Open 635 - JK9++ (Game Over)

[Ranger]

VOTE: TheShowMustGoOn.

Be back in a moment to read the rest of page one, but this is a fine starting point.

[Ranger]

{Postie, Aeronaut, Heartless}
{Spiffeh, Witch_Hunter, davesaz}
{SirCakez, Titus}
{ConManMick}
{3dicerolling}
{TheShowMustGoOn}

One.

[Ranger]

{Postie, Aeronaut, Heartless}
{Spiffeh, Witch_Hunter, davesaz, Anarchy Shard}
{SirCakez, Titus}
{3dicerolling, ConManMick}
{TheShowMustGoOn}

Two.

[Ranger]

wow... that rvs was pretty depressing...

What, that it ended so soon?

If you'd like, I can cast a joke vote, but being serious: TheShowMustGoOn is scum.

[Ranger]

{Postie, Aeronaut, Heartless}
{Spiffeh, Witch_Hunter, davesaz, Anarchy Shard}
{SirCakez, Titus}
{Minsc and Boo}
{3dicerolling, ConManMick}
{TheShowMustGoOn}

Four.

[Ranger]

I am positive Heartless is scum

I'm like 95% certain you're not saying this seriously.

Be it a joke or a reaction.

But in the off chance that you actually are?

Do forgive me if I don't take YOUR word for it.

[Ranger]

{Postie, Aeronaut, Heartless}
{Spiffeh, Witch_Hunter, davesaz, Anarchy Shard}
{Titus}
{SirCakez}
{Minsc and Boo}
{3dicerolling, ConManMick}
{TheShowMustGoOn}

Six.

[Ranger]

{Postie, Aeronaut, Heartless}
{Spiffeh, Witch_Hunter, davesaz, Anarchy Shard}
{Titus}
{SirCakez}
{Minsc and Boo}
{ConManMick}
{TheShowMustGoOn, 3dicerolling}

Seven.

[Ranger]

Actually.

{Postie, Aeronaut, Heartless}
{Spiffeh, Witch_Hunter, davesaz, Anarchy Shard}
{Titus}
{SirCakez}
{Minsc and Boo}
{ConManMick, TheShowMustGoOn}
{3dicerolling}

As of 185.

VOTE: 3dicerolling.

[Ranger]

{Postie, Aeronaut, Heartless}
{Spiffeh, Witch_Hunter, davesaz, Anarchy Shard}
{Titus, SirCakez}
{Minsc and Boo, TheShowMustGoOn}
{ConManMick}
{3dicerolling}

Eight.

[Ranger]

Ranger, Minsc and Boo is Titus, alt slip

Did not know that. In that case:
{Postie, Aeronaut, Heartless}
{Spiffeh, Witch_Hunter, davesaz, Anarchy Shard}
{SirCakez}
{Titus, TheShowMustGoOn}
{3dicerolling, ConManMick}

Yes, I know, I put Titus in the same tier as RC, I'm quite aware. The read there is basically "one scum, other either not or is-SK".

Both you and 3dr are totally scum either way, though.

[Ranger]

I quoted my alt slip in the next post. How could you not know that?

I didn't notice.

Really, what motivation is there to lie?

I don't like the discredit nor do I really like her general tone.

I have

very good reason

for saying that to Spiffeh.

Actually it's weird Ranger doubts I seriously believe in my Heartless push
Yet has me decently high on her reads list

I fail to see how the two are related. You are a townread. Your Heartless push did not, initially, seem serious. It looked like either you were joking, or that you were doing reactions. Maybe both.

Ranger, why are you scumreading me and if you're scumreading me why are you voting for someone else? I would think you'd care more about me than that.

The scumread comes from experience. I'm not as certain now; your later posting improved. Thus, why voting someone else. And, while good frenemies we may be, contrary to what your opinion of my opinion on you seems to be, you don't receive any particularly special treatment. I'll sort you as I sort you. Same as every other player. I hold

concern

over you, sure, always will, but your name does not make your slot instantly "oh, must read this NOW" in my priorities.

Then discredits if serious, as if the read is bad because you suggested it

Not bad because Spiffeh suggested it. Bad because of how he suggested it. Namely, saying he's positive they're scum. That bit? Dead serious about. Like I said. I have VERY good reason to say that.

explaining why aero (and probably postie) are so high in this list will probably go a ways towards reducing needless you/tth friction and will at least get some substance besides /arms crossed and humphing

Eh, I definitely will, but right now feels a bit too early, sorry. Try in like 24-72 hours or so? By then the thread will have matured enough that it's more likely I'll be in a divulgatory mood. Shouldn't be hard to guess, though. Postie's obvtown, liked Aeronaut's posting.

{Postie, Aeronaut, Heartless}
{Spiffeh, Witch_Hunter, davesaz, Anarchy Shard}
{SirCakez}
{davesaz}
{Titus, TheShowMustGoOn}
{3dicerolling, ConManMick}

[Ranger]

How am I at the top of your list here, after having made literally one RVS post? I should have been Null at best, unless there's something you saw in that post that was undeniably town.

First game with me, I take it?

[Ranger]

I'd think after what, 4 town losses to me, you'd pay more attention to me </3

Five, actually. One was really not my fault (not MY fault when town players are literally doing what scum would and post a scumslip), and

two

I called you scum in correctly. (One you killed me for, the other was won by a mislynch during lylo.) The third had you pseudocleared and you nightkilled me before I could read your play. Only one of those games was my fault, and in my defense, I had a fairly good interactive tell reason to believe it wasn't you.

So, no, not particularly. I lose to scum players all the time, mostly thanks to being dead already. If you're scum, you'll nightkill me. If for some reason you don't, I'll catch you. It's pretty much that simple.

[Ranger]

Why are you scumreading me though?

Didn't share on Aeronaut/Postie, not gonna share right now on you, either. You have the timeline; early content looked bad, later content was better. Also, liking the Titus push more than originally.

[Ranger]

I'll say like 5 more super nice things about you if you explain why you're scumreading me! You can add them to your ego-page-of-RC-saying-nice-things-about-you.

