Open 635 - JK9++ (Game Over)

[RadiantCowbells]

I love how you always do this, this thing you do where you drag your actions away from their context and make it impersonal and strategic.
Go on, AtE me. Try to make me feel bad for pushing on you. see where it gets you.

The game IS all about motivations and why people do things. I am at my best at that level, regardless of alignment.

You're trying to make this personal and about baggage to deflect rather than scumhunt.

Yes, this is personal. You wouldn't have made this play because it's inherently personal and you know that I would have taken it as such.
And no, I'm trying to lynch you. You're scum and I caught you, that's scumhunting.
You blatantly twisted my words as well.

I love how you always do this, this thing you do where you drag your actions away from their context and make it impersonal and strategic.

I said that you bring everything out of individual circumstances and make things about general situations. That's a scumtell. You've acknowledged it's a scumtell.
I called you out for it and you didn't answer it but accused me of deflecting and making this about baggage.
No amount of personal history changes the fact that you changing the topic from your push on me to the broader topic of pushes in general is scummy and you've admitted so in the past.

I wouldn't be surprised if Postie's scum as well and they planned from the get go to fake a spreadsheet result to try and lynch me.

Woah there; I've made exactly one RVS post. Where is this random suspicion of me coming from?

I don't see why Titus would have made this play if not to hard push a lynch through on me because she would have known in general how I'd react.

[RadiantCowbells]

What are your reads on the four of us independently?

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: Titus

Yeah, I was right the first time.

[RadiantCowbells]

god absolut is fucking disgusting

[RadiantCowbells]

I have never urinated from a hangover.

That's eww.

[RadiantCowbells]

correct.

[RadiantCowbells]

Postie, I haven't seen anything about your read development in the past 15 odd pages.

What's going on?

[RadiantCowbells]

I really don't like how Postie can't produce a coherent read on anyone besides me.

[RadiantCowbells]

where the fuck was this aeronaut in walking dead?

I distinctly remember someone telling me I was embarrassing myself, and then i decided to stop giving that game the time of day

Spoiler:

I mean, you were right, though, I was dead-wrong that game. Also, fuck micro games tbh.

Also, I'm actually rather liking Aeronaut now.

Love you 2 bae

Though could you explain that RVS vote, Aero?

If this has already been answered somewhere, just quote it, but I find it strange that you'd double vote someone before even exiting RVS.

Double vote? Not getting what you mean. If you're referring to why i'd vote in RVS, it's because like, pressure and stuff.

[snip]

I'm not doing this anymore. You're finding a way to twist every single thing I say into something that sounds scummy. You cannot possibly be this confbiased. A hell of a lot of the stuff you're scumreading me for I feel you should absolutely know better than to scumread me for.

When I woke up this morning I was so freaking close to doing what I did in Word Sneak and caving into the pressure you were putting on me so that my read on you did a 180 but I'm not letting that happen again. I have never been town with you in a game where you handled things like this. I don't buy that you could believe half the crap you're saying.

I'm going to go read other people now.

Which word sneak was this? I don't remember you doing that at all, tbh.

VOTE: Postie

Still think she's scum but if she's not I'm fine policy lynching her too.

My townread is dwindling on this slot for posting this; you're basically clearing yourself from responsibility for this vote, no matter which alignment Postie would flip. Gross.

Uh, yeah. Because Scum!RC tries to clear himself of responsibility for flips.
That's happened ever?

[RadiantCowbells]

I've come around that you're town but like there's a serious problem with your play this game.
You've been really abrasive from the get go, so much so that even I who am used to fighting with you took it as a scumclaim.
I'm not sure what's been going on but this seems to have been a general trend recently and you were doing this *teambuilder yay* thing and I sort of miss it.

And I'm not telling you not to push your reads but like you can't just fly in and say you've called the scumteam.
And I know you're going to counterargue with 'but that's what I do' but it isn't. Contrary to popular belief I do make a huge effort to try to keep my team together (just following my reads!)
Getting people to follow you is a skill and there's a reason people tend to follow me and not scumread me and it's nothing to do with flying in and yelling I CAUGHT THE SCUMTEAM.

Which is just a roundabout way of saying that what you're doing here won't work.
I understand your bitterness towards me personally this game considering you were trying to sort me for a doc protect but there's really no need for you
This game you've been incredibly anti-town, you killed both TTH and UTL's interests in the game, and at least one person you've been declaring confirmed scum is town.

Can you please take a step back, organize your thoughts, and come back with cases on whoever you're specifically interested in influencing reads on without personally attacking the people that are disagreeing with you? Right now it feels like you're basically trying to bully things and no one likes it and it's part of why you're being scumread.

I wasn't treating and searching for a doc protect RC. I was sorting you as a slot that made a scummy post. I had zero clue it was you when I voted you.

You know what. You think I like telling people the answer rather than letting them solve it. Nope.

I don't want to see town fight itself. So if that means they fight me, so be it.

Town wins when we recognize each other. I try to build teams but when people get high and mighty to lynch town SOMEONE has to say something. And if that makes me the villain so Anti and Spiffeh and Aero and AS stop fighting each other, I will be the villain.

Don't just come in and try to stop them fighting.
In case you hadn't noticed, besides Spiffeh, none of the above are getting anywhere close to being lynched today.
Let people do their thing, okay? All of the games that I've seen won quickly are ones with tons of TvTing because those interactions are sorty as fuck.

Like if someone's getting lynched, I'd come in and say fuck off and you should too. But this is unnecessary and it strikes everyone as posturing.
I'm sold on CMM at this point, no one's really townreading Sircakez? Just relax and let other people play the game.

[RadiantCowbells]

Can I persuade you with 6 glowing appraisals of your scumhunting

[RadiantCowbells]

You can call me town!

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: Spiffeh

[RadiantCowbells]

I mean I'm glad that you're townreading us, but just forget about our slot for a while.

We are town though.

[RadiantCowbells]

w/e I'll sheep Ranger.

VOTE: 3dice

[RadiantCowbells]

Does anyone else feel really listless in this game?

[RadiantCowbells]

Heartless died.

What you thinks?

[RadiantCowbells]

Scourge, can you get me a full reads list?

[RadiantCowbells]

Can everyone in this game make a reads list in their next post for me please?

[RadiantCowbells]

This isn't even like drunk titus.
This is like plastered titus. it's like a tier above.
I'm jealous.

[RadiantCowbells]

How do you feel about me both alignment wise and as a person at this moment in time?

[RadiantCowbells]

279/11 = 25

who said I'm not conftown this game?

[RadiantCowbells]

jk.

I should probably selfvote at this point

[RadiantCowbells]

literally too drunk to change accounts.
titus is town and we will never vote her and shame on anyone who is.
fuck off. that includes you ranger. remember when you were wrong about Lilith? you're wrong here.

3dice is a strong vote. others can be considered tomorrow.

[RadiantCowbells]

omg.

list your vote possibles?

[RadiantCowbells]

That I'm not townreading him and his whole 'IM DOING STUPID THINGS SO I MUST BE TOWN' thing feels scummy as all eff.

