Open 633: Near Vanilla-GAME OVER

[RadiantCowbells]

You're not voting alone though. You're voting SS as you promised.

I have mod permission to post on my main from now on so that's what I'm doing.

[RadiantCowbells]

And for the record, do I need to make a list of quotations involving me where people say that I'm scum because I'm planning things days out in advance?

Because that's what I do. I plan things. I would never have put myself in the situation I'm in as scum.

I would never have lurked as scum either. The alt was intended to be secret; why not establish myself as town leader, strongarm lynches, try to push things that don't end up coming to fruition, IE my trademark scumplay that works fantastically well and I wouldn't even be at risk of being meta'd out for it which has caused me to somewhat avoid it in general?

Look at my Viva La Gloria games. That's what I do as secret alt because that's what I see as optimal scum play for someone who is not going to meta me.

Does that look anything like what I've done this game?

[RadiantCowbells]

does that change his alignment or is he still scum?

Still town, sorry biggest fan.

[RadiantCowbells]

it's fantastic self meta.

especially considering I wasn't expecting to be able to rely on self meta because it was a secret fucking alt and I wanted to stay on the down low.

so to push on me right now you need to establish one of two things.

1) that I wouldn't have realized how shitty it would look for my slot with a CoM townflip
or
2) that I intentionally played like shit to get scumread so that I could bring in my main and point out that's something that I'd never do.

And if you think 2 I can understand you because that's a sort of thought process that I WOULD have- but that's not what happened. Sorry yo.
I don't make short term plays and I know better than to try to set up people to fall for lynches.
I were scum, I'd have stayed on SS, regardless of their alignment, then stayed on him today while bemoaning Imperium's push on CoM.

Not that I'm not doing the latter because I'm somewhat salty about it but whatevs.

[RadiantCowbells]

oh and considering yet another game just ended where I had 2/3 of the scum pinned in the first couple pages, you should probably listen when I say SS is scum.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=65873

[RadiantCowbells]

1) WIFOM city bois
2) Alright

See the difference between a CoM lynch and this is that I want to lynch you more and more rather than less.

but you're not a good scumhunter.
and now that my identity is established you know exactly what set of games I'm referring to when I say that I'm not impressed with your play!

Don't think you can say the same about mine.

[RadiantCowbells]

And I hate to make this an ego battle but the fact is flat out that for me as scum switching over to CoM in the way I did is objectively bad and I wouldn't have done it.

Look for a scum game where I did something that flagrantly scummy and plain bad. I'll wait

[RadiantCowbells]

I've made my points, I think.

However, I'd be willing to say that this scum play here is flagrantly scummy and plain bad.

Which confirms me as town. Questions?

[RadiantCowbells]

You saying that my play if I'm scum would be flagrantly scummy and plain bad confirms me as scummy because no one would ever describe my actual scum play in that manner.

Questions?

[RadiantCowbells]

Uhm.
You literally just finished calling my play fragrantly bad and scummy.
Don't start emulating the guy who called you out in 1779, MMK?

[RadiantCowbells]

Can I make a bingo sheet of shit people say when they're trying to call me scum when I'm town?
#1 on the list would be

Town RC is like X and not Y

.
You have 0 understanding of town vs scum RC.

[RadiantCowbells]

I wouldn't look down on you if you weren't on top of a molehill trying to look down at people on mountains.

[RadiantCowbells]

RC is still scum.

this is scum I reiterate.

[RadiantCowbells]

wtf RC, it's like Severa was a character you were playing, your posting style has completely changed. Is your play style really that recognizable that you had to do that?

yes, sorta.

[RadiantCowbells]

Think that Lowell is scum by his approach to my wagon but can't say for sure.

Hey Lowell, how the fuck do you end up with a 'huge townread' on snarky slot?

[RadiantCowbells]

such waffling.

and trying to be cute about it doesn't help your case.

[RadiantCowbells]

I will stop calling you LLD if you vote SS with me.

