Open 654 | Surrealism - Game over

[The_Jester]

Hi.

VOTE: Dunnstral

[The_Jester]

Impeccable reasoning Blackstar. I'll sheep that hard.
VOTE: umlaut
Heads up I don't scumhunt because it's stupid and leads to basically random lynches. I'm warming to town read into PoE but that could be a symptom of positivity bias that suggests because when I town read someone I am statistically likely to be right, I end up believing my townreads are accurate.

It's fine. Townhunting's an equally valid method as scumhunting and may bring even more spectacular results if done right. Especially in this setup. Don't feel forced to act according to meta if your method works for you.

[The_Jester]

Well that was weird.

[The_Jester]

It's fine. Townhunting's an equally valid method as scumhunting and may bring even more spectacular results if done right. Especially in this setup. Don't feel forced to act according to meta if your method works for you.

Seeks to pocket me by supporting the part about town reads while ignoring the part that disputes the validity of town reads.
Or is just town trying to be supportive.
See how difficult it is being reasonable people? Eh fuck it I'll vote you anyway just to be safe.
VOTE: The_Jester

I took your #8 as a sign of being insecure (maybe somebody gave you shit for the way you play before) so I just wanted to back you up to make you focus on the game instead of wondering whether you're playing "the right way". I don't see how I could "pocket" you by that. Are you prone to buddying?
Also, what did you mean by voting me "just to be safe"?

[The_Jester]

I had similar feelings towards Aubrey's entrance as Blackstar but I don't think he deserves a vote solely for that.

FOS THE GUY WHO'S TRYING TO ASK RANDOM QUESTIONS ON PAGE 3

Eh as much as I dislike RQS, I think it's more likely to come from newbtown in this case.

3: I think the town has to be really careful, unless I don't get the setup and it selects the same row or column on each, then we just have to deal with two nightkills and less clear potential.

Could you elaborate what you meant by that?

Town hunting and PoE aren't as effective in multifaction games, as I said above.

I disagree. Townhunting can be very effective if done right (if you let scum slip into your townbloc, you're not much of a townhunter). And it's especially good in this setup. Why? Cause both anti-town factions will try to get rid of each other first, out of fear for crosskills. Hence, they will scumhunt in a manner resembling town scumhunting which will make them hard to spot from our perspective. Only town has reasons to townhunt here. And PoE becomes amazingly useful after the first scumflip.

[The_Jester]

I would argue that a player almost always gains MORE towncred by criticizing someone's townread of them. You can accept the single townread or you can critique it and receive multiple others.

This is just ugly WIFOM territory. I've taken Aubrey's response as genuine town and his latest posts have erased the bad initial impression in my eyes.

[The_Jester]

This isn't some corner-case play. It's the clear best play at this point in the game, and it isn't rocket science figuring out that it is.

Even so, I don't get that fake, elaborate feeling from his response. It looks natural.

[The_Jester]

If I know that I'm town, of course I'm going to think that way

Yeah, but it convinces nobody but you, and makes me raise an eyebrow. These kinds of posts could easily come from scum, especially earlygame when they are trying to get into a towny mindset and blend in. So show me in actions that you are town rather than trying to tell me so!

This is a good observation. Especially in conjunction with

1) Mafia

You must be having a blast right now.

What a dumb post.

Which seems like a weird allergic reaction to being called scum. I'd imagine a townie would just ignore such remark.

@Umlaut what about #158 don't you like especially? There's plenty of various stuff in there so I'm curious.

[The_Jester]

^

I don't think factors like the number of pages should be taken as a constant since the content included in them is different each time.

[The_Jester]

I'm inclined to agree with that.

[The_Jester]

So I've seen a few comments regarding the fear of scum hiding or lurking, but in a game with two opposing factions that are threatened both during the day and night is it really best for the mafia to hide/lurk? In a game where it is just town/mafia I'd say yes, but I don't think that would be the case here since it would be beneficial for scum to hunt scum as we've said already. I'd argue that they would be somewhere where the action is.

That all being said inactivity or lurking still is harmful to the town.