[RadiantCowbells]

I absolutely would not describe my scumread on him as 'Bad reads so scum' since that's the least of my concerns with his slot.

[RadiantCowbells]

No.

I said 'He is scumread by my townreads.'

Very different.

[RadiantCowbells]

I will let a NL happen before I vote Titus.

[RadiantCowbells]

I think the wagons suggest Dave scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

I suggest a massclaim today.

I claim unspecified PR with a pertinent result. I go last.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm pretty sure Postie is just scum here but I'll let her go last.

[RadiantCowbells]

Anarchy can go first.

[RadiantCowbells]

Exped claim.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm willing to follow popcorn as long as Ranger goes before me and goes before Postie.

[RadiantCowbells]

Eh honestly I see some value in the ranger thing but I don't really care.

My scumreads are coming up when they should.

Expe, popcorn to Thor?

[RadiantCowbells]

Scum is most likely Anarchy Shard + Postie + ??

[RadiantCowbells]

If there's any uncertainty whatsoever in your claim I powerlynch you.

[RadiantCowbells]

I haven't looked for Postie's role crumbs.

I am going to do that now.

[RadiantCowbells]

If I can't trust you not to have multiple role crumbs then I can't trust you to not be varying your claim.

[RadiantCowbells]

Alright. I'll take it.

[RadiantCowbells]

Expe claimed tracker.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'd prefer you popcorn to 3dice, but I'm happy with Ranger going after that-ish.

[RadiantCowbells]

Why did you vote FA over Anarchy Shard who you put down as scum?

[RadiantCowbells]

Lynching Titus would actually not be a terrible idea because it would confirm 4 people as town.

[RadiantCowbells]

And if she's scum, well, awesome lynch.

[RadiantCowbells]

I agree with you in general.

I'd still rather just lynch Anarchy because they're scum and if we get a bus driver flip it could clear a swath of people but I'd do Titus if I can't get the votes on Anarchy.

[RadiantCowbells]

FA, I understand your reasoning here but please just lynch AS.

I'm positive they're scum and the flip is super important, and if we hit JOAT or what not it guarantees me and Expe more investigates.

[RadiantCowbells]

FA if you don't vote AS I'm voting you.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm not lynching in Postie/Titus.

If it's Postie/Titus then AS is pretty fucking obviously the third.
If it's NOT Postie/Titus then AS is scum anyway.

I'm lynching no one else.

[RadiantCowbells]

Hey Titus.
If you're town then there's 3 scum in the VT claims.
If AS is town and there's 3 scum besides them: why the fuck is it so hard to get votes onto them?

And fuck. if you think FA is scum, why is she sticking her neck out pushing you when she could easily lynch Anarchy if they were town?

[RadiantCowbells]

[RadiantCowbells]

FA is easy to get votes on.
Cakez has never really been a thing.

You have a point about Thor, but he's scum if you're not so easy.

[RadiantCowbells]

Who is defending FA besides me?

[RadiantCowbells]

I want to set up PR orders.

Hold on.

[RadiantCowbells]

Unless AS flips bus driver:

Titus should be on Ranger.
Ranger should be on me.
Postie should be on a random VT.
Expedience should target a random VT.
I will be on Titus.

If AS flips bus driver:
Titus & Ranger flip 2 coins. If both heads, target Postie, else target each other.
Me and Expedience will target VTs.

[RadiantCowbells]

Unless you just wanted to claim Jailkeeper because you'd seen Ranger's softing.

[RadiantCowbells]

Unless you just wanted to claim Jailkeeper because you'd seen Ranger's softing.

I guess. I'd probably still have to know that she targeted my kill target to make me want to actually fakeclaim Jailkeeper though.

Except that if you're scum it's with Titus and with ranger softing doc you'd obviously want a JK claim to put up unless you were going to sell Titus out?

[RadiantCowbells]

like oh yeah?

you can't actually be saying that you didn't think that through.

[RadiantCowbells]

I feel like FA is town based on these interactions.

[RadiantCowbells]

presuming that any scum pairing amongst the PRs would, by definition, include Titus.

This is true, for the record.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm pulling together a very surface level VCA glance - but looking back, Anarchy and Titus both jumped on SirCakez at day start - I think that suggests that neither is likely scum with SirCakez nor with each other.

I will admit an Anarchy scum flip would make me feel that Titus is more likely town.

@FA - who do you see as the most likely scum PR pairing that is NOT a pairing with Titus in it?

There is none.

Expedience can only be scum with Titus or Ranger but Ranger is conftown. -> Expe/Titus.
Postie can only be scum with Titus or Ranger but Ranger is conftown -> Titus/Postie.

[RadiantCowbells]

...or scum killed me?

I'd think that's, y'know, the obvious conclusion.

[RadiantCowbells]

I was in a hydra with UTL but she quit mafia so I'm carrying the torch by myself now.

[RadiantCowbells]

FA why are you being so dumb this game?

[RadiantCowbells]

Titus how do you say that AS is happening easily yet we still haven't seen a hammer.
And yeah, Thor's voting AS: but he tried to get FA going and jumped on the AS wagon when it looked rather likely to go through.
So if you're town you should see no problem with them being scum together and I don't understand why you do?

And hell, FA makes so much sense as a scumpartner. Keeps saying she's going to hammer, keeps stalling and doing other stuff hoping to see another wagon happen.

Can you sub in w your main?

Yeah, let's call it done at this point?
*pokes Shadow*

[RadiantCowbells]

Oh, you're not voting AS? I thought you were.
So yeah. Titus, you say not enough objection to an AS lynch? but of all the vts literally only Sircakez isn't jumping all over the place looking for counterwagons.
Like it should be pretty fucking damning right now that both Thor and FA are avoiding the wagon and hemming and hawwing and looking at ridiculous possibilities to try to get something else going.

If you think Thor is scum, why can't you see Thor/Anarchy?

Because it's got Cakey Thor you and Ranger for it.

Town 3dice slot is empty. If there are scum in the PRs, the most likely people are for it.

If you think FA is Anarchy's partner, join me here.

FA may be scum but I can also see her as town who is just being excessively derpy.
I don't think she's wrong that you/Postie makes a lot of sense either?

Like my biggest reason to think that FA is scum is that she's not hammering AS. I'm not voting her while AS is alive.

If you're town, why are we only agreeing on 1/3?
Like, your anarchy townread is borne out of them agreeing that Cakez is scum? What if Cakez is town?
Why are you townreading 3Dice? Why do you think Scum!FA does what she's doing right now if Anarchy is town?

@RC - can you toss out the only false PRs you see, you seemed to indicate Titus had to be scum, I'd like you to dwell on that for a spell.

If there's scum in the PRs, yes. Titus has to be scum.
Almost guaranteed to be scum with Postie as well.

[RadiantCowbells]

I would townread Titus if it weren't for the setup and for Postie's ass play and the bad associatives between the slot.

[RadiantCowbells]

Strongman does not prevent you being jailkept from roleblocking you.
If Postie is town she should use her jailkeep as a roleblock.

