Open 654 | Surrealism - Game over

[Mimikyu]

I agree Aubrey's entry felt awkward but I'm chalking it up to new-player weirdness.

VOTE: The_Jester
I like Skold's reasoning for this.

What could you have liked about that reasoning?

VOTE: Umlaut

Wow, a lot more activity has occurred right out the gate than I was expecting in comparison to my previous game. Any who, usually the day starts out with RVP and just getting feelers for people in general, so It'll be more interesting once everyone has confirmed.

Who talks like this? We all now how RVS works so there's literally no point to this post at all. It's just fluff designed to look positive.

Impeccable reasoning Blackstar. I'll sheep that hard.
VOTE: umlaut
Heads up I don't scumhunt because it's stupid and leads to basically random lynches. I'm warming to town read into PoE but that could be a symptom of positivity bias that suggests because when I town read someone I am statistically likely to be right, I end up believing my townreads are accurate.

So basically your goal is to just locate townies, and by process of elimination locate the mafia/werewolves? Why not just do both (Scumhunt and Friendhunt)? In a game like this, one needs to do both in order to be successful to me. At least that how I go about it. To just locate townies (without considering the scum motivations) seems like an excuse in order to avoid certain conversations.

And then you try again to look overly townie with that "one needs to do this in order to be successful" part. There's more than one way to play Mafia and it's weird that you're trying to doubt cast someone just because they do things differently from you

Going after the low-hanging fruit much? Anything to add that isn't just an elaborate parrot?

Okay, I believe it's time to start RQS. I'll be taking three suggested questions this time, so think of something that could help advance the game.
1: What is your preferred faction: Town or Mafia?
2: What role interests you the most? Does not have to be in this setup.
3: What do you think the differing factions will do to town's chances?
4: REQUEST SLOT
5: REQUEST SLOT

1. Mafia. Way more fun and you essentially control your own destiny,
2. Cop. So powerful, but very difficult to play correctly.
3. Depends on how town handles it.

Overall:
I like Ari and Gamma. Don't like Skold, BlackStar, or Umlaut.

[Mimikyu]

@mimikyu How is he low hanging fruit if I'm the only one going after him? And I didn't parrot anyone so your post made no sense

You mentioned initially that his post felt off.

A couple others commented on it/voted him, but ultimately it's written off as being new. He then explicitly states he is new. Your post then comments on things completely ignoring the fact that he

just

stated he was new, which was also clear just from the post. You can ignore the parrot thing since reading through I felt others made stronger comments re: Aubrey, but the low-hanging fruit comment remains. Town tend to take everything into account. You are ignoring things and steamrolling ahead.

[Mimikyu]

About scum hunting: one thing we need to consider is team hunting. With two teams, I feel this is very important.

Definitely.

[Mimikyu]

I'm seeing a lot of slanted eyes looking at Backstar due to his quick assessment of me. Even though he hasn't exactly snuggled up into a warm place in my heart, I don't think his actions are horribly scummy yet. He has opened up dialog between me and other players which leaves him more as null with possible town lean for me right now. Granted in a game like this I'd assume every alignment would benefit by opening up dialog amongst players. Other than that, the only scum motivation I can fathom would be trying to take attention off of Skold, which i don't think is likely as early as it is.

Who is giving slanted eyes at Blackstar? He's had more than one person now mention they felt the same, but didn't really feel it was scummy necessarily.

I don't really like these questions by Gamma. They don't seem to do much to progress the game forward, and allows people the ability to post and look busy. The only question that holds much merit to the game for people to answer is the third one. Aristophanes thoughts on the matter seem to align with mine.

The point is it gets people to talk. You can't figure out who is who if we don't have anything to work with. This adds extra posts by everyone. Perfectly fine by me.

@Mimikyu I'm not

exactly

new to mafia. I'm new to mafiascum.net however. I've played up to 5 thread games similar to this, and have done quick chat mafia games. 4 of those games, and all the chat games were played on a different site. My first game here, I played mafia and won.

Ok but your first two posts do reek of newbie, and I'm not saying that as an insult; they just do. So whether you're just new to MS, or new in general, those posts were newbie-tells.

Blackstar, you can proceed. This last post was even weirder.

[Mimikyu]

@Mimikyu

1- a number of players have said that they don't like him so far. Even you. Those are the slanted eyes.

2- I don't see how stating if you like playing mafia or town or stating your favorite role being worth anything in this game. It's pointless info. As I said, the only question worth answering is number 3. This was not me saying that I suspect him of bad intentions.

3- None taken.

1. You said he was getting slanted eyes due to his quick assessment of you, and AFAIK I am the only one who did so for that reason.

2. The point is it gets people talking. Talking about anything is better than talking about nothing. Someone says their favorite is mafia, they are more likely to become disengaged as town.

[Mimikyu]

@Blackstar

What do you make of Aubrey refusing the "not scum because newbie" read I gave her?

On a scale of "more likely than random to be evil" to "SCUM SCUM LYNCH LYNCH" how strongly are you actually scumreading Aubrey? Because I could see an early vote based on the former but you're arguing as if it's the latter.

That first point: anyone who says "don't trust me even though I'm town telling" is either ballsy scum or town.

Except it's not actually ballsy because everyone reads that kind of thing as super town. You kind of have to.

[Mimikyu]

I think this is a towntell (scum is happy to accept a townread for whatever reason it's given)

Eh, I would argue that a player almost always gains MORE towncred by criticizing someone's townread of them. You can accept the single townread or you can critique it and receive multiple others.

I am now less convinced of Aubrey being town. Feels more like tryhard scum at this point.

[Mimikyu]

A towntell doesn't become a scumtell just because it can be faked, it becomes a weaker towntell or at worst null.

Granted that scum can criticize townreads on them as well (I just saw this in Micro 635 in fact). It's still

more likely

to come from town.

Well it's not that it's a towntell becoming a scumtell. It's just a faux-towntell in the first place. I disagree that it's more likely to come from town. Town like being townread too.

[Mimikyu]

Well, you're wrong in this case but I'm not going to keep arguing the point.

Incidentally, RQS is garbage and I'm not going to humor it. The effect of giving everyone a survey to answer is that it saves everyone from having to find their own way to break the ice. Manner of entrance is the best/only way to form reads in the very early game, and having everyone enter in the same manner spoils that.

Well you can't argue it because you don't have evidence. Simple enough. No one should be giving any credit either way for interactions like that. That's a terrible way to find town or scum.

[Mimikyu]

I would argue that a player almost always gains MORE towncred by criticizing someone's townread of them. You can accept the single townread or you can critique it and receive multiple others.

This is just ugly WIFOM territory. I've taken Aubrey's response as genuine town and his latest posts have erased the bad initial impression in my eyes.

Except that it's a strictly better play to critique a person townreading you. It both casts doubt on the other person to the town as well as makes you look like you aren't interested in getting townread.

