially not on this site where I have barely any experience.

Wait a minute.

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaait a minute.

The acryon-GoodNightMsGreen fight is boring.

Still like the Creature pressure.

Hand-wave most relevant content in the game at the time and take potshot at target. Great scum efficiency, I'll give you that.

zefiend is scum.

[Ranger]

She doesn't waste time talking to her scumreads.

Wrong. I don't waste time talking to my scumreads about things that don't matter. But,

She won't answer you.

...Is right, because this just so happens to be one of those times, as of that post anyway, with nothing zefiend said prior to me typing this (I'm typing as I'm reading) being worth responding to.

Sorry, but arguing against an objective fact is futile.

Yes, which is what you are doing. It is objectively a fact I have listed every game. It is therefore also an objective fact I find listing to be content.

My case is based on evidence in this actual game.

Your case is based off of things that are not actually things. They come from the game, sure, but they mean nothing.

Your post dismisses all the legitimate content generated during the exchange for the purposes of leaving your vote parked on Creature. My post dismisses all the walls of meta-arguments for the purposes of explaining why my prodge post does not have any commentary on Kling vs. Nahdia.

Nah. My post dismissed the "content" generated in the exchange and left it where I thought it mattered. This is not a problem. Your post dismissed the "content" generated in the exchange and left it where you claimed it mattered. This, by itself, would not be a problem...if not for you calling me out for doing the exact same thing, ergo, you're a hypocrite. The two situations, no matter how much you claim they are different, are quite literally identical. Yet in one you call me out while in the other you're doing the same thing you called me out on. There's a contradiction no matter what.

[Ranger]

we all claim to scumread masque.

To the contrary.

Masquerade will flip town.

[Ranger]

Nahdia's 574 contains a lot of the reasons why Willowmeadow has dropped so substantially in my reads. It's hard to put anything actually tangible into there, but Willow does feel out of place.

[Ranger]

{GoodNightMsGreen, pisskop (sadly), Nahdia, Masquerade}
{acryon, Reubus Swagrid, Kop}
{KainTepes}
{Klingoncelt}
{Willowmeadow}
{Something_Smart, zefiend}

This is where I'm at.

[Ranger]

T;he time for new reads is over. Lynch needs to happen.

This is right.
But you're never getting that lynch through on me, pisskop.
Try elsewhere.

Spoiler alert: the only lynch that has any chance of going through is Something_Smart.

[Ranger]

Nonsnese. You can go through

That would require:
-All of {acryon, Kop, Reubus Swagrid} to vote/keep votes on me, when that is unlikely to happen.
-KainTepes to lolvote/hammer me, which may not happen if he's siteflaking which he kind-of looks like he is (I haven't seen him post in days I'm pretty sure?).
-Your vote not to move.
-Both Something_Smart and zefiend voting/keeping votes on me.

I'm not getting lynched.

[Ranger]

Speaking of Kain:

Mod, he's due for a prod.

[Ranger]

And on that note:

Mod, Reubus Swagrid and Kop are also due for prods.

[Ranger]

Yeah those last 2 posts by Nahdia are kinda icky.

Not really, no.

[Ranger]

Reubus Swagrid has been shot and was a Town 1-shot Vigilante
ɀefiend has been shot and was a Mafia Goon

That was the worst scum shot possible given how even if Reubus was going to be conftown, he was 1x and I was actually getting suspicious of the exact timing of his failed hammer. (If you want to know why: Reubus is obviously a gimicky alt. If he was, say, Rob13, I was planning on

power lynching

him for the one minute difference.)
It is also the best possible shot he could have made, too.

So, it's pretty clear we're dealing with a full house now in scum. I'll do some exact number crunching to confirm, but we've definitely got 3 mafiates, the question being whether we have 3 scum and a serial killer with a missing kill (be it from redundancy or a failure), or just the three scum. The latter's what I'm hoping for, but anyway,

VOTE: Something_Smart.

Nothing has changed since yesterday. He's still scum.

