Open 669 - Nightless Vengeful Mayhem [Game Over]
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Superhans Mafia Scum
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Superhans Mafia Scum
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Funny you should mention that... Sorry I haven't posted beyond 'hello everybody', I'm going to try and catch up, but it is difficult rn as I'm busy with wIn post 126, Revan wrote:This is going to be a hard time for lurkers, all you pro-activity guys and all.
I've almost established a framework for this game. These interactions are really, really SOUR.
Exams.
I'll comment a full read list tonight.-
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Superhans Mafia Scum
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Is this referring to Lucca? Which player is playing like this?In post 115, doomfeathers wrote:In post 108, wgeurts wrote:Doom, mind linking the wiki article?Umbrage's Guide on How to Win Scum Games wrote:Be as distracting as possible. While people will complain if you make too many wall posts, almost nobody complains if you take up several pages with a silly one-on-one argument that nobody else cares about. This can be done with a buddy or your primary suspect. Use confusing pronouns whenever possible to increase uncertainty, and never let a single point drop. Argue your stance back and forth, getting more obscure each time. If you make reference to an earlier post, state the number but do not give a link. Nobody will admit that they can't follow the argument, they will find it difficult to concentrate both on reading you and pushing their own agenda, and best of all, they can't call you out on anything because you're just a loyal townie doing his best to catch scum.-
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Superhans Mafia Scum
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How is Magna's level of analysis different to your analysis?In post 92, lucca261 wrote:
Meh. Don't like this. You have a point about scum trying to posts that on the surface look Pro-Town but have no helpful content.In post 27, MagnaofIllusion wrote: ...VOTE: Doomfeathers
On a page 2 basis my vote was going to go to either wg or Doom.
Doom got my vote for 14. It’s a suspect post coming on the heels of 9. They are trying to sell two different points of view in too short a time period.
9 says “I am on the ball and am paying attention to the rules” specifically be related to votes being symbolic at that point.
14 on the other hand is peddling both “I’m a newb and don’t get the mechanics” and “I’m not Mafia guys”, the second of which Ultimate picked up on. I’ve seen newer players drop the “I don’t understand the set-up so I’m Town” tell before in other Open set-ups like Jungle Republic so I probably would have voted on that basis alone for early game.
But Doom has enough games on site to understand how the Mafia are going to get the kills they need – mislynches. Basis Mafia101. So the dueling subtext shown of his posts strike me as someone uncomfortable with the early game and looking for footing to get comfortable. The "This is OMGUS" joke is another element I think shows him working to get footing.
Wg would have gotten my vote for 21 but Doom was a stronger vote for this early.
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Actually Scum wins when they are able to earn Town reads in Nightless games since there is no pressure (or in this case significantly lower pressure due to the 2 Daykills) to have to justify why they are so Town read and still alive. With posts like this which on the surface look Pro-Town but mainly empty of actual helpful content.In post 23, wgeurts wrote:I've played nightless before, scum wins only if the town becomes apathetic. Don't spam but don't disappear or lurk either.
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I feel like this post is just like this:
It's just you overly analysing things to try and look town, look that you are scumhunting. You can find scum that early. But posting this big explanations of why this is scum and why this is town so early makes me think you are just trying to look like the strong analytic town member, instead of being it.
[...].
@Revan why are you townreading Lucca?-
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Superhans Mafia Scum
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Sesq's 15, this was unnecessary, no?
I don't like your playstyle and feel that it is potentially scum motivated (may just be lazy town though). I get the sense from
that you are only making the readsIn post 130, Sesq wrote:Wow, I want to play Doom for an hour, get something quick to eat, chat with friends, and now I have the largest wagon on me for doing the same shit as at least 2 other (FC and Revan, perhaps others I forgot or more in the future). Also, the one post that people seem to think is scummy (the one where I re-voted on Doom) was because he had those "lol im beginner" post, and thinking i was trying to wagon despite it being within the first 3 votes out of 7 required for lynch. Also, I was re-voting from what was technically pre-game, which I was unaware of. In fact, if we wish to talk about wagons, how about Hawk or Mozamis (of whom has contributed very little, may I add.) This is fucking imbecilic. Anyway, here's your reads, by person:
Mozamis - The wagon hop onto me (with Hawk), them mutually townreading eachother, and overall him not contributing much makes it clear who my vote is going with.
Magna - Normal town responses, it looks like. Null-town.
Hawk - The aforementioned, looks like a possible scumteam with Mozamis. Other posts seem to be going down kind of random trails. It could possibly be a town player who's just kinda disconnected with the game.
wgeurts - Real meaty scumhunting. Strong townread. His vote for me over FC when we are literally on the same level on his reads I'm not taking as anything, it could just as well be FC as I.
Revan - One of those near-nothing posters. A bit more than I remembered, but it's all fluff.
Ultimate Despair - Hasn't done anything. I don't know.
lucca261 - Posts look fine enough, but I have this extremely unshakeable gut feeling this guy is scum, if not Mozamis or Hawk. I'm not voting him for it unless I see anything with my brain.
Superhans - Came in, quoted Donkey Ollie, and left. Absolutely nothing to tell.