Anarchy is probably town for that reaction.
I will check Titus tonight.

idk. I'm not on point rn.

[RadiantCowbells]

I just realized something.

If Postie is scum scum have no roleblock.
If Postie is scum scum ALSO have no strongman.

I need a second to think about this

[RadiantCowbells]

Ranger targets me.
Titus targets Postie.
I'll target Titus.
Expedience / Postie target in the VTs.

If Titus/Postie are scum we'll have to CC battle tomorrow.
If I'm dead that confirms all 4 of the PR claims as town.

3Dice is still my most confident scumread in the VT pool.

FA is the most likely person to be town in the VT pool. Not 100% on the read at this time.

[RadiantCowbells]

@RC, I'll take it you're in for a Cakey lynch tomorrow.

Why are you supposing a CC battle tomorrow?

If you're scum that's what's going to happen.

[RadiantCowbells]

Well, I'm obviously checking you so if you come up scum there's going to be a CC battle.

[RadiantCowbells]

I got a vanilla on Thor.

Still thinking.

[RadiantCowbells]

No shit I didn't target you. if you're town you would be bussed with one of the scum.

I considered targetting Postie but decided against it.

[RadiantCowbells]

No shit I didn't target you. if you're town you would be bussed with one of the scum.

I considered targetting Postie but decided against it.

You certainly left the impression that you were tracking me.

What do you get if you assume that scum were acting on that assumption too?

I did that intentionally because I wanted to try to get scum to blow their bus drive if they have one left.

I think the expedience kill points to you being town because if Expe tracked me and my track was one of the VT claims that would confscum them.

[RadiantCowbells]

No shit I didn't target you. if you're town you would be bussed with one of the scum.

I considered targetting Postie but decided against it.

You certainly left the impression that you were tracking me.

What do you get if you assume that scum were acting on that assumption too?

I did that intentionally because I wanted to try to get scum to blow their bus drive if they have one left.

I think the expedience kill points to you being town because if Expe tracked me and my track was one of the VT claims that would confscum them.

Then why were you so resistant to me telling you that Expe needed to track you?

Because a track in the VTs was more valuable?

[RadiantCowbells]

I trust my townread on Titus more than my scumread on Postie, I think.

Thor is vanilla and is therefore a bad lynch plus I could see him as town.
I could see FA as town as well.

I'd like to lynch 3dice and check Sircakez tonight. I could do Sircakez if I had to though.

[RadiantCowbells]

What about Cakey Thor 3dice or Cakey 3dice FA?

[RadiantCowbells]

I can lynch Cakez if that's what you want to do rn but I don't share your confidence in 3dice town.

Can you walk me through that read?

[RadiantCowbells]

Scum who would know it would look really good and either wanted to let you get lynched later or thought it would go through even with you fighting it?

Do you have any other reason to townread him?

[RadiantCowbells]

Is 'because I'm town' enough?
If I was scum who wanted to kill Expedience, why wouldn't I encourage him to track me and 'confirm me as town! and confirm whether I was bussed!'

I was never intending to role cop you. I just wanted to make sure scum blew their bus if they have one. I would hope that you'd scumread me more if I actually followed through on checking you when I had telegraphed it as heavily as I did.

Like, you're scumreading me for what would be bad scum play.

I'm town, I don't feel like fighting you rn. I was wrong on Anarchy, yes. but their play was shit and they never responded to my push on them.
you're really frustrating me right now.

[RadiantCowbells]

If I got a doctor check it would confirm the target as scum, likely PR, and that all the PRs are town.
If I got a Joat/BD check it gets us scum.

Getting a vanilla result on Thor is shitty but that doesn't make the play wrong.

I'm reasonably comfortable with you being town here anyway.

[RadiantCowbells]

I checked Thor because I felt like his being off the Anarchy wagon was really deliberate and I figured if there's 3 scum in the VTs at least one of them needs to be bandying for towncred.

I'm waiting to see what the VTs do.

[RadiantCowbells]

If we get a mafia goon lynch this game is over.

[RadiantCowbells]

because that makes Thor the last remaining town in the VT pool.

[RadiantCowbells]

there's only one goon if you're town.

[RadiantCowbells]

Postie, what are your reads?

[RadiantCowbells]

I'd rather not NL since we potentially have several save opportunities to get us another mislynch for basically autowin.

[RadiantCowbells]

@Thor, All of it. Rephrase please. I want to be able to answer.

The rolecop on you made no sense. Even a check on Ranger would have been better than you IMO. The resistance to good ideas, the over eagerness to control, the terrible lynch on AS.


Out of curiosity, Cakey/FA/3dice doesn't work for you? Why?

@Frozen, two liars in the PRs means no roleblock. You'd have to go with Postie + RC in that instance.

Assuming you're town, I had a 2/4 shot of getting a guilty in the VTs.
Acting like that check doesn't make sense is complete fucking nonsense considering I have already said that I've come around to Titus and Postie being town.

VOTE: Thor

Town thor isn't this dumb. end conversation.

[RadiantCowbells]

@RC how you concluded Titus postie are town?

I don't really feel like going into my Titus read but I'm way more confident in it than my Postie scumread.

[RadiantCowbells]

Because it requires a mix of bad play and bad voting habits to be true, and 3dice gang jumping Dave over a Doc, and FA and Cake both helping him while both still listing you as a top scum read seems dumb also to basically sheep your case on Dave.

With a confirmed 5 PRs on town I think it's pretty clear that scum would have thought that Titus would get lynched during the massclaim when she was as heavily scumread as she was.
I wouldn't have had to point that out to you if you were town.

Explain it to me then, because I'm still too dumb to get it. Even presuming I am assured town, how does that get you 2/4 success ratio in the VTs?
Because that would actually require every single PR to be town for it to be true.
Did you believe that last night?

Do I need to copy paste every single time that I've said that I believed that last night?

And even if you did, why would I be dumb not to understand that - since I am openly on record as...y'know, not really believing that.
And even if I did believe it then it would be a gut read, and sorta dumb either way.

I'm not sure if you are dumb in a general case but if you're going to act like an idiot I'm going to lynch you for it.
It's worked well for me in the past.

[RadiantCowbells]

1. I did have troubles with Titus and Postie, but (as Postie kind of misremembered also) I was *long* on record for Postie town. I think I argued with you multiple times about it yesterday, so...you not recalling that is adding to your confusion. As to the Titus thing, yeah, he sucks, but I have the new RC info to look at now too - RC's investigation looked town to you?

I hereby call on Fork to explain why my investigation was not the obvious play.

I'll wait.

2. Mostly by the lack of sense in investigating me. Yesterday RC seemed to understand the real question was amongst the PRs. Last night he decided to investigate me for...reasons that I don't think make sense. Do you think they make sense? He's also now voting me, in mylo, when his investigations suggest I'm the second least likely scum in the entire game all while calling me stupid. Think about that for a moment and get back to me.