[Mimikyu]

This isn't some corner-case play. It's the clear best play at this point in the game, and it isn't rocket science figuring out that it is.

[Mimikyu]

Mimikyu, I want to drop the point because it's not worth arguing about unless Aubrey is a serious suspect and will only distract from actual scumhunting, not because I don't have a case to make.

Trying to paint my willingness to drop the point as surrender looks bad for you, as does trying to force a scumread on Aubrey even while you take Blackstar to task for doing the same.

I'm not trying to paint it as surrender, but pointing out it would have been futile if you didn't. And I'm not particularly concerned with how you think something looks for me, especially since I don't think you're town.

Regarding your last point, it's almost as if reads can change as we hear more and get more information.

[Mimikyu]

This isn't some corner-case play. It's the clear best play at this point in the game, and it isn't rocket science figuring out that it is.

Even so, I don't get that fake, elaborate feeling from his response. It looks natural.

Well and if we want to call it a gutread that's fine, but let's not pretend it's based on some objective truth. That's where we get into trouble.

[Mimikyu]

VOTE: Mimikyu

I just don't see what could have happened within Aubrey's few posts on page 4 to change Mimikyu's read like that, yet Mimikyu says it's because he "hear[d] more and [got] more information." Aubrey's 91 in particular struck me as towny if anything. He is being quite transparent in his reasoning process and explaining himself clearly. I wish he didn't have quite so many null-reads but it looks as if he is at least trying to sort them.

It doesn't take much to change a read early in the game. Aubrey had two large posts on page 4 that both pinged me a bit for different reasons.

The interaction of 80, 84, 85 pings me as well.

• Mimikyu seems to misunderstand what Aubrey means by "slanted eyes" and talks as if it means people are sheeping Blackstar
  This is not what happened at all. He seemed to lump other people in with me as if they were all suspicious of Blackstar for his suspicion of Aubrey, when in actuality I was the only one that expressed this particular sentiment. I'm not sure what you even think I could have meant. In no world did I think people were sheeping BlackStar.
  
• Aubrey explains what he means
  
• Mimikyu responds: "You said he was getting slanted eyes due to his quick assessment of you, and AFAIK I am the only one who did so for that reason," as if that's what he meant all along, when he clearly didn't.

This is not what happened at all. He seemed to lump other people in with me as if they were all suspicious of Blackstar for his suspicion of Aubrey, when in actuality I was the only one that expressed this particular sentiment. I'm not sure what you even think I could have meant. In no world did I think people were sheeping BlackStar nor does my comment state that. I even said that the people didn't feel it was scummy like Blackstar did. Clearly not sheeping.

This reads to me as a scum attempt to appear consistent.

Am I trying to appear consistent? I thought I was explicitly wavering and changing my reads.

[Mimikyu]

It doesn't take much to change a read early in the game. Aubrey had two large posts on page 4 that both pinged me a bit for different reasons

Can you share those reasons?

I already pointed out some of these things, but the generalizing slanted eyes comment, disliking the Gamma questions, the awkward explanation on his "newness", several "obv" statements for towncred ("Just because someone likes to play scum doesn't mean that they are immediately going to be more likely to become a disengaged townie.").

[Mimikyu]

This is not what happened at all. He seemed to lump other people in with me as if they were all suspicious of Blackstar for his suspicion of Aubrey, when in actuality I was the only one that expressed this particular sentiment. I'm not sure what you even think I could have meant. In no world did I think people were sheeping BlackStar nor does my comment state that. I even said that the people didn't feel it was scummy like Blackstar did. Clearly not sheeping.

I wasn't saying you thought people were sheeping Blackstar, I was saying you argued with Aubrey as if you thought he said people were agreeing with Blackstar (by pointing out that they weren't).

Oh I mean I definitely didn't think that. He seemed to imply people were suspicious of Blackstar, I commented that people actually agreed with his feeling that Aubrey was awkward, but disagreed with the suspicion. This stance feels far from suspicion to me.

[Mimikyu]

Keep in mind ping =/= inherently scummy action. It has a lot to do with gut and encouraging others to review and see if they feel the same. I have a feeling it's going to be trouble getting the town to lynch someone like you, since people are often intimidated by those who put a lot of time into their posts. Thankfully the town isn't required for you to die in this setup.

As for why I think Umlaut isn't town, I think you can read my posts and figure out exactly how I feel. Holding your hand won't be necessary.

[Mimikyu]

Okay, Skold submitted a good question. The revised list is:
1: What is your preferred faction: Town or Mafia?
2: What role interests you the most? Does not have to be in this setup.
3: What do you think the differing factions will do to town's chances?
4: What role do you not like?
5: What strategies do you feel are way too common?
I've already answered all but 5. I believe that busing has grown way out of hand. In my first game of forum mafia ever, my scumteam bussed when there was the ability to force no-lynch by lack of majority.

4. Don't like when scum have daytalk. I come from IRL Werewolf where that's not a thing and I feel like it's overpowered with decent scumteams.
5. I've had people fakeclaim as town in like 9 of my last 10 games it feels like. Just stop doing this. It is awful 99% of the time and those 9 games were no exception.

[Mimikyu]

2. The point is it gets people talking. Talking about anything is better than talking about nothing. Someone says their favorite is mafia, they are more likely to become disengaged as town.

Here's where you're wrong. Noise is noise.

I don't agree. Many of the games I've lost as town involved lurkers being allowed to lurk before we finally lynched them and they were town. These questions can at least get people talking that otherwise might be less involved. Gives us something to engage them on.

Let's go Bayesian with this.

If you took every scenario where you held a read as strong as your current read on Aubrey, what percent of the time do you expect that person would actually flip scum?

(I wouldn't call a read 10/10 unless that number were damn close to 100%.)

This conversation is dumb as hell. It's just a slight scum lean and you all keep blowing this out of proportion. I don't know why you're all up in arms about a scum lean. Jesus Christ...

Agree. That line of questioning is trash. Strength of scumread vs. chance of being scum is not some graph you can chart on. Especially this early on, it's mostly gut and we're arguing semantics.

[Mimikyu]

I think the issue is anyone thinking that

anyone

could have a strong scumread on page 8 of the game.

[Mimikyu]

I think the issue is anyone thinking that

anyone

could have a strong scumread on page 8 of the game.

When is it appropriate to have a strong scumread then?

Certainly there's no hard rule, but I think you're simply playing dumb if you think page 8 is enough. It's odd how several of you seem to be feigning ignorance on Blackstar's level of suspicion. This is a silly (and annoying) way to scumhunt.

[Mimikyu]

^

I don't think factors like the number of pages should be taken as a constant since the content included in them is different each time.

I would argue no one has what should be considered a strong scumread day one in general unless someone does something extremely blatant to out themselves.

[Mimikyu]

^

I don't think factors like the number of pages should be taken as a constant since the content included in them is different each time.