Friend Computer - Has done much less than I and yet has no votes. This is idiocy.
doomfeathers - This one is interesting. There was some weird LAMIST stuff, they voted for me, I have no idea where to place them now. They are outside ranking.
havingfitz - "catching up". No reads yet, obviously.
So with all that I'm indeed going VOTE: Mozamis.becauseyou're the biggest wagon, not because you're town motivated. Talking about transparency (@Raven) I would say Sesq is one of the least transparent players right now. These reads aren't exactly easy to follow. You say Magna is producing 'normal (it looks like) town responses' therefore is town.
Your read on Hawk is unbelievably audacious especially considering you're linking her with a possible scum partner!-
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Superhans Mafia Scum
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VOTE: Revan
Maybe a lil cheeky of me being a lurker until now accusing your of not really contributing enough, but...
i'll unvote when you explain your read lists:-
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Superhans Mafia Scum
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Superhans Mafia Scum
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Ur online too...In post 177, doomfeathers wrote:Somebody dies between Superhans' posts, showing that he was online at the time. He doesn't react at all. Does this look suspicious to anyone else?-
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Superhans Mafia Scum
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Readlist:
Weak Town Reading Doomfeathers.
I think the wagon on Doom was very surprising, people mistook playstyle with scum play. I don't think that his game mechanic question was scumplay, if anything it is a promotion of clarity. I agree with Wguerts point that his voting is kinda jumpy, but I play like that myself, so I don't think it is necessarily to over-read. His vote on me was unreasonable (not biased at all :p) but I liked that he unvoted once he had reevaluated the situation rather than pushed on unreasonable logic.
And I learnt a new technique!In post 107, doomfeathers wrote:
This is either town-indicative or LAMIST, and I'm not sure which.In post 100, mozamis wrote:NOTE TO SELF: later in game when i get paranoid and suspect evryone else, REFER TO POST 98.
H O W E V E R
I really really don't like this post as you're excluding most of Hawks interactions. Have you considered thatIn post 193, doomfeathers wrote:Here are other player's interactions with Hawk, in approximately chronological order. Lucca has been excluded because he couldn't have made the kill.
Wgeurts: A few disagreements, a vote, a null-scum read, and then a townread.
Mozamis: Three townreads.
Sesq: Scumreads, associations with mozamis, null-scum read.
Ultimate Despair: Townread.
Friend Computer: Townlean read.
Havingfitz: Townread.
Superhans: Criticism of Sesq's scumread of Hawk.
Which of these is most likely to have been affected by the scum who later killed him?
1) Your 'who was online' is a sketchy af way of figuring out who made the kill as there is an unknowable amount of delay between the making the NK and the time it takes mod to make it.
2) Scum work as a team and have daytalk so I don't understand why the kill wasn't made on behalf of another player.-
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Superhans Mafia Scum
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Superhans Mafia Scum
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Can you also expand upon your scum read on Doom?In post 225, Revan wrote:I'm townreading wguerts because he is driving the game, and I can hardly find any slipups in his play. This would be very hard to accomplish as scum.
Lucca seems like a nice fellow, and his game-solving looks genuine. So I am townreading him too!
I will try and find scum now!-
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Superhans Mafia Scum
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You're making lots of points, but they're not easy at all to actually understand.In post 300, havingfitz wrote:Catching up continued from page 4.
Not sure I like lucca's analysis of MOI's first post. Also....less experienced players can be scum too.
Like Hawk's post 103. His observation on Doom.
WRT Doom's 107...I do not see mozamis post 100 as being LAMIST or town indicative. How do you?
Lucca....is your Revan vote just to pressure for more content or do you also have reasons to suspect? Seems like I recall you questioning a few things on Revan earlier in my catchup.
Don't care for Sesq's post 132. A lot of differing opinions from mine.
@FC...why would you consider FOSing someone whose scum hunting seems town to you? (post 133)
@Doom...how does the FC line above cause you to unvote him?
@ Sesq wrt post 161. Are you saying I am misrepping you?
Near end of page seven. Feeling town vibe from Doom. Not so from Sesq.
...and Hawk is dead. WTF? smh
Doom giving me 2nd thoughts on the town read. Trying to find scum outside of gameplay but rather via some perceived out of game (i.e. were people online when kill was announced) is a bad idea. And bad = bad.
I like UD's post 243. Town reading the hydra.
@Revan wrt post 284....almost. Holiday = weekend = RL>Mafia.
I've read up through post 299. I want to look a few more things over before I give my reads and put down my vote. I should be able to get to that early tomorrow. Apologies for the stream of consciousness catch up...the game starting right at the start of a busy 4 day weekend for me did not help. I'll engage more after today.
Your reaction to Hawks death is also particularily obnoxious, "...and Hawk is dead. WTF? smh" Really? I would rather you not make this comment at all, rather than make it, as it is just making your work more verbose and annoying to read. Someon already mentioned this, but you need to put links in your posts.-
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Superhans Mafia Scum
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Or another way you could look at this, Sesq is town who is scum reading him because hes trying to divert the scum from anaysising the DK. I do however, agree with your principal that focussing too heavily on the DK could be unfruitful, depending on whether the DK was deliberate WIFOM brainfuckeroo or an attempt to further inciminate those on the wagon or an attempt to throw the wagon off of Sesq and onto FC (I don't think this is alikely explanation btw, because it seems like quite a big gambit to take so early in the day).In post 288, mozamis wrote:
Pretty sure this is bollocks. Revan was pretty clear that he didnt think any OF US should analyze the day kill. And he defintely wasn't going to partake.In post 269, Sesq wrote:The contradiction was Revan saying "We should look for DK stuff, but I'm not doing it." Mozamis backing Revan up looks like scum play now I think about it. 241 did look town, or at least unplanned.