Eh, honestly considering deleting that page. (And surprised people actually

know

about it. That means they checked out my wiki

and

clicked on the quotes section.) It was mostly made out of boredom, with the intention of highlighting notable characteristics of my play, but at the time I made it the notable characteristics of my play were "Ranger, you are

really, really awesome

and have huge potential". That's since changed; the notable parts of my play are now mostly notable parts of my actual

play

, and yet, the page remains as it was, and now might give off the wrong impression. I don't want to deal with people thinking I have a big ego; I will stubbornly push reads, but my mantra is always "expect to be wrong, but assuming that is useless".

[Ranger]

Speaking of my wiki, it's a little out of date at the moment; it doesn't have this game in it and I have had a couple games end in the last 24 hours, not to mention, a couple others I need to edit the current status of. I'm leaving to eat dinner at the moment, so it'll have to wait until I come back; this is mostly a note so I don't forget about it.

[Ranger]

{Aeronaut, Heartless}
{Ranger}
{Anarchy}
~null~
{ConManMick}
{Spiffeh}
{Titus, Postie}

So...why, exactly, am I so high? I definitely wasn't that high before. (I mean, I'm one to talk, you raised in my own list, but I want to know WHY I went so high in yours.)

[Ranger]

Ranger I'm nearly certain is town but if she like scumclaimed I might change that read.

I'm pretty sure if I literally claimed scum I would probably be town. :P

(Show Must Go On, Anarchy Shard, Heartless)
(Ranger, Spiffeh)
(Witch Hunter, 3dice, Aero, Postie)
(Dave, ConManMick)
(Titus)

I like this for the most part.

[Ranger]

Town: The Show Must Go On, Anarchy Shard, Spiffeh, Witch_Hunter, SirCakez, Aeronaut
The Rest: 3dicerolling, ConManMick, Titus, davesaz
Delegate to Antihero: Ranger, Postie

For delegating your read on me to Antihero.

You sure seem to have reads like mine.

Specifically,
{Postie, Aeronaut, Heartless, Anarchy Shard}
{Spiffeh, Witch_Hunter, davesaz, SirCakez}
{TheShowMustGoOn}
{davesaz}
{Titus}
{3dicerolling, ConManMick}
This is where I'm at.

[Ranger]

You could join me on ConManMick.
Or we could start a 3dice wagon.

Both are options.

[Ranger]

is there a reason you're not totally townreading me here?

Well, for a start?

ftr I hate the fact that I keep rolling scum in games with you because I really do like playing with you when you're town.

This sounds like you rolled scum and are sad I'm town.

Also, you're being really nice to me and I don't think I've ever seen you be nice to me when you were alive as town. (Sure, after you die, but not before.)

can you walk me through your 3dice scumread?

Specifics, I guess, but the case against him has largely already been made by others.

[Ranger]

originally i didnt remember anything of conmans so i was ok w lynching him but 536 actually isnt terrible

Maybe it's not terrible, but it's certainly not a good post. I'd argue below null even; it's definitely not town posting.

[Ranger]

I'm town, you're town, please work with me?

If I can, yes.

I actually do think you're town now.
Doesn't necessarily mean I think your reads are better than mine, though. :P

{ConManMick, 3dicerolling, Titus} is my lynch pool at the moment.

Really like the CMM wagon on page 26, hoping it's still around when I get caught up so I can join.

[Ranger]

I really need to see some reasoning from you. This could be a good place to start...?

My internet's been giving me some trouble again, so probably not today. Today I'm in "try not to flake from any games" mode, meaning I'm going to have just enough time to catch up in the thread.

But sure. Remind me tomorrow, and I'll answer you then.

[Ranger]

Spiffeh feels like a counterwagon to ConManMick for what it's worth.

[Ranger]

Ooh we got a bus vote. VOTE: Cakey

VOTE: Spiffeh
From what I've read, I've been feeling this.

I'm honestly not sure which of these is

worse

, but both of these are just bad. Pure, simple, bad. I seriously, seriously would be happy with any of the three lynched. They're all scum.

[Ranger]

Is it bad that I think Ranger might be scum?

Worded like this, no.

If you suddenly say "Ranger is scum, trust me", then yes.

[Ranger]

so uncertainty is fine for you, confidence isn't? is this a thing with Spiffeh specifically?

Yes.

Catching up now (geez you said a lot in the last 24 hours), have a promise to fulfill when I'm done, though depending on timing, I may take a while to get it done. (Rather busy multitasking right now.)

[Ranger]

I was the doctor.

I very much sincerely doubt this.

I also very much sincerely doubt Titus legitimately thought she was hammered.

VOTE: Titus.

[Ranger]

OK so cakez is at L-2 L-3. I really don't like his last vote post. Left room for the possibility of an accidental hammer. I think I'll put my vote here. VOTE: SirCakez
L-1
PEDIT L-2

Titus, 3dicerolling, and ConManMick are quite literally having a contest to see who can cast the worst vote in the thread.

Currently, ConManMick is winning with this.

[Ranger]

or wait for ranger to hammer whenever she gets on i guess

I never hammer intentionally.

I don't read to see current posts when casting a vote, so I could hammer accidentally (for instance, if Titus was at L-1, I wouldn't have known), but I never hammer intentionally unless I'm convinced all the productive conversation for the day has been done.

We're probably near that point, but not at it yet. For instance, I owe you explanations for my reads.

[Ranger]

page 29 is Kodak Moment

Agreed. <3 RC, Antihero.

or wait for ranger to hammer whenever she gets on i guess

I never hammer intentionally.

I don't read to see current posts when casting a vote, so I could hammer accidentally (for instance, if Titus was at L-1, I wouldn't have known), but I never hammer intentionally unless I'm convinced all the productive conversation for the day has been done.

We're probably near that point, but not at it yet. For instance, I owe you explanations for my reads.

[Ranger]

We're not lynching a claimed doc today
Period

Sadly, you're probably right.

But my Titus vote's still at least symbolic.

I do not buy her doctor claim.

At all.

[Ranger]

Ranger it's over

:(

I mean, we lynched scum, so happyface.