I would argue no one has what should be considered a strong scumread day one in general unless someone does something extremely blatant to out themselves.

so how hard of a scum read did you have on Ümläüt? You had a very sturdy response when you told him that you didn't think he was town.

@Jester, I'm seeing a lot of what I call wingman'n. Your not exactly parroting, but it seems as if you're just riding off of what everyone else is writing in regards to the argument at hand. Should anything go sour and someone have to take blame for something, you wouldn't be the first head in the guillotine. It's a good position for a mafia to take instead of leading the assault. It makes me feel uncomfortable about you right now.

Well admittedly some of that is posturing. You don't get good reactions out of people by acting fair and balanced in your read when talking with them.

[Mimikyu]

On a side note, your post seems like something scum would say to stay relevant and appear active. Mainly because you took an irrelevant topic atm (lurking) and presented a twisted interpretation (I don't think anybody has stated fear for lurkers being scum, if anything Mimikyu said that he's afraid of letting lurkers lurk cause they usually turn out to be

town

in #174).

Just to confirm, Jester is correct in that this is what I was saying. Lurkers are often town, but we end up lynching them because when you run out of ideas you lynch the people that have been suspiciously quiet.

[Mimikyu]

I know I'm one to talk but wow you guys have effectively done nothing

It seems you have picked up on this, but yes you don't have much of a right to say that. You had an opportunity to do something when you came in and instead sheeped Gamma.

Still dislike Umlaut; he's scum. Don't like Aubrey, but coming around to him as potentially town that just annoys me. On board with others on Zach being possible scum. He can have time to shape up though. Don't care for MeowMix's re-entrance. Comes in like he's doing something, but just starts a new wagon on someone with no real suspicion. Makes no effort to comment on anything else that has happened.

[Mimikyu]

You do realize you saying I'm only taking potshots at you and then directly after that telling me to state facts is hypocritcal because I have been doing other shit? My ISO is not soley composed of attacks on you by any stretch of the imagination. And you'd be mistaken if you think I'd do nothing but address you as we move on, like I enjoy doing shit for no reason.

FYI your abrasive brand is bad for town if you are a townie.

[Mimikyu]

Still dislike Umlaut; he's scum.

Page 8 is way too soon to have a strong scumread, but page 10 is just right.

Who spoke of strength?

Don't care for MeowMix's re-entrance. Comes in like he's doing something, but just starts a new wagon on someone with no real suspicion. Makes no effort to comment on anything else that has happened.

MeowMix's entrance didn't exactly give me a warm feeling but it did give me a new perspective on Gamma, which qualifies as "doing something." Re. "no effort to comment on anything else," do you actually believe this is a scumtell?

For MeowMix it doesn't feel good. It feels like someone entering the game, pretending to be an active participant, but avoiding getting involved with anything with any real weight.

[Mimikyu]

Who spoke of strength?

You said flatly "He's scum." That means you think I'm probably scum, though you seem pretty uninterested in making this case. See 120 where you're just like "read my other posts" when Aubrey asks you to explain your read.

It's still early. I still think strong words are better for reactions than sitting closer to the fence.

For MeowMix it doesn't feel good. It feels like someone entering the game, pretending to be an active participant, but avoiding getting involved with anything with any real weight.

For MeowMix

it doesn't feel good? But, what, for someone else it might?

In general, do you find effort to be alignment-indicative? Because I don't.

No of course not, but this has little to do with effort. It has to do with the illusion of effort.

What would you rather them talk about if you have agreed with Dunnstral in the fact that previous talks have been a big fat nothing? I see nothing wrong with them trying to progress the game further with a new take on something. The only thing I think they could go into more detail on is who they think maybe townies up until this point.

What is their new take?

[Mimikyu]

VOTE: Mimikyu

This is a good vote for two reasons.

First, he's scummy. His stated positions are all over the place. He makes me his top scumread based apparently on one vote on Jester (this is the only reason he's giving, and when asked to explain his read he says "look at my posts"). He thinks that Aubrey is scummy, Blackstar is scummy for scumreading Aubrey, that anyone attacking Blackstar is scummy. He's eager to argue about minutiae (refused to let me drop the topic of "is rejecting townreads a towntell") but reluctant to sell his actual reads.

I'm concerned you don't know what it looks like when someone thinks another is scum.

[Mimikyu]

@Mimikyu: Nobody up until now has said much about Gamma that I recall. This to me is a new take on things, cause they could just have parroted something that has already occurred. If you are unsatisfied with Meowmix's lack of responding to current events, then maybe it wouldn't be such a bad idea poke and prod them.

@Ümläüt: There really isn't a need to be abrasive in this game. However, @Blackstar even you've been abrasive when you say a post is stupid and what not.

Sorry I actually misread that first part as talking about Dunnstral before. MeowMix may have had a new take, but it was one that was sure to go nowhere I think. No one else had expressed interest in anything close to a Gamma vote. Just felt like adding to something knowing that it would likely be brushed off.

[Mimikyu]

I'm concerned you don't know what it looks like when someone thinks another is scum.

I read this like 50 times and I have no idea what you're getting at.

He makes me his top scumread based apparently on one vote on Jester (this is the only reason he's giving, and when asked to explain his read he says "look at my posts"). He thinks that Aubrey is scummy, Blackstar is scummy for scumreading Aubrey, that anyone attacking Blackstar is scummy.

According to this I think everyone is scum which is a terrible misrep.

[Mimikyu]

Please remove the statements you don't believe:

• Aubrey is scummy
  
• BlackStar is scummy

Everyone who has attacked BlackStar is scummy

[Mimikyu]

Even the Aubrey one I have come around on.

[Mimikyu]

What is the basis for your read on me. You're not accomplishing anything except being vague. And doubtcasting meowmix, and taking no real stance on mostly everything else save for Umlaut.

For me it has a good bit to do with gut. Usually when people have your kind of abrasive style, I've seen certain things accompany it as each alignment. As town, it's likely due to being overconfident, but I don't actually feel that controlling confidence from you. It feels abrasive to no real end.

Why do my actions have to be catered to you?

Not about catering to me. It's about not being a jerk. Not being a jerk helps other people feel more open to talking and discussing, which is good for town. Silence for is not.

Sorry I actually misread that first part as talking about Dunnstral before. MeowMix may have had a new take, but it was one that was sure to go nowhere I think. No one else had expressed interest in anything close to a Gamma vote. Just felt like adding to something knowing that it would likely be brushed off.

You heard it here, folks. After 72 hours it's too late to bring in a new read.

Clearly this is not how I feel. But MeowMix didn't bring anything truly new or interesting to the table. Rehashed some old ideas, called it a scum read.

[Mimikyu]

Out of those who have attacked BlackStar who are you not scumreading?

I'll tell you who I am scumreading and you can decide from there. You, Zach, MeowMix. Others that have slight scumreads have more to do with them not saying much, but I'd rather not highlight them for that since I'm likely just falling into a trap there.