Except that I have clearly said I'm townreading all the PR claims, my votes and discussion have clearly indicated that they are my focus, and I have not at all tried to push on either Titus or Postie.
Enlighten me: are you saying that you would townread me for heavily telegraphing my investigate and then actually following through with it with a highly likely bus driver?

I agree that scum would have wanted to push for a Titus lynch...I think that belief backs up what I'm saying.
What are you saying?

That scum would not see it as a priority to night kill or mislynch Titus if they thought her claim would be disbelieved in the massclaim.
I don't need to explain this to you.

Yes, you do.
Preferably from any period *prior* to last night phase.
I'll wait.

It's pretty fucking clear that my coming around on that was an overnight thing.
One of my first posts today was saying that I thought the doc/JK were town aligned.

Where does it being prior to last night phase come into question?

Furthermore: you're acting like I saw a tactical advantage to claiming a result on a NON-TITUS/POSTIE.
However, if I was scum, there would be no bus driver: therefore I could claim ANY SORT OF RESULT on either of them and claim bussed and no one could contradict it.
Especially if I were to kill expedience.

I reiterate that I do not need to explain this to you.

What are your reads on the VT claims?

[RadiantCowbells]

Like, even if I wasn't townreading Titus/Postie?

I certainly wouldn't have fucking targeted Titus. That's ass play.

[RadiantCowbells]

Your opinion had a certain kind of certainty that made you vote the slot

which is the basic thing makes me feel bad about your vote.

why is this so waffley?

@Thor+RC, Cakey reads please

scum or Thor wouldn't be trying to push the lynch onto me RN.

That would have confirmed to you that three scum were in four slots.

Except it WOULDN'T, because if Titus is town then she gets bussed and I get a scum (inconclusive) result. If she's scum, I get a scum (inconclusive) result.

Hi I'm Fork and I'm going to pretend I don't know what a bus driver is.

[RadiantCowbells]

No shit I didn't target you. if you're town you would be bussed with one of the scum.

I considered targetting Postie but decided against it.

You certainly left the impression that you were tracking me.

What do you get if you assume that scum were acting on that assumption too?

I did that intentionally because I wanted to try to get scum to blow their bus drive if they have one left.

I think the expedience kill points to you being town because if Expe tracked me and my track was one of the VT claims that would confscum them.

I trust my townread on Titus more than my scumread on Postie, I think.

Thor is vanilla and is therefore a bad lynch plus I could see him as town.
I could see FA as town as well.

I'd like to lynch 3dice and check Sircakez tonight. I could do Sircakez if I had to though.

What about Cakey Thor 3dice or Cakey 3dice FA?

If I got a doctor check it would confirm the target as scum, likely PR, and that all the PRs are town.
If I got a Joat/BD check it gets us scum.

Getting a vanilla result on Thor is shitty but that doesn't make the play wrong.

I'm reasonably comfortable with you being town here anyway.

Oh look that was hard.

[RadiantCowbells]

Do I smell someone worried about the PoE of lack of being hammered?
Because that's what I'm feeling right now.

Holy fuck the pretend idiocy is real.

If I were scum I'm claiming that you are scum anyway: so my not being hammered just forces a 1v1 between me and you
Except it doesn't because it's MyLo not LyLo and therefore your entire post is entirely meaningless.

Thor's not an idiot as much as he's pretending to be. he's just scum.

@RC, Why wouldn't you vote Cakey with me then on the off chance Thor is derp!town and you two are T v T?

I could vote Cakez.
Thor is not town though.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm fascinated, really.

What are those 'bad voting patterns' and things that make you interpret 3dice/FA/Cakez as not a possibility? I'll wait.

[RadiantCowbells]

Your opinion had a certain kind of certainty that made you vote the slot

which is the basic thing makes me feel bad about your vote.

why is this so waffley?

@Thor+RC, Cakey reads please

scum or Thor wouldn't be trying to push the lynch onto me RN.

That would have confirmed to you that three scum were in four slots.

Except it WOULDN'T, because if Titus is town then she gets bussed and I get a scum (inconclusive) result. If she's scum, I get a scum (inconclusive) result.

Hi I'm Fork and I'm going to pretend I don't know what a bus driver is.

That's why Expedience tracking you made all the more sense RC. Expedience would tell you who you actually checked. There was no guarantee of scum having a bus driver left.

It wasn't a terrible move, no.
but why would I as scum argue against it when I was planning to kill him anyway?

[RadiantCowbells]

Like, targetting in the VTs or targetting Postie were the only options. And it should be pretty fucking obvious that I wasn't actually intending to target Titus.
Furthermore, I claimed a Titus townread long before anyone really got a chance to talk about it so implying that I was trying to leave the option open is absurd. So Thor pretending to be caught up on me having done so today as opposed to tomorrow is incredibly disingenuous. There's no strategic gain to be had.
Thor's 'But the PRs are the primary concern!' is absolute dog crap, especially considering a Bus driver target (or a target on Doc in the VTs) confirms the PRs as town just as easily.
I note that Thor has claimed 'Associatives say otherwise!' as an excuse to not vote any of the VT claims,

Like, it's pretty obvious that Thor's just jumping ship on which PR combo he wants to push because he knows that I'm not going to vote you.
Titus, why are you not townreading me? you claimed that you feel that this game matches my scum play more- can you give examples?
Why do you feel that I wouldn't have targeted in the VTs? Why do you feel that scum!RC in particular would have?

[RadiantCowbells]

I am doing things FA.
I think Titus has to go here and the presumed scum flip there will seriously help me with other scumreads. I can usually read Titus as town when it comes down to it but I'm not getting that here.

Because Town!Titus wouldn't deathtunnel in MyLo Thor?
Ugh the letter combinations confuse me. So that can be ruled out at least.

Fingers crossed that having an actual example of my recent scum play makes you realize that I'm town.

[RadiantCowbells]

I am doing things FA.
I think Titus has to go here and the presumed scum flip there will seriously help me with other scumreads. I can usually read Titus as town when it comes down to it but I'm not getting that here.

Because Town!Titus wouldn't deathtunnel in MyLo Thor?
Ugh the letter combinations confuse me. So that can be ruled out at least.

Fingers crossed that having an actual example of my recent scum play makes you realize that I'm town.

This is @ Titus.

[RadiantCowbells]

@RC, The Viva game is red flag for me. :'(

Why?

[RadiantCowbells]

I was like 90% sure she was scum. She reminded me of BaldEagle in the game you replaced into.
I'm not sure what else to tell you on that front.
Did you notice that both Cakez and Thor are trying to push for lynches in the PRs?
Don't you think that if Cakez was scum with me or anyone besides Thor that he'd be pushing for a different lynch in the VTs, as opposed to dividing our efforts with him pushing on you and me pushing on Thor?
Hell, what gain do I get by posting my result on Thor who was generally scumread and an easy lynch? I could have easily just picked 3Dice or FA who were unlikely to be lynch contenders and claim any result?