I don't think scum would want to lurk under any circumstances cause

a) They wanna have control over the course of the game
b) Less active players are often scumread cause many people subconciously connect activity with towness (which is invalid)


On a side note, your post seems like something scum would say to stay relevant and appear active. Mainly because you took an irrelevant topic atm (lurking) and presented a twisted interpretation (I don't think anybody has stated fear for lurkers being scum, if anything Mimikyu said that he's afraid of letting lurkers lurk cause they usually turn out to be

town

in #174). Whereas you haven't given any hint of which side of conflict you're on regarding Blackstar vs Umlaut/Zach.


pedit that feeling is mutual

[The_Jester]

Zach looks town to me and his argument with BlackStar looks TvT after rereading.

Not a huge fan of Gamma and Dunnstral.

Liking Mimikyu and MeowMix.

I don't see the motivation behind Dunnstral's vote on Zach (besides his early meta read which isn't worth much imo).
Like, the only thing I agree with him on is his comment about Gamma's vote but he's not the first person to point it out.

Dunn hasn't adressed any specific parts of Zach's ISO and doesn't seem to have read the game much:

What was addressed was that BlackStar strawmanned and deflected what Umlaut conveyed better in #176 than apparently I have in all my posts. I'm quite sure we all know how " strong " his scumread is. No one is feigning ignorance of anything at this point.

Keep using random buzzwords, pal

These "random buzzwords" was Zach paraphasing Umlaut's #176, which is even written in the quote you've provided. I don't get what you were trying to do here, make Zach look incompetent?

VOTE: Dunnstral

[The_Jester]

I liked it. But no.

[The_Jester]

+1 for Zach who apparently doesn't give a fuck about towncred. Cracked me up properly.

@Java I don't believe there's a unanimous answer to your question. The mod was kind enough to provide you with a fresh VC so maybe it's time to put in some effort?

[The_Jester]

Well nobody else really reacted to the vote

Let's just say I was slightly irked by the post before my vote

What irked you? Umlaut's coasting?

Losing confidence on BlackStar though

What made you feel better about him?


Gamma has me conflicted. Like, judging by the content provided by him I can't say he's done anything particularly towny. But looking solely at his reactions, they seem rather genuine. I don't think I'll be able to read him correctly before I get to know him better.

Question to anybody willing to answer: why do you give Gamma so much shit for omgusing Meow while Blackstar didn't get any heat for doing this to Umlaut?

[The_Jester]

@SS Yeah we could do that. I think you're town too.

[The_Jester]

Blackstar's said he's good at reading intentions. Maybe that's what got stuck somewhere in the back of your head.

Funny thing is, I just went back to check it and found a potential slip which I've missed before:

I'm pretty decent at judging people's intentions

based off of their town and word choice

, so I was just following my instincts.

In the highlighted part I believe Blackstar's wanted to say: "based off their tone and word choice" but subconciously used the word "town" instead. Now, that could suggest he's seeing other players as town by default cause he himself's mafia-aligned.

I realize this is a big stretch and I'm not gonna make a big deal out of it, especially that I've townread Blackstar this game. I'm posting this just for reference.

[The_Jester]

I could say it was a reaction test but it wasn't However Zach's response has solidified my townread on him. Not sure about Gamma though. Wanna help me out?

[The_Jester]

I townread Zach mostly for being uncompromising and genuine (I think, cause I can't meta read him). Plus I agree with his reads (maybe apart from Mimikyu but I'll have to ISO him tomorrow).

[The_Jester]

SOY EL FUEGO QUE ARDE TU PIEL
SOY EL AGUA QUE MATA TU SED

I'm a bit drunk. See ya tomorrow.

[The_Jester]

Some of GE's more recent posts.

"Frustrated lynchbait" is exactly how I feel right now.

Why would a Town player identify as lynchbait? In my opinion it seems like scum are more likely to do that as claiming to be lynchbait may be an attempt at stopping your lynch. This is slightly scummy.

Great job guys. I tried to be active in the discussion, and this is what happens. I guess I'll just copy my EpicMafia habits and lurk all the time. Thanks for teaching me this valuable lesson.