I think you are panicing scum.
VOTE SESQ
p.s would rather a sesq lycnh as i actually think he is scum. As opposed to FC who i have no clear read on, but people who i think are town seem convinced of his scumminess.
Ideal from my point of view would be for everyone to transfer from FC wagon to sesq wagon.
I do agree with this:In post 234, mozamis wrote:
completely agree, lets press on!In post 209, Ultimate Despair wrote:Personally, I think that "we were on the right track so scum kinda panicked" makes more sense than "this was a well-thought out plan to magically get town distracted"
If Wgert is scum, his playstyle would appear to be play as hard town as possible, make incredibly high effort posts and try and promote the discussion of town conversations. It seems like a veyr labour intensive playstyle that would be infeasible in protecting his scum team. The posts Wguert are producing would be much harder to produce if he was playing as scum.In post 232, mozamis wrote:
god, dont get so pedantic. wgerts is so, so town. if you have ANY experience of this game at all, you know he is.In post 208, Ultimate Despair wrote:why did you think that 39 was in particular town? Do you think Magna's points are illegitimate or incorrect?-
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Superhans Mafia Scum
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I don't agree with this theory that the DK was a reaction to panic. I agree that there was definite intent behind the Hawk kill as the shots were valuable, but it is early D1, and it seems like an unbelievably audacious gambit that the death of Hawk would somehow throw the kill off of the FC wagon. Why would FC or Sesq try and kill Hawk so early in the day when they still have plenty of time to shift the pressure off of themselves without wasting a DK?In post 243, Ultimate Despair wrote:Actually I'll go even further. Generically, I would consider it fairly likely that one of the following is true
1) FC or Sesq was the scum dayvig and panicked
2) FC and Sesq were both scum and they both (or perhaps their whole team) collectively panicked
I think that Hawk was a pretty bizarre shot if this was some kind of well thought out, intentional scum strategy. I think that it's exceptionally strange to waste one of two valuable kill shots on a relative newbie who has made only 15 posts, at a time when day 1 was nowhere close to being over (scum get only two free kills, and it is highly likely that at some point during the game, at least one townie will emerge as someone that the scum REALLY want dead but can't easily get mislynched, and there is a pretty decent list of people here who could plausibly slip into that role eventually). The most logical explanation is, rather than this being a wise move, that this was a panicked and ill-thought out reaction to the game state.
Not sure whether that makes me want to wagon Sesq or FC, but I'm somewhat skeptical that I'd want to wagon elsewhere.
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Superhans Mafia Scum
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Scum technique to justify lack of intelligble reads by pretending to be a complete moron.In post 274, Revan wrote:Hawk can you explain your vote on Sesq more in-depth? Thanks.-
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Superhans Mafia Scum
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What makes Lucca a 'nice fellow'?In post 225, Revan wrote:I'm townreading wguerts because he is driving the game, and I can hardly find any slipups in his play. This would be very hard to accomplish as scum.
Lucca seems like a nice fellow, and his game-solving looks genuine. So I am townreading him too!
I will try and find scum now!
Does Wguert and UD's game-solving also appear genuine to you?-
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Superhans Mafia Scum
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Okay i know my last post was a bit pedantic, but please please please stop being so bait.In post 168, Revan wrote:What makes them garbage?-
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Superhans Mafia Scum
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2 posts. NOt all of my posts, also bear in mind i had only made like 4 posts at the time that you'd written this so saying 'all your posts are about me' is a way to distort my content.In post 221, lucca261 wrote:Friend 153
So this reads are pretty bad. Funny that you mention null-scum reading lurkers, as you are kinda lurking.
But I don't actually think Friend is scum, and I'm kinda concerned that scum is trying to wagon him, trying to exploit him for his playstyle. Don't like this.
Superhans 152
Waiting on that readslist.
Revan 156
Why are you town reading me? I feel like I know what are you doing, but I kinda feel like you are going to get lynched for it.
UD 154
I feel like, because of the hydra you might don't want to answer this, but is your read on Revan meta-based? I don't know how you get to this conclusion without meta.
Superhans 172
Do you scumread me? I don't like how all your posts are about me, and you are not voting or openly scumreading me. This is scummy.
Superhans 173[/b]
The Magna post you are referring to was on the start of page 2. My post was on page 4. There is definitely more things to deeply analyse on page 4 than page 2. This is scummy as well. Taking things out of context to try to put pressure me without even voting.
I'm asking questions about your playstyle because I don't like how you've been playing and I admit that reading back my questions were slightly lame (I struggled to know where to start as there was an intimidatingly large amount of content to work through) I thought that your interactions had appeared a little strange and was asking you to elaborat.In post 129, lucca261 wrote:
I was definitely sour. Reading, analysing and making those walls was taking a toll on my will to live.In post 126, Revan wrote:This is going to be a hard time for lurkers, all you pro-activity guys and all.