Like, you're assuming that I
1) Made the horribly shortsighted decision of pushing Expedience off me because I was afraid he'd indict me.
2) Did so in thread when I planned to kill him anyway and that makes me look really bad.
3) Claimed an inno on Thor, who I then planned to push on anyway?

I'm not this shortsighted as scum. I figured out the roleblocker claim from Ircher and immediately roleswapped with Aristo.
My scum play's better than this, and you can take that to the bank.
And bluntly, targeting in the VTs was the correct decision. I know Thor is pushing against it because it serves his tactical interests:
Don't you see something wrong with the way Thor is saying 'Oh RC is scum. You think Cakez is scum? Well his associatives with RC are bad because he's pushing on someone else???? so vote RC instead.'

[RadiantCowbells]

If I were scum, I'd have underplayed my push to check you then still killed expedience but claimed a JoAT result on you.
Then I'd have hemmed and hawwed about whether you were bussed and then depending on the direction the game went I'd 'finally reach the conclusion' that you're town/scum depending on which was easier to push.
And I'd have won fairly easily.

So, yeah.
Oh, and I can only be scum with Ranger: do we look like scumpartners to you?

[RadiantCowbells]

K because I can still lynch Cakez because I'm pretty sure you're right here: but unless you're NKed you're going to need to come to a decision on me, and bluntly there's no way scum nightkills you over Postie when she's townreading me as heavily as she is and her role is just more useful in general.

Do you really think scum brought all the PRs this late into the game if they didn't think that we'd end up turning on each other?

[RadiantCowbells]

And one last thing.

I'm aware that me deathtunnel pushing people like that is a huge scumtell for me; that's why I did it on Viva La Gloria as a secret alt. I don't do that as scum anymore on my main, besides desperate circumstances. I even said in scumchat, and you can go back and verify that, that if you knew who I was that you would instantly catch me for that and for my misrepping our meta together.

And don't compare 1781 because they're entirely different games; I was universally townread at that point and Aristo was the biggest universal scumread and because we role swapped if he got lynched I would instantly go down. there's absolutely no benefit to me having done it here and I know it looks really bad and I knew in the last game that the one lynch would win the game. Such was not the case in this game.

[RadiantCowbells]

Why does it feel like FA is literally doubtcasting every single slot in this game?

[RadiantCowbells]

Scum is Thor/Cakez + 1 of FA/3dice.

[RadiantCowbells]

You obviously didn't plan the push on me.
It showed up only after I voted you.

Who did I plan to push on, then?
You were my biggest scumread overnight so I checked you.
You can't claim I didn't have you as a scumread when the night actions say otherwise.

I would still also like to note that RC ducked this comment.
Which I think is kind of a big deal.

Checking in the VTs was the objectively correct play.
I haven't heard a counterargument that doesn't rely on someone who is town being scum?

[RadiantCowbells]

I await either

1) An explanation of why I should have instead checked someone who I expect to get a town result and not narrow down the 1/4 town in the VTs.
or
2) An explanation of why Scum!RC would have seen strategic gain in claiming a Vanilla result on the person he wanted to push on.

[RadiantCowbells]

Or are you actually suggesting I should have checked Titus? Because that's a scumclaim: I'm assuming you meant that I should have checked Postie?

[RadiantCowbells]

Like, what do I do with a Jailkeeper result on Postie?
-Lynch in the VTs.

What do I do with a non-jailkeeper result on Postie?
-Lynch in the VTs because potential bus driver predicting that I'd target Postie instead and there's still a confirmed scum in the VTs.

We were always lynching in the VTs today. Why shouldn't I narrow down the claims and potentially get a guilty?

[RadiantCowbells]

1. Because there's a difference between scumreading someone and knowing they're town - and also it allows other players to have your role backing for the read as opposed to your read alone, locking you in a position.

Except that assuming I'm going to live, which if Postie/Titus are scum is confirmed true based on their methods of killing me all having been exhausted: I have all the days I want to check them. I don't have all the days that I want to check in the VT pool before today.

So are yous aying that y

2. I don't think you expected me to do anything but push on Titus and/or accept the idea of lynching in the VTs, both of which, with you being scum, would work out fine for you. I think you came into today wanting to lynch a VT, and figured that due to my stance yesterday I'd be a supporter. I don't think you considered me an easy mislynch.

If I don't consider you an easy mislynch, why is Scum!RC pushing on you right now?
I mean, if I'm scum: there's 3 viable VT mislynches. Why would I push on the one I claimed a result that makes you a suboptimal lynch and thus my push scummy?

Are we doing the pretend RC is an idiot as scum thing again? because that's old.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like, Thor's saying that Scum!RC wanted to get his vote so I claimed a potential VT result on him, despite the fact that my checking him inherently shows that he was my biggest scumread and I only didn't speedvote him because of the vanilla result, but immediately after he voted me I had a total panic attack and omgus voted him.

Are we all having difficulty seeing why that really doesn't make sense? I mean the dude's not going to have trouble evidencing that my scumgame is at least somewhat decent, correct?

Like, this is literally exactly what he did last game. He pushed a shitty mislynch on a player he may have perceived as easily mislynchable (Titus), then when I took their side he switches over to me and pushes that my mentality was the most basic, terrible 5 year old in their first scum game playstyle. I would not freak out and OMGUS Thor here any more than that I would defend a buddy by pushing them to claim PR as opposed to bussing them in our last game. This is obvscum.

[RadiantCowbells]

I checked Thor because I felt like his being off the Anarchy wagon was really deliberate and I figured if there's 3 scum in the VTs at least one of them needs to be bandying for towncred.

I'm waiting to see what the VTs do.

I got a vanilla on Thor.

Still thinking.

Oh, you're not voting AS? I thought you were.
So yeah. Titus, you say not enough objection to an AS lynch? but of all the vts literally only Sircakez isn't jumping all over the place looking for counterwagons.
Like it should be pretty fucking damning right now that both Thor and FA are avoiding the wagon and hemming and hawwing and looking at ridiculous possibilities to try to get something else going.

If you think Thor is scum, why can't you see Thor/Anarchy?

Because it's got Cakey Thor you and Ranger for it.

Town 3dice slot is empty. If there are scum in the PRs, the most likely people are for it.

If you think FA is Anarchy's partner, join me here.

FA may be scum but I can also see her as town who is just being excessively derpy.
I don't think she's wrong that you/Postie makes a lot of sense either?

Like my biggest reason to think that FA is scum is that she's not hammering AS. I'm not voting her while AS is alive.

If you're town, why are we only agreeing on 1/3?
Like, your anarchy townread is borne out of them agreeing that Cakez is scum? What if Cakez is town?
Why are you townreading 3Dice? Why do you think Scum!FA does what she's doing right now if Anarchy is town?

@RC - can you toss out the only false PRs you see, you seemed to indicate Titus had to be scum, I'd like you to dwell on that for a spell.

If there's scum in the PRs, yes. Titus has to be scum.
Almost guaranteed to be scum with Postie as well.

Titus how do you say that AS is happening easily yet we still haven't seen a hammer.
And yeah, Thor's voting AS: but he tried to get FA going and jumped on the AS wagon when it looked rather likely to go through.
So if you're town you should see no problem with them being scum together and I don't understand why you do?