[RadiantCowbells]

This is a pure burden-of-proficiency argument where he is setting up to discredit Imperium and shoving the responsibility for the mislynch squarely on them. This despite the fact that the majority of the town wanted Church dead and we didn't have the numbers to switch regardless of Imperium's push there. Another issue I have is the vagueness of his threat. "I'll start to have a problem" leaves him open to either discredit them or push for a mislynch without committing to a position.

This is the reason I started to have suspicion of him overnight; the vague threat to us if CoM flipped town looked like he was preempting pushing a lynch on us after CoM flipped town. I'm not really sure what I feel about him now.

And that's IF you're town.

If he's town? I thought OceanWind was one of your stronger townreads from yesterday?

Man.
Do you think I would blatantly do something like that?
If I'm scum, my plays are deeper than you've anticipated: every single scum game I've ever played my 'play' has been deeper than at least 2 mislynches will figure out.
Read my 1 scum loss: 192. Where I had my teammates bus me and they got replaced with people who did literally nothing and got lynched mostly on policy.
Do you really think I did something as blatant as setting you up to take the fall for CoM?
If you did, where do you think me ignoring you (until you ignored the thread for 2+ days) falls into it?

[RadiantCowbells]

On the subject of his scumgame, RC literally claimed cop to get a PR lynched that game, he's fucking nuts and while I've learned to avoid making assumptions when concerning his play, I really doubt he'd simply pit two town members against each other or have someone take the fall for a mislynch. From my experience, RC likes to use mind games and turn assumptions about what is likely town against you. He's manipulative of ideas and thoughts, but not actions from what I know of him.

and for the record
if I didn't want to be lynched at the time in NY192, I wouldn't have been.
Titus who was scum with em was pivotal in my lynch.
I'm town here. shush.

[RadiantCowbells]

probably you should stop being such an obv scumfuck.
i mean I have like

had it with ur shit ss.
i remembre your reaciton as town to being wagoned in 1750. this is not it.

[RadiantCowbells]

i will not bow down to this ranger from the north!

[RadiantCowbells]

You realize that the reason I was as deathtunneled as I was in 1750 was because I had a 100% confirmed scum I wanted to wagon. In this case, I do not have a 100% confirmed scum to wagon, I have you, who seems fairly scummy and who I would like to wagon. I'm not discounting the possibility that you might be town, I just think that's really unlikely.

you were deathtunneled because scum wanted you as a counterwagon and town were being shitlords who oculdn't see shos was scum after fucktons of evidence.

further: I didn't bring it up to talk about others, i brought it up to talk about you.

[RadiantCowbells]

uhm
ss was a scumfuck
com idd so mebad iae
i msiread coms bad ate and scumreadt hem
sspushed onme
i switched t o ss
tammy got me vo te vv
ss flip teown
everyontee think im scum cuz whatevs nooblord stuff
i vote scumfuck ss

anyway2drunk4dis

[RadiantCowbells]

jmo read a sheep of my read or are you legitimately reading that

[RadiantCowbells]

jmo read a sheep of my read or are you legitimately reading that

[RadiantCowbells]

I dearly hope for my sanity that you're town.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm taking 0 stances besides SS scum until SS is lynched.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'll get to this in the evening.

There's a bunch more newly added to the case.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'll get to this in the evening.

There's a bunch more newly added to the case.

no energy.

morning?

I'm legit on V/LA on top of my exhausstion with mafia ftr.

[RadiantCowbells]

You ridiculously exaggerating my 'derailment' of the Bella wagon is cancerously bad

Just stop.

[RadiantCowbells]

Oh my god

RC ignored a wagon when he was trying to push another one that was on basically confscum

who

the fuck

woulda thought it?

[RadiantCowbells]

well at least I can rub this game in KTS's face if he's town.

[RadiantCowbells]

well at least I can rub this game in KTS's face if he's town.

Or you could explain your reads and maybe try and not have that attitude of you already won :/

Don't be Brosiedon and don't be PK.

My playstyle is fine.

[RadiantCowbells]

MoI, you're seriously going to try to fight my reads?

I will lynch you if this is going to be a thing.