But my Titus vote was after the hammer, so it won't be counted, meaning sadface. Need to finish reading, will try to get the reads up before lock.

[Ranger]

{Postie, Aeronaut, Heartless, Anarchy Shard}
{Spiffeh, Witch_Hunter, davesaz, SirCakez, TheShowMustGoOn}
{davesaz}
{3dicerolling, ConManMick, Titus}

I realize davesaz is on there twice, I'll have to review his posts to tell which of those is the accurate one, but this is my reads right now more or less. Explanations will be written as I can make them, starting now.

[Ranger]

For a start: while I wasn't fond of 3dice's RVS posts even when looked at in general, the 6/11/32 progression was absolutely horrible.

None of his posts have left the memorable feeling I associate with 3dice when he's town, and are much closer tonality-wise to what I'd expect from him when he's scum. His reads come across as fake, like [post]154, without evolution. I liked Heartless's case in 265, and 3dicerolling, who was scumreading them allegedly, posted as if Heartless was not a scumread in 292, showing dissonance. 749 was one of the worst three votes in the entire thread, and then, finishing it off, you get 3dicerolling knowing Titus was breadcrumbing doctor. Yet there was no Titus townread stated prior to the claim, AND there was not obvious doctor 'crumbs from Titus. I'm not completely sure if 3dice was scum looking for 'crumbs and found Titus (in which case, Titus would be town) or Titus is 3dicerolling's scumbuddy and she said she was going to claim doctor and 3dicerolling was expecting to find 'crumbs that way (this is what I believe), but NO way does this narrative make sense with 3dice as town.

[Ranger]

For a start: while I wasn't fond of 3dice's RVS posts even when looked at in general, the 6/11/32 progression was absolutely horrible.

None of his posts have left the memorable feeling I associate with 3dice when he's town, and are much closer tonality-wise to what I'd expect from him when he's scum. His reads come across as fake, like 154, without evolution. I liked Heartless's case in 265, and 3dicerolling, who was scumreading them allegedly, posted as if Heartless was not a scumread in 292, showing dissonance. 749 was one of the worst three votes in the entire thread, and then, finishing it off, you get 3dicerolling knowing Titus was breadcrumbing doctor. Yet there was no Titus townread stated prior to the claim, AND there was not obvious doctor 'crumbs from Titus. I'm not completely sure if 3dice was scum looking for 'crumbs and found Titus (in which case, Titus would be town) or Titus is 3dicerolling's scumbuddy and she said she was going to claim doctor and 3dicerolling was expecting to find 'crumbs that way (this is what I believe), but NO way does this narrative make sense with 3dice as town.

^Tag fix.

[Ranger]

Do you think I would say those things to you if I was scum?

Probably not, but I'm not absolutely sure.

Aeronaut, Heartless, and Anarchy Shard are all not moving down ever, Postie could be in either, and you could be either, with Spiffeh, Witch_Hunter, and SirCakez all being in their tier for good reason. (Though SirCakez

might

move up, I'll let you know when I get to that iso.) davesaz maybe belonging there, or maybe being below them, too. (Again, I'll let you know when I iso them, I need to actually be reading the posts for the most accurate read.)

[Ranger]

Much as we work together well, RC, I am not you; flattery doesn't get you anywhere. :P

[Ranger]

Anyway, for Aeronaut, 10 immediately made me instantly go, "town". As far as RVS posts go, it's hard to get more town than what he presented there.

Absolutely nothing he's done since then has diminished that read in any way.

To the contrary, everything he's posted has strengthened it. I absolutely love his catch-up posting. While I haven't agreed with all his reads, I've understood where most of them have come from, too. Things like seeing why he would scumread SirCakez (even though I don't) and strongly agreeing with an AnarchyShard townread. He's asking good questions, and pushing a lot of good places. Just one example was the way he questioned my townread on him. While it's not impossible for scum to question a townread on them, the

way

he questioned it felt immensely town.

I could continue, but all-in-all, he's earned his spot as one of my strongest townreads.

[Ranger]

Please share with the class a game you played with me where I am scum.

Depending on your definition of scum...several. Cult, some other third party at least once I believe, mafia at least once (one blitz), maybe twice...would have to track them down. But they exist, I have played them, so yes my statement stands.

[Ranger]

For Anarchy Shard, I loved their entrance in 27. 38 was a

great

post. Call me a sucker, but I liked the discussion in 42/46 as well. The brutal honesty in 48 was great, too. 53 comes across as genuine, and I don't think they wouldn't know the setup as scum. The tone in 198 was great as well. 394 was a great post, too, and I also liked the vote they laid down in the first place. (Yes, my read on RC has since changed, but at that point in the thread, I was scumreading them and Anarchy Shard was seeing the same thing.) 628 and 639 both contain good votes and good reasoning. 672 was valid.

All-in-all, I guess it's not so much what content they've given as much as it is how they're posting, but they're very strongly a townread.

[Ranger]

Skipping ConManMick since he's lynched already, but suffice to say, he was a strong scumread of mine.
For davesaz, I liked 22. It was a fairly clever RVS, though not one which instantly elevated him to definitely-town. 254 was a decent entrance into the game. 546 was a very solid point against 3dicerolling, as I noted in my own case. (I forgot davesaz said it first, otherwise I would have referenced him in my 3dice case.) His next vote, 649, was also solid, on ConManMick. I did like 800 too, and overall, tonality-wise, davesaz feels sincere in his scumhunting. I'm not absolutely sure about his alignment, but he's in the second-highest tier in my reads for sure.

[Ranger]

you're laying it on really thick. are you always like this?

Actually, no. I'm only like this when I'm directly requested to explain my reads and am in the mood to do so.

Both conditions are true.

[Ranger]

in that case, you sound like you're in a very good mood!

I am, actually!

Earlier in the week I was really bitter (not without very good reason, lost at least two games from being lynched and at least one of them was a ridiculously stupid mislynch when I got mislynched over a person who was LITERALLY MOD CONFIRMED SCUM in lylo), but I've actually been feeling energetic lately!

[Ranger]

Also...does anyone actually still think Heartless is scum?