And hell, FA makes so much sense as a scumpartner. Keeps saying she's going to hammer, keeps stalling and doing other stuff hoping to see another wagon happen.

Can you sub in w your main?

Yeah, let's call it done at this point?
*pokes Shadow*

FA is easy to get votes on.
Cakez has never really been a thing.

You have a point about Thor, but he's scum if you're not so easy.

My mentions of Thor from my playing solo onward in the last two days.

I started to scumread him yesterday late in the day.
I had a major scumread on him today and 2607 alone should prove that he's pulling shit out of his ass here.

The only thing that you could even say is that me saying that I 'could see you as town' makes you my townread? but no.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like he's blatantly lying about my positions now.

@RC, Tell me why FA is town.

I was super townreading Aeronaut.
FA might be town. I'm not sure and I don't want to lynch her today so I'm waiting for another night result before I decide.

She's either going to be confirmed scum or in a 1v1 with Thor based on night actions. either way I'm not worried about trying to read her right now.

[RadiantCowbells]

My main focus here is getting you to townread me because I should be able to sort the rest of the game out via investigations.
I still can sheep you and vote Cakez whenever but I'm taking it as a given at this point that your read there is correct and am more focused on worrying about tomorrow onward.

Thor's rxns today feel like he bussed you and was hoping that I'd claim a guilty of some sort and not ask too many questions about it without Expedience to claim my real target.

[RadiantCowbells]

If you ask me to vote him I'll vote him but Thor's still gonna be scum tomorrow.

[RadiantCowbells]

Yes, it's saying that I rethought it because statistically you were more likely be town than not based on your result.
Cherry picking the ONE post that could possibly be construed as a townread doesn't work when I've said several times that I'm scumreading you.

I note that your scumread is actually super soft, and also included false information that I corrected you on, and which you kind of admitted was wrong but didn't change much.
Also, your listed scumreads there seem to be based on a Thor/Anarchy team which I would expect to cause a change in your reads somewhat.
But I'm the one misrepresenting you? Ha!

Yes, it was based on a Thor/Anarchy team yesterday. Doesn't mean that I didn't think you were scum independently

[RadiantCowbells]

Ranger/Postie is impossible btw.

[RadiantCowbells]

I will admit, I cherry picked your most recent read on me that had nothing to do with me being scum paired with Anarchy, yes.
Don't really think that's as buzzwordy as you're trying to make it seem, but...ya got me!

I literally made a list of quotes involving you and the vast majority didn't mention Anarchy.
Have you just given up on this game or what?

You never really said that though, but I'll admit that maybe you did think that.
Doesn't justify the vote timing today though, does it?

Had a good reason to scumread you for voting me off shit reasoning -> voted you. perfect vote timing.

You never really said that though, but I'll admit that maybe you did think that.
Doesn't justify the vote timing today though, does it?

Did in a laundry list of quotes.

Oh, and for the record: Scum!Thor tries to argue with his scumreads.
Town!Thor ignores them and tries to lynch them.

Read http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=65818
Compare and contrast with his mentality in this game.

Didn't - I thought she was town, that's why I wasted time explaining to her why her case on me was bad.
I shot Mollie - I thought she was scum, it's why I stopped talking to her.

Like, Thor's not trying to convince anyone: he's just bogging the thread down in a gigantic series of blatant lies about the things that I've said.
This is basically what he did in the last newbie I was in with him.
Conversely, when he's been town he's barely engaged his scumreads and focused on convincing other people to vote him instead.

So, scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

He's also repeatedly claiming victory in terms of citing me backing off of things or me being proven wrong: but when asked to point to any they don't exist.

[RadiantCowbells]

@RC, The Viva game is red flag for me. :'(

This is also the main cause of my RC paranoia fyi, although it's not for the Titus push. RC's Titus push in that game was much more focused and aggressive. It's more for how RC has been basically universally townread all game yet is still alive Day 4 which is always concerning.

Except that we've established that a night kill attempt was probably made on me the night there was no kill.

[RadiantCowbells]

Did you not read Ranger's post?

[RadiantCowbells]

2607 literally destroys your argument because before you had said ANYTHING I expressed the fact that I scumread you and the fact that I checked you strongly indicates such.
I agree that I did mention Anarchy a lot yesterday: that doesn't mean the case was predicated on Anarchy being scum. That was just how I was selling things to Titus.
Your case continues to be predicated on me inventing the scumread in reaction to your push on me: which 2607 expressly disproves.

I don't need to have this argument with you even. no one here in this game besides you agrees with your claims, not even your partners.

Your "good reason" was that I lackedlogic in my vote on you.
My reason for a vote on you was that you lacked reason in investigating me.
By that logic more people should now vote you, as you have claimed that is bad logic to vote someone over. You're arguing a dumb Catch-22 and trying to justify your bad vote while openly admitting that I am not logically the best lynch - which proves my reasoning for voting you because you are not playing logically.

lalalalala.
You weren't logically the best lynch before you became my #1 scumread beyond a shadow of a doubt.
Now you are.

I think you're full well aware that I prioritize reads over unconfirmed investigative results?

And I have noted the Anarchy thread in them,and how they don't apply to today - yes.

Why does it matter?
I was scumreading you yesterday: fact.
I was scumreading you early today: fact.
I didn't want to vote you because of the result: fact.
You acted like a total scumSmurf so I voted you: fact.

When have I ever ignored scum reads?
Maybe after I dismantle them, but never before - feel fre to provide any evidence backing up this theory.
I'll wait.

Try the game that I pulled that quote from.
I mean, Mollie WAS town though. if only someone wasn't hard defending the fuck out of scum because 'you'd vig them overnight' and then you shot my biggest townread.

You are missing that I am grinding on both FA and Titus.
But I don't think they are.
Keep shoveling.

You have not pushed either of them to vote me, you have not made a legitimate case on me to either of them.

Name one subject I've dropped.
I'll, again, wait.

I said you were scum and I provided evidence.
You backed off and said I only said you were scum WITH Anarchy.
I proved that I had said it both today independently AND yesterday.

You said I had voted you because I was worried that I would be PoEd as scum by no one hammering either of us.
This subject was dropped.

You said that my tracking in the VTs was scummy.
I don't see you continuing to provide any arguments to that effect.

You made a bunch of different reasons that I wouldn't have wanted Expedience to target me.
I haven't seen any counterarguments there: and frankly who besides Expedience would I kill?
I can't vote Ranger because I have her innoed. Titus makes Postie conftown. Postie was protected and uber townreading me.

Any more shitty reasons to scumread me?

[RadiantCowbells]

1. I never backed off of anything, I am still saying you didn't call me scum today till after I voted you.
I literally just proved that you were talking about me only in relation to Anarchy.
You have not proven that.

I checked Thor because I felt like his being off the Anarchy wagon was really deliberate and I figured if there's 3 scum in the VTs at least one of them needs to be bandying for towncred.