My reads right now look something like this:
{GoodNightMsGreen}
{pisskop (sadly), Nahdia, Masquerade}
{acryon, Kop, KainTepes}
{Klingoncelt}
{Willowmeadow}
{Something_Smart}

This is GoodNightMsGreen shooting

way

up in the town list. The second tier is "never gonna get lynched, ever", GoodNightMsGreen is just now even more town than

that

.
The third tier is where I'm reviewing: assume town for now, but I do need a second look. Klingoncelt is not groupscum; she tried to push the lynch onto Something_Smart harder than just about anyone else. The one and only question (and why she's so low) is if she'd be the serial killer, though I'm inclined to think the answer is no, she isn't.

Willowmeadow is currently my pick for Something_Smart's partner.

[Ranger]

i copped ss

Which just makes the job all the easier to do.

acryon's 627 makes it

possible

he's the third scum, though I'm far from positive on this.

[Ranger]

688 is solidifying my thoughts, actually.

[Ranger]

My current thinking is actually Willowmeadow as a serial killer, albeit possible as the third mafiate.

[Ranger]

698 solidifies the idea to me.

[Ranger]

I may have hammered.

Doesn't matter too much, though it would mean less time to talk. (If you're gonna claim a cop guilty on someone, wait until

after

the person who was guaranteed to vote them 100% has placed their vote. :P)

Game's pretty much solved.

{GoodNightMsGreen, pisskop}
{Nahdia, Masquerade, Klingoncelt}
{Kop, KainTepes}
{Willowmeadow, acryon}
{Something_Smart}

Follow this, and we win the game.

[Ranger]

Reading Reubus's iso, I don't see any breadcrumb or any indication which points a sign saying, "I was killed by playername!"
To me, I think this means lurker-kill.
That's actually more likely a target for a serial killer.
So my current thoughts are: mafia kill missing, Reubus Swagrid as a serial kill, zefiend was Reubus vigging.

[Ranger]

Well that is great news.

Yes, it is.

Let's keep the momentum going, shall we?

Remember how I said one of {acryon, Willowmeadow} was scum? Well, with that Something_Smart flip, should be obvious that

both

are.

VOTE: acryon.

[Ranger]

wtf ranger :(
you voted without looking at the previews?

When catching up on a game, I ignore the previews: they contain information I don't want to know yet.
The only times I pay attention to the previews are when I'm either replacing into the game and reading the thread (I keep up to date on current events in case I cannot finish reading the game in time) or when I'm rereading a game. Even then, I tend to hit submit on my post first, and

then

read the contemporary post, rather than reading it in the preview-edit window.

And, hey. You shouldn't complain too much; I DID hammer an anti-town player!

[Ranger]

We cant clear you when you start sk hunting and hypothetgising that mafia kills got blocked

We can when it's happened twice now, though!

Seriously. We now have confirmation: during N1, we had an SK-kill, a mafia-kill, and a 1x vig kill (probably) floating around.
Instead of three bodies, we got two.
During N2, we had a mafia kill floating around.
Instead of a body, we all lived.

So it's pretty obvious from this that the mafia kill, for whatever reason, has failed. Incidentally, my reads remain unchanged from yesterday:
{GoodNightMsGreen, pisskop}
{Nahdia, Masquerade, Klingoncelt}
{Kop, KainTepes}
{Willowmeadow, acryon}

[Ranger]

By the way, pisskop: you're a full cop, right?

Because if so, then that would make the most likely setup be CCVXTTT, where X is an unknown town role (not M, because that'd have been announced, so either R or D). This is FAR more likely than XXXXXXT. But we know that it must be one of the two if you're a full cop, because with a confirmed serial killer, the options are limited to that because the only way to get five Ts is if you're a 1x cop and there's no role to explain the failure of successful nightkill(s).