[RadiantCowbells]

well MoI

what you're forgetting is that

I'm RC.

[RadiantCowbells]

Ranger is too good to be Mastin though.

[RadiantCowbells]

Mastin tries to vig Innocent Childs who go on to lead town to a win despite several town quickhammers on town to 'get them out of the way so town can get stuff done.'

There's about a 0% chance that they're the same person.

[RadiantCowbells]

And yeah

Its because this game I'm being pushed to make a gigantic case which I really don't want to do.

[RadiantCowbells]

Town!RC play is about me
Scum!RC play is about manipulating other people.

[RadiantCowbells]

Snarky, how do you feel about Ranger's push on you?

[RadiantCowbells]

I read SS's frustration more as 'wait what the fuck this is RC what do I do now' than what you read it as.

[RadiantCowbells]

k.
here's my last word for everyone.
SS is getting lynched today.
Like, say there's a 10% chance he's town. He doesn't deserve to live for his play the last few days.
his and his predecessor's combined play is far more scum indicative than bad town indicative.
I have played with town!SS more than any other person in the game. I am quite confident in the read.
he is getting lynched.

if I have to make a giant effort rehashing the points I've already made I'm going to start policy lynching the people who are fighting me here.
people who ignore my reads are people I want alive as much as scum.
You're first on that list, MoI.

[RadiantCowbells]

I do get mislynched often.

rn it looks like you're not even trying

He's trying to stay as down low as he can and hope that the lynch goes somewhere else.
This isn't how apathetic town lurks.

[RadiantCowbells]

The associative?

VOTE: CoM

Yeah, Snarky and CoM are scumbuddies.

That is, you are not likely of the same alignment as CoM.

I am fine with a ChurchOfMercy lynch today.

I'm diffident about whether to read through for other scumreads as well before seeing the flip.

Complacency isn't necessarily a scumread, but this gave me bad vibes.

See, even the fact that you called out Acryon instead of me is tellling.
I can imagine this level of passive aggressiveness but I'd expect that the one you'd be calling out is the one who told you you're full of shit because I'd be the one antagonizing you here.
This is making a show, not your actual feelings.

VOTE: ChurchOfMercy

This felt pretty bad, for a lot of reasons. Actually, on re-read, ChurchofMercy's response in 338 and 339 is pretty shit, too.

Why do you talk like you think you're god's gift to scumhunting?
I'll give you a little hint: you're not.
I will not be unvoting CoM today unless something big happens.

This, directed at Kts, feels like it's meant to be de-railing to one of the most thorough cases (against Bella) that I've seen Kts make.

Ha!?
I am not scum!

Church's reactions were incredibly off and their AtE rang insincere. I'm lynching them.

I will read Bella for you though!

While I'm in agreement that Church's reactions were fairly scummy, I'm curious as to your thought on Bella, since you've ignored that. How do you read them at the moment?

I'm incredibly skeptical of SnarkySnowman putting me as sole confirmed scum with current levels of content from my slot.

Feels like an attempt to generate a counterwagon. CoM flips scum that's my first priority.

The motivation behind all your posts feels forced in context. And this, saying you're skeptical of me putting you as my only scumread (as opposed to scumlean), feels like you're upset that I caught you for the wrong reason.

Keep in mind, I'm not exactly townreading CoM.

VOTE: SnarkySnowman

I still believe that CoM is scum on principle but I'm near positive that this is scum.
He has no justification for having me as sole scumread. If he wants to say 'Severa needs to post more, useless slot, lurksack', etc.? Say that forever.
But for me to be his #1 scumread is fucking bunk.

I don't like his stance on the CoM wagon either. I feel like he's either scum with them or he's scum trying to position for a push on me tomorrow after their flip.
Either way, I'm prioritizing this over CoM.

Is this the "something big" you were referring to? Again, feels OMGUS-y more than convinced.

I have justification - you've posted very little, you've derailed what I think was a possible route of discussion, which I think would have been productive, and you've avoided giving opinion on anyone other than CoM and now myself, as far as alignment goes. Plus, I see the associative between you and CoM forming, and I think that I could get some information out of your lynch, which I think is more likely to be scum than CoM's.

like these two posts alone justify a policy lynch.
and they're scummy as fuck.