I've almost established a framework for this game. These interactions are really, really SOUR.
Depends on the setup and the situation. I would say a 5. Why do you ask?In post 128, Revan wrote:@Lucca how much do you value transparency in town on a scale from 1-10?
I personally rank it at a solid 7.These posts are LAMIST af.
You reach a weird conclusion on Hawk and don't explainwhyyou think it is random. Almost like you are dismissing any town attempt to genuinely read deeper into it.In post 198, lucca261 wrote:Honestly, too tired to post and analyse right now.
Will post by the morning.
By now, the Hawk kill seems random. There was not anything about his kill that would make anyone townier or scummier. I think that maybe we were going on the right track, and so, they killed Hawk to reset the lynches and try to put paranoia on us.-
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unsure about the Sesq wagon, I liked her response to my question, seems genuine. I think her indignation is a flavour rather than a defense mechanism. really don't have a clue about FC. Why would you vote the moderator if you know you're a major scum read?
@FamilyComputer, how much experience have you had playing as a town and how much experience have you had playing as scum?-
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Are you refering to his questioning of the mechanics of the game before D1 had started?In post 301, Sesq wrote:Yes, I was saying I was misrepping you, but after looking back it looked like I had misspoke. My intent was to vote doom for his LAMIST shit but it didn't come across as that.-
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I'm already voting Regan...In post 318, MagnaofIllusion wrote:After reflection of having read Superhans posts on this page and a quick re-ISO I'm moving him up to the second tier scum read I have (currently shared by Moz).
At first this page looks to be a good amount of content but at a deeper look there is little actual reads coming from his slot. The only thing close to an actual read is his sortaNullTown on Doomfeathers. Plenty of suggestions of scumminess (Revan for example) but no vote. Fence-sitting on both Friend and Sesq wagons. Looks to be similar play to my analysis of Revan's "FOS player, empty Mod Vote".
But there are some pretty strong relational Sesq ties there. If Superhans were scum and scum with Friend I'd expect he'd have jumped on the bus as he's very late to the pickup site. The way he is playing it he would get dinged pretty hard with a FC scum flip. Especially a Dayvig Friend flip. But he didn't do that. Instead he's leaving himself room to move there while fence-sitting on Sesq. And while doing that fence-sitting his narratives all tend to be "But Sesq could be Town who is ...."
VOTE: Sesq
I'm not Town reading FC but after seeing this and how Super is handling the game-state I'm happy to increase pressure on Sesq.-
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Trying to determine if he is a noobIn post 330, Revan wrote:
What type of question is this?In post 327, doomfeathers wrote:Friend Computer, could you explain your motivation for voting karnos?
FC's ISO is bare. I don't think voting him will change this.
This is the best place for my vote to be.
VOTE: Superhans-
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Superhans Mafia Scum
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In post 346, Sesq wrote:
If Doom genuinely didn't understand the game mechanics would you rather he didn't ask?In post 315, Superhans wrote:
Are you refering to his questioning of the mechanics of the game before D1 had started?In post 301, Sesq wrote:Yes, I was saying I was misrepping you, but after looking back it looked like I had misspoke. My intent was to vote doom for his LAMIST shit but it didn't come across as that.
Yes I am. I have not read past this post yet by the way, so yeah.-
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Superhans Mafia Scum
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Scum reading me is fine, but to make ridiculous leaps in logic to try and tie me with FC and Sesq is really shoddy play.In post 363, Superhans wrote:
I'm already voting Regan...In post 318, MagnaofIllusion wrote:After reflection of having read Superhans posts on this page and a quick re-ISO I'm moving him up to the second tier scum read I have (currently shared by Moz).
At first this page looks to be a good amount of content but at a deeper look there is little actual reads coming from his slot. The only thing close to an actual read is his sortaNullTown on Doomfeathers. Plenty of suggestions of scumminess (Revan for example) but no vote. Fence-sitting on both Friend and Sesq wagons. Looks to be similar play to my analysis of Revan's "FOS player, empty Mod Vote".
But there are some pretty strong relational Sesq ties there. If Superhans were scum and scum with Friend I'd expect he'd have jumped on the bus as he's very late to the pickup site. The way he is playing it he would get dinged pretty hard with a FC scum flip. Especially a Dayvig Friend flip. But he didn't do that. Instead he's leaving himself room to move there while fence-sitting on Sesq. And while doing that fence-sitting his narratives all tend to be "But Sesq could be Town who is ...."
VOTE: Sesq
I'm not Town reading FC but after seeing this and how Super is handling the game-state I'm happy to increase pressure on Sesq.-
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Superhans Mafia Scum
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Ah sorry, I made a mistake and I take back calling what you said shoddy, I didn't read what you had written properly.In post 372, MagnaofIllusion wrote:
When I posted that I had referenced the Mod’s last Vote-Count and see you not listed as voting. The most recent vote count refutes that point. Consider it an error on my part.In post 363, Superhans wrote:I'm already voting Regan...
If it was obviously ridiculous you’d have pointed out what specifically was ridiculous. Instead you just handwave it. And point of fact in that post I was seeing relational tells to Sesq not FC (in fact I had assessed your behavior as not likely with Friend as scum given how bad you would look). Thus the sentence “some pretty strong relational ties toIn post 368, Superhans wrote:Scum reading me is fine, but to make ridiculous leaps in logic to try and tie me with FC and Sesq is really shoddy play.Sesq”.