So, we've either got a doctor or a roleblocker in play right now. If it's a roleblocker, they have someone confirmed as scum, and if that player is anyone other than acryon, they would presumably have spoken up. If we lynch the scum RB today, then the roleblocker gets elevated up to a cop in power, equal to your actual copness. If it's a doctor, then if we lynch the roleblocker today, we have follow-the-cop abilities.

[Ranger]

It's a semi-open.
A serial killer means we have an odd number of Ts:
T, TTT, TTTTT, or TTTTTTT.
In an all-T setup, we'd have nothing but VTs. We know this is not the case.
In a five-T setup, we'd have a serial killer, two mafia (I believe 2 goons, need to double-check; could be Goon+Godfather, but this is irrelevant anyway), and then two letters, in this case, V for 1-shot vigilante, and C for 1-shot cop. However, this does not offer an explanation for why there has been a missing kill each night, and if you're a full cop you know this can't be possible anyway.
In a one-T setup, we'd have a much stronger scumteam, but we'd also have more power roles than I think we have. It's not impossible, but it's improbable.
Therefore, the most likely setup is three Ts: Mafia Goon x2, Mafia Roleblocker, Serial Killer, full cop, 1x vig, and either a doctor or a roleblocker, because these are the only two roles that explain missing kills. (CCC would be possible, but leaves the kill problem. M is impossible, because an IC would be announced at game start. VVV is impossible because that takes us to even numbers; MM is impossible because that

also

takes us to even numbers, so no full-vig, and no masons.)

[Ranger]

I wouldn't mind a Kingoncelt wagon.

If I'm wrong about Willowmeadow being acryon's partner, I'd look at Kop next.

But Klingoncelt is hard-town.

Trust me.

[Ranger]

Would like an explanation.

Simple interactions. 96 for instance about zefiend. 370 and 378 name acryon as scum, but you do nothing to push him. In fact, your entire push this game has been on weaker players who seem like easy targets (e.g. Nahdia), and when new evidence comes up that makes it unlikely for them to be scum (e.g. zefiend's scum flip), you continue to push them anyway. Speaking of push, your push does not always match your stated reads, such as when you listed me and acryon as the strongest scumreads yet your vote never left Nahdia.

acryon is actually mostly an individual scumread to be perfectly honest.

[Ranger]

{GoodNightMsGreen, pisskop, Klingoncelt, Masquerade}
{Nahdia}
{KainTepes}
{Kop}
{Willowmeadow, acryon}

I feel comfortable with this.

[Ranger]

Also, obviously,

V/LA over Easter weekend.

[Ranger]

PERCEIVED weaker players who seem like easy targets. <3
I know you're not.

But to scum you may look that way.

[Ranger]

Ranger has been playing opportunist with his posting.

How is it you've played this many games with me and you're still calling me a 'he', anyway? My gender's right on my profile.

But apparently, pursuing Something_Smart on D1 before anyone else did was opportunistic, as was calling zefiend our flipped scum as such.

You vote without looking at the preview?

Yep! I have absolutely zero regard for what votes are when I cast a vote. If it's a vote I would regret, I would not be casting the vote in the first place, so it doesn't matter if it's a hammer vote. Or L-1, or L-2, or a vanity vote. It really doesn't matter what the votecount is. My vote is going to be made when I make it, whenever that is, whatever the consequence.

[Ranger]

But I don't think Ranger makes that mistake.

Of course I don't make a mistake like that.

But that implies hammering was a mistake.

It wasn't.

The hammer was

accidental

. I was unaware I was casting it. It was not a mistake, however, and had I caught up with the game before voting I very likely would have still cast the vote all the same, instead of accidentally doing so intentionally. As I said. If I cast a vote, it is never something I would regret.

She even presented the idea that she doesn't preview because she doesn't want new posts to affect her catch-up thoughts.

And? I have multiple games as both alignments that prove I post stream-of-consciousness as I catch up.


The switch to KainTepes is switching from scum onto a player much less likely to be scum. acryon's wagon built up gradually over the day. If anything, that he wasn't lynched like Something_Smart was goes to show how the wagon on him is driven by town, not scum.