I'm waiting to see what the VTs do.

outplayed.

By you. Yes.
You never countered that thought - I still hold it, so...how would I have dropped it?

I did because apparently you can't tell the difference between MyLo and LyLo.
Of course you can: you're just a scumfuck.

Except I have, I literally described why I saw it as your scum plan.

You created a narrative of something I could have been doing as scum and called it scumhunting.
and again your scum plan assumes that I'm a bronze 5 first time scum.

boom, roasted. you should like, y'know, not repeat the exact same scum play as you did last time. this time I realized you're a scumSmurf and not just an exceedingly thick exceedingly stupid townie.

Actually that was Titus - we're both town, so I can get you mixing that up.
I never made that an issue of my case in any way at all.

The easy answer to that would be - you would have preferred killing someone other than Expedience.
Or, maybe you play scum like I do, and wouldn't push something you couldn't at least generally believe in.
Or, maybe we could note that you didn't even argue against it that much (if at all - I just recall you suggesting he target a VT) so I don't even see the point here.

You are correct here actually.
20 points to Forkfindor!

What about the Thor half where I'm in the right
He's straight up lying and misrepping me on multiple fronts - I've shown this.
He's, meanwhile, kinda vaguely saying I'm misrepping things, but the only point h has is me saying he was townreading me today (which I still think he did) and he argued that he didn't, but hasn't justified how what he said qualifies as a town case.
He hasn't cited me on any other lies.

I literally made a list.
I concur that one of them was in fact wrong, however.

How do you think he's winning, exactly?
Like, what lie did he catch me in?
What argument point did he own my face on?
C'mon man, back this up.

See list.
It's not too far back.
In the future, I highly recommend actually reading through the thread before posting.

What stances have I distanced from?
Name them.
And how is my move opportunistic? I know you're parroting FA here, but it's not reality. Like, my big opportunistic move was to go straight at the throat of one PR after pushing the other all day yesterday? Yeah, real subtle and slick stuff there.

Literally made a list.

@FA - the court presents evidence Part duex

Don't you try to turn FA against me.
I'll have you know that FA has literally never participated in one of my mislynches when she was town, and has caught or FoSed me in the vast majority of my scum games.
She's the last town, right?

Note how earlier he claimed that scum had used up all their anti-PR stuff and I asked him how and got dead silence?
Yeah

I said IF Postie is scum the above was true.
Ranger docced Heartless N1: Therefore Strongman/RB.
I was roleblocked: therefore the roleblock is gone.

THEREFORE STRONGMAN AND ROLEBLOCK ARE GONE.

Fork.isSmurfed == true.

[RadiantCowbells]

i am drunk.

I demand Titus engaging me asap if she's here.

[RadiantCowbells]

And like this is so silly because half of the game knows me, Fork.

No one in this game will scum or townread me based on the correctness of my arguments: all of them know that I'm going to flub something as town and everyone here knows that my ability to argue and debate is unparalleled as scum and if I was scum I'd easily get the upper hand here anyway.

They're townreading me for my play. In the newbie, everyone townread me for my play.

You can keep wallposting, keep insisting that I'm a 12 year old in his first scumgame making terrible plays, keep lying about how the game played out, but you're already lynched.
I await an explanation of why you were wrong about FA/3Dice/Sircakez when we've lynched 2 of you. That will be very funny to read.

[RadiantCowbells]

correct.

[RadiantCowbells]

Vt

I'll try and avoid spamming board with irrelevant comments about the early game shenanigans, especially since some of it will likely have been layer addressed. If something is interesting, I'll try and track/note it.

Ps who has which jk/doc visited when? Any consensus on who made the n2 save?

It's almost certainly me giving that I was softing my Ranger result with all the subtlety of a jackhammer

[RadiantCowbells]

Vt

I'll try and avoid spamming board with irrelevant comments about the early game shenanigans, especially since some of it will likely have been layer addressed. If something is interesting, I'll try and track/note it.

Ps who has which jk/doc visited when? Any consensus on who made the n2 save?

It's almost certainly me giving that I was softing my Ranger result with all the subtlety of a jackhammer

What was almost certainly you? You mean you were n2 target? Something else?

I almost certainly healed Ranger from bullet.

Why don't you think that I was the target?

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm convinced.

VOTE: Thor.
It's the 3-scum-VTs scenario.

What convinced you? FA noted that RC had claimed a vanilla result on Thor, making him a mechanical semi-clear (i.e. he could ONLY be a goon if he's mafia, presuming that RC/Ranger isn't mafia). Presuming that's correct, why vote Thor over FA or SC (who presumably had no such results)? Or me (who apparently got one "stayed home" result from Spiff/Exp)?

what about Thor vaila result is special? I mean sc was apparently in jail and I was checked like you to not visiting anyone.

not sure what are you trying to pressure here.

Wait a minute...

Ranger claimed healing Heartless night 1 then postie claimed she had her in jail that night (heartless died night 1) RC checked Ranger that night and confirm her as doc and titus was healing anarchy If I remember it right

during night 2 RC was in jail by postie , Ranger healed RC and Titus healed ranger

during night 3 RC confirmed Thor is vanilla , SC was in jail by postie , Titus healed postie if I recall it right and Ranger healed RC

expe checked me and 3 dice night 1 and 2 in order "no move" were both results

So among the 4 VT claims, if you believe all of the claimed results...

1) Thor is VT or goon due to RC
2) FA stayed home N1 (or ninja'd) due to Exp
3) MHS stayed home N2 (or ninja'd) due to Exp
4) SC stayed home N3 (or strongman'd, or was blocked on a different JOAT action, or maybe was freed due to a seemingly random bus driver action) due to Postie's jail

Can someone bottom line the case on why:

1) Postie/Titus believe RC/Ranger; or
2) RC/Ranger believe Postie/Titus; or
3) RC/Ranger/Postie/Titus are heavily suspicious of the VT claims, and RC/Ranger of Thor in particular

I'm trying to envision a world in which it's a FA/Thor/SC team, and in which RC/Ranger are town PR's and want to eliminate the "goon or VT" Thor slot in particular. Mentally I'm having a hard time holding that paradigm together. I need to actually read the thread to be sure, but it seems kind of weird right now.


@Titus: VCA without mafia flips is limited, but it can at least be used as a tool to evaluate the flow of the game. It can ALSO be used as a tool to evaluate the reasonableness of specific mafia teams, like for instance the 3VT scenario, or a RC/Ranger team, or a Postie/Titus team. It almost certainly can't be a smoking gun, but it can be a tool. As someone who's coming in kinda cold, I feel like it's at least potentially useful. Though I guess we'll see. *shrugs*

Because Thor is an obvious scumfuck regardless of the result?

Good on you to defend him though.

[RadiantCowbells]

Mostly? The posting of the other VTs.

You mean the two scum and one town?

Silly Fork!

[RadiantCowbells]

Titus, how are you townreading Mhsmith?

Like I can't fathom how you're townreading either of the occupants of that slot.

FA is pretty fucking obviously the town in the VTs.

