Open 656- Tit For Tat - Endgame

[Yuria]

VOTE: eagersnake choo choo

[Yuria]

I'm town

oh oops

VOTE: kop better wagon

[Yuria]

Perseph feels town

The vote on kop is good stuff too

[Yuria]

Its not, its a good wagon though. Do you have a reason why its not?

[Yuria]

What in 5 posts is giving you such a strong scumread?

Its not, its a good wagon though. Do you have a reason why its not?

I don't understand this at all. What makes it a good wagon? I guess I don't understand what makes a good wagon if it's not a strong scumread.

A gut feeling, also there are some awkward things about his intro. Nothing seems to be happening right now so I'd like to get some pressure on someone to change that.

[Yuria]

nah, I really don't like those wagons as much, maybe in a few days I'll warm up to them.

Look, Yuria, you're a double voter lol. How'd you manage that trick?e

No idea what you're talking about

He also missed Fancypants's vote

@mod

you seem more lolzy than last game snake.

[Yuria]

VOTE: Alban

How are you all doing on this morning?

good. is this a serious vote?

[Yuria]

21 specifically. What's your opinion on hark?

[Yuria]

Four votes against me already
No valid explanation behind these votes.
So I am assuming these are all RV (except FancyPants since you are urging others to vote for me).
Not gonna defend self unless at L-1 or someone has a more specific/valid question.

VOTE: alban who's scum then?

[Yuria]

21 specifically. What's your opinion on hark?

I understand some posts can look towny, and give off vibes. But I wouldn't stretch it as far as saying someone is town because there posts seem towny, especially early in the game. I just wanted to see what Hark meant by his statement, and how he perceived his views of what a towny post is.

I haven't encountered Hark a great deal on here, but right now he's in the null pile.

did his answer mean anything to you?

[Yuria]

21 specifically. What's your opinion on hark?

I understand some posts can look towny, and give off vibes. But I wouldn't stretch it as far as saying someone is town because there posts seem towny, especially early in the game. I just wanted to see what Hark meant by his statement, and how he perceived his views of what a towny post is.

I haven't encountered Hark a great deal on here, but right now he's in the null pile.

did his answer mean anything to you?

I can agree with his answer to the question, because tone of posts can give away town impressions.

I wouldn't go as far as saying it that early though, especially during RVS.

I meant in an alignment way. Do you have any reads?

[Yuria]

Damn what happened to.the Kop wagon?

I didnt realize you were so invested in that wagon..

[Yuria]

You are behaving like 1-3 month old infants. Which more than half of you are. Rise above it. Harkonnen and Eagersnake are the worst. Do you have absolutely nothing substantial to contribute? Stop making posts out of smileys and lols and one liners. Others too. Stop being pathetic.

Few points to think:
1. If I am a mafia, who could be my possible partners?
2. Are my purported partners likely to be on my wagon or not? How are they likely to behave?
3. If I am a citizen, why are some players so sure of me being a mafia? Only the mafia knows everyone's identity.
4. Most importantly, in a game where you need 7 to lynch me, 5 of you are currently voting against me. What's the likelihood that half of the players have formed an opinion against a player so quickly? What is the voted player likely to be in the case? Will the consensus happen so quickly if I were mafia?

My guess? At least one mafia is on the wagon.

Ask me relevant questions, and then decide to vote for me based on my answers. Not the other way round. In fact, everyone who has voted for me should

explain their reason to vote for me

. And if your reason is because I said 'RVS', it must be obvious to you that you are grasping at straws. You have a baseless read and zero reason behind that read. At best a circumstantial one. Which doesn't require my response but some introspection on your part about your gameplan.

My reason is not just "you said RVS", there's more to it. You were the second voter; obviously it was RVS. So why the need to specify?

You say I am not a newbie. So then explain this: If saying 'RVS' makes me so obviously suspicious that 5 people will vote for me, why will I say that if I were a mafia, especially given my experience?!

If you interprete 'RVS' as being too careful about how I appear, I can make a counterargument that I didn't think twice before typing 'RVS'. And between the argument and the counterargument, you will have a hard time choosing, if you think rationally.