This is also rubbish misrep. What matters is not whether you are actve, but what you say. Lurking is anti-Town.

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

That vote was garbage. Despite how morally dubious Gamma's statement was, he doesn't seem to have followed on it and your vote seems very opportunistic. I can only see two mindsets which are likely to cling onto such obvious red flags: newbtown or scum.
You don't seem to be reading the game and address only these parts which stand out exceptionally and don't require much thought. I get that you may be busy irl but come on.
What other scumreads to you have?

[The_Jester]

V/LA until Monday

[The_Jester]

Prodge, will catch up and post tomorrow
Big sorry xoxo

[The_Jester]

I'm halfway through my catch-up post.

[The_Jester]

Sorry for my inactivity but I've just quit my shitty job and got a new one, which is an improvement but leaves me with very little free time.

Let's do the catch-up thing.

Spoiler:

p19:

MeowMix's right about BTD6's vote on Gamma being bad.
Zach seems to share this notion but doesn't elaborate which is weak.
S_S provoking discussion but some of his questions seem very forced, like #461; good point about multiball.
Don't like Dunn putting so much weight on pure meta stuff.

p20:

Aubrey makes sense and I too don't think Zach was scum-whiteknighting BTD6.
Zach's reaction to Dunn's tunnelling seems geuine and I doubt they can be scum together.
Ari with excuses (Q.Q quote walls).
Aubrey's vote on Dunn is logical.
Also not surprised Gamma decided to jump on Dunn's wagon, after Aubrey's arguments.
Not sure I agree with Blackstar that sheeping's inherently scummy.
Stuff like #491 makes me townread Blackstar hard.

p21:

Wtf was the purpose for Dunn's #502? To me it's like he knows BTD's scum and sets people up for a mislynch after BTD's scumflip. If he gets lynched before Dunn and actually flips scum, I'm gonna be very suspicious of Dunn (well, even more than I'm now). His #503 also makes me wonder about a potential bus strat.
Aubrey's #505 pretty much sums up my thoughts on Dunn.
I like Gamma's stance there.
Blackstar makes a good point with his 1v1 with BTD in #511.
BTD blames his weak play on RL and I can understand him but I'm not sure if that's truly the case here.
SS made a good point about Ari looking fake but he retracted. Not a fan.
Like Aubrey's response to SS regarding pressuring BTD in #518.
Blackstar and Aubrey seem to have a similar mindset. Both are my townreads at this point.

p22:

SS has rightfully pointed out Gamma's just repeating after others with no new content to add. Gamma's next few posts seem very weak too.
Found Aubrey's #548 to be insightful and it shows he's actively scumhunting and analysing the game.

p23:

Gamma doesn't seem to actually read the game and only after people pressure him, he picks somebody to ISO and goes: hey, this guy is pretty scummy, no? And just picks another target after being convinced otherwise. And he calls Dunn inconsistent...
Don't like Dunn's vote on Gamma.
Zach wanting to lynch Mimikyu after the guy's been gone for so long seems really weird.
More excuses from Ari, his #572 seems really fake. His cheerful attitude seems very forced.

p24:

Note: Blackstar didn't want to vote Gamma when BTD and Umlaut were on him but he's okay with Dunn/Ari.
About Ari's #579: I don't agree with his opinion on Mimikyu. Also his whole analysis boils down to: "peeps u so random and play bad lol! I guess I don't have to put any effort into reading this game lol!" ugh...
Zach's #582/584 make me townread him a little bit less.
Dunn seems to have quite a huge ego. In #586 he seems to be saying: I'm a better scum player than you realise. Not sure scum would want to push something like this into the spotlight but it could be a tease.
I'm actually starting to dislike Zach in #590. He's blamed Dunn for tunnelling him but all he does at this point is talk about Dunn and use it as an excuse not to talk about other stuff. But then he follows with a pretty good point on BTD in #593 so I don't know.
SS's talking about putting pressure on nullish players but does nothing about it :/

p25:

Again Blackstar's reading in my mind. Aaand ofc Aubrey agrees with him too. Townbloc anyone?
SS's bare 'pressure' vote on Meow in #604 is pretty laughable. Come on, you can do better than that!
After reading Mimikyu's ISO and Zach's case on him I can actually see Mimikyu as potential scum. Not enough content to be decisive as of yet though.
Ari still in the vacuum.
Liking Zach here.