[RadiantCowbells]

like this hyping my not reading Bella to the point of it being the fate of the fucking universe is just awful.

I was consistently low effort while I was trying to stay quiet. I didn't answer much of anything.

this bella shit is just trying to falsely tie people together.

also, if it's such a fucking big deal why isn't he voting Bella?

[RadiantCowbells]

It's incredibly obvious that SS saw Severa as an easy mislynch.
He pushed me gently with the intent of CoM going through so that I would be used as the lynch tomorrow.

I snapped back and he hard pushed on me while explicitly saying that CoM and I are opposite alignments: justifying a scumread progression to the other regardless of who gets lynched.

Now that there's no momentum on me his read's changed. Fancy how that shit happens

Is it /possible/ he's just a terrible, terrible town player? Maybe. but not likely.

[RadiantCowbells]

That's the end of my freebie.

If I have to do more people are getting lynched for it.

[RadiantCowbells]

No, town are being morons.

[RadiantCowbells]

Your point is that you don’t buy that Snarky can be convinced to change is read on Bella based on that post. That doesn’t sell me in the least. I feel like you are trying to split hairs by saying “Kill never gave reasons” when the reasons are the associative tells themselves – Acryon being auto-Town with a Bella scum flip.

Okay, how does Snarky change his read on Bella from his "townlean" group to his "scumlean" group based on kill saying "Acryon is auto-town if Bella is mafia?" It's not that he put faith in the post or that he was more willing to lynch Bellaphant because of that post. He actually changed his read due to it.

It looks to me like he is mafia faking reads on players including a townlean on Bellaphant. When he saw killthestory make that big heading saying that we're lynching Bella, he skimmed through it, assumed it was a "case," and changed his read so he could hop on the wagon if it took off whether it was a bus or a mislynch.

If he was going to do that then a mislynch is a mislynch why didn't he just hop on CoM then?

Because he was setting up future fucking mislynches.
He perpetually left the idea of a CoM switch over, kept pushing us as opposite alignment, meaning any one
Are you saying you've never seen someone try to groom a mislynch before?

Like fuck SS is obvscum. I don't understand why I have to make so much effort?

You're letting him fucking hide under the radar because shitters like MoI who think they have a fucking clue when they don't are making a big deal about shit that doesn't matter rn.

How is he not transparently trying to wait under the radar till the lynch moves over right now. how?

[RadiantCowbells]

HOW DO YOU NOT SEE THIS.

[RadiantCowbells]

this should not be this hard.

[RadiantCowbells]

if it makes you feel better to act like whatever do your thing. I won't be around much longer, I don't give a shit anymore.
I've called scum. I'm 100% sure on my ranger read-ish but I'm not sharing it while SS is alive.
I play to win. you all can play for whatever reasons you want.

[RadiantCowbells]

like seriously I don't get you all.
I play scum I've been lynched *once* as scum in two years- and everyone's so quick to townread me.
I play town I call scum at like a fucking prodigious rate like I bet if I compiled a stat list of my performance this year I would be top 3 on site and no lower. Would not be surprised to be #1 accuracy.
and yet even after you were fucking wrong on CoM you discredit me in other game lobbies and are mostly focused on other pushes.

like fuck it, you're absolved from your -duty- to vote with me. do your thing.
I'm not saying anything about my ranger read.
you want to ignore me, do your thing. I learned the hard way how to get your reads lynched and it's not worth it to me anymore.
but I'm right. as I was in game x and game y and game z and you should all fucking know it by now.