[Mimikyu]

However, I do see their point regarding how it could be viewed as fluff in order for one to seem active without putting ones neck on the line. That being said, if Gamma was truly scum wanting to appear active then I don't know why they wouldn't just tag along the Blackstar assault since it seems like a somewhat easy campaign to latch onto after multiple people were on it. Parrot a little here and a little there and he would have been golden. I also don't know what scum would gain by going to Skold's defense earlier in the game unless they were scum buddies. I remain null with Gamma with maybe a slight town lean for the Skold reasoning.

I wrote this in response to Meowmix's prodding of Gamma. Did you have anything thoughts on what I wrote in regards to Gamma? Where do you stand with Gamma in general?

I agree with that line. To clarify, by rehashed old ideas, I mean the idea that some people took issue with Gamma's asking of questions, not necessarily that Gamma was widely scumread.

[Mimikyu]

hey mimikoo I'm sorry that I decided to add a new read to the game, next time I will be sure to just sheep whoever writes the longest tldrs

If you're town, then I'm sorry you feel that way and hope you won't be discouraged from adding your genuine feelings to the game. But I call it like I see it.

[Mimikyu]

Having a take that goes nowhere is not a bad thing at all.

You should take this point up with Mimikyu, who is happy to hand out a scumread based on it.

Mafia 101: We are not looking for scummy actions. We are looking for scummy

intentions

.

The action combined with the context of this game, the timing, his post history, and my gut lead me to believe that the action was done with scummy intentions. It is not just about an action. No action is scummy in a vacuum.

[Mimikyu]

I "sheeped gamma" ?

I don't remember ever doing that

Well I didn't give much credit to your early vote on Zach, but honestly looking back it feels less like a sheep and more of an expansion of your early gut read.

[Mimikyu]

I don't even know what I was thinking when I wrote that O.o
I guess I thought one of them voted the other for some reason...

I voiced my suspicion of him but he didn't really say anything about me. FWIW my vote would be there if Umlaut wasn't the stronger read.

FWIW also like SS's entrance, although admittedly it may have something to do with the opposing reads of Umlaut who I think is scum. Only played a couple games with more than one scum faction so still figuring out how to work with that.

[Mimikyu]

I don't even know what I was thinking when I wrote that O.o
I guess I thought one of them voted the other for some reason...

I voiced my suspicion of him but he didn't really say anything about me. FWIW my vote would be there if Umlaut wasn't the stronger read.

FWIW also like SS's entrance, although admittedly it may have something to do with the opposing reads of Umlaut who I think is scum. Only played a couple games with more than one scum faction so still figuring out how to work with that.

Yeah, you did push him, but it wasn't the "one of them is probably scum" interaction that I somehow thought it was.

Oh, I forgot, I was also going to ask about the second line: does that mean you agree with my reads?

For the most part. Can't say I feel as strongly about Jester and I'm still torn on Ari since he's been absent.

[Mimikyu]

@Mod: V/LA until Monday morning CST.

[Mimikyu]

Work is busy, so not much time to look over things. Looked quick at the recent stuff and I'll just say I don't have BTD's stuff as much as others seem to.

[Mimikyu]

Great now someone else is being passive aggressive. To be fair, MeowMix did add to that read.

Great job guys. I tried to be active in the discussion, and this is what happens. I guess I'll just copy my EpicMafia habits and lurk all the time. Thanks for teaching me this valuable lesson.

These two posts are an interesting combination.

Don't really care for Ari's catch-up post. While I don't generally put much into meta, his play altogether feels quite a bit different than the games I've played with him where he was town. This is more just to explain I've got a bit of a gut scumread on him based on that. And somehow we are almost 10 days in and he still hasn't placed an RVS vote.

That's it for now. Sorry I still don't have much time to devote to this right now.

[Mimikyu]

I mean, I know my presence is unusually low, but u swear it is due to IRL circumstances.

Mimikyu, when did we play before? I am drawing a blank.

Let's say we played before in a past life. FWIW I don't put much stock at all in meta, but it felt like it was worth mentioning.

[Mimikyu]

Sorry guys haven't had a chance to catch up since I last posted and been sick as a dog the last couple days. Likely out of commission until Monday.

@Mod: V/LA until Monday morning CST.

[Mimikyu]

@Gamma
I feel you are reading the game oddly.

Like scum?

Mimikyu

: Has been doing some

very

intense scumhunting, I feel.

I feel like even Mimikyu will deny this one

You are correct that I would.

It seems a lot of the issues with Gamma come down to awkwardness, which isn't inherently scummy. I think many seem to be voting him because they disagree with his conclusions, which isn't really what makes someone scummy. I don't actually think he is scum and would be surprised at a red-flip here.

That being said, it's obviously too late for anything else at this point and am willing to hammer before I leave today (in a couple hours) if I need to.

[Mimikyu]

Didn't I get to L-1 with both scum factions voting em too?

Guess what I'm town

Gamma is dumb for self voting, I had no clue BTD6 hsd fake hammered and myself assumed he was hammered and town, I'd have switched to trying to get S_S lynched

I agree with this.

Actually I have a question: Do you guys think scum would try to specifically figure out who's scum on the other faction and try to kill them?

Isn't it better for them to lynch the other scum team and nk town?

Not really. It's in their best interest to try to lynch the other scum team as well as NK the other scum team.

It would especially make sense to NK someone they thought was scum, but didn't appear to be gaining any traction as a wagon in the near future.

He votes both Umlaut and S_S but doesn't really "push" either of them, instead opting to go after BTD6 and Gamma. At least that's how I see it, he doesn't push me and kind of defends me. I can kind of see BlackStar as being on either team and want to hear his thoughts now

Hopefully you realize this entire thing proves it's NAI.

Don't have a ton of time today and this may be obvious, but I think it makes the most sense to look at whose interactions with the two looked the most forced. No reason to not look for lynches based on association at this point.

[Mimikyu]

Shoot I missed reading two pages. BRB.

[Mimikyu]

Didn't miss a ton in those pages actually.

Well here's what I think: Mimikyu is solid town. Seriously like 80% of his iso is talking to Umlaut, or about him, but actually looking through the content it looks like they're not together on the same team and instead Mimikyu is scumreading Umlaut

Now after looking over that, think: Would Mimikyu, as a werewolf, have motivation to kill Umlaut? I really think he wouldn't have made that kill as scum

I'll be honest if I were a werewolf I may not have NK'd Umlaut just because I felt he was scummy enough that he would likely get lynched. But I do think it's possible someone else that was less confident in their ability to convince people would do so.

Also I think the Vaxkiller case on BTD isn't bad at all.

[Mimikyu]

"i'll be honest" so you're saying at one point in the game you were lying?

[Mimikyu]

"i'll be honest" so you're saying at one point in the game you were lying?

why didn't you vote skold? if the reasoning was flawed? in post 73? You mentioned skold at the end of the post, but why jester the person who wagoned the reasoning instead of the person who made such reasoning?