[Ranger]

ranger i know some people get the willies from lining up lynches if i flip back to acryon today will you lynch Kain with me tomorrow? :3

I'm sorry, but I cannot make that promise.

It does actually matter, and that is 1) a very stupid personal rule causing potential detriment to town and 2) seemingly contradictory to your otherwise calculated playstyle.

I don't even know why you keep saying I've got a calculated playstyle. I mostly do what I feel like, and what I feel like doing most of the time is not caring.

[Ranger]

And why would scum try to wagon a buddy Day 1, from the very start? That's just insane. No matter how good a tactic like bussing can be, no scumteam will want their buddies in any kind of danger Day 1.

Especially in a game where there are multiple PRs that could expose them, like, oh, saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay, a serial killer thinking they're shooting town (didn't happen, but possible!), a 1x vig (did happen!), a cop (didn't happen, but could!), and whatever other PR(s) we know we have, either RB (could block them, exposing them) or doctor (can't expose them, but can protect a town player who could).

Ranger has been largely abscent too

How many games will people use this accusation before they realize my schedule?

I come in and post, once or twice a day. Every day. I come in and post content every day when posting. Even when I say, "nothing's changed", that itself is content because I'm informing the town that there is nothing useful in the talk which has happened, in the hopes that players will then

start

giving content which is useful. The times I post may not line up with standard activity, in fact they rarely do; by the time I post, most are done with mafiascum for the day. This in no way means I am EVER absent from ANY game. I will always come to a game within 12-20 hours. Always. Without fail. Check the time stamps on my posts if you don't believe me. This game, past games, other present games, literally anywhere. A few posts in quick succession to get caught up, then a large gap, usually over half a day, then another few quick posts in succession to get caught back up, rinse, repeat.

[Ranger]

If you assume town-acryon, who do you think is scum?

Easy. Willowmeadow and Kop.

Willowmeadow for the lackluster posting.
If you try accusing

me

of being largely absent, iso Willowmeadow.
No, seriously. Try an accusation of me being largely absent when comparing my iso to Willowmeadow's.

Kop for the increasingly-suspicious posting.

[Ranger]

Do you have an updated reads list to reflec thte fact that whatshisnutts is an SK?

My reads did not change with the flip. It went from thinking one of {acryon, Willowmeadow} was scum and the other was the SK to thinking

both

were scum.

[Ranger]

So,

{GoodNightMsGreen, pisskop, Klingoncelt, Masquerade}
{Nahdia}
{KainTepes}
{Kop}
{Willowmeadow, acryon}

^Nothing changed from this.
For various reasons, the top tier is absolute 100% confirmed town to me.
Nahdia is a

very

strong townread of mine.
KainTepes is a weak townread, but is still on the positive side of null to me.

If I'm wrong on acryon (and it'd be acryon I'd be wrong on, not Willowmeadow), then Kop would be scum.

[Ranger]

wtf why am i not 100% confirmed town anymore ive been demoted

You weren't demoted, the others just got promoted. They're 100% town, you're 98% town.

[Ranger]

If acryon hasn't been lynched:
UNVOTE: acryon
VOTE: Willowmeadow.

I actually believe he thought he was lynched.

[Ranger]

Id be willing to lynch ranger. This is a lot more like her scum game.

Yeah, no.

This is the DEFINITION of my town game.

Everything I've said is said with good reason.

GoodNightMsGreen is 100% town.
You are, sadly, also town.
Masquerade is 100% town.
Klingoncelt is also 100% town.

These are all hard facts.
Nahdia is a strong townread.
I now also believe acryon is town.
The fake-hammer by KainTepes also looked town.
POE does the rest: Willowmeadow and Kop.

[Ranger]

{GoodNightMsGreen, pisskop, Klingoncelt, Masquerade}
{Nahdia}
{KainTepes, acron}
{Willowmeadow, Kop}

So, {confirmed town, very strong town, townread, scum}.

[Ranger]

I do agree, day's kind-of stalled, here.