[RadiantCowbells]

like whatever.
do your thing.

you know what I learned about mafia that makes me want to quit?

you win by being a fucking asshole.
you win by not caring about other people's feelings or investments and by enforcing your will on others.
that's how you win.
that's how I should have won this game, by being all fuck you tammy and nacho your reads are shit and bullying the crowd into following SS.
and I already dislike MoI so I have no issues doing that with him but when it's people you want to stay friendly with you're in a catch-22.

and I've tried being nice. I've tried it several times through my career.
every time I have I've returned to the same conclusion that it's fucking me over and it's not helping me win.
because flat out my reads are better than whichever person I'm trying to be nice to, and the great thing about being me is that I do sometimes win games that are called 'for the wrong reasons'
BECAUSE PEOPLE DONT UFCKING UNDERSTAND HOW I SCUMHUNT.
Like fucks sake my case can be entirely wrong because my cases aren't what I scumhunt on. My cases are no sharable, they're based on putting myself into other peoples shoes and thinking 'What do I do here as 'x' alignment'

You know who plays SS's game? scum. scum who wants to set me up as a future mislynch, scum who freaked out when I retaliated and pushed on him hard, scum who is hiding now.
and you're getting mad at me for being hostile because you're not following your own fucking commitment to vote someone? well think how I fucking felt when I followed you and got screwed over for it
and now you're going off on ranger.

like news flash idgaf if ranger is scum.

ranger is a popular scumread.

i don't scumhunt popular scumreads unless I think they're probably town and feel the need to defend them.

because that's how you /win/
discredit my playstyle all you like: it gets results. results that tammy/nacho/moi's wall of texting has done fuck all for.
I'm voting SS for the win. follow me or don't.

drunk rc signing out.

[RadiantCowbells]

It's from Camn's game where Nacho argued that I 'caught them for the wrong reasons'
like fuck everyone says I caught them for the wrong reasons. you think you're actually going to tell yourself I caught you for the right ones?
If you're not Nacho, you're not the person I'm irritated with.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm bitter and that's why I'm done with mafia.
you know one of the huge things everyone said when I was new?
'Two parts to mafia: finding scum and convincing everyone to follow you'

I got way too good at the second part and that makes me a pariah.
mafia is not a game you want to be good at.

[RadiantCowbells]

I can't be a decent human being while this game makes me want to stab myself.

[RadiantCowbells]

I think Virtue is scum with SS based on his catchup.

That leaves 1 more?

[RadiantCowbells]

I think there's exactly 1.

[RadiantCowbells]

In fact yes, you haven't played in any completed games where I was scum. So why does this look like my scumgame to you, as opposed to my towngame?

why are you arguing with Ranger instead of me?

[RadiantCowbells]

Have an uncompleted one though!

At least until this finishes.

[RadiantCowbells]

because of reasons things and stuff.

you know you're scum. stahp.

[RadiantCowbells]

For the most part, they both tend to scumread me - see my wiki, which is mostly up to date on completed games.

this is 100% a lie. I defended the fuck out of you in miller's hollow and was one of the only people who did.

[RadiantCowbells]

thank annie.

[RadiantCowbells]

If you're a vanilla townie with your play I'm happy to see you gone.

[RadiantCowbells]

^ lynch this scum

^ that's why.

[RadiantCowbells]

I think Oceanwind may be scum regardless of this flip.

I still think SS flips scum for the record.

[RadiantCowbells]

ftr I think MoI is very town.

no one cares.
if you're town all your reads will be ignored.

bye.

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't think that with the amount of effort you've put in this game any of your reads are worthwhile.
I came around to townreading you in 1750, HARD. I was the reason you didn't get lynched.
You can't give me the slightest bit of effort to shake my scumread on you? you want to claim I'm scum for it?

shoo. If you're not scum, idk what to say.

[RadiantCowbells]

I ended up reading your first Newbie game when in a later game the first thing GM said in scumchat was that her partner should bus her.

[RadiantCowbells]

yes you have. flip pls.

[RadiantCowbells]

Congrats town!

[RadiantCowbells]

I had ollie as town when I died sadly.

FTR I was beyond 100% certain that Ranger was scum and reasonably sure that Titus was scum but I was too stuck on SS to switch.

I sorta dropped the ball here.

[RadiantCowbells]

MoI, I think you need to rethink the towncred you give to people for lynching scum.

Bussing seems to fool you pretty systematically.