Flawed logic only makes someone scum if all townies produce cases that are perfectly logically sound, which we know is not true. On the other hand, I expect town to call out others on their bad logic, since it's much easier to spot from an outside perspective.

[Mimikyu]

"i'll be honest" so you're saying at one point in the game you were lying?

why didn't you vote skold? if the reasoning was flawed? in post 73? You mentioned skold at the end of the post, but why jester the person who wagoned the reasoning instead of the person who made such reasoning?

Flawed logic only makes someone scum if all townies produce cases that are perfectly logically sound, which we know is not true. On the other hand, I expect town to call out others on their bad logic, since it's much easier to spot from an outside perspective.

that answered nothing. but it sounds good. If the logic was flawed why didn't you say so? you didn't call skold out on his logic you bypassed skold and moved to jester.

let me ask something else before we get into it. at that point in the game did you think jester or skold scum?

It was my first post, and the more profitable endeavor for me (which I'd hoped you would ascertain) was to call out the person buying into the bad reasoning and not the person with the bad reasoning, for the reasons I mentioned in my previous posts.

It was post 73, so didn't have strong reads in general, but 1) I didn't move to jester (not sure what you're talking about here), and 2) I did feel bad about skold but Umalut was the focus that made more sense.

You're wasting everyone's time here because you don't appear to be reading the subtext nor or even really the normal text.

[Mimikyu]

Unfortunately Yakko doesn't actually feel like scum to me right now. I don't see scum making this outlandish of a push. Brings unnecessary heat.

[Mimikyu]

Unfortunately Yakko doesn't actually feel like scum to me right now. I don't see scum making this outlandish of a push. Brings unnecessary heat.

Judging by the fact that no one besides me is trying to lynch him, I'd say there is no heat.

But that's only because cooler heads prevailed, which is not always the case. I just don't see that push coming from scum.

You're #2, by the way.

I'm not too worried about that.

[Mimikyu]

@Mod: V/LA until Monday morning PST.

[Mimikyu]

This game is starting to feel a bit dead. Maybe it's just today. I for one am not exactly bothered by Zach's push against Mimiyku. I don't know how likely he is to be scum, but I'd like to hear more out of him. Umlaut seemed determined to get a bandwagon going against 'em if memory serves correctly. I question the likelihood of them being a team due to that. Then again he white knighted my ass like crazy, so maybe he'd "black knight" his scum member. Granted that last line probably doesn't mean as much to you all as it does me.

I'm actually not really bothered by it either. Doesn't necessarily feel like scum, especially with how hard he's sticking to it despite zero traction.

I really do hate to use meta, but Ari's play this game feels [/i]really[/i] different from past games. Usually he is pretty involved and actually asking questions, forming cases. Feels like he's active lurking this game. Prove me wrong Ari.

[Mimikyu]

Do you think you'd be bothered by the feeling of rope near your vocal cord area

I would like to find out

I'm rarely moved by cases on me because I think I play as town in a manner that makes clear my alignment. Nothing to worry about.

Inactivity due to Real Life is anti-Town but it is not lurking and is NAI, not scummy. (It is anti-Town because it hurts Town, but there is not much I could have done about it). People assume that since circumstances out of my control are hurting Town, they must be scummy. There is no correlation between getting assigned a Role PM randomly and having a busy schedule. This is why I view Vaxkiller's push as scummy.

Do you not get that you saying you're busy because of RL doesn't mean anything? Could easily by saying that as scum, either truthfully or not.

Anti-town actions are actions that work against the interest of Town.
Scummy actions are actions more likely to be performed by scum.
That is the difference.

FWIW, I think it's much more in our best interest to search for low-key anti-town actions than "scummy" actions, since what most people view as scummy actions aren't actually AI.

I don't get the case about me being scum with Umlaut on some flimsy interactions that can be explained by my Real Life.

He has to know this is an absurd defense right?

VOTE: BTD6_maker

[Mimikyu]

irregardless

This is not a word.

Please discontinue its usage!

I don't remember you fluffing so much in past games.

[Mimikyu]

UNVOTE:

[Mimikyu]

So there is no counter claim to BTD?

VOTE: Vaxkiller

Happy to sheep here. While Vax has done some amount of work to make the slot look better, MeowMix did look pretty bad at points, especially in his interactions with Umlaut.

VOTE: Vaxkiller

[Mimikyu]

...Your voting Vax because of Meowmix and their interactions with Umlaut? He only had one interaction with the guy.

Not exactly.

44 was an you attempting to explain how another person plays for one reason or another. you did the same thing in 87 and umlaut rightfully called you out on it

umlaut let's be best friends

oh wait he unvoted. but still

@blackstar can you explain more indepth your distrust for users: umlaut, btd?

Yes these posts could imply that Meow thought Umlaut was town, but it's the lack of actual interaction despite mentioning he was town. Why did he feel okay making little comments about why he was town, but didn't feel the need to question me on my scumread of him? I may try to take a better look at Vax's ISO tomorrow, but I'm always wary of replacements anyhow as they tend to always look better than their predecessor.

[Mimikyu]

Happy to sheep here. While Vax has done some amount of work to make the slot look better, MeowMix did look pretty bad at points, especially in his interactions with Umlaut.

So let me get this straight.

Meowmix seemed scummy to you, but I don't. So NOW you are going to vote for me because of what meowmix has said? If that is the case, why didn't you vote a long time ago?

The only thing that has changed since meowmix said those things is I replaced in, and you liked what I had to say, but you vote me and give meowmix quotes for your reasoning?

Your reasoning is highly suspect. I think I would almost rather lynch you at the moment.

Wasn't on my radar at the time. BTD looked most scummy to me today, jumped on that, then he was town, so I look elsewhere. That's how you play the game.

[Mimikyu]

That's how you play the game.

Mind showing me where I vote for someone who I think doing good for town and then for reasons bring up things that have happened really far in the past that they had nothing to do with?

That's not really what's happening, but I understand that you would interpret it that way.

[Mimikyu]

Aristophanes said he'd look at the reasons I'm not scum. He never did. Still calling me scum without a reason, but never pushes me (because nobody is voting me)

Also scum have to claim vt

Let's hammer this

No they don't. Why wouldn't they claim a PR?

[Mimikyu]

No they don't. Why wouldn't they claim a PR?

Because they automatically lose

Yeah I guess so at this point.

Does anybody here have a meta read on Ari? Cause I'm having a really hard time sorting him out based on his activity (or inactivity).

It definitely feels weird and different from the games I've played with him before where he was town, but it's not actually pinging me as much as I feel like it should.

[Mimikyu]

Snake, what do we gain from these numbers?

Well some people feel that wagon-hopping is scummy (I'm not really one of those people).

[Mimikyu]

Mkay but on the other hand, SS has pretty much abstained from voting and he was scum. I don't think there's a direct correlation between changing your vote often and being scum.