Was that misrepresentation accidental on your part? And why, if scum reading you is OK, do you immediately try to say me doing so is “shoddy play”?-
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Doomfeather is analysing the interactions of players who were online at the time with Hawk, and I was pointing out that this is not the way we should be looking at it. I think we're agreeing on this one, Hawks interaction could have been with anyone in the scum team.In post 380, havingfitz wrote:Mod...does the mozamis vote on Sesq in Post 288 not meet your voting criteria?
Sesq...your last two votes (on mozamis and Revan) have not counted because you did not put them on unique lines like you have already acknowledged being told by the mod. Why do you keep making votes that do not count?
Have you not noticed that your vote is still on FC? Do you still suspect FC?
Also...wrt Post 301...I think you messed up your reply to my question. It looks like you are saying you were misrepping me. FFS...can you pay attention to what you post? You say here that you intended to vote Doom for LAMIST. Your initial vote for Doom came immediately after his LAMIST post but you only mention that your vote on him is because he was shading you (I assume for the cat comment he made about you). Which seemed pretty RVS-ish. All you say when you make your vote on Doom official is that you are making your earlier vote official. No mention of LAMIST. Even when MOI asks you about it. You only mention LAMIST slightly in your Post 130 and no mention of it being why you are voting Doom...until you accuse me of misrepping you on it.
@MOI...thank you for the [302=post]posting tutorial[::post//}. I was just a bit more focused on getting caught up than making things pretty. It's not the norm for me.
@Superhans....what do you mean with the scum works as a team comment when you say you do not understand why the kill wasn't made on behalf of another player? Whether the kill was made on behalf of the day vigger or one of the goons makes no difference. The fact is Hawk was killed. If there is a way of determining who might have been threatened by Hawk's existence that could point to someone...ANYONE...on the scum team.
@Superhans....if you don't understand my posts ask a question. My catch up was me commenting on things I saw as I saw them. The Hawk kill came as a surprise to me when I saw it. Not sure how my reaction is obnoxious. Also...do you consider obnoxious scummy? And I could care less if you find me verbose or annoying to read. Do you find those traits scummy or are you just doing what you accuse me of?
@Superhans....you do not think the Hawk DK was a reaction to panic but you do think the DK had definite intent. Are you saying those things are mutually exclusive?
@Doom....I disagree. How does scum help promote mislynches if they do not voice suspicions on the mislynch target? Scum absolutely need to suspect others. WRT FC...I guess you commented but that was some f'd up content to be giving him credit for.
As for saying I have faulty reasoning wrt your DK online hunting techniques...what do you consider faulty about what I said? And how is "poor reasoning" not scummy? If mafia were able to make sound logically reasoned cases they would be extremely hard to find. But having to make shit up all the time produces plenty of instances of poor reasoning by scum. So you saying it isn't is just wrong. Also...to nitpick a bit...I do not "claim" you are using "poor reasoning." Even though I do think that is the case. If you want to say you think I am inferring something that would be fine but don't attribute comments to me that I did not in fact make. Thanks.
@Revan....I've made two catch up posts where I am making observations. Other than stating a few players I think are town...what fence sitting do you see me doing? Also...consider me caught up. Pressure away. And could you please explain why you have me in your two out of three scum pool? Make that two of four....or is it three of four????
@Doom...."unless we can hit the shooter let's lynch Sesq today." So Sesq is for sure not the shooter? Gaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh
@Doom....And once more...how has it been determined that Sesq is not the killer? If I missed something in my catch up that shows sound rationale for Sesq being excluded from dayvig status could you (or anyone) please link me to it?
Here's where I am seeing people att:
Town leaning - Magna, UD,
Slightly less town leaning - wgeurts, lucca
Need to look over more - Superhans
Suspect a little - Doom and ....................... mozamis
Suspect a lot - Sesq, FC, Revan
VOTE: Friendly Computer
Revan would be my next choice. Sesq gets a bit of a bye today from me for at least being somewhat active.
P.edit...I see others have since commented on the voting issues but I'll keep my comments despite it.
Instead of asking questions, you could just clarify it a bit more int he first place. I don't find your behaviour scummy and like the type of questions you're pushing on players such as me and Doom, as it suggest you are trying to further discussion / try and solve the game.
not sure about Hawks death, but I'm unsure what would have triggered the scum to assume she would be a threat to them, consdiering she had very little content. Most simple explanation would be Sesq, but because this is so simple, I think it very very unlikely to actually be the case. If Hawk was killed over her push on Sesq, it is likely that this actually means Sesq islesslikely to be scum? if that makes sense?
@Superhans....you do not think the Hawk DK was a reaction to panic but you do think the DK had definite intent. Are you saying those things are mutually exclusive?-
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If Sesq flips scum who would you suspect?In post 389, mozamis wrote:seems to be some confusion over my votes.
its very clear - i ahve only voted Sesq this game.
Once before the DK, and once after.
So I dont know why people are confused, but there it is.
And for once i may actually have caught scum!
If Sesq flips town who would you suspect?-
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How has Sesq given himself away? Maybe this is my fault for not really engaging with the game early on, but for the sake of simplicity give me a breakdown of your scum read on him.In post 293, mozamis wrote:I skimmed your case, sorry, being lazy
having gone back over it, my feeling is that you are probably on the right track.