Okay I won't be able to finish my catch up tonight so I'm gonna post this as it is and follow with the second part tomorrow. Way too much content to break through at once.

[The_Jester]

Ok I'm pretty sure Ari's scum. More thoughts in a few hours.

[The_Jester]

Ok this part of the catch-up will be brief cause at this rate I'm not gonna make it before DL.
I'll try to omit Ari cause I wanna make a separate case on him.

Spoiler:

p26:

Gamma/Ari posting fluff, Gamma sees that and tries to question Ari, although in a low-effort manner.
Aubrey calls out Dunn but his response makes sense.
Blackstar doesn't think Dunn or Ari are scummy at this point, SS shames Gamma.

p27:

Aubrey continues pushing Dunn and honestly they're both right in most aspects but seem to perceive things differently.
BTD states neither Ari nor Gamma look town.
Dunn wants to lynch BTD and I don't blame him but I think it's too early.
SS agrees with BTD and unvotes Meow after not really achieving anything (but btf the guy has been absent)
Dunn states Gamma's scummy and switches his vote to him. He also states Aubrey retracting from his push is scummy but I imo it was the reasonable thing to do.
Gamma with some pointless metagame talk.

p28:

SS and Ari join him.
Gamma tries to take initiative but it's pretty dire.
Yakko enters the game.
Aubrey changes his vote to Gamma (although he's not convinced), Ari follows with an opportunistic vote.
Blackstar/Gamma argue semantics. Meh.

p29:

Zach defends Gamma.
Yakko catches up but I'm not gonna repeat after him. I'll sort out this slot tomorrow. Although I found his statement of being ready to lynch SS on the sole basis of him not voting pretty dumb.
SS buddies him.
Ari does too and explains his scumread on Skold. I'll address that later.

p30:

Gamma jumps in and tries to put suspicion on Yakko on account of Skold doing some kind of a scumtell in another game. AND he says "I don't wanna suspect Yakko for this". Ugh.
BTD townreads Yakko after scumreading Skold previously.
Umlaut townreads Yakko too. He states he didn't suspect Skold and that's true.
Yakko explans why he thinks not using votes looks scummy to him and it pretty much explains his earlier assault on SS.

p31:

Blackstar jumps off the Gamma wagon again. If I didn't townread Blackstar, I'd read it as trying to derail the wagon by scumpartner.
Blackstar's reasoning in #757 reminds me why he's my strongest townread.
Ari and Aubrey dislike Blackstar's vote on SS.
Vaxkiller enters.
Blackstar explains he didn't like that SS parked his vote on Meow and didn't do anything about it. Fair enough.

p32:

Aubrey defends SS and both him and Blackstar have some good points.
Gamma with another portion of fluff.
Dunn makes a good point in #798.

p33:

Umlaut townreads SS.
Zach jumps on Aubrey but I don't think it's justified. Dunn instantly follows up with the vote. I wanna say I like it but at the same time it's weird he'd sheep Zach whom he's been scumreading.
Agree with Umlaut's #816.
Vaxkiller catches up and I can't say I agree with his vote on me but I may be biased.
Ari looks dead set on Gamma.
Vax doesn't find Gamma scummy but would like to see Dunn lynched cause he finds him what? Coasting?. That's pretty bullshit imo.
Zach still wants to lynch Mimikyu even though he sees it's NOT GONNA HAPPEN WITH THE DUDE BEING ABSENT. Sigh.

p34:

Vax seems to scumread me for lurking. Mkay.
Looks like Dunn heavily scumreads people who change their reads often and sheep popular wagons. I can see why. He switches back to Gamma.
Gamma brings up OMGUS like it's some kind of a magic word that invalidates Dunn's vote on him. I hate when people do that.
Umlaut calls Dunn opportunistic but votes him in an even more opportunistic manner. Eww.
SS deems counterwagons pointless but doesn't seem to have a solid reason to scumread Gamma or Dunn. This is very disappointing. That's not the SS I know.
Zach hardcore defends Dunn but I agree with him that this wagon's pretty shit.