Correct.

[Mimikyu]

Well for one I don't see much credibility in the Aristophanes wagon. The people on it are shown to be the biggest wagoners in this game. None of them are confirmed town. 2 of them were involved in the Gamma (T) lynch, and 2 were involved in the BTD6 (T) wagon.

However, the Vaxkiller wagon has 2 people I know are town, one person who was on the Gamma (T) lynch, and one person who was on the BTD6 (T) wagon.

Just saying, Vax wagon has more credibility.

I agree. Also Vax's response to getting wagoned was worse IMO.

[Mimikyu]

Who has Yakko in a TR? Other than Mimiyku due to reasons that I find silly. "Cause scum have never brought up poor reasons to try and start a bandwagon against someone"

I wouldn't say I have Yakko as a TR. Null at best.

I want to add that I agree with Ari on parts of Vax's ISO feeling disingenuous.

[Mimikyu]

@Mod: V/LA until Monday morning CST.

[Mimikyu]

Not feeling super confident about our chances of hitting scum on this lynch, and unfortunately I'm not sure it's capable of getting much better at this point. That being said, I am still happy enough with a Vax lynch due to the reason I mentioned before. Also wouldn't be entirely opposed to an Ari lynch if it comes down to it, because there have been parts of his play (that I've mentioned) that have pinged me as weirdly different from past games.

[Mimikyu]

I read it as "these could both be town lynches, but we're not active enough to change that, so here's my stance on the two wagons."

Ding ding.

[Mimikyu]

Mimi, you mind answering Aubreys 1452?

Umlauts and Somethings interactions with my slot were complete opposites.

This is not surprising as these slots were different alignments.

Would scum really stick their head out this far in defense of one of their own? Or is it more likely they chose to "town read" meowmix as lynch bait to appear more town?

To top it off when I replaced in not a word was said about me or to me. This part confuses me. Why did he stop town reading the slot? The only thing I can think of is he thought there was too much suspicion on the meowmix interactions and it might be best to drop it for his sake because it was drawing too much attention.

Notably in several of those cases it is combined with a read/comment on someone else at the same time, which is kind of textbook defending a partner. In terms of why nothing was said about or to you, most people in general stopped talking to you. If he was defending you before, why would he need to now that no one was saying anything?

[Mimikyu]

With Ari being Mafia killing me is a gamble. If successful, Town won't get any info on who is Mafia and the Tracker is dead. A No Kill gambit is possible here but having me dead is better for Mafia than not killing. It's riskier to kill, though, because if the Doc protects me (if a Doc exists) I will be able to speak.

I'm not suggesting we claim now but if in the future a BP is found, Aristo looks much, much worse.

PEdit: I'm a Tracker. I can't see Wolf kills.

Agree with this and I think if we have a BP Ari is 100% mafia, although it does seem most likely that someone did try to kill you and you were protected. IMO there is no reason for anyone to be voting for Ari until we get a BP flip.

Do you not consider a 100% read townie a threat to scum irregardless of who he can see at night?

Yes, but with a probable doctor, there's no reason to risk missing a kill when he was the definite protect target last night.

I actually think Im wrong here...Ari forgot that BTD could only see Mafia. That means he would either not move at all or Kill BTD. Mafia defiantly would not want someone who can see them at night alive, so it makes sense for them to target BTD. Based not this only BTD would have been targeted, However Jester was killed. I think Dunn has a point here.

UNVOTE: Ari

If you think Ari is scum for other reasons, why is he not capable of feigning forgetfulness?

Not a fan of Aubrey, although admittedly could just be overeager town. Seems like a good place to be right now though.

VOTE: Aubrey

[Mimikyu]

UNVOTE:

I definitely did not realize that was L1.

[Mimikyu]

Nevermind that was NOT L1...

[Mimikyu]

You're right my bad I looked at the previous day majority number in the post above it

Well if we're being honest it was likely moving that way anyway so good we got that out of the way early in the day so we can move on to other stuff.

[Mimikyu]

Well if we're being honest it was likely moving that way anyway so good we got that out of the way early in the day so we can move on to other stuff.

because of the glorious VCA! If you all would have looked at my interactions and reasons for voting, then there might have been a chance that I could have skidded by today and been able to protect BTD for another night. Doesn't matter now. The lot of you happy followed along and got me throw my cards on the table.

You said Ari could be faking his ignorance. Maybe. However, for a split minute there even I forgot that I can only protect against mafia and BTD could only see mafia at night. I think it is possible he really did forget. I also think it more likely for scum to either try and bring forward reasoning for believing them to be town, or try and bring forward reasons to scum read other people.

My vote for you was not because of the VCA. You've clearly been all over the place and the VCA just supported that as well.

And wait how does your conclusion = town!Ari? If Ari forgot and stood still because he thought he could be detected, how is he not just the wolf then in your eyes? Because you think mafia would have killed BTD? They would have figured he was being protected (very likely).

[Mimikyu]

Don't hate that case from Zach re: Yakko, but I'm also extra pulled in because Yakko's play has been bad.

@Mod: Standard V/LA until Monday morning CST.

[Mimikyu]

As a likely scum candidate

It shouldn't change your opinion of me at all. Either you thought my comment about not thinking Gamma was scum but being willing to avoid a NL was legit or you didn't. Whether or not I actually had to follow through with that is wholly irrelevant.

Thinking I want to lynch mimikyu

Eh not happening.

POE is a powerful tool in the town's arsenel.

This is true.

Yakko I just don't think scum would play the way that they're playing and I've been thinking they're town for a while

Can you elaborate on this? What parts of their play do you think scum wouldn't do, and why do you think scum wouldn't do them?

What do you think of this:

I feel like this game is unwinnable somehow for scum/ww It feels to many town sided roles and crossfire. Well if we were good at this game I mean.

VOTE: hi im Yakko

[Mimikyu]

It shouldn't change your opinion of me at all.

Why should you being on the Gamma wagon not change my opinion of you? I'm quite apparently looking for the wolf that was on the wagon, so you being included on that wagon will obviously change my opinion of you.

That should, but whether or not my vote actually made it onto the wagon because of the self-hammer shouldn't. You either believed what I said or didn't.

[Mimikyu]

Well did you intend to vote Gamma or not?

I stated explicitly in 979 that I would if needed.

[Mimikyu]

I'm paranoid about Zach, however that is simply because I see no reason to write him off as not being a potential partner with either of the scum.

I don't think Zach is with s_s/wolf because of the jester kill

You expect him to kill Yakko or Mimikyu after complaining about them through the whole game, and gaining what he feels like no support behind? Cause that doesn't aim a big red bloody arrow right back at him.

Eh NKA is a waste of time. Several times I was scum I have literally done whatever the opposite of the best kill was for me as scum, and I'm certainly not the only one that does that from time to time.

[Mimikyu]

That's purely speculation. 100%

This.