E.g.:In post 273, MagnaofIllusion wrote:However there is scum motivation to appear like scum-hunting while not wanting to antagonize the person you effectively FOS.
is a good point. His "nullscum read" of Superhand seemed like someone trying to put down some sort of read without - as you say - making waves.
All in all, he does seem very blendy.
That's kinda my problem with your case though, and its not really your fault, because he is so blendy. And thus, there isnt THAT much of a case to go on ATM.
So while my gut is telling me he could be scum (his posts are remarkably content free), I'm more convinced of Sesq, simply because I feel he has actually given himself away.
And i wasn't aware who FC was vtoing for, which you may believe or not, as you wish. *alec guinness voice*-
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that was in response to Havingfitz.In post 393, doomfeathers wrote:
D'huh? Why are you asking yourself questions?In post 390, Superhans wrote:@Superhans....you do not think the Hawk DK was a reaction to panic but you do think the DK had definite intent. Are you saying those things are mutually exclusive?-
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1)In post 390, Superhans wrote:In post 380, havingfitz wrote:Mod...does the mozamis vote on Sesq in Post 288 not meet your voting criteria?
Sesq...your last two votes (on mozamis and Revan) have not counted because you did not put them on unique lines like you have already acknowledged being told by the mod. Why do you keep making votes that do not count?
Have you not noticed that your vote is still on FC? Do you still suspect FC?
Also...wrt Post 301...I think you messed up your reply to my question. It looks like you are saying you were misrepping me. FFS...can you pay attention to what you post? You say here that you intended to vote Doom for LAMIST. Your initial vote for Doom came immediately after his LAMIST post but you only mention that your vote on him is because he was shading you (I assume for the cat comment he made about you). Which seemed pretty RVS-ish. All you say when you make your vote on Doom official is that you are making your earlier vote official. No mention of LAMIST. Even when MOI asks you about it. You only mention LAMIST slightly in your Post 130 and no mention of it being why you are voting Doom...until you accuse me of misrepping you on it.
@MOI...thank you for the [302=post]posting tutorial[::post//}. I was just a bit more focused on getting caught up than making things pretty. It's not the norm for me.
1)
@Superhans....what do you mean with the scum works as a team comment when you say you do not understand why the kill wasn't made on behalf of another player? Whether the kill was made on behalf of the day vigger or one of the goons makes no difference. The fact is Hawk was killed. If there is a way of determining who might have been threatened by Hawk's existence that could point to someone...ANYONE...on the scum team.
2)
@Superhans....if you don't understand my posts ask a question. My catch up was me commenting on things I saw as I saw them. The Hawk kill came as a surprise to me when I saw it. Not sure how my reaction is obnoxious. Also...do you consider obnoxious scummy? And I could care less if you find me verbose or annoying to read. Do you find those traits scummy or are you just doing what you accuse me of?
3)
@Superhans....you do not think the Hawk DK was a reaction to panic but you do think the DK had definite intent. Are you saying those things are mutually exclusive?
@Doom....I disagree. How does scum help promote mislynches if they do not voice suspicions on the mislynch target? Scum absolutely need to suspect others. WRT FC...I guess you commented but that was some f'd up content to be giving him credit for.
As for saying I have faulty reasoning wrt your DK online hunting techniques...what do you consider faulty about what I said? And how is "poor reasoning" not scummy? If mafia were able to make sound logically reasoned cases they would be extremely hard to find. But having to make shit up all the time produces plenty of instances of poor reasoning by scum. So you saying it isn't is just wrong. Also...to nitpick a bit...I do not "claim" you are using "poor reasoning." Even though I do think that is the case. If you want to say you think I am inferring something that would be fine but don't attribute comments to me that I did not in fact make. Thanks.
@Revan....I've made two catch up posts where I am making observations. Other than stating a few players I think are town...what fence sitting do you see me doing? Also...consider me caught up. Pressure away. And could you please explain why you have me in your two out of three scum pool? Make that two of four....or is it three of four????
@Doom...."unless we can hit the shooter let's lynch Sesq today." So Sesq is for sure not the shooter? Gaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh
@Doom....And once more...how has it been determined that Sesq is not the killer? If I missed something in my catch up that shows sound rationale for Sesq being excluded from dayvig status could you (or anyone) please link me to it?
Here's where I am seeing people att:
Town leaning - Magna, UD,
Slightly less town leaning - wgeurts, lucca
Need to look over more - Superhans
Suspect a little - Doom and ....................... mozamis
Suspect a lot - Sesq, FC, Revan
VOTE: Friendly Computer
Revan would be my next choice. Sesq gets a bit of a bye today from me for at least being somewhat active.
P.edit...I see others have since commented on the voting issues but I'll keep my comments despite it.
Doomfeather is analysing the interactions of players who were online at the time with Hawk, and I was pointing out that this is not the way we should be looking at it. I think we're agreeing on this one, Hawks interaction could have been with anyone in the scum team.
2)
Instead of asking questions, you could just clarify it a bit more int he first place. I don't find your behaviour scummy and like the type of questions you're pushing on players such as me and Doom, as it suggest you are trying to further discussion / try and solve the game.