[RadiantCowbells]

Thor's argument is that I'm scum because I made a play that he can't argue is the wrong decision but is instead arguing that I didn't in fact believe either that you were town or that he was scum even though I made both of those reads explicit in my earliest reads today.

Like, you think Cakez is scum, which I agree with FTR? What do you think is more likely, that I as his scumpartner have been hard defending him when I could have just bussed him and lynched Thor or whoever the next day or that his scumbuddies are pulling out a last ditch push to try and get me lynched?

Mhsmith even said that since there's a confirmed scum in Mhsmith/Thor/RC if there's no quickhammer: which, assuming Titus is town, was already confirmed:
But he's posting that without even having voted me. So you've complained about me deflecting from Cakez but I fully explained my townread; they're both hard defending Cakez while Thor has claimed that he's a 50/50 for scum in the VTs with FA (who is obvious town and if Thor were actually town he would have Cakez as confirmed scum based on FA's recent play) and Mh has said virtually nothing at all regarding Cakez.

He's also pushing on me for wanting to lynch Thor despite the VT result: like no shit why wouldn't I want to lynch Thor when he's this big of a scumfuck.
I'm tired. It's Cakez/Thor/Mhsmith. I'm ready to vote Cakez because their collective defense of him suggests that he's their JoAT and they specifically want him alive.

Like, everyone super townread me in the VTs and pushed on you. Then I made it clear that I was never voting you and all of the pressure jumped over to me.

That's not town play.

[RadiantCowbells]

If I have your vote for Thor tomorrow I'd rather lynch Cakez since it looks like he might be scum PR.

[RadiantCowbells]

Holy fuck the emotional manipulation is real.

MH, if you're actually town you're playing so bad that it's not even funny.

[RadiantCowbells]

No, there's gonna be no discussion tomorrow.
I will speedvote you and you will get lynched, period.
If you're town, then you shouldn't have managed to fuck this up to the point that you can literally call everyone else in your pile scum and yet you haven't managed to scumread one of them.

[RadiantCowbells]

If I have your vote for Thor tomorrow I'd rather lynch Cakez since it looks like he might be scum PR.

Don't be a dipshit

The fact everyone has just settled into this thinking of "all the scum are in the VT claims let's lynch 'em zzzzzzzzzz" is mind boggling.
You think, in a playerlist this strong, scum thought it would be a good idea to all claim VT? Hell no. There is scum in the PR claims.

RC, your logic here is balls. No one is defending me. Titus, Postie, FA, and you have all expressed willingness to lynch me.
And I do think Thor slot is scum now given how he hasn't been quickhammered. If Thor is scum then probably mh too. That still leaves a third scum, which I am 99% sure is Titus.

It makes total sense in a 5 PR setup not to CC pr and hope town self destruct on each other.

If you're town, you don't get to bitch at me for misreading the game state given everything that has happened to date.

I was wrong on Anarchy: yes. None of the other lynches hit my major scumreads.

What exactly clears Titus from being scum with two VT claims?

There's got to be an odd number of PRs.

If there's two VT claims that are scum, why aren't you focusing your efforts on trying to lynch them?

[RadiantCowbells]

I was wrong on Anarchy: yes. None of the other lynches hit my major scumreads.

Oh, so you just compromised onto questionable mislynch wagons then? Oh that's much more towny behavior then.

I was on the wrong wagons, yes.
Enlighten me: why is it scummy that I was on a few wrong wagons when as scum I make a huge effort to avoid being on mislynches UNLESS I super hard led them?

Anarchy could be considered something that I might do as scum. First two wagons? never.

[RadiantCowbells]

How's 'because its not'?

I'm perfectly happy to lynch Thor today as well.

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't answer to you.

@Postie
If you'd prefer to lynch Thor first I'm totally fine with that. I'm seriously not understanding how you don't see Smith as scum right now though.

[RadiantCowbells]

Just a sec.

Cakez, we're lynching in the VTs. Probably you.

Why should we believe you're town and who are you most certain is scum in the VTs?

[RadiantCowbells]

What if Cakez is actually town and FA's scum?

[RadiantCowbells]

Ehh.

But Smith is pushing for the Thor lynch, though I'd guess that all the scum would be trying to distance from each other to try and get a mislynch onto the real VT.

[RadiantCowbells]

Neither Ranger nor Titus has ever managed to fool me as scum, and I have an inno result on Ranger.

I hate how all the VTs are trying to push for a lynch in the PRs.

[RadiantCowbells]

Before we go anywhere, all the VT claims:

If there's only 1 scum in the VTs, who is it?

[RadiantCowbells]

Me and Ranger were never both on Thor long enough to enable a quickhammer, correct?

[RadiantCowbells]

Yeah, so unless scum were explicitly not interested in quickhammering Thor should be scum.

Not that Sircakez isn't scum anyway.

ninja'd: @RC: Aren't you and Ranger both still on Thor? So if it was a FA/SC/MHS or Postie/Titus/x(other than Thor) team, it could be quick-hammered even now? Or did I miss an unvote? As far as who the "x" is in a "2 PR + 1 VT" team, if it's Titus-Postie, the x is very likely Thor (basically it has to be given non hammer, although I guess in that world then they'd have blown their strongman and their roleblock, so I guess they'd be more careful with quick-hammer, so MAYBE it's not Thor in that world). If it's you and Ranger, I think it's FA. If it's you and Titus... I don't know.

Umm.

Except that if that's the case we've basically already got our choice of hammer on Cakez and Thor.

Were you planning to actually do something about that?

[RadiantCowbells]

You are claiming to believe that I'm scum yet you're only addressing me.

Is there a reason for this?

[RadiantCowbells]

Postie, Ranger, is it difficult to figure out that I meant if they were bussed with Titus?

[RadiantCowbells]

How did you cross that off?

[RadiantCowbells]

FA isn't even here though?

[RadiantCowbells]

*pokes FA*

[RadiantCowbells]

I want a birthday present FA

[RadiantCowbells]

I find it likelier that SC is mafia than Thor (though still reading), I find it much likelier that SC is mafia PR than Thor, and I find it likelier that Titus/Postie is town/town than RC/Ranger is town/town.

I suppose this

is

valid, though.

If Thor is scum, he is probably vanilla anyway.

So,
VOTE: SirCakez.

I'm not ready to sheep, but I don't think I object. lol if this is part one of the quick-hammer though (if that happens, anti doesn't get to be mad at me post-game like he was in our last game together).

For it to be a quickhammer FA would need to vote.

[RadiantCowbells]

FA, assuming that it is in fact Titus/Postie, who would your 1 pick for scum be in the VTs?

[RadiantCowbells]

FA pls

[RadiantCowbells]

Ugh FA just vote please.

[RadiantCowbells]

FA what if Postie came on. pls just vote.

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: SirCakez

[RadiantCowbells]

ffs FA.

[RadiantCowbells]

That didn't need to take 17 minutes >.>

[RadiantCowbells]

Nope! we had autowin

Roleblock Postie, night kill Titus.