Players like you, who are obviously paranoid, should be more interested in finding citizens than hunting for mafia, coz there's a fear you may start finding everything suspicious and get fixated early on. If you start looking for citizens, you would realise that citizens say and do things which can't always be explained. And they* couldn't care less.

*Waiting for someone to vote for me coz I used 'they' for citizens, and not 'we' .

Well for one thing you're spending these posts discrediting your wagon instead of defending against it. All of those questions you ask aren't concerned with your own alignment; no one needs to pin your partners to vote you. Plus the very nebulous accusations you make throughout without the guts to start targeting someone is very deflective, Especially at gamma who isn't even voting you anymore.
I asked you a valid question: "Who is scum?". Because so far your contribution to solving this game has been slim, and the hypocrisy of you asking people to contribute more isn't sitting right with me.

[Yuria]

my friend I have been playing mafia way longer than you, I really don't care what you think.

There's no need to defend, but discrediting people is generally what scum do (or people too cocky for their own good). I don't think it's the later in this case.

And no, scummyiness is usually completely individual. Partner connections without flip is unnecessary and usually foolish.

"Things will unravel themselves in time" Nothing will happen unless you make it happen. Scum don't suddenly out themselves randomly. My reasons are clearly outlined in the past post and the one where I voted you; You are doing nothing to hunt. Six pages is clearly enough for a few reads or guesses, but you have none and aren't developing on them. Let me ask: You said someone on your wagon is scum. Who is your guess? You wouldn't say such a thing if you weren't looking at them already. So I wanna know if that accusation is a throwaway to get people off your back or something with *some* basis.

[Yuria]

The discrediting part is something that increased my confidence in my vote, not the initial reason. As I've said before your contribution to figuring out alignments is slim, I would think that asking you to do so in my vote post you would be able to infer that. That's not the point, the point is I still want you to do so. tbf, the posts before that had some semblance of what I want. But the question I asked previously needs to be answered for me before I think about if I want to move my vote elsewhere.

I change my mind as much as I want, so no its not confirmed. My read on kop hasn't disappeared, and eager's current play is a lot different than my previous experience so I'm still debating whether its nai or not.

[Yuria]

you two are of course entitled to ur own wrong opinions lol

i like his tone. also gut.

Rather, I find your stand of standing out at this stage gutsy. ATM, I am townreading you for that.

Another thought: What is the difference between this town read and the votes currently on your wagon?

[Yuria]

VOTE: kop waiting.

Hark, why u scum read me?

[Yuria]

where are all your reads right now? it's hard to tell from your vote history

[Yuria]

Can we lynch cat or are we going to be sitting around here all day with our dick in our hands.

you're not even voting her..

hark and gamma are in my town pile after some rereading. Kop is a lurky scumbutt lets lynch it plz

[Yuria]

atm alban's flip gives most information imo so

VOTE: alban

What info will my flip give you?
Almost everyone has suspected me.
If they haven't already, they will do in next 6 days

ur wagon is p much dead why are you still overreacting

[Yuria]

Not every q/comment is a defense. Some questions are posed to understand a player's thoughtprocess and slot him. Hark is clearly doing a bad job with constant shifting of his votes. He is also doing a bad job with his explanation behind a vote. Worse still, he shifted his vote from me to texcat after questioning.
Try to focus.

"Almost everyone has suspected me.
If they haven't already, they will do in next 6 days" is pretty melodramatic.

Why do you want to vote eager?

[Yuria]

Oh, I see. One of your list of lurkers. Thanks. I'm still hoping that Farside will get caught up soon.

What are you hoping to achieve?

What are your reads up to now?

what are you trying to achieve? I thought you were rather convinced on what we should do.

[Yuria]

First of all, She not He.

Second, you seem to agree with fire about needing a flip because we're getting nowhere. What are those questions going to prove post flip?

[Yuria]

First of all, She not He.

Second, you seem to agree with fire about needing a flip because we're getting nowhere. What are those questions going to prove post flip?

Those questions relate to something we can look at post flip. We can possibly draw up associations, connections, information we can build on etc. We will get information post flip, but I'd like most information gained from a flip that we can get.

If she's town, how much of a connection can you get from someone who knows no one elses alignment?
If she's scum, how can you trust a wifomy list from someone who is getting pl regardless?