3)
not sure about Hawks death, but I'm unsure what would have triggered the scum to assume she would be a threat to them, consdiering she had very little content. Most simple explanation would be Sesq, but because this is so simple, I think it very very unlikely to actually be the case. If Hawk was killed over her push on Sesq, it is likely that this actually means Sesq islesslikely to be scum? if that makes sense?-
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Well I have absolutely no idea where you're getting 'Lucca is a nice fellow' from, so I thought perhaps you could actually explain what you mean.In post 399, Revan wrote:Super answer my question.-
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W A S T E M A N
I ask you two questions to understand where the fuck your reads from Lucca come from. You don't bother actually answering them, instead you grill me for asking them.. what?
You say that Lucca's reads are genuine, so I pick two other players whose reads are relatively genuine, and see how you value Lucca's reads relative to theirs.-
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Answer my questions.In post 403, Revan wrote:How would your game solving benefit from knowing how I judge people's reads?-
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@Doom and Magna,In post 368, Superhans wrote:
Scum reading me is fine, but to make ridiculous leaps in logic to try and tie me with FC and Sesq is really shoddy play.In post 363, Superhans wrote:
I'm already voting Regan...In post 318, MagnaofIllusion wrote:After reflection of having read Superhans posts on this page and a quick re-ISO I'm moving him up to the second tier scum read I have (currently shared by Moz).
At first this page looks to be a good amount of content but at a deeper look there is little actual reads coming from his slot. The only thing close to an actual read is his sortaNullTown on Doomfeathers. Plenty of suggestions of scumminess (Revan for example) but no vote. Fence-sitting on both Friend and Sesq wagons. Looks to be similar play to my analysis of Revan's "FOS player, empty Mod Vote".
But there are some pretty strong relational Sesq ties there. If Superhans were scum and scum with Friend I'd expect he'd have jumped on the bus as he's very late to the pickup site. The way he is playing it he would get dinged pretty hard with a FC scum flip. Especially a Dayvig Friend flip. But he didn't do that. Instead he's leaving himself room to move there while fence-sitting on Sesq. And while doing that fence-sitting his narratives all tend to be "But Sesq could be Town who is ...."
VOTE: Sesq
I'm not Town reading FC but after seeing this and how Super is handling the game-state I'm happy to increase pressure on Sesq.
I misinterpretted what Magna had written, thought that he was accusing me of being scum with FC and Sesq for fence sitting on their wagons.-
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if you plan to lynch sesq first, how will we know if fc is scum?In post 420, doomfeathers wrote:Good point. It's not necessarily a scumslip. I still think it's suspicious, though. But let's lynch Sesq first, especially if Friend Computer flips scum.
Out of FC and Sesq, I would want to lynch FC first, he is posting less, and his posts are kinda nonsense (e.g. voting mod etc). I like the train of thought in Sesq's posts and I think it would be hugely beneficial to keep her alive even if she is scum (if you get what i mean).-
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hmm seems like a bit of an overreaction to what I think is equally likely to be town play. I think you're suffering from tunnel vision Doomfeather, put Sesqs behaviour into perspective.In post 317, doomfeathers wrote:In post 294, Sesq wrote:Anyway, I'm totally aware I did stupid shit and I'm expecting to be lynched now.This is scum.
Town does not give up the fight like this. This is a gambit to try to keep from being lynched.
VOTE: Sesq-
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@Revan also answer this question.In post 352, Ultimate Despair wrote:
why is there at least one scum in this group, and why is hans in particular the most vote-worthy?In post 326, Revan wrote:There's at least 1 scum in {havingfitz, Sesq, Superhans}
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lynch Sesq first...In post 420, doomfeathers wrote:Good point. It's not necessarily a scumslip. I still think it's suspicious, though. But let's lynch Sesq first, especially if Friend Computer flips scum.-
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'another', when was the first time?In post 432, MagnaofIllusion wrote:
Lynching Sesq first if FC flips scum inherently means FC has already been lynched.In post 431, Superhans wrote:
lynch Sesq first...In post 420, doomfeathers wrote:Good point. It's not necessarily a scumslip. I still think it's suspicious, though. But let's lynch Sesq first, especially if Friend Computer flips scum.
Pretty straightforward logic. Especially in light of this whole back and forth starting with Doom thinking you were scum with FC and Sesq. His response to you is "Yeah, you being scum with them isn't certain. Let's lynch Sesq first after FC."
Context reading is key. Trying to decide if you are purposefully misreading in another (fruitless) attempt to derail the FC lynch.
Also can you stop relentlessly shitting on me; pressure is good, but accusing my poor play of being a scum strategy is kinda hurtful. Don't want to play a noob card, but im not an alt, and i really havent been playing for that long.-
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Compelling reason? maybe not, but i can think of a few possible, but not provable reasons:In post 437, MagnaofIllusion wrote:
Not unless you can give me a compelling reason why everything I've said on timing of the Daykill and my case for Sesq trying to derail the FC lynch indicates FC as the likely Daykill Mafia is wrong.In post 433, mozamis wrote:come on, lets lynch sesq. for once i am confident about a scum read. fc tomorrow.
also, FC has a whiff of "the - could - be -scum-but could-just be-lurker", as in, not as definite.