If not, I'm just going to skip them unless they want me to stroke their ego by pointing out how town they are. <3

[Ranger]

For Postie, I just got the exact same feeling from her posts as I did in Longnight. The RVS vote in 7 was ridiculously good. I liked 91. 101/106, when defending herself, also felt good tonality-wise. From there, we really begin the vast majority of Postie's iso, which is Postie vs. RC, and in that fight, Postie ended up looking town. (RC also ended up as town, for different reasons.) I just generally like Postie's content and pushes; they all feel sincere.

[Ranger]

For SirCakez, 12, 15, and 17 are all good RVS posting. I liked 141 as well. The tone in 193 was the kind of snark I'd expect from him if he were town, too. 213 was another I liked. 319 was valid as well. 325 continues this. I loved 362 and 367 for the same reason as 193. The real seller though is his reads in 464. SirCakez and I tend to have similar reads when we're both town, and his were really,

really

close to my own. 647 was great and excellently timed at that, as ConManMick began scumming the thread up. I could go on, but basically: while I'd need to check scum games to be absolutely sure, I have a fairly good idea of what SirCakez's towngame is like, and it is very much like his play this game; all indicators point him that way, so I am in fact moving him up to my top tier.

[Ranger]

For Spiffeh, 8 was a solid RVS, but not enough to scream "definitely town". The rest of his posting there was

weaker

, but still comes across as looking town to me by gut. Aside from that, it's hard to really explain the townread there. I generally see his tone as looking town, and his pushes feel sincere, but I can't pinpoint exactly why, and honestly I'm not that familiar with Spiffeh's scum game; I mostly know his town game. This does have at least a superficial resemblance to what I understand to be his towngame, with posts like 100, 105, 109, 111, 118, 121, 127, 144, 152, 160, maybe some others around here too, 182, 212, 263 (I loved the humor there, too), 448, 473 (which was a post I agreed with), 479, a few others, 645, 678, and 780 among others. However, because I don't know Spiffeh well enough, I don't have an idea of whether he is capable of posting those things if he were scum, and my instincts tell me he could. I still feel like he's town, but I don't have the same confidence in it as my stronger townreads.

[Ranger]

For The Show Must Go On, I wasn't particularly fond of 4, but the real clincher was the following 5, which felt absolutely horrendous. 21 felt like classical RC-bussing to me. So did 25. The strong push against Titus gave me severe deja vu of White Flag, and the push against Postie felt similar, though to RC's credit: I've never seen him simultaneously press

two

people at the same time when scum. (And, eventually, the way his reads evolved on them both felt natural; he didn't get stuck in a death-tunnel on them.) While at the time, the push felt heavy-handed, in hindsight, I actually agree on his Titus scumread, so it doesn't look as bad given that.

My read on him began to improve in 185, though. Looking at it, I forget the exact reason, but it was around this time that I thought he could actually be town. I think it had to do with his Spiffeh vote, and the logic behind it feeling solid, albeit something I disagreed with alignment-wise. Basically, I felt RC had a point about Spiffeh in regards to RC's townread on Heartless, in spite of me thinking Spiffeh is town. It also showed he wasn't simply mimicking his town meta of tunneling; he was actually

thinking

, and that's why I started considering him as town.

His posts only get better from there. 259 fits with what my understanding of RC's understanding of me is. The posts around 281 felt good as well, when interacting with Heartless. There are many posts in the following that also look town when reviewing him, though admittedly, I hated this line:

ftr I hate the fact that I keep rolling scum in games with you because I really do like playing with you when you're town. and I hate vice versa and modkills </3

But then, we get 627. That one really, REALLY looked town. Seriously,

seriously

town. And that's when the townread took off. Since then, his posts have continued to be good, and I've liked a lot of his pushes.

[Ranger]

this feels horrible.

I

see

it.
I really, really do.

I get where you're coming from with it.

But.

I don't think Spiffeh's actually scum in spite of it.

What I

do

think is 3dicerolling is being opportunistic with 1214 and none of his posts today have been good.
VOTE: 3dicerolling.

[Ranger]

Titus is also probably scum

No duh.

[Ranger]

Ranger, walk me through 3dice again?

A bit too busy at the moment, but later, sure.

[Ranger]

I feel like she's addressing my posts, but not really addressing me as a player.

Well, what are you expecting me to do? Say, "yo, 3dice, your posts here, here, and here make me think you're scum"?

I think you're scum.

I'm voting you.

I'll talk when you post something I feel like responding to.

Otherwise, I won't.

That simple.

[Ranger]

Dave do something to scumhunt
That Aero vote is horrific

This.

Though, davesaz is still town.

[Ranger]

Can everyone in this game make a reads list in their next post for me please?

I'm pretty sure it'd be nearly identical to my last? You might be moving up to the top tier, really liked some of your recent posting, but otherwise, probably about the same. Flips didn't really change much.

3dicerolling is still scum; Titus is still confirmed scum.

[Ranger]

Ranger u drew Scum again? You oughta know I am town here.

Uh-huh.

Says miss doctor claim.

You're scum.

It's not that hard to see.

It kinda feels like everyone has bumped 3duce down to a scum read because of my tunnel early on and idk how to feel

Oi! I was scumreading 3dicerolling

long

before today. I made that twilight-case on him and everything.

For the record: Postie's kinda...dropping in my list right now. The posts like 1309 just...don't give the strong town vibe I'd expect from her.

[Ranger]

{Aeronaut, Anarchy Shard, TheShowMustGoOn}
{Spiffeh, Rhaegar, davesaz, SirCakez, Postie}
{3dicerolling, Titus}

It wouldn't surprise me if we're in a two-scum-only setup right now. It's pretty likely we're not in a scum-SK setup given only one death last night. Not definitive, sure, but pretty likely.

[Ranger]

Actually.

I think I want to reorder that list a bit.

{Aeronaut, Anarchy Shard, TheShowMustGoOn}
{Spiffeh, davesaz, SirCakez}
{Rhaegar, Postie, Spiffeh}
{3dicerolling, Titus}

Yes, I put Spiffeh on there twice. That's because I'm not sure which of the two tiers he belongs in, but I didn't want to place him in a lone tier separating the two tiers given how close the tiers are together.