While I understand and appreciate your desire to get people to answer questions, implicating or exonerating people based on how much the NK makes sense for them is not the right play.

[Mimikyu]

You make it sound as if that is the only reason why I'm abstaining from voting him. If you think him guilty of being scum, why not vote him? Why is Yakko scummier for you?

I didn't say I think he's guilty of being scum. Yakko's play has been absolute trash, I see no evidence of genuine scumhunting, and this is fairly in line with the play of his predecessor.

[Mimikyu]

Then why sit there and not support the lynch you want to go though. Your previous post only helps to support the opposing lynch. If you really have beef with Ari save it for tomorrow so we can get past this stalemate, because clearly nobody is going to bring new evidence forward. All this boils down to now is how headstrong the opposing bandwagon is and those who don't wish to support either.

How did it support an opposing lynch? I just said using NKA as reasoning to go either way with him is bad. I'm not going to avoid calling out what I think is bad reasoning based on whether or not it aligns with my personal thoughts on who is town or scum.

[Mimikyu]

VOTE: Mimikyu

If this goes nowhere, will you consider Yakko?

Don't worry it won't go anywhere.

FWIW, I'm not dead set on a Yakko lynch other than I think it's the best of the options we have available. My scumread on him is not as solid as I wish it was, but it's better than our alternative of Ari I think.

[Mimikyu]

Disregard my above post. realized the folly in my logic. I need to stop posting when only being up for 15 minutes.

The folly in your logic? You mean that you're the doctor? You are the doctor right?

[Mimikyu]

Now would you be so kind to hammer or do I have to wait Dunn out?

You'll have to wait Dunn out, unless you want to hammer Yakko instead.

[Mimikyu]

I'd love to hammer. Sadly he is at L2 since I un voted.

Oh my bad. Just looked at last VC.

[Mimikyu]

You've already said you'd be open to voting someone else. Why not?

I would, but that doesn't mean being the hammer on someone I don't particularly think is scum.

[Mimikyu]

There is no difference. If i had not budged on the Yakko wagon, you and Dunn would have dropped your votes and voted for Ari. It's pretty clear. Go ahead and end this day.

That is not true. Only chance I'm going on Ari wagon would be to avoid a NL.

[Mimikyu]

If i had not budged, Dunn would have voted Ari and we would have been in a long ass stale mate of 2 L1's. You would have more than likely been the one to switch gears in the end. Ari isn't going to vote himself, and Zach wont hop off the wagon that he is passionate about. Am I not wrong here? I mean I can hop right back onto Yakko and stall this day out even longer than it has to be just to prove my point.

Yeah no you're actually right.

Do we have a claim from Ari yet?

[Mimikyu]

Before you end this day. One last question. You fought me with my town Ari read, but you don't think him likely scum? Explain.

It's a few things. His play is quite different from when I've played with him before, but in a way that doesn't necessarily ping me. He isn't playing like he's scared. He hasn't said anything that strongly disagrees with my reads.

I think I'll wait and give Ari last words.

[Mimikyu]

I don't have enough conviction on this one to not give him the respect of final words.

[Mimikyu]

I'm not a fucking werewolf!

What else is there to say!?

But whatever. Lynch me of you have to.

Like seriously, what more do you expect from him? At this point I'm beginning to think you're more concerned about seeming as if your worried about lynching a townie.

I mean I thought I already made clear I didn't feel like he was actually scum, so do you think I really have to feign being concerned about him being town beyond that?

But I'll actually just vote him now because I have to go V/LA in a couple hours.

VOTE: Ari

[Mimikyu]

What was the talk of deadline for? There were about 6 days left.

Sure but we hadn't even cleared a page in 3 IRL days. This day was over already unfortunately.

[Mimikyu]

Ok can we get back to Yakko now?

[Mimikyu]

VOTE: Yakko

[Mimikyu]

I can presume Mafia killed Aubrey as I cannot see it being optimal for a wolf to kill Aubrey. Unless we kill Mafia today my death is certain.

What about Werewolves though? If Mafia killed Aubrey then either Werewolves ran a No Kill gambit (with no Stalkers, there is no reason for this) or their kill was protected by a Town Guardian. Hence I can presume a Town Guardian exists.

Yakko went nowhere. I can probably presume he is not Mafia. If he is a wolf he is probably the Roleblocker, in which case I can understand his action as he feared having to claim and being counterclaimed.

This time we want to lynch Mafia. I can probably clear Yakko of this (possibly Eagersnake, though that is less likely). If we do not my death is certain and we are left with just a Guardian.

VOTE: Mimikyu

Given you said this:

If anyone but Yakko is lynched, Yakko is my target

.

Why wouldn't Mafia!Yakko run a No Kill gambit? Just because you think a wolf wouldn't kill Aubrey? Aubrey is still conf-town even he wasn't a PR that affected them. Killing an innocent child is still better than killing a rando.

[Mimikyu]

Not in multiball. Scum want to kill players who aren't confTown for a greater chance of killing a scum.

No. You definitely are killing conftown if you have the chance. You can't hope to guess and win at night. You need to win during the day which means eliminating conftown. Of course this, like anything, is not always true, but to think that scum wouldn't try to kill a conftown is insane.

[Mimikyu]

Am I crazy or was that an extra long night

VOTE: Mimikyu

It was long. Deadline for night was 5:00 PM last night my time and game didn't open up until like 10:00 AM today my time.

[Mimikyu]

Am I crazy or was that an extra long night

VOTE: Mimikyu

Let's pretend you don't think I am scum. Who is?

[Mimikyu]

It's hard for me to imagine Zach or Eagersnake as scum... I think they're really towning it up this game

So either I'm wrong on one of them and have basically given them a free pass yesterday

Or I was wrong on Yakko

But either way, I think you're one of the scum

Ok well you do actually need to accept you were wrong on one of those people unless you are scum, so who is it?

[Mimikyu]

It's hard for me to imagine Zach or Eagersnake as scum... I think they're really towning it up this game

So either I'm wrong on one of them and have basically given them a free pass yesterday

Or I was wrong on Yakko

But either way, I think you're one of the scum

Ok well you do actually need to accept you were wrong on one of those people unless you are scum, so who is it?

Who do you think it is?

Gun to my head I think the two remaining are Yakko and Dunnstral, although I don't think we can lynch Yakko today due to the tracker results (even though it could just be scum-play). Zach is actually the only person I feel really strongly about being town. Eager is the person I've given a bit of a pass for a while but reading through I feel less good about.

UNVOTE:

It's hard for me to imagine Zach or Eagersnake as scum... I think they're really towning it up this game

So either I'm wrong on one of them and have basically given them a free pass yesterday

Or I was wrong on Yakko

But either way, I think you're one of the scum

Ok well you do actually need to accept you were wrong on one of those people unless you are scum, so who is it?

I don't know. I'm not willing to lynch them over you.

I didn't ask if you were. I'm just interested to hear what else you have to say.