Kill wasn't panic reaction and was designed to incriminate FC? Maybe you're mafia if this is the case? I think your explanation is more likely, but i'll be thinking about this is FC flips town.-
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wtf has this got to do with me though?In post 439, MagnaofIllusion wrote:
The first time was Sesq going into "Woe is me I am getting lynched today" mode with zero to 1 votes when FC had 4 or 5 ...In post 436, Superhans wrote:'another', when was the first time?
Don't pretend that hasn't been made abundantly clear.-
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I scum read FC mid/late D1, and don't think that scum would necessarily have been on the wagon as pushing him, and Sesq, didn't really require that much effort. My prime D1 scum read was on Revan, but I also had scum reads on Lucca and FC.In post 443, MagnaofIllusion wrote:
Well let's see ...In post 441, Superhans wrote:Kill wasn't panic reaction and was designed to incriminate FC? Maybe you're mafia if this is the case? I think your explanation is more likely, but i'll be thinking about this is FC flips town.
If FC is Town being incriminated by that kill and being mislynched FC-Town gets a Vengekill to take out scum pushing his lynch. So just bringing up the possibility of it being a veteran frame game job means it is sub-optimal play for said veterans. Not to mention that Friend was already under fire for his play so the concept of someone killing Hawk to "frame" him is pretty obtuse given there really was no need for it. High risk low to non-existent reward IMO.
But at least it is a theory being presented from you.
Besides Revan who is scum Hans? Despite you saying "FC is a better lynch than Sesq" you've steadfastly not commited to FC as actual scum. I'd like enough scum reads from you to fill out the scum-team even if those reads are not team-reads.
I'll need to reread D1 to see if any of my reads have changed with knowledge that Sesq and FC are town.-
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Would TownDoomfeather or ScumDoomfeather be this confident in FC and Sesq, and also this completely wrong?In post 444, doomfeathers wrote:
First after FC, I meant.In post 423, Superhans wrote:
if you plan to lynch sesq first, how will we know if fc is scum?In post 420, doomfeathers wrote:Good point. It's not necessarily a scumslip. I still think it's suspicious, though. But let's lynch Sesq first, especially if Friend Computer flips scum.
Out of FC and Sesq, I would want to lynch FC first, he is posting less, and his posts are kinda nonsense (e.g. voting mod etc). I like the train of thought in Sesq's posts and I think it would be hugely beneficial to keep her alive even if she is scum (if you get what i mean).
Yeah, no. I don't care if it was made by the most townie-looking person in the game; THIS POST IS SCUM. And I have read the context to put it in perspective; it just got scummier.In post 425, Superhans wrote:
hmm seems like a bit of an overreaction to what I think is equally likely to be town play. I think you're suffering from tunnel vision Doomfeather, put Sesqs behaviour into perspective.In post 317, doomfeathers wrote:In post 294, Sesq wrote:Anyway, I'm totally aware I did stupid shit and I'm expecting to be lynched now.This is scum.
Town does not give up the fight like this. This is a gambit to try to keep from being lynched.
VOTE: Sesq
Sesq is scum, but we think FC might be the shooter. Care to lynch FC today and Sesq tomorrow?In post 435, mozamis wrote:
exactly. magna and co, shift your ARSES on to sesq wagon.In post 421, doomfeathers wrote:Sesq is scummier than Friend anyway.-
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Would it suck (as much) if Wguert is scum?
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Was this a response to HavingFitz (is Fitz okay?)In post 505, Revan wrote:My Superhans vote was because I'm not townreading him.
The Sesq flip does strengthen my read on him, because it narrows down my lynchpool.
I think Fitz wanted like actual reasons, not just your tunnel vision. You also didn't give any valid reasoning when you voted me D1.In post 499, havingfitz wrote:Mod...when you post your vote counts could you add a line for those not voting?I knew there was a player not on any EOD1 wagons but couldn't remember who (it was FC btw).
Sucks that FC was town. Glad he took out lynchbait Sesq though. But sucks that Sesq was town. (you said "butt sucks"..hehe...hehe -Beavis)
As for D2...I lean towards there not being a lot of scum support for the FC lynch. He was a weak lurky player who had good points made against him. The same with Sesq. So while it sucks they were both town...at least we got rid of some of the low hanging fruit. Point being though...I do not think scum would have had to put a lot of effort into support FC's lynch. I could see there 0-1 on the mislynch. I.e. 2-3 off the mislynch.
All this off the top of my head so I want to go back over D1 to see where I want my vote to go today.
And as usual...my weekend posting will be limited so it might be tomorrow or Monday before I get a chance to apply a closer look.
p.edit.
Revan...can you give some reasoning too for your Superhans vote? Do the two town flips effect your read on him at all?
Also...Superhans....would you mind if I just called you Hans?-
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This is
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ISO Revan and you'll want to swap your vote. Revans ISO is 100% fluff.In post 528, mozamis wrote:UNVOTE
Looking at his ISO,
Superhans look scummier than Fitz. I mean, Fitz could just be scum trying harder than Superhans.
But superhans ISO is eally weak. Not many reads and a lot of fluffy, theory bollocks.
VOTE SUPERHANS
Basically I am up for lynching revan or superhans.
I'm unsure about the last scum. Could be Fitz but his ISO is quite strong...-
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