[Ranger]

Spiffeh wouldn't NK Heartless imo. I'd see him killing RC or Ranger maybe.

Not a chance.

Spiffeh would kill...someone else. Maybe Aeronaut. Definitely not me, I haven't earned that status from him.

[Ranger]

like seriously though Ranger if people try to lynch you later just copy and paste this post until they stop.

Tempting, but they'd just lynch me for the arrogance. :P

okay i def think Ranger's town but where are you getting that she's bad at scum? (not engagey and flakey and lurky are all p bad) Ranger is that really how you are as scum?

I'm not sure I display the behavior RC describes as scum, but I'm objectively a bad scum player. I've never won a scum game on my own merits; it's always been my scumbuddy who has given me the win.

[Ranger]

it was just that i was having a hard time seeing a player who appears to be moderately active and such be so completely different as scum.

Well if you want to check it out for yourself, I've got ten completed scum games on my wiki. (Speaking of which, update time. I've also got another field I want to add to my statistics and games: time played.)

[Ranger]

Where the hell is Rhaegar?

Potentially

site-flaking.

If not, could actually be scum.

Rhaegar should have given content by now to make himself obvtown.

I haven't seen it.

[Ranger]

dead*

Eh, deaf works just as adequately to describe it.

[Ranger]

I wouldn't be opposed to lynching Witch_Hunter/Rhaegar without waiting for a replacement, tbh. I don't think that slot can be redeemed at this point.

Hear that?

That's the sound of a Postie townread crying that it is now gone forever.

Anarchy Shard is right.

We wait.

[Ranger]

Indeed.

Titus is still scum, though.

[Ranger]

I'd be down to just flash-lynch Titus for what it's worth.

[Ranger]

I agree with 3dice there.

[Ranger]

^Which is why the wagon there is suspect.

Speaking of which,
VOTE: Titus.

[Ranger]

I realize Titus isn't on the wagon.

But.

She supports the wagon. While being off it.

Which is even worse.

[Ranger]

This is what happens when literally the whole game stalls because of replacements.

[Ranger]

He really shouldn't be, but yes, he is.

[Ranger]

I was under the impression she was really good as scum, though? Wasn't she Nomed?

For best scumhunter and rising star, yes: town games. Not scum games. I've yet to win a scum game on my own merits. All my wins have either been through sheer luck or thanks to my scumbuddy.

If Titus is confscum why would you not be voting/pushing her at this point in time?

Pretty sure there was a wagon on 3dice but there wasn't one on Titus.

I want to see Rhaegar slot flipped, then if it's a scum flip we powerlynch Titus.

OR, how about regardless of Rhaegar's alignment, Titus is scum so we lynch her first, give Thor time to catch up, and reassess after that?

[Ranger]

Ok yeah Titus has to die at some point.

How about today?

[Ranger]

Okay, excitement, why am I in the hot seat?

Because people are idiots and/or scum.

Thor, if you want to convince me you're town, the best way to do that is to read the game and give me your reads. Trying to defend your predecessor's actions isn't going to get you very far.

Pretty sure this is scum btw.

[Ranger]

Plus it has Ranger's backing so automatically a good wagon.

Now would

probably

be a bad time to tell you my 3dice scumread has weakened. :/

[Ranger]

her or Ranger.

I'd vote Postie in a heartbeat.

That change anything?

[Ranger]

Pretty much all I get from 64 is that dave's pretty town and Titus/Postie scummed the thread up.

[Ranger]

{Aeronaut, TheShowMustGoOn, Anarchy Shard, davesaz, SirCakez}
{Thor, Spiffeh}
{3dicerolling}
{Postie, Titus}

[Ranger]

Why is it that the more Postie posts about a wagon, the more uncomfortable I become with lynching that person? :S

[Ranger]

You have a Vig shot; Postie or Titus, who eats lead?

Vig isn't exactly

my

kind of role, but were it to be...Titus.
In a heartbeat.

[Ranger]

Why would you shoot them in the face?

Well for a start, her doctor claim is absolute BS.
That doesn't even begin to go into how every facet of her play is her scum meta. The misreps, the hyper-focus, it's all there.

[Ranger]

I have good reason to believe Titus is absolutely full of it.

[Ranger]

Titus is not scum because she tried a reaction test.

Uh-huh.

Because clearly, reaction testing always comes from town.

It's not unreasonable to see the possibility of a second doc, despite what the numbers say. Plus, you could be lying, so that would bring the odds up.

Basically, this. Theoretically, there could be up to three doctors in the game.

I find it incredibly unlikely we have more than one, and I also find it incredibly unlikely Titus is one.

[Ranger]

So yeah, I'm rolling with the 90+ chance that there is no second doctor. Sure it's possible. Is it likely? Nope.

(This, btw, is bait for a real doctor to try claiming so she can nightkill them.)

[Ranger]

Also, Spiffeh was town because Expedience's catch-up posting is town.

[Ranger]

RC.

Titus is scum.

[Ranger]

Ehh, also crumbs

UNVOTE: Titus

This is not a valid reason to unvote Titus.

Trust me.

She's scum.

I can't read Titus and I don't really get any read, I think it's hard to see.

You'd have to be blind not to see it.

[Ranger]

Are you claiming cop or something, you seem awfully sure?

This is not something I should answer.

[Ranger]

I'm not lynching Thor, vote Titus

^

[Ranger]

Ranger, can you please vote someone who isn't Titus?

Theoretically? Yes. I think Postie's scum so it wouldn't be the end of the world if she was lynched instead. It wouldn't be something I'd be happy about, though. Because...
Practically? No. Titus is scum, and everyone voting there has continued to point out reason after reason for it. Thor being the most recent with his posting on this page.

[Ranger]

Hi all, sorry I need to do this, but: I'm going to a special even early tomorrow.

I spent today running errands preparing for that event tomorrow. I didn't declare V/LA because I did not anticipate it taking all day.

...It did.

So, my apologies, but I need to do a one-time prod-dodge for today only. I'll be back tomorrow night.