p35:

Gamma tries to take the credit for Dunn's push which is absolutely ridiculous.
I have no idea what Dunn meant in #864. Help?
Dunn states town's performance is subpar but I'm not surprised, with 3 opposing factions.
Vax makes a good observation about Gamma being very self-conscious.

p36:

Umlaut votes Gamma again in an opportunistic manner.
Aubrey has trouble reading Gamma and I can see why.
Umlaut continues questioning Gamma based on Vax's observation which seems like faking being useful.
Ari votes Dunn which is a cherry on top of his game. An utterly ugly and disgusting cherry.
Umlaut comes up with his brilliant theory on Zach/Dunn scumteam which is just stupid at this point, as Blackstar pointed out.

Caught up.

UNVOTE:

I don't think Dunn's a viable lynch today and I don't like how people jumped on the wagon with little to none justification.
I could lynch Gamma but the lack of counterwagons bothers me.
I'm gonna ISO Ari and make a case on him and decide whether he's as scummy as it appears to me right now cause I think he may be a good counterwagon. Then I'll decide on my vote.

[The_Jester]

Sigh so I started writing my case on Ari and halfway through I realized most of his posts seem scummy to me cause I WANT him to be scum. I'm starting to think it's just his playstyle that makes me feel uneasy but I could say the same about Gamma so fuck me.
I can say Ari isn't really acting pro-town in my eyes but I don't think that makes him scum necessarily...


But just so you see my POV and don't think I'm talking out of my ass, there are 4 main things I dislike about Ari:

1. Faking being helpful/buddying.
2. Overbearing number of excuses/Not keeping promises of catching up in-thread.
3. Posting a lot of fluff/IIoA to appear active.
4. Lack of strong scumreads/switching votes at a whim.


And his overall cheerfulness which just seems so plastic. I mean who the hell talks like this?!

I'm excitedly waiting this case on me. Should be a fun one!

But I have no previous experience with him so that may be just how he is...

Ad1: #41, #43, #50, #59, #135, #142, #386,
Ad2: #298, #385, #482, #485, #567
Ad3: #56, #71, #171, #300, #572, #574, #611, #628, #681


I realize some of these things could be said about most of us, me included, so I don't think it warrants a lynch wagon. Welp.

Gamma doesn't look too good but my gut tells me he's town. I'll vote him before DL out of necessity. I really don't see any viable counterwagons atm and it sucks.

[The_Jester]

Why would he bus a partner in multiball, especially one widely townread anyway? Are you saying we should look for another mafia in people Umlaut pushed to lynch?
Why did you scumread Blackstar before and what points to him being associated to SS?

[The_Jester]

I'm not fond of Vax so I can sheep this

VOTE: Vax

[The_Jester]

Dunno what he thinks of me atm but his catchup was very lackluster and he did nothing to make me feel good about him to date

[The_Jester]

Sooo

[The_Jester]

VOTE: Ari

[The_Jester]

Why did you choose Blackstar as your target, BTD?

[The_Jester]

Does anybody here have a meta read on Ari? Cause I'm having a really hard time sorting him out based on his activity (or inactivity).

[The_Jester]

Mkay but on the other hand, SS has pretty much abstained from voting and he was scum. I don't think there's a direct correlation between changing your vote often and being scum.

[The_Jester]

Don't know yet but we can find out if you want

[The_Jester]

Gotta check it.

UNVOTE: for now.

[The_Jester]

I'd rather not lynch Ari today.
That being said, could someone point out the main reasons people are voting Vax? Much obliged

[The_Jester]

@Ari I haven't caught up yet, I'm at work. Will do it tomorrow cause I finally have a day off.
@Aubrey I'm just not convinced he's scum yet and I hate compromise lynches.

[The_Jester]

I don't wanna lynch Ari OR Vax today.

VOTE: Yakko

This is better.

[The_Jester]

The only good thing about my play was I haven't lynched town (and that I read SS properly) but unfortunately that's not enough. Wp scum