And is this a normal thing for you to advocate?

[Yuria]

perhaps. But scum on death row generally make their lists to be analyzed post flip.

I want to hear the answer from kop because that's who's alignment I'm concerned about.

[Yuria]

Yuria: Always discrediting. Playing hardball. And going off on a tangent. But maybe not scummy? Dunno. Could be either.

lol well this is wrong. Or you're using the loosest meanings of words "discredit" and "tangent".

NJAC bus texcat for towncred

I'd vote NJAC.
Last time I played with text he read horribly scummy and was town.
He actually reads better then I remember him, so I'm not sure why he reads scum.

Yeah this is kind of why I've been avoiding him, though I have no strong scum or town gut feel about him.

[Yuria]

I feel like post 400 betrays kops sentiment that texcats flip will bring a lot information, though he admits that he's potentially scummy assuming her town flip. It seems a bit risky as scum, though I imagine he thinks he's less scummy among the ones voting her because he's going through the motions of scumhunting in trying to interact with her.

[Yuria]

I feel like post 400 betrays kops sentiment that texcats flip will bring a lot information, though he admits that he's potentially scummy assuming her town flip. It seems a bit risky as scum, though I imagine he thinks he's less scummy among the ones voting her because he's going through the motions of scumhunting in trying to interact with her.

vote njac bby

mayb around deadline hun. I don't like to compromise

[Yuria]

Im less confident than I want to be, but he is one of my best guesses on whos scum

[Yuria]

Hi I'm here, reading now

[Yuria]

ok that was a lot to take in.

I don't want a perseph lynch, srry hark. That town read I gave her a long time ago I'm still confident in. FA's reasoning could be applied to sgz's replace out too, and I'd rather not read into it as it can be for multiple outside reasons.

I guess Kop isn't an option today huh? he's not even voting after he called everyone on the njac wagon scum, a day before deadline too lol. I'm still pretty confident there.

{Fancy, Hark, Farside, Perseph} aren't going to get a vote from me unless absolutely necessary. Mini neither, she's putting in hella effort, so I guess I was wrong there. I'm gonna reread gamma since I haven't meta'ed him yet, and narrow down my other choices rn.

[Yuria]

I've been through many deadline lynches with some good turn arounds on scum, also I'm stubborn. Waiting two days won't hurt anything, and I'll give you my vote then if I can't find better prospects.

[Yuria]

Gamma I don't wanna lynch. Gamma isn't really hitting the profile I'm expecting from scum him and his reasoning isn't coming across as fake really. Changing his mind is something he could be doing to mimic his towngame but I haven't seen an illogical flow to it.

I actually thought I liked njac but now I don't. His defense posts come across as really patronizing (like stating farside obviously must state the subtleties of the differences in his town and scum meta when he can't asked to do the same). Something about his tone too recently.. like he's overblowing his confidence in some places but not others. I need to read it in context but my town read on him is gone tbh.

Eager....... Eager I don't know if I still want to vote for. He's definitely different than what I'm used to, but I don't know if its contradicting what I think his town play is.

Texcat I am good with lynching. I've only slightly thought she was town but begging FA for a case on her and ignoring it with some aimless question and settling her vote on a vacant player doesn't sit well with me. I've been a bit paranoid about her when I saw her town meta as more aggressive than I see her but now I'm comfortable with her lynch.

Fire bringer/assassin is fine, some of the things he said early on ticked me off but I don't feel like he's being not genuine. The pragmaticness of his recent posts feel townie to me, where it's easy for scum to just outcry how right they are.

Mini I am way too tired to read and dissect her walls but I haven't seen any red flags. maybe tomorrow.

Kop I'll vote for anytime. If I ever got a bit more support there I'd keep pushing it but it's not meant to be I guess.

so anyways reiterating my discontent with tex's recent posts: VOTE: texcat
If I'm going to compromise this is the flip I want.

[Yuria]

A lot of her posts have a very comfortable tone to them for a newer player, along with some honesty about her suspicions (40 is pretty hard to say when your job is to blend in, along with 82 where she isn't too sure how good her suspicion of you and hark). I usually expect a mechanical kind of attack from newer scum or having odd sorts of confidence in their reads because they don't know how to mimic a townie yet.