I WILL say that TheShowMustGoOn is now 100% town and Titus continues to be scum though.

VOTE: Titus.

[Ranger]

My lynchpool is still Thor/3dice.

My lynchpool is still Titus/Postie.

Titus (3) - davesaz, Ranger, Thor665
davesaz (6) - 3dicerolling, The Show Must Go On, Titus, Postie, SirCakez, Anarchy Shard

Seriously, look at that davesaz wagon. At this point, the only players on there I wouldn't lynch are TheShowMustGoOn (who is town) and SirCakez (who is pretty obviously town).

Calling it right now Titus strongarmed her buddies into no killing so she could try to use it to save herself.

Not impossible, but more likely is that TheShowMustGoOn is town.

[Ranger]

I move for a quicklynch.

So do I!

On one of {Titus, Postie, Anarchy Shard}.

There goes the remnants of my Anarchy townread

SO much this.

[Ranger]

You might as well say whatever your beef with me is at this point.

My "beef" is that I think you're scum and the idea of massclaiming is stupid.

[Ranger]

We lynched obvtown who people claimed was scum, ignoring actual scum Titus and Postie.

Also, we have Thor.

[Ranger]

I'm tracker.

Rain check on this claim. It either makes Expedience much more town or much more likely to be scum, don't know which, but I need to fact check everything.

I'll say that, if true, it just massively proves my point on Titus being scum.

[Ranger]

I

still

don't get why we're massclaiming anyway.

I still think it's being pushed mainly by scum. (Namely, Titus and Postie.)

[Ranger]

Ranger, you're up next.

That was not agreed upon.

So, no. I'm not.

[Ranger]

Still not my turn to claim.

Still not claiming.

[Ranger]

Ranger it is your turn. Aero's IRL lurking so he gets skipped.

That's not how it works.

So, again.

No.

[Ranger]

Well tough.

It may not have been hard to guess, but I still don't like the explicit roleclaim. Don't exactly have much of a choice, now, do I?

Doctor. I protected Heartless N1, so that was the scum JOAT, be it roleblocking, redirecting, or strongman.
I protected TheShowMustGoOn last night.

And, no, not 3dice next.

Postie.

[Ranger]

How plausible is two doctors?

Not only that, but two doctors, a tracker, a jailkeeper, and whatever RC's claiming.

PPPI +RC (either one or two extra letters) is what we'd be looking at, leaving us with a setup that's 5 or 6 letters, leaving 1 or two Ts. (That would be 1x Busdriver, JOAT, and depending, maybe-SK.)

That many letters in a game is not impossible.

It is, however, rather improbable.

[Ranger]

How could RC be two extra letters?

It's possible, but let's not discuss this further until

after

he claims, mkay?

[Ranger]

I just don't get how all 3 of you know I'm a bullet magnet and yet we had 3 protectives and none was on me N1.

You weren't my strongest townread D1. That was Heartless. And, hey. I made the right call in protecting Heartless! It's just that SOMEONE is claiming direct responsibility for making that fail.

I'd love to see the excuses from Postie and Titus though!

VOTE: Anarchy Shard

I'll sheep this though.

VOTE: Anarchy Shard.

[Ranger]

My VT lynch priority is Anarchy > 3Dice > Thor665 > Frozen Angel > Sircakez.

Frozen Angel = Aeronaut. Aeronaut was pretty town, and Frozen Angel has continued to town it up since then. So, switch her with SirCakez, and you get mine.

I'm still

incredibly

skeptical of one or two PR claims, but a night or two will sort that out one way or another. Ergo, lynch Anarchy Shard.

[Ranger]

Still say the correct lynch here is Anarchy Shard.

[Ranger]

I want to see how others will respond to me. specially ranger.

Aeronaut was one of my strongest townreads and you have done absolutely nothing to diminish that read. Quite the opposite, in fact; I've liked the general vibe from what you've said so, yes, the push on you feels scum-driven.

[Ranger]

VOTE: Frozen Angel

^Scum voting.

[Ranger]

Admitting it's scummy doesn't make it not scummy.

^

[Ranger]

If two tpr claimers are liars who are they?
if none tpr claimers are liars what happened?

If two liars, Titus and Postie, no doubt.
If none, then I'd lynch...literally every VT claim before you.
Anarchy Shard, 3dicerolling, Thor, SirCakez, in that order, before you.

Anarchy Shard's probably scum regardless of whether Titus and Postie are scum though, so we lynch them today, and let the night actions sort our PR claims out.

[Ranger]

how do you think we should put night actions sort everyone?

RC made a list; I'm thinking...sheep it.

[Ranger]

VOTE: 3dicerolling.
I protected TheShowMustGoOn/RC last night for what it's worth.

[Ranger]

UNVOTE: 3dicerolling.

I'm not voting because its very likely MyLo.

Did not realize this, but is probably right. :/

[Ranger]

RC/Titus/Postie?

Not possible.
At this point, we know that the setup must have an even number of Ts: 6, 4, 2, or 0.
We have claimed: Tracker (confirmed), Doctor, JK, Doctor, RC.
Ergo, IPPPRTT. (Two Ts.)
So 0 Ts is impossible.
We know that there are three scum.
If two claimed PRs, we'd have 4 Ts. The only combination where Postie is scum is if Titus is also scum, and in that scenario, RC must be town.
The only combination where RC is scum is if Titus is also scum, and in that scenario, Postie must be town.
IF we lynch a PR claim, it would be Titus.

Yet also possible is that 3/4 of our claimed VTs are scum.

Meaning the possible scumteam combos are: {Titus, Postie, random VT claim}, {Titus, RC, random VT claim}, or {VT claim x3}.
In all scenarios, we have one VT minimum who is scum.

If we can find that player, then we get another night of coordinating night actions to further sort the PRs.

I'm also no longer convinced 3dicerolling is the scum, mainly because I'm not liking your posting right now and Thor's also raises eyebrows.