[Mimikyu]

Alright let me ask you all a question

Do you think the lynch on aristophanes was good for mafia yesterday?

Why would it not be good for mafia?

[Mimikyu]

Would mafia push it from the start, or join at the end?

FWIW I did neither of these things.

[Mimikyu]

You didn't join at the end?

I wouldn't say a willingness to avoid a NL is the same as joining a wagon, especially considering my willingness to do so in prior days, but I suppose that's up to interpretation.

[Mimikyu]

Yakko or mimikyu.. hmm..

First of all: Why aren't you considering Zach or Me?

Second, shouldn't that be Yakko AND mimikyu? You only think one of them is scum, but don't seem to be considering Zach or Me. Maybe because you're scum yourself?

I do actually like where you're going with this, and it's not just because you unvoted me.

[Mimikyu]

Yakko or mimikyu.. hmm..

First of all: Why aren't you considering Zach or Me?

Second, shouldn't that be Yakko AND mimikyu? You only think one of them is scum, but don't seem to be considering Zach or Me. Maybe because you're scum yourself?

I do actually like where you're going with this, and it's not just because you unvoted me.

Bullshit.

VOTE: Mimikyu

Hmm I think the term for this is OMGUS.

[Mimikyu]

Barring No Kill gambits, the Mafia is likely one of {Zach, Mimi, Dunn}. For now, I prefer the Mimikyu lynch. We should focus on Mafia first today.

Sure, but let's not lynch a townie because we're set on finding a mafia. Going after mafia/wolf gives us 2/5 from your perspective. Going after mafia gives us 1/3 from your perspective.

[Mimikyu]

Nope that's what scum would call it though

VOTE: eagerSnake

[Mimikyu]

I think if you look through eager's ISO, you'll see a lot of effort with the VCA, weighting people based on wagons, but very little actual scum-hunting.

[Mimikyu]

You sure changed your mind off of me and yakko fast

I changed my mind off of you half-way through my post where I said you and Yakko, and I think you'll see that if you read it. Also given Yakko's recent clear, it'd be pretty hard for me to push him today. Still think he is scum. Eager seems much more likely than you thought now after your comments and my read-through of him.

[Mimikyu]

it'd be pretty hard for me to push him today. Still think he is scum. Eager seems much more likely than you thought now after your comments and my read-through of him.

"I'm not going to push his lynch if it's hard and I might get flak for it, even though I think he's scum. Eager seems like an easier target to mislynch since you scumread him plus I won't be the person pushing the wagon, you will be"

You're not helping your case here with this gross misrep. Clearly the idea is not pushing it because the town would be too defensive and not a good use of my time, not that I'm afraid of getting flak...

[Mimikyu]

I am willing to tentatively clear Eager and Yakko for now.

Why is Eager clear?

yakko is clear from being mafia I believe

Because BTD tracked Blackstar/Eager N1.

[Mimikyu]

I am willing to tentatively clear Eager and Yakko for now. This leaves Mimikyu, Zach, and Dunnstral. We should lynch Mimikyu today. (We should try to find Mafia specifically if at all possible as my death is certain tonight. If we lynch Mafia I am still confTown so the Guardian, if there is one, should be on me.)

Tell me why it's better to lynch from a pool of 3 for mafia than a pool of 5 for mafia/wolf.

[Mimikyu]

PoEing a pool of 5 is easier though.

Correct, and quite simply it gives us only a 60% chance of hitting town as opposed to 67%. No reason to reduce the lynchpool based on your half-green checks. It's beneficial once we have the mafia flip (although even then not a true green check), but not until then,

[Mimikyu]

How is lynching within those 3 a 67% chance of hitting Town? If we don't lynch Mafia while trying to, we may lynch the Werewolf ( who may be one of the three). The chance of hitting Town is only 47%. Remember that Mafia is probably in those three but the wolf may also be.

Yeah scratch that part of my comment and focus on the other part.

[Mimikyu]

It's not beneficial after the Mafia flip. Remember that I have no way of seeing a wolf.

Eager/Yakko are not full confTown. I myself am just tentatively clearing them for now as they are, from my perspective, less likely to be Mafia. We can lynch them later.

I am pretty much guaranteed to die unless Mafia is lynched. If Mafia is lynched, we will most likely have a confTown in MyLo (assuming the Guardian, if one exists, protects me).

Sorry my brain isn't working when I type BTD. I was intending to say that it's beneficial after a wolf flip.

Because BTD tracked Blackstar/Eager N1.

There were two mafia n1

What if umlaut made the kill

Yes, this is possible as well, which give us even less reason to really consider the tracking results much at this point.

[Mimikyu]

Because he latched onto eager when it became an option

He's not voting yakko.

I'm not voting Yakko because it's clear the work that would need to be put in to try and overcoming the current sentiment toward a Yakko lynch. Work that requires time I don't have.

[Mimikyu]

So you're not voting Yakko because I'm less effort to lynch, yet you're the only person voting me and Yakko is being voted by Zach

Nope. I'm voting you because you're scum. Thankfully we have two scum out there so I can let one pass today to get the other. I'm hoping Zach and others will join me team.

I urge people to look at Eager's post history and tell me how it's actual scumhunting. What it looks like is someone trying to

look

like they're scumhunting.

[Mimikyu]

I could put my vote on Yakko but I feel like eager is more likely to go through if people actually decide to care and take a look at him.

[Mimikyu]

AtE much

That's not really what's happening here, although I hope that people take your bloodthirsty misreps/exaggerations for what they are. I honestly think people haven't looked. I said I believed you were scum and people should look and most have just been silent on it.

[Mimikyu]

That Ümläüt back and forth at the very beginning did look a lot like a busfight.

lol oh wait! I didn't even realize people were trying to paint me as scumpartners with Umalut. If you want to paint me as a wolf, fine, but to try to look at my interactions and believe them to be busing is frankly idiotic. If there are truly those looking at my comments (which were very decisive and damning of Umalut) and finding a partner connection between Umlaut and me, then I don't know what to tell you.

[Mimikyu]

Checking out for a day or so. Not much to do if people have something in their heads. Just hope the town here can take a better look.

FYI I'm VT, so if someone feels the need to hammer me while I'm gone, so be it. This town was probably screwed anyway with how inactive everyone was.

[Mimikyu]

Busy day so prodge for now.

[Mimikyu]

Dunnstral why is eager not scum? Why am I more scum than eager?

[Mimikyu]

My goal was to avoid engaging Dunnstral directly for as long as possible

Well eager isn't dying without doing so, because BTD is clearly locked in because of his personal result bias (which I don't totally fault him for).

[Mimikyu]

Have to go V/LA for the next couple days so likely won't be back before deadline.

All I ask is that people take another look at eager because I think that's all I can really do at this point. And think about the reasons for why you have actually voted me, and if it makes any sense at all of me to be a partner of Umalut (it doesn't).