I wouldn't call it a read set in stone, but this is how I generally understand newer players.

[Yuria]

That's fine, I don't know her alignment so I don't doubt I can be wrong. I wouldn't say that perseph's posts could be described as a straight act of just doubting every suspicion she makes or anything. It feels more loose to me, and not really someone scared of getting criticized. Her comment to farside about how she felt her defense of kop wasn't wrong makes me sure of that.

The one thing I can see with her being scum is that she might have not been too attentive to this game anyways, which would explain the casualness.

Peedit: yeah, I just have a good gut feel about her. Maybe I'll look super in depth later but I don't see a reason to rn.

[Yuria]

we risk shooting a PR if the vigilante shoots Gamma. NJAC is a claimed VT. he is a safe vig kill.

There shouldn't be a safe kill for a vigilante. The vigilante should shoot someone that is universally scum read by everyone, and by himself too. By shooting a claimed VT may be safe, but it doesn't help removing strong scum reads.

This post is so bad, as if njac didnt claim from there being a consensus on his scumminess. Who are these "strong scum reads" you're trying to redirect the vig to?

[Yuria]

we risk shooting a PR if the vigilante shoots Gamma. NJAC is a claimed VT. he is a safe vig kill.

There shouldn't be a safe kill for a vigilante. The vigilante should shoot someone that is universally scum read by everyone, and by himself too. By shooting a claimed VT may be safe, but it doesn't help removing strong scum reads.

This post is so bad, as if njac didnt claim from there being a consensus on his scumminess. Who are these "strong scum reads" you're trying to redirect the vig to?

What are you talking about from there being a consensus on his scumminess? The fact that his wagon drove quickly, then claiming a VT, I'm claiming that he shouldn't be a safe vig kill because he claimed VT.

Right now, you have a wagon on Flubber, texcat, whilst others are suspecting farside and gamma. I'm not redirecting anything, I'm basically stating that the vig shouldn't have to shoot a claimed VT simply because it's seemingly a safe shot. The vig should shoot who they believes is scum, or who is under direct suspicion.

You were suggesting him being vigged was unwise because he isnt a strong scum read. I think thats simply untrue. No one im pretty sure is hard townreading him and still a possible lynch today.

[Yuria]

I suspect njac too btw.

I would like flubber to post at least something before we lynch, kinda worries me we havent heard from him yet

[Yuria]

Meh.. Im not so sure eager is town anymore...

vote: Njac

please explain you case on farside again.

[Yuria]

I am going to have to over read things. My reads are just totally wrong.

V/LA till Sunday 6th November. I will try to get on when I can

Noted.

How so? What did these flips prove differently to you?

[Yuria]

vote: Njac

please explain you case on farside again.

To summarize my case on farside:

1) Sgz's posts are the kind of posts I've seen from newb scum. His jump on alban's wagon in his first post is especially bad, like a newb scum opportunistically jumping on a forming wagon. This is mainly gut, so I admit not being a strong point of my case.

2) Meta reasons involving farside's post style matching that of a game in which I played with her and she was scum.

3) Her opportunistic jump on my wagon, while throwing shade on Gamma at the same time.

4) Add to the above Mini's 538, 539, 542 and 544.

Farside is scum my friends.

Explain as in idgi. What is an "opportunistic jump" and why is it scummy.
And the meta thing is questionable at best when i checked. Are you going to explain it further?

[Yuria]

Explain as in idgi. What is an "opportunistic jump" and why is it scummy.
And the meta thing is questionable at best when i checked. Are you going to explain it further?

I'm not going to explain it further, I've already elaborated enough. Please read my posts. If you want more from me then at least answer my question:

@Yuria:

What's your case on me?

You really haven't, and that's why I'm voting you. I explained how I felt about you yesterday actually, so try reading my posts.

I actually thought I liked njac but now I don't. His defense posts come across as really patronizing (like stating farside obviously must state the subtleties of the differences in his town and scum meta when he can't asked to do the same). Something about his tone too recently.. like he's overblowing his confidence in some places but not others. I need to read it in context but my town read on him is gone tbh.