[Ranger]

^This also doesn't take into consideration the no death N2.
We know that I targeted RC.
We know Titus claimed to have targeted me.
We also know that Postie claimed to have targeted RC N2.
This means that, 100%, either RC or me was targeted.
If I was targeted, then Titus is town, and by proxy, so is Postie. By proxy, so too is RC because RC cannot be scum unless scum with Postie.
If RC was targeted, then RC is town. Postie is not as certain, and so too is Titus uncertain.
The latter's more likely to me, unfortunately, but the possibility of the former means I don't think we should be lynching a PR.
Regardless, RC's confirmed town from this.

[Ranger]

Ranger reads list

You're not gonna like it.
{RC}
{Frozen Angel}
{Titus, Postie | 3dicerolling, Thor, SirCakez}
As in, you can only be scum with Postie and one of the VTs, Postie can only be scum with you and one of the VTs, I'm not sure if you're town or scum, and I'm not getting any read on any of the VTs, except a townread on Frozen Angel. RC's not just up there for his status as conftown; I also maintain his play is town.

Were I to guess right now, I'd say it's more likely you and Postie are town, with the three-VT scum list shown above, but I don't hold absolute confidence in it.

[Ranger]

If we were in a 3 VT scum scenario, what would your reads be Ranger?

3dicerolling was an old scumread but the slot hasn't been in the game;
Thor's playing like scum;
SirCakez is kind-of playing like scum.

So, all three of them, in contrast to Frozen Angel whose play is, well, in comparison...angelic. She's asking a lot of good questions, thinking things through, analyzing every angle and posting good thoughts.

[Ranger]

^Also, FA = Aeronaut, and I also loved his content when he was in the game.

Whereas Thor = Rhaegar who didn't obvtown (in contrast to Diffusion of Power where he did), and Rhaegar = Witch Hunter, who was fairly nullish.

[Ranger]

Read the RC half of the current RC-Thor debate.
He's in the right.

Thor's push here is slimy and opportunistic, and when called out on it, he has been highly defensive and tried to distance from his stances by claiming objectivity...a fight he is in the loss about more than the right.

3dicerolling has been a game-long scumread.

[Ranger]

@Ranger, What was the likelihood of you voting me today at the start (not caring for right now)?

A little higher than right now, but still abysmally low.
We're talking like 10% tops, here.

Far more accurate would be like 5% at most.

You aren't, and weren't, my focus today.

[Ranger]

I'm convinced.

VOTE: Thor.
It's the 3-scum-VTs scenario.

[Ranger]

what convinced you ?

Mostly? The posting of the other VTs.

Pps ranger, how sure are you of the three vt scenario?

Pretty sure. I'd be even more confident if there was no site down time after I voted Thor, since there hasn't been a hammer there. But the site down time means I'm not able to say that with the same level of certainty. Still am confident Thor's scum regardless, though. If it's Titus-Postie, he's the third scum; if it's three-VTs, he's still scum.

[Ranger]

What convinced you? FA noted that RC had claimed a vanilla result on Thor, making him a mechanical semi-clear (i.e. he could ONLY be a goon if he's mafia, presuming that RC/Ranger isn't mafia).

One, there is a busdriver if all PRs are town. Two, scumteam does in fact have a goon which is very likely Thor. This is regardless of whether we have all-town PRs or two-lying PRs.

[Ranger]

You mean the two scum and one town? :neutral:

Not a possible combination.
In the VT claims, there's either one scum or three scum.
I am convinced Frozen Angel is town.

Ergo, the other VTs are either all scum (my current belief), or two town with one scum. And regardless of whether we're in the two-PR or three-VT scumteam scenario, you make the most sense as scum. Titus is pushing away from lynching you. Postie also is not supporting your lynch. If Titus/Postie are scum, you are also scum. If they are both town, then you are still scum, and this is what I believe off of the posting of both mhsmith('s slot) and SirCakez.

[Ranger]

(using up a strongman on heartless or a role block on ranger night one is IMO odd by a mafia team of any stripe, even a Titus-X-X team that really doesn't want to shoot ranger for obvious reasons)

You forget that Postie claimed a block on me.
The only way scum need to have used a strongman or a roleblock is if Postie is scum.

Though, you also are unfamiliar with Heartless, I take it? They're the kind of player who scum might have strongmanned anyway.

Ranger's absence bothers me.

You KNOW my response, here.

Once or twice a day, posts consistently, never more, never less.

So why are you bringing this up as if it's a point?

[Ranger]

It is possible.

Nope! Not unless we've had an invisible SK the entire game.

The thing about open setups is that they are

open

, and therefore easily known.

In this game, we either have all PRs telling the truth (in which case, three VT claims are scum), or two PR claims lying (in which case, one VT claim is scum). One PR claim lying and two VTs lying is impossible, because by the setup, that would necessitate a serial killer that we very clearly do not have.

Wait, so you're saying you think there's a chance for Titus/Postie/Thor after Day 3?
Really?

There is the possibility, yes.

It is not the most probable scenario.

why are you trying to lynch the Goon in the VTs as opposed to the two "known" other scum to you in the VTs?

Because you already had a vote on you, and you're scum regardless of whether it's 3-VTs or 1. SirCakez and mhsmith are both probably scum, but they don't have a wagon on them and there's a chance Titus/Postie are scum with you wanting to direct a lynch onto them, ergo, lynch Thor.

Yeah, odd how much Ranger screamed that...while not voting Titus.

My vote has been on Titus the majority of the game.

I only stopped voting her yesterday when it became possible she could be town.

[Ranger]

Because from what I can tell, there is no way in the rule set for there to be a mafia doctor result (other than maybe due to a bus driver action).

Busdriver is the implication. It's on the wiki page that, explicitly, a busdriven target is not informed they are busdriven, ergo, RC wouldn't know he was busdriven...but if he got a doctor result on Thor, that'd mean scum busdrove Thor with a doctor claim, in an attempt to frame said doctor as Thor's role. Ergo, Thor scum.

So, RC's logic holds.

[Ranger]

No? That's literally what I just said, isn't it?

[Ranger]

Titus, Postie:

As a birthday gift to RC, mind switching to Thor?

[Ranger]

Nah, all three of us are here. mhsmith's point is valid. We could have hammered SirCakez, but we haven't, ergo, not a possible scumteam.

[Ranger]

I find it likelier that SC is mafia than Thor (though still reading), I find it much likelier that SC is mafia PR than Thor, and I find it likelier that Titus/Postie is town/town than RC/Ranger is town/town.

I suppose this

is

valid, though.

If Thor is scum, he is probably vanilla anyway.

So,
VOTE: SirCakez.

[Ranger]

lol

Yes, I know, I switched off.
Scum lynch is a scum lynch. Doesn't matter on who.

[Ranger]

I'm thinking about one ...

Well, lynching scum would be one.
Certainly would boost his ego.

[Ranger]

btw, happy birthday RC

I don't think I've actually said these words officially, either, so...yeah.

Happy birthday, RC.

[Ranger]

At this stage, I'm not actually sure which of {mhsmith, Frozen Angel} is town, but I'm like 95% certain we're in the 3-VT scenario.

I do think that it'd be appropriate for, if we're gonna lynch on any day, it to be during RC's birthday. If it's on scum, it's a birthday present; if it's on town, well, I suppose it's an ironic birthday present but it still counts as a present. :P

[Ranger]

FA pls :(

Honestly, I'm having a crisis of confidence and am worried she may be scum with SC.

[Ranger]

I believe the plan here is protecting Postie, dunno who RC/Postie target, but...we should be good no matter what if we get a scum lynch now.

[Ranger]

this is like a semi slip
Thor is not online. how you scratched him ?

It's not a slip.

In that scumteam scenario, three town are voting for SC, and therefore it takes only two scum being online to hammer.

[Ranger]

what about recent events made you doubt that?

Well, mhsmith's caution seems reasonable, but yours just seems uncharacteristic. Frankly, if you were town, I'd expect you to have voted by now.

[Ranger]

I'm going to make this easy on you, FA.

We win now if you vote, guaranteed.

[Ranger]

Glad it's over, though. <3

[Ranger]

So was it FA/RC/Ranger after all?

Well, we'll have to wait for the mod to see on that!

[Ranger]

Well, I guess you could be just trolling me.

:]

[Ranger]

<3 everyone.

Sorry for being scum.

It was RC's idea for us to claim PRs, and I decided early-on I was gonna claim doc no matter what.

[Ranger]

For what it's worth, mhsmith, I was

very

impressed with your scumhunting this game.

Keep it up; you've got potential.

Thor was also pretty accurate, too.

[Ranger]

Yeah, I never would've guessed Ranger being scum even if scum didn't claim PR.

<3

This is definitely my second-best scumgame ever, but that's largely because we got the RC-Ranger-Aero/FA dreamteam going on.

I literally could not have asked for a better scumteam than that.

[Ranger]

Ranger, I'd say you looked VERY town in this game. Sold that doc claim hard from moment one. As someone whose wolf game is just bad (I can make analysis but I suck at faking it), I was really impressed.

Thank you. <3

Means a lot, considering I normally am not nearly this good as scum.

I do think this was a very good team effort though; the game would not have been the same without RC and Aero (and then, later, FA) as my teammates. I probably wouldn't have even thought to claim doctor for instance.

[Ranger]

Btw, was there an actual case for me as being Mafia, or was that just bs thrown out that you guys didn't want to get called on?

It was BS.
Same for SirCakez; he was really obviously town.
Thor too, for that matter. It's also how Anarchy Shard got lynched. (I don't think there was a legitimate case there.)

Frankly the least-BSed reads for me were the Titus/Postie ones since I felt there was actual evidence I could push there. But in lylo, we needed their votes.

[Ranger]

@ranger: what made sc obv town?

Experience mislynching him before, you could say.

I made almost the exact same case you did against him in my first game with him when he was town. (RC was also there, as actual scum.)

I've played with him a lot since then, seen him as both town and scum a lot, so I got a good idea of what's alignment-indicative for him and what's not. A lot of his insight was keen, even if not correct, and that's something he doesn't show when scum.

Day 4 was technically MYLO. Town could have safely no-lynched and taken a 4:3 majority into day 5

It was still technically correct play to lynch though, because while an extra days of PRs would in fact be beneficial to the town...if the town had lynched correctly, there was the theoretical chance of them stopping another kill, giving them an extra lynch, something they would

not

have had if they had no-lynched.

[Ranger]

Wait Ranger why did you say you were terrified of me? I'm a terrible scumhunter as shown by this game O.o

I hold a different opinion of you, after seeing your towngame in action multiple times.

[Ranger]

btw Ranger, one thing which I would say was probably a mistake in hindsight is that you claimed a doc heal on Heartless N1.

There was no other protection that made sense with my reads as they were at the end of D1. I also think that, given Postie blocked me N1, it worked out really, really well. I claimed something which Postie verified. I think the only thing that was a mistake in my claim was that I didn't make a stronger note about why Heartless died immediately after they did. The target was always going to be Heartless, and we were always going to kill them, so immediately after they died, it would have helped my claim immensely if I had said something like, "checking with the mod on something real quick".

I ultimately decided that a town-Ranger would be smart enough to

not

give away her role in this manner, and would have simply done the PM to the mod privately, gotten a response of "yes, your action was received", and come to the conclusion of block-or-strongman, and not make any note of it in-thread because there would be no advantage yet a distinct disadvantage. Since the subject of a strongman/roleblock didn't come up until massclaim, a town-Ranger would not have reason to reveal she "knew" one was in play.

There's truly nothing quite like "well this can't be the mafia team, because they're all here and haven't quick-hammered yet"
...
mafia team then quick-hammers

Ironically, I had (briefly) logged off, intent on doing some offline browsing and then turning in for the night...until I read your comment, realized FA

was

online, knew RC was also online, so I promptly logged back in and kept posting for the next 15 minutes.

So, sorry that you reminded me we could win right then and there. <3

To your credit, there wasn't much you could have done. Even if you thought we WERE setting up a quickhammer, even if you were 100% convinced all three of us were scumclaiming, your vote would have placed RC at L-3, and no other members of the town were online, meaning it was gonna happen no matter what.

[Ranger]

You didn't play that badly, man. You were just a deadline lynch that was convenient for scum to make. <3